Ep. 109: Should all Christians adopt?, with guest, Kelley Ramsey

Adoption can be a beautiful picture of the gospel -- we are welcomed as heirs into God's inheritance of love and eternal life. But does that mean all Christians should adopt? I chat with Kelley Ramsey, co-founder and visionary of Waiting in Hope Ministries, as we share some real talk on adoption. Working in a ministry focused on infertility, Kelley shares what role adoption should and could play in the lives of couples struggling to grow their family. We also talk about questions for adoption agencies, how to view a birthmother, and Christian adoption resources. Whether you are planning to adopt, discerning adoption, or are new to the topic, this episode will be helpful for you!

NOTE: This episode is appropriate for all audiences.

Resources:
Waiting in Hope -- Adoption: Where to Begin
Waiting in Hope -- Adoption: Should we adopt?
Waiting in Hope: 31 reflections for walking through infertility Book

Woven Well Podcast -- Ep. 12: Growing your Family
Woven Well Podcast -- Ep. 13: Growing Your Family through Adoption with Karla Thrasher

Register for Creighton Introductory Session:
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Should we adopt? 
Christian adoption
faith based adoption

Transcript

Caitlin: 0:06

Welcome to the Woven Well Podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Estes. I'm a certified fertility care practitioner with a master of divinity degree. Each episode will cover a topic that helps educate and empower you and your fertility while honoring the deep connection your fertility has with your faith. Let's get started. I'm so excited to share today's guest and topic with you. Some of you may know that I worked for several years at a Christian adoption and orphan care ministry. I got to see up close the need and the impact of adoption and the gifts and the struggles that are involved. At Woven Well, we talk all about fertility, but there are many ways to grow your family. You may be considering adoption or wondering if it could be right for you. And that's what we're going to talk about today with our guest, Kelley Ramsey. Kelley is the co-founder and visionary behind Waiting in Hope Ministries, a national biblical infertility support ministry and nonprofit , which aims to encourage, support, and embrace those struggling through the grief of difficulty conceiving. Kelley and her husband Justin experience their own journey through infertility before welcoming three sons, two biologically, and one just last year through adoption. It was through the adoption world that I met her several years ago, and I'm so looking forward to being able to talk about this topic with y'all today. Kelley, welcome to the show.

Kelley Ramsey: 1:31

Thanks for having me.

Caitlin: 1:33

I'm so glad that you're here. And I know that I just gave a quick overview of your ministry, but why don't you share a bit more about who you all serve and what you do to support couples?

Kelley Ramsey: 1:43

Yeah. Waiting in Hope Ministries was really created through our own struggle and our own difficulty conceiving and realizing we had no support. So our goal really is to encourage, equip, and support those going through infertility and the grief of trying to conceive or miscarriage or adoption or delayed waiting, whatever it may be for you. But the goal is to partner with local churches, to be partnerships for them to provide resources like support groups and things like that. We have online options and different things like that. And then the Waiting in Hope book that we wrote and released last year.

Caitlin: 2:19

Yeah, I've talked with many couples who have been a part of what you do. I got to participate in one of your conferences several years ago, and I love the ministry that you all have. I think it's really important in our world and in the time in our world that we're in right now too.

Kelley Ramsey: 2:36

Yeah, thank you.

Caitlin: 2:37

The couples you work with are all walking through their own paths through infertility. Some are considering adoption, others are not. Even outside of the infertility community, many Christian families wrestle with that question at some point in their life , in their marriage, like , should we pursue adoption? So I'm interested in hearing what your counsel would be: you know, should every couple consider adoption?

Kelley Ramsey: 3:02

"Consider" is the great word there. And so , we had a pastor who used to say, you're either going, helping, or praying. And that's for missions, but I consider that to be the same thing with adoptions. So you are either going to adopt, you're going to help someone support adoption, or you're going to be praying for adoption. And that's part of us that's biblical of caring and loving the orphan and, and feeling called for that. But it does not mean that every one of us is called to adoption. And I think we feel guilt for that or we feel shame that we should, or that's a great easier answer, I think is the generalized feel of it. But it's not. And I think, for a lot of the women and couples we deal, we , you know , we help support, they're like, they hear it a lot that they should adopt, which is not okay because they haven't dealt with their infertility, number one. They haven't healed from it, grieved from it, spent time sitting in it and healing. And that's not fair to move forward into adoption without taking care of some of those fundamental grieving misconceptions and grieving the heart behind it. You know, an adopted child is not going to heal what you have from infertility. It's not going to heal the hole of having a biological child. It's not going to heal if you feel called to make a child from your husband and yourself. It is a very different calling. And so my husband and I both came into marriage wanting to adopt. And so that was a lot easier for us, because we just didn't know. We knew we were going to, if God allowed it, we just didn't know when . And so in my own infertility, I kept trying to take control a few times and like, okay, well , we'll adopt now. And the Lord was like, no, this like shutting that door. I'm closing that door. But I think consider, yes. Should every couple adopt? No.

Caitlin: 5:10

And I appreciate you speaking to that guilt that can sometimes creep in in that scenario, because we do hear pastors or others who we respect say that we should consider adoption, and we think that means that we should adopt. But you are distinguishing there between the call to be aware of adoption and support adoption, maybe through prayer versus the call to actually adopt yourselves. And there is a distinction there. I do think it's really important. And you're also giving that freedom to say that's okay, and you are still honoring the Lord. You are still a God honoring family, you name it, whether or not your family actually adopts or not. And I agree with you. I think God will make it very clear and God will open doors or close doors for whether or not you should adopt and in what season. So as you said, you all both felt called to adoption. But the door didn't actually open until the time was specifically right for you all.

Kelley Ramsey: 6:13

Yeah. Until it was our child. I mean, we waited, we were an adoptive family waiting for over two years and to the point where my older sons and my husband and I were like, maybe this might be done. Like maybe, you know, because they were getting further and further and older and older. And the Lord was like, Nope . When he opened it, he was like, this is your, this is your baby that I've had you waiting for. This is your, your son and it makes sense now. It didn't make sense then.

Caitlin: 6:44

I actually think that that connects with what you were mentioning earlier, like the need to grieve that infertility and that process. So for couples who are struggling to conceive, it may be tempting to think, "Hey, adoption would get rid of this pain. Adoption would help this not be so difficult." But as you're saying, it is a very specific calling and you have to make sure to walk through that yourself as a couple and find that healing through Christ before you can open your heart and open your family in that way. So I agree with you and I appreciate you sharing that for sure.

Kelley Ramsey: 7:22

Yeah, you're right. I mean the, the processing of our infertility grief has to come first. Like it can't be a oh A didn't work out, so this is option B. Mm . And you know, we write about that in our curriculum that our groups do and in our, in our book, because just because A didn't work out, it doesn't mean it's your B choice. God may use infertility to make it your eight choice . But that baby will always be choice number one when you get to it. And so it just sometimes takes us a while to weave through. You know, I think, I think a lot of people, and the church doesn't do the best job at this. And they're loving trying to help us conversations. It makes it sound like adoption is a solution and either that it's choice B or that it's a solution for infertility, which it's not. Like we said, like I said earlier, like it can't heal those holes that are meant to either be healed by the Lord or meant to be filled by something else. And so an adoptive baby can never fill that hole that you have if you haven't grieved it for a biological child. And that baby has its own attachment and its own trauma and its own issues without us adding any additional feelings and hurt and pain and trauma to it. And so I don't want to say that to make , make people scared of adoption, because adoption is beautiful and we have seen God move in mighty ways and intimate like sweet details with our birth mom and our, and our adopted son. And it has been incredible to be in the process, but it has also been its own long process.

Caitlin: 9:20

Yeah .

Kelley Ramsey: 9:20

And so I think, you know, for it to be the bandaid solution for everyone is why I say no, because you very much have to feel called to it.

Caitlin: 9:31

You know, we talk a lot about how in just the medical world, a lot of times bandaid solutions are offered as quick fixes, but they never actually fix anything. So what do you know, that applies here as well. And thinking that adoption is going to be a bandaid solution is a total misunderstanding of adoption in and of itself and also what God can do in you in this moment. As you mentioned, God wants to heal that hole, heal that pain. And we have to come to him with that open heart and that openness and that brokenness of, God, I actually can't do this. There is nothing that I can do that would make this happen. And that is so painful and that is so hard. And it doesn't matter if it's a medical, like biological route or the route of adoption. Like this is in your hands and I can trust you with my future and the makeup of my family. And I think when we do that, when we have that approach, then whatever the path ends up being, we will have that peaceful journey. We will have that presence of God, which will get , can get us through anything.

Kelley Ramsey: 10:47

Yeah. Yeah. We won't be grasping for control. Which is important, whether it's in infertility or adoption, because infertility has a lot of false feelings of control. And adoption can be similar because you're like, you know, filling out paperwork and you're doing steps. And once you're done with those steps, though, the control is gonzo and It's waiting on waiting. It's no longer two week waits. It's months on months. And sometimes you're like, then it's immediate you have 24 hours to decide. Yes. No. And if you feel like, like you have to know God's voice and discern where he's leading because sometimes those things come quick.

Caitlin: 11:32

That's such a good point. So

Kelley Ramsey: 11:34

It's a rollercoaster. Yeah,

Caitlin: 11:35

Exactly. And so knowing beforehand if this is where God is calling you, obviously sounds extremely important. So I would love to hear from you, like, do you have tips on how you can discern whether or not adoption is right for you?

Kelley Ramsey: 11:50

Yeah. So, hmm . Hmm . I , we have some great like Adoption 101 blog posts on our website and there are great resources within the blog, but I think the top like five things to guide you in this decision really come down to, you know, are you and your husband on the same page? Are you both seeking the Lord like we've talked about? Are you both desiring his will over whatever you think you're supposed to be doing? Are you trusting in the Lord? And then like we said, have you processed infertility? Have you been a part of any way to process it? Have you , you know , spoken to a counselor or been through a support group or whatever it may be to make sure that those things aren't deep down within and kind of come out continually. And then realizing, do you see adoption as second rate, like we just talked about as your second choice or your second option? Because then a baby should never be a second. And then have you weighed the investment? So the financial commitment, the time commitment, the, are you so financially strained already from infertility, that that would be a stretch and not at all what God would have you do to be a good steward. And so those are really the most important things. And then where's your heart in this? Do you realize that adoption is a beautiful path that's grace filled , that is representation of the gospel, that is showing the world and that child Jesus and giving yourself grace to realize it's not for everyone and that's okay?

Caitlin: 13:33

Absolutely. Absolutely. I appreciate about those tips that you included the beautiful and the hard, because anyone who knows anything about adoption knows that it is both beautiful and extremely, extremely hard. A lot of times we want adoption to be the easy option.

Kelley Ramsey: 13:54

Yeah .

Caitlin: 13:54

Sometimes we're tricked into thinking it is the easy option, but there really is not an easy option. And whatever path you go, there are going to be challenges there. And that's not to say to feel overwhelmed or scared, but it's just saying, we have to rely on the Lord. No matter what our journey looks like, we need God, we cannot do it ourselves. But when we have that relationship, then we can, like we said earlier, experience that peace and God will provide for us. Whether it is finances, whether it is the emotional trauma that we've walked through or the difficulty in explaining to family members what adoption is, or you name it. I mean, there are lots of different things, but God will give us those resources. Now practically resources are very important. There, any couple who's going to pursue adoption is going to need a lot of them. So I , are there any resources that you'd recommend for some of those different challenges that come up along the way?

Kelley Ramsey: 14:55

Yeah, so obviously adoption agencies are very . . . Choose wisely and do ask lots of interviewing questions. Do your research. Talk to a lot of people who have adopted And get their, you know, high level things that they wish they would've known, wish they wouldn't have known, why they liked their agency, why they didn't. Those kinds of things. Number, you know, two, I would say go read those 101 blog posts. Decide if that's even something, because it's talking about are you discerning? Are you asking these questions? Talk to your husband about these questions and see where you guys are at. And then I would say our, our Waiting in Hope book, the devotional is really good because it is going to go through the emotional, the hard life, practical questions, the spiritual, and the relational. And it really will start you on the road of healing. Because we talk about every topic and every important discussion. It's what I would've wanted initially when I started going through infertility and even throughout it. Like, I think you can pick it up at any time . So I think those are the biggest resources. I think for adoption, it's really asking those questions that you'll see of like, where's my heart in this? And why am I wanting to do this? Is it to solve the infertility issue and to give me a baby? Or is it because my heart is really desiring to see the gospel lived out?

Caitlin: 16:29

Great tips. One of the tips you gave was about choosing an adoption agency. And I will just say really quickly that some of the things to consider when you're looking at an adoption agency, a lot of times we think about are they upfront with how much it's going to cost?

Kelley Ramsey: 16:45

Amen.

Caitlin: 16:46

And how quickly will we receive a placement? But there are other questions to think about. What is the support like through that process? How will they be there for you when you don't get a placement very quickly? What does that look like? Spiritual encouragement, practical support. And then after the adoption has happened, what does that support look l ike for the rest of that child's life? Is this an agency that is going to help you have a--placement is the term that's used in the adoption world--you know, to receive a placement and then great. Have a great rest of your life. Or are they going to be there for you with counseling and support and resources as long as you need it? Anyway, that's something I always like to mention, because that's a question we don't think about asking, but it makes a big difference.

Kelley Ramsey: 17:38

And for me, our, our heart was how are they going to care for the other side of this placement in adoption? Because yes, we may have a wonderful child and baby, but that birth mom is still a part of his life. If she chooses to be with an open or even semi-open. And so how are they loving and caring for her was a huge thing for us.

Caitlin: 18:03

And good for you all, because it's hard sometimes to think about the life and the love of the birth mother when you are so desperately wanting a child yourself or to grow your family through adoption. And sometimes the last person we're thinking about is that birth mother or the birth family. But also looking for an agency that talks openly about the birth mother and what that relationship is going to be like and gives suggestions and insight and experience in that way can be really important. Because just like we're talking about showing Jesus to that child, we're also living out that. You know , showing Jesus to that birth mother and birth family , who is entrusting these families with their flesh and blood. I mean, what a gift, but what a struggle for that birth mother who is having to make that choice for the good of their child for whatever reason may be happening in their own life. So absolutely. That's a really good word, a really good point there too. Well, Kelley, thank you so much for being on the show, sharing your guidance, your experience, your insight with us. I really appreciate it.

Kelley Ramsey: 19:13

It was a joy to be here.

Caitlin: 19:16

Adoption isn't for everyone, but if it's what God is calling your family to do , then he will provide again and again, we have other podcast episodes on adoption that I'll be sure to link in the show notes as well as maybe some of those blog posts and a link to the Waiting in Hope book that Kelley mentioned. As always, thanks so much for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be woven well.