Nanette McGuinness 00:00
[INTRO MUSIC] Welcome to For Good Measure, an interview series celebrating diverse composers and other creative artists, sponsored by a grant from the California Arts Council. I'm Nanette McGuinness, Artistic Executive Director of Ensemble for These Times. Joining us for the first episode of our second season, we'd like to welcome Nina shaker, who we spoke to in December 2023. [INTRO MUSIC ENDS] Thank you so very much for joining us. I'm really glad to have you.
Nina Shekhar 00:36
Thanks so much, Nanette. It's really an honor to talk with you.
Nanette McGuinness 00:40
Yeah, let's dive right in here. So, you're a flutist, a pianist, and a saxophonist, you earned dual degrees in music composition and chemical engineering from the University of Michigan, which is very impressive, by the way. And then you continued your education as a Master's student in composition at USC. Now, you're getting your doctorate at Princeton. Can you tell us about your path to becoming a composer, it can't have been straightforward with those dual talents.
Nina Shekhar 01:10
Oh, definitely, it was quite a winding road, I would say, um, you know, when I was a kid, I grew up playing piano, eventually the flute like in my school band program. And I remember with that, especially like, when I started piano, like, my brother is older than me, he was taking piano lessons. And I would just sit in, in the background, kind of an envy, like wanting to also do that. And I eventually, you know, as I started playing piano, I knew that I had this kind of instinct as a composer, like, I would write these little pieces at the piano. And I was excited about that. And then I was always very ambitious, so that when I went to middle school and joined or middle school band program, like I wanted, I was like, I'm gonna write a piece for concert band supply, you know, like having this kind of mentality of like, oh, I want to write something to, um, and, you know, eventually, when I was deciding on college programs, you know, I really didn't think at first that I was going to major in music, I think I thought, like, maybe with minor, I always thought, you know, my parents had this dream of me going to medical school. Like, I really thought I was going to do some sort of Science degree, and maybe do a minor in music. Like, I didn't think I was going to actually try to pursue it professionally. And then, I don't know, it's just like, the more I did it, the more I realized that I really loved it. And I wanted to, you know, like, actually try to put myself out there and and, you know, study it in college and try to pursue something professionally, or at least make that like have the chance to make that decision later. And so I ended up doing a double major, I double majored, as he said, in chemical engineering and composition, and it was really a challenge. You know, I, to be honest, I would say, the engineering major, I mean, I did love, I grew to love it. And I do have a wide range of interests. But to be honest, it was to make my parents less afraid. They were so terrified, just what would happen financially, if I majored in music, and I was like, No, you need to have a way to get a job, like engineering, you'll probably get a job. So I did that kind of just satisfy them. But then eventually, you know, as I started finding more success as a composer, I think they came to terms with it and thought, Okay, I think she could, she could actually be successful if she wanted to. And then that's kind of my path. And then I eventually just, like, made a decision, I finished both degrees. But then I made a decision that I wanted to really pursue, pursue. Composition is my main profession. And then I kind of put my engineering degree to the side. I haven't really looked back at it. But, um, yeah, but I am grateful I had that experience, because I really, you know, I think all of these interests that I had, or, you know, these different fields of study that I was exposed to have definitely informed the way I think, you know, as an artist, and you know, just the way I look at the world. I feel like engineers, the way they analyze problems is like so specific and they understand like the consequences of actions and in a different way, in a much more like, tangible way than maybe artists do. But artists also understand the emotional side of t hings. So I think seeing both sides of that has kind of definitely informed my practice and my goals as an artist.
Nanette McGuinness 05:06
Can you talk about your compositional process? How does your performance experience inform and affect your composing? Do you compose that the piano? Is one instrument higher in your thoughts? And you've already answered this a little bit, but obviously the engineering, how that affects when you compose, if at all, other than being organized, a certain way.
Nina Shekhar 05:30
Yeah, so in terms of my performance experience, so, you know, as I said earlier, I started as a pianist, and then eventually became flutist. And that's kind of my main instrument. And, you know, in my undergrad, I was like, a very serious flutist I, as part of the degree program, I took lessons, I did a recital, full on, I studied with Amy Porter, who's a really well known flutist, and it was, it was very rigorous, I would say, I think for most composers who are, like, I think it was, it was almost like another major, along with my double major. And I think because of that, I understood kind of the intensity that goes along with this, like, I understand what it feels like to be a performer on stage, you know, to be nervous on stage. Also, just even the way that, you know, performers interpret scores and thinking about notation and things like that, like I understand the mindset that a performer will have, when they see triple p, versus, like mezzo-piano, you know, it's a different kind of intensity associated with that, or even just like physical constraints, when it feels like, you know, if it's a violin, I mean, violin is not my instrument, but I understand like, certain techniques will place a physical strain on the performer, and what does that mean for them? And how does that relate? How does that feel in their body? And then how does that translate musically to? So I think all of those considerations have definitely informed the way that I approach composing and my relationship with performers, you know, when I'm working with them, and I always am very gracious to performers really hard, it's really hard to get there on stage. idea, okay, there's no do overs either. Like when you're performing, it's like one and done, you get on stage, which is really scary. And I have so much respect for that. And in terms of engineering, you know, kind of what I was saying earlier. You know, sometimes I think about this, this one class I had at Michigan, or did my undergrad that was about the Flint water crisis. And I remember, we had like, homework problems associated with... They were saying, like, oh, how, like, a like measuring, like the corrosion and like understanding like corrosion inhibitor, like all these very specific things, and how does that translate, just like, in real life, you know, use different scenarios. And, and I remember at the same time, like some artists, friends of mine, were kind of putting on these fundraiser concerts about, like, related to the Flint water crisis, but they didn't really understand exactly what was happening. And I remember being frustrated about that, like, I was like, Wait, we need to know, we need to know what's happening, so that we understand, like, how to address it, why we're addressing it like, exactly what is the issue. And I think that mindset has definitely translated into my work in the sense that, like, whenever I'm tackling any kind of subject and or a lot of my music is related to identity. Like, I kind of really want to think in many layers like that, what exactly are the issues that I'm trying to address? And how can I kind of in a systematic way, like think about, like, point by point, what exactly is it that like, I want to say and want to do and how do my actions make a difference or change things or not, you know? And I think that that mindset has definitely informed my decision making process.
Nanette McGuinness 09:36
Great. That's very interesting. So given that the flute is your primary instrument that sounds like you do not compose at the piano.
Nina Shekhar 09:46
I do sometimes I do occasionally. You know, I think that I'm like, so nervous about like, getting on stage as a pianist nowadays because my fingers are so out of shape, but I do like, the privacy of my own home, I will definitely improvise with the piano, you know, I will definitely try ideas to hear, you know, like sitting at the piano is a great way to just test out different pitches and like a lot of material. And, you know, as I've been doing a lot more like electronic performance also, you know, obviously I'll have a MIDI keyboard and like have to play the piano in a very different ways. I do definitely still use that practice, but maybe not in as traditional of a way as I could.
Nanette McGuinness 10:36
Yeah, that's cool. It makes, makes perfect sense. I mean, when we don't, we lose our chops really fast.
Nina Shekhar 10:44
It's so fast. It's kind of scary how fast they go away. But it comes back. You know, I was in Italy this summer doing a residency and they gave me this beautiful Steinway grand piano in in my studio, and you know, it was kind of the first downtime I had had and months and I was like, oh, man, I have to use this piano. It'd be such a waste. So but, you know, I was trying to get back into you know, some Chopin etudes and like trying to work out my, my chops and it comes back, it comes back. But it's, it's like I have to sit down and do it and devote the time to it.
Nanette McGuinness 11:27
[OUTRO MUSIC] Thank you for listening to For Good Measure, and a special thank you to our guest Nina Shekhar for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast by clicking on the subscribe button, and support us by sharing it with your friends, posting about it on social media, and leaving us a rating and a review. To learn more about E4TT, our concert season online and in the Bay Area, or to make a tax deductible donation, please visit us at E4TT.org. This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council and generous donors like you. For Good Measure is produced by Nanette McGuinness and Ensemble for These Times, and design by Brennan Stokes. With special thanks to Co-producer and Audio Engineer Stephanie M. Neumann. Remember to keep supporting equity in the arts and tune in next week "for good measure." [OUTRO MUSIC ENDS]