Judgement vs. Support in the "AF"(Alcohol Free) Community, Season 3 Ep. 8

Living Alcohol Free like many things, is not a one size fits all approach. We started this podcast to show people that there are many ways to live a beautiful alcohol free life. We choose this somewhat controversial topic because we were disappointed with some of the judgment we'd seen recently in comments on Social Media regarding how people choose to live alcohol free. We wanted to address this for everyone starting out on this journey as we know there can be a lot of fear around the idea of giving up alcohol. We didn't want anyone considering an alcohol free lifestyle to be influenced by the opinion that it needs to be done a certain way to be the right way. What works for some does not work for all, so the best way is to find your own way! Find what works for you and what makes you feel good.  From time to time we can all fall victim to making judgements, but next time you do, stop and remind yourself that judgement is our inner voice whispering "You still have work to do my child". We are all on the say team in this space....."Team No Alcohol" and that's why it's important we support ALL the ways.

Recommended Meetings & Groups:
S.O.S Secular Organizations for Sobriety
SOS (sossobriety.org)
Recovery & Beyond
https://recovery-beyond.com/
Smart Recovery
https://smartrecovery.org/
Life Ring
Front Page - LifeRing Secular Recovery
Women for Sobriety
Home - Women for Sobriety
Moderation Management
Moderation Management Non-Profit for Self-Managed Alcohol Moderation

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**Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this episode are not professional or medical opinions. If you are struggling with an addiction please contact a medical professional for help.

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Transcript

Kelly: 0:02

Welcome to the LAF life podcast, a lifestyle podcast based on living alcohol free and a booze soaked world. My name is Kelly Evans and together with my friends, Tracey Djordjevic, and Lindsay Harik. We share uncensored. Unscripted real conversations about what our lives have been like since we ditched alcohol and how we got here by sharing our individual stories. We'll show you that there isn't just one way to do this, no matter where you are on your journey from sober, curious to years in recovery and everyone in between, you are welcome here, no judgment and a ton of support. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the LAF Life podcast. This is season three, episode eight. Our topic tonight is about judgment in this alcohol free world of ours. It's not a one size fits all thing, this alcohol free living. So we're going to chat with that. The girls are here and we have a guest host. Guess what, everybody? Mike's back. Hey guys,

Lindsey: 1:09

just like old times.

Tracey: 1:14

So Mike, while you were gone, we did a little spoof on the Charlie's angels as part of our marketing. And I was thinking. You could be our Charlie.

Mike: 1:24

Do I have to do the raspy voice? Yeah, I'm sure you could. I probably could.

Tracey: 1:30

Hello, angels. That's what I want to hear you say.

Kelly: 1:35

Yeah, so why don't we take the first 5 minutes or so, Mike, and you can talk about how much you've missed us.

Lindsey: 1:45

His face says it all.

Mike: 1:46

So what you're saying is we're gonna take several moments of silence and kidding. Of course. I missed,

Kelly: 1:53

we've missed you. Of course. I've missed you ladies. Of course. I've missed you. I've missed the fans. life's busy sometimes and my business. Have just gotten very busy. Yeah, so I'm focused a lot on that. Love that for you. That's great. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we chose this topic tonight, it was something that I've been thinking about. We're here. We are in season 3 of. The LAF life podcast and the original reason why we wanted to do this was to show that there isn't just a one size fits all. There isn't one way to live alcohol free. And I still see it sometimes I saw a little bit of judgment and comments and things like that on different posts. I found for the beginning for me, I didn't have much clarity on what would work for me, so I was just trying everything. I went to a 12 step meeting. I went to a different type of meeting. I sought out a therapist Facebook communities, things like that. What do you guys think about this topic?

Tracey: 2:53

Yeah, I think it's a little disappointing that people would judge. You look at if people are trying to diet or if people are trying to quit smoking, you wouldn't expect them to only do it one way. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. And anything else you have to find what works for you. We're all individuals and not 1 thing works for everybody and not everybody's story leading up to them living alcohol free is the same either. We've had many guests on this podcast, and every single 1 of them has a different and unique relationship with alcohol or did. And they all found their own path and their own way to recovery. So I think we have to give everybody grace in that. My story is different from Kelly's Kelly stories, different from Mike. So what worked for any 1 of us isn't going to necessarily work for all of us. And all of our relationships were different. We've had people on that had terrible withdrawal symptoms and went through. Terrible things when they quit, and there's some of us who have had none. So you can't look at every scenario. It's the same. And I think that. Instead of, I look at it as kind of judgment versus support we should be supporting one another because we're all heading in the same direction and had the same common goal to make a lifestyle change for ourselves to better our lives. Agree.

Lindsey: 4:18

I think, yeah, we're all on the same team, right? We're on team no alcohol. I just really feel like, I don't know, especially the comments on Facebook and stuff. If somebody is drinking kombucha out of a wine glass because they like the feeling of that and holding it, don't, write something I rude about how they're choosing to recover. There's no preferred way. If that doesn't work for you, then don't do it. But also don't judge or shame somebody else for doing it. Because we're all just trying not to have that drink.

Kelly: 4:54

Yeah, I think it perpetuates some shame, too, yeah. Yeah, like you're doing it wrong. If you're not doing it like me, or if you're not doing it like this organization told you to do, then you're doing it wrong. You know what? The only thing that could go wrong is if you decide to drink alcohol today, and then that's okay. If you do, you start again tomorrow. Or whenever you start again.

Tracey: 5:14

With the non alcohol beverages and stuff like that again, you have to know yourself and know your triggers and just whatever's your trigger doesn't mean it's my trigger or somebody else's trigger. If you're not comfortable, or that's not part of your lifestyle as living, alcohol free. That's fine. But that doesn't mean it has to be mine. I might be totally comfortable with that. Like Lynn said, maybe I want to drink a beverage of my choice that's alcohol free out of the wine glass because I like the feel of a wine glass in my hand. I love that. I haven't drank from a wine glass. That's not, don't I remember even when I had that convo. Yeah. And I, yeah, I don't care if every other people do and I don't like the taste. Like we went to a really cool restaurant, I think it's Winnipeg's best restaurant right now last night. And they have Nola. I've not been yet. Oh, we should go together. Okay. Okay. But they have a really funky mocktail list and they use the fake. I don't think I should call it fake. What should I call it? Non alcoholic gin. So I don't want to taste that, but I think that's amazing that they have that at restaurants. And the stores and I know we've got a really cool guest coming up. It's not for me because I do find it's too triggery. Maybe one day I'll try it, but I love that. It's part of the cool kids are into it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think, Mike?

Mike: 6:38

Listening to all three of you, my first thing would be as I'm not a Facebooker. Are people saying things to you guys indirectly, or are you meaning that in general?

Kelly: 6:46

In general, there's comments, actually somebody that we've mentioned on the podcast before, James Wanwick, I like the reels that he's making he posted something, it was directly about the 12 step program, but the comments on that were very people were very offended if the 12 step program did work for them and. He wasn't slamming it. He was actually saying the same thing that we're saying. There are other ways. There isn't just 1 way.

Mike: 7:17

Yeah, I think that 1 of the reasons why I'm not on social media is because. There's a lot of bullshit on there that people are pretty brave behind the keyboard and Whatever the hell they want And there's no real ramifications unless things like facebook decides your comments abusive or what have you but at the end of the day, I think a lot of the times Whether it's about alcohol or not in general. It's a reflection of how a person feels about themselves inside in relation to whatever they're commenting on.

Kelly: 7:51

That is sad. To me, it sounded like their own fear coming out.

Mike: 7:55

Yeah, it could for sure be. Absolutely. Yeah, it could be definitely like a detoxing type of thing that if I get it off my chest and say it here on Facebook world or wherever, maybe their mind starts going in the way of, Now I got to start considering what I've said and maybe make a change. But to criticize. Somebody for, drinking a kombucha or water or whatever out of a wine glass because they like the feeling of the wine glass to help them. Fuck off

Lindsey: 8:27

you said it best, Mike. Yeah. The wise words.

Kelly: 8:32

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you can't what's that saying? We learned in kindergarten, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. If you can't be encouraging and like Trace said, supportive, just leave it, just let them be, let them do them.

Mike: 8:50

What they're doing of how affecting you, how is it affecting you? Just play your own game. Piss off and play your own game. Life's hard enough as it is. You don't need some asshole. I'M swearing ran out of it, so I apologize to the listeners. Just, life's hard enough. The world's crazy. It's nuts. Yeah. Be nicer to each other. Yeah. I think that there's a lot to be said about that. There are people that aren't warranted the niceness, but for the most part, I think we all are, we're all going through our own stuff. 25, 50, 35, whatever, 40, 80, like

Kelly: 9:26

What are the numbers? Sorry. What are you talking about? That's not my bank code. No. Or there's no subliminal? What? No. 25. What were you talking about? Actually?

Mike: 9:37

Age, ages. Sorry? Ages. Ages. Oh, okay. It's like 25, 50, 35, 80, whatever. How old you are.

Kelly: 9:43

Sorry. Okay. Yeah.

Lindsey: 9:46

That's hilarious. It's not my bank code. Are you getting the winning lottery numbers or something? Yeah, I didn't know. Wait, say that again. I didn't know what was happening. Do you guys know what I struggle with still? And I know that I'm starting to become more open about it. But we talked about this like early on when we started the podcast and now that we're talking about judgment, I'm like, Ooh, I feel like I can be judgy when people are like, well, I smoke weed, but I don't drink or I do mushrooms and microdose. Or other things that I'm like, Oh, because at first I used to have the mentality like someone would say I'm sober and I'm like, no, you're not, you're still under the influence of a substance. But then I'm like, wait a minute. There was a lot of research and stuff about microdosing and I have to learn to let all of that go too. Because if someone is, I don't know how to say this properly even, but if somebody is using cannabis, microdosing, doing that kind of stuff, and it's really helping them, and they're not drinking alcohol. I should be more supportive of that, right? I think so., there's so much about that, something else I was thinking about for this episode was the labels. I don't like the labels as you all know, but like the word sober, the word alcoholic, the, sober curious, all of these little labels that we think we need. I would say, where did those beliefs come from about the plants and of course there's people that abuse it and it could have been part of their, drinking as well. But that's the thing. Everybody's so individual. I love that you're being so honest and that you're, opening your mind to other things. Yeah.

Tracey: 11:34

It's funny, Kel that you brought up the labeling because I wanted to touch on something we touched on in that episode to about attaching ourselves to people to things. And I think attaching ourselves to things is a very dangerous thing. And I want to speak to this in the way that people attach themselves to certain programs. Okay. Because they attach themselves to those programs. That's their livelihood, which I think is extremely dangerous for their recovery. For that reason, I think they need to be more open about the path to recovery than just that one thing.

Kelly: 12:15

I think it's a Lack of self trust. I saw that in myself. Remember when we talked about how I was saying I thought going to the yoga studio every day was keeping me? I feel like it's a similar thing. I didn't trust myself to do anything else. But yeah, there's an attachment and a lack of. Self trust, I think, maybe?

Lindsey: 12:32

I feel like that nails it. It's almost like you don't have the confidence yet to stand on your own two feet saying that you're alcohol free and you think it's the program or it's the thing that I'm doing that's keeping me from drinking. You're so heavily attached to it that you feel like If that didn't exist or went away or you didn't go, everything would just crumble. And to be fair, maybe in the beginning it would, right?

Kelly: 12:57

For sure. For sure. I think, yeah, my life was so regimented in the beginning, like what I did and the meetings I went to and all the things I did, so regimented because I didn't trust myself. Yeah. If I let things get chaotic again, then I'd fall back into it.

Lindsey: 13:12

And I think as you build that confidence by providing yourself with the evidence, right? The longer that you're living alcohol free, the longer you show up for yourself with yoga and, take care of your body, then you start to develop that confidence. And it's Hey. I am doing this. I am okay. Empowering yourself. You're empowering yourself. Yeah. And then you can detach from the things, but yeah, I don't know. I've seen some comments on Facebook that are really just snippy, like real snippy. We just, I do want to say I think that meetings are amazing. Yeah. And that sense of community. And I feel like what we do here is a meeting, like supporting each other and talking to each other. But I do have a list of other places that people can look for, in person meetings in wherever you might live. You might have, some of these meetings that you could look up. I went to an organization called SOS. I've never even heard of that. Yeah. I'm not sure if they're In Winnipeg right now, it's obviously all volunteer run. But anyway, but that's a national organization. S. O. S. There's 1 in 1. I know you're going to secular organizations for sobriety. Just for the listeners at home. Yes. Yes. Thank you. We have lots of Winnipeg listeners, but there's one here locally called recovery and beyond. Smart recovery life ring. I had never heard of this one, but it's a secular group provides as healthy network of peers focused on remaining abstinent from drugs and alcohol. There's one called W F S women for sobriety. Moderation, management so I don't know how I feel about that one. Ooh, yeah, let's leave that one out. Moderation, that's dangerous. It's a slippery slope. It's a slippery slope. And I've seen a lot of that.

Mike: 15:03

Hold on. What if moderation means... And I'm relating this to my own story. It's, it takes time to finally cut that cord or whatever it is. Maybe that's part of it. And I get where you're coming from Kel too. I do get it. Hey, if the message is, Hey, we're about, living an alcohol free life. But I think for me, it was not going out five nights a week, getting down to three to one to two weeks. Maybe that's what moderation means. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

Tracey: 15:34

And moderation may work for people. So we have to take that into consideration too, if we're being open and not judgmental.

Kelly: 15:43

But it is an addictive substance. So once you're addicted, like I was addicted, once you're addicted, that's how do you go back from that? And why would you want to keep something addictive in your life? It's scary to give it up right away. Oh, yeah.

Mike: 15:58

It's like a science experiment in the sense of you guys were talking about, you were doing yoga, Kelly. And, I don't remember Lindsay, what you said, but I was thinking, a person is trying to figure out what's going to get them through to the next day, which is the goal. If it's, Hey, I'm going to try a certain diet, or I'm going to try yoga, or I'm going to go routine. I know for me, walking. Walking and walking helped me through when COVID started was when I first started. It was like, I'm going to go for a hike every day. It's an hour. I'm going to be so tired that the last thing on my mind is, Oh yeah, let's go home and get drunk. Rested. I feel good. It's a process of what works for that day, that month, that week, whatever.

Kelly: 16:44

And just try everything. You're not going to know if you're like me and my hobby was drinking. I didn't know what I liked to do anymore. So that is the good thing about having the community, whether it's in person or online, is you get to see the other people that have a length of time behind them with what they're doing. Oh, she's going, that was a common theme. That's why I went to yoga, because so many people in recovery were going to yoga. So that's why I tried it. But I tried lots of things. Some things I didn't. I tried coloring books, for example. I saw a lot of people in the group were doing coloring. I did not stick with that. Look at what these people are doing. They're doing something that's keeping them away from alcohol. Try, just try something that kind of sparks a little interest. And one of the things I wanted to say about that is, when you're Making these decisions and whether you want to try an in person meeting and things like that, don't rule things out based on, maybe shame. So for me, I was so scared I was going to see somebody I knew at a meeting, right? But hey, guess what? If you see somebody you know at a recovery meeting, they're in the same boat as you and maybe you're going to be able to support each other. So it's hard, don't be afraid of that.

Mike: 17:56

That's like exercise too, though. It's hard at first, it takes time to build that courage and wear it. And you'll be surprised I ran into somebody who Tracey and I think you might know him too, Kelly, but and fuck this. He looks amazing. He's lost a lot of weight. Not a lot, but enough weight. And doesn't drink anymore. He was a bartender, as forever. And now he's doing his cannabis thing he works in the cannabis industry. And he never touched weed. Ever. It's amazing that I think if I ran into him at a meeting like that, I'd be like, holy cow, what the hell are you doing here? Judging? My response is judgment. What the hell are you doing here? So it's amazing that you just build up that courage, build up that mindset of. It's okay. Hey, I had a good run or whatever you want, having a good run, meaning I had a good drinking career, whatever you want to call it, I get together with guys all the time and there's still a bus by chops, when are you going to get off this whole non drinking thing? I go. Yeah. One day I might, you never know. And I just keep that illusion in their mind that you never know. You never know. And like I always said, I never know cause I don't know. But right now, if you ask me, I can't see

Lindsey: 19:08

why I'm in the same boat as you, Mike. That's exactly how I feel.

Mike: 19:12

I went to my best friend's wedding in September. And I tell you that was the closest I ever probably came. We were outside. It was beautiful right on the lake. And it was before we got the ceremony, before you go into the main room or whatever, the heavy drinking time and oh yeah. Drink cocktail hour pizza and I'm just like, ah, I'm eating. And all I saw, I don't even know why I saw Corona on ice. It was like the ice was,

Lindsey: 19:44

it was like a commercial.

Kelly: 19:45

Oh, so romantic. It was. Yeah, it was. And I was like, honestly, I had this conversation with myself. Maybe I should have one, but I've been there. But why do I need to have a what am I going to get out of having one? It's just one you with your buddies, the old time, the guys you grew up with and then I thought then I got to drive home and I played this back and forth. And then the dinner was over and the music started and Tracey can attest. I would be like the life of the party type of thing. Time to bust a move. Oh my god, I'm drunk. No one's dancing. Nobody is dancing. So I was like, fuck it. And I just went out there and I just started doing it all by myself. And people are like, so I didn't need a drink to do that. That's where I'm getting. That's awesome.

Lindsey: 20:34

I've had the zero percent Coronas. I love them. They taste, Mike, it tastes the same. For sure. I love it. When I went to Batula Lake with Richard, my man um, yeah, we got a lot to catch up on. Yeah, he was so thoughtful, asked what kind of drinks. Or beverages I would want to have and I love all the non alcoholic stuff and those Coronas, a cold one is 0%. I was like, this is fantastic. I'm sitting on the dock. I had no lime, but if you put a lime in, it would be the same. For me, I'd be like, you couldn't tell the difference was I hung over. No, I just felt so empowered. You know what I mean? And I was laughing so hard. We were being so silly. People on the beach must have thought we were hammered and we're just drinking all these non alcohol drinks.

Mike: 21:27

Maybe it's euphoric. It's euphoric.

Lindsey: 21:30

I don't know. Great. It was great. But for some people they would be like, I prefer real recovery. And I'm like okay. Wow. Like that's not very nice. First of all, like what define real recovery for you.

Kelly: 21:45

Everybody's individual. Yes.

Lindsey: 21:48

I have a point of view that I want to get your opinions on. And Mike, I don't know once I say this let me know what you think. Cause you were just telling us about this wedding that you were at. But when I first quit drinking alcohol, Well, maybe not at first, like a couple months in, like maybe six months in, I found myself to be acting internally, like the drink police, I was judging people, and counting their drinks and watching them change from the beginning of the evening to a sloppy drunken mess and just feeling totally disgusted and judging people Who drank the way that I used to and I don't know if it's because I saw myself From the other side, but I had to really learn to be like, whoa, It's not my place to judge people who are still drinking and I think maybe people who still drink alcohol maybe they fear People like us who don't, we are.

Tracey: 22:46

Yeah. But I think you just said it, Linds, you said what we were saying earlier. That you were feeling that way because of it was you deflecting onto them.

Lindsey: 22:57

You're probably right.

Tracey: 22:58

Yeah. Because you were seeing your old self in them. like you said. And I think that goes back to the fear thing. I wanted to mention 1 thing going back to the meetings for a second that also there are people out there that don't want to do their recovery in a group setting. I can go to addiction counseling or get other types of help as well.

Lindsey: 23:20

Mike's high fiving you.

Mike: 23:23

That's me. No, that was me. Sorry. Oh, okay.

Tracey: 23:26

Yeah, so I think it's really important to point that out too, that it doesn't have to be in a group setting either. People that are pushing that on to someone who is not comfortable with that format, again, it's not right. It's not right.

Lindsey: 23:39

And it won't work if it doesn't feel aligned with you. Exactly. That's not that's not gonna work.

Tracey: 23:44

Yeah, like anything else, even the person you choose to do your counseling with has to align with you. That's right. You have to be comfortable with them. Right just like for people going to these meetings, they have to find the meeting that's right for them or the meeting that has the group people that are right for them and they feel comfortable with.

Kelly: 24:05

Exactly. Yeah, for sure.

Mike: 24:08

And that's why you try things. Yeah, if it don't feel good Like a relationship, get the fuck out.

Kelly: 24:14

Yeah, use your intuition.

Mike: 24:16

Don't sit there and go I don't want to hurt feelings. Don't pussyfoot. Get out. It's not good for you. And then if you're not feeling good, you're in a potential to can I use the term fall off the wagon? And as much as I hate the cliche, no, but no, but I hate that term. It's just, you're, you may go back to where but yes, you can start over again, but it's just, if it ain't feeling good, say, look, I can't do this. It's not you, it's me, whatever you got to do to just. Yeah. Don't worry about the it's the judgment. It's all about the judgment. You man and yeah, man, do you? You that's the biggest thing that we don't do in this life is we don't do ourselves first Most of us think about well, what is so and so gonna think from our parents to whatever? Who cares? Really who cares? Yeah, you gotta be yourself. What good are you?

Kelly: 25:07

And that came up on the last episode or the two episodes ago, but being authentically you we were saying how it seems like so many of these stories that we hear. And I know for my individual story, it's not being our authentic selves that get us in trouble and get us turning to a substance like alcohol,

Mike: 25:28

I think too quitting alcohol is one thing, but also it's some sort of underlying, cry from your authentic self to say, just let me out of the bubble, man. I just want to show you what you're about. And for myself, I still get to that point of there's lots of things I got to do to get better for myself, not for anybody else's point of view, but things I want to do for myself to be my best self. I hope to get there one day, but alcohol sure as hell prolong that because, and I talked about this today with somebody and I can't remember who it was, but it was, I worked at a job. I hated to make money to support my lifestyle, big deal. You make six figures and you can go out on weekends and get drunk, but you're blowing all the money. Anyway, spending 500 bucks in a night, sometimes just on booze and shots and what, it's what are you doing, man? What are you doing? And thinking that's a quality of life. That's the sad part. Yeah. Yeah. Cause everybody's doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's doing it. Yeah. I gotta drive a certain car. I gotta, wear certain clothes and it's Oh, I got to work this job and make that money. And I hate the job, but what am I going to do to numb my hate drink or do cocaine or do whatever. Yeah. Holy cow. And I'm guilty of it. I lived it. It sucks. It friggin sucks.

Kelly: 26:55

And that's why I think, how Lynn's just said do these people think that we're judging them? And I can say for myself, I'm absolutely not because I was them. So I'm just on a different path now. But that was totally me. And I got reminders. I remember being at a Christmas party, my first Christmas. So I quit drinking in February. And The following December, and there were a bunch of couples and these young women were beautiful, beautifully dressed their Christmas sweaters and everything. And then the alcohol was flowing as it was with these groups of people. And then they started giving out shots and then they start spilling the shots while they're walking around them and then they've got red wine spilt on their beautiful Christmas sweater and then their makeup is a little smeared. Yeah. And I'm like, Oh my God, that was me, and I just had to see it and then have some compassion for how shitty they were going to feel in the morning. So no, I don't judge. I don't judge. I wish that more people knew that there's another way, because I know a lot of those people that I do see that are reminders are waking up and hating themselves the next morning like I did. And I guess that's why I do this is to show that there's another way and it's way better on the other side.

Lindsey: 28:08

I think to expect a little bit of discomfort. When we're saying, if something doesn't align with you, then just, walk away from it. But you know what? Really give things a good chance to figure out, if it's. You're feeling uncomfortable because of a change like the alcohol free space is growing. It's becoming normal, but this is still going against the societal grain a bit, when you're choosing not to consume alcohol. So you're going to have to expect a little bit of pushback, a little bit of discomfort, and that I want our listeners to know that is normal. You're not going to go into a situation and feel completely comfortable. and it might take a bit of time for you to experience different things before you figure out, okay, this is for me. Yeah, I just want people to know you're going to be a little bit uncomfortable.

Kelly: 29:03

Yeah. That's really good. And that's okay. I had to go with a friend to my first meeting and I had to get a ride to my first yoga class because I was so anxious. I couldn't even drive. Oh, but you did it. You did it. It though. And I did know my intuition told me when I got on that yoga mat, like I cried because I knew that was where I belonged. Yeah. Yeah. So something will resonate. Yeah. Just keep trying things go for lots of walks, like Mike said, nature is so healing. Sunshine is so healing.

Tracey: 29:35

I want to say we know there's an element of. When you put yourself out in the world that there's going to be judgment. So I want to be honest about the fact that's the reality. That's something we face, which is sad, because again, we shouldn't be judging. We should be supporting, especially people that are in alignment with what we're doing. But the reality is when you do put yourself out there and you share. Your story, you put yourself in a vulnerable position to be judged but don't let that stop you either because sharing your story is freeing, not just for you personally, but to all the other people out there suffering, and you don't know how it can impact other people and how it can help them.

Kelly: 30:23

And you don't have to share right away. No. Good. It doesn't have to be part of your, I don't think I did I'm trying to think back. No, you didn't, Lindsay. I didn't. You just said that. You, I was quiet about it. You just said you were doing a sober February or whatever, those challenges. Remember that. Yeah. Yeah. You never January. Yeah. Dry January. Sorry. That's what I, yeah, because you never let up that you had a problem No. Or, that you were doing anything that wasn't temporary and when you broke your collarbone, you didn't say it.

Lindsey: 30:53

I remember even on the podcast episode where I talked about that, I left that out. I didn't even say that I was drinking alcohol when I did that because of the, I guess I was afraid of being judged.

Kelly: 31:06

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we don't owe anybody. Anything this comes up all the time, but saying I'm not drinking tonight is enough of an answer, right? Saying I don't drink is enough. That's it. You can stop right there. You don't owe. A reason why

Lindsey: 31:23

also facing the reality and being honest about it, being honest about this isn't just a dry January thing, but I feel like I used that as an excuse to get me going with the not drinking. But it's so freeing. To be able to tell my story and be like, yeah, I was hammered on red wine and fell and broke my collarbone it is so freeing to have that out there. It's your truth. It's the truth. And a lot of people reached out to me that are like, fall down on all the time and hit my head. I'm like, Probably a sign that, you've got to make a decision, like you can't keep doing that because what's going to be the last time that happens, yeah.

Kelly: 32:05

You want to say something there, Mike? I just, he's just smiling away. I'm smiling. Don't judge me. Stop judging me. We told you that this episode is called judgment.

Tracey: 32:17

I would like to say to all those judgy people out there, mind your own fucking business.

Mike: 32:23

Wow. Wow. Fucking.

Kelly: 32:29

Mind your business. Yeah, play your own game. and I see this in our industry, for work too, around comparison, because you're obviously seeing other people with social media and things like that. You're seeing how other people are doing things. So when you're not feeling. Secure about yourself. And I'm guessing if you're just newly quitting alcohol, you're not feeling great about yourself. It's hard to not compare, but instead, look at those people look to those people for inspiration. I would say,

Tracey: 33:04

That's a really good point. Kel is that a lot of that judgment may come from comparison as well. People are comparing how they're doing it or their struggles even with it. In comparison to yours, and there could be some envy there too, if they feel like you're doing it with more ease. Or you're doing it in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable.

Mike: 33:27

They probably don't want to sometimes they don't want to be around you. Oh, for sure. Yeah, you lose people, which can be a good thing too, but

Kelly: 33:37

oh, yeah, your real friends aren't gonna walk away from you

Mike: 33:40

got it. I always said this is the one thing that Facebook fucked up on friends and acquaintances that somebody I went to high school with 30 years ago. Oh, let's be friends. This is yeah, no. Sure. but not a friend. Add acquaintance. Yeah, someone that I know, whatever they got to. Break that shit up. What else is so freeing is realizing that you don't need everybody's approval for what you decide to do with your life, including not drinking. You just don't give a shit what anybody thinks. Think about yourself. That's all I'm going to keep saying. Okay, we're always asking. We're always asking for people's opinions.

Kelly: 34:20

Yeah, you wouldn't worry so much about what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do. and I did learn that with, my first summer, I think at the cottage, I drank bubbly in a cozy, when I say cozy the beer covers all summer long and nobody noticed that it wasn't alcohol. So nobody cares, really. They got their own problems. They got their own problems.

Mike: 34:44

And the ones like Tracy said, that are bringing Oh, so and so's not drink, whatever you want to use as an analogy, but it's that's what social media can do sometimes. So maybe one thing that you can do is they get off social media for a while if you're trying to quit because you can consume yourself as a distraction by looking at all the other bullshit going on and that could cause anxiety and say, fuck it. I'm going to try to, especially during the three year, whatever COVID two year shutdown or whatever it was. I couldn't even imagine how My life would have been if I was drinking during that time. Oh, I know of somebody who is a friend of mine's partner, girlfriend, whatever you want to say. And her life is. Literally fucking upside down now. Oh my god. Out of control. He called me last week and I said, Look, and I'm more of a direct, I don't, there's no coddling. I'm just, try to be nice about it and go what the fuck? You can't be around this person. You got your own things to work on. Plus you got kids, she needs to get help. Clearly she needs to go to some type of treatment facility. Doing it around home isn't going to work. And it got progressively worse during COVID. Because of all the shit that was going on. Off topic, mind you, of course. It's okay. I'm usually good.

Tracey: 36:08

You wouldn't be you if you weren't on topic.

Lindsey: 36:11

I'm

Mike: 36:11

my authentic self. I have ADHD and I like to go all over the place like a super ball hitting the floor. I'm back. I love that.

Tracey: 36:26

Oh, that's awesome.

Kelly: 36:27

Yeah.

Lindsey: 36:28

How do I word this properly without sounding Judgy? Yeah, bitchy. But nobody who's doing better than you is going to be putting you down and minimizing the effort you're putting into staying alcohol free. You have to realize that if you're getting pushback and flack and nasty comments and passive aggressive comments about what you're doing, just consider the source for a second and possibly where they might be coming from. Because if that person was on the same page as you or thriving I don't think that they would be saying. Misery loves company. Yeah. They wouldn't be saying unsupportive things, and I think too, we love validation. So if you're thinking about quitting drinking and you're asking your drinking friends, Hey, do you think this is a good idea? Of course they're going to tell you no, but you can't, they want to keep drinking with you. They want to keep drinking with you. So you can't make your decisions based on outside opinions. you already know what the answer is.

Kelly: 37:31

Yeah, so go inward. What do you say, and Linds like, where can they get this cause you do need, encouragement and reasons to keep going like I know I had my calendar and I cross off every day, I needed those visual encouragements and my family was supportive. And of course I had, friends that were very supportive. But yeah, what do you do if you've got just one core friend group and they're. big drinkers. Where do you get that encouragement?

Lindsey: 38:02

You've got to find like minded people. So social media, groups, podcasts, books. I went on a group. That's how I started. Yeah. Oh yeah. I started the podcast. I was a group. Yeah. Listening to podcasts, listening to other people's stories, and I could relate to something in each one of their stories. Yeah. I had a really good Facebook group too. Yeah.

Tracey: 38:24

Yeah. I was in a Facebook group when I first started considering it, because all my friends were still drinking.. And I had those conversations with my friends where they were like, oh yeah, no you're not that bad. Fine. I drink every day too. I like my wine, whatever. Yeah, I started in. Yeah, I started in a Facebook group that was, completely random with nobody I knew right. So I felt comfortable because nobody knew me. They weren't going to judge me. And for the beginning of my journey, I was sharing my successes in there. And then you get that positive reinforcement from other people going through similar stuff. So to me, that was a very simple, I think that's a very simple, easy, small tool you can use to start out. I started in the group before I actually quit and just saw what other people were posting, saw their journey, which was inspirational, I watched Kelly's journey, which was inspirational seeing her posts. Yeah, like Lindsay said, find people that are aligning with the direction you want to go. Yeah. And make yourself a part of that.

Kelly: 39:35

That's good. Our Facebook community is growing our group that we always have the link to in the show notes. yeah, come join us in there.

Mike: 39:42

Can do it. There's lots of things you can do other than drink. Yeah, there's lots of ways to go about it. I guess is what I mean.

Tracey: 39:49

Yeah, exactly. Kelly said at the beginning, this isn't a 1 size fits all approach. No, find the approach that works for you. And that feels good for you.

Kelly: 40:00

Yeah. You do need a replacement for that alcohol though, I think whatever it is. Whether it's a meeting or a workout community or a yoga class or a walking group or

Mike: 40:11

Weed. Weed. Yeah. I used weed. That's what I used. You did? To get to the first year and then I was like, fuck weed. I can't do it right now. So it's okay. You didn't drink? I didn't drink.

Lindsey: 40:23

That was the goal. Not drinking. Yeah, that was the goal. And you got off of the weed eventually.

Mike: 40:30

I did get out of the weed, three years now. It's Wow. I miss it. I miss, you know what I miss? I miss I'm still going through this where it's I can watch something and laugh my head off. Where I would go absolutely insanely laughing if I was high, but it's like what I said about drinking at the wedding, and starting to dance. That's a progress. It's yeah, you don't need it, dude. You might have evidence. Yeah, you might want it, but my favorite thing to do, as fucked as this will sound, was, I loved waking up on a Sunday morning, during the fall, smoke a joint, watch the football previews, and listen to the guys talk about blah, blah, blah, and I thought, I was like, what in the fuck is wrong with you? But I loved it! I thought it was one of my favorite things, and now I'm like, I don't even fucking watch stuff! It's nuts. My point is I became part of the whole, that was part of the whole, I'm going to use that as my escape from the world's crap to escape from everything. And part of the reason why I woke up and spoke with joint on a Sunday because I was hungover from Saturday. Like 99 percent of the time.

Lindsey: 41:37

Yeah. Oh,

Kelly: 41:39

so would you say that now you have a life that you don't need to escape from?

Mike: 41:45

Yeah, I think for the most part

Kelly: 41:47

Or what do you do then? What do you

Mike: 41:49

look as I throw myself into my work. I don't like that entirely, but what I'm doing is for me, I'm building. Businesses I'm in control. I don't have to go home from work and worry about, my boss is an asshole. My boss is an asshole. I know that cause you know, I live with him, but I'm kidding. Of course I'm talking about myself. No, it's just all those normal stressors in working for somebody else. They're not there. My biggest thing was. Fear of I knew I could do it. I knew I could do it deep down on the side, like I knew I could quit drinking. I knew it was in there. I just was like, holy shit, I gotta jump in this cold water and do it. you're gonna get warm eventually. You're going to move the, get the blood flowing, the circulation, it's going to keep going. It's good. Just tread water, baby. Tread water. That's such a good analogy. It is true. When you first get in water and it's freezing cold, it's freezing. Yeah. And you go to the cottage, right? Just jump. Yes. It's oh! What's happening? OH, then you just warm up as you tread, right?

Kelly: 42:56

So I think all our listeners would like to know if you've been jumping in the water with anybody lately, Mike, are you dating? That's why we had you on. This is actually why. What a lead in. What a lead in.

Mike: 43:09

Oh my god. your dating life? Dating life is absolutely null. There is no dating life. I tried the online stuff when I was first newly single, it was hot check mark. Like just, it was based on looks. Now it's I look, do you drink? Do you smoke weed? And then there's just certain things I look at hot as hell, but I'm like, it's going to be like, there's no subs. There's going to be no, I'm judging. This is my problem with dating. I used an app and looked at someone's face. And a couple of words and it's who the fuck am I to go and judge somebody that way? So I got off of it. I'm on the organic train and the soil is very depleted out there.

Kelly: 43:55

ladies in Burlington and the surrounding area. What's your age range, Mike? Let's just put it all. 35 to 45. Sorry. 35 49. Like 25 to whatever. Yeah. 25. Okay.

Mike: 44:14

Okay. I have a in common with a 25 year old really. Settle down. No, yeah. I think, I don't know. When I talk to somebody, I know if I genuinely like them as I want to get to know them more. You have to listen to that. Yeah. That's a good thing. I think, you've all been through the dating, world. It's fucking blows sometimes, but it's just we're humans, why can't we meet people and get to know them instead of look, getting drunk and going home and having sex with somebody. It was like, Oh my God, I should not have done that for both parties. it was tough, but now I want to meet somebody organically, think is the best way to put it. I'll just know. Send your applications to P. O. box. I'll have my team review them.

Tracey: 45:03

Mike, why don't you talk about your 1 business though, because it could be helpful to people who are living alcohol free or. Getting more connected with their health and what's going on in their body.

Mike: 45:18

Yeah I have a business I started out of a passion my business is called naturalhealthmarket. ca that's the domain, it's an online store where it started with one vendor the vendor, sells herbal teas and different herbs, and I tried one of their products, I really like the product, And they're in the U. S. and I didn't like the fees and the shipping for a couple of bags of tea. And I decided to make a phone call and say, how can we turn this into a distribution network? And now I think we're up to, I want to say there's seven or eight different vendors that are all selling different products. From herbal cleanses like parasite cleanses to heavy metal detox mold cleanses to different herbal supplements. There's so many, there's a couple of things there's one product called up and smoke, for example, that helps people quit smoking and it's all that's a tincture. There's superfoods like she legit. I don't know, there's probably over 200 products now. It's been pretty cool. This is the first year. The goal was for people to. Have access to this stuff in one spot. So if you wanted to try a couple of different vendors, products you buy it, we just ship it and, free shipping on orders over 150.

Kelly: 46:43

We really do a number on all of our systems and our insides when we're drinking alcohol. Yeah, I know that was a big thing for me to just get back to gut health and all of that stuff and figure out what minerals I needed and where I was depleted and all that liver cleanse.

Mike: 46:59

There's a big thing on liver cleansing kidney cleansing. Yeah, there's testosterone hormonal supplementation. Yeah, as we all get older, sometimes things stop working and, don't think it's completely. Yeah. Related to a hundred percent alcohol, but alcohol is definitely a factor. Absolutely a factor.

Kelly: 47:22

Anything else we want to say about judgment? We touched on really good things. All right. thanks, everybody, for listening. I hope that, this found you in a place where maybe you could drop a little judgment or look for some inspiration share this with a friend if you think it would help them. You can find all of our links to our social media and our website in the show notes, and we would love it if you could rate and review our podcast until next time, guys, keep laughing! Thank you for listening. Please give us a five star rating like and subscribe, share on social media and tell your friends. We love getting your feedback and ideas of what you'd like to hear on upcoming episodes of the LAF life podcast. If you yourself are living alcohol free and want to share your story here, please reach out.