Dead Drifters Society: A fly fishing podcast
The Indispensable Winter Fishing Guide: Techniques, Gear and Experiences with Austin & David
Have you ever wondered about the hidden intricacies of winter steelhead fishing trips? Well, you're in for a treat! As we gear up for the fishing season, we discuss everything from essential gear like recovery kits and portable air compressors, to the impact of shifting seasons on our adventures. This season has a pattern with summer lingering, fall lagging behind, and winter popping up earlier than anticipated. All these changes have an intriguing effect on our fishy friends' routines, a subject we dive into with zest.
During our chat, we get to hear from a fellow fisherman, Austin who spills the beans on his thrilling near-death experience due to a pineapple allergy while working for a top-notch steelhead guide. His terrifying yet enlightening experience is something you won't want to miss. We also talk about the varying success levels from our fishing trips and how a minor shift in conditions can make a significant impact.
In this conversation, we don’t just stop at fishing. We also discuss winter outdoor clothing and gear in detail. We cover everything from synthetic and natural fibers for warmth and mobility to waterproof bags, fingerless wool gloves, extra pants and sweaters, and the critical aspect of layering. The technological advancements in outdoor gear like heated jackets have made our outdoor adventures more comfortable, something else we dig into. In essence, this podcast episode is a complete guide for winter steelhead fishing trips and more. So, sit back, relax, and get ready for an exciting journey into the world of winter steelhead fishing!
•Davids Instagram
https://instagram.com/leftcoastspey?igshid=NGVhN2U2NjQ0Yg==
•Austins Instagram
https://instagram.com/rockin_flies?igshid=NGVhN2U2NjQ0Yg==
Have you ever wondered about the hidden intricacies of winter steelhead fishing trips? Well, you're in for a treat! As we gear up for the fishing season, we discuss everything from essential gear like recovery kits and portable air compressors, to the impact of shifting seasons on our adventures. This season has a pattern with summer lingering, fall lagging behind, and winter popping up earlier than anticipated. All these changes have an intriguing effect on our fishy friends' routines, a subject we dive into with zest.
During our chat, we get to hear from a fellow fisherman, Austin who spills the beans on his thrilling near-death experience due to a pineapple allergy while working for a top-notch steelhead guide. His terrifying yet enlightening experience is something you won't want to miss. We also talk about the varying success levels from our fishing trips and how a minor shift in conditions can make a significant impact.
In this conversation, we don’t just stop at fishing. We also discuss winter outdoor clothing and gear in detail. We cover everything from synthetic and natural fibers for warmth and mobility to waterproof bags, fingerless wool gloves, extra pants and sweaters, and the critical aspect of layering. The technological advancements in outdoor gear like heated jackets have made our outdoor adventures more comfortable, something else we dig into. In essence, this podcast episode is a complete guide for winter steelhead fishing trips and more. So, sit back, relax, and get ready for an exciting journey into the world of winter steelhead fishing!
•Davids Instagram
https://instagram.com/leftcoastspey?igshid=NGVhN2U2NjQ0Yg==
•Austins Instagram
https://instagram.com/rockin_flies?igshid=NGVhN2U2NjQ0Yg==
And then including myself in the earlier years. Now I'm pretty well prepared for most things. But what do you guys find are essential things to have for those winter steelhead trips, just to have in your vehicle?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I've been pretty set up. I've been adding. You've seen, I have actually used the rigid toolboxes. I actually like them, all the different toolboxes for my camping here, like I have recovery here and stuff, you know. So I always carry jumper cables. I do have a portable air compressor which I bring just in case the biggest one I've actually found, because we use a lot like I have like toaster up chain and an axe chainsaw broke so I need to get another one. But there's been some like we get winter storms and we take this one road and then she's like down trees. So most of them I could just like hook my toaster up and like pull logs out of the way or you're just not getting through and the detours like two hours if you go the other way.
Speaker 3:So welcome to dead drifter society, a fly fishing podcast to share information, our adventures and our opinions. We want to see where everyone is at in life and on the water. We'll ask questions and get answers so we can learn everything there is to learn about fly fishing. And now here's your host, andrew Barony.
Speaker 4:Welcome back, dead drifter. I am currently in Mexico on my honeymoon, so I will not be doing an episode next week and potentially the week after. It really depends on my schedule when I get back. But for today, what we got going on here we got David and Austin once again chilling on the west coast talking spay fishing. So this one we kind of went in on gear, and when I'm talking gear I'm talking about how we like to dress up to keep warm during the winter months. So we do talk a little bit about rods and reels and all that, but we stick mostly on how we like to dress up for the occasion. Really, hope you enjoy and I'll see you down at the end. How was your guys' trips that we talked about last time Go ahead?
Speaker 2:David, I think my timing just kind of been off a little bit because I went to the John Day almost a month ago, like three weeks ago, and it was really low water, water temps were high. I covered a lot of water like just walking for like just a few runs and yeah, everyone else was bass fishing. I should have known like being the only guy out there trying to find steelheads Probably the wrong time. Everyone's like I ran into a park ranger. He's like yeah, he goes. It should have been good he goes, but everything seems to be like about a month behind.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I definitely can agree with the timing of things right now Seems late. I have like this bit of a theory that is just like from now on is going to be things that are a month late.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think shifting in general, like all the seasons have changed and, like you know, it's kind of funny like growing up and stuff, like I used to do a lot of backpacking and hiking and that, and back in the day when you used to get topo maps, you could always like get updated versions and it'd show you like how much things were off, like magnetic, true north, and it's constantly changing, you know, which clearly is changing, like our north, south, you know it's kind of weird.
Speaker 4:I do gutters, so like when it's not raining and it should be raining, I know it.
Speaker 2:Like I'm like I've spent years just drenched right now and it's like hot out or yeah, it's getting cold out here, but like when the sun's at the right spot for good handful of hours it heats up, so yeah like I was working today in a t-shirt and I was like it's November, like something's off, and like all of October, yeah, like you know, pretty familiar that month, like time of the year, things that go on and it was just incredibly warm. It felt like it should have been September for sure, you know. Oh yeah, and it's weird because, like our, for like our area, it's like the summer definitely lingered on and then I was like, oh sweet, it's gonna be fall, falls just running behind and it's already feeling like we had a really short fall and it's already switching into winter. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I agree completely. It's definitely been like a developing pattern over the last couple years too. It wasn't like this is the first year and it's, you know, seeming to be like that. But my hope is that the fish is like, hey, let's just push things back a month, everyone I know, right, yeah, but we'll see. And then, yeah, austin, how's your fishing at Scopades?
Speaker 1:So, not a whole lot of fishing on my part. Actually, I went and worked for an outfitter. So, yeah, I got a pretty sweet opportunity to go work with Marty Shepherd oh yeah, he's a really well known steel editing guide and imminent wife Mia, and it was very awesome. I got to work on a very cool river and we got our clients got into fish. I was just the swamper, which is a helper for a bagger, yeah, and so my job was just going ahead and setting up camp and stuff, but it was really cool. I had learned like a tremendous amount and you know, it was very cool to see the steelhead in that system. What they considered small was not small in my eyes at all. Like I was like, oh my gosh, that is a great fish. And they're like, oh, that's a cookie cutter. I'm like what, okay, cookie cutter? Yeah, great, 27 inches and seven pounds, yeah that's.
Speaker 4:that's cookie cutter. All right, yeah, no.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, I was kind of insane but it was a lot of fun, other than my last night there. I almost died Like legitimately the closest I've ever been to dying in my life, so that was kind of crazy.
Speaker 4:Well, please do dig in.
Speaker 1:I know, I know. So I am deathly allergic to pineapple and there was pineapple on this trip, which no one knows, that I have an allergy to pineapple and I don't know that they brought pineapple because I'm like, ah, you know, it's not not a big deal, like no one's going to bring pineapple on a fall steelhead trip. Like who does that? Like no, me and Marty Shepherd do. That's part of their program. They love pineapple, all right, so that's kind of their thing. They like making it super bougie and we ate really good.
Speaker 1:The last night, the last dessert, there was cobbler and I didn't know that there was a mixed tropical fruit in the cobbler and there was pineapple. Luckily ooh, that's a good look at that, that's nice. Luckily our clients were all rich retired doctors, because I didn't have an epi-pin on me. My throat was swelling shut I mean pretty drastically quick, I mean within a minute and they sat me down in one of the camp chairs and they're everybody's checking my polls. So I mean they're taking off my shirt and then one of the doctors runs to his bag.
Speaker 1:Meanwhile one of the doctors was like we might have to do a tracheotomy on him and Marty is like, oh, and we're going to row him out in the dark to the boat launch, which is like another 10 miles down a river in the dark at midnight. I'm like, oh, my God. So not only am I dying from this, but I'm also about to have a heart attack because I'm hearing that conversation going on and I'm thinking I'm going to have my throat cut open just so I can breathe. So you know, that was a little terrifying. But one of the doctors comes back from his tent and he has an epi-pin. He hips on me with it and it's about two hours before I got everything back to normal.
Speaker 1:But, man, crazy life saving Less those guys. They literally saved my life and my only way of repaying them was letting them go through my steel head wallets and pick whatever they wanted out of them. And then it was like show and tell, they were all thought they were like amazing, immaculate flies. So like, oh, thank you. And the guy that had the epi-pin, he picked out a fly and he's like I'm going to name it the pineapple, the pineapple fly. So you know, he's like I'm going to put this in a glass case and put it up on my wall and it's just going to be named the pineapple fly. I was like that's just a crazy story.
Speaker 4:That's pretty wild dude. But also he's allergic to pineapple. Come on, dude.
Speaker 1:Me and my mom. Yeah, I actually wasn't born with it, my mother was, but I developed it when I was in my teens, working at Fred Meyers, when I found out I was a cashier and my hands swelled up like balloons Just from touching it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, like just like packaging it Bag for the person.
Speaker 1:Because there was like a big sale going on for pineapple and I touched like 20 in one day and it was like that day like my hands just swelled up like crazy I'm sure if I was, if I was to just touch it and like put it away really quick, it wouldn't be that drastic and probably just get itchy, yeah.
Speaker 1:But you know that much contact and then obviously consuming it, yeah, that's just fatal for me. So, yeah, pretty crazy experience. Other than that, though, the whole trip for absolutely epic dude I couldn't have asked for. I mean it was such a cool experience and very, very rewarding experience. You know those guys. It was hard fishing, though Two fish landed, three lost, so it wasn't like crazy on fire. Marty just got back the other day from another trip. He's done on that system now for the year and they landed eight on that last trip. So pretty, pretty awesome. So it's small differences, tiny temps, conditions, whether the fish are keyed in to just going or they're holding, you know so it's, it's just steelheading, like we all know. You know it can be super fun and rewarding and some days kick your ass and make you humble as hell. Yeah, that's pretty sweet.
Speaker 4:What a great opportunity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man he offered me to come back and work for him again and for next season, and so I'll probably be doing some more work for him Right on. Good for you, man. Yeah, man, I'm pretty stoked about it, but other than that, not a whole lot of fishing. This next weekend will be my first trip out going fishing for like in like three to four weeks. I haven't actually fished myself in like a month.
Speaker 4:Dude, though we're in the same boat right now. Last time I went out we knew it was going to blow out, but you got to sometimes see something to like for it to fully sink in. It was like the one day I could go anyways. So I had no, no options, and we like got there and it was, everything was blown and even Euro didn't work, so it was just like nothing. Then we went home like super early and I laid in bed all depressed for a good hour, and then wife and kid came home and I was like all right, it's still a good day. Yeah, I'm itching for it. But yeah, I'm itching for it. That's why I'm still tying flies right now, just to prepare for Mexico.
Speaker 1:So that'd be awesome dude, that'd be super cool.
Speaker 4:Well, I don't even care what species. It could be like a little grouper or something, anything. There's one fish out there, just connect in on someplace completely new. Yeah, I mean the arsenal's going pretty good. Now we're just working on shrimp, but I've been the atronaut at least tied two flies a night for the last little bit just to get ready for it. So nice, hopefully be overgunned, you know, not undergunned, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So when you get back, will that line you up for winter steelhead, or do you have to wait a while?
Speaker 4:No well, maybe with like how things have been pushed back, like are later, maybe not as much, but potentially, as long as water levels are fine, we should be seeing like a random few winter steelhead coming in in December. We usually do so. I wouldn't doubt that it would be the same. And then, yeah, they just keep trickling in and yeah. But like I said, I guess I didn't say it on the podcast, but I wanted to definitely touch on like gear and stuff, because not so much rods and lines, which we can still talk about, but curious how you guys layer up for winter and all that, because it is starting to get cold. I'm already wearing thermals at work Right Most mornings and then I'm like shedding off like a mad man like I'm like now so hot and then it like gets cold again.
Speaker 4:But yeah, I don't know whoever wants to start with that, Go ahead.
Speaker 2:David, yeah, I mean, you know I used to do a lot of backpacking and stuff too and or just work. You know we look at things a little differently. You know how you can warm up and that definitely a huge fan on like synthetics, natural fibers and layers, you know, rather than just like I'm gonna get the one jacket, you know kills mobility as well. Yeah, it's a little bit different because, like me and you, you know we work outside, so like our hands are probably conditioned a little bit different than some people. But I rarely wear gloves. You know, if I do, I usually use like the Sims, like wool fingerless ones, just because even when they get wet, like you know, high to man, you're like waiter, like fleece line pockets and they seem to like come back up within reason. I like to have just my fingertips for like mobility, you know. But yeah, like base layers, you know capilline wool, like to me, like marina wool, is like the jam, like I have like some long sleeve marinas. I got like a fleece line zip. Which good and bad fleece I've had it. They're great. You do have to wring them out if they get soaked is the problem, because they can weigh down. But I do like one of like the biggest pieces I like at it. I don't go without anymore. Especially they have a marina wool like buff. It doesn't look like it should be as warm because it's almost like more see through, but yeah, just keep them like ears, you know, then you can kind of change it like cover your mouth, cover your nose, like cover your ears. But I like it because a lot of times we, when we're fishing, you get those windy conditions and like if I'm wearing like just like baseball hat I do actually have like the Sims Gore-Tex hat, which I'll do like beanie than that just to kind of keep things dry but putting that buff over the top of my hat keeps it from like flying off the wind, kind of picks up, keeps my ears a little warmer.
Speaker 2:That's a piece that I just never leave without my bag. To me that's kind of a big one, probably the biggest one in winter. I think it's the people aren't doing it. It's worth your money and gold is to get a absolutely like submersible bag, you know if you're going to be carrying anything, and it doesn't have to be big. Like I still use like my OPST roll top bag, you know it's not super big, but like keeping stuff dry or even if it's just your snacks, actually keeping a sandwich or some bars or a drink.
Speaker 2:It's not like I need to be insulated, but do those that bag has like it's, like it's worth its weight and gold, like everything I've ever done. You know a lot of times I try not to just put like stuff in my pockets in that, but even that can get overweighted. Yeah, that bag is kind of money, especially when, like, the water is just going to be a little bit higher so you're always waiting deeper Any other bags just going to get. I mean we live in the rainforest, I mean you're on the island it's very similar like that or on the coast range and it's like, even if it's not like submersed, like the rain is going to saturate everything and you're going to know it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I agreed with so much you said there I was like, yep, oh, yeah, yeah, those gloves, yeah, the Sims wool ones. I now bring a pair to like I had one, that's the fingers are kind of falling apart, yeah, yeah. So I brought it to work and in the mornings I wear that is, I need my fingertips but you know, removing wet gutters and stuff like that or whatever materials are laying out there to do whatever is probably wet, and or it's raining, yeah, or it's raining and wet. It's crazy, man, what's going on. Yeah, majorly impressed with those Sims gloves for what they do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause I actually had the fleece ones as well and those like for some reason never really retain much heat, for some reason, even though they're like they have way more loft. And then those if those get wet, I don't know what it is Like. It takes forever for them to warm back up. Versus the wool, yeah, and flies get connected to them and that's like a rat nest. It's like almost impossible to like unhook stuff without like tearing apart. So those are kind of like backup. Somebody forgot. I'm like I'm sorry, but it's at least something if you need it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, having them back up to things is nice. Yeah, I always. Now I just like, when it's cold, wet season, I just always have like an extra pair of pants. In my truck I usually have an extra sweater so, like worse things to worse, I can strip down and just throw in a like pair of pants and I always have my back in the truck and then.
Speaker 2:So I'll just change out when it gets wicked cold, like for you know. So I'll run like same thing, like Kapline or like wool, like I use a lot of the REI base later. So they're super thin, really good mobility, things don't bunch up and actually work really well. I think that compression is like a big one. Yeah, first I wasn't sure about that. Like that's why underarmor is done really well with their stuff. I think it helps with the circulation.
Speaker 2:But when I know it's going to be like wicked cold and like it's a long run, like where you almost can't feel your toes, I actually have fleece stirrups that I use like so they got actually have them here. That's what I was saying. So on the bottom they're actually sewn. So that way when you put them on, when you slide your waders, they don't like bunch up. Oh, they cinch down. That's sick. Yeah, a couple companies I think these actually came from Cambellas and I had one from Patagonia before. Patagonia actually makes one that's more like like that synthetic, tough, tough, tough, almost like a down jacket, but it's synthetic, which I think will slide better on your waders. But these have worked really well, just because it's just something you can add on. But having those stirrups was like super game changing versus like just running sweats and trying to like throw my socks over the top to make them a little slide a little bit better. Those are something that's kind of worth this weight in gold. To me, what's that?
Speaker 4:What brand were they?
Speaker 2:I think they're from Cabellas. Yeah, these are the ones I actually just had here. And then I said I know like those new ones from I think it's from Nanopuff or something from that I have from Patagonia. Those things are pretty sick too, just because they slide a little better. But if your waders aren't super constricted in that these work just fine sliding in and out. I'll see if I can find a link and I'll send it to you guys. And they're totally reasonable. I think like 40, 50 US currency is about what they cost.
Speaker 4:That's like a thousand Canadian, I know right.
Speaker 2:Plus tax eh.
Speaker 4:Yeah it's tough. I bring my monopoly money and then they say this is monopoly money and I'm just confused out here.
Speaker 2:But the other ones which I cannot find, so I'm assuming somebody borrowed them or whatever I used to have when I used to do a lot of duck hunting. It was almost like a onesie but it was like a vest, so it was sleeveless and it would zip up and it had the same foot but it's a one piece with your chest. Having that insulate in that core. That thing was super comfortable because you didn't need like a belt or you don't have a bunch of bunch of other stuff. You got your waistline when we got like our belt and bag and stuff that we carry. You can get those.
Speaker 2:I said I'm trying to think of the name of the company. I have to look, but if you look at anything like duck hunting related, like I know, they're the ones that carry them. That's something that most people would not really look into unless it was something that you got into. But those were super comfy. I do believe in double layering your socks like a thin base layer and then like a medium weight to heavy weight like the wool sock versus just one thick sock. I think yeah, just having that extra barrier has been huge, like on my feet.
Speaker 1:I agree. I would say like that's something that's super overlooked, especially for newcomers. Newcomers are told oh, just wear wool socks, you'll be fine. And so they always just wear wool socks and they're like they come back from a trip and they're like dude, my feet hurt because they were so cold and I was like, well, how many pairs of socks were you wearing? They're like just one. I'm like go like a small ankle sock, man underneath, and then do like a wool sock, because even just that small little ankle sock, even though it's not much, does actually make a big difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, just separation of contact, I mean, because that cold weather just going to penetrate and whatever it touches, like we know that, like when we take our waders off, like touching anything on the outside feels like an icicle. Yep.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm super down with. I have like a waiting pair of socks from Sims. Yeah, I bought them like like so long ago. They were one of the first things I bought with for fly fishing is I bought my waders Like I did a big purchase is what I'm getting. Yeah, Big money man, oh God.
Speaker 2:Spend it.
Speaker 4:Spend it, yeah. But yeah, I do like ankle socks with those on because I don't like bunching up more on my calves, but I want that extra layer between my toes. So that's one thing. I usually always seem to get my waders big because I get them during winter, usually when you start to notice they leak more. Yeah and yeah. So I get, I seem to get a little bit bigger of a size because I'm always sinking my extra layers and then I shrink during, like the summer. That's how my body works. I'm like the Michelin man yeah, inflate, deflate, inflate, deflate, but yeah. So having like bigger waders is nice. It's not so nice during the summer, when you're like you know it looks oversized, but during the winter I have like all my shit. I usually have my coffee in my waders, just sitting there in the middle and I'm you know, I'm just a happy dude on a river throwing flies around in the air, probably looking like a madman to other people, but yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's like one of the biggest culprits of. You know, one of the first leak points are typically at, like, the neoprene booties. Yeah, like a big pinkel, and I think that's a huge part. Everyone wants that like clean, fit, but yeah, then they start layering. Yeah, that stretches those, whether it's glue or, you know, stitch seams. I think that's a huge reason. I found that out. You know, I had some Reddingtons and I went through a bunch and then I went up size on a set of Patagonia and it like lasted like three times the seasons.
Speaker 4:You know what? I get a lot of use out of my waders. I know I'm on a boat more now than I'm walking and waiting and my friends make fun of me for it. But yeah, having that up size, especially for like my, like for my pants and stuff I guess I wear like if it's really cold, I throw on this like I can't remember, like good for below 40 kind of underlayer, like thermals. There we go, and then I have another pair that's like good for like minus 15 or something or minus 20.
Speaker 4:And I throw that on and then a pair of sweatpants they are Sims, but I have other ones that I was happier with. Gotta, look good, in case I take my waders off.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Yeah, the other, like layer system. I'll like run a lot of times. I run best just to kind of keep that arm articulation mobility, like you know, from like my elbow to shoulder like usually doesn't get super cold as long as it's covered. I'm not getting like wet contact. So I usually do that and like a hoodie like whether it's just like a sweatshirt or like cold weather, like polar tech, like sun hoodie style, like having that to me like just covering the ears, the head, something that's like a little more fitted, so I mean like a rain jacket hood. I almost never want them up unless it's just downpour, because it always seems like it kills my vision. You know what I'm trying to ask in that in the hearing. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4:What? Yeah, but he's yelling at you and then you like turn towards them and all of a sudden you're like, oh, why are you yelling? Yeah?
Speaker 2:I've done a boat like I've had a hood on, I cannot hear the people behind me very well at all. Yeah, yeah, like I know a lot of people have like the hot hands to me, like those don't work well, like when they get wet, you know they're designed to be dry and to activate like a shake or whatever. So they have like those they were like rechargeable battery ones and those things are great because, like you hit it and, rather than waiting, like those things come on in like 30 seconds. As far as temperature, and I have one of those I picked up last year and I just leave it in like the center pocket on my waiters and it's nice because I can switch my hands back and forth and just kind of leave at a lower temperature because it's like already warm inside there too.
Speaker 2:That's been a pretty good bonus piece. That's nice. Yeah, I like those are like 30 bucks or something like that. And it's like people like, oh, I don't know if I spent. I was like you can spend that on your 20 pack or whatever of those little hand warmers. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I would say another is good, yeah, reusable. I mean, why spend the money for something you can only use once, when you can spend the money by once cry once, yeah, and have it?
Speaker 2:last, yeah, you're worried about it getting low. A lot of people you know, especially with camera gear and stuff like that. A lot of us have power banks. You know you can charge it up on a multi day trip or an overnight trip type thing. So, yeah, it's like it's on your drive time, just plug it in.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. You know, I found one of my buddies. He uses a heated vest and I was like at first I was like, dude, you're such a pansy like, get out of here with your heated vest thing. And then he's like, dude, screw you, try this for one day and tell me what you think of it. So he let me take it out during winter. Last year I came back to him I was like, dude, I'm buying me. That's so legit, like no lie.
Speaker 1:And they're thin too. They're not, they're not heavy duty at all, like it is so thin, like almost wearing just a little bit above a t-shirt, like an S and weight. And I was thoroughly impressed. And, dude, they get you sweltering hot. I mean you'll take off layers just to, or turn the whole thing off just because it gets you that warm. And it's like, wow, thanks. And they last forever. I mean they really do. My coworker he had one because I work in a cooler all day. We work in coolers being meat cutters and all and his literally lasted all day, I mean a full day on the charge.
Speaker 2:I was like, damn, that's awesome, that's the one great thing Like battery technology has gotten so much better. Because I remember I bought one of the Milwaukee like heated jackets, like when they first came out and was like you know, the same universal like tool, like smaller one, like 12 volt, like battery. But I was like in a weird awkward place and it was like stiff you could feel like the wire and I was like, nah, I got rid of it, like. And then, yeah, I've heard of a lot of other people between, like motorcycle riding and all these other outdoor activities, like how much more flexible, thinner and how much longer the batteries last. And so, yeah, they take advantage of it, you know, and it kind of reminds me it's like when you first used to go camping, like I don't care, I'll sleep on the ground, like you know. No, almost no mat, I'm fine with that. And as we get older, it's like do I really need to?
Speaker 1:though, yeah, it's creature comforts. Man, as you get older, like I know I'm not that old, honestly, but like even as I'm getting older, like stuff that I was doing when I was in a teen, to where I'm almost 30 now, it's like, okay, yeah, no, I'm not doing that, I want to be comfortable.
Speaker 2:Man, like screw that shit there's no reason to Exactly Like, why embrace?
Speaker 2:the suck when you could just be comfortable, you know especially if you're going out a lot and you use it like it's completely justified and there's no reason to make it more difficult or uncomfortable than it needs to be. And I mean you're in the water all day and like, if you're uncomfortable, you're not even you know, like you stop thinking quickly, even, you know, because you're so fixated on I can't feel my hands, I can't feel my toes, like, let me know, I'm just going to rush this run and like get out, you know, before I like freeze anymore. And yeah, versus, if you're comfortable, then you'll probably be a little more methodical or take your time or spend more time in the water, you know, and kind of, on that note, yeah, if I'm like day tripping, a lot more walking way type thing, I mean I guess we'll go on a boat too. But in the winter, like I always have an extra set of clothes, you know, or multiple layers.
Speaker 2:Like you said, it gets wet, like if I'm in a boat I got to drive back, I'm throwing like an extra jacket, sweatshirt type thing, extra gloves in there, you know, extra pair of socks, and just take that with me because, yeah, there's days like it doesn't really matter, like I've owned about every Gore-Tex jacket, which I do believe like proprietary, can be okay, but they break down faster like true Gore-Tex definitely lasts longer, but even those over time, just saturation is real, especially like with the hoods because, like I said again, I don't always like wearing them. I try to like zip or button it up as tight as can or, like you know, near around my neck of his downpour. But I know having that hood off, like you know, invites all that rain in and that moisture starts leaching through. But yeah, having another rain jacket that you can just shake that one off and like start fresh again, like midday, like when you do lunch in that, that's huge.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yeah, yeah, I have. Do you guys have stand fields? Do you know what that is? No, like I think it's marina wool. Yeah, it's marina wool, I'm pretty sure. But it's like a work sweater. Oh, okay, I like crew neck kind of style, but the crew neck is pretty wide so, like you know, comes down pretty low, which I actually kind of like because it gets you, keeps you warm, like that in one sweater, and then, if it's raining, my rain jacket and I'm dude.
Speaker 1:I thought he was about to say turtle neck, I will put underneath?
Speaker 4:I'll put, like my um Helly Hansen thermal shirt on long sleeve and then a short sleeve shirt and then definitely a stand field and a sweater. It doesn't even have to be a big sweater, just something. And then if I do get like a little bit cold and it's not raining, then I throw on the rain jacket and then I'm usually like pretty toasty and maybe, if it's super cold, with like a thicker sweater. But yeah, I've got it down pretty good, whereas, like, if I'm on the boat, I sometimes don't even need to put on an extra pair of socks. But if I'm waiting, that extra pair of socks definitely helps. But if your feet aren't wet all day, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 2:The other one, like I said, because I don't normally, if it's like mid level cold, like it's like because I don't like wearing gloves, I ended up picking up one of the like polar tech um, long sleeve hoodies and it's got like the thumb holes. First I was like whatever it's like, you know, just another gimmicky thing. I was like dude, it's legit, like it totally. It keeps like the top back of your hands warmer. Also, find like gives me a little traction because like part of the rod is being ripped across. That as well. There's just solid, wet hands all the time, but it's not like super thick or anything like that. I tailed a couple of fish using those, which was great because I was able to just kind of dip it in real quick, but it gave me like a little bit of traction. That's like some of that water when I get my hands. I was like I know my hands are freezing, I can barely feel anything as it is. So I'll take any little edge without, you know, not getting the mesh glove like people wear.
Speaker 1:I just can't do it, oh yeah, no, I can't do that, I cannot, I can't bring myself to do it at all. No, I got these neoprene. So for my trip, for my trip with Marty, it was showing on the last couple of days that it was going to be pretty cold and I was like, okay, well, it's not. It's not. It wasn't as cold as the trip before that he had had, but it was still pretty cold. So I was like, okay, well, I need to get myself some gloves that are a little bit heavier duty heavy, heavier duty and I'm going to be rowing a boat, so I mean my hands are going to be touching cold, wet oars all day. So I was like, okay, so I went in the shop and I got these neoprene gloves from them Dude, those things are awesome.
Speaker 1:They had ones. Yeah, dude, my hands were sweaty, like pouring sweat, and I'm already a sweaty dude in general, but like I literally took those gloves off I couldn't get them off fast enough because I mean my hands were just drenched in sweat. I was like, oh, my God, that's, that's like real winter steelhead gear right there. I was like I don't need that for 40, 50 degree weather, I need that for like sub 30s, you know, anything below 30.
Speaker 2:That's what I need those for Neoprene is deceiving, like how well it truly does insulate, especially if it's not submersed wet. Because I know like when I used to go duck hunting, like you know, it was like the neoprene waders and stuff, it was like super heavy, thick. I used to have like I drag like this little like looks like a sled, you know, because it goes across the marsh and stuff, and it'd be like two, three miles out and I get there. I'm like instantly like hold my waders down. I felt like this baked potato like totally just came out of the microwave. I'm like what the fuck? It's so hot. Yeah, it's crazy Like how warm like neoprene truly gets.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, I really didn't think it was going to be that drastic. I literally you know Casey, he was the other, he was the bagger and he's like, dude, you should wear gloves pretty much the entire time while you're rolling. I wore gloves all of 10 minutes that entire trip and I was like dude, I can't do it. And my hands were fine. I mean, my hands maybe got cold once, but it was like it wasn't that bad. So I was just like, okay, well, great investment for winter steelheading, for sure, but like, definitely not good for like even 40, 50 degree weather. It's just too hot, it's way too hot. I was dying.
Speaker 1:So but yeah, I think my basic setup for winter steelhead like or just cold weather, weather temps I do the double layer setup because I don't have a boat, unless I'm fishing with somebody that has a boat, I'm pretty much in the water all day. So you know I don't have that luxury. So I do the double socks. I rock ankle socks, doesn't matter what it is, I don't, I don't care, I just rock whatever kind of ankle socks I have, and I wear a wool socks, merino or just normal wool, so I rock those.
Speaker 1:And then, because I was in the military, I was issued cold weather gear, so we have what's called ninjas and waffles. Ninjas are like super sleek pajamas, but they're a base layer, is what they are. And then waffles are the next layer system that goes over your ninjas and it's a little bit warmer. It's almost like a, almost like a wool kind of and, oh man, dude, does that stuff get toasty. When you rock those two setups together, it's like, oh my God, I'm dying in these already. So that's my base layers, and then from there, like a flannel or whatever sweats, I don't care, it doesn't really matter to me on that kind of stuff Generally I can get away with just the ninjas and waffles as my bottoms, because if there are sweats over the top of those, I'm going to be dying before the end of the day, right?
Speaker 4:So you heard it from the man we just need to get some ninjas and waffles together. And all I was imagining that whole time was you just in that black suit like ninja.
Speaker 1:Well, it's like they're like skin tight, super sleek, almost kind of like under armor kind of stuff.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, super sleek and tight and dude. They're green, so of course it's army kind of stuff. You're like oh, I look like a ninja, but I'm an all green, not black Green ninja.
Speaker 4:Wait, they made it green, but they call it the ninja.
Speaker 1:They call them ninjas. Yeah, they call them Acquired society, right there, I know.
Speaker 2:They didn't think that one through.
Speaker 1:No, no, but the waffles man, the waffles set up. So the reason why they're called waffles is because of the way the pattern is, the way it's made, it looks like just waffle mesh. It's just like waffle layering on you. And damn, is it comfy as shit, dude. I mean that's seeing that.
Speaker 2:It's kind of funny. You said that because we were talking about like waiter, so I've owned both, like Patagonians and Sims. Yeah, hands down the Patagonia. It has a waffle kind of like pattern on the inside of the neoprene boots. Those boots, the booties, are definitely warmer than Sims, yeah, and I think it's true, you know, because it's trapping all those air and those little waffle patterns and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean, that's why thermals are built that way too.
Speaker 1:Yep, exactly. So that's essentially what the ninjas and waffles are. They're just a thermal layering system, but that's what I rock as my base layers. And then, like I said, if I have to I'll rock sweats, but normally I don't when I'm wearing that layering system. And then I rock a flannel and then it depends on how cold it is. Most of the time I'll rock just a sweatshirt, but if it's really cold I'll wear my fill some puffy. My fill some puffy is like. If it starts to get really cold, that thing keeps me pretty warm, nice. And then I'll go to a wet, a waiting jacket. You know, a wet waiting jacket. So that's kind of my layering system and kind of what I do for me personally.
Speaker 1:Obviously, that kind of stuff as far as the layering, the ninja's and waffles, military guys. But you can't get that stuff at like a military surplus store. So like you can hear me saying that and if you have a military surplus store near you, you can go and buy that shit that's so readily available. It's stupid. So you know, if you're looking for good layering systems, go buy yourself a set of ninjas and waffles Right here folks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really like that set up. It works well for me. As far as other essentials, I couldn't agree more with David on the whole submersible bag or just a waterproof bag in general, whether it's a road top or zip up like a fish pond Dude, those are just lifesavers. Lifesavers, I mean if you're carrying any kind of camera equipment or electronics or, like David said, food, like if you're wanting to have a sandwich. Try rocking a sandwich in a non waterproof bag. You're going to hate life, You're going to have a soggy sandwich and you're going to just hate yourself for not investing another hundred bucks into a nice bag. You know so it's. You're already dropping 100 bucks on a bag. Anyways, most people do. They're like, oh, I'm going to buy this hip pack that cost me 100 bucks. I'm like, why, when you can drop 200 or 150 and then get it either a roll top waterproof bag or a fully zip waterproof bag?
Speaker 4:I just want to let the Canadians know that's a two to $300 you're looking at, maybe exactly more. We got to hit the US down because it is a currency converter.
Speaker 2:I'm like oh yeah, is that a right now? I was talking about flights and I was like yeah, I was like 500, or like four to five. She's like Hmm, I was like she goes, that's cheap. And I was like did the conversion? Oh, it's like eight to 900.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so just cash out here.
Speaker 2:But, yeah like we said, it's not like super cold. It's so funny because, like you know, like stop and grab like coffee or something in the morning I was like I look like the homeless dude coming off the streets because I got like my wool socks and so I'll wear like Birkenstocks. One is like when I'm in the car, turn the heater on, like my feet thought faster when I'm done, but I look like that Florida dude with my socks out and they're like wearing the Birkenstocks. They were have, like you know, like some kind of like synthetic, like just fleecy pants or like jogging pants and like put it switched shirt and a beanie, like walking in the morning. It's like yeah sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's like you know, I got all this money in these crazy rods and I look like I'm the dude that should have like a coffee cup and you throw some coins in, you know you know, I think it's really funny during winter that that very first Nahalum trip I made yeah, I stopped at a convenience store on my way and I was like going out to the river first thing in the morning and I stopped to grab coffee. I must have looked like a homeless person. I came in looking like I was wearing PJs and a sweatshirt and a beanie, with these big ass cowboy boots on, and they're like what? They're like what the fuck is this shmuck doing? I'm going fishing, dude? And they're like okay, like weirdo. So it's so true, Some of the getups that you wear, or even after you get done, like fishing, like summer, and you're like shorts and like a tank top and you walk in with your like Chocos or whatever hey, dudes and stuff. And people are like dude, you're like so beyond casual right now.
Speaker 2:I'm like yeah, I was just oh yeah, when you're done after a trip or you go like, oh, let's go hang out the brewery, I was like, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, exactly so. Yeah, it's kind of funny Sometimes you can look pretty homeless or pretty, pretty ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Rainy like street clothes for the rest of the trip.
Speaker 1:Oh for sure you know it's so stupid, I'll dress all nice If I'm going like, say, I leave the day before I get a hotel room and I'll dress in like jeans and I sure everything like jacket, and then, like next morning, I look like a bum just dressed in like PJs. I look like I'm wearing super PJs and a sweatshirt beanie and I'm just like, yeah, I'm about to go hit the water hard. Here we go. I'm a surfer dude. Chaw dude.
Speaker 2:Kind of not. No, that would be like something like I never I've got multiples, you know, like a lot of people do, but you know just like a decent, like insulated mug you know is like a must in the winter. There's something about you know, having something warm. I even got like the food jar versions. You know like I'll preheat soup and that which those like they should be preheated. Like I almost go to almost boiling water and I throw it in there, Like while I'm heating up my soup, dump the water, then put the soup in. Like that usually adds like two, three hours to mine.
Speaker 1:Nice. You know what's funny? That people used to make fun of the Stanley thermoses. Yeah, all the time. Guess, what's now a trending fad is the every thermos. Oh my God, bro, I'm like. You know what. Those have been working for as long, long before you were born. Like those have been a thing and they are phenomenal. I don't understand why people stopped using them Like, yes, yetis are great and stuff, but they don't compare to a Stanley thermos, not even coffee.
Speaker 2:Mm. Hmm, yeah, not even close. I think it's like the thread pitch and all that Like there's like way more of a barrier so it doesn't leak out as much. As far as the temp, yeah, but the one I really like. You're talking about keeping your coffee like up in your waiters. Somebody has like the push button one or like your next trigger finger. My buddy had one like dude. I got to get one Like. Those actually last really long I like because they're skinny, kind of like a regular, like beer can with diameter, but dude, that's like the jam when you're fishing. It was like you have one rod. You don't have to mess with the lid up down If you let it go like instantly locks back up. I think it mines in my car, but yeah, it's like when you hold it it's yeah, that index finger is what releases it, so that one's like it's pretty, pretty awesome.
Speaker 1:Pretty clutch? Yeah, I would. I would say that's probably one of the most underrated pieces of equipment for winter steel. I didn't like a lot of people, like I said, and there's nothing wrong with Yeti. I like Yeti, I own a bunch of Yeti mugs and stuff. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Yeti fan as well. But, stanley, if you're talking about true stuff that actually keeps your stuff warm like the entire day or even into the next morning, stanley works.
Speaker 2:I mean, that is just what don't get as easily as like hydro flask or Yeti's.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Once they happen. Since game over, I got one drop.
Speaker 2:I'm like in the drive, like oh, there it goes. It always makes me wonder did I lose that whole vacuum seal now, Like did it actually puncture enough, or whatever?
Speaker 4:100%. Sorry to cut you off, austin, but does everyone remember those thermos with, like the glass inside or whatever it was? Yeah, that's before that's before me, you like throw your bag when you got home or like you know. I don't know how long they were around, but I just remember getting home dropping my bag and just being like, oh shit, I'd like put it, I'd wash it. You know what I mean. I'd wash it and fill it the next day, just to like avoid her hearing them like shatter.
Speaker 2:It is kind of funny how Stanley's kind of rebranded its style, you know like fit, like people. It's kind of made the revival but yeah, like the old lunchbox where, like you know, the Stanley would fit on top of the lunchbox. You know like the dome shape, like every, you know construction, like field worker, like that was like what everyone had and it's still the same technology. And then again, like Car Hards was like the working class blue color, you know kind of base layer. You know durable system and now everyone wants to wear it as like the trendy beanie and vest and shirts and gear. It's kind of funny how it's just kind of resurfaced and like now it's been like modernized for other people.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's super Fanny packs. If you you got a style that's unique to you and you like it, keep rocking it and one day you'll be the first person that started the new style.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying. I'm just saying if you're dude, I can already tell no dude. If you're dude and you're rocking a fanny pan, get out of here with that Get out of here I'm wearing in Mexico.
Speaker 4:I will be wearing the fanny pack with all my flies in it.
Speaker 1:I want to see a photo of you walking down.
Speaker 2:Standing out there, knowing nothing but you need to get, you need to get like the legit sombrero.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, like a big sombrero.
Speaker 4:I want like a sombrero while you're in Mexico.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it is. I didn't plan on any of this, like having like those pants and stuff.
Speaker 1:What the fuck? How do you have this shit?
Speaker 2:I don't say this sitting on the couch. You need to have like a legit.
Speaker 1:That's a sombrero, my friend, that's a sombrero. I like how you forget the 10 gallon cowboy hat dude, you need a sombrero.
Speaker 2:I actually almost thought about this on our last like road trip.
Speaker 4:Dude, that's sick Dude too good.
Speaker 2:It's still like one of my gigs. I was like, oh, like we should do like a spoof video, like getting you know the old, like theme parks they have like the huge foam cowboy hats. Oh yeah, Wearing one of those and getting like an ad hoc hook and having like the huge mass of fly up in there.
Speaker 1:Like a musky fly, like a big musky. That would be hilarious. That would be so fitting it ended up on a technical route.
Speaker 2:Low water trip Like seriously bro.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're just showing up and just like rocking clown shoes Totally Dude. That would be hysterical, oh my God.
Speaker 4:Dude, and you know, sombreros are really functional if you think about it.
Speaker 2:They literally no Like in totally like I had one of the fish pond big eddies. I mean those are like 65 bucks or 70 bucks and 75. I don't know 100 Canadians Exactly. One child deposit, please, yeah, first, on the layaway program.
Speaker 2:It's funny Like we have this like pretty OG like Mexican restaurant we go to like pick up burritos, when in buddy, mind, we do like burritos and beers and yeah, it's spicy, good. But they have kind of like the typical, like little Mexican tienda, like kind of store in the back and they got like maybe 10 different like sombrero versions to choose from and they're all like 10 to $15.
Speaker 1:That's so awesome.
Speaker 2:I know I buy. It was like dude, like I think I'm just going to replace that. They actually had one of my fish pond, like the next draft, like broke. I was like I'm just going to go pick up one of those for that price and they were in all last year and it's pretty rad.
Speaker 4:It's not really a winter thing, but in the right now fishing yeah, and you just had that in your like rain jacket and your waiters You're not getting.
Speaker 3:You know, I don't know, I don't know, I'm not sure you know.
Speaker 4:I think you'd be golden.
Speaker 1:Please, David, please get an epic photo of you holding a steelhead with a sombrero on.
Speaker 2:I'm totally bringing it on our next trip. I think I'm going to do a winter sombrero.
Speaker 1:Gortex sombrero. Oh my God.
Speaker 4:Just start like spraying it, keep spraying it. Yeah, that would be like a month. It's just got this like thick layer on it. You're like that's good, yeah, yeah, that would be pretty sweet though. Yeah, that would be hilarious. You would have a Brian O'Keefe beat. What's that?
Speaker 1:You'd have Brian O'Keefe beat for the craziest hat I know On a fishing trip.
Speaker 2:Get like the LED lights set up on the edge. Oh my God, Dude underglow. You're going to get like the tassels, like the old, like low riders.
Speaker 4:Oh my.
Speaker 2:God.
Speaker 4:Well, now I expect it actually, so I know I was like we got it Jokes on you. You should fully expect to see that sooner than later.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah this season is happening this winter steelhead trip.
Speaker 2:Yeah, commit, commit.
Speaker 1:Subrero Down Coral rain In the control.
Speaker 2:Now, David, Like you know, I still You're not going to have a soggy sandwich eating with a huge sombrero.
Speaker 1:Dude. No, yeah, You're eating like a king. You're like oh you fools, they're all cold and wet. No, I'm just dry under this bitch.
Speaker 4:Dude I. I'm a hundred percent, though, on the game of a good backpack. I got one fish pond side bag and then for the raft I have, like the fish pond cube rectangle, oh yeah, that thing, that's real.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and they're both just awesome. You know, coming home and all your stuff that's supposed to be dry, staying dry, and then, like you know where it's a bit moist, if you know you're opening your bag a lot. But yeah, when you put like a Tim Hortons I guess you guys don't have that You're, but I know what they are yeah, okay. So like, if you put your like little food that you got from like a um, fuck me, like a bagel or something, then you know, when it's soggy it's just like the worst. Oh, keep you going throughout the day. But when your food gets fucked with, you know, I had a friend recently as well. I was like, oh, I'm just going to get like one of those you know bags, and I was like, well, is it fully waterproof? No, well, yeah, then, don't like, just get the water proof, it'll be way happier in the end. Um, such a big thing to have when you're, especially in this kind of climate, constantly raining or whatever.
Speaker 1:But if you fall in the river too and your cell phone or wallets in there, it's all good yeah exactly and that's another reason why I really like those hip hacks or waterproof bags, you know is having a safe place to put your electronics when they're not out and about and being used, or even your wallet, because you know, some people carry important documents on and their wallet and stuff, or just important stuff, and it's like it's just nice to know and it's like a piece of mind knowing that it's in a safe place. You know, though, I like that aspect. It's like I toss it in there and then there's no worry. It's just like, unless I'm stupid enough to leave my bag open and then hop back in the water, watch everything float away, oh, man I would.
Speaker 1:I would be devastated and I'd hate life. So I would hate myself so much.
Speaker 2:I mean that piece alone, just the fact that they do float like if something pops out versus any other bag. You know, grab the net, at least retrieve it. Yeah, sure.
Speaker 4:Another thing I like was that I had I haven't I got a bigger version for the boat, but it's that fish pond garbage, that little garbage.
Speaker 4:I have those, yeah, and the peel pod yeah, and I like wrap the line of like my tip it when I'm done with it around my finger and I do this like weird twisty thing and then it like turns into a bow basically. Oh yeah, I just pop that in there. But even if you just wrap it around your fingers and kind of twist it, you can get it in those things pretty easily. But it made the bottom of my raft go from like messy all the time and like always having tippet hanging out or out of my waders just like gets everywhere in the end, but just having like a solid place you can put that. And I paired that up with like the backpack, the sling. So whenever I'd come around, the like garbage can was right there in my face basically, and like all my tools and everything I really do like the sling. But it does hurt your shoulder if you carry a lot.
Speaker 2:True, it's so easy to overload all that stuff. Very easy, yeah.
Speaker 4:You put a couple of reels and a couple. I know you guys don't your own nymph, but, like you know, lots of tungsten. I'll just say that, lots of tungsten. So you get weighed down, I got the lean.
Speaker 2:I'm a low ride, I'm like how do you have the lean when you?
Speaker 4:catch this, I got this and then, like you, get out there drinking all your water just to like lower the weight First, then you're thirsty After you threw the day.
Speaker 1:It was like first hour. He's like two thirds of the way through his water supply. He's like shit. Oh well, At least the bags liner.
Speaker 4:So now, like I really try to dumb down when I'm bringing out in general, like I want to pack light nowadays, both for just like, especially if I've made a decision on what I want to do, fishing wise, how I'm going to do it, the last I bring that could switch me to something else. Yeah, you know, helps me just be that more stubborn because I'm like, well, now I got to go as hard as I can with this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like in winter, when we start getting those foggy or like you know, it's just going to be dark more like dark in the morning, dark in the evening, like wait earlier. First I was like, eh, kind of gimmicky. But dude, I had like those Smith like with the yellow lenses, Like seriously, that was kind of game changer early in the morning, Dude, 100%. Yeah, that one is. You know it's a seasonal thing, but definitely Something I would say. If you're looking to add some lenses like that's, I would put that on the list for winter, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yellow lenses for winter conditions are more white, yeah, and I was actually talking well, we were talking about that. I was like, yeah, like I have an eight. You know I use my eight weights to hand rods in the winter and it's like, yeah, like they pretty much sit in the closet most of the time, unless I just want to go cast them or try some different lines. But you know it's what I use in the winter. So like, like, whether it's a closed system, glasses, whatever, like there's no reason not to have something specific to that either, and they should last longer if it's only a couple of months anyway.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and they're really good for driving with fog, totally, really good for driving with fog. I have an old pair of like aviators someone's that wrap around the ear. Oh, they're awesome, but yeah. I always rock those when it's like shitty weather out, even on the water, because when it's like murky out or like you know, it's just not, it's not like you're really trying to look in the water, so polarized, kind of goes out the door in a sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you can just cut that light system.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it makes it worth it. You can get the yellow polarized, obviously, but like, just pick up a cheap pair of yellow glasses. I've even had it with glasses like the DeWalt safety glasses. Oh yeah, totally the old ones, same thing. It's like it's just that tone, it brightens everything up. Then you take your sunglasses off and you're like, oh, it's nighttime.
Speaker 2:No, it's like I'm like on my car, like I got like this light bar. You know it's white and then I, which is great, and then, yeah, when it's foggy that's like 10 times worse. I can't see anything.
Speaker 2:But then I've got like a couple of different set of like my amber lights and it's like day and night difference, like driving in the snow, or when it's like foggy, which yeah, that's actually like been a big game piece, like adding that to my car for, like you know, because I do a lot of coastal stuff in the winter and it's always going to be foggy for the most part and like driving, unless it's just been like cold and no moisture, which usually means low water, but I would say like eight and nine times out of 10, it's usually foggy on the commute and that definitely helps. Otherwise I'm going like probably half the speed to get there. Yeah, agreed, see the turn to whatever.
Speaker 1:Here's a question for you guys If you're going to go winter steel adding, for example we just talked about all the gear that we would carry on us clothing and all that kind of stuff what about having for your vehicle? Now, a lot of people I find and including myself in it in the earlier years now I'm pretty well prepared for most things, but what do you guys find are essential things to have in your winter, like truck or vehicle bag for those winter steelhead trips you know, just to have in your vehicle?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I've been pretty set up. I've been adding, like you've seen, like I have like actually used like the rigid toolboxes I actually like them up, all the different toolboxes for like all my camping gear, like I have recovery year and stuff, you know. So I always carry jumper cables. I do have a portable air compressor which I bring just in case the biggest one I've actually found because we use a lot like have like toaster up chain and an axe Chain saw broke I need to get another one. But there's been some like we get winter storms and we take this one road and then she's like down trees. So most of them I could just like hook my toaster up and like pull logs out of the way or you're just not getting through and the detours like two hours if you go the other way. So that's been like a big one for me, like I've. Actually we're on the North umpwell, you know which is like major, like highway, and me, my buddy, we went to go fish like these way up a runs, but I think we did too. So it's like maybe 45 minutes under an hour came back and there's like a tree all the way across the highway and it was just like. So we're like dude, let's just get this move because other people are going to come. You know it's still pretty like semi foggy, the sun's up but not, you know it's still early, so we ended up pulling it Me. That's a big one.
Speaker 2:The one I'd like to actually add is a like a portable jump starter. That is something that's actually on my Amazon list. I haven't picked up yet because I do a lot of trips alone. It's like you know, cold weather just eats up anything battery related. You know that from cameras and that you get like less than half the time on, you know, so not always. You know a lot of places are remote, like I've gone where I don't even see anybody all day. So it's definitely a couple of times I was like you know, probably wasn't the smartest thing to do.
Speaker 2:I always carry like some leather gloves with me just for like, whether it's like change entire, like pulling this you know tree or debris out of the way, swinging the axe. I think it's just kind of a smart thing to have Just an extra layer as well, something like, you know, if your hands get cold. But I'm pretty like so I always got this dry bag in my car, whether it's summer or winter doesn't really matter where. I've got like sleeping bags, sleeping pad Like I just leave in my car because the dry bag is easy to grab, like one thing. So that way, if anything does happen like I don't know, it's become part of my system and, granted, it's not like everybody's. Just, I spent so much time in my car sleeping like a homeless person, looking like homeless person, with sweatpants on, you know, going to get coffee. So these are the things I've kind of add, but what I found the whole box system. I think they're in one of my cars.
Speaker 2:The box system has kind of been the changer, because I used to kind of just like have these individual things like oh, put in the shed or the garage or whatever type of thing and then I forget stuff, versus having them in these like toolboxes where you just slide it in and out yeah, that looks good.
Speaker 2:Has like really been the difference of like taking something or not taking something? Nice, the other one, I do like actually have like one of those like rechargeable shop lights which Austin saw like when we were setting up camp and like cooking because it's so bright, like that thing was incredible and they're like they're not even super expensive, but yeah, they put a ton of light up. I found, like, because it's usually dark when I'm getting set up, like to rig up my rods in the dark, I've had friends where it's semi dark and like they've broken rod tips because they didn't see the tree above or, you know, it gets leaned up in a door and they go pull and it's cold, like things just break way easier too. I've noticed that, you know, they just become a little rigid. So, yeah, just having like more light and I always have a headlamp and like my dry bag, like those are definitely things like I try to bring with me.
Speaker 1:Oh smart, All good, All good stuff. I think that you're, I've go ahead.
Speaker 4:Andrew, I just really liked hearing about the big lamp. I think like a lot of construction tool stuff, especially even on the batteries these days, are so good. Yeah, you can cross it over to like camping and stuff very well. I mean, we even had a like one of those Makita little chainsaws. See, exactly you can. Just you know, maybe not, they're torquey. I actually want one so I don't have to carry fuel in the back of my car.
Speaker 4:But I take a lot of my stuff out. So I've been using like bins, not the toolboxes per, say, but like those big. I don't know, I would assume they're pretty traditional. It's at Home Depot yeah, totally, with the yellow lids that fold and, yeah, interconnect in the middle man. That's my waiters go in there, my boots All right, I put my boots in there and my waiters all rolled up and then my backpack and like everything else, my extra coffee, like everything goes in that I bring that out and then I do have one for, like if I'm doing a little more extensive stuff, then I have a better. You know, backup clothes, whatever I put in there.
Speaker 4:But the jumper box or battery, that's a super handy thing. I don't have one Same thing, it's on the list, but my buddy had one and whenever the like any vehicle dies, just boom like big. It works Like our work truck he uses it for when we're out in the bush all the time and the battery like it keeps going. If you get a good one, that seems like the battery I have, like a little one that's, you know, doesn't have the battery capacity to last like a crazy amount of time. Even pumping a tire, it like dies fast but Got it. Yeah For jumping. It's just one, you know, or I guess if it's super dead you have to run it for a bit. But yeah, worth having.
Speaker 2:But it's still better than yeah, like I got to walk like 10 miles out to hopefully find somebody, 100% yeah 100%.
Speaker 4:But then that falls back to like things that are worth it to buy when they're seem expensive. It's like that money's going to get spent anyways. Maybe save up for it Exactly, but then it's justified. It'll save your ass one day. And then it'll be like wow, I was so happy I spent that $300 or whatever amount.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just like things that I multi-first, like this of those toolboxes, that I use them because they're a little bit more rigid, so like I pull them out because it has like like the big box has like all my camping gear, like our cook system, so I got my stove, pot, pan, miscellaneous things like that, and then like smaller one has like all my two-way radios, fire starters, lights, different types of things, but I can use those like a extra chair or something like that, and it's because they have like the waterproof gaskets on them so I can just leave them out at camp while I'm out there and stuff like that. Yeah, I can do that, not about it.
Speaker 4:That's a good point.
Speaker 2:And then they stack on top of each other, which I find so when I'm driving like I don't have stuff, like flying all over the place or like hitting rods that they're leaning inside the car.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that is a good point, having like something that can stay dry. I think I have to go into your vehicle, but those big fog lights or whatever, those are handy as well. Yeah, carry a whistle. You got to carry a whistle, right.
Speaker 2:All right. So that's kind of like my system. So these are actually like attached. You can untouch, break them off, sure. But I like this. You know, everything's like compartmentalized, so it's got like dividers. You know like if I got fire starters, two-way radios, extra batteries and stuff, but it's got the gaskets in there. So that's the system that I've been using, because it's pretty small. Everything matches up Kind of works for me. So you know, everyone can find their own thing. I've got some of the other like play-no-boxes and stuff, but I found that this one's just really nice because it's a little more herbal. And I like all the different like dividers and compartments.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we bought those at work. They're not cheap, but we put them through the ringer and they're just.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I bought those actually last year's round the holidays and they were like half off Nice, so I think I spent like 75 bucks on the house. They have like the little Just like basket tote thing that even locks in on it, so I use that like for wet boots and stuff like that, and yeah, I think I spent like 75 bucks for like four different pieces or something like that 100 bucks, something like that. So, yeah, again, buy once, cry once.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's what it comes down to. Honestly, when it comes to like, people are like, oh, what should I buy? And then they like they hear what you say, that you buy and they're like, well, is there a cheaper route? It's like, no, well, you can go a cheaper route. I guess what chances are? It's not going to last as long, it's not going to work as well, yeah, and you're going to end up buying the second time. So it's like buy once, cry once, kind of deal. And you know that's how I feel about clothing. I like, when it comes to my clothing, like cold weather clothing, I buy a lot of Philsen stuff. Yeah, Philsen is stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean their stuff is just it's built for rugged, cold environments. I mean, a lot of other stuff is based out of Alaska, so, as we all know, alaska is not the most forgiving place.
Speaker 2:No, that's why there's so few people that stay there. Yeah, for that to work.
Speaker 4:But then one morning and you see the mountains and a grizzly and the eagle fly over and like ah, that's why I'm in Alaska.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. So that's like a big reason for me, like last year. So like these boxes, some of like the equipment I've been buying, was because I like I'll do some of these winter trips and a lot of times like I'll camp and I'll just sleep out of my car, because I'm just like you know, it's easy that way, it's easy to stay dry in that.
Speaker 2:But like I used to take my backpacking like super light, small, like air mattress, but that cold, even in a car, comes like right on through and it's like it doesn't really matter like the rating of your sleeping bag, like it drops really fast, yeah. And so this last year when I'm cargamping I'm not I don't need a backpack. I bought like this it's self inflated but you can adjust the air, but it's like four inches of foam. Do that thing is one. It's incredibly comfortable but it has like way more insulation value.
Speaker 2:And so I was on the shoots like two three weeks ago my friend came down from Washington and the first night it was 18 degrees Fahrenheit and then 20 the next night and I can tell you I was warmer those two nights than I would have been the previous year like when it was like 30, 35 at night.
Speaker 2:So like that alone, that mattress like added like a good 15 degrees of like comfort and I can tell you I sleep really hard on that thing, compared of like even if your car is like not perfectly flat because it's so much insulation in there, it kind of levels everything out. It's been a pretty. That was a good purchase this year and that was specifically bought for winter but I've been using even the summer. It's really made like camping out in the car. It's like I'm not feasible and I'm not realizing how cold it was that night. I'm like I'm really not sweating any of my other like winter trips because that's, you know, reasonably cold, especially when it comes to cold. So like we don't usually see those temps on the coast range, like we see them more in the mountain range.
Speaker 1:Agreed, agreed, or even over here, that those super cold temps come here. But yeah, not too too much on the coast.
Speaker 4:Definitely have a few of those like thick foams, and I have one that's like the exact size of the back of my truck. Yeah, nice. So I have like a little platform. Oh, cool, nice. It was actually my old. From my own John boat I built a platform for it, but we really did not think of the weight, so I rarely use it. I build things really strong. Yeah, like this thing could have taken out, you know, a train if it hit it.
Speaker 2:It's like the one piece still standing after everything else.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so that, but that I lay down and it goes in between my wheel wells and then Chris just goes over the wheel wells. So there's like some parts that are a little dippy on the very edges. But me and the lady have slept on it A few times, like going camping or whatever, and yeah, maybe two people. It's a little parent, but when I'm by myself, yeah, it's pretty serious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, You're awesome.
Speaker 4:What Sure Dude I'm a married man, do what I want. Now that I'm married, I don't do what I want, but I was going to say no, you don't.
Speaker 4:You're married. No, I don't. Sometimes I do, but no, I don't. Yeah, that's funny, but no, that that for me. And then I like blankets now Like I'll use my sleeping bag underneath and then like two blankets on top, but I'll have my sleeping bag open and so if it does end up getting too cold, but something about blankets and camping to me is just like so authentic. Yeah, and I'm just like having two big blankets, like somewhat heavy ones, and I'm just like laying there. I sleep so well in the back of my truck, like out camping in general, but with that foamy like you hit the bed and I'm someone that usually has a hard time falling asleep and I like I wake up the next morning like that's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like better than when. I'm home, yeah.
Speaker 1:I. So on that recent trip I went with Marty where I worked for him. So I have my sleeping bag and in my sleeping bag I like this little fuzzy blanket that I have, and I busted that out the first night I got a flack of shit for it. They're like what the fuck? They're like you have a fuzzy blanket tucked in your sleeping bag and I'm like, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I may look, man, but I don't even care, People make fun of certain things until they actually use it. Like it's funny, they used to have like the little air pillows and stuff you know like, and now I got like at least like the camping pillows and stuff. I got like two of them. I was just like you know, having a real pillow and having some real insulation. I wish I'd probably done this a long time ago, rather than just kind of tough it out.
Speaker 1:Yep, I agree, I love having my little blanket. I, like he said, I had to have my sleeping bag open for the most part. I just have my blanket laying over the top of me. Oh my God, that was so awesome. I woke up every morning I was like, oh yeah, that was great, yeah.
Speaker 2:I know I don't like being restricted, especially if I'm car cam, Like I'm not. It's not like I'm carrying stuff in my bag you know my backpack so it's like I don't mind bringing bigger, heavier, nicer items, and so I actually have a double person sleeping bag, so it's like kind of like a blanket it can zip on both sides down, yeah, and that's pretty darn nice. I'll just a lot of times in the summer I'll just like use as a blanket or lay on top of it, Cause it's like super thick anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you can see what you roll like one coat corner over a leg and you're like, yeah, that's warm enough yeah.
Speaker 2:If you get cold, you can kind of double it over.
Speaker 4:I'm about the like sleeping bag open and then sweat pants, yeah, and then that stand field. If I put that stand field on with a t-shirt, fucking golden.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you just fucking winning.
Speaker 4:I don't like to be warm when I'm sleeping, but right once I'm asleep I have to be warm as shit. So when you're like in a cold environment because by the time you fall asleep you're probably just starting to warm up, yeah, you know, and you're like, hmm, finally cozy, but yeah, not having like having a heavier layer down below and a lighter layer up above when I'm in, like that kind of things. If your feet are warm, your breast, the body has a good way of warming back up. Totally agree. No one wants to wake up and sweating because they're going to take off your sweaters or you know a bunch of things. Yeah, and then try to go back to sleep and like, yeah, maybe you'll be fine, but if you're like actually sweating, it's not going to be fun, it'll be cool.
Speaker 1:No, it's actually one of the things they teach you in the military. So one of the very first things I learned at basic was like how to use a sleeping bag properly. They literally want you to dress down to your skivvies. They're like boxers. Only when you sleep in a sleeping bag Like I, was like wait, what is going to be a bitch that has cold. And no lie, when you wake up in the morning you actually wake up warmer than if you were wearing clothes, because if you sleep in clothes, chances are you end up sweating in them, and then that cold you come out and then that cold hits your sweaty clothing and it's just, it's miserable, Absolutely miserable. So nine times I attend now I sleep in just plain boxers. I'm just like I wake up the next morning and I'll put my clothes down at like the very end of my sleeping bag.
Speaker 1:That way they stay warm, yeah, but like I, I can't wear clothing when I sleep in a sleeping bag anymore. That's just not a thing for me. I'm like boxers, is it? I'm like that's it. I wear sweatpants and I'm like drenched. The next morning and I wake up and I'm like, oh my God, that was so stupid.
Speaker 2:That's like I'm just going to like sleep another hour and let it like come back up to temperature.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. So yeah, it's a. It's interesting how that stuff works. You know, a lot of people don't even know that, like they sweat so much even when you sleep. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Moisture regulation is like a big one.
Speaker 4:Another thing is I like to keep my feet like no socks on my feet with the sweatpants and then if I do get hot and that's where the blankets, nice, because I can still like kind of stick my feet to the edge, you know the, the danger zone, yeah, something could even Life on the edge. You know a little bear nip. Those aren't bad.
Speaker 1:But yeah, a little bit of frostbite on the toe, yeah.
Speaker 4:It's a little developed at this point. I find that when I am really cold and I got a lot of layers on and I'm still cold, I'll do the unthinkable. I will take down, like almost all the layers and go back to like the original starter layers. Yeah, you know, hopefully not like a t-shirt level, like assuming I have two sweaters on and like my stand field. I'll just go back to my stand field for a bit and like let my body like cool down more and then put back on a sweater and then you'll be warm. But like it's weird when you get like too many layers and you get constricted so you don't really and then that's a big thing. But I like my clothes usually a little oversized. I don't like it Like super tight fitting.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I got a dad bod, so tight clothes don't like work well for me anymore. It doesn't show off my physique that greatly, yeah, so this is a dating about a dad bod here. Just saying, you know, I like having a little bit looser bottom shirts and then it's like all top tight up around my arms and the shoulders. I'm like, yeah, see, now I look buff without showing off my beer belly yeah.
Speaker 4:I love that. You said that. That really makes me happy and I think that that's awesome. You know yourself, right, you don't know yourself. I really like those. What is it? Why am I blanking car heart t-shirts? Those t-shirts are pretty money and they're like. I buy nice ones or like ones to wear in like nice occasions are great material and when they do start to fade or get to a point where they're not so nice, they become my work shirts.
Speaker 4:So, I get for the price of one. I'm getting somewhat two. I just ones on a waiting list. You know, it's like once a year I buy like five, six shirts and then you know, every year I get rid of like the four worst ones that are out of the batch.
Speaker 4:But in rotation, yeah where you look at so many dryer holes in this thing it looks like I've been shot by a buckshot. Yeah, bird shot, sorry, just like straight all over. Yeah, the quality line, quality stuff like we've talked about quality materials for tying flies. You know, spending that extra little bit in the long run generally saves you. It's even like getting work done on your house.
Speaker 4:You know, like a family member, like we have this one lady that got someone from her family to put up a getter and he put like a bunch of 10 foot getters and so it obviously leaked everywhere like every scene, and so we redid it but she still ended up paying like $650 for the one run of gutter and then had to pay us another like $700 to come do it professionally. So like that small amount that she saved cost her basically twice. Yeah, you know, we felt that we did her some extra little things to help prevent stuff. But yeah, it's when you got something in front of you. Like you know, especially fly tying materials, if you could have like literally 10 good feathers in this like big bundle, or you could buy like this one pack with 20 feathers that are like mint, every single feather you will be able to use, whereas that other one. You'll have stacks and stacks of materials eventually that are like unusable.
Speaker 1:Yep, I find, like you know, airline for example, they are like they're a fly tying company, material company. That's just like sometimes the stuff is okay, but a lot of time it's like barely usable. I don't even buy their stuff anymore because nine times out of 10, two thirds of the package just goes straight into the garbage. I'm just like, yeah, this was not even usable.
Speaker 4:Like, don't get me wrong if you're really not worrying about, like, how your flies look per se and you're more about just like mass and like you know, if you tie a lot of Wally Buggers and you buy a cheaper bag of Meribu, you'll be fine, yeah. But if you're planning on doing a bunch of space flies or like ho-woo flies or whatever, yeah. Getting that select pack when it says select, that's a good stuff right there.
Speaker 2:Yep, it's like open a bag and slide it off the table into there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I see, oh, it's funny. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:It's just like the more we use stuff, the more you appreciate it. And then it's one of those things like people wonder, like you're saying you know they're buying discount, lower grade materials and I don't understand, like why my fly doesn't look like the one I saw in this you know article or somebody else tied. And not always is it just technique. It's like the materials just don't want to lay, you know, correctly, or mirror-imaged or whatever.
Speaker 4:Like mallard flanks, trying to bring two of those up in a shit pack where there's like 500 feathers Like super curled over.
Speaker 1:Bro, don't even get me started.
Speaker 4:And then, like I finally bought a select pack and that's close to the time, actually, where, like buying select became a thing for me, because I did it for the mallard flank and I just had like a pack of I think there's like seven or 10 of both sides of the flank, oh nice, so it was just a huge thing. But the amount of bags of meriboo I have you know is disgusting and like in a bag, a big bag of meriboo bags is what I got.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we invest to like get rid of the frustration and the extra time that sometimes we don't really have. You know, you got a day trip, a half day trip, a weekend and or maybe once a month, and why take away from that? You know, if you just buy quality things that aren't going to like make or break your trip or make you want to leave or shorten the amount of time you want to spend on the water. So, yeah, I know, and I get it Like not everything's going to be, you know, financially feasible, but, like I said, like I was buying little things by the season, you know, and it's like buy some summer stuff. You know, even now, you know, and you have a little extra, buy the one item, make it a goal.
Speaker 4:That's actually like a good point. Even like you know you just said, we buy things seasonally, so every year we get like a little more upgraded, you know, more prepared for the situations, and you first get into fly fishing, it's definitely like overwhelmingly expensive If you're trying to get all those like name brand top of the line, like it's going, it's not going to be cheap. But you know, if you find someone that knows what they like, what they're doing, and you can get like the essentials from them and then the next season when you actually can cast a rod, then you'll get that next piece of whatever that's going to make your. You know, for the first two, three years you probably don't even need a net. Just hold on for a minute.
Speaker 4:You know what I'm saying. Calm down. You don't need this $300 net right away. Go buy a $20 net, $30 rubber net from Canadian Tire or something and just manage for a bit. But if I could have told myself that I would still, by this point, have everything I have, but I would have done it more strategically. Less on the credit card.
Speaker 1:Yes, I would have had less single hand rods and a lot more two handers.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's the thing too is like, especially on the island and I guess you guys experienced this as well Like if you get your friend until, let's say, winter steelheading, he's, you know, finally learning the swings, finally starting to cast, he's finally starting to like maybe get a sniff once in a while, or something, or like, you know, maybe he had one tug and then he's like that's it, I'm buying like all this gear.
Speaker 4:And then it's like winter's over, yeah, you know. And then so now you're on to dry flies and whatnot and and nymphs and whatever you're doing, and so you know someone can buy all the stuff and that season be over. So it's like, if I can, I usually will lend my holy, oh, lend my friend, like some, my like rod, an extra rod or something, let him use that. And then if they really like it be like okay, you know, these are your options for what's coming up. So if you buy this, you're kind of not ready for that. So this is your all around option, you know, because buying three, four rods with reels and lines, that's some feasible for most people.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So like definitely looking into what you're doing and making sure you're buying it either at a beginning of a season or like you're down to just go cast, you know, in a park or at a river when you're not actually fishing, because that's like a big thing. When I started I did buy everything I was paving at that time. Just got back from commercial fishing, started buying like a lot of stuff and then when paving and bought disgusting amount of stuff. But now I don't really use a lot of my things. Yeah, you know, especially rod wise. I think, yeah, assisted myself better. Make sure you're buying from like a good place. Yeah, like if the people are welcoming and homie, you know they're probably going to sell you the right thing for what you're looking for. But having a bit of a game plan on what you're purchasing, it's a huge thing. Like if you really had to dump it down, it would obviously be waiters, boots, a really good fricking backpack. But if you can't afford that, then just have a wet sandwich for a year. Then then type.
Speaker 2:You got a double bag, getting them thrown in your regular bag.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you'll be thrown in a few ziploc bags and you'll be okay. Yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe, but the gear wise, like the line. If you're just buying your first line or getting into a new style of fishing, look at the like what is the best line and if it is a little bit more expensive there's a good reason, like that's probably you know, assuming it's a line that someone beginner couldn't actually work with. Yeah, yeah. You buy a long belly line as your first line for fly fishing and got no one to teach you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're gonna be. You're gonna be hating life real hard. Even with YouTube, you'd still be hating life 54 foot head and you're like, yeah, I got this. No, no, you're gonna be struggling or whatever.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I know, we're not really talking about. You know single hands and stuff, but that infinity line for a single hand is so good.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, so good. It's a phenomenal all around line, like if there's any line that I could have other than the an address from SA, I would have the infinity. And the an address is not the perfect line for like dry flies and stuff like that Does not do that stuff. But the infinity line does all of it really well. Maybe not streamers super, super well, but it can do pretty much everything super well.
Speaker 4:I was tossing streamers for cutties. My four weight it's a 10 foot, so like you go up a foot you can add a line weight up. It still seems to be pretty good. So I now always do that and so it was a five weight line. On my four weight it's the carbon XL, which I started using it for Euro when I first got it, but then it became my like drive, my favorite dry fly rod.
Speaker 2:It's a four weight, nine foot carbon XL. Yeah, they're pretty fun.
Speaker 4:It is and it's solid. But that paired up with the, with the infinity line, and I was tossing streamers, mind you, not massive ones just for cutties. I'm sure I could have tossed bigger ones if I really wanted, but it and then you switch to a dry fly and it's just the delicate little layout. That's awesome and I got the. How do you guys feel about textured lines? I know of spay casting doesn't really have texture.
Speaker 2:I've used quite a few like the older essay, like what is it?
Speaker 2:The shark wave, like MPX line, yeah, mpx, yeah, I actually liked it for like low light, especially because I could hear the line and I can like help, like with my double haul, like, especially if you're kind of new into it, it just kind of gives you an additional feedback Like I don't really need now, but sometimes like I like it because, like, like I said, it was low light, like stripping in, like I know where I'm at, yeah, and I did kind of like that feature and I just know how it loads as soon as I hear it, like I know like the power level of my stroke, distance and all that. So it's kind of nice and that that gives you that feedback and how to adjust from there. So I definitely think it's useful, especially for new people that are looking for something that yeah, to like kind of help refine some of their casting for finding that consistency. I think it's kind of good Long term Is it something you don't need it, but I don't think it's a negative by any means.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that goes back to if it's only like $10, $20 more, maybe $30 more for talking, it's definitely. I like the textured lines for that reason as well. Like at night, you just know, yeah, when you're fishing and you see a fish rise and are you doing dry fly and you see a fish rise or your streamer fishing and you see something moving or a spot, you just have to hit right away, like you just and you know that distance when you hear it too.
Speaker 4:You do and it's nice. It's like it's not a real sound, but it's still like a hissing sound. You know, it's one of those things that, like before I used it I would have never thought it was worth it, but then once I used it I was like, yeah, I like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the first doing that whole audible idea, yeah, and like I'll throw a lot of the real gold elites and so they have the three colors, so it lets me know my range.
Speaker 2:And so here, like we don't fish, all you know, and there's not many places we can fish at night, so it's not as, like mine's more of a low light thing.
Speaker 2:But I would say like in general, like when I went to the gold, to the gold elite, like the gold just is like solid straw color from Rio, and then having that tricolor, like I knew like what was like my pickup lay down If I just want to roll cast, like I knew, like what color of my zone, like I knew what kind of distance it was, so that was pretty slick and yeah, so I actually thought it was a huge bonus kind of getting that color and you know, if you practice it, like you just know those zones and like I got people like how do you know, like how much you got a pull or whatever else, like it's because if you practice with it, like you know exactly what kind of range you're going to actually get out of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so that's a little, that's a good little bonus because, like I always tell people and you know you start with single hand, like most rods, like flex at 30 feet, you know, and but most people are terrible with like guessing distances, like we even know in construction. Like you get homeoters, like I think it's like a hundred feet, it's more like 62 feet.
Speaker 4:Or it's, I think it's like 60 feet, that's like a plus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially when they're paying. When they're paying for something, yeah, exactly Whatever works in their favor.
Speaker 1:For me personally, the texture lines. They're great idea. I've never to me personally. I don't. I don't use them a whole lot for me. I don't see the point in paying another 10, 20 bucks for the textured when I get the same performance out of the normal like amplitudes. Yeah, you know, but that's just me, I, I don't know. I think I think they're a great idea, but I also just don't like the sound of them going through my guides. I actually really I don't like how noisy it is. I'm like, oh my God, that's just obnoxious.
Speaker 2:That's how I feel, and I have people on both fences whether it's like a drag reel, that can be loud or quiet. But then I have people like absolutely despise any click Paul reel because they're like way too loud.
Speaker 4:And I'm like you know what, I'm honestly a quiet reel kind of guy myself. That's not what friend is. Yep, I do like I don't like it when it clicks when you're reeling, yeah, which normally it doesn't, but I have heard ones that do, and I like saltwater. I've heard them like that. So that's something I don't like. But also like when I was sitting on a boat on a lake doing chronomids, someone would roll up with an Islander reel Right and then, as they rip off line and I'm just like sitting there and it's like all peaceful and then I like hear that and I'm like looking over breaking my neck seeing if he's got a fish and I'm like, no, just pulling out line. So, yeah, quiet reels for me. But if I got, there was like one click in Paul that was like called the Duchess.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, and that thing I wanted super bad.
Speaker 1:The Duchess is a cool reel man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the actual reels themselves when they have like cherry or like sometimes some older ones have like sea verwood or something. Yeah, Just like the mixture of like gold, silver, like the porting it's. Yeah, it's a pretty awesome piece of like almost like jewelry I thought I would have put up with it 100% would have been like.
Speaker 4:But it's also like for me, the click in Paul is the like old school fashion where you like are using your hand to slow down fish and stuff. Yeah, that's like I don't know. I love putting my drag low and like playing the fish with my hand. Yeah, just as like. I feel like when you get a fish running right off the bat and you've like timed it with, when you kind of drop your rod to like you know, try to pull, yeah, exactly, and then when he starts to spaz out and then like starts running, you got pressure on it, but as he's running, you can start to apply more. And that's like how I've always fought bigger fish, mark, because it's the same thing Like if you're running and someone had a line attached to you and then they just held it from one spot the whole time, never moved it and never applied more pressure or anything.
Speaker 4:It would be easier than if, as they, you started running and they just started applying more and more and more pressure. It's going to slow you down real quick. That was like a big thing for, like spring salmon fishing was like putting the boots to them like you would, with breaks as you're rolling up to a light, you know, just smooth and steady. It's like have it there but like not be just right on them. Yeah, yeah, I found that paired with like right at the end, when they stopped running, turn them right away. Yeah, move them over, even just like change that angle slightly, and that, to me, is like another big thing. So if you've got a fish that actually stayed on for more than 1.3 seconds this is what you do they only stayed on for 1.3 seconds. I'm sorry and I feel your pain.
Speaker 2:No, that should not be a right. I mean because it was totally that one I picked up this summer. It was like it just wouldn't move and that was literally the only thing Like I felt any like little movement in it. I was like flipping the rod the opposite direction just to get the head to do something different, and then I can like gain a little bit. Yeah, I think like moving that head is really like kind of key with the salmon.
Speaker 4:Yeah, 100%. Like if they're like right up in front of you like parallel and they're just holding those big guys and gross.
Speaker 2:But you know, they're just. They play the standoff game.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's where people are like, oh, I fought that fish for 20, 30 minutes. It was like that fish was resting, yeah, that's what was going on. It was resting and then like finally it would try to move somewhere and be like, oh yeah, I'm still hooked. And yeah, and changing that the angle, that's like I always tell people this is why it's called angling, it's because you're trying to pick the best angle to. You know, keep the hook set and like, stop that fish into the bucket, into your net. So it is pretty good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, kind of circle back one thing actually, back to the textured line. That's the one thing like, especially with lakes I find this more true Just cause the lines get dirty faster. That's the only thing with those texture lines, like they start sinking if people are not really good about maintenance on it. Yeah, yeah, agree.
Speaker 4:And the line issue is just a maintenance issue to some of the Even if it's all a little bit of water and it's like that's all it takes. Yeah, and just clean your line. I don't do that half as often as I should, but every once in a while I'll hit like three or four of my most common lines to use.
Speaker 2:I think that, yeah, it was good this year. But yeah, I'm usually like fairly adamant and just cause it's like I hate watching that tip start sinking. I was like it's a float, I've got a small drive fly and like that little tip section is already like subsurface. Yeah, and it changes the presentation a little bit.
Speaker 4:It just becomes my intermediate line.
Speaker 2:Exactly Like it's for the chop yeah it's for the chop, yeah.
Speaker 4:What running lines are you guys using? I think the. I can't remember the last stuff that I bought, but prior to that it was something wolf Wolf, white, royal Wolf, yeah, and it was just like. It was really nice. I know, do you use mono?
Speaker 2:That's exclusively pretty much what I use. Like I have a few that are like have like one of the real metered lines which I was given to check out and I brought it up like why I think it's it has some good things. But there's one thing I really don't like about it which I'll get into. But yeah, mono is probably my number one thing. To me they're easy, like you. Just people talk about memories Like I don't know like you cast even for a little bit of straightens itself out, like you can do it like that, like I set all my own knots.
Speaker 2:I think that's really important to kind of learn, because you can re-rig your own stuff and you don't have to like throw it away if, like the tip starts wearing out. I mean, heck, a spool should last you years, multiple seasons, because you can keep stripping like a couple of feet off, clip it If it starts getting worn out, if it's been wrapped onto rocks or tree or whatever and gets abraded. So I like the way mono shoots Like even an ice, like I had never really have issues with mono compared to like coated lines, like ice on your guides or ice on your lines Both.
Speaker 2:Like even if it's ice on the mono, cause it's so thin, like even when you flex it, you'll just watch that ice kind of break off. Yep, I don't. I think as a you know, it's a petroleum kind of base, a lot of it that. Yeah, I think the freezing point is not as low as like some of the other coatings and stuff. So, yeah, stuff that doesn't stick to it as much as like coating. So I'm not a hundred percent sure with like essays. I know a lot of people like that, but the one I have the most experience with, like Rio, which is all the meter running line, so it's every 15 foot it's got a color marker which I do kind of like. For a lot of people, if you really want to know, like what you're casting, it's fairly thin. So I like the way it manages. It doesn't seem to not up too much.
Speaker 2:My biggest, biggest issue, which makes me worry because I know like a lot of Rio recently have had some coating issues cracking. So the core on the meter running line is 20 pounds and most people when they get to nagellous fish unless it's, like you know, like trout spay, I don't have an issue with it, but most of your nagellous fish. People have 30 pound backing so you get into a big fish that meter running line will actually break before your backing does and you'll lose your head and everything. And to me like it's. I told them like this is a trout. I mean, cause all your trout. Smaller single hand, you know anything. That's pretty much like under six weight, six weight and under even seven weight and under usually eight changes. Sometimes some eights are still 20, but yeah, to me 20 pound is kind of. I mean not that you have trout necessarily that big, but to me it's just the connection, the same reason, like we don't have you know like an eight pound, like tapered leader, you know like three X leader and then put like 15 pound on the front Like you're going to lose your stuff. You know in between that's lighter, and so for me that was the always the biggest issue and I asked them to put a meter running line with a 30 pound four. I didn't see why that would be such an issue, but it might just be the diameter or whatever that have the machine set up.
Speaker 2:But to me that's always made me a little leery and I did not trust it, because I've seen stuff in that lighter level break and with that, like I said, once it cracks, I mean it's not even get some water in the core, which is usually just, like you know, some kind of like nylon synthetic material. And to me, like that's just a weak point and I'm not willing to risk. You know your fly, you know, especially if you're running like sink tips or something like that. You know which most people are running like gadgets and a sink tip it's like just you can might as well just say buy it a hundred bucks. You know US. And for me, like that running line for 50 bucks, like it now costs you $150, you know. So to me it's always been kind of a bad investment piece. And then I said those loops break, they're not as easy to weld, so you got kind of this weird knot anyway, so you get rid of that whole smooth junction. So for me mono has always been kind of the way to go. I can change the loop size the way I want. Like I said, something doesn't feel right. It got a kink and it's driving me nuts because it's a hundred. Most people are never gonna like manage a hundred feet. It's almost impossible to do anyway. Like I mean you know anything more than 30. So to me you almost get like three reels, you know, or three spools, because you know and I and I'll do that, like in a season I'll take off like 15 feet, clip it and redo it. So I got something's a little bit fresher. So for me it's always been about fixing in the field and something's gonna last and that running line.
Speaker 2:Most of mine, like I, you know, everyone's got their own but by the OPST abuse, the Rio. I think the OPST lays a little bit flatter in my knots. The way I cinch or at least set my knots. I always feel that the Rio for the same weight category. So like the Rio 35 and the OPST 40 pound, the OPST 40 pounds knots lay flatter than a Rio 35. And the 35 can kink up a little bit more.
Speaker 2:I think it's a great like trout spay to like six weight two hand rod. But honestly like that OPST, I don't care if it's my trout spay rod and up to winter fish I pretty much run that 40 for everything. It'll shoot, like I said, with a super light stuff and my trout spay stuff and I've never felt like I needed something thinner and I know they market like the thinner ones for that, those I always find that they're kind of a pain and they knot up, and one of like the 15, 20 pound ones and it's like, yeah, I just I don't really see a need for it. And so, yeah, I've got like four seasons now, my trout spay and it gets in the car and I run the 40 pound. So yeah, actually Austin was casting when we were doing the whole video with our longer stuff. Yeah, I mean, I mean you look at the video and you see how long that line sheets is, like it just shows like it's technique or not, as like that running line doesn't affect that. That's the way I look at it.
Speaker 4:And I run, go ahead and last question do you find that it rips off the water better or equal? It's the flatter.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it comes off the water. I think that it doesn't sink as bad as anything. That's round for some reason, and it might be cause it'd be, you know, just like a water skater or something Everything's round, but their feet are a little more oval shape. I think that it has a little bit more surface area, so it doesn't sink in the water as much. That's just a guess.
Speaker 2:Just because I have ran some stuff that's round, like I know people like they love, like oh, I love that Berkeley big game and I get that it's super cheap. And again, I don't like it because those knots are thick and it always scares me, like especially when it gets cold, if something is a big fat knot and hits that tip top like it makes me wonder if it's gonna break or something. Yeah, like I used to do like the UV knot sense on my stuff just to make it a little bit smoother, which you can do, but seriously, like I haven't done it for probably three years now on my LPST, cause I think it's just as smooth as anything else without it. Yeah, and then what I know there's a couple other new stuff. I haven't really tried, but I have veered away from getting to like ultra thin stuff when it comes to running lines.
Speaker 4:Yeah, what, what? Not be used to attach the shooting head to the running line?
Speaker 2:Shooting head to running line. I do a double or triple surgeons typically on those and then on my running line I'm sorry, my shooting line to running line. I use the all right knot, yeah, or Alberto, and then either one. To me that thing is like incredibly smooth the way those work and I like the way they seat. It doesn't burn the mono, especially if you're just using you know, any kind of like whatever in Dacron or whatever material, doesn't really matter to me. I've never had an issue with it, ever. Yeah, and people, you know if you're worried, like I said, literally I've caught some really big fish on those monos and I haven't changed that knot since last winter. I've definitely caught some fish in like 15, 18 pound range with that 40 and those knots have never failed me. So, yeah, Food for thought.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah I use the laser line as well from OPSD. I like it a lot honestly. I've tried several different ones now and I can honestly say I've tried the Rio metered as well. Great for beginners is what I would say. It's a great line for beginners, but for people who don't want to get to the bottom of the line stick, who want to be able to cast further, that and it's really, really thick, it's just, it's not great for like your intermediate to advanced casters. I don't think personally.
Speaker 1:But the oval lines, as far as what I've experienced, I think OPSD's oval line is eh, and because I have it on my trout's bay and I haven't decided whether I hate it or I like it, because some days I can definitely tell like it's just like weird how it acts sometimes and I don't, I don't like how it's very inconsistent with how it acts. Some days it'll be like super, like non-memory, and then other days it'll be coiled up and I have to actually wring out the coils and I'm like this is super weird. But Hazumi from NOM it's another oval line and that that stuff's great, that's fantastic. I have several buddies who have that Hazumi from NOM on theirs and it's absolutely I would use it just like OPSD laser line. I mean I like it a lot. It shoots very well, not a lot of line stick, don't have a whole lot of issues with coils or memory. Obviously all line has some kind of memory, but kind of, like David said, people give OPSD a hard time about having a lot of memory and I'm like I don't see that necessarily myself. I mean, maybe once on the blue moon I get like a real coily spot, but that's usually when I get into line I haven't used in a while. If you're casting the same distances pretty frequently, that memory doesn't really allow to happen because you're constantly peeling it off your reel and allowing it to stretch. So that's just my opinion. I think overall OPSD laser still the go to for me. I like that.
Speaker 1:35 to 40 pound. It's like it's just the shit. I don't think I don't use anything below 30 pound. I've never used anything below 30 pound so I couldn't tell you below that. But everything from 30 pound to 40 pound I absolutely love it. All works great and knots are like beautiful. So that's just my personal opinion. Yeah, that's the.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to give it a shot this winter until I'm like I'm probably put on some winter stuff and then I'll see. But yeah, it's kind of a shame. So the whole memory thing, I think it is a little bit deceiving because so I find it like in my car, especially if I go fishing and everything's wet and I kind of leave in the car and then I switch in different reels and so I don't get back to that reel for two, three weeks a month. That's where the memory comes back. So I think it's the people that don't use their stuff frequency have that problem, People that are like fishing every week or two weeks or more. You're never going to see those problems and that's why we get that inconsistency.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would totally agree. I think it's just how often are you using that line and how often you're peeling that line off your reel. You know you get those guys that are only casting 40 feet and then they start becoming better as casters. Well, then they start casting 70 feet and they're like well, my line has so much more memory all of a sudden and it's like well, that's because you've got an extra 30 feet, 30 feet that you're not haven't been using all this time. So it hasn't built up, it still has a bunch of memory in it. It hasn't stretched and doesn't act the same. Yet you know, once you get more time behind it and fish it more and are constantly using it, yeah, that memory will go away and it'll finally just be pretty smooth for the most part.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you're going to find that, especially like in smaller arbor reels, like my hardy perfect smaller diameter, like you're going to notice that, more than something with a large diameter, like one of my reels, I have like the fewest memory how to go grab it.
Speaker 1:What do you use, Andrew? What do you find is a good running line for yourself?
Speaker 2:Yes, I have my winter rod just sitting on a counter.
Speaker 4:Does the fish have a running line on it or did I get a separate running line? Honestly, I can't even think about it because it's late and I'm not as nerdy as you guys, so ha ha. But yeah, it's a I've always used like actual running line, like not mono.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I've had the OPST like integrated one for the car. Yeah, I think and I liked it. I didn't really find it was like crazy naughty, but it was comparatively to some of the better, like that wolf one I don't know if it's even wolf, for some reason my brain just locks on to things. But yeah, I like the thicker ones versus the thinner ones for sure.
Speaker 2:So that's as coily. I know it's pink sometimes trying to show it. So this is my winter reel, so I haven't used this since February, march of this year, but it's such a. It's a much bigger arbor. I mean somebody's hand, yeah. So I find that, yeah, you get these bigger arbor and you're just not going to have the same issue. So, yeah, if you see memory, it's going to. Yeah, you're going to have smaller arbor, smaller diameter stuff. You don't use it very often. All that magnifies, yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it is like for me. I just always use the pink. I think it's almost no line is pink, so it stands out so well and like low light or seen it in flight.
Speaker 4:And so what are you buying exactly? Just because I'm going to have to re listen to this at a later date, and as far as the running line, yeah, yeah, so it's the OPST laser line, 40 pound.
Speaker 2:And I always buy mine in pink just because, like I said, when you look at the contrast, I mean that's the head, there's the line, it's super obvious. I mean, almost on any kind of background it just really stands out. So it's really easy to see. You know, as it comes up to the rod tip. Try to get that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's my knot that.
Speaker 2:I have in the 40 pound. That's pretty tiny, yeah, it just lays really flat. Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't know, yeah, you don't need a ton of drag. I mean this is like yeah, these reels are pretty, you know, you just don't need a bunch, like I've never had my reel up that high.
Speaker 4:Having a big arbor like that's another thing when I was buying, and they're great for picking up line.
Speaker 2:I mean, for example, like I don't know, I've got one, two, two and a half poles and yeah, they pick up line really fast. I mean that was one pole and I pulled up probably like eight, 10 feet. Is that? Which one is that? So they don't make this one particular anymore. So this is if you can find these, I swear, if I can find another one, I'm going to buy it. So this is the sage domain and it's called the 10. So it's a nine 10 reel. Yeah, I like, because it's one, it's a full cage and you can see like the tolerances are ridiculously tight, yeah, and there's like almost no deviation in this reel. It's like it's just five six years old.
Speaker 4:Does it have a very thick pin that it like sits on? No, is it thin?
Speaker 2:It is. It's actually a fairly thin, I mean it's it's. I mean it's twice as big as like, and so the other thing there, a little bit tough, you know, let me try to get it out. It's just like my fingers are big. I always need like a tool for this one. Oh yeah, the bottom ring, which I like because, like the top, well, it's all these little holes you have to stick your hand into. Oh, okay. That's a little, or something here.
Speaker 4:Does anyone have good tricks for when you're trying to take a reel off a rod and it's like.
Speaker 2:So I guess this one is a little bit bigger than most of the other ones.
Speaker 4:Okay, so I have the rise. I have two rises, uh-huh yeah, and they with. When I thought um should not call on it on both the reels, they both ended up. Like now, when I fight a big fish, it scrapes Gotcha, so bent a bit.
Speaker 2:Um, so those are partially casted on the rises and so this reel, like I mean, you can use this as a saltwater reel. Um, yeah, and I said it, having those tolerances, like actually putting a little bit of grease and stuff in there, makes a huge difference. Um, which I was showing Austin, like one of the common things, like even on the Hardy reels, like they just do a packaging grease and so the arbor, like here, it'll make a clicking sound, which is when it's starting to do so. If you put a little bit of grease, like that goes away and it also keeps stuff from getting inside. So that'll help a little bit. Um, tighten everything up, make it a little bit smoother. Um, so the sage domain I'll try to think of, like what's comparable to it now, Um to the domain uh man Spectrum.
Speaker 2:C or whatever it's the upper end spectrum, it would be like the spectrum C would be a good one.
Speaker 4:Guess who. Um spectrum C, yeah, this guy. Yeah, I bought one when I was in the Kootenai. It's about a nine, 10. Yeah, my streamer rod. But now I'm just going to buy a bunch of spools. It's going to streamers. I love it. You can just spin it to pick up real quick.
Speaker 2:This thing picks up. That's what I like, Cause it's yeah, it's really clean on that.
Speaker 4:It's huge advantage when you're streamer fishing or you're even, um uh, spay casting and you want to like, pick up and move, to be able to like, just like, spin your, your real and just like, then I'm all back in business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, caught up, um, I like it's, like it's just so smooth, so that's what the drag off I mean you can see, like it doesn't really matter if I go forward or reverse, it's exactly the same way. Like, so there is absolutely no resistance. Um, and then it's got the markers on it, which I do like, yeah, I've had really good luck that I know, like in slow water, like two and a half um, fast water, three Um, and that's at a scale of 10. Like, you don't really need, I mean, so you're only, I'm only using like roughly 30% or less of the drag tension on this. Yeah, um, those really big fish, I think I went to like four or five. So, which is crazy, I've never been that high. But, um, yeah, it's just one of the reels that I really liked. It's taken a beating, it's been dropped and the finish doesn't break off. But I know I wish they never discontinued this.
Speaker 2:I've had a lot of people actually, um, john Haslett, which is one of the Ely sage reps, that came up. He's like dude, that was like one of my favorite reels and he's obviously tried everything from sage Um, so every once in a while these will come. They will come up, you know, like on spade pages or whatever, like secondhand Um, I can tell you like it's worth. Even mine I've never seen one go bad. I know of some other guys that have the, the eight version for like single hand six weights or, like you know, your big seven, eight um weight single hands.
Speaker 2:But yeah, pretty solid, raw, a real, fairly light. I wouldn't call them, I would say they're like 30, 20, 30% a little. They're definitely heavier than the rise, but they're not like party heavy. Um, and I this and the winner of like I've never had this thing ever freeze up or anything but big. Like I said, I love full cage reels, especially when it comes to stay Just oh yeah, it's just yeah, especially with the mono. It just you don't have anything that's ever going to cross it, you know. So I think that's a big one.
Speaker 4:So thing is when you take your like line out and then you're crossed underneath or something.
Speaker 2:Oh, like how much did. I damage it even over time, you know so scary, just like, please just work out.
Speaker 4:Yeah, um, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, so so the yeah, this is definitely like the arbor on that is at least, yeah, about 50% big, like wider than like you'd find on some hardies or said, um, like the behemoth, that's really small in the center, you know, um that V line and trying, I think, like this would be closer to like a hatch as far as the diameter. But, yeah, it's like a quarter the price. Yeah, um, again like yeah, so that those have. So if you really want big arbor, I would say like you can find some of the they actually have. It's called a arbor XL from, say, just a new one. It's a big, large arbor. Um, so you got that. Um, the loop opties or any of like the loop, like um, the bigger spools that you'll see, like loop in general has some incredibly huge, large arbors. That would be another reasonably priced, good quality um, real Um, like I said, a lot of the hatches will be large arbors. Um, those are the ones that kind of stick out right now. Yeah, ross and that size, not quite the same. Um, and then, yeah, like I mean, you get stuff like the Tivors. They're like small hardies are small. Um, yeah, most of the Redding tins aren't like that would call them more of a medium, not a large arbor. So yeah, it kind of depends what you want.
Speaker 2:But you know, people like, oh, talk about fighting fish, like I don't know if this is the reel that I've only used in winter, only actually got into all my biggest fish have been on this reel and I've never had an issue with this reel. Like people say, oh, a smaller one, you can like crank them in, like I don't know, like I just never had an issue. So I don't really think that's a huge thing. And the people that use the loops, like that's all the big Atlantic salmon in Norway and you know, over in the that, you know kind of Nordic area, so I'm not really buying it because those fish are bigger than almost anything we have on this. You know the West coast here, um, but yeah, I'd say if you would have an issues, like maybe just try, like a larger arbor, even go up a one size. Like so many of these reels are super light so you can go way up in size.
Speaker 2:You know whether it's a trout spay or summer rod. You know it's funny because, like, if it's a summer rod or winter rod, I'm still using the same size reels. You know, as far as like size wise, they're all nine tenths Um, so but yeah, I mean, I think I'm trying to remember them the numbers I think this is like 7.6 ounces. So for a similar size but a smaller arbor, like the Hardy salmon to Marquis um, not Markey, and now they're supposed to if you ask Hardy, that's how they pronounce Um, that one's like 10.6 ounces. So it's, it's pretty heavy in comparison. Um, teabars are always going to be heavy. The sage spay, actually, that's like a mid arbor, but it's really heavy.
Speaker 1:Oh, speaking of which crazy thing. If you have a sage spay and you go to warranty it, you're not getting the sage spay back right now. You are going to be waiting for what's coming down the pipe. So for all of you spay junkies that are in the sage stuff, uh, they have any spay reel coming out sometime in the future here relatively quickly. Uh, got a little insider information on that.
Speaker 4:One Interesting yeah, yeah, when I go buy reels now it's like I look at the pin in the side that connects like the housing school. The thicker the better, if you're finding out 100%. And then, yeah, depending on, obviously, if I want a cage or not, that is aesthetic and slash, keeping things organized, um, I don't mind the open ones because I like to put my hand on things. Yeah, but, yeah, that. And then the arbor size to me that's huge, like the more I start to do like streamer fishing or spay casting more and more. Um, having that bigger arbor size and then, especially with a two handed rod, the weight doesn't really matter. So, like you're saying, going up, like you know, even some rods, like an older rod, is heavier, um, so going up a rod or a reel size can be pretty good. Um, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:We actually had this conversation about, um, up locking versus down locking reel seats. Um, like an up locking reel seat, um, your window of weight is smaller than if you have a rod. That's a down lock in a real seat, which is what the Cromers have. Yeah, um, yeah, that Cromer, you could put a reel. That's three, four ounces difference and you probably won't notice it too terribly much, like it'll still balance out versus an up locking. Um, yeah, it could be the difference of something was level and a rod tip that's sinking in the water. Wow, yeah. So that is a huge benefit to a down locking reel seat. You can put a lot more variance of weight on him, which I think is kind of a nice little bonus piece.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, I like weight sometimes, especially like schedule, where I'm going to go cast like a slower tempo. I actually like having that weight because it kind of just helps drive it. Yep, agreed, um. The other thing I think it's underrated which I might change on one of my hearty reels is um, so they kind of make them like they're the real handles are like smooth and then they're just kind of rounded over. I noticed sometimes when, like my hands wet, like it wants to slip off sometimes. Yeah, I do like these with a little bit thicker bell housing. Um, it just gives it's a little bit easier to grab and if it's further away you don't feel like you're kind of pinching it, just your tips of your fingers. Yeah, and it has something.
Speaker 2:I found over the years. That's the ribbing for our club. Yeah, and this one's kind of nice because it's not like rubberized or anything, um, but they do put like these little grooves in them and it gives just enough traction.
Speaker 4:So ribbing for our pleasure.
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah. Yes, ribbing yeah, party traction yeah.
Speaker 4:No, it's um, there's like a lot of little things. And then, yeah, how a reel like spins, like if I'm reeling up and I can just like spin my reel to suck up all that line, that's a big thing for me. I'll go sit and and try out like multiple reels until I'm like, and that's where I came with the spectrum. See, yeah, it just it sucks things up.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think it's just a safe thing to have a couple of their reels and I have a couple of my trout reels and they just pick up line, um, but I do know these. If you take them and like do a little grease, little like oil treatment, you know I use the? Um, the quantum hot sauce, like that's what a lot of people use, like in spay, like dude, that's that's great. When it comes to water, um, like it'll look the same Like two, three years later the application is red. So it's real obvious. But yeah, I mean I did this one and yeah, it's just super smooth, so smooth. So I'm with you on that, like the sage ones are just and I like to be able to pick up line a lot like you, especially like when I have like a bunch of stuff stripped out, I can stick my finger there and it's super light. You know I don't like to take forever and have to handline it. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I've seen some like here's one, there's one real uh pole it's. I think it's out of France, but it might actually not be. Now that I got it, I'm second guessing myself. Right, it's very smooth, but when you're reeling um, it goes it's like a one to three. So for every one it goes three. Yeah, it was cool. And the guy that was fishing it I've had him on flow he, uh, he had one, so I was trying it out. But he was talking about how it was very good for um. When you're fighting, like the King Sammons, which is his favorite thing to do, that's cool Because you could actually like, if they start running at you, they're in full tension the whole time. And he said same for steelhead. Like the steelhead starts running at you, you're in full tension just with like the simplicity of it. But then when you go to reel up, that it's a it's. You can't do it, so but you can just fully pick up everything. Um, europe has a lot of like interesting reels for fishing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know Hardy made some and now there's some saltwater reels. Yeah, they had like the multiplier reels. Yeah, it's like a three to one. Yeah, two to one.
Speaker 4:And actually one more thing it had was if you started running and I was reeling, I could keep reeling and it would. It would go out Um kind of like a spin caster where it was you know Europe, they're just doing it different. Um, it was cool. It was like a $1,500 reel, though, yeah, um, it wasn't cheap, but it was lifetime warranty and made. I'd hope so.
Speaker 2:It was a special engineering involved there.
Speaker 4:There was. There's some European shit going on, um, you know, and yeah, so it was like a Porsche. He obviously swears by it. Um, he's from France, so he gets all these cool reels that he, you know, lives by. Um, I'm honestly like thinking as one day I would definitely, definitely cop one, because the one thing he like he had good arguments, like when the fish is running at you, you can stay in full tension the whole time.
Speaker 2:There's no doubt I've definitely lost fish in that scenario. By the time I realized they're coming in, it's there's too much slag, and then you know, yep Happened to me like five times this year.
Speaker 1:I was trying to reel.
Speaker 2:I can really catch up. And then I go into full salt water mode under the armpit and like two hand and try to catch up and it's gone yeah.
Speaker 4:So that's it's, you know, obviously a big spend, but it was a really cool reel and it was beautiful as well, you know. So I was like, hmm, $1,500 though I can't sacrifice that right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I said I always justify what I spend versus what I get in return of me and like how many trips is that? How many tanks of gas is that?
Speaker 4:It's like let me give up real for this many trips.
Speaker 2:That's an interesting one.
Speaker 4:If I could get one for you know less, a lot less than you probably would have already. But yeah, wasn't super stoked on the rise at first, but then once like it started grinding, I mean I needed to upgrade them sooner than later. But that yeah.
Speaker 2:And I don't know if it's all though. I mean it's like the lamps and reels, like they're good reels, but they have the small post and that's the one thing. Like you said, like you drop them or they get material in there Once it's bent, like those cages, like it's toast, yeah.
Speaker 4:And I had one that I basically bust out for saltwater, but I'm going to use the spectrum C. I know it's not the saltwater rated one, is it? I don't think so.
Speaker 1:No, the spectrum. The spectrum is the saltwater, and then they have a brand new saltwater one. I don't know the name of that one, but I know the spectrum was used for saltwater.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know that like like those, still have the sealed bags and actually rinse out everything.
Speaker 4:When you use your equipment in saltwater and it's not like that 100% saltwater and then regreasing things, cleaning, even like your guides on your rods, the salt builds up on there, so like it's, you know, obviously that's if you're out there for a long time, but I would see it on the like saltwater, like when I would go fishing for salmon trolling.
Speaker 4:I would see that so cleaning, cleaning your stuff, it was never like a super noticeable amount of salt, but you'd see like this, like extra layer, and then you could wash it off, basically yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean there's definitely some differences, like in this reel, like most of, like you know, the shaft on the post for the drag system. It's like a threaded piece on top of another threaded piece and like if you look on this one it's all one piece, from the cage all the way up to the drag system. There are no separation here, you know. So they fully machine it and then it's just a drop in drag seal. So yeah, it's the little things like you don't notice until you see a bunch of different ones, like you start to notice, like maybe that's why and I definitely noticed this versus some other reels that I've had in the past. Yeah, like I said, this reel it only get tested pretty hard with some big fish and just never had an issue with it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, it's the more you know.
Speaker 2:And that's part of a little bit of trial and error.
Speaker 4:That is that is. Or you listen to a podcast like this and you hear it. That's like the best thing. Whenever I like help out a friend, I'm like how much should you spend? And they tell me I'm like, oh, you don't even know. That's like it's not even that much. You got really fucking good gear that will last you like a long time. Yeah, that's. That's where, like, if you're actually going to get into this whole thing, that at a little bit of extra money, if it's worth waiting you know it's worth saving up and then getting it, versus, just like you know, going lower down. I mean, you're right, they make inexpensive quality rods now, multiple brands.
Speaker 2:And just like you said, I mean they're all fishable, it's just the frequency using it, the less likely things to break down.
Speaker 2:And then there's things that you know just make it easier, like the lines are a little bit easier to cast. There's some things that go in that these rods, they just react a little bit better. It's more efficient. So if you're casting a lot like those are things you can Value. Whether you appreciate or not, it doesn't mean that one's a whole lot better, you know. And if someone's still only using a rod three, four times a year, there's no reason for them to buy the most expensive thing because they're probably not even using the potential of it or even notice how good it is. So yeah, like you know, and I've had people like that brand new, like oh, I'll leave it now, but I'm mutual friend. So I broke this rod and it's a big rod, it's an eight weight and he's like see, if you want to sell anything, he's like I'm looking for like a burkheim or a Winston, all these custom rods. So he's like $1,500 straight rod was kind of like he went from and one was great before that and it's like you don't need to go to the top, you know, and it's not going to just make you a better caster by buying the most expensive thing.
Speaker 2:So not that everyone wants to help like people don't buy it. But I just tell people, like buy it if you know you're going to get out and use it, yeah. But if you're not, there's honestly it's just you can use that money for like a bunch of trips. You know. At least, like in that category you could buy something that's a third or half the price and you could buy two guided trips, like that's probably better suited for you. Yeah, you know that's all you're going to use. But if you're going to use it all and it's like I can't afford all those trips but I can put on, you know, 30 to 100 trips this year, like buy myself, then that's probably a better fit, you know, at buying stuff, because otherwise you're going to be upset when you did all those trips and you bought stuff and now you're out of money and you got to replace everything again, you know.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, just kind of value it, like when people tell me there's no beginner, just look at like the frequency of what you're using. I think that's a way better decision, like you said how many flies you're tying. If you're only tying a few or, like you said, it's like some burgers, that doesn't even matter, it just has a little bit of movement, you're going to lose a bunch. Yeah, don't spend a bunch of money, but if you know something needs to stay like needs to kill ride, it needs to have really good proportions. You know, do the hackles turn cleanly? You know?
Speaker 4:Yeah, If you're thinking, if you're at the level where you're thinking if it's keeling or not, yeah, that's when you start buying nice premium quality stuff, yeah, yeah. That's your worry and your fly, Not just like oh my God, I hope this feather stays on Right.
Speaker 2:Well, there goes the rabbit, and now just got like a collar with a hook on it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, hilarious. Oh man, you know what boys? I just looked at the time when we've been talking for like two hours and 45 minutes.
Speaker 2:Never fails.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah, it was a good one, though. I enjoyed that talk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good transition.
Speaker 4:I don't know what I'm really upgrading. I really like the fest right now for like more of a compact thing going on. It's it makes me happy. I use it a lot more in the winter than I used it.
Speaker 2:The only problem is like I wouldn't say I would not, I would probably use it more if I had more options. So because it's they're harder to come by, you know now. And so I've got the 510 grains. I kind of have to like, okay, I can only use these rods with this line, because that's like the only this line I've got and I got one size up in that, the Rio game changer, yeah. So yeah, kind of like pigeon homing is like, yeah, I might buy a different one, but yeah, the rods that I use it on, I absolutely love casting it. I think it's great winter stick or line.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a bridge corn. It's one of those things that like I do want to try it and I bought it and started fishing it. I, like, started getting into steelhead as well.
Speaker 4:I'm on for more than that 1.3 seconds really, but yeah they. So I got like confidence on it pretty much out the gate. So as long as I like can read the water and judge where my angle, I can now cut water way better than I could on it and I bet if I went back to my old line it like I don't know and it's green. It looks sexy as shit. I have green running line, Nice, and a green Super complimentary there. Everything's just green and it honestly looks so sick. I love it. It's the ninja Ninja, the waffles dude Ninja the waffles.
Speaker 4:But yeah, no, I always appreciate having you guys on. It's a Thanks for having us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a super fun Always connect.
Speaker 4:Yeah, 100% it's. It's been good. I like having you guys on quite a bit, so, yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate it and yeah, have a good night, I'll be in Mexico.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say good luck in Mexico, good luck yeah.
Speaker 4:I'm going to definitely do some drinking the first few nights. Pacifico's and Pop Tarts dude. I'm so excited to just like Live off of tacos again. That's what I did last time. I just Nice Always ate tacos. We were out and about tacos Like it wasn't even a question, I didn't have to sweat about anything. Yeah, tacos chicken.
Speaker 2:You know I really have to overly seek them out or feel bad that it's just a daily, routine food item.
Speaker 4:I'm like and it's like so good, all they're like, oh, I'm excited, I'm excited, but yeah, I'm wanting to get out at least like three or four times for like half day. Just try some different fish patterns and trim patterns and see what we can come up with. Last time I went, I like started seeing more areas that I could find fish, but this time I'm on the opposite side of Mexico, so we'll see Sides from that, though lots of drinking and enjoying the sun.
Speaker 2:So it sounds like a solid, so it might be on the next video. Yeah, some Breros and Sparrow.
Speaker 4:I was thinking about that. I was like I wonder how, like if someone really dedicated making a space setup for shooting, like in beach conditions, like heavy, they make overhand two hand rods, like Bula has their all bull, all bull.
Speaker 2:They're not the all bull, there's one before that too.
Speaker 1:There is, I forget the name of it, but the Onyx, the Onyx.
Speaker 2:No, that was a two, maybe it is, I don't know. Yeah, and then SA. There's a couple other companies that was called like Airflow had the 40 plus. They actually had like the. It's kind of like an overhead shooting hand line. It was a little more slight, smoother taper. But yeah, I guess, like some of the guys that do like some striper fishing and stuff on the east coast of the United States, like pretty popular there Super popular.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so you're basically doing like a single hand cast with a shooting head and then just yeah, and it's all aerialized.
Speaker 2:So one back, one forward and that's actually a competition distance. I know cause Whitney Gull does it. You know she's like the women's spay casting champion for Spearama. She does the. I think it's more of a European thing and I know like there's some European only distance competitions where they do a single hand to hand and it's the same thing. But it's you get one cast back, one cast forward and then you get a distance competition. Nice, cool.
Speaker 4:So yeah, that's a that distance stuff is pretty sick, yeah. What people can do with.
Speaker 2:I know right.
Speaker 4:Then I go out and I'm like it's not doing that what I? Yeah, all right boys. Well, yeah, it was a great pleasure and I'll talk to you guys later.
Speaker 3:Thank you for listening to dead drifter society. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. In the meantime, keep up with the show and get to know Andrew on Instagram at dead drifter society. Until next time.
Speaker 4:And there you have it. That was Austin and David just chilling out with me talking about gear and all that good stuff. So if you want to go, follow them. I will have their Instagrams on in the description down below. As far as anyone else you want to hear on the podcast, just shoot me a message over at dead drifter society and on all the social platforms and I'll see what I can do till next time. I'll catch you later.