Sebastian Mullaert

Sebastian Mullaert, prodigious electronic musician and former classical violist, voted by Resident Advisor as one of the world’s top live acts and twice Swedish Grammy nominated, reveals the enigmatic blend of spontaneity and meticulous craftsmanship that defines his practice, from his transition into electronic music, his acclaimed Circle Of Live project and his latest collaborative project HIND with Henrik Frendin.

The essence of creativity and connection takes centre stage in this episode, where the interplay between intellect and emotion in music is dissected. Sebastian explores the transformative power of presence in the artistic process. Music lovers and creators alike will find resonance in our discussion on the challenges of pop production, and the importance of infusing recordings with the authenticity of the human touch.

Finally, we challenge conventional notions of creativity, venturing beyond the quantifiable into the realm of natural energy and life force. In a society that often equates creativity with productivity, Sebastian advocates for an approach that honours the ebb and flow of the artistic cycle, emphasising the importance of nurturing an environment where artists can truly thrive. Sebastian Mullaert's insights serve as both inspiration and invitation to rediscover the joys of unfettered artistic expression.

The album HIND – Sebastian‘s collaboration with Henrik Frendin is released 24th May via Lamour Records, pre-order it here.

Presented and produced by Paul Hanford 

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Lost and Sound is proudly sponsored by Audio-Technica

Paul’s debut book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culture Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more. 

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Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:03

lost in sound is sponsored by audio technica, and right now I'm wearing a pair of their athm 50 headphones. I love them. They fit great and snug. They're for the studio or for out and about, for example, like where I am right now on a rather busy street in berlin. Audio technica are a global but still family-run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones, studio quality yet affordable products, because they believe that high quality audio should be accessible to all. So head on over to audiotechnicacom wherever you are in the world.

Speaker 1 0:54

Thank you, hello, hello and welcome to episode 124 of Lost in Sound. I'm Paul Hanford, I'm your host, I'm an author, a broadcaster and a lecturer, and Lost in Sound is a weekly podcast where I chat with an artist who works outside the box, from global icons to trailblazing outsiders and emerging innovators. We talk music, creativity and perhaps that most daunting part of being an artist the praxis of life. Previous guests have included Peaches, suzanne Chiani, jim O'Rourke, chilly Gonzalez, cozy Funny Tootie, jean-michel Jarre, mickey Blanco and Thurston Moore, and today you're about to hear a chat with producer and artist Sebastian Mullart. Meanwhile, my book Coming to Berlin is still available in all good bookshops or via the publisher's website, velocity Press. If you've not read it, buy it please. The royalties occasionally do keep me caffeinated. So yeah, today you're about to hear a chat I had with Swedish artist Sebastian Mullart, who's been working with an electronic music since the 90s, building up a reputation particularly in the live arena, where Resident Advisor voted him one of the top live acts in the world. He's played all corners of the globe, from Boiler Room through Berghain and Fabric. He's been nominated twice at the Swedish Grammys, both for his solo work and under his Minilogue project, and although he has of late been returning to his roots as a classically trained violinist, I feel like I experienced Sebastian the most in the first time with his Circle of Live project, where he invites an ever-changing group of electronic musicians, producers and DJs to perform a collective improvisation. Amongst those he's invited at various points at time for this project have included Amp Fiddler Matthew Johnson, rodhead and Jack O'Jacko, and I saw this in the main ball at Berlin's historic Funkhaus venue, which, for anyone that's been there, is kind of like a circle auditorium concert venue itself, and they played this circle inside and it was incredible like they played for hours and, pardon me, there were points where various musicians would leave the stage and have a little break and then come back and the music would flow. It would find bits where it sort of lost itself a bit and then come back and become really hypnotic and and I really felt like the collective energy of the artists playing and connecting with people in the room.

Speaker 1 3:52

I always prepare questions before I talk with guests, although I don't always stick to them. I sort of generally prefer to go where the conversation goes. But I've learned you can't always rely on an ability to improvise, or at least I can't anyway and ironically, improvising became a central topic for this conversation. Um, talking with Sebastian felt to me like getting a master class in how we draw on creativity, not just for our art but for generally for our lives too. Now Sebastian's perspective will appear spiritual and, to use a common parlance, I guess you could say woo, woo. If you connect with these elements already, or if you find it, or if you find that generally interesting on how we draw inspiration from life, from nature, from observing like things, like our breath, then, like me, you'll have a field day, and if this isn't your bag, I do understand, but you know, give it a go for the length of this chat. Sebastian does offer a lot of practical advice in how we can use nature, things like breath work and connecting with ourselves as a way to make creativity work for us and to navigate those times we don't feel inspired. He's about to release the album hind, a collaboration with the classical musician henrik frenden, which follows his developing interest in seeking novel ways of integrating classical and electronic music.

Speaker 1 5:11

I found listening to Sebastian so interesting. I hope you do too. This is how it went, sebastian. How are you doing? Can you hear me okay? I?

Speaker 2 5:23

hear you very good, can you hear?

Speaker 1 5:24

me, I can hear you super good. Yeah, that's an impressive room that you're in currently, with all the keyboards around you.

Speaker 2 5:31

Yeah, it's my studio, so my little temple, the temple.

Speaker 1 5:39

Yeah, thank you so much for chatting with me today.

Speaker 1 5:49

And it also seems like you've got quite a nice little bit of sunlight where you are at the moment is it a nice day where you are yeah, the sun is shining in straight through the window here, so I was just enjoying the little spark. Amazing, amazing, um, yeah, so thanks so much for speaking with me. It's really interesting at the moment because you know you started off being classically trained and becoming a violinist. Then I guess I know you more as an electronic musician from having seen you live as well and through your music. Now it seems like you've been going full circle again and going back to exploring more classical structures or electroacoustic structures.

Speaker 2 6:26

Circles are beautiful. I think a lot of things are circling all the time and you're correct. I kind of have had different phases in my musical life and I have realized now the last 10 years where my approach to electronic music have been more and more improvised and more and more an exploration of creativity itself, both alone and together with others. I realized that these different phases in my musical background was in a way guided by reminders of creativity. So, like when I was really early and played organ and violin, it was kind of no borders, have an instrument, play around, have fun. And then, after several years in an institution, coming to a place where there were maybe other drives rather than creativity and the spark for that, maybe to achieve certain goals or to become better at certain things or to get confirmation from others you play really well, get confirmation from others, you play really well, you know, and and kind of external drives, um, which I think our world is very circling around, um. And then I had it was actually before I started with electronic music, I started with pop music, with the violin, um, and I had that moment of wow, I can just play, I don't need to do this and do that and follow this and I had this feeling of wow, this is so fun. So I had a period where I had a typical late teen pop band touring a little bit trying to get record deals etc. And then now when looking back to it I you know it was clear that that also got formulated and maybe again other drives than than actually playing started to become more relevant, and to me that is often worth. Slowly, this spark of very genuine playfulness can slowly freeze or die. It's not an on off switch, you know, these are energies that flows all the time. Um, and then I came to the electronic scene in in the 90s, to the ray parties, and started to dance and that's where also this kind of wow, I can dance in any way I want, and this feeling of freedom which I I truly believe creativity is.

Speaker 2 9:12

And then, of course, the electronic production became very kind of blocked and, you know, sitting in the range of view, and I got really bored of that. So yeah, I can talk a long time about that, but my process now is really improvised in the studio and I've really explored it in ways to really understand where I start to freeze and where I it's a little bit like an opening and closing and coming more and more close to feeling the opening and feeling the closing. You can actually take a step back when it's closing and it's opening again and allowing the spark and the creativity to play out. So I did that quite a lot alone and then the last yeah, maybe the last 8, 10 years, I also tried to involve different other musicians from different fields, everything from classical orchestras but also other electronic artists. I have the Circle of Life project.

Speaker 2 10:16

I also worked a lot in the studio with different electronic artists, with Henrik, with the Viola vocalists, singing songwriters. So I'm seeing in myself that I partly really love to invite people to play and to see how I can provide a space where they feel this playfulness, but also to continue to see. Like is this approach I have? Is this method? Does it work in different settings, different music styles and different environments, music with different function, if it's sleep concerts or techno nights or concert halls like the Barbican we did a few weeks ago. And so far I'm just confirming what I wish and hope and that is that creativity is always there and we just need to allow it to spark out and it happens, and that's this album with Henrik, was that exploration? You know me, together with one instrumentalist.

Speaker 1 11:24

Thank you so much for saying and explaining that. It's so interesting, and the way you talk about creativity and the way it seems to combine with your life and your journey. I've also sort of heard bits about your interest in Zen as well and I was wondering how that combines with you, because I get a sense, and I relate to this idea, that creativity and life combine together and they feed off each other as well. And and but what for you, is your journey with that from, say, maybe, being a musician to being someone that incorporates creativity as a sort of philosophy, I guess, in your life?

Speaker 2 12:08

Yeah. So that's interesting because I think for many of us a life approach can start in a philosophical way and, of course, when we talk about it it becomes philosophical. But creativity, or spirituality, or life in general, is the opposite to philosophy. To me, philosophy is when we intellectually think about it, talk about it, have ideas about it, and creativity, zen or any other spiritual tradition is to remember or to live in a way that we present the opposite to that. We are not thinking about it, we feel it, we live it, and in my creative exploration and my spiritual exploration, I don't see any difference in the two. It's not something you try to do, it's not a method, it's not an idea. It is to, in different ways, endless ways, come closer to the energies that run through you all the time, the energies that run through you all the time, the energies that makes us alive, and to actually express them and be with them and experience when they take form in different dimensions. If it's music, or if it's cutting wood, or if it's singing a song with your children, cooking a meal, going to the toilet, have a sex with your lover. We live in this moment and it's manifested through all these energies that pass through us. So for me, to make music or to create art is to explore that. So creativity is not something that we can look for or that is something that musicians have.

Speaker 2 14:08

Creativity is the very source of all of us. Everyone is as creative and some of us sometimes have an expression that, in this very moment, is more innovative. You know, we can have and we can be a painter and suddenly, in that frame of that time, that is like wow, that's groundbreaking, oh, it's so beautiful. But that is not being creative or not creative. We are creative when we give life to the energies we have and we feel them. So in this way, everyone is as creative. There's not such thing as a not creative person. And that have also been kind of the the core of of how I coach people to not to try to be creative, not think it, not make it philosophical. Live it, feel it, be there. When you make music, like I sit here, I don't have any screen in front of me, I have the speakers and I have my faders, I close my eyes and I taste the sounds. Yeah, yeah, I think to live life is to embody the energies that pass through us.

Speaker 1 15:29

That's very beautifully said. Do you feel as well embracing, in the last decade or so, the more improvisational aspects of music, coming from this classical background, which does require discipline and training and intellectual thought, as well as your early pop background, which also sort of requires like a sort of structural framework, and I think people kind of very underestimate how the intellectual processes that go into making something as structured as pop music. Has this been also sort of part of the journey of you in approaching improvisation as a way of releasing yourself from these structures, of how music had perhaps taken certain elements of your life or been involved with certain elements of your life?

Speaker 2 16:21

Yeah, it's like all styles and all you can say methods. To explore music or to give life to music requires different talents or different expertise or learning curve. To write a score, a classical piece, you need to understand how that works. To play a violin, you need to practice that. To start a computer and learn a software, you need to do that. And all that, of course, requires us practicing but also thinking. In some aspects we need to think about it. If we write a pop song, like you said, it has these different parts and elements. We need to put it together and rewrite it.

Speaker 2 17:10

And I think, as a human, we live a life that requires thinking and it requires an intellect in certain ways, depending also on what function or role we are playing at a certain moment. And that's no problem. And we are thinking all the time. You know that's part of us as much as we breathe and we have feelings. The thinking mind is a part of most humans or everyone I have ever met, and it's no problem, it's beautiful, I love to think about things and it's no problem, it's beautiful, I love to think about things.

Speaker 2 18:03

But I feel that the in many cases are based on a liner structure. You have a beginning, you have an end and you start to plan things, you start to calculate and you're like, okay, if we start like this, this can come there and suddenly we start to be philosophical or intellectual about music, for example. We're planning a piece of music, we're planning a piece of music, and this is a bit maybe confusing, but you can do that and be really connected to your creativity and play around with your thoughts as they are. You know, you're not really thinking them, you're feeling the thoughts and you play them out, you're free with them. But it can also be that you start to to not be really connected. You know there's not a connection between your thoughts and and your body and your feeling and and life. So then it becomes a kind of separated process of thinking about something which is disconnected from the rest of you and the thinking is just a little bit of us and there's many aspects of us that that makes us alive. Um, so that's one part where where this kind of separation can happen, and for me it have helped a lot to really distance myself from thinking about music at all, like an improvisational way, where I let arrangements take form in a complete improvisation, like, for example, the hidden track with me and Henrik.

Speaker 2 19:37

If you check the YouTube video that is happening, at that point Henrik haven't even heard a single sound what I was going to play. So in that video you can see him. At that point. Henrik hadn't even heard a single sound that I was going to play. So in that video you can see him listening like this. He didn't plan anything. What he plays came out in that very moment. He had never heard the music before, even though that music that I played was based on recordings I made with him before he was coming back to a soundscape, but he didn't recognize it. But it was his viola, which I had created a forest where he returned to and then played again. So back to the thinking. So I don't have any problem of having parts that are composing.

Speaker 2 20:29

I think composing and planning is also really part of a lot of things we do as human beings, but for me it's so relevant that it's the person who are creating and thinking is connected with the feeling, understanding when the separation happens. So for me that could be that I feel the separation and I feel that, and and to me it's a you know when, when being really close to your creativity in a certain moment, like if you're dancing or you're singing, and then you're getting out of it. It feels not nice, it's very clear. You know when, for example, imagine you're on a dance floor and everything is just perfect, it's uh, you don't even think that it's perfect because you're one with the dance and you understand when you're starting to get out of it, when it feels awkward and for me it's the same, that indication when I'm in the studio, you know I feel it. And then if I start to feel like, ah, it's normally when I start to think about it, I start to analyze it, or I start to judge myself, I start to compare something, or I start you know all kind of different patterns that comes from thinking. So when that happens, I take a step back and I think that connection with your creativity is very essential for for anyone in life, but for us working with music or art it's so important because then for me, that's when I take a step back, take a walk or go to the forest or just can be two seconds, take one little and then back to it and, for example, if we do a pop song, and for example, if we do a pop song.

Speaker 2 22:26

It's almost like I think today, when we use computers and visual blocks to create music, I think that's fine, but it's almost like people forget the last parts of the creation. For example, let's say I write a piece for a string orchestra or a string quartet, then I write all the sheets, blah, blah, blah, blah, but that's not the finished piece. That's the idea that can still be connected for me to feel it and be excited about it when I write it. But then there will be someone playing it. That's when it gets live. You know, it's interpreted in a certain moment by people. That plays it.

Speaker 2 23:14

And a lot of pop songs I hear on the radio a lot, a lot of techno songs I hear as well feels like someone thought them. I don't feel that they're alive. They are a plan, a product, and AI could do them exactly as good. They're not expressed with the presence. So for me, if you write a pop song, you need to find a way to really feel it when you record it. There are many pop songs that, of course, have that, but I think that's the important part. As a, a creator or musician or a composer, how do I invite to that space? So when the actual recording takes place. We feel it, and there are many, many ways to come to that part. But if we just record a little bass thing, put it in and then someone sing a little bit, it becomes a computer product, separated a bit from the spark of life.

Speaker 1 24:27

A little bit like what you're saying, though I could compare it to the difference between, on a film, a script being written and mapped out and the way a performer could bring a character to life. You know, they have to go away and interpret and feel it, and then they bring their life into what has already been done and it synergizes together yeah, that's a very good example and you mentioned as well there.

Speaker 1 24:58

I think it's really fascinating about knowing when to step away and understanding that there is, you know, like again it goes into this idea of cycles and circles as well but we can't, I don't really feel that we can be creative the whole time.

Speaker 1 25:13

This, you know just there's just as much as, like you know, you don't get flowers in most flowers in bloom the whole year round, and things like that. And you, you mentioned about little moments of stepping away when you do feel you need to. But I was also wondering what kind of advice you would give to people about dealing with these times that may be like the extent for a bit longer, or go a little bit deeper into us, where we can't feel that we can create, and I mean create in the in the broader sense as well. It doesn't have to be music, it could be just in terms of, like, how we connect with people, um, but you know what? What you know, when it starts to become a little bit of a problem in people's lives how, what it? What are the ways that people could find a way to kind of bring themselves back to that place?

Speaker 2 26:04

First of all, I think again, it's great to kind of define the word creativity.

Speaker 2 26:15

So people often in the Western world say that creativity and innovation is quite the same, or even creativity and being productive. There is a result, and I think that's where the problem starts Seeing creativity as something that should gain something. There is a result from it. So if we look at the world we live in or the moment we live in, I feel that there is a presence, the presence that both of us share.

Speaker 2 26:52

Now we are conscious about what each of us are saying and we are conscious about the situation and the reflections we get of feelings or physical sensations from the chair or scratching my hair. We're conscious and and in that consciousness we experience all these things, which is life. All this is life energies that pass through us and I like to take creativity all the way back to this and so to just sit here and feel these energies and feel that we are alive, that not noticing life now we're creative amazing, so it's always there, it's just yeah and this we can't measure, and I like to come back all the way back to something that is before we measure anything.

Speaker 2 27:53

So presence is there and life is there. We don't need to measure it. It's an allowing of something that is, we don't need to do anything, we just need to sit here, all is good Done, and then when we look around us and at us on our digital platforms or wherever we look, we see the manifestation of the universe we're sitting in. Every moment is an ongoing manifestation of something, a miracle I don't know how and why, but it's happening and that we can measure. So we can measure the world, our presence and our brain. Our brain is partly designed to measure, to be able to live as a human being. It puts what we measure in relationship to what we know. So human beings are really good at measuring things. So human beings are really good at measure things. I'm pretty sure that other beings or other species do not measure in the same way, but we do and it's part of why and how our societies looks and and what we do, and that we have all this crazy music gear and we can talk to each other on zoom. You know it's part of of measuring things. So it's beautiful, but I think the complication that leads into suffering and depression and sadness and separation between people, between cultures, between countries and all kind of shit that happens, comes that we fall into thinking that the world, the start of the world, or how we define the world, how we experience the world, is by measuring it. So the first step of living is to rest in what is not measured and understand that this is beautiful. And then we look out when we take in this beautiful world and when we need to measure it, we measure it. You know, I need two deciliters of water in my porridge. Cool, measure it. If you feel for it, it's no problem. But all the time your presence is before that, all the time your presence is before that, no-transcript. But before we play something, there is this presence and this creative energy is there all the time. And, as you said, with flowers and different seasons, I think that is also. You know, you can look at it, but certain moments have more energy that turns into something like more manifestation, like summer or spring have more energy in the blooming. So it might look like now is more creativity, now is more life. But if we look at physics or we look at how the universe works. There is no such thing as more or less energy. There is no such thing as more or less energy. The universe, how it changed and how it manifests and how it performs its beautiful ways, it's a transfer of energy. There is never, never more or less. So, um, there are different seasons, there are different moments, there are different moments, seasons of the year, seasons in nature, moments in human life. There are nights and there is day, and the energy levels or the flow of energy change. So certain moments we should maybe not try to push out flowers, but rather be a composting autumn that sits and contemplates and feels and breathes and just sends energies.

Speaker 2 32:11

I think most artists that become blocked and depressed are artists that push themselves to manifest something all the time, which also comes from a misunderstanding that we need to be creative by create things all the times. We kind of took, if we have a big circle of different creative energy flows, we took one that looks very attractive for a capitalistic world of being an artist and make products and release things and we feel like, okay, this is very good if I want an income, and that's also the problem of a capitalistic world, we live in it and you know, in one way I'm completely fine with any system and you know you can be happy and you can feel your creativity also in a capitalistic world. I don't know if there is another, better way, but I can see the problems with a capitalistic approach because everything becomes a product, everything is very measured and we try to achieve the things that generate growth. You know that's that's the drive behind capital, is that everything grows. We need to have a certain growth, not too much and not too little and we have all mechanics to control it.

Speaker 2 33:35

But when it comes to creativity, it's it's more like a perma mindset, it's a holistic. We have phases where we don't play. They are also as created and as needed for the process. We need all the cycles. So my recommendation for people is to start and find a way, and there's many different ways. So I don't want to try to advocate or promote one way, but find a way to just come back to that. That is not measured and all of us are, and what I often recommend people is that don't try to overdo it or go to crazy retreats or meditate five hours a day or because that's also so easily tap into this. Oh, I need to do it so much and I'm good at it.

Speaker 1 34:31

It becomes a product again yeah, because you're measuring how long you're doing something for yeah, oh, was I more meditative today than yesterday?

Speaker 2 34:40

Am I more creative today than yesterday? It's the mind comparing, being afraid of not being enough, and that means that you're not in that. That is not measured, because when you're there you don't care If you're thinking a lot and the meditation was a complete chaos. Cool, that's fine. All of us have those moments. We are humans.

Speaker 2 35:07

So find a way and for me, I like to, or I've been recommending people. I haven't heard if it's working or not. I haven't heard if it's working or not, but I have an idea that if people start to, instead of meditating a lot longer, things start to micro meditate, involve small, small meditations in between different doings, like, for example, before you do something, just come back to this presence, stay there two seconds. So do it before you play an instrument, do it before you pick up the phone, do it before you cook the food, do it in between each spoon of soup, just hmm. And if starting to do that, I mean you know it will also.

Speaker 2 36:01

Naturally it's a pattern and we are beautifully gifted with drugs as human people, human beings.

Speaker 2 36:09

You know our brains are just giving us so much injections of different endorphins and dopamines and hormones.

Speaker 2 36:20

You know, we are just a big pharmacy and the brain is designed to help us establish patterns.

Speaker 2 36:28

It also helps us to contain bad patterns, but it's plastic enough to actually, if we're just holding back a little bit, we can change patterns.

Speaker 2 36:38

So our brain is very plastic and we can actually design a little bit how these tracks are working on us so we can create patterns that are good. Hold back and see the patterns that are making us avoid things we love to do or things we want to share or whatever it is we want to share or whatever it is. So to do these micro meditations 20, 40, 100, 200 times a day will very quickly start to happen by themselves, because the brain will start to help us to give us a little pleasure kick every time we do it. And then they start to expand and they start to happen by themselves, which means that we slowly move the perspective of being in the measured world and thinking that this is it, this is where I need to perform, and more and more we come back to what's before the measured and we can still measure, and then suddenly we can play wrong, we can have fun, we do mistakes, it's fine.

Speaker 1 37:54

Yeah, I mean, I love this idea of micro-meditating as well and how that can expand.

Speaker 1 38:02

Naturally, I feel like in the context you're using it there as well, I can at least take away something that I relate to as well in terms of when I get cravings for external stimulus that instead micro-, micro meditation can actually give you instead.

Speaker 1 38:22

So you know, if I suddenly get like an urge, I'll get an email and I'll get an urge to have a cigarette because the email is a bit stressful, or I'll suddenly get an urge to have another coffee or something like that. And I'm not trying to discredit these pleasures which I think they are like that, and I'm not trying to discredit these pleasures which I think they are. But at the same time, I know that sometimes I'm reaching for things because I'm reaching for something external to bring into my life rather than go into myself to see, to kind of check myself back in, which is probably where I actually find the way to release the idea of stress, I guess yeah, micro meditations are, it's just a little opening and and there I think it's also easier to also stay with what's not comfortable, like you said.

Speaker 2 39:12

Like no, it's fine to have a cigarette, enjoy it, and especially when you have it, love it. You know it's great. We are, we are experiencing beings. We should experience and and feel. But also when, when, when, we end up in something that is not nice, if we are coming back to first where we are before measuring things, it's kind of easier. You know that what you don't like is not defining you, it's, it's happening in something deeper of you.

Speaker 2 39:45

And what I often do, because I also have a lot of cravings. I love bread, I love cinnamon rolls, I love coffee and, and I do, uh, enjoy them. I don't stay away but. But sometimes I have like a non-sugar half year or I have my detox periods. It's interesting how quick the craving stops and how easy they start again.

Speaker 2 40:11

But something that works for me is also to, when the craving come, come back to this place and then almost imagine that you, for example, eat the cinnamon ball or smoke a cigarette, like just go into it, like visualize that activity and enjoy it, and often that that the stimuli is enough. The brain kind of gets a kick of that as well, without getting the sugar or the nicotine on the coffee. Yeah, of course nicotine do have, you know, a certain physical effect as well, but I think it's hard to to separate the mental craving and and the kind of, like you said, wanting to feel an emptiness or like a stress, or something that feels like to eat, for example. You know it's feeding our childish, you know, oh, now it's nice. You know it's a very primal, basic need that can push away more intellectual stress, for example, and so to just actually think about it and visualize it can give you that same safety feeling and as actually doing it.

Speaker 1 41:35

Yeah, that's, that's lovely, and I guess this is what I'm interested in, as well as the, the way you know, with the philosophy that you have over life. I was wondering how that connects with you with the actual textural, sound, say, of the music that you make you know, say, for example, with using like analog instruments or with using violin as well as. Is there something in terms of like the kind of the patterns of the music or the, the textures of the music that you draw on and connect with your philosophy?

Speaker 2 42:13

yeah, my process is is so bad, it's so so, um, not so bad. It's so depending or involving my spark for things and it's a lot of attraction in the process and I think our body sensations is working a lot with attraction. So, with sounds, for example, or an activity with sounds, I try to guide myself and I do what I want to do. I'm not trying to do something I'm not up for. So, naturally, this has also started to really change how you sound, because this is not something static. It's also changing, but there are some root elements in my music making that I'm starting to realize. Maybe it will change again, but I love to create these sound beds where people can be in. It's almost like I love to create rooms and welcome people to it, and my solo music is quite sparse. In that way, I leave a lot out for the listener. So it's more like a place to be and for someone to explore what they feel or add what they feel. If I work with someone else and I think the Hind song, for example and it's great to see that video because that is actually when it was recorded. There's nothing added afterwards. It's exactly how it happened. Is that video the same video that is on the record. What I play is this room.

Speaker 2 43:58

My way of working in the studio is that I I have different steps and the first step is just to blend sounds, make textures, make loops, blend the loops and put things in and out of analog gear into tape recorders and I just I just listen to the spark of it. But it's also quite mechanical. It's a combination of playing what I love with shopping wood. It has a very clear result because I'm doing, things happens and I realized in my body that I relax when I have this ongoing man trick. It's it becomes a meditation, which also then makes me come in and feel the music more and more.

Speaker 2 44:49

But in this process then all these sounds are created and and in this setting with with henrik, as I said before, I start with he coming here, we're in the forest, blah blah, blah blah. Put on the microphone, he plays something. I just create a little place for him to play and then he leaves and then I work with these sounds and start having this workflow with it, and then I have a sketch coming up and it's around 12 sounds. So I have kind of looped sounds on 12 channels which I then can bring up and down. And then Henry comes back and he haven't heard anything, so he don't know what they're going to play. And I start to play it and then he play like very spontaneously on top of it, in a very instant feeling. So for me it's almost like a sketch.

Speaker 2 45:52

All the sounds I've made is almost like the ground, the soil or the compost, of composting his recording into something that is alive, and then he becomes the flower when he plays again on top of it. Yeah, but it's the same source, like in that song. It's the only thing that is not his viola is the little drum loop, but the rest is just his viola is the little drum loop, but the rest is just his viola, and all the different parts, the bases, everything comes from his viola originally. So that also creates a very holistic or parma kind of soundscape, because it's not a lot of different sources from different places. It is one thing that have come to life, um, um, I forgot the question no, no, I was just going with the.

Speaker 1 46:52

It's totally fine, it was just going with the flow of it. So it was kind of about like, and I think you answered oh you, there was an interpretation anyway, which is is really amazing, but it was about how you relate your philosophy to the textures that you use. Yeah, you did. Yeah, I love textures.

Speaker 2 47:11

That's also one thing. Yeah, often, because I live, you know, just next to the forest, a big natural park, and I'm out there most days and just you know the textures of trees and ground and I just love it and I feel the sounds in the studio is also like that. You know you're creating these things and for me it's something that same, like when I talked about patterns in a pop song. You have to find your ways from things being dead and then you work with them and suddenly they live. And that's what I'm waiting for in my process. Suddenly, things start to live. And I think that's also where I feel what is guiding me, like when I'm ready or when I feel to move on, it's that I feel that now it's alive.

Speaker 1 48:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like a doctor in a way, Like you know, like okay, it's almost like it's a doll, sitting like this and then working with it.

Speaker 2 48:18

suddenly it starts to move.

Speaker 1 48:20

So suddenly it's alive by itself and you start to move, and then I can leave because I saw you play at funk house um in berlin, which was, I think it was, in 2018 um, I might be wrong and also reading about circle of Life and sometimes the lengths of these performances as well, and the changing number of musicians as well that would go out and do these things, and how they'd all be improvised for. Is there something that you sort of like look for in terms of that, like a sweet spot, you know, and working with these different combinations of people as well, because sometimes people will come in and they're new to new to the improvisation that you have been doing, you know, doing I. I was wondering how you related to that people, the venue, the length of time, all of these different elements.

Speaker 2 49:27

Really yeah, so, yeah, every moment is defined. You know, first of all, as us you know the unmeasured we are are present and then we are in something, so that could be a venue and an audience or other musicians, and a certain time frame or a set, etc. And the whole idea behind Circle of Life was that I tried to see if my ways of allowing creativity in the studio and also by myself on stage. Can I be a bit radical and create something where I honour this with no exceptions and see what happens and in a way, to allow creativity is also to understand certain things, just to admit and be honest with what you need to allow the creative flow and what makes you block it. And to me, the the first main idea with circle of life is to invite people to do whatever they want. A very welcoming and warm attitude. A very welcoming and warm attitude like no restrictions, no demands, no, you know super guidebook, like this is what we do, this is not what we do, but kind of a very open, warm invitation come, be you. And then, of course, there have been moments where someone feels a bit stressed of just being you. So there are times where I feel, with a specific group of artists that, okay, let's have a little narrative, let's have a little plan, because someone feels that they need that. So it's kind of you know, there is no demand. But if I feel that there is a need, if it's talking or if it's hugging or if it's a plan, let's do what we need and be open about it.

Speaker 2 51:32

The length of time is that I feel that when I need to deliver something in the short term, that's when I start to push things. That's a typical example for me. When I start to hinder that natural thing to happen, I start to okay, and then it's not happening. So the long sets was a way to kind of overcome that. Okay, if I have six hours or eight hours, okay, let's take it easy. Let's have the first hour with just a pad and suddenly you know these things that might come in the way for me relax. So in a way, it's to to see how can we invite ourselves to a situation where we are allowing things to happen, rather than to play something we planned or to push ourselves into something that we think is required, that the audience want or the promoter want, or the media want, or people think this is innovative or not. How can we get away from all these mind games and see, is it enough to just see what happens and play that?

Speaker 2 52:55

And then now we're doing more of the Circle of Life in concert, like the one we did at Barbican, which are shorter and also involve a blend of electronic artists and instrumentalists. So that's a situation where it's a little bit different. We have a seated. Barbican was 2,000 people sitting down not being able to move. It's a bit more challenging to have eight hours, so there you need a bit shorter.

Speaker 2 53:27

So I'm ongoing and then feeling and trying how can I keep this warm approach? So there, for example, that was, everyone could play whatever they wanted, but there was a narrative. So there were different parts with certain keys, scales and tempos and we moved through them and so it helped us to not lose ourselves too long in something and I don't mind having kind of these things if they help me, but not when they block me. So, yeah, ongoing feeling and also when I play circle of life, I'm not alone. So I need to feel, or try to feel, like how is this helping someone else? And, and most of the time the people I play with are quite similar in that sense. You know there are some. It feels like there are some rude ways of allowing people to feel. You know it's also to just see people and welcome people. People relax. You know it's like when you hang out with people and you socialise. If you tell people what to do, sit up, stand up, you know you have no friends. Yeah.

Speaker 1 54:42

There's certain universal ways that people can feel comfortable or people can be annoyed with someone really yeah.

Speaker 2 54:52

So yeah, the circle of life continues as well and it's also an ongoing involvement, but kind of based on my exploration, on my creativity and how to allow that in different settings yeah, sebastian, thank you so much for talking with me this afternoon.

Speaker 1 55:13

Thank you, thank you. Okay. So that was Sebastian Mullert in conversation with me, paul Hanford for Lost and Sound podcast, and we had that chat on the 22nd of March 2024. Thank you so much, sebastian, for sharing your thoughts there. The album Hind Sebastian's collaboration with Henrik Frenden is released on the 24th of May via L'Amour Records, and Lost in Sound is sponsored by audio technica.

Speaker 1 55:40

Audio technica, a global but still family run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones. They make studio quality yet affordable products because they believe that high quality audio should be accessible to all. So head on over to audio technicacom wherever you are in the world. My book coming to berlin is available in all good bookshops. Well, when I say all good bookshops, a lot of good bookshops, anyway, are via velocity press, the publisher's website, and thanks to thomas kittens as well for doing the music that you hear at the beginning, at the end, of every episode of lost and sound. Thanks so much for listening. I hope you're having a wonderful day, whatever you're doing, and I look forward to chatting to you again soon. Thank you.