No One Is Bigger Than The Mission | Military & Leadership

 Finishing the second part of our Military Leadership podcast, Russ continues his conversation with Lee and Ric on who were the military leaders that inspire them. One of the key take-aways is how helpful it is for everyone on the team to have a clear mission and purpose to what they are trying to accomplish. Once everyone knows their role and what they specifically bring to the team then they become bought into the bigger picture. Harry S Truman, the 33rd President of the United States and former Colonel in the U.S. Army, once said, “It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” That is the sweet spot for any leader and any team, everyone embracing a mantra of “I am not bigger than our mission.” And as we continue to lead different we will embrace that role. 

Show Note:

Brothers, Rivals, Victors by Jonathan W. Jordan - https://amzn.to/2SVGIwp

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Eh, not what your country can do for you and what you can do for your country. You are one word. I have a dream of one day. This nation will

Speaker 2: 0:25

welcome to lead different, the podcast about leadership. And we're on our second episode of what we can learn from the military, the military's role in developing leaders or building leaders. And uh, on this particular episode we're going to start talking about who are the military leaders you look up to admire for their example of leadership. And one of the reasons we're going to do that is we think there's some great lessons to be learned. And we already off Mike started discussing a number of people, but I'm going to get Rick in here because he, he was smiling before saying, I've got some leaders, military leaders I admire and I'm going to surprise you. And so he did it going to have some m and ms for me or he's going to have a name. I would never, I would never guess. So. Uh, let's get into it and I hope we hope you've listened to episode one. It, I loved it. And I, and this one I think is gonna be really encouraging and exciting for you.

Speaker 3: 1:16

Well, awesome. I think the first guy when I, when I was thinking about this question, um, and it kind of surprised me that I thought about too was, you know, just the first president, George Washington. I think if you just look at, um, you know him in battle, if you look the histories of his battles, that was incredible. But I think the thing that I admired the most was he led with humility. And if you've ever been to Philadelphia and been to constitution hall and seeing like where all the, the original capitol was, you know, you go on the tour, one of the things that they said that I'll never forget is that's where the first transition of power went were Washington gave up power and they said that was really the first time in history that, you know, power was really voluntarily given up without somebody dying, fighting. And if you been to Washington D C and you've been to the Capitol building, you know, like he was supposed to be in turn there. He's supposed to be there forever. They really worshiped him. And if you look at the top of the Rotunda, you know, he's actually up there almost like a god and they, and you know, he could have been called a king. And I, and I know that when it was time to do that transition, he could have said, you know what, I think I want to stay. And nobody would've said anything. Right. You know, the whole thing could have been blown up right there. So I think he, he was the first one and I think the second one was Abraham Lincoln. I was stationed on the USS Lincoln. So I got to learn in the military. So, so, so that made me, so that made me, um, let's think about, you know, him having to keep the country together through, you know, the civil war, like he had the vision in, um, you know, the foresight and just the endurance, uh, the perseverance to get through that because again, that's another spot where our country almost went away. You know, he had to see, he had to tough job of taking, we were talking about when a rust, his favorite leaders, I'll let him talk about him, but just a general as he had hired general's fire generals and he had to, you know, keep the people together. And to me it's just really sad that, you know, he didn't live too long after the civil war to actually see what he had done. You know,

Speaker 2: 3:18

you know, you know I'm going to jump in. You can, you can, you can take my general and talk by him. You'll talk about I'm better than me. The thing I want to come back to though is cause we're, we're talking to this thing about, you know, leaders we admire, but we can also learn lessons. And one of the lessons I'm getting in my heart and head hearing you talk is that a leader has to have the willingness to give up power. That if you're really going to be an effective leader, then you have to know when people are going overboard being focused on you, uh, uh, lifting you up to celebrity or idol status. And what you're talking about is the thing that made Washington special, that made this country to one degree. What it is today is a guy who probably learned that whole, I'm smaller than that, that the cause is bigger than the individual. The guy had the capacity after having been in the military and he was first in the British military before he became the leader of our military in America. He said, okay, I got to walk away and something, you know, I've, I've, I'm a little, I'm, I'm familiar with him. He's, he's never been my favorite, cause he's a little too far away from me. I can't read. He's a little, his detachment makes it difficult to even grasp him today. But I think that detachment is that part of him that says, I don't want you overly focused on me. I'm not the big deal. And I listened to that. And I go, as leaders, you know, secular and even spiritual leaders, we have to have the capacity to say, you know what, this is enough. I don't need to have more. And so that's, that's brilliant. And with Lincoln, you, you, you surprise me, d or You or you, cause I forgot he was in the military. Are you saying that part of what made him able to hold the country together was some of that, that uh, that experience of knowing how to make yourself less or,

Speaker 3: 5:03

well, I think, I think that's it, but also to just, I think, um, you know, being the president of you, you know, you really are over your overall charge of the military. I think just his leadership ability to hold together, cause you know, it, it, it just had to have been, it had to have been a crazy, just, you know, half of the country saying we're going to be different. Yeah. And the, and, and, and the majority of the generals that came out of west point went with the south. Yeah. Louis Lee Lee came.

Speaker 2: 5:33

Yeah. Yeah. And they had a ton. They got the majority. And here, here's what you'd say about Lincoln. Here's what I think about it. Right. So[inaudible] s grant, who was, you alluded to then, that's my boy right there. You, you, you s you unconditional surrender grant. Um, so this was grant, it was, he, he wants some of the first initial battle cause they were getting their tail kicked by the confederacy, like up and down that all around. And then the west, he started to win some battles and started to rise in prominence. And uh, and there was, there were, there, there was a whisper campaign against him out of competition. Uh, but uh, somebody went to Lincoln and said, hey, you don't, you know, he drinks, don't, you know, he's drunk half the time. He doesn't even hardly come out of his tent. And now these things weren't substantiated, but they were just unknown, you know, running them down. And Lincoln, this is an example, you're talking about Lincoln Lincoln turn to the people and he said, well, you see drinks than whatever he's drinking. I want to get all my other generals because he wins battles. I mean, that's Rankin going, I'm not going to be controlled by the slander, by the, by the, by the, by the competition and, and I'm going to manage this whole thing. He also managed it well because he gave politicians who didn't know anything about leading general ships in order to make sure their states came with the union. So I think that's a great choice. Do you have one more or are those your top two?

Speaker 3: 6:50

Well, I think the, uh, the other one, um, was I think, you know, General Colin Powell, you know, he was more when I was growing up seeing him. And I think just being able to be, you know, the joint chiefs and, you know, he was also, um, I think he was, um, you know, there was a national security advisor while he was still enlisted. Yeah. Um, which I didn't even know you could do. He was still enlisted. He still general, I think they made an exception. Yeah. And you know, and then secretary of state and you know, and probably could have been president.

Speaker 2: 7:19

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There you go again. In the military, you looked at his family, knew his wife was going to give it the know and said, I can submit myself to something greater. And we all know that as married men, you can sit them all and not every married man can do that, but I can submit myself to something greater. I'm seeing, I'm filling a theme. And Lee, you look like you're biting at the bit. What do you got for us?

Speaker 4: 7:42

Well, uh, you know, I was thinking about, um, uh, to people, uh, in terms of, of leaders. Um, one was, um, my, my dad, uh, Gosh, sorry. No, no, no, it's great. Um, so my dad, uh, came from a small town in South Texas and, uh, like so many people did approaching world war two. They were country people. And, um, he, he was one of, uh, you know, four, uh, brothers. His Dad died when they were all young. His mom was a widow. She was a schoolteacher and had to raise these four boys. All four of them went into the military really? And, uh, um, you know, the oldest brother didn't come back, but the other, the three did. My Dad did. Um, but what I appreciate about him was that, uh, he, he became, uh, a, a subject matter expert. He was, uh, he became a chief petty officer very quickly because he was on the cutting edge of electronics, which was new and World War II. And he ended up running a shop in, uh, Pearl Harbor where all the planes would come in, shot up.[inaudible] and his crew in a very amount of time would go through the plains, fix all their radios, their electronics, all their gear, and send them back out, uh, to battle as a very young, uh, leader. So he, he rose through the ranks by being excellent at what he did, uh, willing to do the hard work. Uh, he, he, he wasn't a guy that glorified in being a leader, but he became the leader of that, uh, that whole crew. So, um, you know, and, uh, of course I didn't, uh, just follow in, go in the navy because of him. I also had other, uh, military relatives, but, you know, the man, the kind of man that he was, uh, caused me to know that if I went in the military, I would get shaped as well.

Speaker 2: 9:41

Tell me, tell us, tell us your dad's name. Uh, Jim Delone. Wow. That is so inspiring because, you know, it's an interesting thing. I've watched band of brothers and I think it's probably, I mean I'm, you know, I wasn't there so I can't say, but from a World War II point of view, uh, I don't think I've ever been as moved by a, a, the imagery, uh, in the storytelling in that because what they do at the end of each episode, uh, I think it's eight. They ha they have the original guys come on and talk. And it's humbling because you sit there even today and you look at our country and you're like, seriously, we're doing this. When these guys did that and you just feel really kind of embarrassed that, you know, you just hoping those guys that are still alive, I think there's some, they're still alive, aren't just shaking their head the whole time. But when I watched that, the thing that impacted me and when I hear you talk about your dad, Jim, Jim, I am so happy you brought him up because when I was watching the movie, I was blown away by these small towns. These guys came from and the fierceness was, which they defeated the country. And even today they say that the large percentage of people who go into the military are from our small towns. Right. And sometimes we don't appreciate the fact that there's a legacy there that is, is equally as important as a Harvard, Stanford or pick your school a legacy that is, has made this country what it is today. And sometimes I think that we can forget that. So I think it's important to tell the story and it's also inspiring when you can, when you can think about your dad that way. With my dad who was in the army, I always saw the army as a negative. Not the, not, not the, I'm sorry, not the army, but the experience he had in the army is a negative cause he was playing, he was just about to make it in the Negro Baseball League and he'd been told to be set already in second baseman and he got drafted and went in the army and never play baseball again. So I always associated that with, you know, a, a negative. He never did. He never said anything like that. He didn't meant they didn't talk about that that much. He was stationed in Germany and then he fought during the Korean War, but all his brothers were there. Right. And there are things that five of them and I've a picture of all of them. And I've thought about that a lot lately cause I go, you know, that's what they were doing for the country. And I look around and I go, we almost need more history like that to realize again, these people like your dad put their life on the line, making sure that we had people being defended and in Pearl Harbor, I mean just being in Pearl Harbor, I'm just, wow, that's incredible. He's a good one. He's Kinda top of the list cause it's personal. So we're making sure we're making him number one right now. We're sorry about General Patton and Ulysses s grant. They're going to get bumped down a little bit. But, uh, you got to know, enforced.

Speaker 4: 12:28

Uh, I would s one of the things I was thinking about as we were talking is that, um, even within military leadership, you need different kinds of, of leaders. And you know, some, some leaders, uh, when we were off Mike, we were talking about how, uh, patent was such a powerful tactical, uh, leader, uh, in, in battle, whereas, uh, Eisenhower was, uh, brilliant in his ability to orchestrate all the political and logistical, uh, forces, uh, that were necessary to bring countries together and still get the job done. So there's different kinds of leaders. And, uh, one, a very unique, uh, leader who, um, you know, was inspiring to me was, uh, Admiral Hyman g ric over. So Aberdeen, but I don't know any, so atmo hyphen g Rickover was the father of the nuclear submarine. Okay. And he started the whole nuclear navy and a ever recover. Uh, I got to interview with him personally because he made a, a commitment to the country that he would personally interview any officer that would ever be in charge of running a nuclear power plant. Kidding. And he told that to Congress and he proceeded for the next 45 years to personally interview every officer because he, he wanted Congress to know, because realize when he introduced nuclear power and nuclear submarines in the early fifties, this was so close to World War II, people were thinking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They were thinking of nuclear, anything nuclear as being something that was going to be so dangerous or that, you know, they could have a melt down in there. The in San Diego where the ship was or the submarine was. And so, uh, he was an engineer and he instilled a culture of excellence, which, uh, was, um, you know, almost too much, uh, in terms of what he expected out of his officers and his enlisted men who became nuclear or nuclear trained. And so he, he continued to run that program, uh, for decades beyond when most people are retired because he had such a passion and, you know, he was, he was that, uh, good at organizing and creating a, a culture of excellence, excellence and understanding the engineering, um, uh, things that it took, uh, right down to every little bolt and screw had a pedigree for going into the nuclear power plant. It, each bolt had its own, what you could track, you know, by number because it had to have the highest quality of, of material so that it sort of wouldn't melt or corrode or break or whatever. Those kinds of standards were, were unique that he all introduced. So he's a very different kind of, of leader. He was an engineer. He was someone that built a program. He was, uh, he wasn't an inspirational guy. Uh, he sounds like the inspired you. Well, he's inspiring me right now. Yeah, he did. He did. Can I just, I w so, so there's, man,

Speaker 2: 15:48

you know, I think we're just going to have to make this a consistent podcast because there's just no way that I can get all my questions answered. And so I appreciate you guys taking the time to come in. We'll just figure it out. We'll, we'll figure it out and maybe we'll get a couple of other our friends in here, but I want to say two things. I'll say the f the second thing first. So I don't forget, I want to take in our time we have together, I want to take a little bit of time and just, you know, we've all been part of different organizations together and, and nonprofit, uh, organizations and all that. And maybe we'll talk, talk a little bit about, you know, how, based on what we've seen, how those organizations can work together better as leaders. Maybe we can talk about that without mentioning any names. Organizations just say, hey, here's some things that maybe we can think about that would make us work together better. But I went, I wanna I wanna I wanna I want to show you how all this comes together. So, um, one of my best friends, and you guys know him, uh, Scott colden's married to Margo Colvin, but Margot's made name is Stevenson and th who are the guys who run the news?

Speaker 4: 16:54

Clear slabs. What's the rank? Well, it, the, by the time you were a captain of a nuclear sub, usually a commander. Okay. Okay.

Speaker 2: 17:01

So, um, her dad hap Stevenson was a, you know, like a captain of a nuclear sub, right.

Speaker 4: 17:09

So captain, you can be a captain of a tiny ship.[inaudible] the rank of captain he was at, so he might've had the rank of captain as well. He might have been a large nuclear ballistic trident submarine. He might've had it. He might've been a pretty

Speaker 2: 17:26

after legend. And he's pretty much a legend here. I was on a plane coming from a someplace in Asia. It could have been Thailand. I can't remember. I was coming from, got on the plane and I got a, I got lucky. I got bumped up to a business class and, uh, I was happy because I could sleep better. And I was like, you know, cause I, back then I was flying all the times. I'd always miles and you, I was like always trying to finagle something cause you just dying. And I sat down on my seat next to guy and we started talking. And, uh, so he, he asked me what I, what I did and I gave him the two or three different things that I do. And then, uh, and then I said, what do you do? He goes, Oh, I, uh, I build nuclear subs. I go, why? He goes, yeah, my, my company builds nuclear subs. I go, you gotta be kidding me. And I said, I actually know a guy who captain a nuclear sub. And he goes, who's like, oh, he gonna have Stevenson. He goes, oh, I know him. That guys, or at least I know of him, he's a legend. I saw Braveheart when it opened. That's an old classic with Hap and Scott. And I'll tell ya, he, uh, he is, and he lives in a, y probably shouldn't say where he lives, but, uh,[inaudible] south down that in, in southern direction. Um, but he, uh, just to sit with him and I've done it a few times and ask questions about leadership. His every breath feels like an a leadership education. I mean, he's every breath. It's like you just breathe and you're just like, oh, I just learned something about leadership. So I assume he was interviewed. He was, he was personally interviewed by Admiral Rick over. I guarantee you that. So we've got six degrees or less with separation and a and r one way or another. It would be really great for you to be able to talk to him. But, so I Kinda wanna I wanna I wanna Kinda close this one out. This is really great and I think we're going to just need to do more of these. And I'm going to come up with, I've got a million military related questions, culture. I've, I've studied it a lot, but it's like football. I studied a lot, never played. Um, when you mentioned tactical strategic, and I would call the Rick over, is that how you say his name? He sounds like a builder. Right? Right. And, and when you mentioned those, what does that, what can we learn from that? Say an organization's we've been a part of that we could do better as, as leaders, as far as it seems like people know their role, know why their role's important and know how to stay out of each other's way, which I can't say I'm good at that. I'm trying but know how to stay out of each other's way. Can you guys make a few comments on, on how that works with[inaudible] and you were, you were, you know, you, you, you, your perspective is a little different Rick, because you have, I'm sure there's a management of people above you that has to occur for you to do your job. Leah alluded to it before, where there guys that are like, Hey, stay out of my space. You don't necessarily rank above the guy but you know more than the guy knows about that particular subject. Can you guys just say a little bit in closing about how teams of leaders can work together effectively? Maybe I can put in a better question because think of me a little bit, you know, all over, I was talking to some guys a couple of weeks ago and I said, well, I really think this particular organization doesn't necessarily have to have a head, just one guy over everything. It could function as team leadership. And one of the people said that never works. And I, I don't agree with that. Of course. Uh, I don't think that's true. I think there are lots of people who have failed to execute on team leadership, but failure to execute does not mean it doesn't work. Um, but give me your comments. You may even think the team leadership doesn't work, but tell me your comments on what you think organizations can learn about working together and knowing your spot, tactical strategic builder or whatever you want to call it. Can you make a few comments on that before we close?

Speaker 4: 21:12

I would say, um, I'll go back to an earlier comment, which is, is that you really have to know your, your mission and be clear on the mission. And once you know the mission, then it enables you to play your role knowing that you're no less than important than anybody else that's there. And I think that, you know, um, within an organization, um, it's, it's just ridiculous to think that any, any one leader would be competent in all of the aspects of running that organization. Um, right now, uh, here's another leader, uh, is, um, the director of the Palo Alto healthcare system, 5,000 employees and 10 locations across the central Swat. I fell out 5,000, uh, nurses and nursing assistants and LVNs and doctors and psychiatrists and social workers and maintenance workers and people that, that sterilize the rooms. And um, uh, I really appreciate him as a leader. He started as a a a nursing assistant, just changing people's diapers and feeding them and whatever. And he has worked his way in the VA all the way to be the director of this healthcare system. And he is the first to, to, to say, um, almost every time that we're together that, um, you know, to acknowledge the unique roles that the various leaders at work and people that work for him, uh, play, but leaders even amongst themselves then and uh, and just really, uh, building them up for what they're, what they do, uh, that[inaudible] without the logistics chief. Um, then nobody can operate on anybody. And, you know, without, uh, the nurse that's gonna provide the care afterwards, uh, you know, the patient that a brilliant operation was done on is going to die anyway. So he, he's really good at, uh, at helping people to feel great about the role that they play within the organization because everyone understands the mission is to take care of those that have, have laid their lives on the line

Speaker 2: 23:46

for the country. Everyone understands that mission. He talks about it all the time. I'm going to put you in an awkward spot, but I'm going to say it anyway. So I mentioned reading the book. Uh, I think brothers and rivals, um, I think it's Patton, Eisenhower and Bradley. And in the book, one of the things I learned, and I'm a little subjective on this point, but I think it barrier is worn out by history. One of the things I learned is that pattern was probably our greatest general in World War II if it came to fighting when it came to fighting, but not necessarily when it came to winning. What I mean by that, the whole war that Bradley was much more stable, much more, um, what's the word? Uh, humble I guess is the word self-effacing would probably be a better description of that. Eisenhower too. Uh, and that one of the dilemmas was that, uh, patent was very flashy. Um, uh, um, you know, domineering, you know, Pearl handled pistols, the Ha he was, he was wealthy. People didn't know that. Very wealthy. So he had his uniforms and different things customized or made in different ways. And the tendency is when you look at it or choose to go, man, you know, I want to be patented. I remember when I saw that movie version, I want to be patented. Right. And I still love Patton. But when I, after I read brothers and rivals, I went, wow. The most, the most, the most effective general overall where Bradley and Eisenhower, when you look at effective, that is the say, I'm not trying to disparate pattern, I'm just going, it, it, it. But, but it took the whole for them to work because when they ran into a jam and they needed somebody to win and they protected patent patent got himself in the more junk. I didn't even know more junk. And Eisenhower and Bradley knew we can't win without this guy. So when you said about the logistics chief, we can't win with that. The Guy who can take a group in a battle this ragged, like you said, and beat down and turn them into a fighting machine. Right? We can't wear the guy. But at the same time, we can't keep peace with Russia with that guy. So we got to keep him away from the Russians cause he's ready. He's ready to start world war three today. And so as I listened to you talk, I go that that must happen because they all understand the mission. And Patton was able to submit the Eisenhower who started out his June as his junior, um, because he recognized the mission is to win the war, not to see who's the best general or gets the most, you know, victories or whatever. Um, and so I, I, I, I love what you're talking about and I think what I'm compelled by is to get people to listen to this podcast and begin to understand the theme. Both you and Rick, if run all the way through, which is people's capacity to say this, I'm not bigger than this mission. Right. And when I understand I'm not bigger than this mission, whether you're the guy who is quote unquote in charge or not. Cause if the guy like the director of the Palo Alto[inaudible] system healthcare system, he understands because of where he came from. I'm not bigger than the guy who cleans the room. Right. And that if a leader can remember that, that will keep us all out of a lot of trouble. Would you add anything, Rick, that you're thinking about on that?

Speaker 3: 26:58

Well, I mean I think to add, you know, I have seen that successfully, the management that, that style, you know, I think you were, I'm working at right now are our CEO. Like he wants us to like if we see something that's wrong, needs to be changed, he has an open door. You know, granted there aren't, there still needs to be somebody on charge that makes the final, final decision. But you know, I've worked at a couple places that were very successful and those guys always had that same mentality that, you know, you hire the best people, you know, you listen to them, you listen to them. Right?

Speaker 2: 27:32

And so you're basically saying that look, leadership in some ways is about decision making, not control. It's about saying, can I empower remove obstacles? And yes, at the end of the day, the, the leader or man or woman in charge really shouldn't look at it as I'm in charge. Cause I'm going to tell everybody what to do and decide everything. But I'm gonna, I'm going to manage my team and then I, I'm going back at book brothers and rivals with Eisenhower. Patton would come in and go, I got to have this many tanks. I gotta have this one. He soldiers, gimme so-and-so soldiers. He's not doing anything with them. I can get us to, I'll have you in this city. I'm able to just a wonder to listen to the guy talking in, in the, in the language of the book. And He'd be like, I'll get you this. I can get you there. And, and Eisenhower would know it, but on occasions I would have a go, no, because if I let you have those truths, then so-and-so can't win this than England. Doesn't feel victory. I think it was Montgomery. Then England doesn't feel the victory. And so you're just going to have to suck it up and accept the fact that he's going to get Monty. He's going to get there before you, because that's what's needed to get the job done. Right. So he's making the decision, but he's not doing everything. Uh, this has been a wonderful podcast. I'm inspired. I can't wait to listen to it. And I don't say that about every podcast that we do. I can't wait to listen to it because there are so many insights. Hope you guys will come back. I thank you for your time, obviously. Thank you for your service. And I think everybody out there for their service has been in the military. People like Jim Delone, chief petty officer, Jim Delone who fought for us in World War II. And I hope some of you out there, maybe if you started to listen to this podcast and you had a view of the military that was maybe incorrect, that this gave you a different view of the military and what it's done. Not only in times of war, not only what it doesn't in, in, in, in the military organization as an issue in itself, but also what people post-military are doing and organizations all around the country to save, help and care for people. So we'll see a again on lead different, have a wonderful week.

Speaker 1: 29:22

Okay.

Speaker 2: 29:25

Thank you for listening to lead different and thanks again to Lee and Rick for coming on the show. Nature to take a moment to leave us a five star rating and write us a review. We'd really appreciate it. Feel free to share our leadership content with others. A special thank you to all those who have served in the military.

Speaker 1: 29:39

See you next time.