Dead Drifters Society: A fly fishing podcast
Beyond the Cast: Insights into Still Water Fly Fishing Techniques and Conservation with Brandyn Dixon
Get ready to harness the art of still water fly fishing, as we delve into a riveting conversation with Brandyn Dixon of BC Fly Guys. This episode is packed full of tips and tricks, all aimed at helping you take your fly fishing experiences to the next level. Our discussion covers a broad range of topics - from fly selection, tying flies, to tips for reeling in the big ones. Brandon also shares the story behind BC Fly Guys and the importance of note-taking to improve your fly fishing game.
We take a comprehensive look at the evolution and artistry of fly fishing, with a special emphasis on the skill of tying flies. With the myriad of materials available, it's easy to feel overwhelmed. Brandon shares valuable insights on simplifying the process, making use of cost-effective alternatives like craft store materials, and dispelling the myth that fish require the exact fly to bite. Our conversation also explores the importance of gear, the value of a floating and sinking line, and the versatility of a nine-foot, six-weight rod.
In our final segment, we delve into the topic of lake conservation, touching on the effects of winter kill on fish populations and the delicate balance of sharing information while preserving secret spots. Brandon also shares his expertise on fishing techniques, choosing the right lines, and the significant role of timing and fly selection. By the end of this episode, you'll have gained a wealth of knowledge that will not only enhance your fishing journey but also help you appreciate the delicate balance between man and nature that fly fishing provides.
.Bc trout guys instagram
https://instagram.com/bcflyguys?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
.Website
https://flyguys.net/
Get ready to harness the art of still water fly fishing, as we delve into a riveting conversation with Brandyn Dixon of BC Fly Guys. This episode is packed full of tips and tricks, all aimed at helping you take your fly fishing experiences to the next level. Our discussion covers a broad range of topics - from fly selection, tying flies, to tips for reeling in the big ones. Brandon also shares the story behind BC Fly Guys and the importance of note-taking to improve your fly fishing game.
We take a comprehensive look at the evolution and artistry of fly fishing, with a special emphasis on the skill of tying flies. With the myriad of materials available, it's easy to feel overwhelmed. Brandon shares valuable insights on simplifying the process, making use of cost-effective alternatives like craft store materials, and dispelling the myth that fish require the exact fly to bite. Our conversation also explores the importance of gear, the value of a floating and sinking line, and the versatility of a nine-foot, six-weight rod.
In our final segment, we delve into the topic of lake conservation, touching on the effects of winter kill on fish populations and the delicate balance of sharing information while preserving secret spots. Brandon also shares his expertise on fishing techniques, choosing the right lines, and the significant role of timing and fly selection. By the end of this episode, you'll have gained a wealth of knowledge that will not only enhance your fishing journey but also help you appreciate the delicate balance between man and nature that fly fishing provides.
.Bc trout guys instagram
https://instagram.com/bcflyguys?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
.Website
https://flyguys.net/
this year was a challenge but it was fun because it pushed us to go and try new water. We fished a lot of the lakes that winter killed. It's very rare that when a lake kills it's a complete kill. People say, well, what if it was almost a complete kill? There's not going to be many fish in there. Okay, right, but from the way I think, to me that's a good thing because now I can monitor that lake over the next year or two, know that the few fish that are in there are going to have an unlimited buffet of food and there's nobody competing with them, so they're going to grow fast in productive waters. So you know that's really getting into the big fish world of note-taking and history and tracking everything that you do and when you did it. You know there's a lot that goes into it.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Dead Drifter Society, a fly fishing podcast to share information, our adventures and our opinions. We want to see where everyone is at in life and on the water. We'll ask questions and get answers so we can learn everything there is to learn about fly fishing. And now here's your host, andrew Barony.
Speaker 3:Welcome back, dead Drifter. On this episode we are talking some still water. So we got Brandon Dixon from BC Fly Guys we want to get them on for a while so it finally happened and guess what? We talked still waters. Yeah, it was really awesome chatting with him and picking his brain, because it's definitely something that I don't get to do a ton. So we talk about fly selection, tying flies, not getting overwhelmed by everything that's out there, and you know what it is to really grind to catch those bigger fish. So I hope you enjoy the episode. I know that we both enjoyed creating it. So, that being said, I will see you down at the end. Welcome to the podcast, brandon. How's it going? It's going very well. How are you? I'm doing great, man. I'm glad that I got you on because I haven't had anyone talk about lakes for a little bit, or pretty much solely about lakes, and yeah, so I know that there's a couple of you on BC Fly Guys, so it's yourself and Rob Bruno.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then I mean we've got, you know, a bunch of other people that have contributed stuff over the years and that kind of thing. Ben is a big contributor of different things, but there's all kinds of Fly Guys and Fly Gals out there that we've met over the years and that kind of thing that have contributed. There's a I mean our website is. There's a ton of information on that thing and we couldn't get it all on there ourselves. So over the years there's been ton of people that have contributed. But as far as the fishing and that kind of thing goes, rob and I are doing the majority of it. We fish all the time. It's hard to find guys that are as crazy as you are and want to fish that much. But I don't have kids and his kids are growing up, so it's it's not a bad combo. So we get our, we get our fair share time out there.
Speaker 3:Nice. And then, how did BC Fly Guys start? What was kind of your feel?
Speaker 1:that. Yeah, rob started it back. I think it was 2008 or 2010 or in and around there. Anyways, I think what he wanted originally he wanted to get into like computer coding, website building that kind of thing, and I mean this is back. Then it was a totally different game than it is now. You had to code your website and build it from nothing. You couldn't just pay $9.99 a month for somebody else to do it right. So he was told that you know, the easiest way to learn is to try and pick a subject you're passionate about and go to town. So he picked fly fishing and FlyGuysnet was born. And then from there it grew into the Facebook page, then into the YouTube world, and I think it was four years ago we started the Instagram thing and kind of brought us to where we are today.
Speaker 3:All right on. Was he always kind of selling stuff and doing blogs and all that, or?
Speaker 1:Not really Like. I mean, the information was. He was always like to share that. That was part of what the website was for. You know, there's so many different techniques and patterns and articles and recipes, like you name it. There's a ton of stuff on there. But yeah, it was just really to share a little bit of information.
Speaker 1:You know, back then the internet was kind of doing its thing and there was a lot of it out there, but it was, you know, it's that simple, easy to understand, nothing too fancy kind of approach that we just take and the website kind of took off. And when he started the Facebook channel it kind of took off and so there was obviously a bit of a need for it. But still, water is a pretty small portion of fly fishing, I feel like it's. You know, obviously, when people think fly fishing, you think of that guy flipping a little three-weight dry fly in the small stream kind of thing, right, not chucking 30 foot leaders with swivels and bobbers and heavy tungsten flies and that kind of thing. It's so. But yeah, I think today it's just growing so fast, right, and I think that's, you know, having this info out there for people is kind of our way to just help more people get into the thing that we love so much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, because, like I definitely realized when I first started and I knew a little bit more about fly fishing, I mean, a lake can be very overwhelming if you're just like you just show up at the boat launch and you go, it's like I don't know. I trolled for the first like year and a half almost of my fly fishing journey and you know, as cool as that was, I guess it wasn't really what I was looking for. And then when I actually took a course from Jordan Ulrich and Phil Rowley, then I was like my mind was blown. I was like, oh my God, this goes in depth, yeah, it goes deep and yeah. So everything from just like finding structure and I mean, if we weren't using a fish finder, then you know a little bit harder but still some things that you can look for that could give you some ideas. So that really helps it out. But how did you get into still waters?
Speaker 1:Mostly because of where I'm from. So I grew up in Northern BC little town called McKenzie and my dad was a pretty avid outdoorsman. So naturally we spent a ton of time as kids camping and he taught my brother and I how to fish conventionally when we were pretty young. And then it was actually my brother when he was like probably eight years old he's three years younger than I am, but he was like eight or nine years old and for some reason got into I think it was through one of my dad's buddies or something got into fly time. There was a group of old dudes that kind of gathered at the hall back home and one night a week and they would get together and tie flies and Blaine taught. That was pretty, pretty fascinating. So he got into it and learned at a pretty young age, only ended up doing it for a few years and once he grew up a little few years later he wasn't so into it.
Speaker 1:But that's kind of what kicked off the fly fishing for us. And I mean this I was a 12 or 13 year old kid with a fly rod and we didn't know much. I mean I'd be lying if I told you a piece of bacon or a piece of worm didn't end up on that fly sometimes you know it was, but we camped at this one place just outside of town all the time and it was right on a lake. There was a little creek that went into the lake at the beach and I spent hours and hours and hours at that creek mouth, my brother and I chucking things into the. We used to like the creek because we sucked at casting, but if you were good, you could just kind of flip your line into the creek and feed it and the current would take you out and let your fly sink and then you could bring it back Like it was. It was pretty interesting anyway. So I did that until I graduated high school and then the real world smacked me in the face and work became a thing and I ended up going up north. I worked the oil patch for a few years and so I didn't fish at all. And then when I left the patch, I moved to Vernon and so now I'm probably 22-ish and I picked it up again and, just like when I started, I just went hair straight back. I just dove right into. It was fishing any chance I got. Eventually I ended up moving to Cam Loops because I was coming out here every weekend to fish and it didn't make much sense to stay in Vernon if that's the case. So I've been in here now for probably almost 10 years, I guess, and I met Rob shortly after I moved here at a lake. And then the last 10 years are a bit of a fishy blur.
Speaker 1:Initially I didn't tie, I've only been tying, for I think this is probably my seventh year now, so I picked that up late, but that was no different, like during the winter. I promise you that in two years I probably tied more flies than most people that have been doing it for 20 years. It just consumed me, I just fell in love with it and when you knew at it, it's interesting because you see your own progression right you go from tying cronies the size of my finger like this, and I still have those boxes. They're tucked away. I never got rid of them. It's funny to pull those out sometimes and compare them to what I do now.
Speaker 1:But yeah, just the whole part of it just kind of consumed. Everything I wanted was to do with fly fishing or fly tying, and I wonder if there's a day where that's gonna go away and so far it ain't With the tying part. There's constantly new materials and different things you can play with and different types of flies from all over the world you can mess around and play with and with the fishing thing. It just never gets. It's a new puzzle every time you go to lake. I don't care if you were there last week and you're going back this week, it's still. It's a totally different game. So it's never really. The challenge is always there and as long as I'm challenged with something then I'll probably keep doing it. When it becomes easy. I don't wanna do it anymore, but I promise you fly fishing will never be easy.
Speaker 3:No, not at all. Yeah, you just mentioned really like basically a larva looking cronimate, and that's exactly what mine were as well.
Speaker 1:Just stick bodied.
Speaker 3:I think, yeah, you put glue on them. They look like you're in a chrysalis or something.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:That is so funny.
Speaker 1:It's funny, everybody's got that story if they've tied cronimids.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they still caught fish. They still caught fish.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we did. That is my one, especially Rob, but both of us. That's one thing we tell a lot of people is a skinny cronimate will always catch fish. A fat cronimate will sometimes catch fish, but there's days where a skinny one can outperform a chunky one, but not the other way around. So this is something for people to know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, and I think that natural progression, like you were saying about looking at your boxes year after year. I mean it's pretty crazy the little tips and tricks that you learn and you try them out and you get better and better at them and then you look at, like last year's box, you're like I can't fish last year's box, I'll never work.
Speaker 1:But it was working for you the year before. I would prefer that very, very well, right, yeah, and I did that for probably like no bullshit. I tied a new massive box every winter for probably three or four winters, maybe five, right. And in the last few years, the last four or five years, it's just. I just feel the gaps in the box and that's it right, it's everything that I tie now is tied exactly the same way, so it doesn't look like in those years. If I would have tried to do that, I'd have skinny chronomids mixed in with that one, so it just wouldn't work, right? But everything evolves. I mean, your leeches get better, your speds get better, your cat is get better, your maize get better, it all goes. But yeah, to the guys that are tying a new box every year, if that's what you're into, great. But yeah, I gave up on that. That's way too much to handle nowadays. Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 3:I definitely was handing out a lot of flies at first when I was at the river, so that's where a lot of my not-so-nice flies went. They still work, so that's off to you Enjoy. But I found, especially with nymphs and stuff, learning how to tie a thin-bodied nymph versus a outrageously large thing on a hook was a major game changer, and even just the thread control that you get from tying a chronomid constantly and all that skills you'll never forget.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people say that a lot, that oh, chronomids are so basic and that kind of thing and they are. But what you just mentioned is a really good point. You can learn a ton from just tying a chronomid. Right, I mean learning thread control. You can watch people that have been tying for two, three years and they don't have great thread control. That goes a long ways to when you can put those wraps where you want them and the way you want them. That goes a long way to building a nice looking fly. So little things tend to make a big difference in this game.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I found the progression as well with a stronger fly is when we first started with doing the whip finish or whatever. Maybe the flies would just fall apart instantly. And now the flies last, multiple fish for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's one thing we've kind of been known for and we take a lot of pride in. We build our flies to last. And if you go on the site and look at the reviews, it's one thing people say a lot you can go through If you get a well-glued, well-tied fly, especially a chron. I mean there's no reason 30, 40, 50 fish can't be caught on that one fly, right? I've got some that, just the basic ones, that they're never going to fall apart, like they're glued, they're cemented, they're not going anywhere. And that's a big difference compared to flies that aren't because, like you've experienced it right, they just as soon as that thread comes apart it's toast. And we've always even like the ASB fat is an interesting one.
Speaker 1:I saw tons this summer of and spring of ASB flies where the ASB is all unraveled. I don't tie a ton of what we call Ironman style or where you use your underbody and then your ASB for the rib to create the segments. Just because if I wrap ASB up the hook and then put wire over top of it, if my ASB breaks it's not going anywhere. I can hit it with a lighter melt, the little tag, and it'll stay held down by the wire or that other style. You chop the end of that thing off, the whole fly unravels you'd cull straight. So even little things like that and I've never been outfished by one of those versus a regular one. So until I am, I'm going to keep tying them more durable way, because it's less that I have to tie for myself at the end of the year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely durability over a lot of things I know, like I was saying, mentioned to you maybe before we started the podcast, I was like, using a lot of dries and those tiny dries, I mean, you can't soak them in glue by any means, that's right. Yeah, so those ones, the hack will pop off sometimes after one fish and like, yeah, no, it's brutal, especially when you're paying for them. I didn't have time to tie the amount of flies I needed, and not in dry flies. That's the one thing that when I tie a dry fly, it's slow and steady or it's a giant Chernobyl, and then yeah, yeah, yeah, you get those in that.
Speaker 1:Even I mean, I've got a little experience with hackle and stuff. But some of that dry fly stuff, those guys, talented dudes, to tie those flies, to be able to do them quickly and efficiently is when you're using that kind of shit. It's you know what I said about thread control, those you got to have that feather control. Same thing, right, yeah, laying that down, tying it in the right way, getting the fibers to where you want, I mean it's, yeah, it's, it ain't easy. So that's off to those guys and thankfully I don't have to tie a down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, under a stuff, yeah, even like I don't know. I find dry flies are one of the most challenging ones as well for leaving enough room at the eye so you can actually like with finish and put your your tip it through it. That's, that's right. Brutal proportions Apportions. It's a tough one, but what kind of led you into like actually kind of all right, sorry, no, let me backtrack. What kind of got you better into tying? Were you doing like a lot of tying with other people or just YouTube?
Speaker 1:When I started it was more or less YouTube. That was kind of my huckleberry for for learning, but honestly, I think the majority of it was just sitting down and doing it. After you watch a few videos and get a general sense of what needs to happen, then from there it's like anything else. Right, repetition is is your best friend. You know, doing it over and over and over until you get good at it. But, same thing, it was a challenge, right, it's, it's something new. It was, it was interesting and so it was just. You know, every. It was a few hours every night, it was days off, it was everything and and.
Speaker 1:But I didn't do a whole lot of the book stuff. It was mostly just videos online. I can't even think of the channels In the riffle on. Youtube is like an old YouTube channel. You may have seen it. That guy did some awesome videos. I think Phil was doing videos back then as well. Maybe he had just started them, but he had. Phil Rowley had some stuff out there. So you know there wasn't a ton of of what you see today Like it's crazy dude, like if you fly fish 10 years ago. It's a completely, completely changed landscape from from what it was 10 years ago, right Even five years ago, dude. Like it's, it's changing so fast and there's so many people getting into it now that it's it's almost tough to keep up with stuff right?
Speaker 3:Oh man, it is overwhelming. I remember I had spent a while since I've actually like watched a tutorial and tying a fly, but last time I was looking out something and it gave me like eight different options for the same fly, all different materials and like that would stress me out. A lot was like the material selection, and so now I just have this like sea of materials on my wall and materials out the yin and yang, and I'm like now I'm like, oh, I don't have that. Whatever, this one's going in there, that's good.
Speaker 1:That's just so. That's a great point that you bring up and I'll touch on it a little bit because I feel like people need to know no-transcript, do not think that when you're getting into fly tying, do not think that you need the exact material to tie every fly exactly the same. There is a lot, a lot of confusion in fly tying nowadays and the popularity of it is kind of leading to the confusion a little bit, because Instagram, youtube, any social media platform, has kind of become a stadium to show that stuff off and there's some seriously talented people out there that can tie some pretty realistic looking stuff and it looks cool. So new tires want to flock to it, right. But little do they know that it's probably not going to catch a lot of fish, right. So that confusion is big right now and I see it in new tires. You see it in people that take our courses every winter. They're asking all kinds of questions about trying to get everything exact and I just like to preach to keep it simple. Theory, because, honestly, especially in still waters, because still water you can get away with it in still water, I think probably in Rivers too, right, but in the still water game, if you've got some. You're just getting started and you have some leeches and some scuds and some attractors and some prawns. With that. You can go out and have a season of fishing right there, just with that stuff, right. So don't think that you need every single fly that you see on every single person's post and that kind of thing. There's a lot of fluff out there in fly tying so try to keep it simple, stick with what works and just don't be overwhelmed thinking that you need every material exactly the way it is.
Speaker 1:I, like you, have boxes and boxes of unopened stuff or that got opened once. There's one strand missing or whatever it might be, and now it's something I'm probably never going to use. I have that and every year we donate to schools and fly tying clubs and that kind of thing. We donate a lot of extra gear and even doing that, I still have tons of shit that I'm never going to use again. So, yeah, don't get caught up in that.
Speaker 1:Before all these materials you go back 10 years guys were using the inside of chip bags and granola wrappers and baby bell things, like all kinds of different materials that you just find around the house or a craft store. I tell every new tire to walk into a craft store, because you can buy so much of the stuff that you need at a craft store for a fraction of the price. You know tinsel. I've got this lashaboo here. This is a prime example. Dude, this, I probably paid six bucks for this. You can go to the dollar store and buy Christmas tinsel for 99 cents and probably get three times as much, and it's the exact same stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it came from the same place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the kind of stuff that. But people don't know right, and not a lot of people, I don't know what it is. I mean not a lot of people buy into the basic program in fly fishing and fly tying, but it's just one of those things where so many guys have a good jillion different flies in their boat and it's just. To me it's not super important. If you get something close to what they're after in front of them, they're probably going to eat it. We're talking about this year, don't forget. We're talking about fish. Sometimes they got ebrains, right, I mean, yeah, so yeah, just if I can stress anything, it's that keep it simple mindset when you're getting started. Don't get overwhelmed. Latch on to a few different things that'll work for you and progress from there. But, yeah, don't let the vast stuff out there bother you, because it's probably not something you need anyways. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I'm like, especially with Instagram or YouTube and all the social media. There's people that are tying for Instagram, which is great for the beautiful fly patterns, much talent in the art form of it, and then there's this ugly thing that I tied up here and I'm going to go smash some fish with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's where that confusion lies is, and I don't know how much back in the day guys used to do the art side of fly tying, but it's certainly its own market now. I mean, I promise you there's plenty of guys out there that hardly fish but really like to tie flies and tie some pretty crazy looking stuff that is like a painting, right? I mean, that's the way I see it. When guys do stuff like that, some of the old school salmon flies from out east with crazy feathers and different tints, those things are nuts and they should be on a wall somewhere, right, and that's okay. That's to each their own right. But that stuff is what confuses the people that are new to it. They don't know the difference whether they need to try and learn how to do that, or some people might look in that and go, well, hell, I can't, I'm never going to do that, I'm not fly tying, right. When really they could just wrap some thread and wire around the hook and probably go catch some fish.
Speaker 3:Yeah go tie a leech. Yeah, I find, especially for me I think I mentioned it, I don't know if it was already recording at that point, but just once I started guiding, simplifying flies as much as possible to the point where, like you know, like I said, there's a time where I was putting tails on all my nymphs and then one day I was like I don't have time for tails, I need to tie 30 nymphs for tomorrow morning. Yeah, no tails. Look at that Catching fish Crazy, oh right, what I've never thought.
Speaker 1:And here's a big difference in why it can take people a long time to figure it out. I mean, you're guiding, so you're seeing this stuff every day. I fish, you know, 120 days a year. Robfish is probably 150 days a year, but it's that simple stuff. That, or the fact that you don't need that stuff. People that only fish twice a month or, you know, maybe three times a month, whatever it might be, you know it takes them that much longer to realize it. It almost takes them a season to realize that. Oh well, maybe this doesn't work right or I need this or I need that. So putting out the information is part of trying to simplify that process for people. Right, that's why we do it. Putting it out there is, we already know it, so it's right. It's mostly to just let other people realize you don't have to go crazy with stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%. And like, if you're tying legs on a, whatever it may be, and one leg is off and it's not sitting right, the fish isn't going to look at that and be like, oh my God, are you kidding me? Well, it's going to be all over the place in the water anyway, right.
Speaker 1:We look at stuff dry. And there's another thing a lot of people don't do. Right, put something in the water and see what it looks like. Wet, right, because all of a sudden, like I do not tie legs on any nymphs, any of my still water may flies or anything like that. They don't get legs anymore because they just brush out the thorax and make it but like you know what I mean Like, yeah, it's, that's, but you just learned that over the years, right? Or the legs are the first thing to fall off. And then all of a sudden, you're still catching fish and it's like that tail that you mentioned, right? Well, wait a second, if this thing can catch fish with our legs, why the hell do I bother tying them on?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm sure we've both experienced it, where we've had a just a stellar day on the water and, you know, halfway through your fly is just looking junky as can be, it's starting to kind of get beat up and but yet you're still on the fish and the fish are just smashing it harder and harder. And see 100%. Yeah, an ugly lie.
Speaker 1:Rob keeps a. Rob keeps a lighter in his bag, not because he's a smoker, just simply because for that reason. Right there is a beat up little crown, you know you just send a lighter to it, melt off the little bits and throw it back out there. Like you know, there's plenty of days where a hook and a bead would catch fish. On taking crawfish, I promise you and the peak of a hatch, a plain hook and bead will catch fish.
Speaker 3:Yeah, throw a little glue behind the bead, hold it up there, set it out. Now, this is something that popped in my head. So for rivers, I find a hotspot on my nymphs is something, so I'll put either an orange red or, you know, a purple hotspot. I find that helps. Do you ever do hotspots on your flies?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so anything from you know using, say, an orange bead in a spot where I would use a black bead or just you know a little, instead of a red butt you can do a fluorescent orange or fluorescent green butt. Instead of a black collar or a rusty brown collar you can use fluorescent orange. That's probably been my favorite hotspot color. So we sell the zooc in a hotspot version and really all the changes is just that thread collar goes to orange. But I found for the brook trout seem to like that hotspot stuff a little bit more than some of the rainbows do. Brookies can be persuaded with some flashy things in different colors and so they're a bit of a hotspot thing. But honestly I don't use them a ton. If you know, if I kind of have over the years really broken down my stuff, to be fairly, I don't use a ton of flies anymore so it's very rare that I'll dig into the bag and pull out the box that has hotspot stuff. But there's days where if it's tough sometimes you're going to try that. But we tend to cycle through different water and areas of a lake way more than we cycle through our fly box and I think that's good info for people is.
Speaker 1:We've got a series that we're doing right now called Day Tripping.
Speaker 1:We're not video makers by any means, but it's been requested for a long time and so we finally decided to do it and we just recorded an episode yesterday.
Speaker 1:But on that day I figured at the end of the day we had probably moved between 20 and 30 times and a lot of it was in the fall. The things get different in the fall, but really we started at the top of a shoal on the drop off and we were moving kind of 50 or 100 feet at a time, just pull anchor, drift down the drop a little bit, drop anchor move, drop anchor, move, drop it and dissecting that like that, rather than sitting in one spot dissecting your fly box. If you're not catching flies in the fall, if you can't get something on a leech in the fall, then there's probably not a ton of fish around and you're better off to just leave that spot and go find more fish. So yeah, that's when it comes to the flies and that kind of thing, rather than get too fancy with it, I would rather just take my staple and move to a different spot in the lake and try to put it in front of fish there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that makes sense. I, like I said, I only have a little bit of experience on lakes, but I do find like just move, and you know you can throw that into the rivers as well, like if you're not catching fish and you try to feed flies, yeah, maybe move on, even if it's just, you know, 50 yards or 10 feet over just doesn't have to be far all the time.
Speaker 1:I mean it's, it's just, they can be comfy in certain spots. You know, if I'm no, I mean, there are plenty of days where you might be in an area that you know holds a bunch of fish and you can't get them, and that's probably going to be the day. You know, if I'm sitting in 15 feet of water and I'm marking a bunch of fish beneath me and whatever I get isn't getting them, then I could certainly cycle through some stuff then, but not a ton of stuff at even at that point. Like you know I'm, I'm fairly basic in in my approach and and it's this time of year, time of year is kind of everything, but oh, hell's going on. But yeah, it's just, it's not not something you're going to mess around with too much. Move spots, fine fish, and if you've changed flies three times and you can't get any fish, then you're probably just better off to move spots and keep those same flies and try them somewhere else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, 100%. And I've also noticed, like you're kind of saying, what the drop off is, even just moving, you know, further down the drop off or further away from the drop off can really be the key. So if you're looking for vegetation, and you know, you know the fish should be feeding in, in, towards the vegetation, they could literally be like not avoiding you but like slightly just going around you, whether it be left or right. But I found, with you know, when, before I had my fish finder or the you know depth sounder, whatever we want to call it, and I would honestly have the times turn off the fish thing just to like see the bottom, and that was the game changer was was knowing what kind of bottom I have. Was it rock, was it, you know, soft, was it a bunch of vegetation and all that, and that was a huge key element to getting into more fish. But even just finding like a little hole in this one zone, that could just be, you know, a bit of a game changer as well. Yeah, you find you know.
Speaker 3:Let's talk a little bit about gear now. When you so if I was like brand new to the, to the still waters, I had a boat. I had two anchors I could anchor up and hold steady in an area. But I didn't have any gear. You know me, I went and bought, you know, two different rods, four different lines, all these things, and then by the end of it I was like I love my intermediate. You know, yeah, I'll use the sinking line for sure, but mostly I would be using a dry line. Well, here, like staple, like you just could not leave home without.
Speaker 1:Well, the intermediate line. So when you talk floater and then full thinker, I think in my world I have to have either of those. Okay, if you took away my intermediate lines then, take them away.
Speaker 3:Right on.
Speaker 1:I mean it's really underestimated what you can do with a floating line simply by changing the leader length you can. Now, typically in steel waters, we have the luxury of moving our fly slow for the most part, being able to control depth simply by having the right length of leader. I'm not retrieving it super quickly, having that sink rate of those intermediate lines to get a fly down and then walk through the zone quickly. I don't need it Now. There's plenty of people out there that have to have the type one, two, three, four, all the stuff. But if you're just getting started, honestly, if you had a floating line, a reasonable rod set up so I'm talking something there's plenty of combos out there in that two to $400 range you yourself a decent rod nine foot, nine and a half foot, six weight, three fish, nothing but nine foot six weights. I know the 10 footers and that kind of thing are super popular, but if you're just having one, it's going to be. Yes, a 10 footer makes it a little easier to chuck an indicator, but if you learn on a nine footer, I promise you you're never going to miss a 10. But then you can still pull out that full sink line and be able to put it on that same rod and cast that a whole lot easier on the shorter rod.
Speaker 1:So if I really had to, I would say floater, full sink, if you can get yourself a real combo with an extra spool. So you've got a floater spooled up, you've got a full sinker spooled up, and lots of guys that are just starting they might anchor for a little while, but I think you mentioned it when you started, you trolled a little bit, right. So having that sinker, if that's what you want to do when you're getting started, can change your day, right. Don't get people. I say don't do something because you think it's what you should be doing. If you try it and it doesn't work and you want to go back to trolling or whatever to get into a few fish, give her right. But yeah, again, it's a fairly simple thing a floating line, a sinking line, nine foot, six weight, decent reel, extra spool that can cover a lot of fishing scenarios in the still water game.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a really good point. I like my intermediate maybe, if you're just straight up, for personal reasons I've had really good success and the sinking line. I've also had really good success with something about my intermediate line, but my lakes are much different from what you guys have, so that could be the simple answer to the equation or whatever. But yeah, I find and same with the sinking lines you were mentioning. It's like, yeah, you could have probably like what, six or seven different sinking lines. Oh yeah, there's more than that. There you go.
Speaker 1:Now it's not just a type six, it's a type three, then it's a type six, then it's a like there's so much stuff out there and again we're back to now. As a new me, what do you do? Like, what do you do? That's probably the most intimidating thing in the fly shop is walking up and seeing a wall full of fly lines. Right, you look at them, you've got seven or eight different makes and then each of those has 50 different lines and then there's different weights and different sink rates and this and like no, no, no, no, hang on, forget about it, get yourself a floater and away you go, right, but yeah, the sinker is, I think, has become way more popular with dangling and that kind of thing. You know, before that was a thing you know.
Speaker 1:It's kind of funny. You throw out to somebody on the water that you're fishing a you know a 40 foot liter or a 45 foot liter and they kind of look at you like are you crazy, man? There's no way you're doing that. We talk about it on live stream sometimes and people put up the goofy emojis like yeah, right, right. But it's not uncommon, it's pretty normal for us to fish a 30 foot or a 40 foot liter. 40 feet's getting out there. Yeah, there's usually 30-ish feet of floreau on the end of my floating line, so it's you know. But not having to piss around with that and just be able to throw the full sink over the edge of the boat gives people so much confidence that was a super sweet technique that that good introduction has just blown up. I mean, there's so many people that do it now and I don't blame them. You can put your fly right in front of the fish and you know where your depth is. It simplifies it, which I love. I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, and I my first fish on a Chronomid I saw I was watching this guy on a lake and then this was when I was still trolling before I took that course and I wasn't really like trolling with a motor. I was in like yeah, anyways, long story short. I was like hey, man, I've been out here grinding, like what are you doing?
Speaker 1:You know, because he's just on fish, on fish, on fish.
Speaker 3:And I'm like, yeah, he's like I'm fishing Chronomids. And I was like, what's a Chronomid? You know the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole level of it. And he was like, well, you put on blah, blah, blah and you do this. And I was like, oh man, I only have sinking lines or a sinking line. And he was like that's fine, like tie this on the end of your line, put it straight down. He like showed me with the oh, just gap and run the net, yeah, and then find the depth, pull it up a foot and just wait. And I was like, okay, so I like set it all up and I'm waiting. And I was waiting and waiting and I was like, does this really work? I asked him that question and then, like my rod just almost popped out of my hand just pulling healed over and I was like oh
Speaker 3:my God, like it's happening. That's that moment, right there, you're kicked it. After that, there's no turning back. That night I went home and looked up still water and then Facebook gave me an ad for that course. I took that course and my still water game leveled up dramatically. Just getting like a little bit of information. That course was a ton of information, but if you can just like, before you get into going to shop, if you can just talk to someone that has a little more information, be like okay, this is like you know what I'm about to do, just like you said, you know, get yourself floating line, get yourself a sinking line. You know, and the reason they make all those different sinking lines, someone told me, is like hey, man, if you have like a slow sinking line, you just wait longer and it'll do the same as that fast sinking line.
Speaker 1:The difference is time, I mean, when you get right down to it, those things certainly have their place. You know, with specific flies, you want to be able to retrieve them at specific zones and at specific speeds. So if you want to be able to retrieve something slowly through zone, then you're going to need something that sinks slower, and vice versa. Right, so it's. Yeah, there's a ton of that, but we're talking really advanced stuff. I mean, if people want to know, like I could tell you, this year in the spring there was maybe two, maybe three days at ice off where I brought out a type three clear intermediate and there's been one day so far this fall where I brought it out. The rest has been either a type seven or a floater. So like that fast like drop me down.
Speaker 1:Well, it's mostly because I dangle with that. Yeah, I fish a ruby with that and I fish dragons or, you know, gumfish, that kind of thing with that. So I use it for a lot of searching stuff. And then when we do the deep water stuff, the 60, 70 foot stuff, I use it for that as well. But yeah, it's between those two lines, it's.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe I would catch more fish if I use the intermediates a little more. I don't think so, otherwise I probably would, right. But you know, the other thing too is bobbers have kind of taken over the world, right. Yeah, you know the amount of times I can. I hang that under an indicator. You can hang that under an indicator. You knew whatever you want, right, there's no rules to this game. But yeah, bobbers have kind of taken over the world and I'm okay with it. I love watching a bobber go down and you know it's. Again, it's a fairly simple way to get started. If you're new to it, right, anybody can figure out how to rig up a bobber and if you hang that thing in the right spot, you'll probably hook a fish or two. So it's made fly fishing a lot easier, having that the strike indicators become super, super popular.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then if someone's getting new to this and wants to get into the still water game, then I guess your website is also a good spot to start. Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's a ton of information there. The rest of our stuff is just that PC fly guys, instagram, like I mean. There's four years of posts there. I think we're almost at a thousand posts maybe but there's tons of them that have information attached to them, techniques attached to them, what we were doing on any specific day. I answer I wouldn't say a hundred percent because I get busy sometimes but easy.
Speaker 1:99% of the DMs that we get I try to respond to them if I can. Sometimes there's questions that I won't answer, but when it comes to what should I go out and buy? I'm new to this I need a rod and eat this. You know, I really like when people bring so you obviously get a lot of people. You know where can I go, what can I do, blah, blah, blah. That kind of thing. I like when people go out and and experience a tough day and then message with questions from that tough day. I can relate to that so much more than just somebody looking for information. Right, like this guy. I want to help that guy because that guy wants to learn, right, he went out there, he tried it, couldn't figure it out. Now he's asking well, what did you try? What didn't you try. Okay, maybe this next time, that next time, you know.
Speaker 1:So, anybody with questions, we answer them. So, whether on any of the platforms, whether it's Facebook, youtube or Instagram, we will, we will reply. So if you have a question, then then we're happy to help. I give the same answer on Lake information. So anybody that asks about Lake information, we do not give anybody's Lake specific information, and that's just to keep things reasonable amongst everybody. You could ask me about the most wild on Lake on the planet and I just I've always done that and that's just to kind of keep it like I say, keep it reasonable amongst everybody. But if it's a technique, a pattern of material, rods, reels, lines, whatever don't be shy and people can feel feel free to reach out and ask about those. Yeah, I don't care like it's all tough about this stuff all day long.
Speaker 1:So answering questions like that and you know it's super neat when you like I'm thinking of this one guy that he asked quite a few questions but he always goes out and try something first and then comes to me and and there's been a few times where you know we'll have a message back and forth for a little bit and then he disappears in. A week later I hear from me sending me fish pictures because you know the stuff we discussed that he's tweaked what he's doing and now he's into it. Right, that is seriously satisfying as a human. I don't like to me that. That's as good as it gets when, when you can help somebody go out there and and you can you know you can when somebody's messaging you, it's tough. But if you ever talk to people or video call me that. You see it in their voice, you hear it in their voice, you see it on their face, the excitement they get from it. That I mean that is if I can be a part of getting somebody addicted to fly fishing. I'm in.
Speaker 3:Yeah and no, and it's like you said. You know, if I just came, hey man, can I have the GPS coordinates to the spot you caught that fish? Like that's just a question, don't even bother. But if you're like, hey man, I was out on this lake for eight hours, I caught one fish. This is what I did, you know. Yeah, I don't. I don't think there's many anglers that are passionate about it that wouldn't lend a hand in that sense. No, that's even.
Speaker 1:And same thing. Like I tell people all the time and I promise you there's people that don't Don't do it, that could do it like if you see Rob or me out on the water, if we're catching fish or you want to pick our brain out there, you're already there, we're already there. Yeah, let us across the lake. We don't care, like, give her, we are very open with stuff and we're not going to tell you where to go and how to get there. We're just going to say here's what it is, try this, try that. You know once, once people are at a lake, they're at a lake. You might as well help catch them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that brings me up to this one thing that Phil said and I had him on he was talking about. I asked him about like a crazy story or something like that and he was like, yeah, I once had a guy like row or motor to my, to my barber, grab the barber, pull up the line all the way, look at the fly and drop it down and leave. Yeah, yeah, this guy just like showed up without saying.
Speaker 1:Thank you, don't do that, just ask. That's pretty aggressive, I might have to say if that happened.
Speaker 3:And I would. I wouldn't do anything but at the same time I'd be like, did that just happen? Yeah, yeah, I'm not surprised, but no, that's. That's. The thing is like he said you know if you're out at the lake like any good angler. That's like knows they're going to get in fish, knows if the guys over there with the same exact rate on it's both going to get fish. It's not going to change your scenario for you.
Speaker 1:And you know I hate the fact I get it there's still people that that don't want to tell people what they're doing and they want to be the only guy on a lake catching fish and you know, if that's your stick, that's your stick. But if you run into somebody like that where you ask them a question and they tell you to go away or they ignore you or they whatever please do not let that deter you from doing it again with somebody else, because I feel like 20 years ago it was one in 10 guys would give you that information and now today it's one in 10 guys that won't give you that information. Most people are pretty forgiving when you, if you, meet them out on the water, so, but I think people can get rattled a little bit when they ask one time and they get shut down right. So don't let that bug get it. There's going to be people like that. It's just the way the world works.
Speaker 1:But the next guy I'll probably you know, probably you know how many times I've just given out flies on the lake or whatever it might be Right. I mean that's these are little things that you know. If a guy doesn't have the right thing and that's what they want. That day it's you hook them up and he ain't going to forget it.
Speaker 3:Yeah exactly and like for me whenever I was like shout out to all the beautiful people that helped me out when I was struggling, but most of the times, once in a while, they would just notice me struggling and trying and come help me. Yeah, but I would literally just be like, hey, man, I'm struggling and you just seem like you're in the zone. Is there any information you can share with me? And yeah, you know that's it, if you're polite about it.
Speaker 1:you're reasonable about it. If a guy can't answer the question when he's approached that way, well, I'm not going to tell you what I think of that guy but. I think you get the idea.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had one of my first experiences on a lake was just a complete. I got an inner tube or like one of those float tubes.
Speaker 1:But I started and I think everybody starts in a float.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I started a little special with it. I got out to the lake, get in my waders, get into the thing, I kick off, and I didn't know I needed flippers. So now, now I couldn't touch and I'm just like doing circles. So eventually I like opened up the fly box and I was using that to get back to shore. Oh, that was funny. But anyways, I like eventually caught a fish and I was watching this one guy just slaying and we met up in the parking lot as we were both packing up and that guy, I talked to him for like a good hour and a half.
Speaker 3:He ended up giving me a fly box with a handful of flies. So I don't know his name, but you know that guy made my day so special and like the next day I was out there again with flippers, I went to the store you learned from my mistakes and you know and and wasn't catching anything near what I saw him catching, but I finally was getting into some fish and like that, those little moments he can just change a person's perspective.
Speaker 1:Like that was how many years ago.
Speaker 3:Right, oh yeah, seven plus years.
Speaker 1:And years from now. You're not going to forget that. No, right? So to the folks out there, you can see how much of a difference sometimes it can make to people when you just share a little bit info, right, yeah, and, and you know we're. You know we get called out all the time for blurring backgrounds or or only having water in the backgrounds of a lot of our pictures or whatever. And and that's OK, you know. I mean, it's we, yes, we are. We are protective of some of the water we fish and and it's, I'm sorry, it's with good reason like big fish are not easy to find anymore. It takes a shit ton of gas and time and money and days full of butt kicking to find those places. So you know, that's the reason we do it. It's not that, it's not that we don't want to share information, it's just when it comes down to lakes, it's just not information I'm going to share only because of the sheer amount of time and effort it takes to find them. You know like we pick a number.
Speaker 1:This year was a very interesting year and I was very curious how it was going to go. You probably know, up here in region three we had a pretty substantial kill. A ton of lakes were affected, a little bit into region five as well, and so it's a year where, if you only fished a few different lakes, you were and they killed you were, you were in trouble, right it was. Now it's time to branch out and see what you can find. And and I think a lot of people had that issue, I mean we've been doing this for a very long time. So you know we have our, we have our lists and we go through them. But but every year we still we circle back to stuff that was a few years back. Even if it's just for a day or two, you know we'll go back to these places, check them out, you know, figure out what age classes are in there. Maybe you go back once and you find that it's just a bunch of turds. But you know those are the days you have to do those things, otherwise you're never going to find big fish. So for every big fish that you see posted, there's way more ass kickings and way more no fish than you'll ever imagine. Right, it's just the way it works, and this year was a challenge, but it was fun because it pushed us to go and try new water.
Speaker 1:We fished a lot of the lakes that winter killed. You know it's very rare that when a lake kills it's a complete kill and people say, well, what if it was almost a complete kill? There's not going to be many fish in there. Okay, right, but from the way I think, to me that's a good thing because now I can monitor that lake over the next year or two, know that the few fish that are in there are going to have an unlimited buffet of food and there's nobody competing with them, so they're going to grow fast in productive waters. So you know, that's really getting into the big fish world of note-taking and history and tracking everything that you do and when you did it, and you know there's a lot that goes into it. But that's the reason we hold that stuff tight to the vest is simply for that.
Speaker 1:I think the winter kill. The winter kill seems to have like made it okay to start dropping lake names. There's a few forums and a few sites out there that seem to have a ton of people asking lake-specific questions and naming lakes, and I don't recall seeing that in years past. But with so much kill, I mean I get that guys would be reaching out. But trust me, the less you can drop your favorite lake on the internet, the better off you'll be and the better off those fish will be, because, as popular as this is, it does not take much for a lake to be destroyed nowadays.
Speaker 3:No, and I've had an experience, many experiences with, like you know, we have steelheads. So I once posted a photo and it had the background in it that next three weeks that spot had never been fished that hard in its life. I think I was just, I was like and I knew I was like, that was me and it wasn't even a good run for steelhead. It wasn't like the run out there was just like because that photo was there, everyone went there, which was in a sense, okay because, like all my other spots seem to have freed up. So it kind of worked out.
Speaker 3:But it was like in my head I was like if they knew how that scenario happened and like what that fish was really doing, they probably wouldn't have even bothered going there. But the simple fact of that photo being out there and like you were mentioning, you know the best part about. Well, something I love about it fly fishing is just like you know. Yeah, you go out and you get scummed you go out and you catch a few.
Speaker 1:You never know. That, I think, is right. That's kind of probably where you're going. Like you know, there's gonna be days where you take an ass kick and there's gonna be days where, right, and I get it. I understand that not everybody is lucky enough to fish as much as I do and there's guys that work, you know, 28 days a month and have two or three days to go out and catch fish and can't keep their finger on the pulse. So they would like a little bit of information to go out and get some fish in the limited time that they have. I can totally appreciate that and I do right. But at the same time, if that's where you're at, then you know you only get what you put in right. That's kind of how life works. So you know. If that's the case, you know if you fish twice a month and you want to go out and catch 10 pound fish, I wish you all the best. You're just not in the right, not have the time to figure it out right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you got any lady luck on your side for that one for sure.
Speaker 1:Tracking, that is an insane feat nowadays and once upon a time it was. You know you'd see it happen a couple times a year kind of thing. But in today's world, cracking that 10 pound still water rainbow is, it's a hell of a feat. Like it's not easy to do anymore.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, you'd be better off hiring a guy. And if you're only getting a fish a few times a year, definitely just hire a guy. Have a good day that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that's a great. I don't think about it because we don't do the guiding thing. But that's such a perfect thing, right, Like if you want to maximize, that's what guides are for. They're there, they're keeping their finger on the pulse. You pay them a little bit of dough and you can go catch those big fish. Right, that's a great thought. That just doesn't go in my head. But you're exactly right.
Speaker 3:Well, I experienced that a lot with like people seeing them, you know, and they literally get a fish once a year and it's like to me, that's like not how I would ever live life, but that's what they get to do. So, you know, they come up to Canada or travel to, you know, wherever I'm at and that's what they get. So it's like, yeah, like that's your best, and if it's a new area and you, you know, you just moved there, that's probably still a good little bit of advantage, because each one.
Speaker 1:I know a lot of experienced anglers that do that, like if they're going to a new place or they're, you know, going to spend, if they're a region three guys that are going to spend a week in the caribou they might hire a guide for a day or two, the first day or two of their trip, you know, milk that guy for as much information as he's willing to give them and then play out the rest of their trip on that info, right. So that's a great point. Yeah, that's an excellent thought.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then you know, as far as the adventure it's, you get scunked so many days in a row and then you finally get into a good fish or something. You're going to feel way better than if I was like hey, here's the location on a map. Yes, Drop your line down 30 feet. You know, retrieve it like this and you got them.
Speaker 1:Here's what happened. Yeah, and it's. I mean, even though, like a lot of guys with fishing, if you don't have a report from the day before, it's probably not going to be the same anyways. Right, Like, yes, the month of May and June, that kind of thing, things can be fairly consistent when it comes to hatches in the crown mid world, but anything else is up and down like a yo-yo man, like it's.
Speaker 1:There's times where you know we'll go to a lake and have a banger day and just be like, ok, well, there's big fish in there, let's just go back there tomorrow. And then we go back and take an ass kick in and it's like what the heck? Right? So you know, sometimes getting that information from a guy that was there a week ago is doing you a disservice, because you're getting weak, old information. Things are going to be completely different by the time you get there. So you're going there on this false pretence that is going to be good and you still have no idea, right? I would rather just send it somewhere else and see what happens. But the adventure of it, the unknown, the you know, the, the puzzle, the all that stuff is, I mean, that's part of why we do it right. We go out and specifically fish lakes with tiny numbers of fish in them, because it's difficult to do and it's super rewarding when you figure it out, right, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the difference. Like I know, any day that I've caught, you know, over 20 fish, it's a great day. We all work it down in the books. It's a great day, yeah, that day that you go out and you grind, and you grind and you get, you know, four fish. Each four of those fish are just the most rewarding fish out there.
Speaker 1:Well, that's, that's kind of the big fish game, right? Yeah, that's the thing that a lot of guys don't realize. It's like when you hunt big fish, you're not. You're not going to sit somewhere and catch two pounder, two pounder, two pounder, two pounder, ten pounder, right, very often. I mean it can happen. But oftentimes you're going to somewhere where it's probably nobody there, because it's a miserable bugger to fish and nobody right.
Speaker 1:But if you get into something, it's going to be massive and I'm OK to sit all day for that one fifth right. But I've gotten to that point where I've accepted it and it's easy for me to say that now. But if I go back 10 years, I was just the guy that wanted that damn bobber to drop. I didn't care what was pulling it down, so I would just go to places where I know I could just catch fish, right. But eventually it just. You learn, you build and you want to keep challenging yourself. So you make it tougher and tougher on yourself. But yeah, but if you're just getting started or you're five years in and you just want to catch fish, you'll catch your fish. Look, it's right, there's. That's a beauty part about the interior is there's. You can almost pick out the. You know the type entry level type waters, the intermediate type waters, the super tough water, but there's plenty of places around Kamloops that anybody can go and just at least get into fish.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and that's that's like the progression. You know everyone. Well, most people, when they start, it's like I just want a fish. Yeah, please just bring me one fish, let me catch some. And then it's like OK, now I can catch a few fish. All right, Now I want as many fish as possible and then one day it's just going to.
Speaker 3:Something's going to tweak and you're going to be like I need a big fish and that's like you're saying. You're going towards that. The tougher scenarios you know the areas where other people don't go because no one really catches fish there, and not often, but that one fish could be that one that leads you to, you know, giant grain on your face, but that's right. The time put in, that's like the biggest thing and that was like something I, you know, very quickly realized doing. The guiding thing was just being on the water every day, or being on the water.
Speaker 1:That is still huge dude, and that's you know. I mean, I think people know we fish quite a bit. I don't know if they know exactly how much, but it's a lot dude. Like I can, I can. I'm super lucky to have a pretty amazing employer. I work at Dearborn Ford here in town. But these guys are like they give me way more time off than I deserve and that allows me to go out and fish. But you know, we're out all the time. It's just I can.
Speaker 1:I think I've had maybe three days off this this entire year where I didn't fish. It might only be two, but yeah, it's just like you've got to be doing it all the time. You have to have your finger on the pulse and taking notes and documenting what you're doing is so important because you spend all this time you. You spend a tank of gas to go and find the lake and then you spend a few days on it trying to figure it out and then you don't write any of that shit down and you might remember some of it the next year. But if you're two weeks late on your on your time and the hatches are done and now you're in limbo period, what are you going to do Like it sucks right. So document what you do. Keep notes of everything. That goes a long ways to to making life easier as the years go by.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think even like a strong point, for that is, if you barely fish, or like you just can't get out as much, take notes because, like those few days, you need to know each detail. Like you know, water temperature was this it was cloudy. I had a good day. Well, like, these are the flies.
Speaker 1:Work your fishing buddies for that information too, right, if you got I've got a few buddies that that I fish a lot more than they do and you know so they'll, they'll ask me what's going on and where it's going on, and and I don't mind telling my buddies. So if you've got fishing buddies that that fish once a week and you fish once a month, well, ask them for their info. Right, if they go out and they tell you water was 55 and they there was a small hatch and they got them on leeches early and gronds in the afternoon, and da, da, da, da, write that down. Y'all put a date beside it because next year, if you happen to be going fishing around that time, bing, right, there you go. So, yeah, there is, there is ways of of gathering info, for sure, but, but don't be scared to ask your fishing buddies, especially if they fish more than you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so key note on that is make friends with people that fish hard.
Speaker 1:That that certainly helps. Yeah, no 100%.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we got a pretty like tight knit group of friends where we're always sharing information and and that's really what it is at the end of the day, is being able to, like I go out. Something worked well for me. You know, I'm for sure telling my friends like this is what happened, this, I did this. You know, I mean simple little details, especially on lakes. I find I mean on rivers too, but definitely on lakes can mean the world of difference to catching fish and not, I mean they can, yeah, they can.
Speaker 1:timing is, timing is super critical, dude, like the difference between you know, knowing when things are happening and I'm talking like lake specific stuff, I'm not even talking like area specific stuff. I mean, you're going to start with area specific and eventually you'll break it down to being like specific, but but yeah, dude, it's timing is so, so important. Elevation, you know, being able to, you can prolong your season big time just by knowing where to go and when to be there. Right, we start, obviously hatches start at low elevation because low elevation comes off sooner and they work their way up with timing right. So if, if, if I jotted, jotted down the elevation, we would start at a thousand feet and go up to 4500 all throughout the spring. Right, so there's yeah, it's just there's tons of that stuff.
Speaker 1:But but timing for for knowing what's happening and when is super important. I, that's, that is what gets us so many of our fish, because you know it's not like you. You know you still don't know where you're going to get when you get there, but you've got a pretty good idea and there's a handful of times where, every year, where you get exactly what you know you're going to get right. Yeah, and then we also did touch on it a little bit.
Speaker 3:But like fly selection, you know that's one of the things that we always get overwhelmed, especially like you know you're being at the bench or you're looking on Instagram. But I feel like slight fly selection, Like if you think back to when people were first getting into fishing, or like you know all these old classic patterns yeah, people would have like five, maybe 10 different patterns and different sizes, but now you can like look at a hundred and it's, you know, overwhelming, as can be especially if you're, like at a fly shop and they're maybe not the most helpful or maybe it's not a full on fly shop, so there's not the information there. But I'd feel more confident with a handful of good patterns that I know are, like you know, the specific ones that should be working, then having a hundred that I don't know anything about or how to fish them One of our favorite things is.
Speaker 1:It's in an article on the site by Adam but is the right fly at the wrong depth will catch you nothing. The wrong fly at the right depth will at least get you some fish right. So it's just a way of kind of getting it to people that you do not have to have the exact pattern that the guy beside you is crushing fish on in order to do so. It is like when it's regular cron season stuff like May and June, I don't even think unless we're going somewhere new and trying new water, then Rob and I rarely even discuss what we're tying on right. So we both fish fairly basic stuff. We don't get too complicated in it. But it's not like I'm asking him what are you using. He's asking me what I'm using. He's going to tie on what he knows. I'm going to tie on what I know. Sometimes we're tying on the same thing. But yeah, just keeping things sized and profile are your two biggest huckleberries when it comes to fish. So you definitely want the right size, you definitely want the right profile from there. I try to break it down from size to profile and then not even color. Just are they like shade right? Are they darker, are they lighter, are they dull, are they shiny? You know, those are the different things that I break down.
Speaker 1:And I mean, there's plenty of times when you take a chronometer sample and there's stuff with a bazillion different types of crons, right? So do you really have to be specific there? No, there's sometimes when there's zoned in on something so specific that that's only what they want. Those are like one in 100 days, the days where you have one fly that's gonna catch a fish. I don't worry about those days, because I worry about 90% of what I can control, not the 10% I can't. Right, and that's the thing too, is you're gonna have shitty days. It'll happen. So what? But yeah, it's, thread is like the most underrated chronometer tying material on the planet Thread, yes, thread. What am I tying? I'm tying as we're doing this podcast and I'm literally tying thread body chronometers that are going straight into my box. So it's yeah, you don't have to get fancy with them, keep them skinny, keep them simple, and remember we're talking about fish here, not the smartest creatures on the planet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%. And something I always tell people is like a fish doesn't have hands, they can't actually test and like pick it up like we would and look at it and be like hmm no, I don't wanna eat that, it's they're going to bring their mouth up to it.
Speaker 3:They're going to. Maybe you might not hook them, but you'll feel something or you'll see something happen. That's right. Yeah, so no, it's something that did pop into my mind because, like, depth is just. You know, I'm not super experienced in lakes, so depth is always something that baffles me at times, not always it, just at times it baffles me. But if you didn't have a depth sounder, is there any kind of tricks that you'd use to figuring out what depths you should be fishing or trying to fish? Or is there? Any way you could systematically work through that.
Speaker 1:Until, probably five or six years ago, we didn't use a lot of electronics. Yeah, now your anchor ropes are an easy way to let you know your depth, right, whether you hand bomb it down or whether you mark your rope. If you don't have any electronics, marking your anchor rope can save you a lot of time because then you can enter an area where you think, based on the shoreline structure and that kind of thing, roughly where it's gonna be, and then just drop your anchor real quick. If you're at the depths you wanna fish, then fish it. If not, pull it up but move out or move in and do it again, right. Pretty simple way to figure out how deep it is and then just attaching forceps onto your fly at the boat and dropping it off over the side is. You know, we still do that now. I just watch it on the sounder rather than wait for it to hit the bottom.
Speaker 1:The one thing that I tell people about using forceps is you have to be very careful sometimes. So on these Chronomid Heavy lakes they have muddy, muddy bottoms and there's oftentimes where you can have five or six feet of just mud bottom and if you drop forceps into that, they're gonna go through it, right. So sometimes you'll watch your finder and you'll drop your forceps down, you'll see it hit the bottom and then, but it hasn't stopped in your hand, right, it's still going and it's just in the mud. So you have to be a little bit careful with that. But so we just we look at the screen and it just allows me. I can pinpoint that thing to six inches within the bottom, if I want to, using my sounder and yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's a few different ways to figure out how deep you are. But it's when we didn't have them. We would just go and chase hatches, right. You'd tour a lake until you find bugs. You can bet your ass that if you find bugs on the surface, I don't care how deep it is, there's probably fish beneath them eating it. Whether it's 60 feet or whether it's 10 feet, it's probably the case. So in the springtime, finding those bugs hatching is just as good a fish finder as actually having electronics, cause as soon as you get on the bugs, you'll probably be on the fish too.
Speaker 3:Right on. And then just one other thought that popped in my head if you're fishing a balanced leech under an indicator, would you still throw on a swivel, or just the weight of the balanced leech would be enough for you.
Speaker 1:So, side note never fish to balance fly in my life. Okay, fair enough. There's a lot of people that do. I'm not gonna knock them. I've never been outfished by one. So the day I tell everybody the day I'm outfished by one is the day I will tie one.
Speaker 1:But I run a swivel typically in about anything deeper than 10 feet. Right when I'm doing shallow water stuff. I will sometimes take it off. It kind of depends on the circumstance. If I'm not running a swivel, sometimes I'll put a little micro split shot on there or something just to keep things tight. Or if it's a really windy day, then I'll sometimes use a swivel or weight in shallow water just to keep the fly down in the zone. Even though it might be six or seven feet down On a windy day, that fly can.
Speaker 1:If you're using an indicator, that fly can get picked up two feet higher than you think it is right. So having that weight will keep that in the zone. So it can make a difference. But typically, just for simplicity, 10 feet or more, I'll put the swivel on. Rob never uses a swivel. He goes with weight or without weight, but he never uses a swivel. So you know like that's it.
Speaker 1:I try to point that out to people in sometimes too, like me and Rob fish a shit ton together, but there's still quite a bit of stuff we do the same, still a lot of stuff we do differently, right, me using a swivel and him hardly ever using a swivel. We both fish all kinds of different ways. He's partial to naked line stuff. I'm a little more partial to the bobber stuff. So you know like there's no wrong or right way to do anything in this game. Like you know, I get all the all.
Speaker 1:You know you'll post a fly and can I hang that under an indicator? Well, you can hang anything under an indicator, right? I mean, where would the world be if somebody didn't start hanging blobs under an indicator and they were only stripping them right? The fish would be a lot safer. But it's just a good example of if you don't try stuff you don't know, right. So people need to remember there's no wrong way to do this shit. It's if you can catch fish doing it, then you're doing it the right way, and if people didn't try new things, then we would catch less fish. So it's just one of them.
Speaker 3:Things, right, yeah that's a really good point to point out. Yeah, and it's funny because, like you know, my brain and I catch myself doing it where I'm like well, I was here yesterday and I caught fish. Why am I not catching fish now? Or you know, I read about this on this site or I heard this on a podcast. Why is this not working for me? You know that could be so many variants, time and all that, but yeah, like, as long as you're getting into fish, it doesn't matter if you're doing it the exact way your buddy does it or whatnot.
Speaker 1:No, it doesn't. It doesn't. If it catches them, then it's working and keep doing it. Yeah, that's really it. You can't do something wrong in fishing.
Speaker 3:Well, Brandon, I definitely appreciate you hopping on with me and sharing some knowledge and trying about the thing, because that was, yeah, I mean still waters for me. I still need to make it out your way and fish a little bit out there Because I love still water, but the still water game out here is kind of trumped by our river systems and all that. But yeah, I've yet to get an ask on my plate. So that's definitely. I know it's a little ridiculous. Well we get Frasier Valley out here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're fat but they're not rockets, no. And one year they put black water in the lake next to my house. Basically, and I was just like whoa. This is a different species entirely.
Speaker 1:Like is this? Even so, the transition between Frasier and black water is the same transition between black water and penonguese. Yeah, so Goldarn's tight.
Speaker 3:Yeah and I've heard like it's you know nothing against Frasier Valley, like they put fish on the end of our hook. So I appreciate it, but sometimes they just I love those fish, I mean the fat.
Speaker 1:The spots on them are super cool, they look good. When you you'll see in some of these video, the day trip and episodes that we have, you'll see a few fish that rip us way into our backing and when we put them in the net it's like really, yeah, Right, that guy going, that's just a penask thing, right, yeah, it's. When you land a big penask, it's an accomplishment, dude, because A you have to. People talk about it all the time. You got to hook it but then you got to land that sucker yeah, and notice things jump and peel and do everything under the sun. So hooking them is one thing, but it ain't like fighting the Frasier Valley. I promise you that. Oh.
Speaker 3:I know it's unforgettable. Oh, we got to get y'all to do that. I know it's rough. It's rough out here, man.
Speaker 1:Please come out here next spring. Just wait until next May, if any day, I'm off the entire month and get you open and off Off the entire month.
Speaker 3:I take that month off. That's a right off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the month of May is a right off. You won't find me at work in May.
Speaker 3:Nope, that's why I'm here boy.
Speaker 1:I wasn't kidding when they give me too much time off. But yeah, no, they're off, and to me that way that's so funny.
Speaker 3:Yeah. No, that is an accomplishment of mine that I need to get under. I've, it'll happen. I stress less. I used to stress a lot, but now I stress less because I'm like nothing but time dude, nothing but time. Amen, and well, I really appreciate you hopping on and yeah we'll talk soon. Appreciate it. Yeah, all right, man, you have a good night and I'll talk to you later. Bye, honbug.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to Dead Drifter Society. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. In the meantime, keep up with the show and get to know Andrew on Instagram at Dead Drifter Society. Until next time.
Speaker 3:And there you have it. That was Brandon Dixon from BC Flyguards on Instagram. I know they got a lot going on. They got the Facebook, they got the YouTube and they got the website. So I'll make sure I have all the links down in the description. And yeah, as always, if there is anyone else you'd like to hear on the podcast or you yourself want to get on, just shoot me a message over at Dead Drifter Society on Instagram, Facebook and Gmail and I will see what I can do Until next time. I'll catch you later.