Dead Drifters Society: A fly fishing podcast
From Angling Enthusiast to Business Owner: Victor Rossiter's Adventure in Fly Fishing and Guiding
Buckle up fishing enthusiasts, we have a treat for you! This episode takes us on a whirlwind adventure with Victor Rossiter, founder of the newly minted guiding business, Hookem Outfitters, based out of Washington State. Victor's love for fishing is contagious and his transition from an avid angler to a passionate business owner is a story that is sure to hook you in.
With Victor, we navigate the artful world of fly fishing, delving into his diverse experiences from catching a multitude of species to an extraordinary day of hauling in 30-40 bull trout - a record that still stands. Victor also gives us the inside scoop on the intricacies of fly fishing, such as color selection for different rivers and his personal favorite techniques including swinging flies and nymphing. Plus, you won't want to miss his invaluable advice for newbies starting out with pink salmon.
Beyond the fishing, Victor's interactions with his older clientele offers a deep dive into life's wisdom. He shares how these interactions have shaped his views on living in the moment and the importance of a well-rounded life that includes hobbies and passion projects. From business challenges to fishing techniques, and life philosophies, our chat with Victor is packed with insights and inspiration, whether you're an avid angler yourself or simply enjoy a good story. Join us and get ready to be reeled into the enchanting world of fly fishing!
•Instagram
https://instagram.com/hookem.outfitters?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
•Hookem Outfitters
https://hookemoutfitters.pro/?fbclid=PAAaZ0BXneGeoQ_MaliwX4xbvApbQ0qSW7_7reVMVvKW5-621K9qy6N5MTX0o_aem_AbwmPsbV8cLE6sD8HlQ0o16JyujUNfUFifxJJ3MNX__1Zv9iLgB0zGsQjMBB7WDyqHA
Buckle up fishing enthusiasts, we have a treat for you! This episode takes us on a whirlwind adventure with Victor Rossiter, founder of the newly minted guiding business, Hookem Outfitters, based out of Washington State. Victor's love for fishing is contagious and his transition from an avid angler to a passionate business owner is a story that is sure to hook you in.
With Victor, we navigate the artful world of fly fishing, delving into his diverse experiences from catching a multitude of species to an extraordinary day of hauling in 30-40 bull trout - a record that still stands. Victor also gives us the inside scoop on the intricacies of fly fishing, such as color selection for different rivers and his personal favorite techniques including swinging flies and nymphing. Plus, you won't want to miss his invaluable advice for newbies starting out with pink salmon.
Beyond the fishing, Victor's interactions with his older clientele offers a deep dive into life's wisdom. He shares how these interactions have shaped his views on living in the moment and the importance of a well-rounded life that includes hobbies and passion projects. From business challenges to fishing techniques, and life philosophies, our chat with Victor is packed with insights and inspiration, whether you're an avid angler yourself or simply enjoy a good story. Join us and get ready to be reeled into the enchanting world of fly fishing!
•Instagram
https://instagram.com/hookem.outfitters?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
•Hookem Outfitters
https://hookemoutfitters.pro/?fbclid=PAAaZ0BXneGeoQ_MaliwX4xbvApbQ0qSW7_7reVMVvKW5-621K9qy6N5MTX0o_aem_AbwmPsbV8cLE6sD8HlQ0o16JyujUNfUFifxJJ3MNX__1Zv9iLgB0zGsQjMBB7WDyqHA
And basically, you know, I just wrap it up, put some dumbbell eyes, some medium size dumbbell eyes. Doesn't really matter what color it is. I do pink just because you know I'm throwing pink, so I try to match it all. Then I kind of wrap it all the way down and put a little bit of marabou in it and then I wrap it up with some dubbing and, you know, twist it off and call it good and that's it's. It moves and pulsates and kind of jigs in the way. However, you're presenting it to the fish at that moment. So most of the time we're stripping for single hand when we're, you know, fishing for pinks and even coho. I use the same fly sometimes for coho. I've got coho on so many different colors, so colors sometimes don't mean crap and then, like, certain colors won't work on certain rivers and for the same style of fish, you know so.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Dead Drifter Society, A fly fishing podcast to share information, our adventures and our opinions. We want to see where everyone is at in life and on the water. We'll ask questions and get answers so we can learn everything there is to learn about fly fishing. And now here's your host.
Speaker 3:Andrew Barone. Welcome back, Dead Drifter. I have no fear. I did take a week off just because my family was flying out to come see me and we were doing a bit of a road trip. That being said, this week we have Victor Roslister from Washington State. Cookham Outfitters is his guiding business that he just started and his passion for what he does is just tremendous. So we get into talking about swinging for different species, what it takes to be a guide and how much he loves doing what he does. So I hope you really enjoy this episode and I will see you down at the end.
Speaker 1:I know you left me hanging Friday.
Speaker 3:Dude, I'm sorry about that, I'm just joking. Honestly, I just failed that day. I was fishing for myself and trying to catch a bull and me and my buddy were just going so hard and then we were so tired and literally I passed out at the river on rocks. Oh, I've done that so many times.
Speaker 3:And then I woke up and I was like, oh yeah, I was like, well, we might as well like keep fishing our way back. And then I like looked at my phone and I was like, oh, like, I just didn't look at my phone all day. And then I looked at my phone and I was like holy fuck. And then I like got to service and I looked at your thing and I was like, god geez, and normally I book, I put it in my calendar, so I get a reminder in the morning and like two hours before, and then another one half an hour before, just to like not forget. I just didn't put it in because I didn't think I'd forget.
Speaker 1:No, you're good, I've done that, so it's a good day. When you're not like paying attention, you're on the river, you fall asleep a little bit. You're not on your phone. I mean, that's a solid day in my books.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I've yet. Well, I've caught like little bull trout like you know, 14, 16 inch bull trout, but I've been. I came out here to guide for cutthroat and all I wanted to do is catch a good bull trout and every time I went streamer fishing I'd catch like a nice cutthroat and be like, oh cool. And then like a big bull trout would come chase it and I'd be like, are you fucking kidding me? Like the bull trout was so close, like can't you just taken my fucking streamer instead of this cutty?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's. I've seen that a lot yeah. So yeah, if you ever want to catch a big bull trout, come down here yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, and we got. We got some big ones up here as well, and it's just, I guess we don't have the sea runs. That's pretty cool. Yeah, they get good, they get good size? Yeah, like what are we talking? Like 30 plus inches, or?
Speaker 1:Yeah, every once in a while you'll get one of us 30 plus inches, that's. I mean, if you think about it, that fish is probably a purge of 10 years plus you know. Yeah, I think they grow. I don't know, I forgot there's a scale on it, but that's a pretty old fish. Anything over 30 inches, I mean. I can get regularly like 20 plus inches, which is pretty sweet. They kind of they put up a fight at first and then they kind of Dog it. I mean I don't know, they're just, they're fun, they're really fun. It's, I think, the most. I took a buddy out one time before I started guiding and we hit a record one day. It was maybe like 30, 40 bull trout in one day. It was just the killer day. You know, on bull trout, all different sizes, you know some were like a little darker than others. I mean they're beautiful to look at too. You know all those little spots and everything.
Speaker 3:It's interesting that they're called bull trout when they're a char, but same with like brook trout, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know it doesn't make much sense, but I mean, whatever, I didn't make the names of the fish.
Speaker 3:It's interesting, but no man, it's. Yeah, bull trout are funny because, like every time I've spotted them in the river so far, like I didn't get I was out here guiding so I just didn't get a lot of time. But I'd find them in this one system and, like you know, once you spot one you usually start spawning a bunch around it and then realize that it's loaded. They just don't want nothing, they're just bunkered down though. So, yeah, clav, next season I'll come back out for a little bit longer to guide out here and I'll be bringing some bigger ammunition and a little bit more knowledge. So it'll happen. Yeah, I mean that's the way she goes.
Speaker 1:Did you learn things? I learned something new every. I mean, I feel like I learned something new every time I go out on the river.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did. I only got like four opportunities to actually fish for them, Two of them on one system and then two of them on a off of my raft, just like streamer fishing. So yeah, got the last time I went out streamer fishing, which was the day after, I caught like five nice cutties and four out of the five got like a shark at the bottom. They've got like a shark attack that's what we call it when a bull trout like comes in and up and like tries to take your cutty down.
Speaker 3:Oh that's funny. Yeah, so it was, like you know, so close to a bull. And then, of course, fucking cutty takes it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's funny.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, and it's the funnier thing is like even the person I'm staying at his house he fishes bull trout hard, or used to, he guided bull trout and all that, so he was laughing. He's like man, you're trying so hard and not catching them and then, like other people are trying to like not even catch them and they get them. I'm like I know it's just like that rule of thumb, like not real of thumb, but you know that's a lot of time when you're fishing.
Speaker 1:You're out there fishing and you're like, yeah, I'm not going to get something. You usually get something when you're not expecting it, not when you're trying. You know really hard. Yeah, it's like fishing for steelhead dude.
Speaker 3:You give up on steelhead and then all of a sudden you're like good, good, good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then your rush is good and you end up landing it. You're good for. I'm usually good for a year if I don't land another one, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so I guess, yeah, we have started now. I just decided that. But welcome Victor to the podcast man. Yeah, dude, Thanks.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me on. It's the first time I've ever really talked to anyone on a podcast.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, I'm sure we'll get into some fun conversations. One thing I definitely wanted to ask you is is it your own guide service that you started? Are you working for someone?
Speaker 1:No, it's my own little thing. Basically, I kind of started fly fishing with one of my buddies that, I mean, is a guide now, and I haven't really looked back since. I picked up a fly rod and went out I was grunt, it was one of the pinks here that we had here. That was just, you know, pink. When we get pinks in and pink is a, you know, a, humphie salmon, yeah, and when we get pinks in the river system, they'll come in hard. You're talking like this year we're getting like four plus million in our area. So you know it's just a jam packed time. And when you're learning how to fly fish and you know, you know fly fishing is not the easiest thing out there to do, and when you I mean you might take a month to land, I mean even hook a fish. But when you're fishing pinks, I think it was like my first or second time going out and we hooked into like 50 plus pinks between maybe four or five guys. You know it was an awesome day and I just I just got me hooked, you know, yeah, and I Kept driving, fishing, fishing all the time, just, and I started trying to look for a different fish.
Speaker 1:You know, I was on the coho next, because that's kind of how it runs. It goes pinks, coho, chum, you know, and yeah, you know, get in there a little bit. And Then I started looking at, like you know what's a hard fish to catch on a flyer on, and it was steelhead. You know. Steelheads, like number one fish people Go after for on a flyer on. Yeah, at least around here, number one, one of the number one fish to get on a flyer out.
Speaker 1:And yeah, finally, I went over to the peninsula, which is amazing place. You ever get a chance to Go over there. It's gorgeous, not just for the fishing, but like, just like the scenery and everything and the color of, like the like. There's a river over there called the ho river. Okay, and it's this I mean, obviously up in Canada, there it's some beautiful rivers always up there too, but you ever come down to Washington. It's definitely a place to check out. This forks area, yeah, which is you ever seen twilight? That's where they, they filmed it. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of funny. They still have stuff in the in, the In, like, some of the stores are still twilight stuff up and that you know, that's from years ago, twilight, you know.
Speaker 1:I think I was like Elementary school and that movie came out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no doubt, but anyways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I finally had a steelhead, you know, and I was so stoked and I kept, you know, kept fishing and fishing, for, you know, a couple years after that and finally my, my buddies just kept hitting me up, like all my buddies would hit me up hey man, what are you doing? How are you using what are you doing now, you know, just ask me a bunch of questions. And and then one of my buddies was like dude, you should just start, like, you know, taking people out. And yeah, I didn't like kind of helping them out, because you always help us out, and I'm like, you know, let's, let's just give it a go at it. You know, I tried, I tried it out for, like I don't know, a couple times I tried telling people, yeah, you want to go out? And I wasn't charging anyone, you know, I just wanted like I guess I wasn't like official, but I was like, hey, you want to come out, I'll show you how to fish, you know, and I just started that way. You know, like, hey, you want to take a boat ride with me, kind of like. You know, I ran some random sometimes it would be random people I'm met on the river like, hey, I got a boat. You want to come fishing with me this weekend, or something like yeah, I was like my DFI fish. He's like no, I'm like walking, teach you. You know. He's like how much do you charge for that? I'm like no, I want charges. Just meet me at this spot and Just float down the river with me and then you're right back up to my truck. Yeah and yeah, that's kind of how it went and it's been good this year. I mean, this is like my first Official year, I guess, for guiding Yep and it's been great so far. And I Don't know I I've been like I said earlier. I don't know what we're talking.
Speaker 1:I kind of I do construction, normally concrete work, which is you know back breaking and paying ass. You got to deal with you know a bunch of you know pricks and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, I Kind of pull my boss. Recently, like a minute, we started slowing down and you know I'm like, hey, well, can I take like a month off or something like they're too much, you know whatever. He's like, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1:And you know pinks are coming in right now. So it's like perfect timing. And I just been grinding and then guide and every other. You know, I've been maybe three or maybe probably four days a week, which is Good to me because you know I'm, it's good for me and then I can have like like two days with my girlfriend and maybe a day by myself, efficient, or maybe a buddy or something. Yeah, so maybe I just actually got my girl finally, got her out on a flyer odd and she got her first. Sam and I was so stoked man, she was so pumped and she's so excited that she yeah, it was just oh, I was like great man, like oh, I was so happy for her.
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, no, and that's a. That's a cool way to like I think. You know, I kind of started in the same sense of like showing people, like learning from people, but then like showing some people that never had fly fish before and Getting a feel for that that way, and that's a cool progression on how it started. And you know, then going into like your first season and doing like four days a week kind of thing, I think that's pretty, that's solid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it hasn't. I haven't really want, I don't want to. I don't want to go back to work. Let's just say yeah.
Speaker 3:I am the same boat. I'm like thinking about construction. I'm like, oh man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all, it's like you. Like my days are like you know you get up at four because I gotta drive an hour to work, or at least because I live in like I live like an hour or so. Seattle and Bellevue is like their big town. You know Washington, seattle, everyone knows that is that's where all the work is. So I live like an hour away from there. So I got to get up at least an hour to get to work. If I wake up any long, any Later than that, I'll hit traffic and I'll be, I'll be late.
Speaker 3:Basically. Okay, yeah, I get you. You have to get there so early and just wait then yeah, exactly, so I get there.
Speaker 1:You know I leave my house at five and I get there maybe at six. Yeah, and I'll wait. Jobs are to seven, you know. But if I wait, if I leave at five thirty and say you know I won't get there till eight, Sometimes with the trial bad the traffic is, and then you know, I don't know how long I'm working. Sometimes, you know, it's just all over the place and if I don't get off before two thirty, oh man, I'm stuck in traffic for two or three hours going home.
Speaker 3:It's awful like that is sick. I mean, I complain on the island, but that's. I can imagine being in three hours of traffic every day. That just like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, would you want to go back? Would you want to go back to work, to that?
Speaker 3:No, no, I don't want you to go back to work. That's how real this shit is. It's crazy sometimes you know, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then you know, get home after that day and then you're like, oh, I gotta do this again tomorrow, you know. And then like at the at the end of the day, like if we need to go work and make money, then yeah, it's like, it's a good paying job, it is what it is Like. There should be no complaints. But when you could be out on the river helping someone catch fish, maybe for their first time, like your girlfriend or you know someone that's like fish but just never had success or low success, like getting a guide is just like. You know. Now that I am a guy, whenever I go to a new piece of water and I have the funds, it's like, yeah, I'm getting a guide, like 100%, that fast tracks you. We can enjoy the day, learn some things, have a good time and then do DIY after, because then at least you would have a ballpark of like what you're up against.
Speaker 3:But to just show up to a river you've never been and like you know what alone fly selection, but like where did those fish hold? What's there like temperament, comparatively from the ones you've fished? Is that something I've noticed? You know, now that I've come out to Cranbrook, you know, which is like pretty close to Calgary, it's like four hours away from Calgary. So we're, you know I'm not in my home water anymore.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the fishing is just different. It's not like overly complicated but it's different and like dry flies from nymphing. You know it's a whole different ball game. But I started the kind of the same thing as you with pink salmon. I think that's a great fishery for someone that's like starting fly fishing to, to go on pink salmon because you have lots of opportunity and You're more than likely to get into fish, especially when they're there and as long as you can like kind of cast a fly rod. The presentation, you know, isn't overly complicated either swing it out and do some strips or leave it just swing out and Keep casting till it happens. But yeah, there's just so many things to getting to a new river and you know, if you can kind of fast-track someone and make their day and share the experience of what you enjoy so much, I think that's pretty special.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, especially like you said, like pink salmon is probably the way to, great way to start and you don't get carried away with. Maybe if you catch a lot of fish, don't be over excited, because once those things are done and spawned it out, it's gonna go back to another little grind. You know, and you're trying to figure everything out.
Speaker 3:That's like egg season on on the island. You know, when I was younger I was like this I'm the best angler out there, and then it, then it got cold and no more eggs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the. This is how it goes, you know, it's the sequel, the sea, the seasons and the cycles of everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so so far, like you've only have basically into your first season of guiding, is what?
Speaker 1:I would say this is my first official. You know I'm getting paid to do now. Yeah, I'm using awesome.
Speaker 3:And then what? Like when were some of the hurdles that you came over, like starting your own business and, and doing that, like how do you get your clients, and, and whatnot so that that, that's what I would say.
Speaker 1:That is the biggest hurdle. Yeah, it's like getting your name out there. That was that also. You know, I started at the beginning of this year, or maybe even I would say I Haven't even got into a year yet. I probably started last year around like November time, trying to get my name out there, I guess, a little bit more and more, and Like my name finally, like maybe hit someone's desktop, you know. Yeah, and like March or February, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah but it took me a while, but it a lot of it was like word of mouth, which is awesome, I love. I think that's like one of my favorite ways, mmm, because someone can just describe you a lot better, yeah, of a person or how you know. Interacting with someone is a lot better than Going on someone's profile and seeing pictures or something you know. Yeah, I think. Yeah, our sponsorships, yeah, yeah, but my mouth is like my favorite, I would say I think that was like one of my biggest.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, and then that feels good too, because then you like know someone, like enjoyed you enough to like mention you and be like, hey, this guy Victor, over here, he's, he'll set you up for success if you, if you choose him as an outfitter.
Speaker 1:Yeah and like so. Another one would be the flink fly shop man. I was going in there like my local fly shop. I was going in there like I Couldn't get away. Let's just say that you know, like I wanted to go. I kept thinking about going back there. I need to go get some more much. So I started by. So let's go back a little bit. I bottle.
Speaker 1:I used to buy a lot of flies, you know, like stuff that would look cool, not necessarily Maybe not be the right for the fly, for the fish I'm going after, but I thought, like that thing looks cool and it's, it looks like it would swim good, so I bought it. Whatever else, I'll swing it out there and I swing flies most young. You know, spearod, I've been getting back in the single hand because pink season, you know, but yeah, and coho are coming up, but You're mostly swinging flies. But yeah, I went into the fly shop like I don't know twice, three times a week, just sometimes I'm buying anything just to look around and talk to the guys. And you know, be asked and you know some of the guys, you know they were always nice to me and everything. And finally, you know, I just I started spending money there. So, yeah, obviously people take note of what you buy and how much time. She come in all the time.
Speaker 1:And I got a good relationship with the fly guys at my local fly shop and they, finally, you know, I, some of them just kept doing my name out the people that would come into the fly shop. So another word-of-mouth thing, you know, yeah, but I kind of threw my persistence on just going in there and and just asking questions and finally, you know, coming back to them sometimes with pictures of fish and like, hey, man, I got this one, I did this. Look at what I did this time, like you know just, you know Just what you would do to anyone you're talking to, just telling them how you did it, not trying to hide anything. I was. I'm not a person who likes the Like, hide the way I did something. I'd be like someone asked me how I did it, but do, this is how I did it. I don't know if it'll work for you, but somehow it worked for me this time, you know yeah, it worked, this one time at least, or this you know handful of times.
Speaker 3:No, I'm like that. Yeah, word-of-mouth is such a cool way to do it. I mean, you know, obviously the fly guys are the people that worked at the fly shop, or the owner or whoever you know. They, they saw you trying or wanting and like doing good and they liked you. So it's like, you know, once again, the word-of-mouth is a really cool way of doing it, because Now you got people that like have some form of knowledge of like who you are, versus just like Getting a call off of a sponsored page or Ad or whatever you know. It's actually like, hey, man, like I Heard that you're a fun, you know you'll take me to some fish and we'll have a good time, like that's, yeah, it's wholesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been a I mean, it's definitely First year of still, you know, struggling. There's been a few times we've been out I'm not gonna lie and we haven't really gotten any fish and I feel awful about that day. You know it just wasn't the right day or something.
Speaker 3:You know something was off and Well you gotta get in those humbling days like they you know any, any guide that's actually wanting their Well and I think all guides want their clients but it's not just a paycheck. It's like actually you want that experience for them. But that is fishing. Like you know, I do trout guiding and some days it's just not as great as the day before. Like you know, week from then or Two weeks ago, whatever it may be, it's a tough thing. It like, yeah, I can eat at you a little bit, but those days will make you, you know, next come, next season, come five years from now, whatever, you'll look back at those days and those are the days that you learn, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah dealing with clients on that is is also a thing. But yeah, so when we talk about guiding and, like you know, obviously catching fish is the goal for you or for your client, and all that, but what are some other aspects that you've enjoyed from the guiding?
Speaker 1:You know, meeting people, man, I love. I mean I've been fortunate enough to Actually meets. I met some really I mean awesome people. I haven't had any, you know pricks or anything. I mean most live people are usually pretty nice and you know they're respectful and I would say I mean I've met some interesting people. I've met One of my rod makers.
Speaker 1:He makes rods, pretty beautiful rods. He actually is building rods for a YouTuber now and he's doing pretty well. But I met him through fly fishing and he he's taught me a lot of things like just what, throughout the world, not with just like. He's like a encyclopedia, like anything random things, just random, like you wouldn't even, I wouldn't even know. He told me that we went camping a few weeks ago. It was like for my birthday. I invited him out for a fishing trip and I was like, yeah, I mean he's been building me rods and like you know what, come on out, you know fish with me. But he, I didn't know this. There's a group of this cat the cows were circling up in this field and I'm like, dude, what the heck are they doing? He's like they do that sometimes because they think it's gonna rain and I'm like what the heck, I would have never, never known that you know, I was like, but he's just like that, like just some random, random things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, info I love, I love so here. Old people, I love old people, I'm not gonna lie those, they are Just a book of knowledge and I've learned so much things and, well, actually a lot of my clients have been, like, you know, older than me. Obviously I'm pretty young, but I mean it's just meeting people and the experiences that they give me, just not without, even if we don't catch a fish that day and we're having. You know, maybe we're having a, they're having a beer, or maybe you know we're cheers and or something for hanging out.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we'll, you know, I'll stop midway down the river and I'll start cooking up some food for him or something. You know, I got this little grill top thing, whatever you call it, with propane. You know, yeah, whatever I got, you know, most of the time I'll my my grandpa and brother. They fish out in the sound all the time, so they'll bring me smoked salmon. So I'll bring the my client smoke salmon. Like, oh, he cuts it's like. No, I didn't, but you know, it's like I'm just trying to treat them.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's good. It's good, you know, and like I don't know, I would say, meeting people was meeting like these older people or is Definitely made my perspective on living Different? You know, I'm looking at things a lot differently.
Speaker 3:Oh no, it's good man and like you are young and like you only got, you know up to go. I mean the cool thing about it, like what you just said, is like, yeah, those old people, they, they are a wealth of knowledge and they have plenty to offer and most of the times they're just happy to be out. I mean, I don't know how old, but I've had some people that are like Older and you know it could be their last fishing trip you never know, right, yeah, and so for them, it's like getting out there and and doing the thing that they've been doing for so long, that they love so much, is just such a blessing. And or someone that you know work their whole life, only to, you know, not be able to Really do much with their retirement because their body is kind of like you know they were construction their whole life, like you're going to be hurt and the time you're old.
Speaker 1:No, you're funny. Yeah, that's funny. You say that because I know someone actually recently that worked his whole life in construction and he retired and you got, you know big, some big money towards them and he went and bought like a brand new truck, brand new camper. He had like a plan to go everywhere. Then he turned around, had a heart attack and died like two weeks later. Yeah, man.
Speaker 3:That's crazy, it's and it's, it's sad because like yeah, I don't know, that's a whole different subject but like working your whole life to live your life later is like not the route I want to take on a live life and then you know, if anything ever happens I'll at least have my boots on, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Well, I was, I got. You know I grew up, you know the way you got to work hard and play later. But you know it's like I Don't know. I just I just want to live now and see where it goes. I mean, I might not be the richest person in the world and you know I don't have all the things I want in my life, but I'm living for now and I'm happy.
Speaker 3:So it's like, yeah, whatever one thing yeah, I mean we can get philosophical with it, but no, I Go down some other rabbit holes here. No, it's, it's important to have like a good hobby that, like you know, makes you want to live life. Because I know like at one point I didn't really have that in my life. It was just partying and you know I didn't really care much. And then I started fishing and I was like, oh no, I want to get up early tomorrow. Like you Know, it's Friday night. I'm like no, I want to get up early tomorrow and go fish. It just gives you purpose. So like, yeah, fine, it's nice that we found it at the age we found it, because you know we can both grow into our old age and, yeah, have like 40, 50 years, hopefully more under our belts of fishing, we're not going to look back and regret that. But I'm having a ton of money buying a brand new truck, trailer, all this, and then, you know, croaking, that's yeah. That's not the route I want to go either.
Speaker 1:No, that's awful, it's just I don't know what to say about that. I couldn't believe that. But yeah, I just it keeps you humble, definitely like just the way, just live the way you want. Yeah, and you know I it's funny because my buddies I Was kind of like you or I was this out part. Like you know, you're in your 20s, you're out and live a little bit. I was doing it too much and I was getting into trouble and stuff. And I Know I started fly. You know I came across fly fishing and then it settled me down a little bit and a little bit, you know, and then I kind of still party here and there. And then I found my girlfriend and it's like totally every all I care about now is fly fishing and my girl and my dog. So it's like, yeah, crazy how things can just change it. And matter of matter of like months.
Speaker 3:Well and like, yeah, partying once in a while, sure it's fun, definitely.
Speaker 1:I go out. Every once in a while We'll go to the bar or something, have a few drinks, shoot some pool, you know, and yeah, call tonight, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then it's I don't know everything in moderation, right, besides from fly fishing. Now we go hard on, but All the other things, moderation. But I mean, yeah, like you're saying, you know, at one point in time it's just like party, party, party. And then all of a sudden you're like Start fly fishing or you find your hobby, mound biking, whatever it be, and like you literally are like wanting to do that. So it's like you make sacrifices on the partying, which is a great sacrifice to make, and and you know, and then when you do party, it's actually like way more fun, because it's not like every Friday that you're going out to the bar getting drunk or whatever. Yeah, you know, yeah, but no purpose, purpose in life.
Speaker 3:So when you and something else he said that I really liked was like you know, a Good meal on the river goes so far people, oh yeah, talk to people, like I've only been doing guiding for I guess a full season back home and then Half a season, I guess a little over half, yeah, anyways, let's say, half a season out here. And so I've talked to a lot of people and you know, you whip out a good meal, whether it's a good day or fishing or not, like that that hurts people up and People really appreciate like the little detail in the care. Like you know bringing fresh salmon or you know I'm just having. I don't know we could talk about that all day. But like people will travel to go on guided trips. You know, if the fishing wasn't good that day, that's the day they booked. So it's not really something they can just change when they're traveling or when they're, you know want to do it? Yeah, do it.
Speaker 3:But the experience out there has more to do than just fishing. Obviously, that's a huge part. That's why we go out to do what we're doing. But you know, if you're like here's your granola bar for the day, most people yeah, you know or like here's your subway sandwich, enjoy that, you know. It's the little things I mean and, simply Simply put, it's the little things you know.
Speaker 1:My girlfriends even into it. Now she's making them sandwiches, dude.
Speaker 3:Yeah, see, it's awesome. And then that you know it's funny. You say that because I think, like a lot of guiding outfits, it's like, you know, let's say it's the man that's the guide. Female can be a guy I'm not saying can't but you know, let's say the guide, or the guys the guide. A lot of the times the life ends up being like All the background stuff you know well doing. Oh yeah, so like shut up to the ladies or shut out to whoever's helping you through it, but like it's a team effort to run a guided business. It's not just wake up and you know clients are at your doorstep ready to go. It's like someone I have to book on, someone I have to, like you know, set up everything. You're doing things, they're doing things, everyone's getting ready for this day to make it like a good day. So it's a lot of work goes into it. So, yeah, good on you, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, back to that like good, grateful for all the women out there that are Helping their man, or vice versa, where the man's open their woman was something that they love to do. It's just I love to see stuff like that man. I just, without even asking her, sometimes she's doing it. I'm like man, baby, yeah, I love you for doing this, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah she sounds like a keeper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's, she's a. She's awesome man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, no, it's, it's important to have a good team. I mean, whether it's you know your spouse or Whoever you're picking, who you surround yourself with is super important. But yeah, I mean it's. It's super cool to hear that you like started your own outfit. I mean that's like a leap. I mean I went the other route. I started working for someone, but they make me my lunch, so that's my. I Like that aspect quite a bit, yeah, and. But yeah, no, I've been blessed and sounds like you've been blessed with. You know great opportunities and keep plugging away. So what is your like season? What are the fish, the fisheries that you, you go after and all that?
Speaker 1:So mostly I fish for salmon and steelhead. I do do bull trout though because, like I said, one of the rivers that we do I fish heavily, get really big bull trout in there and they're really awesome to. If you do get into a nice one, it's really awesome to see that, see him that get that big, you know. So mostly bull trout and salmon and steelhead. Salmon and steelhead I don't know people know this but steelhead kind of run all year round. It is very rare to get them in certain months but Mostly do winner, winner and summer runs, which is, you know, kind of June, july, august for a summer run and I'll win a run, kind of areas on the river, but mostly from like December to March. In that time to see steelhead on the some of the rivers, um, but yeah, but like I said, you could run into a steelhead whenever you never know.
Speaker 1:Like we were on a river two days going around into two back to back on a just luck of the draw and we're fishing for steelhead. We weren't, we were fishing for pinks and, uh, you know it's two steelhead where it. They should have been where they should, but it was really low, which I was thinking like, oh, they probably already went up the creek and they're gone, but now they were sitting right there just hanging out, you know, for the probably the water to rise just a little bit so they can make it up the little stream. Yeah, and uh, uh, yeah, it's for steelhead. That's about the times we do it for salmon. Uh, pinks, every two years. They come in from August all the way to maybe October. Uh, they're really heavy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's kind of crazy, crazy to see. Sometimes I'll start out in the sound and I'll guide a little bit out there, like not like out in the sound, but like each access areas, you know, and we'll just Kind of throw it out there like a nice and all that. No, mostly like uh, maybe mouths, so almost the mouth of a river.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I don't know what would you call an estuary like uh yeah, I guess that's what I would consider it.
Speaker 3:Um, okay, yeah. So like there's ocean right there, it's tidal water, like it's still rising and lowering. Um, you know, you see like the bullets coming up when it's it's high water, you'll see like yeah, yeah, that's the shit I like to do. Uh, for pinks is like I'm like fresh, you know, I'm yeah, I'm not huge on, you know, and this is just personal. So If you do this, it's yeah, it is what it is, but I like salmon when they're like first coming in.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I like them whenever, but yeah, I mean it's just yeah, once they're in the river.
Speaker 3:I always switch to trout, that's the main thing, because I'm like, oh, egg season's now starting and it's you know, all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you're a trout guy, then yeah, you know. You know the trout are gonna definitely be there when the salmon are sitting there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then of course the big trout come Round when, when the eggs are out and stuff like that. So I mean, you know it's, I fished a lot of Salmon and rivers and then I started doing estuaries and you know, I just thought it was cool to do it.
Speaker 1:But it's not. It's pretty, you know, but it's, it's cool. You know, there's usually a lot of fish.
Speaker 3:So yeah, did it. One it's, you know, and salmon are really like you were saying earlier, you know they're, they're bountiful when they come in on almost all systems, you know, and they fight great, like it's such a great fishery overall, I mean, you know, and then just so cool that you can literally like travel Up and down, like from Alaska all the way down, like further down than you're at, and and get into these fish.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, all the way to California now if you wanted to.
Speaker 3:Yeah and, like I know people that have, like, started from Alaska and worked down and just kept following the fish as they're coming down to and yeah, that's crazy, though, that you get the pinks, like for such a long season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is like they start August and go all the way almost. I mean, we're at what? Mid-september, right now. Yeah, they'll still be coming in at such a big year. They'll start, probably still be coming in until Probably end of September, october. You know it's such a, you know so many, so so many of them. But the coho are starting to show up. I went out today we just found myself and I seen a few roll. I'm like, oh, this is, this is good, this is good to see, you know they're. Then I seen a few nice ones and they're like oh, this is I guide for coho too. So good coho seasons. You know, the end of September to it's kind of crazy. Coho's a weird, weird one, because I mean most rivers only be, you know, a couple months or a month or so. You know they'll maybe go to like October, november, like maybe November, but one of the rivers that I guide on I've caught chrome coho all the way to the start of February.
Speaker 1:Yeah so like it's almost a five month little span there, Dude yeah you're crazy.
Speaker 1:You're in a good spot, that's for sure, for coho at least. You know, yeah. But uh, chinook, you know we can't. I have I have ran into a few really nice Chinook but you can't really uh, guarantee a Chinook. They don't really want to buy it on a fly. It's really it's kind of like a steelhead thing where it's. They don't. I don't know, are these down here? I know people get them, like in the peninsula that can get them pretty easily or not easily, but you know, uh, at least to have a better chance. Or up in Canada they have a really good chance of getting Chinook on a fly. But down here it's uh Kind of a rare one to see someone fishing for Chinook on a fly and a lot of the rivers usually are closed. Anyways, like right now one of the systems that I fish is closed for Chinook Because they're trying to have the wild population come back, which is awesome. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that, you know, yeah. But oh, yeah, you know you just never know.
Speaker 1:Um, and then steelhead, like I said just, uh, you never know with that one either. So that's mostly the fish I guide for my two and chum I don't knock a chum chum or knock a chum Amen, yeah, those guys will. They're. They're hand-to-hand with like a. They're like a mix between a coho and a Chinook fighting. I have, I have bought a chum for an hour before before I landed that thing. Yeah, I mean it, put me in my backing right away. I got it back and put me back in my backing. I mean I, we were playing tug-a-war back and forth. I mean it. They're. They're very pound for pound fish. I would say they're Very pound for pound fish. I would say they're, they're pretty, they're fysiol. That buggers dude.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, chum, I don't underestimate Chum. I think Chum are great. I've heard it too where people are like I don't like fishing for Chum and it's like man, they bitey, they fight good, they fight great. I don't think I've ever fished one for an hour, but I definitely have had one. On that I'm just like dude, this thing is just a bullet, like like he said, you get it in and it's just spazzing out and they go hard, they go hard. I think, like my thought has always kind of been like, imagine if pink salmon got the size of like Chinook, pound for pound.
Speaker 1:I think pink salmon fight really hard, dude, if you're like, if you're like on a five weight. So I fish them most of the time, like on a five or six weight, like single-handed rod or like a trout spay, like four or five weight trout spay, and they're amazing, like to fight on that rod, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we usually will use like a seven or an eight in the estuaries because they're like so fresh and I love when you're standing in a run and the water's up to your like knees or maybe even a little higher because the water's rising, but you want to stay on that one spot and you hook one and it's doing circles around you and you're just like, yeah, going towards your backing and it's just spazzing out and you finally get that fish in and you like look at it and you're like man, you're like a four pound fish, you know, or maybe a five pound fish, and you're like dude, you just kicked my ass.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah no, they're good.
Speaker 1:They're like a really big kind of like a like I don't know. I consider them like a really big trout because there's just so many of them. Yeah, I mean you just there's not I haven't. Well, there is days I go without a bite because they're I don't know. They just the water's usually really dirty and you know that's with all fishing If the water's dirty you're not going to get anything. But I mean, yeah, it's most of the time you go out there and you have a blast fishing for pinks. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I feel like, well, on dirty waters, I mean, you can get fish in dirty water, for sure, but it is definitely like new challenge and that's like not everyone, I mean, if you're not on your game. It's definitely like, yeah, you're going to have a bit of a challenging day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's another thing that I've learned throughout the years of fly fishing is fishing dirty water is challenging and I like that challenge and trying to figure out I'm switching out flies, or switching out sink tips, or doing some weird stuff where you wouldn't see normally I'm, you know, high, sticking it, or I'm mending it or add in line or just doing some weird stuff to like figure out if trying to present it a different way to the fish, I guess and I've had fish in dirty water, but you know, yeah, it's definitely challenging.
Speaker 3:Dirty water. I would say like use like a muddler or like something with a deer head or a hare head that like pushes water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I use arctic fox a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, anything that like pushes water will help attract or at least like notify a fish that it's close by. At least that's kind of my understanding of things. I mean, when we're fishing steel head up on the island, you know like you want to be pushing some water because our water is usually high and it obviously looks like a nice tasty treat, but it also is hitting their lateral line so they can locate it while it swings through or whatnot. But yeah, pink salmon, I got an appreciation. I got appreciation for a lot of species. You know, trout is probably one of my favorite things, just like I don't know, not even like you know. They're not the most technical fish but they are at the same time in a sense not egg season. That's different. But you know trout on a fly or on a dry fly. You know, or have you done gurglers for coho or pinks?
Speaker 1:What is a gurgler?
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, well, a gurgler is an awesome fly, it's a top water fly and when they're coming off of the beach or if the coho are in like big, like kind of froggy water, especially if it's like dirty water, you can like skate a gurgler. So like, basically, you'd cast out and just let it drag and yeah, they'll come and hit it off the top like top water shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're skating, I skate a fly, so pack it up. How do you spell that?
Speaker 3:Gurgler, jesus, don't make me spell on freaking. Are you kidding me? You're going to pull that fast one.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna have to write things down, hold up, that's what I'm doing right now. I'm in my notes. I'm gonna write it down, so I go to the flash drive. Hey, you guys know what a gurgler is.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Don't know.
Speaker 3:G-U-R-G-L-E-R.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I'm going to spot.
Speaker 3:I was nervous. I want to say some stupid shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Someone back here. What the heck is that guy talking about? Yeah?
Speaker 3:Gurgler fly is like really simple to tie as well. You know it's either like some puller bear off the back or you know whatever you really want to use off the back you could use Marabu, who knows and then you tie on a foam. You know, maybe, depending on the size of your gurgler, you tie on a foam strip and then do a body wrap and then maybe or a hack the hackle wrap dubbing body with like a hackle around it and then fold the foam back over. There's obviously so many ways you could tie that pattern, but basically the foam keeps it floating and you know it pops on the water. So you can like strip it and pop it, or you can just swing it and let it kind of like disrupt the surface water.
Speaker 3:Sea-wren Cutty's like that too. So you know watching a salmon come in, like you know when you're right in front of the ocean and then you're standing in like the river or like right next to the creek or whatever, and they're like super fresh before they're actually like making their way up and they're still feeding. Yeah, gurgler it up.
Speaker 1:All right, well, I have to get. I thank you for the tip, because I'll have to go out, and you see, I'll go out and try it now, but it doesn't work though. I'm like hey, andrew, what the hell you put me on dude.
Speaker 3:Yep, no, well, you don't try it more than once before you can call me out no, and then coho for Gurglers. It's possible, for sure. It's maybe not every time, maybe not every like scenario, but 100% Gurglers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know, I like 20 and it does Like sorry to cut you off, but it's like anything. You know there's a time and a place. If it's a Gurgler day, you're going to get into them, if it's not, it's not. But you know, if you're swinging a fly on the surface and you watch a sim and smack it, that's a cool feeling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've had it happen with the bull trout. It was the only thing we've got skating a fly, but I mean that was awesome, so well then.
Speaker 3:I bet you, a Sea Run bull, would probably still take a Gurgler as well, considering what you just said, but also just the thought of it. Like it looks like a. I would imagine you know and I've been told this, but I'd still imagine you know. If you're in the water looking up and you saw this like thing that looks like a fish on the like surface, disrupting the water, they'd be like oh, it's an injured fish, easy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I've tried it out. Oh, you know how it goes. You know, because Koho is coming right around. I mean they're in there now, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. And so like when Koho are like holding in a pool, that's like pretty froggy is what I've known. I haven't, I don't know if I've actually myself hooked the Koho on a Gurgler, but I know it's a thing, like 100%, I know it's a thing. Yeah, Definitely, pinks up, pinks on Gurglers. I've gone sea run cuts on Gurglers.
Speaker 1:Gurgler, you love. You like saying that word. Huh, I just like saying the word Gurgler.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it just sounds funny. It sounds like it does Gurgles the water. I guess it's not even a word for it, but that's what it does. Yeah, yeah, man, I don't know. And that's the cool thing about fly fishing, right, like I just showed or told you about something and then one day you'll tell me about something and the knowledge just keeps getting shared. That's the best part. Yeah, it just goes back and forth, you know yeah yeah, and I think with the amount of pinks you have, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm gonna go try it. I'm gonna flash it out tomorrow to see if they got a Gurgler Dude I bet you they'll be like yep, I would.
Speaker 3:and if they don't, that would honestly shock me. If they didn't have a Gurgler or didn't even know what it was, I would be like that's crazy.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna tell the owner his name's Michael. I'm like Michael, what are you running here?
Speaker 3:dude, yeah, dude, I thought this was a fly shop, not just like some stuff shop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's late night, don't judge me. Yeah, yeah, this is a gear shop, come on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got my cop car spoon here and I'm trying to catch them. On the surface, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, come on, man, I got my blue fox.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got my blue fox here.
Speaker 1:I think that's a spinner name. Right Blue Fox.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, is that next to the buzzbomb? I think it's next to the buzzbomb on mile two. So oh, yeah, yeah, no man, it's. And I don't know what you use for pints, but my history fishing for pints like little handlebars, like super easy flies, but they don't have to be big. That's what I learned with pints, is they don't have to be big. But then I also found that, like coho, take small flies as well spring sand, Anything.
Speaker 1:you never know what's gonna take a pink fly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a small pink fly like I and yeah, I tie. Like my salmon box is like one. I have like one good salmon box like decent size is what I'm meaning like. The box isn't massive but it's a good size and it holds probably like a hundred hooks on one side, another hundred on the other side and it's like handlebars on one side. You know some California Nils mixed in there in like all the different hot colors purple, chartreuse, green, while green is chartreuse, so purple and blue.
Speaker 1:I'm not really big on like names. I don't know the names of stuff and I tie all my flies. I kind of just throw something together. Sometimes and most of the time there's streamers or intruders. You know style flies, but a lot of my flies are kind of custom. Yeah, um, I do throw. When it starts steelhead fishing I throw space flies. You know, like old traditional flies I'd use still throw intruders for steelhead, but mostly like space flies.
Speaker 1:I like throwing. I like throwing unweighted flies. Most of the time, yep, and for most of the fish I can throw an unweighted. But, like you know, for some fish you need to get down deep. You know pinks. I'm actually tying right now, while we're on the podcast here, I kind of just go get a size two. Well, I'm using a.
Speaker 1:This is a salmon hook. They're from Daoichi. How do you say that name, daichi? Daichi, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a style 21, 41, size two and basically, you know, I just wrap it up, put some dumbbell eyes, some medium size dumbbell eyes. Doesn't really matter what color it is. I do pink just because you know I'm throwing pink, so I try to match it all. Then I kind of wrap it all the way down and put a little bit of marabou in it and then I wrap it up with some dubbing and, you know, twist it off and call it good, yeah, and that's it's. It moves and pulsates and kind of jigs in a way. However you're, you're presenting it to the fish at that moment.
Speaker 1:So most of the time we're stripping for single hand when we're, you know, fishing for pinks and even coho. I use the same fly sometimes for coho. I've got coho on so many different colors, so colors sometimes don't mean crap. And then, like certain certain colors won't work on certain rivers. So, and for the same style of fish, you know. So I got a, like you said, I got boxes of flies. I'm always tying. I'm always at my desk tying something. I'll tie at least three to five flies a night. Yeah, just the, sometimes on board, or sometimes, like when I'm starting to like spay flies, I tie all my spay flies I get. I see sometimes my girlfriend's staring at me and she's like what are you looking at? And I'm like this thing looks sexy, this is gonna work, you know. But yeah, most of the time I'm at night I'm tying, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I I think that's cool, Cause like that's the best part about tying your own flies, or, you know, even it's just for yourself, not so much for your clients, but either, or it's, it's a craft, it's just art, it's like you know, you make a creation, you go out, you fish it, it works, or it doesn't work. Either way though, Like that's your fly and that's that's cool. I tie, obviously now I know some patterns, but I tie a lot of free kind of like. Sometimes I'll be like going to bed and I'll be like, oh man, shit, I need to get this out of my head, and I'll be like dude, 100%. It's like it has to come out before I can go to bed, or else I'm just not going to fall asleep. I'm going to think about, like shit, those two materials, that color that you know, this is going to look good.
Speaker 1:I'll get up and put it in my notes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did send you three of those, all the flies that I just mentioned the California Neal, the Gurgler and the Pink Fuzzy, or the Pink Handlebar, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll check it out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're all super easy flies to tie and can be quite affected for pinks and I've caught coho and springs on them and all that. Springs I don't springs, I would say are harder fish to catch on the fly but at the same time, like if they're in a river system and they're there, a lot of people will say and I'm sure it's happened to me where I think I'm like actually you know, getting them to eat but maybe I'm flossing them, not something that I like. Obviously I'm not putting my head under the water watching what's happening. But I think small flies with salmon is a thing because it's like what is this little thing? And then they bite on it, but coho and pinks will chase 100%. So it's like and same with that chum. I don't see that. I haven't really seen too many springs chase my flies, but I definitely have had it happen. So you know anything's possible out there on the river.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I so the back to what you were saying, like smaller flies. I mean, if you think about it back in the day when they first started tying and they were tying, I mean most of the flies were kind of like spay looking flies, salmon flies. You know, if you type in salmon flies they're not that big, no, they're kind of. You know, they got some of them. Most of them are like natural colors and nothing too flashy. There's no like flash or something in it. You know they're kind of. They're really pretty looking, you know, and nowadays are really expensive.
Speaker 1:You buy a, you know a traditional one. There you try to find a legit one. I got one actually laying here. This one's from Mike, I don't even know. This is probably from the late, like 60s or 70s. It's pretty cool. It's got some real legit stuff, but it's pretty. I mean it is really hard to tie but it's pretty basic. You know. It doesn't have too much in it going on A little bit of blue, a little bit of red, yellow, you know, but that's like very hints of it.
Speaker 3:And some of the things I like about the traditional flies is it's how it's 2D. You know it's a flat fly. I think that's cool aspect of those old flies, because they weren't really like it was a side presentation they were going for. It looked like a full thing and it had all the colors that piss them off. So I think that's a cool thing. It's like in Trudder's obviously. It's like you're still just seeing it in 2D if you're looking at it from the side, but then if it comes around then it's this like cold round thing in your face. But the flat flies and they're so easy to fish and they say they ride great like they're all great.
Speaker 1:You can't really say anything bad about a Spayfly or a Salmonfly. They're, I mean they're pretty, they swim nice, really easy to cast, I mean all around great fly and you can tie it in any kind of pattern. There's different names for certain ones you know, and you can get technical with it and like the certain, like a lot of stuff that you they tied in it. Now you can't tie in it though, like Blue Heron's, like a big one, where I mean it used to swim really nicely, which it still does, but you're not even allowed to there's. You can't have Blue Heron anymore, so it's kind of whatever.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you know this, but there's like a whole black market for fly tying materials. Yeah, I know I just they try to. No, I know, I'm just saying like it's kind of crazy that like it's to that extent where they have, like you know, like yeah, I don't know it's crazy, there would be a black market for it.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Yeah, I come across a Blue Heron feather every once in a while on the river and I just, you know, I just sneak it away in my backpack and yeah, you're coming with me yeah you're coming with me. I'm going to tie you up later, you know but you know you're not supposed to do that, but.
Speaker 3:I mean. Yeah, you find it on the river. I mean that's whatever.
Speaker 1:That's fair game.
Speaker 3:You're not supposed to go around, I'm not going, yeah, plucking it from the bird yeah, doing all that yeah. No, I yeah it is crazy, though Like I've definitely like talked to enough people and you know they're like, oh yeah, this feather. When I was younger, we used to always use it at night. It's illegal to even have it and it's like, well, that's crazy man.
Speaker 1:Like, yeah, it's like. So this is making like eagle, like America. You know, america's bird is an eagle, right? Yeah Well, we're not even allowed to have an eagle feather, unless you're native American.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't even know if I'm supposed to, or I haven't looked into it and I'm not allegedly I don't have any, or you know, as long as you say allegedly you're good to go. Yeah, that's what I've learned from watching those long movies or shows.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those things can teach you a few things. I'm telling you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just always say allegedly Well, I was there allegedly.
Speaker 1:Hypothetically, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, never admit to it. It's all good. No man, and that's pretty cool, though. I mean the fly tying is just such a fun aspect to getting out and you know it's like, it's like taking it home with you. It's not like you're just at the river doing the thing, it's like you're actually able to go home whip up like a handful of different patterns and then go back and try them and then you know two of them work. And then one day, like you're in your box, you've thrown everything and you're like shit, what about this ugly thing I tied two years ago? All of a sudden you got one and you're like dude, that's. You know what I mean. I'm tying some more of these Now. I'm tying more of these. Yeah, I think like whenever I tied one fly and just like a little tester thing, I would always take a photo just in case one day it worked and I forgot and lost it. You'd always lose that one fly afterwards, anyways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's funny. You say that I did the same thing for a couple of years. Man, I took a picture of like every fly I tied.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you got it, man. Like what if that's the one, what if that's the ticket? Well, that's the goal, that's Willy Wonka's golden ticket, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like when I first started tying, though I mean they were not pretty, they were very ugly. Yeah, they're still. I wouldn't say I'm the greatest tire nowadays, but you know they came a lot way. These flies have come a lot ways and most of the flies that I have that I don't like. I'm like, oh, here I'm out with my buddy. I'm like here, man, just take that. Okay, Just see if it works. And he gets a fish. I'm like, well, damn, Damn, Can.
Speaker 3:I have that back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, most of the fish that I got a box that, the fish that I'm really proud of. I put that fly away and I keep it stored away for my, for memories, you know. So I got a little box of flies that I don't ever touch over again, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, there's this like one season I guess it was two years ago or so where every time I tie a fly I'd take one, like I usually tie in sets of five to 10, just so that way you know. At this point I kind of know what's going to work or I have a really good idea. Let's say, in my own personal experience and I was like putting one fly away so I would always have one just in case it worked or whatever and then remember the one day I kind of like was running low, I got lazy, didn't feel like tying, and I had that box and like, yeah, that box was never, never the same. But yeah, I had like quite a few flies that were, you know, all pretty functional, functional flies. But the cool progression too is like noticing like, oh, that material doesn't actually swim that great. And then you tie it like a different way, with a different material or less of the material, and then you're like, wow, that swims way better now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, tying flies. Yeah, it's such a good time.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's like so, people that I know they are some of my good friends, they all have to do. Why do you do that, man? You don't. When I first started fishing, like, dude, you don't catch that many fish. Man, like you know, you can go out and hear a fish and get way more fish. You can actually get a fish every time you go out or something you know. I'm like well, you know, it's not just fishing for me, it's like the whole entire experience. Like I'm tying a fly at night or during the day. I'm going out there hoping I get something, looking at the river, I'm looking at all the birds flying around the trees or river. You know sounds elk, deer, bear, something I see on the river. You know all this stuff going on and they just never. I always tell them like it's just not always just about fishing. He's like, man, isn't that the point? And go out there and get a fish. I'm like yeah.
Speaker 3:Well then I've noticed with like I don't know about retention for you guys, but you know, if it's retention river, you see a lot more deer guys and it seems obviously people that fly fish want to keep some fish here and there too, and that's great. Yeah, I find like deer guys are usually like there for the meat. You know, I don't see like recreational deer guys going for salmon very often, yeah, comparatively to like you know, fly anglers going to be out there, whether it's retention or not, because they're like I want that tug, I want to. You know, I try to tide all these flies. Someone's got to eat it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So yeah, I've always made that little distinct difference between everything. I'm like yeah, that's definitely a fly that people want, or that's definitely like a style people want to do when they want to put like meat in their freezers. It's true, you know, like if I had to feed my family also fish, I probably throw a gear rod, you know, if it came down to it, yeah, and I needed to survive.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, you wouldn't. I mean, unless I'm really. I mean I'm, I'm. You know I'm not the greatest fly fisherman, but if I could think I could catch something every time on a fly rod, yeah, I'd keep a fly rod, but most of the time you know we're in a, we're swinging flies for, like certain fish that I fish for, you know, I guarantee the fish.
Speaker 3:So yeah, it's timing, especially with, like I don't know, salmon. I mean, your students salmon season seems pretty, pretty awesome to have fish coming in that long.
Speaker 3:But 30 years 30 years, certain years yeah, but it's like you know, steelhead, you're fishing it for the like, the adventure, and that's something that like is magical. You know you get out there, like you said, looking at the, the water, you see the birds, all the different wildlife, and they're just like in the elements, like rugged it through it, hiking crazy distances, just to like maybe get a touch on a fly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't remember, I can't count how many days I've been out there fishing for steelhead and not come across one. And my hands are frozen, my feet are frozen and you know, you know I'm hungry as hell because I haven't ate all day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, barely took a piss, not drinking water, because you're swinging.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm really, I'm holding my PMA. I'm like one more, one more swing on this one looks good.
Speaker 3:you know, 30 swings later you're like all right.
Speaker 1:now I have to go to the living room, yeah yeah, yeah, exactly, and pushing it to just your little limit. That you know, it's kind of. It's funny because it kind of puts you. You think that you don't, you don't know who you are. Well, steelhead fishing will tell you your limits on how far or how long you can be out there, miserable, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I've definitely gone past the point plenty of times where I'm like, man, if I was just standing in this cold weather not swinging a fly, I would be out of 500 real quick. But since I have this fly rod in my hand and I keep swinging it, I don't even like. Sometimes I'm like, oh yeah, I'm fishing, I'm doing more than this beautiful spear cast, but it's just so romantic for like meditative that you just, yeah, you zone out, you know you're watching your your D loop and fly goes out and swings and then you take your steps or however you do it kind of thing. It's, yeah, it's awesome yeah, so curious what?
Speaker 3:what are you running? Are you on a hard shell body boat Like? What's your boat? What's your raft? What's your, your floating midger?
Speaker 1:So I first started on a drift boat guided and I always, I always, wanted a raft. Well, I got a raft this year Nice, go ahead. And so I got a little. I liked so much about another one, so now I got two rafts in a hard boat.
Speaker 3:Nice. What's the what's the hard boat?
Speaker 1:It's an old, it's probably from like 2000,. It's a diamond back then. Right, they were made out of Oregon. They're kind of like a wheelie. It's like a 16 foot guide boat. I mean, it's a guide style boat. It's got I can fit. I can fit a good amount of people and I probably four, four guys comfortably, you know, yeah, right on, I just actually it's funny.
Speaker 1:I had to actually get a guy. I hired a guy for one day because I had eight guys from Colorado come over and I'm like how the hell am I going to do this? Yeah, and they all wanted to float and I'm like damn. So I pushed it to the limit. I figured out how many guys are going to fit on one boat and with a bunch of gear and ice chest and everything you know, and they showed up with like they had no gear at all. When they told them, they told me they were coming with gear and they literally showed up with nothing but beer. Like they had like 15 cases of beer. That's all they brought. I was like this is awesome. You know, I didn't care it was.
Speaker 1:I thought it was funny and I'm like, all right, well, fill up the ice chest. I only got. They filled that thing to the brim top, I mean with beer, and they were just out there having a blast and it was. You know, we're fishing for pink, so it was a. Everyone basically got a fish and two guys didn't even fish. They sat on the beach most of the time Every time we stopped and they were just hanging out drinking beer. So I mean, when you get clients like that, it's pretty, it's still, it's a pretty good day. But yeah, I just I pushed my boats to the limits with how many people I could fit and figured out at least five person. About five people in a boat was comfortable, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what's, what's the rats you're running.
Speaker 1:I bought a 12 foot or 12 and a half foot, whatever Saturn. It's a little blue one, I don't know where the Saturn's are based out of, but it's a. It's a decent raft. It doesn't have like all the little things I kind of want. And then I ended up going and buy a RMR raft for Rocky Mountain Rats and I think they're they're based out of a. I had somewhere more East of here, I forgot, but that's a pretty. I like that raft a lot. It's a 14 footer, like a lime green color, you know, similar to like an NRS or whatever you know, just a little cheaper. But yeah, I'm getting a custom frame built for it soon, so I can you know, have you know how I want it and you know my spay rods set up. You know a holder set up for those guys because those are long and you know it just takes up some weird room.
Speaker 3:It's a weird rod to hold in a drift boat, yeah, and it's 13 feet and you got a 13 foot thing hanging off of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just, it's not. It doesn't, I know it's just. I want something set up right so it looks more professional now, instead of me just throwing them on the side and pulling it. Good, I got fancy rods and everything, but I treat every rod kind of the same and you know they do the same thing. I don't like fast action. You want to talk about rods? I'm not a big fast action rod, I like slow, medium action rods. And I got a slow. I mean my style of fishing, I'm kind of a slow, I'm a slower guy, like working around, slow, I don't know, it's just. It's just like kind of an older or style rod. My but my rod builder named it the trippichet, so you know it's like a cannon yeah, yeah so yeah doing your thing and then all of a sudden, moments later it's like all flying out.
Speaker 3:You're like yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. Now I like I don't really like the fast actions that much. I mean I have a lot of stages, but I like my medium, medium actions, kind of my sweet spot, yeah yeah, I just bought.
Speaker 1:I just bought a stage actually, because it's from like the 80s. I thought it was really cool and I picked it up for a good deal and I've been trying that out and it's not bad. I kind of like it. It just like that old. I like old stuff. I think old stuff was made a lot better than the stuff now it is and I bought a really old party rail from like the 40s to kind of match it up with nice and it was a it's.
Speaker 1:I think it's a pretty sweet setup. You know, people, people that flyfish would respect it, people that don't know it's like, oh, it's just a little fly rod, you know.
Speaker 3:But no, I mean it's Bay Fisherman generally like old stuff, especially the old reels. You know it's classic, yeah, like swinging a classic fly on a classic reel on a classic rod.
Speaker 1:People eat that real quick yeah, and it's the sound man, it just doesn't go away, those hardies, just yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Is it a click and pull?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's the perfect yeah okay, sick, yeah, that's perfect yeah right, yeah, it's pretty sweet they have. I mean, it's just they're so good that they didn't. They never really changed the design of it, you know now, yeah, hardy, everyone knows hardy.
Speaker 3:Well, anyone that's Bay Fishes knows hardy for sure, 100%. Yeah, I'm not a brand-name guy.
Speaker 1:But you know I had, I just had to buy.
Speaker 3:It was too good of a deal yeah, there you go, and those, those hardy reels hold their value as well. So that's the sweet thing about those old stuff it's like a classic car, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't paint it's. It's got its value there yeah, they all sound the same and look the same, yeah they literally do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so now that you're kind of doing your guiding thing, do you have like a little bit of a vision how you're doing there? You're just going to stay yourself for a couple years, or do you want to kind of start expanding and what's? What's that look like?
Speaker 1:no, I just want to see how it goes and I want, if I was gonna expand, I really want to get my girlfriend. I just so I got her fly fishing finally. You know she got her first little salmon and everything. She excited about that. But I wanted to learn how to row. So you know, if we ever go out by, you know each other or you know go with each other and something happens, at least you can get us down the river. Or you know, say you get exhausted rowing all day some days, especially like in the wind. Yeah, we have these wind tunnels sometimes come through and I'm rolling through there, but it puts me. I get exhausted by the end of this. It's nice to like have someone else row. Yeah, if I'm out fishing with you know friends or something anyone wants someone that can row.
Speaker 1:Everyone wants to be on a boat, but not everyone can row, so it's yeah yeah and yeah, if I was gonna expand, I think I would, uh, after, like maybe just row and I'll like do the guiding, or if she wants to really get into fishing and you know, do it, then maybe have her as like a partner. You know, but she's already my partner, basically yeah but you know, like out there row another boat and I'm rolling the boat and I think that would be really a.
Speaker 3:It'd be a really cool goal or something to see you know, yeah, or even if you know Colorado guys come back down, then you could be like hey, babe, let's do this yeah, exactly, or you know any any big group like honestly it wasn't that comfortable with all those guys, but I mean I made it work.
Speaker 3:But like anything over, like three people on a boat, it's just not like ideal, yeah yeah, now in my raft I only have three seats, so I'm limited to that and I could fit more people, but I would never um plus like for a good guided trip on for trout, like you can't have more than two anglers fishing off of one raft. I mean, we're fishing while we're moving, so that's maybe the difference. Yeah, spay, spay, you're getting out and working runs.
Speaker 1:Yeah most of the time. I mean, I do fish from the boat every once in a while, but yeah, most of the time I'm just enjoying the boat ride until the spot yeah, 100%.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, well, it's getting late on my end, so I think this is probably a good point to to wrap it up. But yeah, no, I really enjoyed talking to you and I wish you the best, because I think it's really cool that you like started your guide company and you're young and ambitious, so I think it's going to go good yeah, I don't even know how long we've been on this phone for don't fully know, but I'm sure it's over an hour now that's good.
Speaker 1:I mean, sometimes I can just get talking.
Speaker 3:Now I kind of miss track back at all that's a, that's a fisherman thing is for sure. People that love fishing always talk. I just I didn't sleep very well last night. I woke up so like just completely non fishing related. But I woke up to my like arm under my body in a weird way and it was just like completely limp, like that.
Speaker 3:All the blood was out of it and it took me like 40 minutes to get like the normal hand feeling like it went through the whole pins needle and then I just laid there and I was like awake and like 5, 30 rolled around and I still wasn't sleeping and I was like, well, and I had clients there, had a client today. So I just like got up and started doing some stretching and made my coffee and had some breakfast and then I was like still like an hour before I had to leave. I was like, okay, that's awful, yeah, and guess what, I had a nice solid wind day. It was like one o'clock world around. The wind started picking up and then it was like me just trying to hold the raft straight yeah, do you hate that days?
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean he fished. He was incredible at laying down dry flies in the wind. It was honestly like therapeutic to watch and fish. There was no better client to have fishing dry flies on a windy day than this guy. So at one point he's like you know what, I've caught enough fish, you can throw me out now. And I like was like you know, I'm always down to grind, I grind hard, I don't stop. But when he said that I was like yeah yeah, we can row out, I can do that.
Speaker 3:We're already we're pretty close to where we're taking out of you too, so it wasn't even a big deal. But yeah, I was like, yeah, let's do this and I am for two more days. So you did, that's sweet. Yeah, I like. I like having people for two days or three days, it's. I mean, if they can fish for three days properly, that's perfect. But if you ever do get clients for that, they want to do three days, I would definitely suggest that they take a break, like do come for four days but fish three days. Do maybe like two days and then a rest and then last day so people get tired.
Speaker 3:I mean, you've probably seen it like near the end of the day, people are not casting the greatest no, no one does you know yeah, you and me, like when I streamer fish all day, I'm like by the end of it I'm like, yeah, I can, let's keep casting. But I could also like, I'm good.
Speaker 1:I'm yeah, I'd love to take a break.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd love to take a break exactly yeah yeah, well, right on, victor. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your story with me and all that yeah, it's been great dude yeah, right on. Well, you have yourself great night and I will chat with you later all right, talk to you later, andrew thank you for listening to dead drifter society.
Speaker 2:Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. In the meantime, keep up with the show and get to know Andrew on Instagram at dead drifter society.
Speaker 3:Until next time and there you have it. That was Victor Rosas ter, so if you'd like to go, follow him over on Instagram. It's hook him period. Outfitters. I'll have the link in the description down below for you and, as always, if there's anyone else you'd like to have on the podcast, shoot me a message over at dead drifter society on Instagram, facebook or Gmail and I will see what I can do till next time. I'll catch you later.