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Lead Different

A Passion for Leadership

June 14, 2019 Triangle Media Season 2 Episode 4
A Passion for Leadership
Lead Different
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Lead Different
A Passion for Leadership
Jun 14, 2019 Season 2 Episode 4
Triangle Media
“Some men see things as they are, and ask why. I dream of things that never were, and ask why not.”
Robert Kennedy 


Much like artists, leaders are visionary. They see things that no one else sees, and break the mold of what is considered normal. Not bound by the shackles of conformity, leaders are original in their thinking and in what they produce, whether it is art, technology, athletics, etc. Silicon Valley is unique for many reasons, and arguably the most compelling reason is that it is full of original and innovative leaders. Russ Ewell sits down with Tom Schaffernoth, the CEO of Nearchus Inc, and Greg Bodzioch, the co-founder of E-Sports, to discuss the necessity to have passion in leadership.

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Show Notes Transcript
“Some men see things as they are, and ask why. I dream of things that never were, and ask why not.”
Robert Kennedy 


Much like artists, leaders are visionary. They see things that no one else sees, and break the mold of what is considered normal. Not bound by the shackles of conformity, leaders are original in their thinking and in what they produce, whether it is art, technology, athletics, etc. Silicon Valley is unique for many reasons, and arguably the most compelling reason is that it is full of original and innovative leaders. Russ Ewell sits down with Tom Schaffernoth, the CEO of Nearchus Inc, and Greg Bodzioch, the co-founder of E-Sports, to discuss the necessity to have passion in leadership.

Episode references

Speaker 1:

Eh, not what your country can do for you and what you can do for your country.[inaudible] I get on great. One word victory. I have a dream that one day this nation will, has the power to change the world.[inaudible]

Speaker 2:

UCLA soccer was than any good when you were there.

Speaker 3:

Excellent. In fact, my freshman year that won the national champ. Wow. That's awesome. Right. So you're a national champion team. I wasn't, I didn't play at UCLA. I went there. I had scholarship offers. Actually believe or not, Santa Clara University offered was gone. Joe, right. I was in Texas and I was looking at, I looked at Santa Clara, UCLA, Stanford. I looked at Pomona college down in[inaudible]. Yeah. And so I like how we were making offers for cell them. I didn't get into Stanford, although they wanted me for soccer. Santa Clara, I got in and got it all down. Gone. I'm getting off track, but no, I wanna I wanna hear what you have to say. Anyway, so I, uh, um, but I wanted, I really wanted to go to UCLA or Stanford. Sure. Since I didn't get you into Stanford and I got soccer offers to those schools as well as some schools in the east. I said, I'll just go to UCLA, I'll walk on, I'll make the team. So I go, go to UCLA, go into coach. Siggy Schmidt was the coach then[inaudible] out who went on to, you know, working at galaxy. He just passed away this past year. He went on to La La Galaxy, Nolan Beckon went and he was one of the guys that instrumental in getting back home to come to the United States. Cool. And so anyway, he was the coach at UCLA and they were arising program. So my freshman year I go into his office, I told him, you know, I told him to sort of my pedigree and why I chose not to go where I went and then I would really want it to, to play there. And he said, well, we already got a full squad. We've got all scholarship players. He said, but if you go get on a team, uh, one of our, one of the pro teams in the bay or in the air, not very, but in the area la area, um, will come look at you and then we can maybe get you in for next year. So I, that's why I started playing semi-pro in La and then I just loved it and I, I started and then I got so into school and everything that I just wanted to keep playing in that league and didn't go back and try out. But, but I played with a lot of guys from the UCLA team in the off season and a couple of guys who went to the national team. So it was, it was pretty awesome. And that, that actually opened up the opportunity. I would've gone to Spain and I played soccer at UCLA, probably wouldn't have made the choice to go to Spain and study and play there. So that was cool. Cool.

Speaker 2:

So, so today we're on lead different podcasts. I've got Greg Bods, Yak, and Tom Shapen off with me and we've just been talking a little bit about soccer. And, uh, the theme of the podcast today is a passion for leadership. Um, and, uh, we're gonna get into that and in many different ways, but since we were just talking about soccer, what does passion have to do with soccer? I, I, that's why I was listening. I was like that I went when I was young, I remember soccer was very meaningless in, in, in my part of the world, in the Midwest. Uh, we had no soccer team. We, uh, football was dominant because it seems like soccer was played around football season. I can't remember. Um, but it just wasn't, you know, part of it. In fact, I think we had a couple of guys, brothers moved from England and they were really good soccer players. They became football players. Yeah. Wow. Uh, at our school. Good ones too. One of them was good kicker and, uh, I think one of'em was up for it. Uh, and then Michigan was recruiting him. But, um, I, I was just wondering what, what, what passion has to do with it because it seems like a sport when you look at the World Cup that people are extraordinarily passionate about it and that passion has grown. Now my high school, uh, is I think a state champion contender almost all the time. So it goes from when I was there. It, we didn't even want to have conversation. But yeah, it just seems like it's the sport the world is most passionate about. So I'm assuming the players are, are pretty passionate and that they're passionate about soccer. Can you just say a few words?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's a big question, but it's definitely, well one. Um, I mean it's funny cause I'm obviously, I'm extremely passionate about soccer. Growing up I started first playing baseball in a little league and didn't like the fact that you stand around so much in baseball cause I'm aligned, I'm with you. And uh, and then tried some basketball and he did all the normal sports that kids grew up in America doing. And when I first played soccer, I just fell in love with that one. I love the fluidity of soccer, that there's not, there's not set plays and so, but it is a team sport so you have to kind of figure it out on the fly. And I love the, there are not set plays at all only on, on uh, free kicks. So seriously, I don't, I never knew that. Yeah, it's all, it's all based on dynamic movement. So in that way it's like the music, like jazz. Yeah. So it's, it's, and if you compare like basketball is a flowing game, but there are actual plays and movements that you know, that they have. Soccer is all fluid, dynamic movement, understanding, positioning and angles. And Yeah,

Speaker 2:

here's the interesting thing, right? That's basketball in the 19 pre 1960s, but 1960s, 1970s, 1980s. I think as you get into the 90s it moves away from so much structure. Right. I think you look at coaches like if you know your basketball history, Bob Knight, sure. N N N and Mike Shashefski would be a disciple of his to some extent.[inaudible] a lot of structure. I think one of the interesting things about Duke this year in March madness, they had those extraordinary for freshmen, less structure, right. Uh, but that, that, that lack of capacity to execute on structure may have, may have cost them their game. Uh, uh, but so I think what I'm guessing, I'm trying to say is basketballs move closer to soccer. I think in the last 30 years probably. Uh, because when you're watching the warriors, that's not set, those aren't set place. Those are concepts, right? So spacing. Yep. Making sure that you use pick and roll is not ab structure. It's a concept. Right. You know, and, and then you see, you see at South Korea, if you ever watch, he'll, he'll pass the ball, he'll run to a spot, maybe through a pig. They'll pass the ball back to him. They may try to double team him or get right on him. Then they'll move the ball away from them and all of a sudden, right. He gets it right back and then he shoots it. That's not, you don't script that out. That's feel, that's them. Right. Knowing responds to the defense. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And so it's a lot more dynamic and I think that's why they score more points, why it's more exciting and they've changed the rules. So without hand checking and all that, this isn't, it's interesting you said it about soccer being the reason I ask and, and, and again, we're talking about passion today and you may be sitting there saying, what does sports or soccer have to do with it? We'll, we'll make that point in just a moment. But, um, the reason I ask about it is, cause I remember when we first started working with east soccer, if you listen to our digital scribbler podcast, you'll hear more about that, um, and learn more about that. But you used to tell me that soccer was something guys played into their old age. Oh yeah. And to me that's what passion is really all about golf. Same Way. Right? Sure. I'm on time. You're a big golfer. Yeah, totally. Those are two sports along with, I think tennis that you can find people that are fairly, um, upward in age. Oh yeah. Still doggedly going after it. Whereas in basketball, it's the last, because I, you, and I don't know if it's because this is the heart and hardness and the body, the fact you've, you gotta be so vertical so quick. Yeah. But it doesn't, doesn't allow the time.

Speaker 3:

Tell me a little bit about it. Yeah, I mean, so I'll be 52 this year and I still play regularly. I still play weekly. Um, I play in some pickup games here around the bay area with guys. There's one guy named Carl who's 77 that now and then comes in out and plays seven and they go, the great thing about soccer is, and you probably can do this to some degree in basketball if you stay on the perimeter, but in soccer, as you get older, it is a contact sport when you play at a competitive level. But as you get older, you can play a touch game where it's all about skill of ball, movement and spacing, right. And you're not crashing into each other. Um, and you know, you're on grass. So the surface is good for somebody who's got old knees and old ankles. Yeah. Um, so you, I mean I, I play regularly with guys anywhere between forties up to seventies now and then, and typically you just guys who watch their, they watch their weight, they eat right and they, they keep at it. But to me, to me that's love of the game. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

That is, that is it for men as a cultural experience that I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling this culture that I hear this with guys with golf two times is that they love the walk, the walk, the group, what is it, the Greens or something like that.

Speaker 4:

Well, no, you just, it's the all, it's the open space. It's the fact that it's really, the game of golf was about you against the course. It's not necessarily you against sure you compete against guys, all that kind of stuff. But really it's you against the course how you handle it. And it's very, it's a very mental sport. You have to be thinking a lot. Yeah. It's not necessarily that it's physical. Granted you see the players today, they're much more, I'm in shape. They're much more, you know, they have discipline of training, this kind of stuff. You go back and look pictures of guys 34 years ago. Yeah. Okay. He's been drinking beer. Yeah. I mean so but it's just, but the game was the, you know the game of golf, you can play it well into your later years. In fact, there is a story of mine when I was younger, my dad actually, my dad was a professional baseball player. Right. And so he, he actually told me, cause I was, I was a freshman start in high school and varsity football basically. And he came to me, he says, dude he didn't say do but he said basically look man, if you keep playing this sport by the time you're 30 your body is going to be beat. Cause I was already getting injured all that cause I'd already dislocated my elbow and cry cause I was kind of a nut when I played. I just don't want after stuff. And that not totally surprising. But then he told me, he said, look, why don't you just play golf? Just focus on golf. You can play that. The rest of your life. Right. And so that I'm like, okay, cool. That's what my dentist told me to do. You know what I mean? And so I was like, that makes, that makes sense.

Speaker 2:

Well the, there, these are three of the sports we're talking about. These are three sports that people are very passionate about basketball. And I watch it, pay attention to it, study the game. I'll go out and shoot sometimes, but it's not my favorite form of, of getting a fit because of the wear and tear on my knees, which they had, they had enough. But you know, shooting, I was just taking my daughter out, showing her ball handling drills and all that. And it was amazing. Yeah. Was always trying to show her I go, man alive. I can't believe the muscle memory is just like I'm whipping around doing it. And I'm like, well if I did this, if I did this daily, I'd be back to my ball handling level that I was at. You know, you just started fighting. But it's the, it's the thing that awakens his passion inside of you. And really the title of, of this, uh, podcast is going to be passion, uh, leading with passion. And I think that's what you want to talk about today. And, uh, just before we get out of that sports part, I want you guys to give me who year one or two most passionate golfers, soccer players, basketball players. We're going to put one or two names out there for people. And if you're listening, remember, passion is something that can exist in any area of your life. You can have a passion for cooking. You can have a passion for cars, you can have a passion for fashion, for art. I mean painting, writing. Uh, you can have a passion for collecting stamps. FDR certainly did, uh, the former president during the depression where we're too, but go ahead. Gimme gimme your most passionate Golfer, the guy you look at and go, this guy just had a passion for the game. Maybe it's someone now, maybe it's on old.

Speaker 4:

Well, I mean, there's two guys that immediately come to mind. I mean, nowadays is, it's, um, I think it's still tiger woods. Oh really? Okay. My Gosh, yes. Okay. He's limited because his body, he's beat his body up in a sense because he's done all these extracurricular kinds of things, but he still has a great passion for the game. The mere fact that literally less than a little bit over a year ago, they literally did not know if he could still swing a club because of his back and all the injuries he's had. Right. And so, but now he trained, he worked through that and got all the, you know, the help that he could, but to be able to come through that, and a lot of people said, hey, he never went again. They were at that, at that point of it. But then Lo and behold, he wins the very last tour championship last year in September and stuff is the big thing. Yeah. The FedEx Cup and stuff. And so, but to go through that, to go from like, Hey, I don't even know if I can be able to swing a golf club to when I sit down. It's very painful to going out and competing and beating guys, younger guys that are literally 20 years younger than him. Right and beating them. That to me is passionate. Okay. Okay. He has that. Then the other, the other person I think of is, is Jack Nicholas. That guy was, he was unbelievable. Wow. That guy, he was, if he ever wanted to make a putt under pressure, there's, you know, people don't realize that when you play golf, it's one thing you go out with your buddies, you have fun. But when there's, when there's a tournament time and it's game time, that's a different time man. And so you'd be able to, for you to be able to handle that pressure and to be able to make that putt and to know and to know what to do and how to handle it. Yeah. But she Goff is in some sense when you're in the moment, you have to stay calm because the worst thing for a golf swing is to get tense. You know what I mean? You have to stay, you have to stay smooth, relaxed. You, y'all let your body flow often. But, uh, but Jack, when he was under pressure, I always remember the thing back, I think it was 86, 1986 when he won his last masters, he made the putt on 17, 17, 17 that he basically put himself in the lead at that time and he was just very calm, very cool, stay focused. All the pressure was on him and he made the putters probably about a 15 foot or something. Hey,

Speaker 2:

can you, I'll make sure that's on the podcast. Uh, uh, Nathan's doing our producing here. Can you make sure that's on the podcast? A description. See if it's the it, Tom thinks it's 86, that'd be great for people to go take a look at that. Here's why I think, why think this is important and they'll come to you Greg in a minute. Yep. Is that the tip? The typical approach to talking about leadership would be, okay, get into the leadership, give me the five steps, give me the 10 steps, give me whatever. But I think in order to have passion for leadership or to be a passionate leader, to lead with passion, you have to have passion first. Sure. And I think sometimes the best place to start is, do I have passion about anything? And there are people out there right now that I want to be a passionate leader. Where are you passionate by anything yet? I mean, you know, passionate about chocolate lemonade something cause that's your source. That's how you know, this is what it feels like until so, so until you get that passionate feeling about leading, you'll know I'm not there yet. I'm just doing it out of duty. I'm doing it because they get paid. But to get that same feeling that you described tiger with Jacqueline Nichols having would be extraordinary. And I, I remember Jack Nichols when I was, I think I was a young and I, I used to get sports illustrated, so I just remember him being on the cover a lot. Yeah. And I, and that's why I knew him and I used to always get him confused with, uh, Johnny Miller. Uh, now the, the Tom, what's golf? Uh, oh gosh, who's that called? Watson? Uh, no, no actually. Oh Man. I can't remember his, I can see him but I can't remember his name. He's like blazing blond and seemed the same. I get, I just can't remember his name. Oh really? Johnny's a little bit taller. Okay. Yeah. I used to, I used to get, I'm always confused, but Jack Nicholas was the guy. And what I remember most about Jack Nicholas's, he said Tiger will break my record, but we don't know what will happen. Because you go through life, you get married, you have kids, you get different things happen. And uh, of course you were alluding to navy seals. I think when you said all these extra things being out of your body, which I, I would love to see some of the old golfers come out of, of age and be young again. Cause sometimes I think, uh, that, that, that, that people over, based on what you said about putting, they overstate physical fitness, quote unquote, uh, cause it seems like it's a game that's a mental game of above all. But, okay, give me your, give me your soccer guys.

Speaker 3:

Well, it's funny, this is Tom is here and he's German. I picked a German player for a guy who was a, he was, he was such a great player when I was growing up in the nineties center midfielder for the German team play for Byron Munich Lo thyre. Mateus remember Mateo's done. I can't even say that name, but he was, he was a, the thing that was really the why would pick him as one of my most passionate players is, and you know, it probably links to what we were talking about about aging and just staying passionate about the game. No matter how old you are, he's probably one of the guys who played the longest at the national level because in soccer to stay on the national team, typically by the time you hit mid thirties you're done because the younger guys are so quick and so fit but loath are played until he was I think 42 and he was still starting on the national team and he played for Germany when they were at their peak in the 90s when they were always making it to the final four of the, of the World Cup. And um, I remember being in Germany tram when I lived in Spain. Yeah. I traveled around Europe. I remember going through um, Bavaria and I was in Munich and I got to see him play live via study and just watching him in his, at that time he was in his late thirties already and just watch it. The center midfielder runs, they say six to nine miles a game and he's moving the whole time. And just to see his, to see his leadership on the field, he was the general, you know, on the field. And so he would be one. And the other guy I would say for, you know, for those who are listening, who are, who are into, you know, goalkeepers, I would say Gigi Buffon from Italy is one of the most passionate, she's still playing Jeezy boof, one of the greatest keepers guys now, 40, 41 still starting and playing. And uh, um, but yeah, there's so many guys, but I just,

Speaker 2:

I thought those were, those are two, didn't Spain? I think it was Spain. The Spain when the World Cup maybe. No, I did.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. In fact they were, they were the first team to win two world cups back to back with a European cup

Speaker 2:

in the middle. There's a, they had a, there was an older guy on that team. I don't remember who he was, if I do a little older[inaudible] long hair. I remember that kind of down to his shoulders. That guy was cool. He seemed like he was one of those little guys who's really, you might be thinking of, um, you know, he's thinking of the back who played for Barcelona. Yes. Um, yes. Can't remember his name right now. No. Um, oh gosh.

Speaker 3:

They might just, yeah. Curly hair. Yeah. Gosh. Plays for Barcelona.[inaudible] thing. That's, Oh man, I, I see them.

Speaker 2:

It don't matter. But the thing is, it's just that I'm, I'm, I like soccer, but I don't love soccer. Yeah. Um, but even I can look at that and see it. It's like, you know, those are sports. That's my problem with soccer and with, with, uh, golf. And I think people have this with any sport they don't know no. From, from, from sort of childhood is if the people I want to see aren't on. Yeah. I have no interest. Yeah. Right. And I guess we are about basketball theories were, and if I went basketball, it's very difficult. Yeah. Those passionate people, I think without question, because to be married, which would be number one on the list, not because it was the best or the best champion or whatever, but his, his passion was maybe over the top and may of, you know, cost him emotionally. But he had this extraordinary love of the game to where he was innovating and doing things that weren't necessary, um, passes that he invented that, that no one has been able to match. Right. So I think that's one. And then I think Michael Jordan without question, I think Michael Jordan was in, uh, in another zone. Now, now I'd have to say Magic Johnson lands in that too, that just that passion for the sport. And I think those are three guys that don't understand other people. They, they can, they might magic try to, they can never coach because they can't talk to someone who doesn't have the same passion as them. They're like, I can't even communicate with you. Right. You know, Magic Johnson, when he was coaching the Lakers I think got upset. This is in the 90s, I think it w cause they were using beepers or whatever and they were getting messages on and he'd be going crazy during smartphone, but he couldn't conceive of a guy who when he was at basketball practice wasn't locked in all in. And I'm going to go forth. Larry Bird B. The other one again, these guys were just in another planet, but um, so, so, so, so I think when we were talking about passion leading with passion, one of the reasons I really wanted to zero in on this today is because we're all in silicon valley. We live here, we work here. A Thompson software engineering has worked for a number of companies as well as he's had his own company in the past and in the present. Um, which gives him a, a tremendous perspective as well as being well invested not only in the for profit but the nonprofit arena. And then Greg, uh, has worked, uh, most recently as director of e-sports, which the amazing thing about that is to get volunteers, kids involved, families involved. You have to motivate a new extreme way because nobody's getting paid. And, and I think there's, there's a, there's an infectious, contagious passion that you have to have for kids that are typical to pick up. Say, I want to play sports with kids who are special needs and for parents to be feeling comfortable about either bringing their typical kid or bringing their special needs kid when they're a little nervous about it. And so both of you I think are well-equipped in a lot of other areas to talk about passion. But just to start with leading with passion, one of the pitchers that we have up, uh, is John F. Kennedy. And, uh, I have a question for you guys. I know Tom, you're a bit of a historian r B history buff, but I've got a question. If you guys remember or know what John Kennedy said he would probably do if he hadn't gone into politics, probably would have done if his brother hadn't died. His older brother, who was the one that his dad, of course, dad, Joseph, Joseph dead. Joseph wanted John F. Kennedy. I mean, wanted Joe Kennedy be president and John F. Kennedy had no pressure on him. He had, he was going to be able to go off and do whatever. Uh, do you guys have any idea? Take a guess. Um, well, first of all, it, um, was to run a company kind of stuff, but nothing stands out. I don't, I don't know. I don't, he, he said he might be at, he would, he would probably have been a teacher or something. Oh, wow. Which makes all the sense in the world. He wrote a book, he wrote how many books did he write? He wrote one. Just one. Just one. Yeah. Yeah. And that's controversial. Did he write it or not? But that's a good, but that's critical. People. I mean, I think the guy was an extraordinary writer, but he was surrounded by extraordinary writers. And so I think there's this, you know, obviously you can hear him talk and you go, okay, the guy could write not a problem. Sure. Uh, I think going to Harvard didn't hurt, uh, for, for, for, for proof of concept, but, oh, I'm sorry. He wrote you right. I'm sorry. He wrote two books. He wrote the, uh, while while England slept, and then he wrote a profiles and courage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot about the wildland slept. That was his senior thesis that he turned into a book. Um, but Kennedy probably of all the modern presidents, if you go modern, meaning the ones that people alive today would remember having heard or seen in action. Um, I think there's probably people who would've seen Eisenhower who would reseeded Kennedy. But I don't think many of us could go back further. But if you push forward from Eisenhower to today, I think people would probably argue that he was the most passionate president yet without a no. And I think it's interesting that teacher, uh, you know, uh, he has a quote that I don't have today about artists and the important of art. Uh, and, and, and I think he was a, he was an English major minded guy as opposed to an engineering minded guy. Uh, not that he couldn't understand those concepts. And so today, a lot of what I want to put out there as I read in Argo article in preparation by no Zomi Morgan writer for these fours magazine, um, and it isn't necessarily the total context we're going to do, but she, she called her article the art of passionate leadership. And I think that describes, well what we can talk about today. And, and she, she says this, she says, uh, my definition of leadership is this, leaders are people who make things happen, mate. So, so they gotta make things happen. And when you look at that, the person I think of John F. Kennedy, his brother Robert Kennedy, he is the perfect illustration. And John is to have someone who approached leadership as an art. They're very passionate and emotional about it. He said this quote, this is one of his famous quotes they used to use when he campaigned for president. And of course he was assassinated after winning the California primary of the 60 a 60, 68 election. Uh, some men see things as they are and ask why I dream things that never were and ask why not? And to me when you're talking about passion and leadership, it begins with this, and I want to get you guys' thoughts on it, that artists are visionaries and therefore to have art of passionate leadership, you have to be a visionary. John F. Kennedy, a visionary, asked not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. And then Robert Kennedy seeing things that don't exist and trying to bring them to bear. So when you guys think about leadership, when you think about passion, and we're going to talk a lot about silicon valley, where I think there is a lot of vision and there is a lot of art, w w what? What comes to your mind as far as, can you see the connection between being visionary and having that, that vision that artists have and being able to bring that to leadership as opposed to not. I'll give you a quote from the article that'll help you and then you can guys can tell me what you think. When I see this is the the writer and his only Morgan. When I see people who really excel in their career or excel in life, I noticed that they have a strong passion for what they do. That passion makes a world of difference. And I think that that, that a lot of that passion is driven because people who have the heart of an artist or visionary, what are you thinking?

Speaker 4:

No, I think the first thing that came to my mind, I was just recently reading an article about um, Sergei Brin and Larry Page and stuff and how they get found, you know, the investor at Stanford, I was reading, um, one of the books for one of the initial investors for, for in Google basically. And they said that, um, the question was, you know, how much, how much you know, vision cause really at that time there were already like 15 or 16 different search engines out. Okay. Oh they were super passionate about their approach in terms of the way in which they're going to implement their algorithms to say it's going to change the world. They had the vision. And so the guy says, hey, how much market capitalization do you think we could, we could do? And the person, I think it was Larry actually responded and said, hey, I think we would actually do 10 it'd be 10 billion. And what are you talking about? 10 billion? And Larry Goes, no, 10 billion a year basically. Wow. In terms of revenue. Wow. That he believed that. And this is when they're literally in a garage in Palo Alto and he thinks he's going to make 10 billion a year. Wow. You know what I mean? He was just talking revenue. Wow. I forget market capitalization there was just, wow, we're going to make this amount of money every year. And because he's passionate about his algorithm, he's passionate about what he was doing, he saw the weakness of what was out there. I can create something better. That's awesome. You know? And so it's just, it's super inspiring.

Speaker 2:

And so, and so when you just listened to that, you just go, well, that's the difference between Alta Vista and Google, which is your, a lot of people listening going, what is Altavista? Exactly Tom's point. Exactly Tom's point. That's the difference. And, and, and America Online and all these other people, because it's vision. A Guy Wa the guy sitting in a garage says, I believe this can be 10 billion a year, which they're doing better than that by far, obviously. But that I believe, and I think one of the things that, that a lot of people don't understand is that they look, sometimes they look for passion, but they don't look for vision, right? That's a, what am I going to do? How am I gonna make a difference? And so I think that's a really good, important part point. If you're out there trying to say, how can I become a more passionate leader? You've got to start with a vision. You've got gotta be able to, as much as, as Robert F. Kennedy said, some men see things as they are and ask why I dream things that never were, and ask why not? So you got to get to that point before you can be passionate. Here's a, here's a, here's another item for us, uh, that, that that ties into vision. Uh, it just want to get Martin Luther King March on Washington. I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. And so we look at the march on Washington and the thousands of people in the world changing things at Martin Luther King did. But in just these few words you see, I think artists, they, they paint, they write things that don't exist. That's oftentimes what they do. They see things that other people can't conceive of. William Gibson and science fiction writing about something that would be the internet. He called it cyber or something. He's the first guy who coined the term, I think cyber. But the guys like that could see things coming that other people couldn't see. Yeah. And so again, I want to emphasize to those out there, if you don't have a vision for how you're going to make a difference, it's going to be difficult for you to be passed.

Speaker 3:

No, this is really good. One as you're talking, you know, as as as e-sports was built over years and years. Um, it's funny, I never thought about it of what an artistic thing we were doing when we were building it. And it's funny because for me, e-sports building e-sports and helping kids with special needs, you know, and, and, and them being included and working together with typical kids, it was, it was all about passion. I remember, um, how is bell I was thinking about you're always thinking what's next? Cause I remember in starting thinking, man, I know it. And a lot of it was driven from my own experience of what I got to, what I got to experience growing up on soccer fields. Those relationships, learning a sport, enjoying that, that, that environment. And then seeing and not seeing things for kids with special needs that could have that same type of experience. Right. So I had to sort of envision how do we, they're not going to necessarily play the same in the same, have the same experience in general, being on a team and going through league play like I did. But how do they get to experience what I loved about the friendships and learning the sport and getting proficient at athletics? How would they, how, how would it look for them? I remember always used to think that how do we take what I know about soccer, what I've been trained in, what I love about it and, and make it fit and work for w for where they're at and what their needs are. And so it was something we had to create. And so I remember being on a soccer field the first week, first day with, with the kids and not knowing what to do, but knowing, hey, put a ball in front of them, whether they just start running because there's a lot of running and you got to kick the ball and just kinda figuring it out from there. So it's, it's interesting that you ask about that because one, I just remember

Speaker 2:

always thinking, what do I love about soccer and how can I help kids experience that same love for the sport? Well, and it brings to mind, you know, I remember, and you, you know, you're talking about e-sports, we're talking about technology and, um, you know, I talked to Tom, uh, when I was starting digital scribbler to company would create a software to help kids with autism, uh, that have communication challenges, be able to communicate. But part of it was I, it time and I get to know each other when he was in North Carolina. I was in Washington d C and I remember it was the first time I'd met somebody, uh, that I that or got to know somebody that was building their own technology company. And I think that time you were working with banks a lot in the financial industry. And, um, and it, it, it's funny how seeds get planted for vision and your life before you even know you need them. And, but I, but I remember I go, Oh, this guy is able to make a living just running a technological, but this was foreign to me living on the east coast. Sure. At the time I was like, who does that? Right. And, and, and, and, and that talking and as long as some other people I got to know, um, made me go, let me read about this technology thing. Sure. And then, uh, fast forward to being in Silicon Valley. Two things hit. You were talking about e-sports and how we have the inclusive program. And again, if you want to check that out, there'll be links to the hoops Isacur a work in e-sports work we do, uh, in the body, uh, explaining of the, uh, of the, um, the podcast. But, um, I remember reading the article that said that foot, the eye coordination came quicker than hand eye coordination. And at that moment we were in, uh, a baseball league for special needs kids and we didn't like it. And it wasn't as you described and as you were describing, it wasn't that family feel you get from sports when you're growing up. I was like, I don't need my kids to be professional play high school. I want him to have that experience. And for the first time I saw a vision of how it might be possible. And then I came to you at that vision and said, this is supposed to be possible, but I didn't know. And so I said, is this possible? And then you said, yes, it is. And that was the beginning of a vision. And we became very passionate for that. And the same with when I'm seeing and talking to people like you, Tom, who have built and worked on major, you know, software and companies. When I'm able to look at that, I go, oh, I can build a company that can meet a niche need. Sure. And it took off and there were so many incredible things that happened with, you know, uh, solving[inaudible] and overcoming problems that kids have with technology that they're using technology help kids overcome their human limits that have autism or special needs. The reason I mentioned this again is I want to emphasize if you want to be passionate, you've got to have a vision. You've gotta, you've got to sit down and you've got to say, I looked at pain and discomfort in my life. So you've got to look at that. You gotta look at need in your life. You've got to look at as Greg, to see the need of other people. I know Tom, with the work you did with the[inaudible], seeing the opportunity to transform medicine and how it, how it takes place and now you're working on some new things to help transform people's vision of how they get out, how they socialize, how they find, uh, the, the, the simple things like finding food you want to eat is hard. You know what I mean? You, you, I mean people like people think it's easy, but I know, I, I, I, I sit, there's nothing a little going to eat, you know, and then when people go out and they go, w where are we going to go and how do you know it's going to be good? Who hasn't wasted tons of money? And what's the name of that company? What's the nurtures? Nurtures. Yeah. Cause I, I forgot and we've got put a link in there for that. The thing that amazed me about that is it, you went into that not because of money. You just had this passion. I remember talking about it, I said, what do you

Speaker 4:

doing zoo? It's funny, when we were working at Hippocrates, there's, you know, the group of engineers with, you know, building relationships and, and just having fun. But we always would go out there to eat lunch together and everybody's like, Hey, where do you want to go? Where do you want to go out? I don't know. You know, so I'm like, why don't we just let people vote and then we can kind of organize it and kind of go from there and make it super easy and stuff. So that's where, that's where kind of where the idea went from the back on. So we can walk through exactly how the, how the, how the, how the app works, how the, how the technology works and how someone can, can take advantage of it so we can share it around. Because I've had it since the, the, before it, early days before it was available to that public. Exactly. A lot of people don't. They stress out, you know, trying to get Uber eats and all these things they stress out because they can give you, they can have all the Uber and Amazon they want, but if they don't know what restaurant they want to go to, right? It's

Speaker 2:

sort of pointless. And then a lot of people want to go out again, why am I talking about this? Tom Had a vision. Greg and I had a vision. My vision came from pain. There's all kinds of different things that after you want your, you want someone to have something. And so you, whatever your dream is, you gotta have a dream before you're going to be, you're going to be a passionate leader. Now here's another thing. Artists are original, so artists, anally visionary, but they're original. Here's a quote from the article I read, think about it. And again, they zoned me. Morgan, think about it. Imagine an employee who has a top notch education. Imagine that this person has all the right strengths to excel, the knowledge and the experience. Now imagine that this person though perhaps excessively equipped to handle the job and here's the big punchline, has no interest and is disengaged at work. Their heart isn't in it. Artists are original. They've got, they've got something that, that that they're trying to do that I think is intrinsic. It's something inside of them. And so the, when you're disengaged or disinterested at work is because you're making money and you're putting food on the table. But that's, that's as far as it goes. And many times you're just kind of following along. But I think originality is a big part of what an artist has that keeps them engaged. And I have one for you. You know Bob Dylan, oh, Bob Dylan, who I never ever liked until later in in my life and I fell in love with them because I saw that this guy was the element original and that wonderful line and blowing in the wind. The song, how many roads was ma? How many roads when some man walked down before you call him a man? He, and in my opinion, some of the, some of the greatness of Bob Dylan is one being original. And I know him historically from being, oh, a white man who would have had a comfortable life picking up his guitar and going to the South during civil rights in the cotton fields to Singh and fighting against it. That's originality. Well, I think a lot of people are disengaged with passion. Yeah. Yes it is. And that, and that, that comes from someplace. Nobody originality is, no one told you to do. Right. No one's making you have a belief and you're going to go do it. Yeah. So, well we think of Greg.

Speaker 4:

No, it was just, I was just thinking about how[inaudible]

Speaker 2:

um,

Speaker 4:

all my life I had a passion to, to, I loved sports and I loved the friendships and, and just, you know, always trying to find a way to get better. But man, I remember how different was when I thought, wow, I can that same passion and desire to get better. Now I can, I can give that to kids and families who don't see how they can do it because of the challenges they go through, whatever. And I remember how that was. That was so exciting. And that was, um, so it ties into it.

Speaker 2:

So Tom, one of the questions I, I, you know, I, I wanna I want to ask you is, is, it seems to me that, and you've been working here for a long time, it seems to me that there is a unique passion in Silicon Valley in general. Would that be accurate? Oh, most definitely. And, and you've worked in, you know, in Raleigh, Durham, which was a pretty amazing corridor for research and technology and banking on its own. I mean, it's not silicon valley. And then there's Austin and then there's New York City, I forget what they call it, Soho or something like that. Yeah. Um, but everybody talks, it seems like every three or four years somebody goes, here's the city that's going to knock, uh, silicon valley out. This is the one that's going to take over this one. Go ahead.

Speaker 4:

Well, do not realize that the, um, that's the amazing thing about the bay area is just the diversity of the bay area. It's funny, I was reading the newspaper that day and it's like, Yo, open it up for a car ad and it's like, oh, we speak 16 languages. You know what I mean? You know, it's just like we're in. Where do you go to get that? Yeah. I mean, yeah, people don't realize in a sense, you kind of picture like you see a storm on the horizon and just how vast and big it is. That's really what Silicon Valley is compared to other parts of the world. People try to compete, but there's so much talent, so much vision, so many people that believe, hey, we're here to make a difference in the world.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And, and I think there's an extraordinary amount of originality. I see it every time I'm walking down the street, sitting at a coffee shop. Uh, even, even, even if you go shopping at target, you'll hear, you'll hear people about, oh, I'm going to do this or I'm going to do that. There's nothing off the table. There is an extraordinary amount of originality here. And I think the thing is that everybody else is trying to imitate silicon valley. And it's the sincerest form of flattery as the saying goes. But I think some people don't understand you. You can't imitate originality by definition to imitate. It means you can't be original. And so I think one of the things people don't know about silicon valley is it's one of the most original places I've ever been. I think it is original the Way New York City, Manhattan and New York is with Broadway, for instance. And there's some, I think that's why New York and San Francisco, the bay area, have become the two most globally influential cities in America. They're saying there's a decline for Los Angeles, that Hollywood is losing its influence, right? As the technology. And obviously, you know, New York with their financial right, that's continued to rise. But I think, again, I want to come back to this, that sometimes we want to be passionate, but we're not original. If you don't have something original in you, doesn't mean every idea has to be yours. But if you don't have something original in you, right, you're not going to have passion. You're going to become a worker bee, you're going to become a slot in the machine. So,

Speaker 4:

well that's it. That's what was exciting for me, just even being in technology. Because I think when we started Hippocrates, I mean it is basically started out as Stanford's MBA school. There's two students that came there and they said, hey look, we've got this idea. And one of them actually was a doctor, right? And they ultimately said, hey, we've got a, we've got to make it so docs don't kill people basically until that's what we did, the prescription medication. But it's so cool that once everybody Kinda got the vision of what we're trying to do, like we were literally trying to save patient's lives. Ultimately what it boiled down to. So they lead, literally, we would, people would work through the night, people would, would, you know, engineers would do whatever they had to do to make sure they got in date to try to, you know, hey, we got, we have to release something and it's gotta be good. It's gotta work, you know what I mean? And then, and it's gotta be able to meet the need basically. But it's just, you know, people would be sleeping at places or sleeping at the office and then sleeping, um, you know, just doing whatever they had to do to make sure that the things happened because had a vision, had a passion. Yeah. What we're building is going to change the way doctors take care of their patients. And Lo and behold, I mean, we started off on the palm pilots and Lo and behold, worthy, we're the only healthcare company. When Steve Jobs went to, you know, released the SDK out to the um, you know, to the, to third party developers. We were the only healthcare developer up there and saying hey look, because when Steve went to go deal with this health, you know, concerns or whatever. Yeah. He asked his doctor say if I had to have one app that when I, when I go up there to talk about this, you know, open up the Ios operating systems. So third party developers can develop what healthcare app do I use? All the doctors said you got to use the pocket tees. Holy smokes. Yeah, that's awesome. And so because I think it starts with the fact that people had passion, they had vision. Yes. It says it was the engineer's. There's the people that are designing the screens. It was just a, it was the doctors that were working on staff. It was the pharmacist that we're working together. We're all there together cause we all had that vision, that passion that we're going to change the way doctors treat patients. So, well, one, one of the incredible

Speaker 2:

things, and you're describing it right now is, well, one of the common things to say about artists is artist work and are attached to their art and they don't work for the money. Right. And I think it's hard for people to understand that a lot of people in Silicon Valley, a great number of bill's silicon valley don't work for the money. They may have it, but they don't work for the money. And you can see it. And the evidence that, um, um, there are not a lot of, I mean, this is this, I have to qualify this here. The barrier is big, 8.4 million. So, but there, there are not a lotta in silicon valley, huge mansion type places. Like just like, I mean, someone may look, it's so expensive there. Sure. But it's not like people are out there going, I gotta have this big, huge, you know, a hundred acres, you know, mammoth, 19 bed room, 25 bathroom. And they could afford it, but they, they're not even room for it. Yeah. And by definition they're not interested in that because they could live in a, they could live in a Morgan Hill. Sure. They go down there and then you, well they don't, they don't cause it's not, it's not what it's about. Right. So I think the reason I mentioned it is passion is you're describing it is really, it's, it's something that is original inside of you that says, I want to make this difference. I want to do this thing. My life has a unique sense of identity and destiny and Steve Jobs, he talks about this marriage in my view, between art and technology, between art and leadership. And his quote is, it is in Apple's DNA that technology alone is not enough. It's technology married with liberal arts, married with the humanities that yields us the results that make our hearts sing. One of the things you were mentioning when we were just getting prepped up, Tom, that I think is a good, one of the good things to sort of as we sort of angle down in close ourselves out with some key points is you talked about that while I was telling you that I thought that there's a lot of art involved in Silicon Valley and the creation of, of, of all the technology and, and we include biotech in this as well as pure coding as well as a, well, I'll let you speak on this, but that, that the unique thing about it is the diversity that you, you, you, you, there is art involved in doing it. There's engineering involved in doing it and that a lot of people don't understand that there's not just a bunch of engineers that live in.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, there's just this, not just guys sitting in a room coding, although that does happen. But in order to get there, one, the, the engineers themselves have, they get the vision of what the product's going to do and what, how, what's going to help and, and who was going to influence in those things. But then they also work with the artists. The artists are there to say, okay, hey, how do we make this so that people, one, we make it easy for people that's not complex, is simple, but we can really get them, you know, in a sense, um, change and help their lives be more effective and more efficient, more proficient, that kind of stuff. But you need, you need the people who have, who have kind of an artistry touch, working closely with those guys who say, okay, Hey, I get the vision. I understand what you're trying to do and let me go build it because of the, if they're just going to try to say, okay, Hey, I think I know what you, and let me go build it. That's just a recipe for disaster because you're building something people don't really want. So what you have to do is you have to work and understand, want to understand the needs, understand the problem at the same time, have that ability to, to um, be visionary and be able to see, okay, what's this going to look like? How are People gonna Interact with it? What's going, how's it going to make it easy for them? Why would they go somewhere else where the is something else easier? You know what I mean? So you have to kind of attack it from all those angles. But that's just a, that's just a, a diverse team working together to build a product. It's just not the engineers, it's, it's just a whole team of, you have your UX people, you have your, your, your product research people that are super important. It's to understand making sure you understand the problem and you understand the problem that people want fixed and then you come up with a solution that really makes a difference.

Speaker 2:

See, I think what you just described is not what people altogether understand about silicon valley. Sure. And I think it's much bigger than that. I think when they see mark Zuckerberg, they think, okay, we're mad at him because he gave away our data or whatever it is. And they think he's the singular representative. Everything is here. Number one. I think that's not true. And, and, and it's much more complicated than that. But I think the biggest, the biggest part that is sad is that much of the country doesn't see the heartbeat of this area. And it gets made a caricature in newspapers, in places that don't understand what it takes to build these engines of the economy, which they really are. And they're going to be mistakes made the same way. One of the funny things about art, right is a, there's a guy named[inaudible] gall that I started to, like, he was an artist and, and did a lot of painting before. Uh, it was exposed what Hitler and the Germans were doing to the Jews, Marc Chagall, I think I pronounced his name right. And so he has these pogroms, which were, they were already before even World War II got going. They were already doing very terrible things to Jewish people. He would paint about it to expose it. Oh Wow. And his paintings would go out and he found a lot of different ways to do it, to try to get people to listen, to try to get you there. I think a lot of art artists are courageous and aint one of the parts of Silicon Valley can be missed as the courage. I know I've known guys and read about guys here who their company ended up being extraordinary, but they built it off of hunt of 60, 70, 80 a hundred thousand dollars worth of credit card debt that they were just charging the card because they believed in the idea so much. They take risks, they're bold. One of the things that the article that Nazomi Morgan wrote about, uh, that she wrote in the article says, it's the passionate people that take the biggest risk, step up to the plate and help make the biggest leaps forward with teams, companies and organizations. If you're going to be a passionate leader, you're going to have to be courageous. And I think that's one of the reasons we see probably fewer people leading today is that there is a, there is a failure of courage, but I think there's a failure of courage because there's a failure of vision and a failure of originality. People, people so much want to fit in and so have so little original idea that they become devastated if someone criticizes them, doesn't support them, doesn't believe in them. And as you know, Tom from working down here, a failure is never fatal here. The only way failure is fatal here. There's a guy who's written a book that I've been reading on innovation. He's a Harvard business, uh, guy and I can't remember his name right now. Um, but he, he talked about the fact that innovation is being poorly understood with regard to silicon valley that people think in Silicon Valley innovations about letting people ride skateboards in the hall, giving away free food and that it's a wonderful thing. He goes, that certainly goes on. He goes, but failure, if you fail and don't learn a lesson, you will be gone. That's right. The reason failure is not fatal here is because people love people who learn lessons. Would you agree with that? Definitely have the courage to make mistakes. Even the, even with the startup, you have to, you have to, you pivot. So many times in a startup, it's unbelieve. You Think, oh, wait a minute, I've got the solution. Let's go down this path. Oh no, that's not. We're, let's pivot. You know what I mean? Yeah. Let's go a different directions. Ah, that's not working either. Okay. Let's pivot going a different direction. Cause I think that's the thing is, is because the whole thing about silicon valley, it's all about investing in the people and the people with the vision and the people with the heart and the desire to, to make a difference. And I want to give you, I want to give you the title. I have that book. It's creative construction, creative construction, the DNA of sustained innovation by Gary p Paisano. And he does a great job talking about the fact that it's much tougher. Silicon Valley's much tougher place to be than people think because innovation's much tougher. Takes courage. Again, if you're going to have passion, you're going to have to adopt some of these things. I want to end on this last thing that artists are free. I think a lot of a lot of ways because they have that vision because they have that sense of, of, of originality. They're not locked up by, by expectations of society, by expectations that they fulfill a certain type of success or status where people point to and say, Hey, you've been a success. That artists really are free in that way. And uh, one of the quotes from the article I want to read a really to the end is this is in large part she writes, this is in large part because people want to follow a passionate leader. She starts talking about why leading with passion is so important. This is in large part because people want to follow a passionate leader, someone who cares about not only the cause for which he or she is working, but also the other people who are involved in the effort. Passion for the projects, for the company and for the people involved are key to successful leadership. Take some time. We hope you do. After listening to our podcast to examine, am I leading number one, but am I leading with passion? Have I quit leading because I ran out of passion? In which case you have to look at was it really passionate in the first place? And, and, and, and understand that in order to make a difference in the world, you really do have to have the art of being a passionate leader. Thank Tom and Greg for joining us today and we hope you enjoy our podcast. This is lead different

Speaker 5:

and we'll see you on the next time out.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 5:

Thank you for listening to the lead different podcasts. Make sure to take a moment to leave us a five star rating and write us a review. We'd really appreciate that and feel free to share our leadership content with others and go to Russ uil.com for more leadership content like this. Thanks again and we will see you next time.