The Mark of a True Leader

“However tough people face their fears and doubts head-on, and they overcome them so they can function at the highest level without that fear and doubt inhibiting their ability to perform at their best. Embracing fear and using it to push yourself to get better, takes courage”
Jay Bilas (Toughness: Developing True Strength On and Off the Court) 

Russ continues his conversation with Stone Eleazer and Coach Braumon Creighton to discuss how to teach and develop real leaders. Rather than setting goals, it is developing internal character than trains a true leader. It is developing the ability to demand the most of ourselves. Preparation and courage are fundamental characteristics if we are to become effective leaders, whether in sports, school, or the workforce.

Episode References:

• Jay Bilas - Toughness: Developing True Strength On and Off the Court
• Braumon Creighton - “Those that Stay Will be Champions”
• Rocky III
• Karate Kid

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Eh, not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. One, would I have a dream, but one thing this nation will, has the returns

Speaker 2: 0:26

this lead different. We're here with, um, Brahman Creighton and Stone Eliezer. And we've been talking really about, um, learning and developing the kind of mental, emotional, um, strengths, uh, to be able to succeed at whatever endeavor you are facing in life. And that being a leader is really about, um, discovering yourself, who you are, understanding your identity and developing the internal strength, the mental strength to be able to push through those, those valleys and climb those mountains to be able to be successful. And as you were talking and, and, and on, you know, on our break, but as we were talking and discussing, you made me think about how I, how I grew up. So my mom, um, I was in high school, was predominantly white and you know, Midwest and, and I had a grip from suburbia. Um, and, but my mother, she put us in those schools cause she really wanted to make sure we got real educated at one of the best schools in Michigan, but she was a teacher. She refused to teach there. So she went and taught in the inner city because she was like, these kids don't have and will never have unless they are equipped. Cause she grew up in Jim Crow, south Tennessee going to the river to get water to bring it to the house, all that kind of stuff. And um, she walked up, she sat down with me one day and she said, um, you don't have enough black friends. And of course I'm sitting there going, um, I didn't know that was one of my goals was to count count the number of friends. I had a various races. And she, and she, of course this was, this was back in the day, right? She goes, well let me help you understand. And so Camp Hall Park was deep, Inner City, grand rapids, Michigan. And my mom said this summer, you're not going to play with your school guys. You're going to play with the inner city team downtown where, where I come, where I teach and I've talked to one of my friends, Mr. Lewis, and he's going to take you on to his 16 above 10 I was 13 in eighth grade and you're going to be on it. And so she said, I'll drop you off and I'll pick you up later. And I was like, you're going to drop me off. Because to me now, living in the Berry Eagle Camp, Campo Park where I was at, where that's not really dangerous but to, to our area, that was dangerous. And so she dropped me off at Camp Park and I stood there and I didn't know where I was going, what I was going to do. I knew Mr. Lewis, that's all I knew. He came up, showed up and then the other players came and every last one of them was visibly tougher, emotionally stronger and better and I just, I didn't, I don't think I knew how to be depressed

Speaker 3: 3:00

at that age because in the Midwest, I'm not sure you're allowed to be depressed. You can be a lot of things that didn't come around yet. We'll discover it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you get depressed, you're really in trouble. So you better

Speaker 2: 3:11

played. And I remember we were running some drill and I bumped into a kid. He goes, don't you ever bump into me again? And I just kinda inside I just kind of freaked out and got really afraid. Um, and uh, and it went on the whole by, uh, a quarter of the summer. And then one time I was standing there and I was talking to a kid named Terry Roscoe. Terry Roscoe would go on to be all city and all whatever. Actually seven of the guys on that team will go on to be incredible. And I was just put on it and I would, I would actually as a freshman end up watching some of them play varsity while I was on a freshman team at games and they were killing people, you know, just killing us. Not me, but the team. That was the seniors, but my, my I, I bumped I Terry Rascal, Canton. He goes, so you're from Kentwood cause y was from, it was considered to be, you know, somewhat a fluent and that's all relative to the Midwest. You what you were saying earlier but the differences is not that big a difference but it seems like it is based on distance from point a to point B. He said this your for Kellyanne, he said, what's your last name anyway? And cause they, you know, they just knew it was for us. That's all they call me and I said, you will, they go, you will, you wouldn't be misses you a son and teary. I go, yeah, my mom's ms teaches the south middle. My Mom taught Floyd Mayweather. Well no way. And she seriously yeah and so and so my, my Terry Roscoe turns to all the kids goes get over here. The whole team walks over years. This is Mrs Ewells son and there's another kid named Roscoe something. He goes, Mrs you miss you. If you're in a class and you won't learn, she will make you learn. And from that point on I was in and would be in with them for three years. They played in the city of[inaudible], but it was the time of my life at 13 or 14 when I became tough prior to that. And they started teaching me to be tough like, and teaching me on it quite frankly, to be an African American. They started going, okay dude, you don't even know. You don't even know which side is up. And that was a transformative, you know how that conversation you have with your mother that we mentioned in our, in a previous episode, that was the conversation that changed my life. And so when you were talking about the different in the Midwest and in the, in the West and uh, and the difference in cultures and the way things are and that we love living out here and of course many years ago, I can't imagine that scene taking place today where parents would sit down and say, you're going to go to a hard place at Dane. You're not tough enough as a kid. That's when my mom was basically saying, you don't know your own culture, but I know your own people and you don't have the internal,

Speaker 3: 5:47

I dunno if everybody loves their kid as much as your mother obviously loved you to do that for you. That was a gift. Yeah. Well it really was a gift. So you were talking, I was like,

Speaker 2: 5:56

I, I, you know, I think about your dad. Think about your mom and think about what you're talking about. Anytime I did the lesson, I was like, that's the kind of stuff that's done for us by those as coach k said in our previous podcast that's done by those other people in our lives who help us along the way. And so what we were, I was trying to, uh, uh, uh, prompt a, a Brahmin and I want to get stone in on this too, that I think as a coach and as a teacher, which is funny cause they're the same thing, right? Um, it's a coach and a teacher, um, that you develop leaders and um, and stone's done, done some coaching work with you and its code. Some others and mentors, a lot of people now, a tremendous number of people. But when, when you look at someone and you're saying, OK, cause I'm thinking about leadership, I'm thinking about Silicon Valley. So for instance, I think some of the problems I worked in DC for a while too. I think some of the problems d c is having, uh, and again this is Russ with a brown Creighton in stone at liaison lead different. Um, some of the problems that a silicon valley is having with Washington is also cultural. And that even in d c d c is, is, is a little bit east coast with a southern charm. But as far as the intensity level, it's east coast and, and the seriousness level and the don't mess around with me level. It's a, it's a rough town and it looks good on TV, you know, but hand to hand combat is, it's like being in a fight. Um, but I look at leaders today and I look at leaders of yesterday and sometimes I think the thing that's missing is that not a lot of leaders have that internal strength. And we won't mention names so nobody gets upset. But it seems like there's some people out there who can get hit with criticism and they punched back. They dodge, they know it's a fight. There are others that get hit with criticism and they don't realize it's a fight. It's a battle. If you want to be president, if you want to be governor, if you want to be mayor, if you want to start a company, they say most companies fail within five years. You better have something inside of you besides an idea. Does that, does that seem appropriate? So I'm wondering if you were to look at leaders and say, if I was going to develop leaders in any area, how would you start as a coach? What would you, cause you talked about coaching Willie Eliezer and the other podcast and your kids, but I'm wondering if you get this person who's just like, I want to be great but I'm afraid or I'm anxious, where would you start?

Speaker 4: 8:21

Well, I think part of it is, is working for the sake of working. You know, I think hard work makes kids just so much better. Character-Wise and you know, I talked about that and the article that I wrote, I wrote this article about my middle child and his journey through wrestling. He's a very non competitive guy. Oh really? Where's the, where's the article? Um, I posted it on linkedin somewhere. Have to get that, we'll, we'll put the call of those who stay will be champions. Great article. We will put that on our podcast link so people can get to it. So I just think when you don't work hard as a kid, just doesn't make you. And I don't want to speak for everybody and I'm just speaking from my own personal experience and friends and family that I've watched and yeah, you just never gonna regret working hard boy. You know, and when we get out of the sake of racing for some gold, when we just work hard just to work hard, we climbed the mountain because it's there. Wow. It's right there. Let's time it, you know, uh, for my sons, people laugh at me when I say this. I want three Ninjas. That's what I want. I want three Ninjas. I got three sons. I want them to be all three Ninjas. I want him to kick butt in school. I want them to be the best people they can be. And it's a goal set out there for them. And you know, if it's not like a, we're not doing it for a title.

Speaker 2: 9:43

I think that's really interesting that you're not dating. I want to get started on this, that when you're talking to your sons, and again, you know, as ramen mentioned, he's not, he's not telling you what you gotta do. He's saying what he has learned or what he's experienced and when someone was to NCAA champions, I'm listening. You may not, I'm listening cause I'm, I didn't went to enca champions. I didn't win to high school champions. I didn't win to nothing.

Speaker 4: 10:05

There's so many people who've done so much more in the sport than I than I do. I almost get like borderline embarrassed when people talk about anything I've done because of pales in comparison to some of my heroes.

Speaker 2: 10:15

I've noticed that with great athletes. And I think part of the thing is when you, when you stop at high school, like when you're high school, when you're done, which was me, I have a better perspective sometimes than guys like you do on yourself because we realize how hard we worked in high school. But it didn't. It didn't. It did. We couldn't get there. And so you have the, I have this, this really intense respect for anybody who, who plays college, anything cause I just go, I couldn't do it. And, and, and then pro I'm like okay that, that's another one. So sometimes it's perspective. Your perspective is from the level you were at up. Mine's the level I'm at up. And so the reason I look at it that way, and I think you remember most people in the world in America for sure, never came close. And so we can learn a lot. That's why I want to hear from, I want to read Bill Walsh's book. I wanna read Jerry Rice's book. I want to hear what Michael Jordan has to say. I want to hear what Lebron has to say. Forget what you think of these guys. Coby. Brian, I, I he wasn't, I was never a huge fan of Coby Brian's, uh, in basketball. But he, he's doing some things right now with his life that I go, I've gotta pay attention to that. That's special. So I'm more trying to help the CR, the group understand the level of challenge it takes to go from being a freshman in high school than a sophomore in high school. Just to make the team puts you in a rare percentage to be a star on a team, puts you in even rare percentage. And then the jump from high school to pro that, that, that's a whole nother level. So I think that the things, you know, you probably undervalue because you accomplish them and it's done. You want to jump in there? I was going to tell you a little bit about that. The hard work. I think that one of the things that helped when I was coaching is to get the kids to buy into the team concept. You know, that their, their work ethic influenced the kids around them. Right. And one of the fun things that we didn't, couldn't do this very often, but at the end of practice, everybody's pretty tired at the end of practice. And I would said gather buddy in a circle and say, okay, we're going to do last time and do three sets of pushups. It's all, we're going four sets of push us. We've got four sets of pushups and we're gonna either do each sets going to be one or 40 and I'd pick four kids and they say they get to determine is it going to be one or is it going to be 40 and everybody's cheering because they think, oh we'll do one, one, one. I said, okay, so you know Charlie Jones here, you, you're going to tell us first, are we going to do one or we 44 our first one I said, but before Charlie tells us, Charlie's got to answer this question to himself. Is Charlie the kind of guy who would sell out your future to be popular in just one moment? Oh and then all the kids just start groaning and then she, cause Charlie got his eyes roll back. I said, well, Charlie, what's it going to be? That's 40 we'd do four. We would do 40 every time. Every time I can get them to think about their influence on the whole. Yeah, and not just themselves. They would pick the hardest route and I think that because they started thinking about their friends and making each other better. That's amazing. That's great. That was incredible. An exercise, so, so when you're talking about leadership and you're talking about that, and I love what you said about your signs, here's why I love that you weren't telling them they needed to win a gold medal or they went and needed to be at to win a championship. They needed to be somebody kind of person. And then when you're banking on, based on your experiences, when you become a kind of person that's going to result in you being the best you could be at whatever you can be. Absolutely. I think what that's important for kids out there for parents like me, I'm a parent and I've got a 16 year old and I'm dealing with what you're talking about now, like living out here in California, there's just not like I had to shovel my driveway of snow, I had to stand at the bus stop waiting for the bus to come take you to school cause you had buses and snow in the snow and in the rain and the bus was late and you, if you left cause you were cold, you would miss school. So you had to stand there. You do that enough and you're just like you, when you moved to plays like this, you're like fierce. You're like, hey, there's no, there's no obstacles. Might as good as the goal. There's a cloud like was good. Um, so, so that, that tells me that in some ways you believe it's about character first as opposed to, um, the internal character, the development of your character as opposed to goals. That if, if you're dealing with a kid, you want to make sure you're helping them get a reachable achievable thing, which is becoming some kind of person as opposed to giving them what may be unreachable. Like if I say I'm going to be a physicist and maybe I can't do it, the key is that I learned how to work hard.

Speaker 4: 14:57

Without a doubt. It's no different from any class. I teach them any practices really. The people that are associated with me, I want them to develop the ability to demand the most from themselves all the time. This is what I do. It's like me to pick up that piece of trash. It's like me to be on time. It's like me to work hard. The whole practice is like me to focus and listen to the teacher and be respectful and it's like me to do that and that's the type of people that I'm trying to build and the things I talked to my son about are more cautionary tales. Like you see what happens to people that don't work hard. You see what happens, don't you like? You see what the hell they, how they, how they act. You see what their habits are. You see what their future looks like. You know, this whole racketeering thing with all these parents cheating to get their kids into school and buying the ways the scam. I like. I like that story. I like this story because I like the story because I don't like it in, in terms of the people that were cheated from the opportunity, from those people. Sure. But I like it from the, from the standpoint that I could look at my boys and go, you're going to be all right. You're going to do it for real. You. You're not going to have to fake it. It's not going to have to. We're not going to have, I don't want fake anything. I don't want to fake grades. I don't want to fake success. I don't want fake skills. Either you have skills or you don't, and that's love because you're absolutely, absolutely. I'm going to hold them accountable.

Speaker 2: 16:18

We are, you know, it's funny about the scam and, and I've, I've got different variations on that. Part of me emotionally goes, there's so many major problems in the country that I'm not sure I want to watch a lot of TV news about rich people finding a way to get around the system. I mean, they, my opinion, they should just go, okay, find them a lot of money and send it to inner cities around the country or something or make them create scholarships for kids to go to school at college or something. Do something like that. But to me, the real history lesson, and you know, today, uh, this, the, the studies they've done show that students are studying history less than ever in college. The real history lesson is a, you want to talk about having opportunities taken away. Go back to the fifties and sixties go back to the forties when you had African Americans regularly kept out of the system. You had Jews regularly kept us as miss sons. We can lose perspective and go, okay, I know some kids lost an opportunity, but you know what? Most of those kids who didn't get into the school because of those actors, kids or whatever, they went to another school. And I think that we overrate one school over another. I think at the end of the day in education, I hate to say it to all those people that are stressed in education as an education and

Speaker 4: 17:27

more so funny I heard, you know, whenever the, you know, racism is real and I don't like to talk about it that much, but whenever I get to a, you know, Boohoo and myself about racism, I go, well, are they sticking dogs on me? Are they holding me down? You do need personal. Well, no, they're not doing that. So it's been worse and life on. That's it.

Speaker 2: 17:50

And uh, that's why history is so important. That's why it's so important because I think without history, you lose all perspective. Now, I don't want to get away from what you're teaching us cause it sounds to me like if you were looking at society culturally, you would say our greatest danger, Teddy Roosevelt gave a speech on this and the whatever, 18 hundreds, uh, the greatest day. He said one of the greatest, greatest threats to America is the level of soft living. And um, and that was an 18 hundreds. And he was very fearful that because we were becoming a wealthy nation and that people were gaining more leisure time, even though compared to today, they didn't have anything. They were gaining more leisure time, that we would descend down this thing where everybody wanted an easy way and he was about the robust life. That was his whole thing about you. He was sick and asthmatic as a kid, all about him. Oh, okay, great. Then you know, wrestler the boxer too. Yes. And His dad said, look, you've got a weak body. Your only hope is to strengthen this thing up. And he just went nuts working hard, maybe over did it later in life and in going to African, trying to do all kinds of safari things and reflect things and caught malaria. But, um, so, so definitely an interesting guy. Well, when you look, yes, I think, yeah, I mean he's in the top five for sure in my book, but when you look at leadership today and you say, and, and I think you're giving this advice and you say, okay, if you want to be an effective leader, I think you're saying, uh, the same way I raised my kids. You want to start, you want to start in, in and work your way out. You want to build character in and work your way out. Uh, and so it's hard to do if you don't have role models, which if you don't have good leadership, if you don't have good parenting, if you don't have, if people don't hold you accountable and people ledge, you know, even I struggle with my youngest, like he can, he manipulates me and, and I parenting one oh one I'm a little weaker with him and I'm not as, I'm a little lazier with him and[inaudible] on that, that young, when he gets a, he gets away with a lot that the older two don't. Yeah. So it's a consistency. Well, I'm going to run you through some, cause I, I'm going to run you through some concepts if you don't mind. And we're just going to do kind of a, I don't know, a, it's not a game, but it'll help our listeners. Cause if you're listening, if you listen to episode one and you're listening to this one, I know, I'm just excited talking to Brahman. Um, it's not just because he's a Midwesterner and not because just because of his, his sports history and, and his current sports life. Uh, it just to hear the stories of people who have, um, worked in their life to achieve things, uh, fought through the obstacles, the difficulties of life. Uh, had parenting that is, um, you know, in this world you would have to say as extraordinary, elevated parents had weaknesses. But it's just extraordinary when you have parents who actually mentor you and guide you in life. Cause a lot of kids don't have that, uh, that some kids have. Ca parents will pay for stuff that won't mentor and won't guide. Um, some kids have parents who can't pay for stuff, can't mentor or Guide, cause the poverty in life has dealt them a, a bad hand. So, so you're fortunate, but I love some of the things you've been talking about in these episodes. Emotional control, whipping anxiety, being able to beat anxiety on demand. Um, um, uh, be trying to be the ideal person you can be. You don't have to be better than someone else. You have to be the best you can be. And that, that's gotta be enough. And we can't be sad when we walk away and say, man, I wasn't as good as that kid. Uh, we have to walk away and say I was as good as I can be and that's good enough. And then cheer the other guy on and say, hey, I had a friend of mine, I got a promotion that he didn't get that he really wanted and he was going end that he was above me for a long time. And then it ended up, I ended up getting promoted past him. And, um, he and I were talking one day and he says, you know, I went and bought a poster the other day. I said, okay, cool. And, uh, we were just out of college and he said, uh, I want me to tell you about the poster. I said, feel free to tell him what the poster, he said it's supposed to have a bunch of guys racing. And there's one guy that, uh, is crossing the finish line right before the other guy and it says, if you can't finish first, make sure the guy ahead of you breaks the record. And, uh, I think when I listened to what you talked about today, that's what I think about. I think about you're trying to make guys who, if they can't finish first, make sure the guy had of him breaks the record. And I think that kind of that, that that is beyond mental toughness.

Speaker 4: 21:58

Alright, well that's been a process too. Um, and there's, you know, I'm always evolving. I'm always learning. I'm always trying to figure out a new way to, to teach and be more effective and also, um, care more about the athletes in my care, right. Um, and my students. Um, but there is the fierceness in the first place and the gold medal that is still a driving force. You know, I, you know, I want to stay title in high school. I was a senior undefeated state champion in Iowa, in Nebraska and him, he started in Alaska and then I, I was just another great wrestling state state. It's all right. That's all right. And I won two NCAA titles, but they were all identical. So I, you know, I look at it, you got eight chances, right? Four years in high school, four years in college, I was through three for eight, three frayed, right? Five Times I didn't win. And the three times that I did when they were all identical in terms of my mindset, where I started the season with, if I don't one first, it's a complete waste of time. Interesting. That was for me. Yes. And I don't put that type of pressure on my athletes, but I know personally I never won without that. And my brain like water runs downhill. The humans take the path of least resistance. And so if I put it in my brain that there was a chance I would lose. I always lost. So it had to be, I had to burn the bridges. I had to burn the ships. They had to win or perish. That's the only way my, my, my brain could figure out the puzzle. It sounds like you're getting my hand raised

Speaker 2: 23:34

when I hear your story. That happened from fourth to seventh grade at fourth to seventh grade journey. You figured out something about that, uh, suspending objective reality.

Speaker 4: 23:43

There's no, I didn't want to get embarrassed. I did. I didn't like wrestling that much. I didn't want my dad criticizing me cause I was too soft and he wasn't, he wasn't a Tinder enough. It's a very Midwest

Speaker 2: 23:55

stay right there. Boy You don't build wall says I know you have to move a Bill Walsh. You know Bella check's giving him the challenge and be in coaching. But I mean up till bill, Bill, Bill checked the best coach, greatest coach ever. Maybe still the greatest cause ever. He said, someone asked him, he said, well how in the world do you win so much? He goes, fear of losing. Cause I, I am petrified and I hate the feeling of it.

Speaker 4: 24:17

It is, it, it will motivate you like no other if you hate to lose. And I am definitely on the Michael Jordan tip, right? Hate losing more than I ever liked. Winning a winning is more of a relief. Losing is, is terrifying.

Speaker 2: 24:31

Um, so let me ask you this. So when you think about, and, and we, we, we, we, we have to develop a terminology for what you're talking about. Cause you're right. This is so far beyond mental toughness. This is, this is holistic, right? This is about life. This is about how do you manage your, your, the, the multiple components of your life, your physical, your mental, your emotional, even your spiritual. How do you, how do you bring all those to bear on the given task you have. But I'm gonna mention some words to you that I think you'll, you'll have a response to and you just give me clear your response preparation. I love it. Bob Knight. I'll give you a statement that I think you might, and you, you're familiar with Bob Knight cause you're a, you're a Midwest guy. I weren't heard Bob Knight say this is j Bill. As I once heard Bob Knight's say that everybody has a will to win, but that everybody has a little to prepare to win. Does that sound right? The thing is 1000% I think the, the, the true gift is the ability to

Speaker 4: 25:29

focus on what you want and work really hard and pay attention to details and just do it every day and be consistent about it. That's the real talent

Speaker 2: 25:39

that's helping me. Well in Bell J bill is one of the things he said in his book is he said, um, you know what, and I might have a note on it here. He said that, and I actually had known, I just remember it. He said, what I have learned in life, having played basketball, Duke, et Cetera, et Cetera, is I used to think toughness was me getting in there physically and pushing guys around and it wasn't it. And he prescribed exactly what you described today about toughness being something that happens from the inside out. But he said, I've learned that toughness is a skill and that that, that too many coaches, and he was talking about college basketball, too many coaches are not understanding that toughness is a skill. And it's one that when you say to a kid, be tough. He has no idea what you mentioned you're talking about, you have to teach it. And he kind of implies that some of the coaches coaching out there today don't know how to teach it because they don't know. It is so true. But like

Speaker 4: 26:34

I said earlier, that I think there's a lot of people out there that can teach wrestling well. And I stand by that. But I want, when I say a lot, it's really a lot. You know, there's a lot in the terms of there's a lot of people in the world, but there's not that many people that are really good teachers. I was talking to my class about this other day, but how many good lawyers are there? Great. How many good doctors are there, how many good dentists are there? So it's the percentage of society is not going to be at the upper range in every given skill. So there's not that many awesome teachers have basketball teachers of wrestling in a specific area. So like, yeah, I want to teach, I, I work hard to teach them how to wrestle, teach them how to think. And a lot of people are lazy and they gloss over or they just kind of tell them, I'll watch coaches coach and I'll watch the kid do something and then I'll watch the, the coach say something to the kid afterwards and I'm going, yeah, but you didn't address the problem. Yes. Like you coached all around the problem. Yes. And that's not why they're not winning in that position. You didn't really address. And I'm, and I'm trying to figure out, is it that you just don't know it or you're too lazy or they want to cut corners. So, um, when I as a, as a coach, I never really fear kids like that. Russell over there that I'm always looking at WHO's coaching them? Who's coaching that program? Who's running that program? Who's teaching that kid out of Russell and I respect the coaches and the, whoever their Sensei is, so to speak. Yes. As opposed to

Speaker 2: 28:06

the individual. You went full karate kid on me right there, man. You went full sporadic kid. You know I that love karate kid.[inaudible] lessons from karate kid. Oh my gosh. You, you, I'm telling you somebody just, if you just lost, just to put, there's two movies to put on t on, on the screen that are old time rocky three. Oh yeah. That's a good way to put that rock and karate kid. And I think[inaudible] got his Mojo back and rocky threats. Exactly right. He was facing the clever Lang and tiger. Oh. Oh, that, that thing. So, so, so, okay. I'm going to give you another one. Courage. Courage. Courage is going when you're scared, you go. Anyway. So

Speaker 4: 28:46

a soldier, I talked to my students about courage all the time. Like this is, hey, we're going to do a Ford Roll. Okay. I know some of you are scared. You're not going to get hurt. This is designed for that. Well, whatever, whatever. But you need a little courage right now. Think about people that actually have to really have courage and go out and fight. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that's some courage. Yes. So this is nothing kids.

Speaker 2: 29:08

So there's a quote that came out of the, the book I've been referring to toughness, developing true strength on and off the court by Jay Billis. And I think this matches what you were saying. He writes, however tough people face their fears and doubts heads on and they overcome them so they can function at the highest level without that fear and doubt inhibiting their ability to perform at their best, embracing fear and using it to push yourself to get better. It takes courage. And when I read that quote now, because I prepared it ahead of time, I realized this, what you said from the very beginning, that mental toughness is the capacity to whip anxiety and not just whipping sided whipping on demand. I remember times in my life, young, middle age and now, um, which I guess I'm still middle age so to speak, but the, I could put turn on toughness for a moment or a goal, but I couldn't pull it out on demand. And if I face something that I was uncomfortable with or, or s or had never worked that hard on, you know, one of my best experiences in life. So I was pretty spoiled kid. I was the youngest. So now we talked about you get tired when you're young. My parents, by the time I got to me, they were like, oh, here's a car. And they just, we want to take naps and rest. And I was the only boy, only boy. And, and so, um, I got to college and I decided to stay in Boston for a summer instead of go home, which would've been easier and more lucrative for me and all that. Um, and I waited till the last minute. And so because I did, you know, there's, there were hundreds, thousands of college students in Boston. I couldn't find one of the good jobs cause I didn't start early enough. So I ended up working at an ice cream store. I had never really worked at job. The jobs I'd worked where I worked for the recreation department at my school. And then when I got out of college, uh, graduate high school, uh, a friend of my mom's was the personnel director for one of the major companies and they had a campground they owned in northern Michigan. Huge cramp, Ghana. They bought a mobile home and they selected two students that were going to go to college to run the camp. And you got paid for doing that and you basically kept the boat street and the fishing equipment. Right. And Fun job. Yeah. Yeah. So here I am in Boston. I ended up working at Brigham's ice cream and I gotta be there at seven and I get up at four 30 and I don't have a car. So I had, I bought a bike and I'd ride my bike about 12 miles to get to work and back. I'd never done any of this before in my life. And I, and I remember, and then they got there and they said, you got to wear this uniform. And I was humiliated cause I'm like, I'm from the brilliant schools, I'm a brilliant person. And now I'm wearing this paper hat and with this brown little, you know, it wasn't a dye, she keep it, it almost always look like one and, and, and the manager says, okay, let me tell you who's going to, you know, train you for your job. And I'm night, I'm uh, I'm 18, I'm 18 and I'm a, um, I'm going into my sophomore year, some 18. And uh, he brings me into this kid and he's like a high school sophomore and he's going to be my boss base. And I was acutely got to me kidding me. I have been reduced to this. I had to work the ice cream and it was in the banking district of Boston. We're the wealthiest, some of the wealthiest we're working and where guys cream makes shakes and a watch. These guys come in, in these thousand dollar suits and they wanted to get their little, you know, shake and whatever and their ice cream cone or whatever. And they acted like you didn't exist. And it was one of them. We're toughening molding experiences of me cause it made me realize you're nothing special. No one here thinks you're anything special and you're being trained by this kid who, you know, he's, he's younger than you. He in your mind, my mind, in my arrogant mind, he's not going to do what you're going to do in life. How can this be? By the end of the time I worked the guy I appreciated the most appreciated the manager, I became really good friends with the kid who trained in me and um, and there was a construction worker who used to come in every day and he gave me my biggest tip of the day. All the banking guys wouldn't even give a tip or would just walk away. And he dropped back. This is the eighties or whatever. He dropped 50 or 75 cents in this cup. He said, here you go man. You know, and I remember walking away going, here's these elite, brilliant, really wealthy guys and here's this guy who's really working his tail off, making a lot less. He's given me the biggest tip. And here I am known for scooping ice cream. And for the first time in my life I sat down. I remember after this I went, that was the first job I ever had in my life where I had to work hard, not for an award, but just because I had to work hard and I didn't get paid that much. It changed my life to have that experience and when I listened to you talk, I think for leaders to become leaders, they have to be willing to put themselves or allow themselves to be put in a position where they get no credit, they get no glory, and they just learned, how did you say it? The joy of working hard to work hard, and it took me until I was 18 ever experienced. I don't know, a lot of people experienced before.

Speaker 1: 34:07

Okay.

Speaker 2: 34:10

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