Jake Hamilton | Saving My Marriage & Embracing True Leadership

Ever wondered what happens when a career milestone coincides with a personal crisis? Join us as we sit down with Jake Hamilton, formerly of Bethel and Jesus Culture, who opens up about the year 2010 when his marriage almost crumbled despite his professional achievements. Through raw and honest storytelling, Jake shares how he and his wife navigated the choppy waters of a near-divorce, ultimately emerging stronger and more united. Today, they are passionate advocates for men and marriages, believing that strengthening men can fortify entire families.

Listen as Jake walks us through a gut-wrenching conversation with his wife that shattered his illusions of selflessness. His moment of reckoning, faced with a harsh critique, became the catalyst for profound personal growth. Humbling himself, Jake embraced his weaknesses, leading to significant changes as a man, husband, father, and leader. He underscores the importance of empathy, sacrifice, and truly listening to one’s partner, sharing how these elements were crucial in rebuilding his marriage.

We also unpack the challenge of living out the principles of 1 Corinthians 13 in personal relationships, especially within the sanctity of marriage. Jake speaks candidly about the struggle to embody patience and kindness, revealing how a nine-year journey of sacrifice and transformation led him to a better place. Addressing broader issues like church leadership hypocrisy and the need for integrity at home, Jake emphasizes that true leadership starts within the family. Finally, we touch on the concept of male identity and emotional healing, highlighting the significance of therapy for men navigating the complexities of modern life.

Welcome to the ATLG podcast I am your host Ken Joslin, former pastor turned coach & host of CREATE, the #1 Faith-based Entrepreneur conference in America. My mission is to help faith-based entrepreneurs become the best version of themselves by growing in our Core 5: Faith, Health, Relationships, Business & Finances. You can get more information as well as join our FREE Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/676347099851525

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it on social media and tag Ken Joslin.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:46

Hey, what's up guys? Welcome to another episode of as the Leader Grows. I am your host, ken Jocelyn. I don't even know how to explain this story. I was watching an Instagram reel last week with this guy and his wife and it was one of those where I was so like holy cow, this is so good and I'll let you tell the story here in just a minute, but it was one of those that moved me so much I shared it. And then I get an email from his team that goes hey, jake Hamilton saw that you did this. He would love to be on your podcast. And I'm like can't be the Jake Hamilton I know of, like cause I haven't heard this guy's name in forever. And I so I look him up and I'm like holy cow, it's Jake Hamilton for Bethel. You used to lead worship. Heck, we did his songs in our church. So we hop on a, we hop on our zoom call today and I'm staring at Jake Hamilton. Jake, dude, what's up?

Speaker 2: 1:42

bro. Hey, how are you doing, man? Thanks so much for having me on. Seriously, I love the wild story of how things end up happening when you just follow the thread.

Speaker 1: 1:51

Oh crazy dude, it's, it is, it's, it's absolutely, it's absolutely insane Talk about. So the video that I posted the other day I shared it on my Instagram was um, I guess you and your wife are doing a little podcast or some teaching and some stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 2:05

Honestly, what we've been doing is we kind of just started getting together. We hired a company to help us sort of flush out the content for all the men's stuff we're doing. We've done a lot of stuff for men and marriage for the last, I think, decade. The short version of that is our marriage kind of fell apart in 2010 when I played like the largest event I had ever played in Chicago with Jesus Culture played that and my marriage fell apart. There was no addiction, no alcohol, no drugs, no pornography, no adultery, just a workaholic who was in church and if you're a workaholic in church you get applauded, so that's really great, and so I was getting applauded a ton for working really hard and my marriage fell apart.

Speaker 2: 2:47

And in the restructuring of that, of the refiguring out how to prefer my family, we ended up recognizing how many other families were in the same position. We were where they wanted to do it well, but they just didn't have the tools. So we started working with couples and along the way, someone told us hey, if you really want to save marriages, you better go get men, and if you can get a man, you can get a home and you can get a marriage and you can get a family and I was like that sounds lame but sweet. You know what I mean. Like it's a great idea, but most men's stuff, I was like not really for me.

Speaker 1: 3:18

Yeah, it wasn't, yeah, and so long story short.

Speaker 2: 3:21

We started running with this thing called the fight that we're building out and that led to us sitting together and just me and my wife having conversations. There's no podcast, it's not connected to anything. It literally is two cameras in a room and me and my wife talking about the stuff that's impacted us.

Speaker 1: 3:37

And one of the things she asked you that question, that's it. What would you do for me?

Speaker 2: 3:43

She said specifically what is the pain that you would take away from me? But because the reason I connected to that story is because in 2010 till now, I have explored my wife's story enough to know her deepest pains and know what she needs care for. And that deep pain that I would take away from her is the fact that, no matter how much I pursue her because she did not have a father in the home, she ultimately is always going to feel some degree of lack of safety and going to feel alone. And no matter how hard I try or how good of a husband I am, that wounding I didn't give her, so I can't take it away.

Speaker 1: 4:23

Dude, I love that, and so let me, let me rewind just a little bit. Jake, so you guys are doing your biggest show you've ever done. You're just serving God. You're doing the deal Because we talk a lot off air, literally for probably 10 or 15 minutes, and I was like holy cow, we haven't done a good job in the church at reaching men at a level that connects with especially high performing men who have an entrepreneurial spirit, which you do so you're. So you're with, you're with the guys, you're doing this thing with Jesus culture and you walk off stage to walk me through. What was the conversation Like? Did your wife just say, hey, I ain't doing this anymore?

Speaker 2: 5:07

The short version is I'd been traveling a ton so which, again in our world, was like, dude, you're killing it. You're traveling the world, You're putting on a hundred thousand, 200,000 miles a year on flights. You are serving the Lord, you are amazing. And and the next morning, like so I was gone two weeks leading up to this event. And I'll tell you what, man, when I was 18 years old, I know I heard the audible voice of God tell me that I'm going to write the songs the whole world would sing. I know that. I heard that.

Speaker 2: 5:35

And now I'm standing in front of almost 20,000 people and I'm like, oh, this is that. And then the next morning, my wife because we hadn't spent much time together in two weeks because I was traveling sits with a dad and the dad goes how are you doing? Addressing my wife, how are you actually doing? But she didn't have a dad and I watched my wife, who does not cry, who's very strong, just crumble and weep. And we sat with a leader for, like, I think it was about four hours, four or five hours, and she just ripped into me for about five hours.

Speaker 1: 6:12

When you saw, when you saw your wife cry after he asked her that question, tell me what your heart? Where was your heart? How'd your heart feel?

Speaker 2: 6:20

We talk about this story a ton, and what's insane about it is I knew it wasn't working, but I didn't not love my wife. I wasn't trying to make her feel that's and this is the position most men are in, and women need to understand this, because most men are not trying to do a crappy job of loving their wives. They're genuinely trying. As dysfunctional or as immature as it might be, I'm like I'm serving God. I'm not like like there's no hidden sin or junk behind me that I'm carrying, Like I'm trying to do this well and it's still not connecting. And what it made me feel is deeply, deeply sad for the fact that we got here and I had no tools to lead us any further than where we were in that room, right there. That is where that is the beginning, middle and end of my leadership capability in my house was right there and I had to. I had two options. I could either be like screw you, you must be crazy because I'm serving the Lord and everybody out there thinks I'm awesome, I'm Jake Hamilton.

Speaker 1: 7:32

right, I know, right, exactly.

Speaker 2: 7:36

Yeah, I am royalty, I have destiny, I have been set.

Speaker 2: 7:38

I sing the song you know and it's like I could throw down or I could get low and I'll never forget sliding off. We were sitting on the couch, guys talking to us, and he told me. He just looked straight at me and goes you are a selfish butthole, but more directive than that. And he just straight told me, and I slid onto the ground and sat below my wife and sat below them and she just for hours. And I was like I have to take this hit. If I'm going to grow, if I'm going to learn, I have to take this hit.

Speaker 2: 8:15

And I meet tons of guys who they'll spend four hours a day in the gym and talk about health but can't do 40 minutes with their wife and have a deep conversation. So where's your strength really at? And that was what I was learning in that moment was I was learning my weaknesses in order to recognize where I could grow as a man, as a husband, as a father and as a leader. And I had to submit to that, even though most of it, by the way, now when we talk about it, it's not like she's like yes, and all of that I said that day was absolutely correct. Really, most of it, she said, was her putting the face of every man that had hurt her, every man that had wronged her. I had to take that hit, and that was my privilege and my honor to do so.

Speaker 1: 9:02

When she was doing that, Jake, how much empathy. What was your heart, what kind of? What was the position of your heart during that time?

Speaker 2: 9:12

Context is simply this I had a very and I still, to this day, carry a very strong message in my heart for the value of pain and suffering and the reality that death is not an enemy, it is an ally. If death was conquered, then it is not an enemy anymore, it is an ally, leading me to greater levels of growth. And when my bank account is dying, it's because there's about to be a rebirth. If my job is ending, it's because there's about to be a rebirth If something is falling apart. So that is my mindset in pretty much life. And we have a daughter. Just context to again my daughter was born with cerebral palsy. She was diagnosed at 15 months so she doesn't walk, she's cognitive and all those things and it's and she's been like the greatest blessing in our whole life. But all of that gave me context to go. When she's hitting me with this, I'm thinking about me, Cause I am still insanely selfish.

Speaker 1: 10:07

I'm going like cause I'm a man too. I'm like me, because I am still insanely selfish. I'm going like, because I'm a man too. I'm like how do I?

Speaker 2: 10:10

fix this? How do I figure this out? What do I do? What's happening here? How did I screw this up when I didn't even know I was screwing it up? But then, as she just got angrier and angrier, I was like this isn't the woman I married. This isn't the woman I married. This is the little girl behind that woman that's never had someone sit at her feet and take a punch for her. And I'm like, oh, this is what I have to do and I knew it. In that moment. I was like I can't go up to everybody and tell them sacrifice is valuable, pain is valuable, death is an ally. I can't say those things. And then, the moment it shows up in the hardest places in my life, not take that hit. And that was what it was. I looked at it like I was in a. I was in a sparring match and I had to. If she's going to get stronger and I'm going to get stronger I have to hear everything she's going to say and so how long?

Speaker 1: 11:08

how long out of that, jake, did you guys go and realize? And you said it all fair and there's a lot of men that are in the same spot. I'm in there are a lot of guys that we just we froze. I'm not sure exactly what happened, that's how long, we'll edit it and cut it, but how long after you guys had that time together, did you realize, man, I'm not the only man that's struggling like this? Okay, so we're not the only marriage that's struggling like this.

Speaker 2: 12:03

So me and my wife are completely open books, okay. So like, if you ask us about anything, we're pretty much going to tell you every detail of our lives because we're just completely open books. So for my job, for a living, I was traveling, doing music, preaching all those things. So it was about. It took us about maybe three or four months and that was just financial, of like I'm doing nothing and us reconnecting and me sleeping down on the couch and giving her tons of space for like the first, I'm going to say two, three, four weeks. Then there was a click where she realized okay, he heard me, he heard me and he's not trying to fix this. He's trying because basically, the Lord took me to and this gets really preachy. But the bottom line is I end up in first corinthians 13 and I'm like, and I read the whole thing and I all I get a sense that the lord. I just felt like again super cheesy to me, but I'm like, I immediately you're like to be losing.

Speaker 1: 13:22

I lost you again, my friend.

Speaker 2: 13:24

Dang, I'm on my hard line. I don't know how that happened. No, no, no.

Speaker 1: 13:27

Yeah, I just checked my no, I don't know that it's you, I don't know that it's not me. For some reason my internet is and it's. I have like gig. It's fast, so anyway. So you're down on the couch. You're reading through 1 Corinthians 13.

Speaker 2: 13:41

Bottom line is I just look through, I'm looking through 1 Corinthians 13 and I recognize I'm none of these. I'm not patient, I'm not kind, I'm like the opposite of all these, as I'm driving this train of my life forward and I recognize that this is a pathway, and the first pathway is purpose. So I or is patience. So I just literally set up was like okay, well, we're eight years into our marriage at this point, almost nine years in. So for the next nine years, I'm going to offer my life as a sacrifice to my wife, in the same way that she's been sacrificing, because I didn't know how to love her. And if I get nothing out of this for nine years I'm talking no sex, no connection, no whatever.

Speaker 2: 14:23

Can I make it nine years to offer her that which she has offered me? I'm going to give that to her and I'm, over the course of that, going to become the man that I know I can be. And I'm going to do the work, not for her but for me, to become who I was supposed to become. And if I become who I was meant to become, maybe she'll turn her heart towards me again. And so, as we went back to work and I had a few things to go, like play at that were just on the schedule and we had to make some money. Um, we go and start telling in these green rooms. You know people are like, how are you guys doing? We're like, oh dude, it's crazy, everything sucks. Our marriage fell apart.

Speaker 1: 15:08

And here's the whole story. Did they not look at you and be like hang on a minute, because you know how it is dude in church when they ask they don't really want to know?

Speaker 2: 15:15

No, dude, it was. But here's the crazy part they would same thing every time. They would do this. This is how we knew it was a problem is everyone was like this like oh, um, uh, uh, uh, yeah, Dang, that's wild, Can't believe? That's awkward. Can we talk to you guys afterwards?

Speaker 1: 15:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:34

Every time yeah, every time. They were like can we meet with you afterwards? Awkward, weird, let's not talk about it, but everyone wanted to have a conversation.

Speaker 1: 15:44

Let me ask you, why do you think the church as a whole stamps that and goes man, you love Jesus more because you're sacrificing the things that when you said when you went to 1 Corinthians 13,. You're like I'm not patient, I'm not kind, I'm not all the things. Why do you think there is this? Well, there's two things. I think that we can talk about Number one, that they just they look at that like, oh my God, man, you love God. Look at how much you're serving, look how many miles you phone, look at the stages you're on, look at the number of people you're in. And not only that, but you know how it is, bro. When you ask somebody, how are you doing? You ain't looking for fucking dude. It sucks. This is terrible. I've been sleeping on the couch for three weeks. They're like we don't know how to deal with it.

Speaker 2: 16:38

That's right. My short answer is when your definition of kingdom looks more like a business than it does a family, you can never live out the things that God actually desires for you to live out. That's it. First. Corinthians does not work in the context of a business. It works in the context of a family, and then you can bring it into your business, but you cannot do it the opposite. You cannot do it the opposite.

Speaker 1: 17:02

That's good, that's that's strong, that's that's strong.

Speaker 2: 17:06

And I'm watching a lot of leaders try to learn in their business what they won't do at home, and that is when it starts to fall apart, because they're trying to figure out how do I do it. I want to run my business with integrity. I want to be like super connected. I want to make sure that my, the people that are working for me, have purpose, that they feel cared for, that they feel looked after, that they feel seen, that they feel heard. And I would turn around almost every time. Right now I go.

Speaker 2: 17:32

Does your wife have all of that yet? If she does not, then you will never be able to offer it to your business ever. It will always be a farce, it will always be a performance, it will always be fake and it will never produce the fruit that you're actually looking to produce, because you can only learn that in your home. I would tell guys in ministry all the time it's like dude, it's not impressive to buy a plane ticket. People think they're heroes because they bought a plane ticket for 3,000 miles around the world to minister to strangers, but those same dudes won't walk 30 feet across their own living room to minister to their own wife. So your life is complete and utter BS and everyone knows it, but no one wants to say anything because we like the propaganda.

Speaker 2: 18:22

The propaganda pays bills. Yeah, it just does. And that's what's so difficult. And we're watching it fall apart. We're watching the fallout of this man all over the church and no wonder we have. And then we're going to go and tell people like then we're going to go and tell people about gay marriage and about LGBTQ, add a thousand things. We're going to be a voice into that when we can't even hold our own marriages together.

Speaker 1: 18:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:51

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be a voice into that. What I'm saying is do it in your home first.

Speaker 1: 18:58

You know, erwin. Erwin got up. Erwin got up at create this year. He was. He was mad at me because I asked him to do faith. He wanted to talk about business. No, he was. He was Erwin. If you're listening to this, bro, I love you. He was not happy with me. He was like I told you I didn't want to do faith. I'm like, I mean, bro, I'm like he's been my favorite communicator for probably 20 years.

Speaker 2: 19:19

He was a big part of when we planted. We had planted an emergent church, so when they first planted Mosaic we were down there with a little team.

Speaker 1: 19:26

So yeah, so I'm like, but so he did. He did and fought me on it a little bit. But, dude, he talked about how, in the Western culture, in the church, we've taken the word the gospel and we've made it synonymous with the word easy. Come to Jesus, everything will be good. You come to Jesus, everything's going to be easy. You come to Jesus, oh, it's going to be. He's like man. It could not be further from the truth, dude tell me this we have.

Speaker 2: 19:56

What do we call it? When somebody comes up at the end of a service, we do a what, what's it called? Altar call? What do you do on an altar sacrifice? If you came to take something off the altar, you're in sin and would be stoned to death. That is where you go to die, not to receive. Yeah, and we? The language is all fractured because we don't value what I said earlier. We don't value pain, we don't value suffering. But if we're going to actually become the people we want to become, that we were meant to become, to have the marriages we were meant to have, to have the businesses that are recession-proof, that are government-proof, if we want businesses that sustain in and out of season, we have to find a new mode of operation that values pain, suffering and sacrifice and recognize it as an invitation and potential, not limitation. If we see it as invitation and not limitation, the moment pain and suffering, sacrifice, shows up, we'll go. I'm going to. There's something new happening. I'm in.

Speaker 1: 21:14

Do you think that one, jake, one of the reasons we don't do that is because in the church we're afraid to tell people when something's going on like that, like in your marriage.

Speaker 2: 21:25

Oh, dude, I think it's not just we're—we are so afraid of the house of mirrors we built. We're just terrified. We're living in anxiety. We're living in depression. We're living in depression, we're living in, we're living in fear. And all these leaders are running around afraid someone is going to look in their closet because, they're addicted to Ambien, they can't sleep.

Speaker 2: 21:55

Everyone's taking all these drugs every single day to sleep, to numb out, to cope. I'm like, guys, there is other options, but it's a hard road, that is. And again, dude, let me be super kind, let me be very, very kind. I get it Like let's not do that. Like. I get it Like let me just tell you that Jesus is going to make it all better and you're going to be fine.

Speaker 1: 22:20

That is it, Dude that sells way more books.

Speaker 2: 22:22

Let's just be real honest.

Speaker 1: 22:24

You're right, you're right.

Speaker 2: 22:24

Five Steps to a Better Life in Jesus is going to be way more of a bestseller than come. Take the hardest path of your entire life to sacrifice and suffer in ways you've never thought imaginable, to become the person you want to become.

Speaker 1: 22:37

That's just you know it's. It's crazy because I just I just had a buddy of mine on yesterday. He's the one of the top home builders in orange County. Oh, come on, two years ago tried to take his own life. And this is male. This is male. Suicide prevention month yeah, 80, 80% of all people that commit suicide are men. Yes, the number one cause of death in men under 50 is suicide. Right, and I'll be really honest with you, and again, I don't. Obviously this is neither one of our hearts. This isn't a bash. The church session.

Speaker 2: 23:07

Oh God, no, I wouldn't be here without it.

Speaker 1: 23:09

We don't do a good job at saying it's okay if you're not okay, like it's okay if you are struggling with depression or struggling with anxiety, because 80% of all suicides are men 50% of men or men under 50, the number one cause for the number one cause of death with men under 50 is suicide. I lost you again, my friend wild. The number one cause you keep going yeah, no, I just said the number one cause of death under men under 50 is they is suicide. They take their own life and that that's what Keith talked about yesterday. He was like you know, I'm supposed to be in this position in my life, dude, I'm making millions of dollars, I'm connected in church and I am miserable with really the feeling that there's no outlet for me to go. Hey, pastor, I'm struggling.

Speaker 2: 24:59

There it is, dude. I'm telling you, ken, that is it All the fight is trying to build. If I'm trying to build anything, all I'm trying to build is a place where men can belong before they believe and before they behave. Because the way that the church structure works, because we need people to help make the system work right, like we just need it, and if we're not going to call it a business, then it just becomes a manipulative in some ways. But what we're trying to do is we need bodies, we need people, we need money to make the thing happen. Totally understand all of that. But in a lot of ways we want people to behave so that then they can believe and then, once they behave and believe, they're allowed to belong. Jesus did it the exact opposite. It's belong, then they start to believe, then they'll behave. All we're trying to do with the fight is give men a place to belong.

Speaker 2: 25:52

We don't even talk about pornography, why it's irrelevant. Pornography is a fruit issue, not a root issue. So I'm not trying to deal with your pornography issue, because why the hell would I do that? When it's coming from a place of deep lack of purpose and knowing what your worth and value is. It has nothing to do Most men. I get that there are some with addictive behaviors. All of those things totally get that we're not building this on.

Speaker 1: 26:18

The those things totally get that, but we don't, we're not building this on the, you know they have nowhere where they actually will feel covered and like they actually belong.

Speaker 2: 26:39

And that is what we're trying to build. I believe is what my heart is in the midst of. What we're going after is giving a place where men can come in and go. Here is all my crap, which, by the way, we've done 12 weekends. We call them fight weekends. They're limited to like 12, 15 guys and sometimes it is a fight because we use a lot of. We use a lot of role playing, so we'll get it gets real physical. It's really really built around that masculine energy and we want it to feel that way. We want it to feel a little dangerous. We want it to feel a little bit like you don't know what you're walking into but you can say whatever you want, say whatever you want, and we are going to have your back.

Speaker 1: 27:24

I love how Jordan Peterson talks about masculinity in the fact that real masculinity is a man who is dangerous but chooses to restrain himself. That's right. It is a man who understands his power and ability. But when he needs to sit at the feet of his wife because he's been selfish, he's like you know what, hey, I've got to take this for her.

Speaker 2: 27:49

Yeah, there's a great book called King Warrior, magician Lover, it's the four archetypes of magic. Thank you, this has to be on my end. I have to go figure this out. That is so wild it might be just because it's like now 100 degrees in reading, now, once it starts getting hot, everything just shuts down, but there's a book called King warrior, magician lover.

Speaker 2: 28:55

That is exactly where I think Jordan even gets a lot of his language from, because there's the immature. The immature warrior is the hero where he's out to do heroic exploits for himself, but a warrior is submitted to a cause higher than himself and we need men who are tempered into warriors, not just trying to be heroes of their own story, because heroes of your own story doesn't make good wise elders long-term in life, and that's what we need. We need elders who are living not for themselves and showing us a path that's better than selfish ambition.

Speaker 1: 29:26

Well, the majority of guys that are living for themselves are doing it because they're still trying to figure out what their identity is. Who am I? What is this all about? Can I you know? I failed at this, or I didn't do this well, or somebody told me this. My mom or dad wasn't there, like you talked about that video. Who am I? And so they're out constantly trying to prove and prove and prove.

Speaker 2: 29:48

And that's because men have not gone through initiation. We lost all rites of passage and all tribal initiation. It's gone in Western culture and tribal initiation answers three questions who am I, where is my tribe, and what do I do with my pain? That's it. That is what initiation provided when a young boy went through a really hard thing and there's tons of them that we talk about and we explore a bunch of them but when you don't have who am I, who is my tribe, where is my tribe, and what do I do with my pain I'm left to fumble through that into my 40s.

Speaker 2: 30:25

And then, by the time I hit 40s, I hit a crisis of limitation where now I don't have enough years left to accomplish all I thought I was going to accomplish or enough money to accomplish all I thought I was going to accomplish. And now I either go into well, I'm just going to keep trying to be a hero for the rest of my life which is ugly and egocentric, or everything's crap and it sucks. So just forget everything and you become cynical. Or you choose to spend the second half of your life giving your life away, so others accomplish all the things that you weren't able to get to. My life should be lived so that I'm a resource to others and that becomes the centrality of my identity, not what I've accomplished or achieved or own.

Speaker 1: 31:10

I love it. Dude. One of the things for me and my story and I'm sure we'll get to talk about this later as well is, at 52 years old, coming off of a 27-year marriage that ended a lot because of ministry. I mean a lot because of ministry. I was in ministry for 15 years, full-time vocational ministry. Coming off that the first time with a new therapist. I mean you know ministry, I mean I'm in therapy all the time. Therapy is just part of what you do, right.

Speaker 1: 31:36

Christian counseling, yeah. And so I'm sitting in this therapy session with Maxine she's my therapist and I tell people she's like a mild version of Medea. She's an older black lady and she's hilarious. I walk in. She tell people she's like a mild version of Medea, she's an older black lady, she's hilarious. I walk in. She's like how are you and Jesus doing this week? I'm like we're good. And so the first time I go in and I sit down with her, jake, she goes, tell me your story. And I said I was born in Detroit, raised there until I was eight. Parents got divorced.

Speaker 1: 32:04

When I was in second grade to my senior year of high school, I moved back and forth to my dad six different times. I went to 12 schools and I went to six different high schools. And she's right now she goes, honey, she goes. Why did you move so many times? I said I didn't have a choice. I said anytime I got in trouble, my mom would say go, pack a bag. And I had 24 to 48 hours and I was on a bus, a plane, and my dad was on the way from Michigan to pick me up.

Speaker 1: 32:27

And I'm telling you, dude, august 22, 1993 is the day I gave my life to Christ. And this was the second biggest aha moment of my life At 51, 52,. She looked at me and she goes Ken, how do you think that's affected your relationship with the women in your life who are supposed to love and protect you? And, bro, I lost it. I lost it A week and a half. Two weeks earlier I was in San Francisco. I dated a girl that I love very much for a year and a half from Santa Rosa. We didn't even make it across the bridge going north. We had an argument. I made her pull the car over, I got my suitcase out and I left. And here was a 50-year-old man, 52-year-old man, living out the trauma of a 12-year-old boy for 40 years and I had no idea, bro been in ministry, I've been doing it all and here was a 50-plus-year-old man living out the trauma of a 12-year-old boy.

Speaker 1: 34:11

My team is going to love me for having to chop this thing back together. This is just. It's a test of will. Now I said my team, you got off.

Speaker 2: 34:15

And I said my team is going to love me because they're going to have to chop this whole thing up, I was like, oh my gosh, but you're living out of the trauma of a 12 year old.

Speaker 1: 34:23

They had no idea. And so now, when I do my conference, my therapist, or one of my therapists or one of my therapist friends, is always there. So two years ago, right behind John Maxwell, I get up and share my story, just like this 350, 400 entrepreneur, faith-based entrepreneurs, and I'm sharing that story with my therapist sitting next to me. That's it. And, dude, there wasn't a dry eye in the place. So part of what I know that God's called me to do is make therapy normal, yep, and get men to understand that.

Speaker 1: 34:59

Both of my therapists over the past three years have just they reiterated this Ken, what happened to you as a child is not your fault, right, your trauma is not your fault. But now that you know, it's your responsibility to walk out this healing journey. And, dude, jake, one of my affirmations is I am whole. I choose to use past pain to help others find healing. So it's like what I went through and what you and your wife have went through, you've done the same thing. You've said man, this pain that I've went through, I'm going to use this pain so other people don't have to go through it the way that I did or I can help them out of it quicker.

Speaker 2: 35:41

That's it. I mean. Being able to engage with your story is the entire. That is the journey, because if and a hard part is is real modern therapy ends up wanting to make bad guys and good guys, and that's not real work. Real work is about the fact that my mom wasn't bad, my dad was good, or my dad was bad, my mom's good. You know that this doesn't work. We're dealing with broken people, so I don't need to put things into dualistic mindsets in order to make myself feel better. I need to recognize that some broken people raised me and I got real good stuff and really terrible stuff and I'm not going to be a victim of that and I'm, but I although for many people they may have been victimized, victim still gives them approval as an identity. Victimized puts it and says I experienced this and now I can wrestle with it and those two different things, especially as a man to go. I actually walked through something super hard. Here's what it was and I don't know how it affected me. Today I know that I struggle in some ways and we call it.

Speaker 2: 36:36

We call it following the thread in the work that we do. So what we do is we'll get a man to a place where he shares something in his story that's significant, and then we try to help them attach what emotion is. Is it that their primary, primarily feeling? Because men, stereotypically, don't have a good language for their emotions, they don't have a high vocabulary for it, and so we're just helping them get a vocabulary. I don't think there's not like a right vocabulary, just a vocabulary. I don't care. And then the goal is to go. Now that we've identified that we go, when do you know, in your story was the first time you felt that way, that you just described what? When was the first time you felt that? And let's follow the thread all the way back and it's like oh, it's a totally different situation, had nothing to do with what they're experiencing today, but is deeply.

Speaker 1: 37:26

You kidding me Deeply.

Speaker 2: 37:27

It's in me your entire team is getting um hugs from me.

Speaker 1: 38:01

I'm coming to atlanta getting to be like bro. Um, but we were talking about the thread. You were talking about going back to that first moment. You remember that emotion, jake.

Speaker 2: 38:12

Right. And so once a man finds or can name that emotion, the goal of the work that we do is to get them to recognize, if they follow the thread back, that is not the first time they felt that way. Especially in marriage or in business or in relationships, men want to go oh I'm having this big emotion and it's about this circumstance Never, almost never. Is that accurate? If there's a big emotion attached to a circumstance that's right now, it's usually that big emotion is defending an experience that happened back there that they never looked at. So following the thread is simply asking the question when was the first time in your life you felt that way? Not right now, but that emotion, whatever name you want to give to it, however you want to describe it, let's go backwards and find the first time you ever felt that way and unpack it there so we can see how it's impacting you here, and that is like the root system of the work we do.

Speaker 1: 39:11

My friend says if it's hysterical it's historical.

Speaker 2: 39:14

That's.

Speaker 1: 39:14

that is a great phrase If it's hysterical, it's historical, like if it's something you, when you when you blow up or you get triggered, it is that. Well, dude, tell me a little bit about for you walking through what you guys walked through, having to, from the moment you know, your wife's just unpacking her whole life and the men that have failed and let her down, and you took that in weeks and months of just restorative work and patience and those kinds of things for her to where you are today. Yeah, what does that mean to you?

Speaker 2: 39:53

I have, yes, this I got none of that. That's okay, I just I. As soon as I saw you free, I was like that's a frozen face. Um, for me, what I've watched is I watched our pain become purpose in other people's lives and I feel like that's the gift, right, like the gift is if I choose to walk through something and then I'm willing to vulnerably share that with others. They can not go through the missteps and the mistakes that I made. They'll have their own, but they'll be able to go further, because I was willing to be vulnerable and I think that and both me and my wife are, I mean, obviously watching that video. That's just who we are Like. That's what we're trying to offer the world through our life, through our family, through our marriage and through our platform is to be able to allow them to see us in a way that gives them permission to share exactly what's happening in their life with real courage, knowing that mercy and grace is actually what's available to them on the other side.

Speaker 1: 41:22

I love it, man, I love it. Best place for people to connect with you, jake, and find out more about what you guys have got going on.

Speaker 2: 41:29

Um, everything that we're doing right now is that this is the fightcom. So this is the fightcom. You will find our we have an entire online platform for men that covers everything from initiation to identity, to sex, to marriage, to leadership and all of those things covered in courses. It's um, like a basically a monthly fee to be to leadership and all of those things covered in courses. It's like a basically a monthly fee to be able to get access to like like 90 some videos. Plus, every week we do something called man talk Monday. So man talk Monday is live every Monday, and then that's followed up on that topic every single day called daily drive, and so that shows straight up to your phone. And then we do live events. Our next one is in November. So we're doing a live event, um, in Dallas, uh, for basically about 40 men, and it's just deep work, so we do what are the dates on that?

Speaker 1: 42:18

Um, it's right before Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2: 42:20

Um, so that weekend before Thanksgiving is when it is I think it's the 20th, let me double check, but it is, um, yeah, the 21st through the 24th throw. So our next fight weekend is in Dallas, november 21st through the 24th. Um, there's only 40 spots. We keep it small and limited because we want to do really, really deep work, and so I we've done 12 of these now, and that is. You want to hear crazy stories, that's where they come from, and so, yeah, and then we have a book that releases August 6th with Baker Publishing, called the Journey to Biblical Masculinity 12 Paths Every man Must Take, and so we have that coming out as well. So, just, we're trying to be a resource to, uh, to men, to be able to walk in the fullness of what they were created for.

Speaker 1: 43:10

Well, I can't, I can't wait to help you get this word out in this message. And it's insane how God's connected us in a week. It's just been so long, it's been a week. It's been nuts. Um, besides, besides the, uh, besides the zoom demons not trying to get us through here.

Speaker 2: 43:26

I'm like good Lord. I have not experienced that before.

Speaker 1: 43:30

It's crazy, dude. Y'all go follow Jake DJ Hamilton on Instagram. This is the fightcom. Listen, if you're a guy faith-based, not faith-based you've got to check out what my guy's doing. Right here it is again. If you missed the very beginning of the podcast we talked about, literally, I saw a video between him and his wife and it moved me. I posted it, we got connected and here we are doing a podcast together, dude, thank you so much for joining us, my friend.

Speaker 2: 44:01

Hey, I appreciate the time. Thank you so much, Ken.

Speaker 1: 44:03

Hey guys, thanks for joining us on another episode of as the Leader Grows. Listen, we've hit the top 1% of all podcasts in the country. We've done that because of you. Our audience, our viewers, Listen, grab this, share this with some men that you know that could use this and it would add value in their life. We appreciate you, love you. We'll see you next week on as the Leader Grows.