Ep 5: The Complexities of Burnout, Success and Authenticity in Life

**This episode is the 2nd part of an exploration of burnout. So be sure to listen to ep4 before so it makes sense.**

Sharing deeply personal stories, we explore how burnout has shaped our lives and discuss the necessity of playing the 'long game' of life. More than that, we delve into the importance of surrendering to what life wants for us, offering insights on how to cultivate a harmonious relationship between these opposing forces.

What if the pursuit of success leads us away from our true selves? In our conversation, we discuss how burnout can stem from not aligning with one's true self. We also tackle societal perceptions of women, manipulation, and the value of consistency over courage in relationships. 

Drawing parallels from nature, we'll show how the relentless pursuit of productivity can be likened to the degradation of topsoil in agriculture. 

In a significant shift of perspective, we reframe 'sacrifice' as a 'choice.' We underscore the importance of self-care, sharing the coping mechanisms we have adopted during these stressful times. So, come join us on this ride as we traverse the long game of life, uncovering authentic living, relationships, societal expectations, and navigating change along the way.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:18

Hello, welcome back Live here and. Lola is here too. This is part two of Burnouts. If you have not listened to the first part of Burnout, please go back and equate yourself with that episode. It will give a lot of context and make sense as to the second half of what we are talking about.

Speaker 2: 1:39

It was long, so we split the episode in two and we hope you enjoy it. We're still getting used to this while we giggle in it's nervous laughter. We're still getting used to these things. It's still if you could only see what goes on behind the scenes. But enjoy the episode, peoples, Ciao.

Speaker 1: 2:14

I mean, I've certainly not met anybody that hasn't had big success, but big success without killing themselves I've not met. Actually, I have a lot of people in my life that have had relatively success in you know, in, I would say, in a more conventional way, and I would say that I have not met any of them that didn't have to have enormous personal sacrifice and physical sacrifice, whether that be stress or if you're an athlete, it's the physical stuff, the emotional stuff, like it's big. One thing that I can see that I think is interesting and I think deep down, I believe this Is that you win. I'm a long game player in life and you are too, and I think that's one of the places where we really jam, always have Right, and I think you've taught me that. You've influenced me greatly there, and some of the few other people in my life have as well.

Speaker 1: 3:20

What does it look like to truly play a longer game? And a longer game Probably looks like many burnouts along the way, a lot more pausing, a lot more redirecting, a lot more willing to sort of Like burn down what you built, because it's not true, but a lot more willing to take that massive fucking risk to lose, like, I think, in order to win over a long game slowly, have to always be willing to lose, otherwise you're not in the game. The game doesn't exist if you're not willing to lose. And so I think the smartest people I know and I would say smart being they're smart with their resources, internally and externally. They've really mastered life. They're not necessarily the ones that have the most on paper, but they've mastered Honoring themselves internally and externally. I can think of a few examples of this Very few, but I can think of a few where At some point they let go of a destination and they surrendered to what life wanted for them. Sounds so fucking esoteric, but it's very Michael you know I get it.

Speaker 1: 4:57

Yeah, it's like not having, I think, when we kind of a bit operating for our wounds I guess is a different way to say it we just like we, so need to know that we've, we're valuable, we figured out how successful we like that ego in us, the wound. It just leads and drives and drives, and drives and drives and drives, and drives, and drives.

Speaker 1: 5:18

And I believe there's another way. I am really making a very conscious effort to orient my life from a different place and I still have so many of these patterns and influences and parts, survival things in me, the workaholic in me, the one who's scared and afraid in me. You know, I still have all of that program running in, the capitalist in me that's like sort of willing to work or cost us. There's still so much going on inside and I do feel like I have access to that deeper, that deeper thread of no really winning in life is about fucking surrender, big fat surrender To. I guess, letting go of the wheel of believing that I have will, my will, is more powerful than anything else. I don't believe that it's.

Speaker 2: 6:17

No, I think that I love that so much on.

Speaker 2: 6:19

So what you said, hmm, so much is just made up, right. And so when I was just listening to you talking, I was thinking that so feel was the one of the words was coming up for me which was like, kind of what feels you? Are you going to be fueled by, you know, the wounds or the running from something trying to prove yourself, hustling for your worth, very powerful survival drive, right, I personally feel like I'm still moving over from one to the other, yes, moving over for a very long time. Right, you know, I definitely feel like I'm in a place where I have no interest in hustling for my worth. It doesn't hold any satisfaction or value to me anymore, and if I'm recognized by people for something I don't give a fine fuck about, it doesn't mean anything anymore, you know. So that's good, that's gone. But yes, this internal thing, this internal drive, the survival drive, is still there and will always be there. I don't think that's going to go anywhere, because that's something about that is biologic as well, I think.

Speaker 1: 7:42

Yeah, I think. If I think it's, we need it.

Speaker 2: 7:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:45

It's not that I'm not here to vilify it. I just don't want to drive it Right.

Speaker 2: 7:51

I want to tell it what to do, because I have. I have moments, you know, and I've had times where I'm like, oh, feeling really aligned here, like everything's feeling in the right place inside, and what that looks like is that part that you described there, the surrendered part, driving, leading and giving directions to the other parts, and there's like a relationship that develops between all of them as well, which has taken some time, and that's what I think it is for me to cultivate, to be honest with you, and it's the heart of my work at the end of the day, and and it requires constant attention that they are like soldiers. You know, those parts that are currently driving most people, they're actually like soldiers, you know, they're like henchmen, they're like stormtroopers, they're like you're meant to just get. They're not meant to be, they have not got the intelligence to be running the show Right. You know they really don't Right.

Speaker 2: 8:48

In a great scheme of things, in the things that really matter. And I think there's something about I know I posed the question about can you have that conventional type of success? And maybe that's what the problem is the conventional type of success, you know, which can know it can never be for everyone. Nothing could ever be for everyone anyway. So I love what you said there when you said people that I know that do it. They have less materiality than I do.

Speaker 1: 9:16

I mean I think that's something that really was what I was kind of hearing, and there's a different this they're not being sort of driven by the greed and the acquisition Right.

Speaker 2: 9:28

Like what are they driven by? What do they seem driven by to you, then?

Speaker 1: 9:31

Well, I was thinking about you and I talk a lot about Kim K and who I like and I love the connections and you know there's some very specific sort of behaviors of greed that exists in her and she's brilliant like brilliant businesswoman, but brilliant with her resources, and my observation is well, I would say that is a woman who there's a it's clearly a big override happening in order to be that productive and do that many things all at the same time and, you know, live the life that she does. Yeah, a classic. I don't know how she does it. I don't know how she does it Kind of slogan would be attached to someone like Kim K for me, but there's a kind of I'm trying to think of something we touched the other day. What was your question to me again just now? Here we go.

Speaker 2: 10:37

What do you? I know that Remember. You said that I can't remember.

Speaker 1: 10:39

You can't remember. No, I've got it.

Speaker 2: 10:43

It's something about like what? What are they driven by?

Speaker 1: 10:47

Yeah, okay. Well, I think this. I also don't like what you said. I don't want to demonise and villainise the drive. I think that the drive is a great thing. I love drive and I think that that drive they have a great relationship with the drive. They don't have a great great relationship with the enoughness. They don't know where it's, they don't know what enough is. It's no sufficiency.

Speaker 2: 11:13

Yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 11:14

Yes, there's a real insufficient use of energy, even though they have so much, right, right, I think when someone has that much and they are like, it's like they're literally just overloaded with things. I find people like that quite hard to connect to in a personal way. Yeah, if I'm looking to build a relationship with someone, I want them to have space in their life They've not got space internally?

Speaker 2: 11:43

There's no, there's no space, exactly, yes, apart from Courtney, that's the one who, and Courtney, for me, is the one. I like Courtney a lot. As you can see, we are big Kardashian fans. We are, we are, we watch the shows, we love the shows. Yeah, kind of interesting. And Courtney, for me is. It's been so interesting watching her over the years, right, what's been going on with her? We've seen she's a long game player. Yes, much more of a long game player, much more kind of. Actually, this is what matters to me my family Right.

Speaker 1: 12:20

Much more intentional, much more driven by something, as a connection, to a conscious connection. So like I am consciously connected to the things that I value, right, I know myself I've spent the time without the noise, without the validation, without the success to actually reflect what matters to me. And when I have a clear sense of what matters to me, it is far easier to say no, thank you, right, thank you for that, thank you for that.

Speaker 2: 12:51

I know what's not for me, I know what's not for me, and we've watched her bravely, I think, because it must take, that's very brave Like the family way is clearly the other way, not her way, and so we've watched her like any kind of quote, unquote, black sheep of the family kind of be ridiculed and judged and all this stuff where it's like, well, she, she's the one for me, in my opinion, who looks like they live in a happy life.

Speaker 2: 13:20

You know, she has got. She had a happy or harmonious, let's say, co parent in situation with her ex she had. She seems to be married to Travis. They seem to really love each other and there's a lot of intimacy and closeness there and companionship and partnership and family and joy. She almost just seems like joyful and I don't know, she seems to have a lot of she's juicy, you know, because really at the end of the day remember, juicy is about, it's about living your own life right, it's about your juices.

Speaker 2: 13:59

And so for me the burnout is a signal of like. I think we burn out. I think probably the one no scientific fucking backing on this at all, this is just my bold opinion that we burn out when we don't live a life that's true to ourselves. I think not living a life true to ourselves or doing things are out of alignment of ourselves is one of the biggest indicators to burn in out. And when you're neuro spicy you do that more than you realize. Because the entire world is built, or everyone, it's happened to everyone to be fair, but the entire world is built in a way, constructed in a way socially, that does not honor our humanity, so that in and of itself there's nothing that's going to burn us out, man, unless, unless we prop ourselves up with toxins or we know that will catch up with you eventually anyway.

Speaker 1: 14:58

So on the 22nd of October 2021, so two years ago, I think this is when Travis and Courtney were just getting together I wrote this piece. I just remembered I wrote this piece called the world fucked public figure and it says in a world of faux sex and heavily manicured women in the public eye, I really welcome this new era for Courtney Kardashian. This is a well fucked woman. You can taste the truth of it in your own body watching the way her man devours her and how much more open she feels, less rigid, controlled, more animal, and that the animal piece to me is juicy. I think, when I'm really honoring the fact that I am an animal with specific animal needs like food, rest, sex, all the things, I feel a lot more juicy. Right, I have taken care of the foundations.

Speaker 1: 15:48

Anyway, I go on to talk about. You know, I like the conditions. They're resourceful, they're masterfuls, they played the game of slavery to perfection and, let's be honest, they're the best in the world. What they do and what I don't love is that is that they are the representation of everything that is not embodied about the modern sexual woman. They have this heavily controlled image and it's sort of like this perfection, right. And then you have Courtney and Travis licking each other's faces dripping in juice and sex, and the world is disgusted.

Speaker 1: 16:21

They're like ugh God, like they were so accustomed to the manufactured, controlled sexuality of a woman the actual hunger and the dripping juice on her face, and I think that she's given up some of her status in the world to have it to be it.

Speaker 2: 16:43

Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1: 16:43

Right, it's a fence people, but she's like my soul is free when I don't speak to any of you because I'm just being me.

Speaker 2: 16:56

Absolutely freaking, literally. And also, I want to just say that her and Travis's way of being with each other isn't necessarily my personal cup of tea either, right, right, but that's my shit, right. That doesn't become a thing of. Oh my God, you know fucking hell, why are they licking each other's faces and all that kind of so there's something about that that is important, I think, because it's not everything has to be for us. But you do want to check your responses when something isn't what you do with that discomfort, right? And also, I want to just add further to that I love what you wrote there.

Speaker 2: 17:39

It's bang on as far as I'm concerned, when I watch the Kardashians, what I very rarely see, interestingly enough, is any sort of feminine energy. Very little, yeah, and I see as hustle, push, drive, push, make you know, whether it's in their dating world, in their life, in their holiday, in their everything just feels a bit like not, there's no receptivity. I don't get receptivity. I don't get trust. I don't get you know, I get control and cultivation constantly. And what you see with cool and I think also with Kylie actually, I see, I see the feminine energy in Kylie too is that it's just like less control. More openness, more like the energy is more yieldy.

Speaker 2: 18:39

Right, so I'm not talking yeah, not talking here about femininity. I'm not talking about what's the what's the freaking like socially constructed norms of what is feminine and what isn't feminine. They wear lots of dresses, the tits rolls out, blah, blah, blah. We've got it with curvy. I'm not talking about that. That's performing as far as I'm concerned. That's performing feminine.

Speaker 1: 19:00

Yes, I don't know what the language is on tony, but different. I'd call it like I'd call it that manufactured and.

Speaker 2: 19:06

Manipulating Because I used to do that when I was younger I used to do that and that was a straight manipulation, like I'm not saying because of how you dress, because it's not the outfit, it's just where you're coming from. It's almost like wielding your woman-ness as a weapon.

Speaker 1: 19:25

I think it takes a lot of work to look like that. It's a very cultivated image. I get this image actually in a factory line. It is a factory line. Have you seen everyone? Yeah, it's that factory line. Everybody looks the same. It has me think of in the context of the conversation we've had today, if you bring it back to, if we're not on the factory line, then what are we on? I see, oh yeah, it's all about the factory, it's all about the factory.

Speaker 1: 20:07

All I can see in my head is like you know how? I don't know how much you know, you've explored this, but I've had this kind of fascination over the years with top soil and soil and the way that we've no, not at all. So you know, for any of my soil experts out there, I apologize if I've got any facts incorrect, but basically a lot of the reason we don't have nutritious things growing in the ground anymore is because we've destroyed the top soil, which is the soil at the top that you need to truly create fertile conditions for things to grow in a nutritious manner vegetables, for example and the reason we've destroyed the top soil is because soil needs years off in order to replenish itself. But we don't do that. We just, every year, farm the same piece of land, and so in specific kind of agricultural, there's a lot of this coming back, these replenishment cycles in agriculture. There's a lot of farmers that do already do this, but you need an enormous amount of land and you need to be willing to let the soil rest and have its years off, and that's how you create this soil, and most of the world's soil is destroyed because of our inability to let it rest. And so when I think of us getting off the farming.

Speaker 1: 21:28

That's an amazing documentary about this. Oh, I wrote a post on it years ago. I have to see if I can dig it out. We could put it in the show notes. It's like absolutely gorgeous work being done and it is truly the true honouring of the feminine in nature. And if we apply that to us as a human being and a human body and we're also women right.

Speaker 1: 21:54

The image I have, which is the opposite of the factory line, is I'm imagining like sort of being in the dirt and the mud and I'm seeing tears and I'm seeing crying and I'm seeing release and I'm seeing letting go and I'm seeing space to be in the down seasons of life and in the nonproductive seasons of life and in the feeling stages of life where there is nothing to say, there is nothing to do. You are lost, you don't know what's next. You do need to just be with yourself and wait for the system to fill back up and then to find that inspiration again, find the flow, find the next thing. It's a cycle.

Speaker 2: 22:41

It's a cycle. It's a cycle. Life is a cycle with cyclical beings. This is so good because it's like it's good, and it also makes me feel quite sad, actually, what you just shared. I didn't know that about soil, I'm not surprised I've got to find the documentary.

Speaker 1: 23:01

You would love it.

Speaker 2: 23:02

I love it Because of the way my brain works. It's the same thing. It's that whole. How we do one thing is how we do everything. So it's this thing like, oh really, oh really, liv, I'm so surprised that humans can't be fucking bothered to wait for the sword to replenish itself because they need to produce, produce, produce, produce, make it happen, happen constantly, consistently. Consistency is key. Consistency is key. Success, consistency, consistency is key. I'm like fuck off.

Speaker 2: 23:32

It's so unnatural. It's the same things always, everywhere, in every industry, the same goddamn things, which is why, for me, it's getting peeling all the way back to the root of the energy behind the mindset. Right, Like, basically, that's how I see it, that's how I see everything, but it makes me upset. It makes me really upset because we should be taking our cues from nature. We should be working with nature, not dominating it, right and extracting from it and consuming it, devouring fuck, consuming, devouring in it right to depletion, and so, therefore, I am my mad mind. There's a very clear link between that and us going. I don't know how to stop.

Speaker 1: 24:28

I want to stop. It's so hard for me to stop.

Speaker 2: 24:31

Yeah, it ain't on you, it ain't just on you. Like, there's a reason for this. There's not just about your failings as a human being.

Speaker 1: 24:42

I'm so excited to just say this one thing on the back of what you just said.

Speaker 2: 24:47

It's just like really good, I hope you remember it.

Speaker 1: 24:49

I do, I remember it. It's gone off like a light bar in my head. So I want to talk about consistency for a minute, because I think that you know something I love to talk about a lot is dating, currently dating, single, looking for love and doing a lot of self-reflection around this, like who have I become? What do I really want? Now I've also taught a lot about this. I've taught a lot about our desire and you know how we show up as women and yada yada.

Speaker 1: 25:23

So, anyway, early this year I started to sort of date more seriously again and I had this experience with this man where, upon reflection, the thing I really appreciate about him was that he was courageous. And why this matters is because, at any other time, what I would have wanted to value is the top thing in equality and a man would have been consistency. Oh, man has to be consistent. If he's not consistent, he's not into you. If he's not, this he's not. And I learned in this interaction with this really like wonderful man. I was like no, it wasn't the consistency.

Speaker 1: 26:08

I would say that he was probably I mean, inconsistently consistent, like AKA, a human being living his life right, and I realized that the thing that I needed at the time was a courageous man. I needed a man that was willing to or even even I didn't need it like to experience it was have a man who was willing to really see me, meet me, play with me, go there with me, have the conversation with me. It really changed something deep for me and I realized that in the times where I have felt a lot of consistency from a man, I'm like that actually felt like they were sort of at effect of their behavior. They were affecting consistency to potentially manipulate an outcome. I don't know if they're actually being true to who they were and I so much more would rather have someone who's like, busy with their life and honest about where they are, and not consistent in the traditional way of like. If a man's into you, he'll show up in this way and courageous and honest. To me that's fertile fucking soil.

Speaker 2: 27:17

It's a real person. That's a real person. It's a real fucking person. He's what he is.

Speaker 1: 27:20

Yes.

Speaker 2: 27:22

I want a real person.

Speaker 1: 27:23

You were saying that, like when you were saying about consistency. I think in the I've certainly been sort of taught this in the personal development world that consistency looks like it feels so fucking vanilla and white and like it looks like a train and it's one thing after the other and it's like no, let's fucking completely reframe that word.

Speaker 2: 27:47

It's not, I'm not, I'm not consistent. I've never been consistent.

Speaker 1: 27:51

Yes neither have I. It's not my nature.

Speaker 2: 27:52

Right, my nature, my true nature, is flaky as fuck, and even to say that is a bit judgy, but I don't mind that word, that's why I'm saying it, but I know that obviously triggers people, whatever.

Speaker 1: 28:04

Well, how do you define it, cause I think people would like to know.

Speaker 2: 28:06

Well, I was going to say I'm consistent in my inconsistency. Yes, that's what I'm consistent. You can rely on me for that. So how would you define consistency? Is that kind of doing the same thing repeatedly or something like that, right? And I do think some people are naturally consistent.

Speaker 2: 28:25

So the other thing about this is like I like human design, like all sorts of things. Right, I like human design, which is a whole kind of system that's quite complex. So look it up if you're interested. But what I love about human design is that it has so many variables and nuances in it in terms of who we are as human beings and differences, right. And it has things in there that I feel like without judgment. So there are things in your design, in your chart, that are like some people are more consistent and some people are not consistent.

Speaker 2: 29:00

It's not better or worse, or right or wrong or good or bad, it's just because that's what I think the reality is of a lot of things. It's like well, some people are like this and some people are like that. We don't have to have it as a hierarchy, but it's when you now make one better than the other and one value, and then people subconsciously feel like well, we need to be this one because this one's good and that one is bad. And also then society is set up in a way that I suppose if you're inconsistent, that could have some negative consequences. Do you know what I mean? Systemically, you might fall through things, but and I think more importantly than that internalize some kind of low self-esteem off the back of that right that there's some. You have some sort of lower worth because of that. So the minute you can call bullshit on all of that, you can get on with just being who you are. I love that, even when I said that I'm like and it's as simple as that. It's not as simple as that, but that's the gist of it. But, oh my God, how many years Do you know, how much effort, do you know, how much money I've spent actually, furthermore, having to break down, oh my God, so deeply entrenched bodily patterns in my own body of trying to live in a way that is nothing to do with me. Nothing to do with me. Like, I don't need that level of consistency Now, if I find it quite pressurized and obligatio, it's just not my thing. Again, if we unhook from some of these things, I'll question them first, I suppose then unhook, then we can get about knowing what actually does matter for us and live in accordance to that right.

Speaker 2: 30:44

Some people are consistent, like I said, and good for them. More power to them, because that's quite useful. There are certain I don't know roles. I'm just thinking about work. If you have a team, there's gonna be certain roles within the team that you would want someone to be. You would want your consistent people to be on right. So consistent means acting or done in the same way over time, especially so as to be fair or accurate, not containing any logical contradictions. I'm literally not wide that way. I'm literally not wide that way. I am random as hell and actually don't think that's a problem unless you make it one right.

Speaker 1: 31:36

I was thinking that I feel that a topic emerging for us to do on a future episode around the importance of structure and systems for beings like us, sort of non-conventional beings, like I think we should absolutely touch that because I think we also have a lot of skill in that area as well, and it's not about, like, not having things that support us to be consistent. Consistent rabbit is consistent, and like I think the thing I'm taking away from what we're saying and hearing you say is, like, if consistency, if being consistent, isn't a true behavior born from, it's interesting. How did you find this?

Speaker 2: 32:33

Well, there are things that there are places where I am consistent right so and there's places where everyone is consistent in something. So, like I'm consistent in my journaling practice. That doesn't mean every day I journal and every day it's like the same thing, but it's just that will happen, because it has to happen, because it feels like something I have to do, I enjoy doing it, I need it, so I think there's something around the clues. So, as a coach, if somebody wanted to be more consistent let's say that was the thing they want to work on and they didn't feel very consistent, I would draw their attention to where they already were consistent, first of all, because there's always places, and then I would look at what we can learn from those places where they're already consistent, which tells us about potentially what they need and stuff.

Speaker 2: 33:35

But I agree, I think it'd be good because I think sometimes people will make because I own this aspect of me and then I do also hear from people that I can hear like there's a lot of assumptions they've made, like I don't have structure or I don't have and actually I do, but it's not stifling and it's not bullshit, that's been given to me by some man somewhere. Do you know what I mean from the fucking 50s or something? Because I'm not trying to live that life right. So there's just so many more interesting. Like it's like nature, it's all just nature for me. Like, where is what's the consistency in nature?

Speaker 1: 34:18

That's it nature growing Like. I use the example of the early days of meeting someone and dating right, you want to. There's a spark, you want it to grow. How do you create the conditions for that spark to grow? Do you start being a perfect being? Does that last right when you're like, oh, I'm going to show you my like perfect, my perfect, polished presentation, or do you actually like? You know, I'm really playing this dance right now, really showing up as honestly as possible exactly where I am not holding someone else to a different standard than I hold myself, like holding myself in the way I want to hold myself, and that's with a lot of grace to be a human and so knowing that also, I'm not the one that has to control it. I think so many people enter into relationships with so much will to make something happen and keep it alive that the other person just fucking gets recruited and the next thing you know they're in a relationship.

Speaker 2: 35:15

Yeah, and it could be any one.

Speaker 1: 35:17

I let this actually co-creation, the co-creation of a thing that is held by two people and you are coming together to grow something together is. It takes me all the way back to the soil metaphor of like the ingredients you need In order for something to grow. It takes me all the back to the thing you said when we were talking about having it and you were saying, like, in order to have it like, your system needs to be a place where it can actually be had right, like your actual vessel system, body needs to be ready and available to receive the thing that you want and that takes work and that takes growth. So I'm getting this real metaphor of nature. I'm getting this real. I'm really feeling the energy of growing. I think the feminine energy is the thing that has things truly grow at the right time, in its right pace, with a lot of power. Think about like weeds coming up through concrete.

Speaker 2: 36:18

Exactly, Exactly, and I agree with all of that, and I also am aware that the bigger conditions are not created for that. Any of that's happened, right? So, even like in organizations, I've really noticed how much they've changed over the years, like from working in the night 20 years ago or so and then over the years working with them, all industries there's no fucking time, babe. They are all doing way too much. It is ridiculous, right? They're bringing people like us to do stuff that requires, like, some high level thinking. High level thinking requires space. Thank God, no space.

Speaker 1: 37:16

None.

Speaker 2: 37:17

Like. I'm not talking about having ridiculous amounts and stuff. I always believe it needs to be reliable to the environment, but there's something about the environment that in and of itself, is like you can't like it's, you haven't got time, there's no time for people to do anything with each other or to speak to each other, and so, and it's just the pace, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then I can just see how that goes everywhere, like then at home at school. I told you my niece is I don't know. It might have told you when I went to my niece's assembly a while back when she won something.

Speaker 2: 37:52

One of their school values is urgency, urgency. I'm sitting there like, oh my, how is that a value? That is terrible value. And then some little boy won something for urgency. It was literally like I was so conflicted I didn't want to clap for it, but I wanted to clap for the little boy and it was like this is something like we're awarding him this thing for urgency because we've got lots to do.

Speaker 2: 38:21

It's just like, oh my gosh, you know a school value. So it's wider. I know like it's terrible, right, those wider conditions are not. So it's a why I'm saying this. I'm not saying this is in like, so there's nothing you can do about it. Keep learning the fuck out, good luck. No, the reason why I'm saying it is because burnout right. So even to do some of this stuff we're talking about requires we're going against the grain. We're going against the grain to do it, so that in and of itself is an extra load on your that you're carrying around all the time, because if you don't, you know that you run the risk of being swept away with all the other craziness. Yeah, it's relentlessly coming at you 24 fucking seven.

Speaker 1: 39:21

I mean it's so interesting you bring up values because I actually had someone ask my niece's and nephews tonight what are their school values and see if they know I'm super curious to see what is being encouraged Like. What's the invitation, what are they learning as a value for how, this particular structure of their lives, how do they show up in this particular institution or structure of school? So that's I'm like super curious. But in general, I think that you know, our values contrast, the unconscious, the influence our behavior, our relationships, our choices, enormously Absolutely Right. Our you know, my behavior cycles in the last few weeks, you know, will show me what I value. Right now.

Speaker 1: 40:17

I'm finding this conflict currently in my life where I have all these things I really care about and they're all kind of flowing on and asking a lot of me and I don't want to sacrifice my life. I value living my life greatly and so that value of wanting to live fully is at odds with my value of well. I want there, without showing the details of it, a very, very deep nutrition, health, hormonal repair, recovery journey. That is the deepest I've ever gone with my health. And so I've got this life, I want to live and I've got all this exciting stuff happening. I'm like finally going to French school. I'm learning French for the first time, even though I've tried many times. It's happening and Lola and I have also been doing it together, which has been super fun. Sorry, throwing you in there.

Speaker 1: 41:18

Which has been super fun, and I've been finding all this connection. I'm also just loving my life in Paris and just really starting to turn a corner there. It feels like it's just getting going. This life of the last three years I've been building and sort of laying the roots and the foundation and the soil for starting to really pop. I'm in this big creation process with my work. I'm like teaching this new program. I'm loving that. It's such a creative project for me. I'm loving who I'm working with. I'm also just, you know, business as usual, and it's a lot of stuff. It's even I say that, oh my God, that is a lot.

Speaker 2: 41:57

I feel tired even just hearing Hearing about.

Speaker 1: 42:00

What was I tired? I still think that I shouldn't be this tired yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:06

You know, when you said, oh God, wasn't so bad.

Speaker 1: 42:10

Classic Wow, it's just values. It's going to go back to values. You're going to go back to values.

Speaker 2: 42:21

I was like yeah, yeah, yeah, Go on.

Speaker 1: 42:23

James, I was going to say that when I, when I slow down, I can see that I value a lot of things right now and there are some that are more important than others, and that does help me make choices in my life that feel disappointing to other parts of me that just want to have a great time and keep going and not stop and like never put it down. I do value deeply, like long-term health and actually being okay and actually being here for a long time and actually reducing stress and reducing all the extra that comes with the override. So that's what I was going to say there are some values that are more important than others and I think it's a constant conversation between those parts.

Speaker 2: 43:09

Absolutely, and situation, specific time, specific certain times of your life, like it's a dynamic, moving thing. When you said that about, though, looking back over the last couple of weeks and I can look at what I value, I think I want to just make a distinction between value and what's being honored, because for me they're a bit different, because when you said that and I look back and I feel, oh my God, I'd say over the last couple of weeks, looking back at my life, I'd say that I valued productivity.

Speaker 2: 43:43

I do not value productivity. I do not. Yeah, there's not a value I hold. I value, like progress, and I was like no, no, I know, right, I don't want to honor it a lot, so I think that's a really useful thing to do that, though, to look back and be like oh, if I look at my life, what does it look like? I value.

Speaker 2: 44:11

Because I think a lot of people do that. Obviously there's a mismatch, because a lot of people will say things like my family's the most. I mean I do all the time in workshops, right, so it's like my family's the most important thing my health, my family often those are the two things. I'm not getting a lot of you. What's getting a lot of your attention is work, stressy type stuff. I think the other thing about values is that you do need to. Yeah, I think that's also part of the burnout, isn't it? Yeah, that's the burnout, because my number one value is joy and I don't feel any connection to it whatsoever when I'm burning out, when I'm not in a not juicy state. No, it's not available.

Speaker 1: 44:58

Love that your top value is joy. Just love that so much, 100%. It's so true for you.

Speaker 2: 45:07

I feel it, and it's something that I felt like I had to fight for, sort of, because I think I had a lot of judgment about it. But the reality of it is I like to have a good time, I like to have a lot of fun, and also that what that fun might look like, it's about what's fun to me, you know, and also joy is a massive motivator to me and I get a lot done.

Speaker 1: 45:30

So maybe go back to something else we said earlier.

Speaker 2: 45:32

Yeah, I can do a lot from joy and that's what I suppose I'm trying to work to do more of. So there you go, it's a nice little bit of a learning for myself there.

Speaker 1: 45:43

Well, it reminds me of when, in an earlier episode, we talked about you know, Lola and I's background, how we met each other.

Speaker 1: 45:51

I think back to our spark days when we worked together and when we were first to come in with friends and to me it sort of feels like looking back on that. Oh, it's that cosmic joy, partnership, Like we had such a laugh. I remember us going to the National Charity Awards. So I'm like black tie event super dry, Little drew respect super dry, and we were going to go to these fundraising events and you know the nonprofit world. It's a bit serious, bit dry and we really bought the juice. We bought the juice everywhere we went. I remember we found that restaurant.

Speaker 1: 46:38

We loved Bombing bomb, Bombing bomb. We were like, right, this is where all our staff dudes are going to be. That's our leaving. Do we're going to host our leaving? Do at Bombing bomb, we're going to go there. We're going to drink wine, we're going to get drunk after work. Like we really had the best time and I'm so grateful for you. I wouldn't have lasted as long as I did in that world without you. We just and I think that's testament to like be you are who you are in your world, Doesn't matter the context. Like you bring the thing that's you, you will bring that everywhere.

Speaker 2: 47:14

I love it. I love joy. It's important, and judged right Negatively often, I think in the sort of more mainstream world does not being sort of serious enough. You know I still take things seriously blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But joy, that's how I was built and I like it and I don't like it. When there's no joy about it, I don't do well, I want to say that there's something about, I suppose, when we know your values, when you done some value work, you've always got them to hold on to and to ask yourself like how can I? This is good I'm thinking about.

Speaker 2: 47:50

I've got a lot on my plate at the moment. I'm in a massive transition. I'm selling, in the final weeks of selling a property, and this kind of stuff is horrible. I hate it. For me it's horrible.

Speaker 2: 48:02

I've learned so much about myself. It's been so stressful. I felt levels of anxiety this year that I've never felt before in my life. I feel like a whole load of grief and stress from my childhood has decided to hitch a ride out at the same fucking time. It's just been like, oh my God, really it's been full on. I love it, but it has it's been full on.

Speaker 2: 48:29

We're moving, we've got renovations to do. It's a move that signals moving to care for my mum, who's getting older as well, and I've got a son who's got autism. Again, we are taking everything into our own hands because the system's not built for it. I'm not even going to fuck about there, we're going to do it our way. He will thrive.

Speaker 2: 48:50

All of that, though, takes a lot right, and then I'm just changing. I am changing like nothing else. There is nothing tickling to anymore from the past. I don't know. I'm just things are moving around too fast in my mind for me to keep up. So just feel along for the ride at the moment, and the dust will settle. But I'm stretched. I am stretched and pulled, and what's interesting in this is I'm saying this because you're talking about you've mentioned sacrifice a few times.

Speaker 2: 49:29

I don't like sacrifice. I don't like that word. It's a bit of a trickery word for me, because it feels like one of those words that I was raised with, that I should be doing, and I refuse. You know, it's like kind of energy for me. What I do like is choice. I do like choice and like even this morning I sat down to it takes a lot to just care for myself at the moment. So I've done all the bits to care for myself this morning.

Speaker 2: 49:58

I've gone for a walk and I've come back and then I've heard that you know that my mom was feeling a bit faint or whatever. And I went to do some work and I could set. As soon as I sat down I was like I can't, I have to go, I have to go and see her now. I'm not going to be okay until I go and see her with my own eyes. I knew she was okay, but I just I knew that what I needed was I need to see her with my own eyes and sort of satisfy my system that she is okay and that we are in the tail end of this move but also been holding this for too long.

Speaker 2: 50:31

This is what it is. This is such a big thing on my bandwidth and they all say moving house is stressful and we all know that and I don't really didn't really understand why. I'm like I don't understand why it's so stressful to be selling, but it's for me it's stressful because nothing is happening. That's what the stress is. The stress is there's a lot going on somewhere else behind the scenes in the ether. I don't really fully understand and it's just long. It's really long right, and you can't and your life's on hold and it's ugh. And what I felt really clearly this morning was like ugh.

Speaker 2: 51:13

I am in the caring stage of my life right now, you know, because I actually did some vision in this morning actually on my life and just checking in with stuff and what's important to me. You know I would have to keep an eye. What's important to me is my life going in the in the direction of what's important to me, and I realized how important it actually is for me at this stage of my life to care for my son and care for my mom, not and to care for myself, by the way, yeah, but not in a sacrificey way or anything like that. It is a quite a heavy load, but I do think how you carry the load matters. I think I lead the load more than carry it all by myself, but actually what's worse is not being able to do what I need to.

Speaker 2: 52:01

This is more for me at the moment, you know like anyway, I won't go into details there and so there are choices for me to make at the moment, not sacrifices, but choices in terms, because it's almost like you have this you have a limit on your capacity, your time, your weather. How do you want to spend it? What do you want to spend that doing? I'm still doing too much, don't get me wrong. And my body says I'm doing too much. My mind doesn't think I'm doing too much at all and yeah, but at some point I will have moved and then that will come off my sort of bandwidth, and then there's a transition as well. I don't know. There's just something for me around and I'm not alone, right, I'm not alone in this kind of thing in terms of parents getting older that you now have to factor in caring for somehow.

Speaker 2: 53:02

Whether you physically do it, whether you outsource it, even, I think even if you're not actively involved, it's still a toll. There's still an energetic something, is still some kind of stress on your plate, right, and then again so that just in of itself, but again trying to hold that in a way that's authentic to me, what I've lost in the last month is joy. You know, like there's still. There is joy to be had here still, even in all of this right, but that has definitely been what made the whole thing more stressful. So I'm now feeling like okay. My question for myself is you know, how can I? I know something like how can I have more joy in this process? Prioritize it, hold it, remember that I need you know.

Speaker 1: 53:55

I think that's such a beautiful kind of nuggets who complete with how everything we've talked about like how can we have more joy?

Speaker 2: 54:13

Good for the nervous system. That was one of those things that didn't need to be said.

Speaker 1: 54:33

So good, we're still getting used to ending it Like that. That's how we end it.

Speaker 2: 54:45

Awkwardly.

Speaker 1: 54:47

That's how it looks.

Speaker 2: 54:49

So awkward endings. My people. Yeah, thank you, yeah, thank you. I'm Waveinton, though one.

Speaker 1: 54:58

Bye. Okay, all right, bye everyone. Thanks so much, thanks so much.