Med School Minutes
Med School Minutes- Ep. 39- HUGE 2024 Match For IMGs
Get ready to celebrate Match Day with Dr. Pablo Siriruca, a recent graduate and soon-to-be former USMLE counselor! Still buzzing from his residency placement, Dr. Siriruca will discuss his journey to becoming a doctor and the strategies that helped him achieve Match Day success.
In this episode, you'll embark on a deep dive with Dr. Siriruca as he shares his personal story – what fueled his passion for medicine and his steps to turn his dream into reality. He'll also highlight the winning strategies that secured him the desired residency, offering invaluable advice for future applicants.
Whether you're just starting your medical school adventure or anxiously awaiting your own Match Day, this episode is packed with practical tips and inspiring insights straight from a recent participant. Gain the edge you need to navigate the Match process and celebrate your Match Day victory!
#matchday #residency #residencymatch #doctor #caribbeanmedschool #caribbeanmedicalstudent #sjsm
Get ready to celebrate Match Day with Dr. Pablo Siriruca, a recent graduate and soon-to-be former USMLE counselor! Still buzzing from his residency placement, Dr. Siriruca will discuss his journey to becoming a doctor and the strategies that helped him achieve Match Day success.
In this episode, you'll embark on a deep dive with Dr. Siriruca as he shares his personal story – what fueled his passion for medicine and his steps to turn his dream into reality. He'll also highlight the winning strategies that secured him the desired residency, offering invaluable advice for future applicants.
Whether you're just starting your medical school adventure or anxiously awaiting your own Match Day, this episode is packed with practical tips and inspiring insights straight from a recent participant. Gain the edge you need to navigate the Match process and celebrate your Match Day victory!
#matchday #residency #residencymatch #doctor #caribbeanmedschool #caribbeanmedicalstudent #sjsm
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Med School Minutes podcast, where we discuss what it takes to attend and successfully complete a medical program. This show is brought to you by St James School of Medicine. Here is your host, kaushik Gua.
Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of Med School Minutes, where we talk about everything med school related, with the focus on international students, specifically students from the Caribbean. As we are in March, this episode will be dedicated to talking about the residency match process and SOAP. Whether you are a medical student or just curious about the journey to becoming a practicing physician in the United States, this video will break down the essential steps. Residency is the process in which medical students eventually get a job as a practicing physician. The residency match process is a crucial step for medical students completing their education and transitioning into residency training, or basically the practical training that doctors need to get fully licensed. It's a system designed to pair graduating medical students with residency programs across the country. Here is how it works. First, the medical students apply to residency programs through the Electronic Residency Application Service, or ERAS. This process is the same for students who finished in the US medical schools and for those who are considered international medical graduates, which Caribbean students are. Irrespective of their nationality, all students will submit their applications, which include their medical school transcripts, letters of recommendations, personal statements and various other required documents, which might vary from the applying institution, etc. Once applications are submitted, residency programs review them and extend interview invitations to select candidates. These interviews are a crucial opportunity for both parties to assess the fit and compatibility. After the interview process concludes, both applicants and residency programs rank each other in order of preference. Medical students submit their rank list through the National Residency Matching Program or the NRMP, while programs submit their rank list separately. Finally, on match day, medical students across the country eagerly await their fate. This is when the NRMP algorithm matches applicants with residency programs based on their rank list. This is typically the second week of March, but it varies slightly depending on the date, so let's talk about some numbers.
Speaker 2:In 2023, nrmp reported a 62.4% match rate among IMG applicants who submitted a certified rank order list according to the PGY main residency match 67% for US IMGs and 59% for non-US IMGs. The match rate for international medical students increased by 10-12% during the past seven years, but if you compare this to the 94% match rate for US medical school graduates, the current match rate for IMGs still has a lot of room for improvement. This year, in 2024, a total of 9,045 IMGs obtained first-year residency positions in accredited US GME programs, an increase of 7.8% from last year and comprising more than one-quarter of all matched applicants Of the IMGs matched 3,181 US citizens decreased of 175 compared to last year. The number of matched non-US citizen IMGs is 5,864, up 832 compared to 2023. Despite the record high applicant participation, the match rates for US citizens and non-US citizen IMGs remain steady, with less than 1 percentage point difference from last year of 67% and 58.5% respectively. Sjsm alone matched 105 students into residency this year. We are still waiting on some post-match results, but even then, 105 is the highest number of matched residents for SJSM ever. Our students continue to make strides in the match and the results show it. To match for residency, students must not only have great scores on the US MLE, but need a clear strategy when it comes to applying for residency. Networking, strong letters of recommendation, good interview preparation, good research on IMG-friendly residency programs are just some of the things that will make a huge difference in matching. Over the past two years, we've recorded several podcasts where we covered the best practices from our students who did match. I would strongly encourage you to check some of them out.
Speaker 2:However, not all students are successfully matched through the main match day process. This is where SOAP comes in. Soap, or the Supplementer Offer and Acceptance Program, is a process designed to help unmatched applicants find residency positions that are still available after the main match. It's a fast-paced, intense process where applicants apply to unfilled programs and receive offers in rounds. You really have to work closely with your school. Moreover, this entire process lasts literally no more than one to two days. Throughout the SOAP, applicants have the opportunity to apply for unfilled programs, receive and consider offers and make decisions quickly. It's a challenging process, but it offers a chance for unmatched applicants to secure a residency position In 2023,. There were a total of 40,375 positions offered in the match. 2,431 of them were filled through the SOAP.
Speaker 2:While the chances of matching in SOAP are not great, a good number of our students were successful in doing so this year. Now, if you haven't matched at all this year, it is crucial that you use the next 11 months wisely. We advise our students to take on a meaningful role in a medical or an educational institution, preferably at some sort of a clinical exposure. Students who meaningfully use their time between matches are highly likely to match next year. But the year gap does not mean a year off. I'll give you a very clear example of this.
Speaker 2:St James School of Medicine has, for eight years, been running the USMLE Counseling Program. In this program, we hire our students who didn't match or didn't apply in time, but have finished the entire SJSM curriculum, to become a USMLE counselor for our basic science students In about 10 months. Our counselors, aside from helping basic science students to be successful in their program, spend time working with our team on research, curriculum evaluation and, even more importantly, networking and application and interview preparation. As a result, in eight years, 31 counselors have matched at a 100% match rate the next year. Some of these folks that had failures on USMLE have had several unsuccessful matches. One student failed to match four times before coming to the USMLE Counseling position and then subsequently matched.
Speaker 2:My point here is there is no excuse. If you fail to match this year, roll up your sleeves, come up with a plan and use the next 11 months in the most meaningful way possible and, most importantly, network. With that said, I'd like to bring in a guest on today's show. Please welcome Dr Pablo Ciceroca and SJSM alumni, a newly matched resident and soon to be former USMLE counselor. Pablo will tell us a little bit about what helped him match and what his words of wisdom will be for the next group of students who are going to appear for the match in 2025. So, without further ado, let's welcome Dr Ciceroca. Welcome to our show, pablo, and before we even say another word, congratulations. Thank you so much. So, just so our viewers know, today is match day. Can you kind of tell us what this week is and the logistics of this week, so our viewers know exactly what you've been through this entire week?
Speaker 3:Oh yes. So yeah, this match was being mixed with emotions, especially family waiting to see where you're going to end up. First day is kind of like you matched and that's like a big weight off your shoulders. But then Friday is like where? So you know, basically, is this your top choice? Or where in the list right, did they rank you? So I'm just really happy you know that it has come to protection.
Speaker 2:Okay, so a lot of hard work but it paid off A lot of hard work. And can you kind of tell us about this ranking process? And a lot of our viewers are not familiar with that. And Monday, so obviously you submit your choices during the match process. You interview, you get interview calls and, just for the record, can you tell our viewers how many interviews you got?
Speaker 3:I actually got 23 interviews Okay yes.
Speaker 2:So I want to talk a little bit about that. Almost sounds like too much, but I want to know, know what the personal implications of 23 interviews are. But before we get into that, so you, you, after the interviews you go for these visits or these interviews, you fly out. Some of them are over zoom, some of them are in person. Right it as a percentage? How many were in person? How many were over zoom? I think it was 5050.
Speaker 3:Yeah, somewhere over zoom, so we're in person. Okay, yeah, and some of them that you had the option like they could offer, like your zoom over, you know, basically because they understand some people can fly out, okay, so they made, but not all the programs are made the same.
Speaker 2:And as far as so, what once you finish all your interviews? Interviews are typically done what around November, December yes, I know some interviews went through January as well, not for you maybe, but for some other students. So pretty much after June, there seem January there seems to be a hard stop on interviews. No more interviews, yes, and at that point, when do you go to the NRMP website and when do you actually fill out that? Hey, these are my top choices. When does that happen? So order list, as they call it, yeah.
Speaker 3:So basically, I don't remember off the top of my head the exact date, but there's a date that you have to go in.
Speaker 3:Basically you put the programs and list of you know your top choice all the way to your least favorite. Or if there's a program that you basically don't want to go, you know basically you don't rank them, so depending any program, basically it's a possibility that you can match into right At the end of the day is also the program right how far in the list? Because they also have a list. So depending how you know how top in the list that you are, basically you will match into that program.
Speaker 2:So basically the way it sounds like, it's like you submit a choice list and then the hospital submits a choice list of candidates, correct? I just heard from a program director it's typically double the number of seats that they have. So if this program has 13 openings, the program director said that they typically rank 26 candidates, and then they then, and then the NRMP algorithm. There's no human interaction into this as far as my understanding is that. Oh, pablo ranked university program a in his top three and the university also ranked Pablo as well. There's a match, so he matches, and so so how many programs can you rank?
Speaker 3:You can rank as many programs as you want.
Speaker 2:There is actually yes, so so if you went to apply for 100 programs, you can potentially rank 100?.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can potentially rank programs. Yeah, the only things that you pay a fee past, you know, the 10 top list. But you can definitely rank as many programs as you want. Okay, so you, how many programs did you rank? I ranked basically all the programs. Okay because I definitely want it, you know, basically to have, you know, as a backup option. You know, in case you know my top choice didn't choose me. You know I will still have a, like you know, somewhere to go.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right. And how expensive does this come out to be Like typical, so let me rephrase it. What for a student who's trying to get into residency next year? What recommendation would you give them to? To rank how many programs minimum?
Speaker 3:minimum. You know you should be ranking at least 10 programs. Yes, based on the NRMP data, they say you know, if you rank 10 programs and you get definitely 10 interviews right, you have a 95% of matching. So yeah, so that's what the data has been showing in the past year. So you know, past the 10th you're definitely going to match. Okay, so that was the recommendation by NRMP data. That's, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:And so now, going back to the interview process, you said that there's some programs give you a choice. Do you think that there is an advantage of going in person versus doing something over zoom?
Speaker 3:from your personal experience? That's an excellent question. I definitely believe in person is much better, not only because you get to see the program face to face, you get to interact with the residents. It's not the same as you know, you're in front of the computer screen, right, and you don't know the. You know what, you know they might be thinking about you, or maybe we don't know what's housed the hospital going to be. So there's always, by going in person, you get to see not only the hospital that you're going to be working on. You know you're going to see, you know the colleagues, your residents, so you have that ability. Maybe you know if you have a family you can also see. You know where you're going to end up living. So this was very important for me. That's why I always chose if the, if the program had like the option for in person, I always chose that Right.
Speaker 2:And what about a program that has only zoom? Did you do anything? Did you follow any tactics to make yourself stand out during the zoom, Like did you wear a special hat?
Speaker 3:No, yeah, that's a great question, not a special hat. Yeah, I just in every interview, you know, zoom or person, I just try to be myself. You know, you know the recommendations, just dress well, but at the end of the day you want to be yourself, right, you can't just, you know, you know, try to be somebody else. You got to be unique, genuine, okay, and I think you know that's what programs are looking for you, right, you know they're really not worried about you know how you're dressing, but the personality if you're that's why it's called, I think the match right, okay, if you match, you know, with the mission of the hospital and you also match, you know, what you're trying to get from the hospital. So it's both ways.
Speaker 2:Okay, so based on your experience now, with so many interviews this year which you've knocked it out of the park, what's your advice for interviews? Did you have any technical interviews where they're asking you very technical stuff that you've learned in basic sciences or even in your clinicals, or were they all behavioral? What? What is your take?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that's a great question. In my interviews I was wasn't asked anything clinical. It was actually about a situational, like behavioral questions, and most of the time it was just basically personality right. They were just asking you know, you know basically what you do for fun, you know the things that basically that some sometimes people think, oh, you know, these are cheesy questions, but they actually want to find out if you're able to be in a team right with the other people that are already residents, right, if you're able to interact well with them.
Speaker 2:So that's where they're looking, right, you know so I do know that this particular aspect has changed a little bit. When you talk to physicians of yesteryear, who are obviously in really, really high positions now, they always say that in the 60s, 70s and 80s and even the 90s and early 2000s, there was a big focus on we want lone wolves that was the term that they used, lone wolves Whereas now every time I talk to a program director and from what you're saying, it seems like the mindset is more about I don't want to learn wolf, I want a team and I want the team, the sum of the team members, to be greater than the individuals. That is correct, and is that what you saw in your interviews?
Speaker 3:Yes, yes. Now I think you know most of the questions, especially the behavioral there were. You know gear tours, you know how can you, you know, do this within a team, right? How well can you interact within a team? So most of the questions were testing you to see how well you know you're, you're, you're able to interact with others. Right, because at the end of the day, you know, you go into a residency program, you become a doctor, but the success is not only one person, it's made from different people. So you're going to work with social workers, residents attending. So I think that's it has shifted, like you said. So now it's like more. We want a person that can do well with others.
Speaker 2:Okay, interesting and you know, talking a little bit about the residency process, this is something that a lot of people don't understand or realize is that obviously, med school expenses are med school expenses, but residency this is not cheap either. Right? If you don't mind, could you tell us about how much you budgeted and what you kind of looked at overall from a budgeting standpoint on how you arrange your finances for this whole process, because it couldn't have been cheap. You're traveling to 27 different destinations. You're probably staying a night, or do the programs actually provide you with a place?
Speaker 3:Some programs do provide, basically, you know, hotel accommodations and but most of the programs that I had on my list didn't didn't have any, any of this. So it was a lot of expenses, right. So you know I budgeted, you know, more or less, like in the, you know the 10 grand, but you actually came out more because you know I had to stay maybe a little bit. I wanted to see the area.
Speaker 3:You know, sometimes, you know, when you go into a program in person, it's like a one day thing but you want to at least take another day right Just to explore the area, explore where you're going to be, just imagine yourself that you are already in that program and so you know, I usually, you know, my expenses were a little bit higher because of that, because of food and all these types of things, transportation and so forth.
Speaker 2:So, from your experience, if you were to make a rule of thumb for the expenses that they should budget for the match process and the interviewing process, what would you say per interview that they receive or they think that they would receive? What should be a rule of thumb budget? Would it be $1,000, $2,000, $10,000 per interview?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you know the rule of thumb will be around like $1,500, $2,000 per interview.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, and even to apply to the NRMP, that's expensive too, right? Yeah, yeah, how much is that?
Speaker 3:So the NRMP, the NRMP, basically you just pay a fee, right? I think what you pay most is actually the ERS application whenever you're certifying. So you're actually paying more to be certified, right, and to basically submit all your transcript to ERS. But I NRMP is just like a one-time fee. It's not really that expensive, okay.
Speaker 2:So from the period that you graduate and you're applying for matches to the period that before you get any interview calls. What expenditure would a student be looking at Before any interview calls? Before any interviews?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Wow, that's hard to say. I will say, in a couple of, you know, thousands, a couple of thousands, yeah, a couple of thousands, but less than five. Less than five, yeah, less than five. Okay.
Speaker 2:So I think it sounds like a safe bet would be $5,000 for the match process, yes, and or the application process of the match, and then another $1,500 give or take per interview that they might have received.
Speaker 3:That's correct, yeah, and that also, you know, will vary. Yeah, it's very expensive and that will vary. Basically, you know, depending if you want to, you know, go up because you know the matching process. You want to look the best right, so you want to, you know, have the best picture. You want to, you know, basically have the best personal statement. Maybe you want to hire a company to help you, you know, with your personal statement whatever.
Speaker 2:Well, we don't recommend that.
Speaker 3:We help with that Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:We want our students to come to us. Yes, I wish they would use this a little bit more. It's just a matter of giving us a call, giving the office a call, giving our clinical department a call. Hey, I'm writing this personal statement. Can you review it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, At the end of the day, you want somebody else to review your personal statement. You'll see how it sounds. You know, sometimes when we're writing personal statements, right, sometimes we think it's the best, but, you know, maybe another person that's actually reading it thinking it's missing a couple of things. And I remember revising this right. It took me, you know, a couple of months to actually get to my final, my final paper, Right.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. So now going back, this was. I know we talked about this in the first place and you said that this was not the first time you applied for match. You've had. You've attempted this before. Obviously, there were some extenuating circumstances because of which you couldn't follow through with the match process. I just want to know what your experience is like as far as managing the stress. So let's talk about the stress level with match. Generally speaking, I can't even imagine what that's like the way I so I'm not a physician, but the way I envision the match process is essentially, it's like applying for a job but you're only allowed the application for a certain time frame and the results are given out on one day. Would that be a fair characterization for somebody who's not a physician?
Speaker 3:It doesn't understand. I think so, but I think also the stress level is too high. Especially, you know that you know you have certain deadlines, right. You know you have to wait until match day to know your results. You actually, you know you're you're working on different things, right, to improve. You know who you are. Especially, you know if you've been, you know, through different cycles of the residency process. Right, you're thinking, well, how can I do this better, how can I do this? And then the stress level comes. You know, at the match week that's when everything's going to happen. You're going to, you know, either match or not match. So it's, you know it's filled with emotions, right.
Speaker 2:So, since you've been through this process before, do you think your stress levels get progressively higher? Or do you think because you went through this process once before, you were more experienced and you had better manage stress management tools available?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I believe I have better stress management right. That basically after going because I had a like more experience, you know I learned from my mistakes. I learned you know what I needed to do to become better, better, basically applicant right To stand out, Right. I think the only stress was basically match week, right. I think everyone has this. But you know, you know, going through the process again, you understand what you need to do, right. It's not like you know your first time and you don't know. Okay, what should I do? You know personal statement, all these, all the strategies, you already have them. So I think it did help. It helped Okay.
Speaker 2:So also, you know, I know you're a dad, You're obviously a husband and I've always been a big advocate for having an emotional support system, which obviously families are great for. However, when it comes to studying and I advise my students this all the time that I think families are a detriment to the studying process, because when you're studying medicine, you're looking at eight to 10 hours nonstop. You don't want distractions and that's why I always advise students who always say, oh, I'm going to do so much better at home. No, you're not, because moms and dads, with all due respect to them, they don't understand this. If you're living with them, if you're living with husbands and wives and they're not physicians they're not understanding the stresses that you're going through. They will be like oh hey, you know, pablo, can you run to the grocery store and get me this? Or, hey, dad, can you take me to the park? These are distractions, very good distractions, but they are distractions nonetheless. So when it comes to studying and step one, studying I always say you know what Family secondary at this point In your situation with the match process, what do you think?
Speaker 2:Did you think the families really was a big benefit? Because the amount of work that goes, and I've seen so many students go through the match process. It's not an easy process. First, let's break down the time commitment that's required to actually fill in the application and then prepare for the interviews on a daily basis. So if you got 27, 23 interviews, as you said, how much time did it take for you to prepare for each interview?
Speaker 3:I think you know with me since coming. You know past two cycles, you know I had more experience. I think you know what took me the most was, you know, preparing myself into. You know the strategy of how would I present myself to the programs.
Speaker 3:I think, at the end of the day, right, they, some of these programs, they do ask similar questions. Right, and you got to be genuine. You can't just, you know, copy a certain script, right, you got to be genuine. And I think for me, what helped me the most was you know, I'm going to try be genuine. Every single interview. I'm going to try to answer basically honestly.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And I also did look basically at, you know, different residency programs that actually had a couple of, like example, interview questions, so I did practice those and I became better right. You know I got friends to listen to me because this is very important, you know you got to, you got to practice. So you know practice makes perfect Right, and I believe you know that helped me the most Right right, and so even the application.
Speaker 2:so a lot of students fill out the application while they're studying. How much time does the application and researching the programs and applying to the program state? Is that a huge time commitment or is it like not at all? It's like 10 minutes? No, it takes time. It takes time depending.
Speaker 3:you know, if you definitely, what program are you interested in? Right, you got to research something you know in the ERAS, you know, for those that don't know, you know you only get like a little detail of the program you get. You know who the program directors are, the email, the contact information, but you know you don't know the mission of the hospital, you don't know. You know what they're about. So you know it's up to you to go there and do your own research, right, and this is going to take time. So you got to balance out. You know, while you're studying, while you're taking care of family, you know, here and there and this was, you know, kind of like the biggest challenge for me, right, as a parent, right, because I had, you know, my family had to support I also was basically studying, you know, and then I also had to have my own time to research programs. So, but I think at the end of the day it worked out, right, it worked out.
Speaker 2:And so, so obviously, I know you have a very young son and you know young children they're children, they need a lot of attention, and not just from mom, they need attention from dad too. Um, so how, how did you manage that? Like, this aspect of playing multiple roles I know we all play multiple roles, but it seems like you know, 23 interviews is not normal. Like it is, it is a very good abnormal to be at. This is remarkable.
Speaker 2:And preparing for all those interviews and all that travel I mean kudos to your wife. You better be really nice to her. Uh, moving forward, because I know and I know how much you traveled and I know how Chicago is, interior is your base, but it really wasn't because you were traveling so much and right through the process you were actually, we were colleagues, you were working as a counselor, um, so I know exactly what you went through. But how did you manage that? Like, were there any specific strategies that you were using? Was it, like you know, just buying your wife flowers every time you were here? Like, how did? How did?
Speaker 3:that work out. Yeah, it was stressful at times. I kind of like fell bad sometimes, you know, with my son because I had to sacrifice time, you know, to actually, you know, fly out. But at the end of the day, you know before that, you got to be honest with your family, right, you know they have to believe right in what you're doing, right, it's going to be make a better outcome, you know, at the end of the day. So, you know, I talked to my family. I was really honest and I told them you listen, I got to do this right. It's going to take, you know, some time. You know off from. You know how we spend together, right, there's going to be days I'm not going to be there. So I think that honesty level really helped. Okay, and you know my son actually, you know, you know he understood he, you know he was always happy. Oh, where are you going next? You know where are you traveling.
Speaker 1:So he kind of like took a kind of like a game.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we had kind of like a map and we will like place, like little little dots, that's all you know. I will travel this place, this place, and then he will ask me you know when I will come back? How was it? How was it? So I think you know it's. You know it came out perfect. It came out perfect.
Speaker 2:What was the reaction when you told him that you matched in your top choice?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, they were. You know my wife, my son, you know they're extremely happy, you know. You know they were, you know they were. Oh my God, I cannot express you know the emotions that they're going through.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and now they have a place. Your wife was no more traveling like this anymore, yeah, exactly. And where were you situated before that? I know you came to Chicago essentially for the counselor position. Before that you were somewhere else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I was actually in Miami, florida, wow, and I was doing like an externship. You know, I was trying to, you know, improve my chances since I went to this cycle, and boy did you 23 interviews.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. I want to talk a little bit about this position that you came in for, the counselor position. This was a position that we started St James started. This is unique. No other Caribbean I don't not that I know of I don't know. You've been our student for a while so you know probably more, but as far as my research goes, no other Caribbean school even does anything close to this. Forget about Caribbean school. No American school does this as well, and we've been very pivotal and we're very proud of this.
Speaker 2:You guys are a seventh group that have gone through our program, this counselor program, and they've you've matched, and typically the counselors we take are students who've had more than one attempt in the match. We don't take students who just graduated. I want to hear a little more about your take on the counselor position. You came to us, you wanted to be a counselor. Did that position really help in improving your resume? What does that job really entail and things like that. So can you kind of let's start by what is? How would you describe the counselor position?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's an excellent question. So the counselor position is basically helping you know your fellow students right.
Speaker 3:You're wearing their shoes at a given point, right, you were in basic sciences, so you get to help them out, you get to tutor them, guide them in the right direction, and I think it's very important. I've always believed you're in the principle of service and I think that's why I chose also this position, because you know what a better way of helping. You know people that are struggling, you know that understand. You know you might be thinking about, you know you have challenges while you're starting for your steps, but you're going to have other challenges, right. So I get to basically guide them and tell them that you know this is not the end, right, you get to support them and be their advocate, the same way as a patient. But you have, basically, you have that role and you know, I think it impacted a lot of my students, right.
Speaker 2:So the counselor position essentially for our viewers who don't know what it is it's essentially you have private tuitions at your beck and call. There's no extra charge for it for students. They can come in if they're struggling with something and they cannot get the professor or they're still having difficulty after meeting the professor. That's when they can reach out. That's correct. I have to ask this. I always ask this when I meet people in different professions what is the funniest experience you had as a counselor with the student and what is the most touching experience you've had as a counselor?
Speaker 3:I think the funniest one. You know, as you make your meetings and you meet students, you know from all religions, different ways of life. You know I had this student, you know, basically going in pajamas. Basically I wasn't expecting that, you know. Basically, you think, you know you're going to be having a session, you know very professional, but you know, sometimes they just, you know, want to be relaxed.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:You know I had this, this student, you know, I remember, you know he was in pajamas and in the background you have all these toys and everything. So it was kind of like very funny. You know, just, you know, I wasn't expecting that.
Speaker 2:What kind of toys? Just say it.
Speaker 3:So he has some transformer anime toys.
Speaker 1:I don't know my mind it went to the gutters so I'm not even going to.
Speaker 3:I was like oh, what kind of toys are you just?
Speaker 2:displaying out there. Okay, but that's interesting. Okay, a grown person having. I mean, maybe he's a collector, yeah, and what's the most touching story?
Speaker 3:I think the most touching was when you see that student that's being basically, you know, time and time again has not passed you know the basically NBMEs, the step one, and you tutor them, you guide them for a couple of months and you know I've had the privilege and you know the pleasure of you know these students writing to me and telling me thank you, I passed the step one, and it's not only one. I've had, like you know, five or six that passed the step one, you know just months and basically 15 that actually passed the NBME. So I had a lot of impact and you know, just seeing those letters, you know basically it goes beyond right, it's like a feeling that you can't describe.
Speaker 2:Right, that's awesome, that's truly amazing. I mean, and just so our viewers know, since Pablo has matched and you know, reluctantly, we have to let him go. So we do have three counselor positions open this year. We want applications. It's a great working environment. Can you talk a little bit about the working environment? Let's might as well make this an advertisement for the counseling position. But like, did you think the counseling position helped you in your application process?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it definitely did. It definitely did I. Actually, you know, I believe you know you get transformed basically while you're doing this. You know, as you help others and there's going to be a lot of people that are going to help you throughout the process in the as well. So you know I got transformed. You know I saw a different outlook of what I needed to do and basically, you know you get help. You know with your own, you know basically personal statement, as you're helping others, you get to find new ideas. Maybe I should do this epiphany yes, wow, you know, yeah, and especially you know the counselor position. You, you know, prior to interview season, we actually have basically interview. You know basically practice. So you know we have other students that would like to practice interview skills and I think this helped tremendously because you get to listen in Right, kind of like you were like a program director, and you get to listening how others respond to those questions. They actually, you know, tremendously helped me as well.
Speaker 2:Well, but you did get 23 interviews and before we had our mock interview sessions with all our students, I think you already completed quite a few interviews, if I'm not mistaken. Yes, so you had a lot of experience to you know. Tell students what to expect. I mean, I think the biggest mistake that I've seen doing these mock interviews students come in expecting technical questions and then when you ask them what's your hobby, they're scrounging around trying to figure oh my God, I didn't even think about hobbies. I mean, what do I tell them? And I've had students come and tell them my hobby is sleeping.
Speaker 2:I'm like whoa dude, don't please like. No, you're going to be working 80 hours, up to 80 hours, as a resident. Don't tell a program director that your hobby is sleeping.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Nobody's going to encourage that kind of a hobby? Yeah, and you know, as cheesy as this question might be, this was one of the most common questions that every program did ask because they want to connect. Even you know, you know, I've heard stories that program directors connect with the applicant if they share the same hobby. Right, so you can't just, you know, make up a hobby because they will get you right. So you just try to be honest, right, if your hobby is, you know, playing tennis, you know, at least you know you got to know the famous players, right, something that you can have a conversation right, that shows interest. That shows interest, right. Yeah, you can connect with them.
Speaker 2:Okay. And what about mentioning? Do you think the kind of hobby makes any difference? Because this is very interesting, because I spent nearly a decade in consulting and when we were recruiting we were always told you know, if a candidate reaches your desk it means that technically there's sound. You don't have to worry about the technical aspect. We've tested him, we've questioned him and grilled him with its qualifications. Don't worry about that. We just need you to know whether you can tolerate this person working, say, pulling an all nighter with this person. Can you handle that? Can you, because in consulting you travel a lot. When you travel, if your flight gets canceled and you have an eight hour layover and you're stuck at the airport, can you? Are you okay being stuck in the airport for eight hours?
Speaker 2:So it makes sense that program directors are also looking at it the same way, that they want somebody they can like and they find interesting. So and so, even in consulting, what are your hobbies was a very, very important question. It's very interesting and surprising to see that program directors are kind of using the same tactics. But Do you think that there's a hobby that's better or worse than anything Than you know other hobbies Like? Do you think if you say that, hey, you know what I don't know? Um, dissecting insects is a great hobby, and is that going to like make things a little easier for a surgeon? I'm just making stuff up, but do you think, from your experience, after doing so many interviews, there's a better hobby than others, or not?
Speaker 3:I, you know that's a great question. I think, at the end of the day, there's no best hobby. Um, you know, one of the most important things is that, if you, you understand, what type of skill are you trying to portray, because this is actually not a question about the hobby, but the type of hobby, like you're saying, and what skill right are you going to bring. So maybe, like you were talking, like you know dissecting, maybe this is your curious person, and sometimes you know programs that they're looking for this type of person. That's very curious, right? You know my hobby is tennis. So you know I work great in a team, right? So you know they will ask me, you know how would you? You know what's your favorite player? Or have you played with? You know doubles, singles, so that's how you know they try to just find out a little bit more about you, right?
Speaker 2:So that's interesting. So I will say this, though One of our counselors in previous groups had this conversation with the program director and he obviously matched into the program and this is a very bizarre hobby. His hobby was blacksmithing Like he would actually make metal stuff. And when the program director heard this he was like, oh, this is crazy. I've never met anybody whose hobby is being a blacksmith, because mine is stew and he's like I make swords, like actual swords, as a hobby. And I was talking to this particular student. He said that, yeah, I mean, the program director after session said hey, why don't you come over? And they built several things together and this program director's garage is basically a regular forge, like he has burnt his stuff. So to your point, I think, and the only reason he was invited this was before he even matched they just say, hey, why don't you come over? Like, and he wanted, was interested in the techniques that he knows, because it's such a unique hobby, and I was like man, that's amazing. So to your point. And Anna this, on the flip side, I also know students who've lied about their hobbies and got caught in the lie and obviously like, for example, someone said gardening and then the program director asked okay, what's your favorite plant? They didn't have a plant in mind. That's a favorite plant. Again to your point, if your hobby is gardening and you cannot name a plant, that's a problem. Or if you're getting something completely basic wrong where you know you're calling a succulent something else, things that are relatively common knowledge, I think that that's really terrible.
Speaker 2:But talk to me about the office environment here a little bit. What was your take on it? I mean, we've had mixed reviews on our office environment. I mean I will say this that our office environment is very laid back, and it is. We want students and everybody to come out of their shell and at least this is what we try to do is know we don't want people to be fearful, because fear is never a good thing. People react differently, people have different reactions to fear and they're never their best under under.
Speaker 2:So we don't in our office at least, we definitely don't bark orders. We try to work with people's schedules. We understand this is a job. There are bigger things that people. The job is a means to an end and in most cases, the way we look at things, the end is family, and so that's what we want to portray, I want, your take as an outsider I wouldn't call it an outsider who came in for a year into our office. What was your feeling? Did you feel welcomed? Did you think that, wow, this is a little too much. This is really informal? What was your take on the thing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question. You know, when I came to this position, what I love the most was the people, right, you know everybody here is very helpful. They want you to succeed, right, they want, you know, at the end of the day, your goal is to match, you know, but you're also helping other students. I just felt welcomed, right, and I just enjoy, you know, the environment. You know I came every day when I woke up. You know I wanted to. You know, come to. You know, come to work. You know I definitely enjoy it. You know every minute of it. And I think, at the end of the day, I also impacted other people. I helped them and I learned, right, because you're also learning as you go through. And the funny thing is, you know you will lose the fear, right, if you're a person in fear, it's normal, right, but when you come to this position, you will definitely shed that fear off.
Speaker 2:That's good. That's what we want, because if you're fearful and this is a philosophy of our, of our as a school, this is how we run our school is that you shouldn't be fearful of failing. Failing is a part of learning, it's a part of the journey. Like you know, if you want to get somewhere, you need to take steps to getting that and getting over that fear. Whatever that is writing, not a good personal statement your first personal statement is never going to be good, and we want people to get over that embarrassment, get over that fear and ask for help when they need it. I think that is the key, and not just in medicine, but even in our work. And you know we you know, after today's match results, we are officially the fifth largest Caribbean school right now with the number of students that we're matching into the program. It's nearly 100 students. There are almost no other schools other than the Big Four that have more matches than we do. But what we want is we want our students to, and I think that we've opened up our lines of communication with our students much better than we've done in the past, largely because of our counselors, and we really want our students to not be fearful, because that's something that I always feel, that they are afraid of something or the other, like I'm not going to be the best candidate. That's with all due respect. That's not your decision. It's the program director's decision.
Speaker 2:If they've called you for an interview, you're pretty darn good to begin with. No one's giving out, no one's doing charity or no one's giving a handout. No one's interested in giving you. They will only accept you if you're the best candidate. So my personal statement isn't good and I'm too afraid to ask for help. I don't want to apply for surgery, because what if I fail? These are things that these are a part of the process. This is not failure, but these temperaments is something that we, at least from our management style, we want to exemplify that this is not how people should lead their life.
Speaker 2:Doing any, making a decision from a position of fear is never a good decision. That is correct, and I hope that the minimum takeaway for you after being with us for a year is that that you know if you fail or if there is a distinct possibility of you failing, that should not be the reason why you don't attempt something, whether it's a fellowship, whether it's a risky procedure, whatever that may be Because in a lot of situations you'll see even a smaller percentage of success as long as there is a probability of success makes the whole journey worthwhile. And I can tell you that because I've been an entrepreneur for a very long time and I failed dramatically, yes, but at the same time still standing. And you know, like, as you pointed out, with time, with the more attempts that you've, the attempts that you've taken for this match, you've gotten better at handling stress. Yes, and handling things, and I think that's the growth. Yes.
Speaker 3:That you have with. You're growing in character and I believe you know when you start something and you don't know if it's going to succeed or not, that it's going to value. You know what type of character. You know you're your own warrior. You got to. You know, go out there. And the other thing that you definitely said you got to be open for change. Right, you know you don't have all the keys at the moment. You know there's going to be people there that could definitely help you. Right, and I was always open, right For change. I think I believe you know this was one of the turning points you know from past matches to how I matching, how I got these interviews, because I said to myself you know I need help and I'm going to get it. And you know, and people are going to go out of their way to help me and that says this way. So I shed the fear and you know this. You know, in turn, the environment helped me succeed. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:My final question to you is through the match process you must have met or reached out to several alumni and other St James student. What has been your experience with that Like? Has it been positive? Has it been great? Our students, really former St James students. Are they trying to help you out? Do program directors know about St James? What's been your experience?
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, that's an excellent question. So, yes, I think it really helped because you know you have that connection right. You know they went to the same school as you. They understand where, what you're battling, what your opposition, your challenges are and they go out of their way to help you, to tell you. You know, maybe they, you know you might, they might share the phone numbers that they might tell you if you have questions. And I believe you know, as St James students get placed in all these different residency programs and, like you said before, we have a 95% match rate. It does tell how well you know our students are doing right and program directors do do. I think you know you have kind of like a better chance of getting an interview because St James is a St James student. So I did believe, basically St James student prior St James students, our residents now they go out of their way to help me basically and you know to maybe you know speak, you know good, on behalf of the program directors and so forth. Awesome, so Awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean congratulations and along your journey, we hope that you will be one of those alumni who are going to see St James students and be like you know what we need that student and keep paying it forward, because that's what it's all about. That's how St James has become one of the biggest Caribbean schools and the most successful and we really really like. Our success is your success, and I also want to point out something that you said earlier that beyond your immediate family, nobody wants you more successful than me and everybody else in the office.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because we see the difference and the impact that our alumnus have has made. We've seen how these students have climbed up the various career ladders that they've chosen to follow and where they are today, and how they're influencing the medical community today and how they're positively influencing the results of our school today. A lot of the matches that we're getting today, our matched percentages, are growing dramatically and the reason we're doing so well is because of alumni who are opening doors for our students and that is so heartwarming and so advantageous, and that's why I keep telling our incoming students and the current students who are in the program get out of this bubble that you're in. Go out and talk to our management office, talk to us, tell us that, hey, these are the programs I'm interested in. We will make the introductions to former alumni who have some sort of association with the program and that just opened so many doors. Yeah, but Pablo, or Dr Ciceroca, as I should say now, congratulations, and we're just so incredibly proud of you.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, and I hope the St James mission to help the students succeed basically continues, and I think that's all about. It's a great school and I'm happy to be an alumni. Well, thank you so much.
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