Dead Drifters Society: A fly fishing podcast
Riverside Revelations: Navigating Euro Techniques, and Rafting Adventures. with returing guess Britton Reed
Ever found yourself knee-deep in a river, with nothing but your wits and a fly rod to snag that elusive trout? Welcome to our world, where the gentle art of fly fishing meets the wild unpredictability of nature. This time around, we're unpacking the essentials of fly fishing vices and techniques, sharing a treasure trove of knowledge that'll elevate your game—whether you're wrestling with the drag of a heavy leader or perfecting the delicate dance of a dry fly.
Britton Reed, of the Dead Drifter Society, joins us to swap tales of his latest rafting journey and that unexpected musky that made his bass ruler look like a toothpick. We're buzzing over the stealth advantage of rafting to those secret fishing holes, while spinning stories of our own riverbank escapades. Plus, we're getting artsy—blending our passion for fly fishing with a dash of creativity, and how the whims of the weather have us tying flies one minute and building snowmen the next.
Lastly, we're cutting through the fog of fishing gear marketing to focus on what truly matters—affordability without sacrificing quality. From the nifty tricks of Euro fishing to the subtleties of tippet selection, we're here to guide you through the maze of options. We'll debunk the myth that only high-end specialty stores can outfit you for success, and we'll even toss in a few pro tips on how to wrangle in those wild fish with nothing but your smarts and some carefully chosen gear. So, whether it's your first cast or your thousandth, this episode's got something to make your next fishing trip a hit.
•Britton Reed
https://www.instagram.com/spookintrout?igsh=MTY0eGYyeWM4ODJ3bg==
Ever found yourself knee-deep in a river, with nothing but your wits and a fly rod to snag that elusive trout? Welcome to our world, where the gentle art of fly fishing meets the wild unpredictability of nature. This time around, we're unpacking the essentials of fly fishing vices and techniques, sharing a treasure trove of knowledge that'll elevate your game—whether you're wrestling with the drag of a heavy leader or perfecting the delicate dance of a dry fly.
Britton Reed, of the Dead Drifter Society, joins us to swap tales of his latest rafting journey and that unexpected musky that made his bass ruler look like a toothpick. We're buzzing over the stealth advantage of rafting to those secret fishing holes, while spinning stories of our own riverbank escapades. Plus, we're getting artsy—blending our passion for fly fishing with a dash of creativity, and how the whims of the weather have us tying flies one minute and building snowmen the next.
Lastly, we're cutting through the fog of fishing gear marketing to focus on what truly matters—affordability without sacrificing quality. From the nifty tricks of Euro fishing to the subtleties of tippet selection, we're here to guide you through the maze of options. We'll debunk the myth that only high-end specialty stores can outfit you for success, and we'll even toss in a few pro tips on how to wrangle in those wild fish with nothing but your smarts and some carefully chosen gear. So, whether it's your first cast or your thousandth, this episode's got something to make your next fishing trip a hit.
•Britton Reed
https://www.instagram.com/spookintrout?igsh=MTY0eGYyeWM4ODJ3bg==
It massively changes your drag and even though it's like my new, it's, it's seeable Cause when you, when you're using like seven X, that's like zero drag. You know what I mean Like, and I think you should challenge yourself. Like, where I live, you can pretty much only catch on six or seven Like you couldn't catch on five but, but if you want to catch wild fish consistently, you're going to need like six or seven Mm, hmm, and I just use like uh, use Berkeley vanish, like fluorocarbon, uh, because you can get in a big school and it's a lot more affordable, and you can get it in six pound, four pound and two pound, which is like comparable to five X, six and seven X. Welcome to debt, the director's, director's society. Pretty expensive though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, okay, the uh, the vices and stuff. It's like you know you don't need an expensive vice to tie flies by any means, but when you use them as much as you and you and I, um, you know having a nice, see, I like that. That's a whole. You got all your stuff together. That seems like that. Rinzetti has a bigger base too. Is it pretty heavy? Was that like an upgraded base?
Speaker 1:Uh, so this is just a regular traveler base. It's actually a pound less than the HMH. This whole setup is a pound less. Okay, yeah, just because of the difference in materials, like, uh, this is aluminum and stuff like that and the HMH is literally stainless steel or brass. You know what I mean? Yeah, for everything. And then the base is like really heavy. That's the one thing that I saw about the stone flow. This guy, uh, I saw a review and he opened the bottom of the base and he put BBs in it to add additional weight to it. He can look now, never looked, yeah, and there's like you can take street out of there, yeah, and then, like he I'm going to send you the link to the video. It is on YouTube oh, I think it's the Sven Diesel guy yeah, uh, yeah. And he, he put BBs in it because I'm very much interested in one of those voices as well.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, it's, it's a great vice. I think this is basically my forever vice in terms of like I don't actually need another one. Well, we buy another one eventually because we like having vices more than what we need, right? But yeah, I mean, like I said, I just from being able to switch it very easily and then get onto tube flies and like this, this isn't actually the, the one that holds the tube flies, it's supposed to be this head, um, and then there's like a bunch of different pins that kind of look like this Um, so you can put the pin in into this, and then you'd have your piece of plastic there and you'd be able to try.
Speaker 2:But I dripped glue on it and I was like, oh, it won't matter, and I tightened it up, it mattered. So we learned from our mistakes. You know, yeah, for sure, um, it happens a lot. Yeah, exactly, I mean, you're just bound to get some kind of issues when you get glue into threads, but the, the switching it is super smooth and super nice. And, um, yeah, I, it's an expensive one. So if you got a major price point you got to stick to, it's probably not the right vice for you, um, whereas the traveler Renzetti is uh, I think it's a few hundred dollars less, but I went really, I think there are.
Speaker 1:I think that the Renzetti is really 230 for the traveler. Yeah, I think the stone flows are really nice. They're between five and 600 bucks Usually, I think. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's about it Give or take, american or Canadian.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I want to show this really quick, so we got a video. Like you're saying, I have this. I always put my voices in, like these uh little plastic containers that way, like Access material that falls off will fall down into here, like like this stuff, and if it's every usable, then then I can just use it again, and if it's trashed then I just dump it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's, that's a good one. I don't think it holds.
Speaker 1:We continue, sorry, no, this thing holds flies and sometimes I put flies on this little thing I made in this little raft with magnet dude, that's sick.
Speaker 2:I don't know why I like that so much, but that's so sick Dude.
Speaker 1:So I wanted a raft so bad. So I saw this fire truck raft in a hot, hot wheels thing and I bought it and painted it black and I was like I'm going to keep holding onto this thing until I can get a raft. And I ended up getting a raft, so it was really cool. And then, yeah, yeah, I got the idea to put magnet in there because I just thought it would be cool, yeah.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love it. Well, I guess, because we didn't actually start the podcast, we can start it right now. Welcome to Dead Drifter Society. Today's guest is Bryn Reed. How you been, buddy.
Speaker 1:I've been. Well, how have you been?
Speaker 2:I've been good, so I guess you started off with a really cool thing right there. You got a raft, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:What did you get? I got Dave's Scadden Dragonfly. It was like a 2018 model, but the guy had only used it like two or three times and you know I thought he was messing with me, because you know how people try to sell stuff. But I looked at the bottom and there's, it was like new. You know what I mean. He used it in a pretty big river that he probably never touched anything with. You know what I mean? Yeah, and he likes I'm not sure I'm not too big into rafting and knowing all the different types and stuff, but he likes to type a raft. It's I think it's called a Carter raft. It's like a type of raft that you can. It's a seat with two, two inflatable things and then you can like just jump right off of it.
Speaker 2:Okay, like a pontoon style, yeah, yeah, like two tubes and your seats in the middle and you can just Yep.
Speaker 1:And he, he prefers that because he says he likes to just jump out rather than drop an anchor, because dropping an anchor, you know, but yeah, I would, I don't mind that at all.
Speaker 2:So yeah Well, and now you go to raft. How's that been? Have you been? I guess you need to find someone, or you have a few friends that have a raft as well, so you guys can drop a vehicle off at the bottom, or how's that been working for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's pretty much what we do. I go with a friend and we drop one car off and then sometimes, like one friend, he doesn't have a car that's big enough and I don't have a trailer right now for it. So I just put it I have a Honda CRV and it. It folds down and fits in my car perfectly. But my friend, he'll go to where we're going to get out of the water park his car. I'll pick him up, then we'll go set up the raft, float down and either lock up the boat and drive up to my car and then drive back. You know what I mean. It's kind of like a lot of, but we I don't do too big sections and the rivers that I've been in have been pretty slow and they're not like big rivers or anything.
Speaker 2:So no, it's. You know, yeah, rafting is like pretty sweet and like I really enjoy. You know you get so much more water opens up to you. You're able to touch the other side, which you know, when you're on foot, the other side always looks better. So far, yeah, you know what I mean. You're like there and you're like man, if I was on that other side I'd be catching fish. And then you know, one day you finally get there and you're like that's the same, or maybe it is a little better if it's a touch less by anglers. But yeah, it's nice being on a raft and being able to cover the amount of water you do so Definitely and sand it up.
Speaker 1:Well, I sometimes just stand up on the seat and I could just see the vantage from there is extremely well. You know what I mean Like yeah, that's another good point.
Speaker 2:You got to see a lot more going on in the water when you're above it versus standing in it, and well, and I guess we're not spooking as much trout. Now you can change your Instagram handle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, dude, the first time I took it out. So I got a ruler and a frame width is like 36 inches. So I got a ruler that was that and it's like a sticker ruler and I was like, oh, I won't catch a bigger fish in this. We were out fishing for bass and I ended up catching a really big musky. I don't know how big it was. It was bigger than 36 inches because we didn't have a ruler. You know what I mean? We didn't have a ruler big enough. I didn't think that was going to happen at all. That's so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was because you put it in your body. You're like you can't beat this ruler, there's nothing out there. Bone musky.
Speaker 1:No, because, like I, was expecting to catch bass in like the 16 to well, realistically, 14 to probably 20 inch range. Maybe you know what I mean. So, and we did catch a couple of good bass, but that's been too crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And bass are different. They get like well, I mean they do get big, but they get, like you know, fat and buff.
Speaker 1:Well, they're smart and they can see, like so far. It's incredible Like if the water is low and clear, they can see very far.
Speaker 2:Like better than trout.
Speaker 1:Oh, I would say it depends. Yeah, they just hide in different places, so it would be hard to say. You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean I guess they they're also a very visual hunter, you know they're, yeah whereas trout are focusing for, like, more bugs and that kind of opportune moment. But bass chase things a lot, so they need their, their eyes, quite a bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think movement is really their, their go-to thing. You know what I mean. Yeah, versus, where a trout can be looking for something that's like not moving and the slightest movement and it won't and it won't take it. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and then, like brown trout they're you know, once they get past a certain size they go more towards the the nocturnal kind of aspect of of hunting.
Speaker 1:Definitely, and it's and it's harder to catch them because of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's good to see you, man. It's been like, I don't know, has it been like a year since we've?
Speaker 1:I mean, we've obviously talked since, but yeah, I think it's been like a year or so. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's crazy man Like I wish I could stay on top and chat with everyone, but you know he gets so busy and try and always find new, new guests and stuff, so it's everything slips through the cracks. Um, yeah, the podcast itself is still doing good and all, but I want to. I want to get it going better, obviously, because that's the goal with everything. So, yeah, definitely been taking a look at kind of the people that, um, the episodes did really well with and was wanting to get kind of a list going of people and you're definitely one of them. It seemed people were quite interested in the bugs and the Euro nymphing and all that.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think, oh, that YouTube would be a good avenue for you, because there's so many people that are having so much more success on YouTube than on Instagram and and I've had a lot more success on Instagram than YouTube, you know, and he and Mike.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the steps for me on YouTube, because it is like a whole nother bag of worms.
Speaker 2:You know if we're not even talking about like, let's say, algorithms, or you know how to actually reach more people on YouTube, but lighting um the video, like zoom has been really good to me for audio, but there's a better program out there for for um video.
Speaker 2:I said audio last time, I meant zoom is really good for audio, but I want to to get a little bit better with the uh the video, and so I'm going to be eventually here switching over to a new program that, instead of like zoom, it records everything on my computer. So if there's any lag or anything going on like that, it records that, whereas this other program it's called Riverside Um it records on my computer and then it records you on your computer and then it would send me that recording. Nice, um. So yeah, there's definitely different things that I need to kind of sort out for that. But yeah, I kind of started realizing, like you know, especially since I don't promote more than you know, if you post uh the podcast or something like that, it's hard to promote podcast Sorry, my dog's up my butt.
Speaker 1:Come on, dude, come on, do it. If you're going to jump, jump jump there.
Speaker 2:You go there, you go there, you go there, you go there, you go there, you go there, you go there, you go. Oh, I don't know, is it a way to go? Yeah, yeah, he is, look at him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's like obsessed with being near me. Is he a fishing?
Speaker 2:buddy. Oh no, he's old.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say he kind of had the facial hair of an older dog, Dude all this used to be like dark brown, like oh yeah, yeah, he doesn't even hardly look like him. He looks ghostly almost. Yeah, he's a good guy though, yeah, he looks like a good guy, Great dude. He's just like wants to sit with me every time I tie and stuff like that. He'll lay down, he's a tying dog. Yeah, he'll lay down here in the second hurricane. Okay, TOPic, let's go yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been pondering what I want my next dog to be. Not that I want my dog to, you know, no one even say yeah. But we're getting. We're getting near that realm of things.
Speaker 1:Definitely this guy's 14, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's a. This is a sad thought, but you know it's funny. A wiener dog popped into my head the other day and I was like those guys are like. I met some not so nice wiener dogs, but usually they're just like these happy go lucky kind of dogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's like the nicest dude ever. He just wants pop cups. You know what I mean. If you give him any food, he's about it. Yeah, and he's a. Luckily we've kept him not. You know, we've kept him in shape. We walk him enough and stuff, because there's a lot of people that get him fat. You know what I mean. I think I've seen this lady with one drag. It's belly was dragging. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like dang, I think people sometimes I mean not everyone, obviously, but you know, you get a small dog they're like, oh, they don't need to go out as much. It's like, no, they kind of do still need to go, just, and probably even in a sense more, because they're small, they can put on weight real quick, definitely. Yeah, I see all our dogs that get chunky.
Speaker 1:And people don't realize portion size. You know what I mean. You're like oh, it's just a small piece, but it's like they're. So he weighs 13 pounds, man. Yeah, you know what I mean. He can at least eat a pound of food, though We've seen it happen.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, that's that's. Yeah, I know what you mean. That's. Yeah, that's a dog companions man. I haven't been able to take my dog out fishing as well for quite some time now because he's he just can't handle a full day of fishing and he's not used to rafts or boats. Yeah, when he was younger he was never on one.
Speaker 1:So I'm kind of I was thinking the same thing. Like the next puppy, I want to take it like first couple of weeks. I'm going to take it on the boat. Yeah, strapping, yeah, just so it gets used to it and it can go from there. Yeah, well, and that's what.
Speaker 2:I've seen is everyone that does have a dog that goes on a raft. They got it young and they started getting on the raft right away and and they learned to, like you know, be pretty good on there. But yeah, so it's a hard. It's a hard thought. I mean I've always kind of wanted a pity and then I was like kind of leaning towards some other breeds and, yeah, kind of now circled back to I don't know. But, funny enough, a wiener dog has definitely popped into my head because they're just like classic or even like one of those, those hound dogs. Those things are big ears.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he has super big ears too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly no, it's a good look though, but yeah, so have you still been collecting lots of bugs and yeah, definitely Not as much when it's cold, you know what I mean but yeah, when it's warm. Yeah, what's the winter been like for you currently?
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, it doesn't. It's been the wildest year. It started in January. We had a day that was 68 and we had a day that was like two degrees, so it was wild. That's in Fahrenheit as well. So, yeah, I guess, yeah, and it's crazy, we've gotten Fahrenheit. That's cold. Yeah, last year we were below and the water table, we were like three inches below and we've it's only February and we've already gotten more rain and water this year than all of last year.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, and some weird things have been going on Like we're into I guess we're almost March now or we are March. No, we're almost into March, yeah, tomorrow, tomorrow and we've had low water. It took a lot, it took a while. I think it was like November. The river started bumping up quite a bit and it was like good to fish, but normally it would be like September. So pretty much two months behind and our winter here, I think end of December, january, we got some snow and then it like all of a sudden warmed right back up. It was like, you know, t-shirts, maybe a small sweater, kind of thing. Yeah, recently, last week, it's been like cold again, like I'm wearing thermals for work, two sweaters and like still somewhat cold. Then we got snow the other day and I'm like I don't know what's going on. It's really hard to predict.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you're having the exact same year as us. Like last year we were more than four inches down in water, yeah, like we were in a drought and like a severe drought technically, and I think we're still like two inches under because even though it's rained a lot you know what I mean it's rained, it's snowed, it snows like eight inches and then the next thing, you know, it's 60 degrees out, so it's gone. Yeah, you know what I mean. That's what, basically what's been going on. We made this massive snowman and the grills made. It was like seven feet tall. Yeah, my yard kind of has a slope to it, so I was rolling the ball uphill until I could hardly not roll it and then I started just pushing it downhill. You know what I mean? Yeah, and then once I couldn't push it anymore. That's where we, that's where we the snowman stood, and it was there until yesterday because we got rained yesterday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's been. It's been interesting. Fishing's been pretty good though, because we've been having the warmer weather, so like we haven't really had. You know, obviously winter fishing slows down a bit, but I mean I was seeing mayflies like a couple of weeks ago, if not even like three, four weeks ago. I was seeing little mayflies and little midges flying around and finding bugs under rocks, which normally now is like stone fly time, like February, is when you see stone flies, golden stones under the rocks, and they start to work as as a fly. But yeah, I've been seeing them like straight on the surface floating down, so like dry fly season. Maybe it's coming early, unless we get like some crazy next level cold snap again.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, so, like where I live, like stone flies are pretty hard to find, actually, they they usually there's one spring that has a super abundance of them and then another river that has them in one one like three mile section and that's it, and I've found them. Yeah, so they're not in state college, though it's about a hundred miles northeast, northwest of me and they have tons and tons of stone flies, but they're in the mountains and there's, you know, a lot less people probably have something to do with pollution and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, stone flies have a little special place in my heart because I've just caught some, some beautiful fish using stone flies, but they're also really cool and they're big, so you can like see that. Yeah, look at that. There he is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's like a drawing. Yeah, yeah, oh, dude, that's awesome. That's awesome. They saw one that I caught and he subsequently almost dried out from me trying to draw him. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it took just long enough. You're like, oh shit, better get this guy back. Yeah, yeah, that was a good drawing, though I do draw a lot of your flies.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, but not not really I have a notebook somewhere, but it's like I don't know where exactly right now. Yeah, sure enough, sometimes I draw stuff, though I've been.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to get into watercolors, so but yeah, yeah, the artsy side of these coming out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. I think there's so many people that draw cool fish and watercolors. It's a really good way to capture all the color. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:You want to do that with bugs.
Speaker 1:That would be fun, that would be really cool.
Speaker 2:I'd love to see that. That's cool. Yeah, I used to draw a lot. It's funny how, like I don't know, I used to be way more artsy and like do a lot more artistic stuff and spray paint. I love doing like that's the space, backgrounds and stuff with spray paint. Yeah, then as we grow older and start working, we seem to forget that kind of artsy side of us. But yeah, I've been thinking about there's a logo that's been stuck in my head. I kind of want to make it into a sweater for Dead Drifter Society, but just need to sit down with a pen and paper and probably redraw it like 80 times before it looks good. But I'll get there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think your current logo is sick. I really like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's not much I can do better for this one, but my idea is like, because I used to always draw on people's skateboards I don't know why there's like a few things I could draw really well, one of them being Grim Reaper. I draw this like Grim Reaper. That was like black and white, with like just lots of lines to do the shading, and it looks sick. And so I was like, hmm, I want to kind of do one like that, but obviously flyrod and not the yeah. So well, I'm sure we'll see it come around, but yeah, it's been a, it's been a, it's been a good year. There's a lot of like thought patterns that have changed my mind for the podcast in itself and how I want to do things and I'm trying new things. Like I recently kind of changed how I was doing the podcast slightly, not so much on the conversation aspect of it but more on the kind of background stuff, and tweak some things. And I think I'm going to tweak it a little bit back the way it was. And yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people really like watching videos and stuff like that. Like we were talking about YouTube, my buddy he's on there. His name is Josh, but his Instagram and YouTube is called Trout Owl and he's a really cool guy, but he edits videos and stuff like crazy. He just made a small edit of me catching and, like so many people liked it and was like, let's, I want to see more of this type of you know what I mean. So Josh and I are going to collab more, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that, yeah, it is cool and, like you know, the people that listen to the audio are listening to the audio, and the people that are listening or that watch the video watch the video. So you, I mean I'm sure you get cross platform people bouncing back and forth but yeah, I have some friends that all they do is watch YouTube whether it's definitely there's so many people that do that. And I have friends that listen to, like strictly podcast and like to tide to podcast or drive to podcast. So yeah, you just you open a different barrel for yourself and kind of expand that way. But the cool thing about YouTube, obviously being the video, is you can show things. So, like you know, if you were talking about your drawing but no one can see it, this is that kind of opportunity where someone can see it.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, that's true, and I think there's monetization in YouTube more than a lot of other platforms. You know what I mean. Yeah, like Instagram paid for a little bit. They were doing some weird thing where they paid me for something for making so many reels. If I made like so many reels, then they would pay me. They were it was this really weird thing. It was like incentives, but they got rid of it. And 2022, going into 2023, I think December of 2022, they got rid of it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Monetization is something that I obviously is in my mind. It's not my goal, but if I really wanted to make the podcast, you know, have a longevity thing, then it's probably something that'll have to come up, because everything's out of my own pocket. You know about the laptop, about the, you know those things add up but I love it Definitely. So I learned so much from talking to you know cool people like yourself. And then, yeah, there's a lot of positive, but being able to monetize something and not have to change the way you're doing it, that is that's the dream. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and it's not like you're not. I know what you're saying. You're not trying to become a millionaire off of doing something. You're trying for people that can watch you to be able to watch you, or people that can hear, listen to you. You know what I mean. Some people can only listen on their way to work. Some people, you know, watch. I know this kid that watches YouTube. It's 24, seven. He uses it for music, everything, not even he doesn't use other apps. Really, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good one. I've definitely, like I looked into it, I know how to kind of monetize for a podcast, but it's probably easier, or it is in a sense easier on YouTube. But you do have to play the game for YouTube if that makes sense. Like you have to know the algorithm, or at least like shoot towards you know getting your videos viewed and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in certain things you got to make sure that the people that you bring on know that you know they could jeopardize your account if they said something. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. You don't have to shout, no one say anything. But it's a lot like I've talked to some people that have monetized things and, just like you said, it's you know. Now you're kind of playing in this, this other realm of you. Know, you got to watch yourself and all that. But I love being kind of free and being able to say what I like. So maybe it'll never happen. Yeah, definitely, maybe it will. Ideally, if it could pay for everything that I pay for to make the podcast run, that would be nice. And if it bought me a few feathers here and there, I would not be mad.
Speaker 1:Right. You put a lot of time into it. I feel like you should be compensated for your time. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Those nice messages from my guests, though those shout out to the people that send me a nice message once in a while, because those are probably the reason why it's still going.
Speaker 1:No doubt I feel that way sometimes. Yeah, people are like oh, dude, your pictures are so great and I'm like oh, I'm just taking pictures, you know what I mean? Yeah, two of my best.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good, though, because I don't know. Money's nice and stuff, but it's not everything. It does allow us to go fishing, though, so shout out money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and unfortunately you need like the nicer it is, the more cost. You know what I mean. 100%, and there's not really there's affordable things in fly fishing, but it's not like you know the most affordable thing to just jump into. I actually had somebody contact me and she wanted to get her son into it and I was like you're going to have to get these things to get into this, and she just wanted to get him into regular fishing. Then you know what I mean. No, it's like maybe when he's older he can try it because it is an investment. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I have thought about that a lot with kids, mostly because I'm wanting my kid to get into it. I did buy him the Echo Gecko. I don't know if you can see the yellow rod up there. Where's my fish? Where it is. Yeah, yeah, I can see it the very top. But yeah, if you're like you know if the kid's going to use it once a year, it's hard to dish out. You know waders, boots, a rod, all the flies. You know they probably need a net, all these things, especially if you know you've never done it with them and they might never do it again, they might not like it or anything like that. So, yeah, it is a big cost. Even some of my friends are like, oh, I want to get into fly fishing and I take them out there like that's awesome. And then you know how much is a rod and I'm like, well, here we go, how much are you willing to spend?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean depends on the extremeness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I tell, like anyone that's just starting, I've always kind of mentioned, like you know, a handful of brands that are cost efficient but still have the quality, like I know TFO or Echo. You know I wouldn't be like go buy a sage rod. You know I'd be like, okay, these are the things. But I always tell people like the one thing you don't want to cheap out on is the line. And you know, yeah, you don't really want to cheap out on a rod. But rods have come so far that you can buy kind of an inexpensive and I mean inexpensive, I don't mean affordable, yeah, affordable, you can buy an affordable rod, that's going to be great. But the line you get a good line, you'll be very thankful. I mean, I just recently started kind of buying new lines for the for some of my old setups that I had and because they needed them. But those lines, because I spent that pretty penny on them, lasted, you know that, much longer and I enjoyed using them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, yeah, Well, I actually have a friend and his daughter. She makes bracelets and stuff like that out of old fly line. I actually have one right here, Dude that is unreal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually you were talking about stoneflies and stuff. It's called North Fly Apparel but they, they make cool stuff, that's it. Yeah, I got a couple of those hats from, but yeah, these bracelets are so cool. I think she's pretty young. I'm not sure how old she is, but I think that's really cute. I sent her like I mean he's like, oh, she can use old line and I said, dude, what's your address? And I sent him like a gallon Ziploc bag jam full. Like yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:That's actually really smart too, because it's strong material, you know, I mean definitely. So I've been brought a ton of bracelets myself. I actually made a lot of the bracelets that I have.
Speaker 1:Oh, I got one of those too, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like the yeah see, but that's good material, it's smart out of sync tips and stuff too Like it's endless what you can do Now I just want a big shooting head freaking bracelet I gave her a bunch of.
Speaker 1:So I use nymphing line that has a braid core, so even even if the outside was beat up to, it still has a thread core. You know what I mean? Yeah, and that keeps it really strong.
Speaker 2:That's a good talk. Let's talk about the setup you're using. I know we covered it a little bit on last one, but maybe it's changed a bit. What's your Euro setup these days?
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's changed. I use a Hardy UltraDisk I think it's the 3000 model and I use a Maverick Rod. They're a company that I fish for. They're really cool. They're from the Truckee River, nevada, california area. I think they're from California, but yeah, but I also use their line too, so their line is pretty cool. It's called Tracer 62 and it's 50 feet of the braid core nymphing line and then it goes to 12 feet of mono cider. You know that it goes. They have a couple. Let me grab one of the.
Speaker 2:Yeah, grab it up, Because now we can't. There's video to support it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they got a couple different options, but it's Can you hold that up for a second? Yes, I can.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's Five new Okay. Okay, all right, right on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 50 feet of the Braidcore 12 foot mono leader insider. Totally it's total at 62 feet and then I just have that right to backing. Yeah, yeah, but the I you know my rod has changed since we last talked because Maverick came out with a new rod. It's called the MVX. It's a really nice nymphing rod and I've been using it. The guy that runs the company his name is Jeff and him and I talked and he made changes that were really cool. Like you know, it's flat black now, it's matte black and not it's not really shiny at all, and him and I were also talking about the tonnages on the rod tips and so on and so forth. But yeah, but yeah, it's a really nice rod, yeah.
Speaker 2:There's, I've learned a little bit more about, like how, rod builders because I I talked to one quite a bit rainwater rods and his name is Leonard and it's it's a lot, but it's very interesting and like realizing you know, just moving the guides really changes it up more than you and I, more than you would think.
Speaker 2:And then obviously the blanks and the more that rod builder learns about it and how the rods load and stuff. And since you know Euro rod loads differently, I mean some Euro rods still do really good job at throwing a dry line and, and you know, for dry fly fishing. But yeah, I, I have much more of appreciation for a good rod now and the little subtle things you know, even if it's just the color or the thread used or if it's the way it feels when you're actually fighting a fish, all these little things that you know. Before a rod was a rod to me. Now I'm like you know I really like this rod for that because of this, and then you know I use the, the shadow to the echo shadow to have used that rod or seen it.
Speaker 1:I think I've seen it, but I haven't used it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that one I really like.
Speaker 1:My local fly shop has them, because I was thinking about getting one of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a solid rod for the price. I mean, you know, if you're trying to not break the bank and you want to get into Euro fishing, definitely that's a great one. If you're, you know, wanting to spend a little bit more, there's probably other options out there. But it's been a great rod for me and it's super, super delicate. I think I have the. I believe it's a 10 foot, but then you can also get the. You can get the competition. Yeah. So it's like an extra six inch, I believe, piece that goes in between, let's say, your cork section and your second section, if we're going from there, and then it also has like little weights that you can put at the base of your, your handle so you can read that part right under your real seed and add some extra weight to help balance it. So you know it was a good rod. It's really the only Euro rod that I've tried Maybe a few others that I'm not thinking of in this moment but it's done me so good. The backbone is great and all that. So you know, at the end of the day, as long as we get a fish on the, on the hook, then I'm pretty happy. But yeah, it's been a good one.
Speaker 2:And then I also have the Carbon XL by Echo. Now one's a four weight. I think they do make a three weight. They for sure make a three weight. Second guessing myself now, but no, I'm pretty sure they make a three weight as well. But I got the four weight and it kind of is a really great rod if you're wanting to toss dry flies as well, but you want to, you're a rod. It's kind of best of both worlds. It tosses a dry fly line really well, so been happy with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's pretty cool that you were talking about the convertible piece, because a company, maverick, they have two main rods and the one is called the dual rod and it's nine foot two or it's nine foot six, and then it has an fifth piece, just like you're talking about. And then when you add that that makes it 10 foot two. So and it's like when it's nine foot six, I would say it's a lot more like a four weight, and then when it's 10 foot two, it's a lot more like a three weight. And then there the MVX, the newest model, is 10 foot six and I would say it's, it's fair, it's between a two and a three weight, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's like that's something that I'm also starting to understand a little bit more. It's still kind of is past my pay grade, you could say, but that tip section is a big deal. The way they build the tip section and the way that it feels, obviously when we're, when we're your own infing. It's a lot about sensitivity.
Speaker 1:So anything that I want to make it too brutal at the same time. You know to me Exactly, and that's what, and that's what I was talking to him about, the tonnages and stuff like that, because that's like, you know, the tensile strength and, yeah, the tip sections mean the world of a difference, because a lot of people I tell them, oh, I caught this fish on seven X and they're like how, and it's like because the rod did like the majority of the work. You know what I mean. There's a lot more guides here, so it's going to, you know, put the line at less of an angle.
Speaker 2:I was, I think by last year I pretty much wouldn't go.
Speaker 2:I think by last year I probably would have been sitting mostly at using three X because I was still so nervous of like losing fish, especially for guests that didn't know how to fight a fish.
Speaker 2:But then I went to Cranbrook and did a lot of dry fly fishing and I was kind of forced into using five X more and to my amazement I wasn't losing fish constantly, and so that really kind of opened my eyes to if the water is, you know, right and the fish are spooky, the trout are spooky, then you know you do need to go down, which can mean that you're going to lose the fish. But if you have the right rod for it and you play it right, you're probably still safe. So I've only gone up to six X. I haven't gone to seven X. So maybe that's this year's mission, but I've seen the difference. Like you know, this is mostly dry fly, not catching fish, switching it from, you know, four X to five X and then catching fish like same leader length but just that little tippet lighter, all of a sudden you're into fish.
Speaker 1:So definitely because it massively changes your drag and even though it's like a minute, it's, it's seeable because when you, when you're using like seven X, that's like zero drag. You know what I mean Like and I think you should challenge yourself. Like, where I live, you can pretty much only catch on six or seven Like. You couldn't catch on five but but if you want to catch wild fish consistently, you're going to need like six or seven. And I just use like, use Berkeley, vanish, like fluorocarbon, because you can get into big school and it's a lot more affordable and you can get it in six pound, four pound and two pound, which is like comparable to five X, six and seven X.
Speaker 1:So my friend challenged me to try the. Berkeley was six pounds. So I tried it and I was like dude, I'm going to try the four pound. And then I was like I'm going to try the two pound and a lot of people that are like super snobs will say it is thicker than like some of the other fluorocarbons on the market. But the point is it's a lot more affordable. You know what I mean. It's something that you can go to Walmart and get right now. I mean I don't know if they have Walmart or they have Walmart or you live everywhere. We're not a third world. Thank you, I didn't know if it was a different name or a store. You know what I mean. Some stores are different.
Speaker 2:No way.
Speaker 1:I'm just pulling your chain here, yeah, but it's something that pretty much anybody can get. It definitely works.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, and I've been I mean, I know, for streamer fishing I was always using like the expensive tippet. You know that you buy from your fly shop. And then someone think I was yeah, I probably wouldn't know. I was out in Cranbrook. I learned a lot while I was out in Cranbrook, which is great. But I had a friend who I talked with quite a bit there and he was like, oh yeah, man, like steelhead he uses, I think, maxima At least that's what I got, is it Maxima?
Speaker 2:No, I just worked all day, so maybe my brain's not working very well. Probably Maxima or Seaguar. Yeah, seaguar, that's what I have in 15 pound, because you know it is what it is. It's a lot less expensive and you know I haven't landed any but I've gone them to bite. So some things working out there. And then for when I was out in Alberta going down the bow with a guide, he used, yeah, just your typical. You know Canadian tire is one that we have that you probably don't have but Walmart, but just like eight pound to 10 pound. You know inexpensive stuff. And I know that's for streamer fishing. So it's like they're attacking something versus letting something come to you. But that's good. I'm going to try that out. Maybe not for my clients, but I'll definitely try that out for myself because, yeah, tip, it's expensive.
Speaker 1:For sure and you're not getting that. I mean, I feel like it's a marginal difference, that you know. It's such a minute thing that you're talking about. You know what I mean? Talking about hundreds of an inch or thousands of an inch, and that's like not even something that you can see. Yeah, you know what I mean. I think they do it in millimeters, but even still it's if it's in a hundredth of a millimeter. That's not really something that's very measurable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you know, if you're really concerned, have both, you know, or like the stuff you'd use mainly, and if you think the fish are acting super, you know, spooky or whatever, then you have, you know, your more expensive tippet. But it's a hard like for me when I'm doing the Euro and I usually do like a four to five foot tippet section. So you know, if one of those spools is, let's say I think it's like $24 Canadian, so I'm not sure that works out for you, but probably around $18 or $19. I was gonna say I think $19 or $20.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, so not that big of a difference, but it is a difference. But then you just you're going like this, you know, taking off a chunk that long.
Speaker 1:well, it adds up real quick and especially you lose flies, you're gonna break off a lot. You know what I mean On things and stuff like that. So I really think that it's not something too insane. I'm not. There are a lot of people out there would say that we would catch better fish if we use better tippet. But I'm telling you I don't. To me, I don't think something that's in the hundreds of anything is very measurable. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, and I feel you know kind of circles back to also how you present your fly in the water. You know if you, if you're not very good at presenting your fly properly, yeah that maybe that hundreds of you know a millimeter might make the difference. But if you've had years practice or you really do know you're presenting your fly the best possible way and all that, then maybe it's not as important. But you know, when I was younger I used to catch. I used to catch a sea run cutthroats on eight pound, whatever the brand was at that time. You know carbon, just the stuff you'd buy from Walmart.
Speaker 2:So at the end of the day I think it would be a hard one to even test. You know, if your one buddy was there and you were there, well, is there more fish where he's standing or more fish where you're standing? That's another thing. It would be a hard one to actually like full on tests. But I think if you're getting down to like four pound you know Walmart stuff versus you know six X or seven X. Yeah, like you said, could you feel the difference? Probably not. Could you see the difference? Maybe slightly, it's hard to say, but once again you're floating a thing through the water with a bead on it and a big hook coming off of it and the fish is still biting it. It's kind of one of those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and most instances I really feel like it's a silhouette that gets them. You know what I mean. I think I might have said that last time, but yeah, they just see the silhouette and they don't care so much. I don't think about the hook, or they wouldn't bite. You know which blows my mind sometimes, because it's something we'll catch with like bright gold hooks and stuff like that. You know what I mean. You'd think the fish would see that Well, and I use like this is a 5.5 mil bead.
Speaker 2:I don't know how well it'll show up on here, but you know I can see it good. Yeah, it's a big bead and then obviously we go down to quite a bit smaller and, yeah, during the winter, heavier flows, you need a bigger bead and stuff. But once again you got this massive bead, like you said, it's probably the silhouette, like oh, that looks right. And that's where your own thing comes in handy is because when they test the fly, you feel it so you can hook that fish, whereas if you had, you know, just a very long leader, you probably would miss that fish.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I use these, one for my cased caddis. They're probably hard to see. Oh yeah, it's not bad. Actually I get the light. Oh my gosh, that's a lot of light. Now it's like it's brown. Yeah, sand bead, yeah, and they are 4.5, so that's something that I would use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I've been. I think last time I was talking to you we chatted a little bit about you know, the size bead and matching it to the flow, versus what I would do a lot of the times was just have a big bead so I could get that let's call it a perfect drift in the water. But since then I've experimented a lot more with smaller beads and come to realize you can get down fairly easily, especially if you're using the right tip it, and then it looks a little bit more natural. If it's not the heaviest thing pulling it down, you know, if it's able to wiggle with the flow of the water and all that. So, yeah, there's a lot of little things that you know. You just got to keep testing it for yourself and something's really not working for you and you think it's the tip it, because you heard these two guys on Dead Drifter Society podcast talking about, you know, using cheaper tip it. Then go to the tip it you want, or if you're just used to using what you got or you know whatever.
Speaker 1:But at the end of the day, a lot of it comes from technique and presenting that fly, I think you know, probably really knowing the limits to the tip it because, like, you got to know, you know what it can do versus like, because when you go from four to two, I feel like that's way more of a jump than from six to four. You know what I mean. Yeah, and I don't know how to explain that because it would be the same poundage, but two is very light. It's kind of it's pretty hard. You know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, but if you get the fish under control, you're usually good to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've noticed with, like, streamer fishing is the one time that you know, just from my own experiences, I will kind of beef it up because that initial impact is a lot and then once you got the fish on, you know it's not that big of a deal. But I've definitely lost a few nice fish on streamers because I was trying to go lighter. And you know once again, if it's a streamer and they're chasing it, are they going to notice your line and your hook on it and stuff. So streamer fishing I don't stress as much, but definitely dry fly and yerrowing that tip it, whether it's, you know, your expensive store or a fly shop bought or if it's the cheaper Walmart stuff. Yeah, it's kind of hard to say but I don't know how much that really matters, as long as it's lighter and it's able to cut through the water, because that's pretty much the battle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just thinking to myself, like three rolls of Berkeley Vannish, if you got it in six or even eight, four and six pound, that's like $25 as to where like one roll of scientific anglers is going to be nearly that, you know what I mean. Yeah, it's almost going to be the same price for fluorocarbon and, like I'm saying, I really don't know if the hundreds make a difference. I really don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry, I'm still getting over cold, so I'm dying. At least you're getting over it.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and it was a lingering one, it was almost two weeks, but it like would go away and come back and go away. So, yeah, I kind of lost my train of thoughts. But no, it's someone like yourself that gets out quite a bit and has the time to kind of notice these things or to try new things and has the skills that can kind of prove yourself right or wrong. You know, I'd feel pretty confident in saying you're probably right with it If you got confidence. Though, like you've noticed, if you don't have confidence with something, you don't fish it as well, you don't fish it efficiently, and all these things so kind of like mentally plays a game. You're like, oh, it's definitely this, tip it.
Speaker 1:I went out with some buddies and we went to a place I had never been and everybody was getting skunked forever and finally I caught and I was like there are fish, but my buddy was joking Like there's not even fish here. You know what I mean? Yeah, you just got to keep, like I told him. I was like you got to fish, you got to figure out how to make what you have work. You know what I mean. If you have these flies, you got to figure out how to make that work. And they were trying to Euro really hard and finally I just realized that it wasn't going to work. So I set myself up for a dry dropper and caught. You know what I mean? We just needed to distance away because it's a small stream with clear, with really clear water.
Speaker 2:Thinking outside the box is a huge one To the engineering man. It's been a long time to get to that point where it's like, okay, this isn't working. And actually one of my good friends, ryan, who's been on the podcast a few times, he's, let's say he's notorious for thinking outside of the box, but I love watching him Euro, or I love watching him fish in general, because I'm like what are you doing there? What is that? And he's like, well, think about it, man, this bug does this. So I do it like this or this, or I put this on, or I saw this and all these things, and I'm like, yep, that's true. And then I'd try what he's doing and boom, there's a fish. I'm like I love that. So outside the box, and that's a good point too. It's just like you got what you got, especially if you're at the river.
Speaker 1:Yeah, In the river. You're not like, what are you going to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can't Uber fly time material and a vice to your set right then and there to work off them. So yeah, you better figure out how to make it work.
Speaker 1:I'm part of a fly time like vice collectors group on Facebook and this guy made one that was like portable. He has one of those OG I forget what they're called. They're like I think they're Richardson's, like a. It's like a box, it's like a metal box. It opens kind of like an accordion, and then he has this thing that allows him to like tie flies it's. It's incredible, it's a vice. That's super small. If I can get pictures of it, I'll send it to you. It's on Facebook, so I'm sure I'll find the picture and send it to you. Yeah, that is. And then I'm like for on the like, literally not like stream side, like literally in the stream.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you're on a boat and you're like shit, this isn't working. I've heard of people doing that for Chronomid fishing. They'll bring like all their threads, everything they need, and they're like sitting there on their boat and their buddy's like, oh yeah, you know, just for example, like orange Chronomid. And then you're like, oh, I don't have any orange Chronomids One second here and they like whip up a few and then they're in the fish.
Speaker 1:But yeah, dude, the PA, if you you can look this store. I'll all send you a link to the story. But the PA state record Brookie was a guy that he was fishing and he was catching a bunch of Brookies that day, but I forget there's some sort of what like white sulfur, white hat, some sort of white hatch and um, and he didn't have any of the flies and he had his tying stuff. He took part of his sock apart and supposedly tied a fly or a cream side and then caught it. That's cool, yeah, and it was like seven pounds. I don't know. They may get bigger where you live, because I know in parts of Canada they get huge. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't even well, we kind of have Brooke Trout on the island. I know there's a few lakes that have them due to stalking programs, as far as I know.
Speaker 1:You're super west, like. What state are you? Well, that would give me like a five. I would be right above Seattle. Oh, no doubt my dad was stationed in Fort Lewis. Okay, cool, yeah, like 12 years, so I spent time in Seattle and Washington and so on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like the mainland. There's Brooke Trout, for sure. And then we get into Alberta there's definitely Brooke Trout, and then we get over to the east side and we see plenty of Brooke Trout of size. Yeah, there's some big fish in Canada, far in between, hard to catch, but you can get them. Yeah, anything.
Speaker 1:Definitely Anything worse, though you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I've experienced Alberta. Alberta has some really big fish, really cool fish. They have a really cool fishery, for the Bow River is just an amazing system. I don't knock where I live. We got an amazing fishery out here, yeah, 12 months out of the year, so it's awesome. But of course, the grass is always greener on the other side and I always wanted to experience Alberta and I finally got to and, yeah, we're seeing some really nice fish. They get a lot of bugs, so things can grow big, and lots of nutrients dense systems. But what was kind of cool was the way we stream our fish out here versus how they stream our fish out there and they can use two flies. We can't in BC, that's one fly, only one hook barbless whereas in Alberta, I think, you can use barbs, it doesn't matter, and then you can use two. I think you can even use three flies.
Speaker 1:No one quote me on that, but yeah, I think that's how it is here too, but I know some place I went in West Virginia was exactly what you're saying, like they said not to even carry barbed flies on you. Yeah, you should have a barbless box. And I was like, okay, geez, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got.
Speaker 2:I got checked recently by fisheries. They rolled up to me and I don't know why it's like I get nervous when I see fisheries, even though I already know I got my license, I know I check the rags, I know what what I'm doing is is legal. But when I see them I'm always like, oh, you know. And then he's like let me check your, your, your fly that you got on, and I like I passed it to him and I looked at it and it was a classic, classic fly, so like that, and it's like a pretty big barb that would be on it that you have to crush down. Sometimes when you crush them the barb cracks or breaks off.
Speaker 2:So I've started kind of filing down that part. So it's like smooth, but you know it's not perfectly smooth at times and I was kind of nervous, to be honest, just like I don't know. In that moment I was like second guessing myself and he was like looking at it and kind of twirling it. And then he like looked up and he's like you tie your own flies and I was like, yeah, he's like it's really nice. I was like thank you, thank you, sir.
Speaker 1:Dude, yeah, I think it's just like the implication that someone with authority is coming and you. They wouldn't be coming to you unless you. They thought you were doing something wrong or could be possibly not insinuating that you are. But but you know what I mean? It's kind of like the intimidation you could have left here with fish, no fish or a ticket.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing too is, like you know, having my assistant guide license. If I do something illegal in the fishing realm, whether it's hunting or fishing, yeah, you can't guide anymore. That, yeah dramatically. So you know that plays in my head. But they were super chill once they checked us out. We talked for another like 10, 20 minutes or so, but in that moment when I saw them walking, I was like, oh shit, here we go, you know, but yeah, I, you know, it's just like the police when they pull you over, even though you, you know, maybe you're sped or you just passed a stop sign a little quicker than you should have been and come to a complete stop, you're still like heart's pounding and you're like, oh geez, what's going to happen here? So yeah, it's only in BC, I guess like the rest of BC, but on the island. That's only the fourth time I've ever been checked on the island in my whole fishing career, which is kind of crazy. But we just don't have the funding to have a ton of officers everywhere, right?
Speaker 1:Definitely I feel like we're in the same boat and I feel like I hope I'm not trying to put myself on any sort of radar, but I have. I have been fishing in Pennsylvania now again for 12 years and I've never been stopped here, so maybe it's just random luck or something, but I feel like it's the right place, like they're looking for places that are heavily stopped, where people are committing fish crimes, versus someplace like where I would fish, where I'd go somewhere where it was not pressured or there's a probability of wild fish, versus you know what I mean stocked fish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's what we see Like. I guess once it was opening day for the river for trout, or I guess it was an opening day for the trout, but it was. Oh, one of the sections of the river that you weren't allowed to fish in was now opened, so it was that day. And then the other three time have been steelhead, which you know.
Speaker 2:If you've heard any steelhead stuff out from the West side, steelhead numbers aren't, you know, growing per se, so that's where they're like okay, are people poaching? And I was in an area where my friend has told me that he's definitely seen a lot of like residue of poaching other steelhead bodies or row sacks which people fish for steelhead with row like eggs, and when they, when they shouldn't be like there's a bait band on the river or there's pretty much a bait band all across the island, as far as I know, for steelhead because they're all wild. So those spots get hit by the fish officers, the fishery officers, and which is really good. Obviously I'm in major support to that. But yeah, I wasn't a poacher that day, so I was fine. But if you watch out, yeah, there's notable differences.
Speaker 1:If you look at the places that you fish, you know, by fishing only sections probably going to be a lot cleaner not dissing anyone on like all types of fishing, but like places that are stocked. You're going to see, you know lots of evidence of bait, like you're saying. We, where I live, you can use like basically any bait. So I don't, I don't really know because I don't fish like that. I just know like when I used to fish with my buddy we used to catch catfish and the easiest way to catch him was with little fish that we had caught. You know what I mean. Yeah, I would dry fly fish in this little part of the lake and catch us like so many bluegill and just pan fish and then we would go catfish with them. Yeah, but, but I don't think that's a leak, like you can get worms at any gas station and stuff like that, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know for our rivers.
Speaker 1:So my daughter didn't believe me when we went to the store. I was like there's worms in here and she's like no way. And I opened it and she was like oh my gosh. And I was like look how many they have. They have a hundred containers, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I used to fish worms hard when I was younger for for trout in the lakes and they're effective. You want to catch a fish Absolutely A lot to use worms. Use a worm, You'll catch a fish.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean that's like such a protein pack meal, like that. They don't have to. You know what I mean. Think of how many bugs a worm would? I don't know. I'm going to catch a worm and weigh it and I'll tell you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Exactly, that's something. I've never caught a worm, Even if, like you know, in that area they would never see worms. That worm's still looking real good and I guess it could look like a leech. It could look like you know something just worth testing.
Speaker 1:But yeah I, something that they don't even have to really chew. You know what I mean 100%, just suck it in.
Speaker 2:It's like a yeah yeah, yeah. Well, I know that it's getting a little late for you so we can wrap it up in a little bit, but I'm kind of curious, if you know, it's been a year since you've been kind of documenting bugs and stuff. Has there been any kind of cool finds or anything, new techniques that you found for tying flies or anything that pops into your mind in that realm of things?
Speaker 1:Just scaling down my flies a lot to match the bugs better. You know what I mean and I really think that's the key to it, because one of my friends he had fished his spring one time and he's like, oh, what do I got to use? And I was like you got to use this, this, and I gave him one. He was a third cast. He caught a fish. You know what I mean. As to where, the other day he spent the whole day there and caught one fish, you know. So I feel like matching the hatch and not just like a little bit. You got to match it as much as possible. You know what I mean. Yeah, but I haven't found anything too crazy. I would love to you know what I mean, like fish or something cool like that, but yeah, nothing too crazy.
Speaker 2:I didn't do a ton of them. But last year after we talked you're talking about how you used eyelash, like fake eyelashes for the tails of your nymphs and I tied some of those just to see how that material worked. And I was like this is a sweet material for the tails because it sticks out separate Even in the water. It still kind of wants to stay away from each other. It doesn't just like glue to itself, it stays a little bit more apart, spread apart. You know, give or take flow.
Speaker 2:But yeah, scaling down the flies, that was a big thing and even for my egg patterns which not everyone likes to fish eggs but I scale they used to be like you know, massive grapes on a hook and then someone showed me some salmon eggs and was like you got a time smaller and so I did so and that was that was more effective. But yeah, same with the nymphs, like, even if my nymph, even if I use the same hook, because sometimes when you get down sizes of hooks, the gap between the hook point and the actual shank of the the, the the hook, gets too small, then you lose big fish. So even if I'm using kind of a bigger sized hook, I'll just still tie the body like even smaller on that shank. Do you experience that as well?
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. I mean, I've seen people experiment with what you're saying to like tie the same fly but on different hooks you know what I mean, and just to see how it it would go. I kind of lost my train of thought now too.
Speaker 2:It's late, but it's the issue. We don't get, we're not. We're not making money for this, so we don't. We can't make time during the day when our brains are functional. We've got to use it after our whole day where kids are in bed and we've worked the day.
Speaker 1:I thought about like four things, since you were saying something, though. But one of the things is the manufacturer that was making the eyelashes of a used seized production on the brown ones, so there's only like black ones and shiny ones left. So I have actually resorted back to the old faithful. You know what I mean. But if you can get yourself brown eyelashes somewhere which I'm sure is possible, and somebody knows I was getting them from the dollar store. So it was like I can get a hundred for a dollar, you know what I mean. And then I tied so many flies I still have a ton of flies with that, that tail material. But I agree with you, it doesn't want to stick together and, like as in, tail can get damaged. But that type of material doesn't want to wrinkle, it doesn't really want to like fold, it wants to just be out like, like, like, you know, like a tail of a little west side over here, yeah, yeah, the tail like no man.
Speaker 2:Well, and you could think about it, women wouldn't wear those eyelashes if they just crinkled and folded and did all this crazy stuff. So no, it's a good little substitute. I'm going to check around now. I didn't really continue. I haven't been tying a ton of flies or a ton of nymphs, but I need to beef up my boxes coming up because I got my guide season coming, so I'm going to now check out some dollar stores. Maybe Canadian dollar stores still have it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know if they like. If the production of eyelashes follows, it must follow the trend. Right now, the trend is black, because they have like a hundred styles of black. You know what I mean, and that's pretty much it.
Speaker 2:I didn't even know. You could have a hundred styles of black, but probably.
Speaker 1:Oh, like, there's different types of them, like the one that I was getting and using. They had between four and five fibers per eyelash piece, and then there's other ones that are like totally together and connected. Yeah, those are the more costly version. So if you go to the dollar store, they have one that you literally have to build yourself, and it's like you know what I mean You'd have to put 20 individual ones to do your one eye. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:There's probably a female listening to us talk about fake eyelashes right now. Just you know what I mean. Just loosen herself, Like these guys don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 1:I heard my girlfriend laughing earlier because I was talking about the how they ceased production. Because I was so dead set. I was like, oh, the dollar store is always going to have these, because every dollar store I go to has them. So I was giving them away to people when I could, and then I would go to a fly tying night the other week and I was like dude, where's my tails? And I realized I didn't have them. And then I went to like five different dollar stores, which isn't too hard because for whatever reason in America they're like blowing up everywhere right now and, um, yeah there. So, yeah, it was just really disappointing. All I can ever find now is the black ones instead of the brown.
Speaker 2:We can use this podcast potentially to get enough anglers to message this company and be like whoa, whoa, whoa, bring back the eyelashes. I won't tell them why, but yeah.
Speaker 1:So you're going to laugh at this. On eBay I found a box of a dozen. They said so. I bought them and it was only like 20 books and then it was like a week and finally I got my money back and then the seller sent me a message saying that they thought they had a dozen more, but they're all out.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I was like no.
Speaker 2:Oh man, yeah, that is rough, that is rough, definitely so. Yeah, well, brandon, I think we covered quite a bit today. I know it's a little late for you and I got to get up super early as well, so we'll wrap it up there. But yeah, it's always. It's always a pleasure having you on. For sure I had a good time talking to you. Yeah, man, I would. Yeah, I've been also doing some like fly tying things and potentially when I get this new program and my video is a little bit clearer because right now, like, my camera can record at 1080p but zoom only can record at 720. Yeah, so when I get that new program and then iPhones or whatever phone you're using has way better camera than, or has like at least 1080p yeah, but maybe we can do a fly tying kind of one and whip out a couple of a couple of bugs and kind of talk about portions and stuff. That would be a pretty cool episode, I think.
Speaker 1:For sure. I would like that I can show techniques to you know what I mean. Like, oh, this is where I would do this because, like, a lot of people do things differently and it affects the fly. You know what I mean. It's ultimately going to create drag, or, you know, maybe take away drag when you need a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've been learning a lot about that as well, and it's the best part about fly fishing is, no matter how good you get, there's always something you can improve on, and the more knowledge of you can try something new Like, oh man, I spent a lot of time messing around with dry dropper the past season and I had a lot of fun and I caught a lot of fish as to where I didn't think I would before. But sometimes it gives you a stealth approach because you're further away from the target you know what I mean, rather than closer. But yeah, like we were talking before, it's kind of like field engineering you have to go on your feet where you're at with what you got and make it work. If you can keep doing that, if you can successfully do that, you're on the right path. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:That was my one buddy today. He's like how do we get better? And I was like just what I did was like three years, right now, on everything and the temperature, the flies, everything, and I went every time I could and count how many fish I caught and everything and it just helped me learn a lot what to expect. And then I, you know, once I got the patterns down the knife and just be like, oh, right now, here would be good to fish, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, I think I think when that comes time to do another episode with you, we might make that one a bit of a longer one so we can do some chatting and some tie flying, some tie flying, some fly tying that tiredness setting in. But yeah, I think that would make a really cool episode. And technique when you're tying flies is huge. I mean, you know, only recently I've really started playing down the size thread that I'm using just to create better proportions and not add so much bulk, and that's improved my fly tying that much more than it was prior. So, yeah, technique and seeing what other people do is a huge thing. So, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's super fun, man Like proportions, though I can't emphasize that enough. You know what I mean. Catch them, bulge them, bring them home as long as it's illegal where you're doing it, and you know, just try to mimic them as much as you can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. Well, man. Well, thanks again, brun, for coming on and sharing your knowledge with me and, yeah, till next time. Yeah, thanks for having me dude. Well, man, you have a good night. You too, bye.