Dead Drifters Society: A fly fishing podcast
Design, Test and Selling Flies. A Day in the Life of Court Bailey
As I sat hunched over my vise, coaxing my three boys to partake in the delicate art of fly tying, the symphony of concentration and laughter filled the room—it's these moments that encapsulate the joy and chaos of sharing my love for fly fishing with family. Courtney Bailey, a seasoned angler, joins me to discuss not only the profound community impact of the sport but also the magical ways it strengthens familial bonds. We unravel the threads of how fly tying offers flexibility and income to mothers at home, and we reminisce about the excitement of nurturing a budding passion for the sport in our little ones, highlighting the Echo Gecko rod as a youngster-friendly favorite that even adults won't be able to resist casting.
Within the storied walls of Round Rocks Flies, once Kahn's Trout Shop, lies a tale of evolution and dedication to the craft of fly production. Our conversation takes an intimate look at the journey from retail to becoming a wholesaler for heavy hitters like Sportsman's Warehouse, revealing the meticulous design and quality control that goes into over 1200 fly patterns. From a curious student looking for easy college credit to managing operations, we celebrate the unsung heroes of the fly tying world, whose hands weave the intricate patterns that call to trout nationwide.
Closing our episode, we cast off with a collection of fishing tales that span the serene shores of British Columbia to the unexpected catches in the Puget Sound. We tackle the art of adapting strategies to ever-changing weather conditions and river flows, sharing tips that could transform a challenging day on the river into a story worth telling. Through laughs and shared experiences, Courtney and I invite you to embrace the camaraderie of the angling community and join the adventure, with a final nod to Courtney's Instagram @fly_cache, where his angling escapades continue to inspire and captivate.
https://www.instagram.com/fly_cache?igsh=cXhhbnRtMWg5ZXp2
As I sat hunched over my vise, coaxing my three boys to partake in the delicate art of fly tying, the symphony of concentration and laughter filled the room—it's these moments that encapsulate the joy and chaos of sharing my love for fly fishing with family. Courtney Bailey, a seasoned angler, joins me to discuss not only the profound community impact of the sport but also the magical ways it strengthens familial bonds. We unravel the threads of how fly tying offers flexibility and income to mothers at home, and we reminisce about the excitement of nurturing a budding passion for the sport in our little ones, highlighting the Echo Gecko rod as a youngster-friendly favorite that even adults won't be able to resist casting.
Within the storied walls of Round Rocks Flies, once Kahn's Trout Shop, lies a tale of evolution and dedication to the craft of fly production. Our conversation takes an intimate look at the journey from retail to becoming a wholesaler for heavy hitters like Sportsman's Warehouse, revealing the meticulous design and quality control that goes into over 1200 fly patterns. From a curious student looking for easy college credit to managing operations, we celebrate the unsung heroes of the fly tying world, whose hands weave the intricate patterns that call to trout nationwide.
Closing our episode, we cast off with a collection of fishing tales that span the serene shores of British Columbia to the unexpected catches in the Puget Sound. We tackle the art of adapting strategies to ever-changing weather conditions and river flows, sharing tips that could transform a challenging day on the river into a story worth telling. Through laughs and shared experiences, Courtney and I invite you to embrace the camaraderie of the angling community and join the adventure, with a final nod to Courtney's Instagram @fly_cache, where his angling escapades continue to inspire and captivate.
https://www.instagram.com/fly_cache?igsh=cXhhbnRtMWg5ZXp2
Yeah, kind of. I know the main factory that I deal with. It's a lot of. I think it's kind of cool because it's an opportunity for them to have employment over there, and it's a lot of moms that are working that otherwise wouldn't have a job. They're able to actually do it from home, which is really cool, so they don't have to travel too far, and so I think for the most part that factory they are tying the fly from start to finish, but I do know of some where they yeah, they kind of do that production line style welcome back dead drifter.
Speaker 2:On this episode we sit down with courtney bailey. We chat about slanging, flies in the fly fishing industry and, of course, how he got into fly fishing and where it all started for him. So, uh, it's definitely a good episode. I enjoyed chatting with court and, uh, yeah, I will see you down at the end. Welcome to the podcast, court. How's it going?
Speaker 1:awesome doing good. Thanks for having me yeah, right on, man.
Speaker 2:well, thanks for coming on. I'm glad it worked out pretty quick there, so that's nice. That was like a week turnover, not even yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's easy when I don't have anything going on at night.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, well, and that's pretty much the only time I can figure out to do this. You said you have three boys.
Speaker 1:Yep, three boys. How's that? It's a lot of fun actually. So they're right in the middle of baseball sports. They love to fish too. I'm trying to get them into fly tying, and so it's a lot of fun, but it's definitely a lot of busy work. So it's awesome. What's their ages?
Speaker 2:I got 11, 8, and 6. Oh yeah, so that's a lot of energy right there. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, lots of fighting, lots of fighting. Yeah, boys will be boys. Yep, yeah, and when you said you were getting them into fly tying is it? How's that going?
Speaker 1:It's actually, you know, it's pretty easy. They almost get to the point where I'm like, oh, I got to have you not tie flies with me so I can tie some. They really love it. So every time I get home from work they're just like dad, can we tie a fly? And it's just so. It's awesome, it's fun to get them into it and see them learning and growing.
Speaker 2:But they don't want anything to do with lessons. They just want to put whatever they can on a hook. So that's kind of where they're at right now. Yeah, I, uh, I try to get my son to to come down when I'm needing to do a little extra computer work or get some flies done for guiding, and so I'll have him come down here and try to bang out a bunch. But it always turns into him sitting on my lap like we're going to do this, and then I'll like, okay, and he'll be like let's use deer hair, and I'll like put it on, and then he'll just cut it, hack it down and I'm just like sitting there, like this is, this is tough. I'm a bit of a like I don't tie perfect perfection, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist, like seeing someone hack up deer yeah, even though he's four, yes, kind of hits in a weird spot, it's, it's painful.
Speaker 1:I have a little box. I have a little box that they can pull like random crap from. That I've bought from you know shops over the years. I just never tie with like that's your box, whatever you want out of there you can use, and they they come up with some pretty crazy stuff. It's pretty funny. But yeah, in the same way I'm just kind of like I'm a technique kind of rule follower and I'm like that tail's got to be a certain length, it's like a mile long. And I'm like tail's got to be a certain length, it's like a mile long. And I'm like no, that's not right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you think it'll work, of course, oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, 100% every time, every time. What is it? 60% of the time every time? Yep, exactly, yeah, man no, and it's good to get them into it like that. I mean, I kind of like I don't regret any of my life, but I definitely wish I would have gone into fly fishing way earlier. So I feel like our kids are pretty lucky. I mean it might not be the.
Speaker 2:You know they might not get addicted like we are, but yeah, yeah, give them a shot, yeah, exactly. But yeah, yeah, give them a shot, yeah, exactly. And then when they do get addicted, it's like hopefully they're out of our pocket and working for their exactly, yeah, yeah I. I bought the echo gecko rod. Have you seen that one?
Speaker 1:I have seen that one. No, I don't have it, but I've, I've actually cast one. I actually like it quite a bit.
Speaker 2:I like it quite a bit. That's where I was leading into. Yeah, I was casting it for fun the other day. My son took like three casts and he was like, okay, you do it now. And then he went and did something else. But I was thinking, like a dry fly rod, that thing would be pretty sweet. Yeah, it would be pretty sweet. Yeah, it'd be perfect. Yeah, even like a I don't know. It feels like a glass rod, it's, it's, it's fun, it's fun. So I'm sure fighting a fish on it would be real good too, but apparently they're indestructible yeah they, I know.
Speaker 1:I just I just played around with one one day and I was, gee, this would be a perfect little creek rod. It'd be a great little rod, obviously for little hands, so it'd be good for the boys.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it'd be a good rod. Yeah, man Court, where are you located? I didn't really go over that one.
Speaker 1:So I'm in northern Utah, so Logan, utah is kind of my home base. So Utah State University, right there. I've grown up here my whole life. Um, moved away for a little bit down to salt Lake. Uh, when I first graduated that got a job back up here and I just was like, well, definitely, work and live where I grew up, that'd be awesome. So I stayed back up here. Um, um, yeah, so it's just worked out perfect. So I'll get to sit here and fish the rivers I grew up on and it's awesome yeah, that's pretty sweet.
Speaker 2:How did uh, how did the whole fishing thing start for you?
Speaker 1:so I grew up fishing, um, you know, just kind of the traditional way that I think most people start just dunking a worm power bait, whatever. My dad would take us out and, um, you know, about elementary school, fifth, sixth grade, I, me and my buddies, we love to fish. We go and we could ride our bikes down to the little bear river which we have run through our valley and we could mean we just fish our guts out all summer during summer break and you know spinners and worms or whatever, and just fishing that little river. So much I got into it. And then my, my older brother, he bought a fly rod, took some casting lessons and I was kind of intrigued by that and I was probably about 12 or 13 at the time and he didn't really stick with it as much and so I just kind of started playing around with his rod, you know, in the backyard, casting and doing whatever I could, and that was back before YouTube and all that.
Speaker 1:So I really kind of just taught myself and just monkeyed around with it and, yeah, I went down to that same river where we grew up fishing as kids and I just remember I had no idea what a fly was and how to even cast or how to fish it.
Speaker 1:So I was using a little bead zug bug, a little nymph, and I just cast it downstream and I was basically just reeling it in like a spinner, just kind of thinking like, oh, we'll see if this works. And I caught a fish and I was like all right, right, sweet, my first fish on a fly rod. So it was a little bead zug bug and from there I was pretty addicted to it. I really wanted to get into it and luckily I had some good friends of my dad who I found out later that they like to fish, fly fish, and so one of the guys took me and kind of helped me, show me how to do that and actually fish dry flies and that. So I've been fly fishing since, you know, pretty heavily since I was 14. I'm 37 now, so over 20 years just dedicated to it and love it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's pretty sweet too. It's interesting. Does your brother still uh, dabble in it, or is?
Speaker 1:is he? No, he went on to do more upland game hunting. That's his big thing. He loves to travel and do upland game hunting and that Once in a while we'll take him. But yeah, so I'm really the only one in my family that fishes, so everybody else kind of went their own ways and big game hunter, construction worker, you know all that kind of stuff. So I stuck with the fishing side yeah, and what?
Speaker 1:do you do for work? So I work for round rocks flies actually. So I actually work in the fly tying industry. We're a round rocks flies is a wholesale fly company so we sell to shops, to sporting goods stores, so we're we're, I'm dealing with flies every day of my life and it's a dream job for me. I love it. It's not what I went to school for, but it just kind of happened upon me and I just wanted to do it. I've always wanted to work in the industry some way and that job presented itself and I ran with it and I've loved it ever since. So I've been doing that for maybe six years.
Speaker 2:In December so I'm working on my sixth year, yeah that's pretty sweet, and so is it mostly online and then to shops, or is it an actual storefront as well?
Speaker 1:So we don't have a storefront. So my boss, steve so funny story. So his dad started the shop after he coached at Utah State as a head coach of their basketball team there at Utah State University he got fired from being the head coach and he goes on and says well, I'm going to start a fly shop. So he started Kahn's Trout Shop is what it was called and long story short, it kind of turned into Round Rocks Flies. It was an actual fly shop for a time and then he was approached by some guys kind of down south to start tying flies for them. So like Smith and Edwards was kind of a box store I mean it's just one location there in Utah back in the 90s. They have two now. So we actually started making flies for them. I say we, they started making flies for them back in the mid-90s and then we actually started doing all the flies for all the sportsman's warehouses in the country as well. So that's kind of where they said, okay, it's a fly shop thing, we're getting way too busy with the wholesale side, so they closed the doors on the fly shop thing. We're getting way too busy with the wholesale side, so they closed the doors on the fly shop. Someone else took over the fly shop and they stepped away and started doing the wholesale side and ever since then they've just been working on, you know, just your basic. You know kind of standard traditional patterns from dry flies and imps and sugar patterns.
Speaker 1:And then I, uh, when I was going to school, um, I ran into Steve, who is now the owner of Con's Son, who now owns Round Rocks Flies. Um, I took his fly tying classes just because I did easy credit and I just loved to tie flies anyway. So I just all this tie flies every Wednesday night for six weeks, you know. So I did that and I guess I stuck around long enough. He was just like, hey, man, do you want to do you want a job? I was like, yeah, sure, absolutely. So I was pulling orders in college for him.
Speaker 1:I graduated with a social work degree, so I actually worked with kids, um, for about six years after I graduated. And then I just randomly bumped into him at a Utah state football game and he's just like, hey, I need you to. If you can come help me, I'm going to buy the business from my dad and start working it and I need you to come on and run the production side of all of our flies and I was like, sign me up so pretty easy. I left the other job and I was gung-ho about this. So yeah, I've been doing that. So my main role is just the production of all of our flies and, you know, quality control and helping design new patterns and that's kind of where I'm in with kind of like the Euro things I really love to Euro. Nymph and small streamers is my game.
Speaker 2:Okay, I love it. I got things. I've tied a flyer too in my life, um, so a lot of the wholesalers not a lot because there hasn't been a lot, but the ones I've talked to, um, tend to order them from, like, other countries. Are you actually tying them in-house?
Speaker 1:no, that's just the same way as all the other wholesalers. So, like your montana flyer on plaza, they're all tied overseas, and's just the same way as all the other wholesalers. So, like your Montana Flyer, they're all tied overseas and that's the same as ours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I got a buddy currently who decided to tie some nymphs and sell them. And then we were breaking down the math and I was like man, you'd have to freaking tie If you wanted to make it a business. It's not impossible, it's just. You would just be sitting there like he's like, man, I gotta tie 60 of these nymphs. And I was like imagine how many nymphs you'd have to do to get, like, a full paycheck. Yeah, it's, it's a lot of work. Yeah, um, have you been overseas? Have you ever seen the side, the other side, where they tied and stuff, or how? How in contact are you with them? I guess?
Speaker 1:I'm I'm very in contact with them and I haven't been there physically, um, I've seen it just through video and through pictures. But with technology these days I can, I can hop on zoom and I can sit down basically with the tires there and go over quality control stuff and show them how to tie and specific things that I want to see in those flies. So with that it's gotten a lot easier for us. We don't have to live over there Not that I wouldn't want to go over there to see it, I actually would. We've actually got it.
Speaker 2:Sorry, where is it that they're?
Speaker 1:tying. We've got a couple different factories. We've got factories in Thailand and Sri Lanka and in Kenya as well. Kenya, that's All from all of them. Yeah, kenya is kind of the big one right now, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then, how many like fly patterns do you have? Because if you have three different locations, you're pulling them from you, must, you must be gosh? There's more than 10, less than a million? Yeah, for sure. And if the tools.
Speaker 1:I mean we, we probably got I'm just ballpark and we probably got close to 1200 fly patterns that we make something like that.
Speaker 2:I could be short, but yeah, I last year went guiding in cranbrook, british columbia I don't know if you know where that is, but long story short. Um, before I was leaving I started like tying some dry flies and I messaged the guide that I was heading up there with and I was, and, like you guys said, there's like a lot of flies that I'll need. I'm trying to tie as many as I can, but these dry flies take forever. And he was like, oh, I don't try, I don't tie any of my dries. He's like I'd be having them. Yeah, it's like if there's maybe a few that he'll kind of dabble in because there's something specific he wants. But you that he'll kind of dabble in because there's something specific he wants, but yeah, so I that was like actually one of my first introductions to really buying flies and I had a bit.
Speaker 2:I have a discount at the shop and I still ended up spending like twelve hundred dollars on on flies. So yeah, yeah, and that that didn't even. Well, it's the boxes I get, the ones that have the double size that clamp together or whatever. Yeah, but yeah, and then obviously people losing flies or they eventually break down. But I myself learned a little bit about the quality control. You can kind of see it when you look at a fly. If you look at at like five or ten of them all the same and you kind of look, you can be like, okay, this one has the right size hackle I want. Yeah, I learned to be a little picky within, you know, buying my flies because I, oh I was taught to to pay attention to a few things. But yeah, um, are you guys sending over your your hooks and beads that you want used and all that?
Speaker 1:Or are they getting them? Yeah, so one of my main things is the material side of it. So I'm kind of over a lot of the purchasing of all that raw material and then getting it all collected. We ship it to the factory with instruction, detailed instruction on how it should look, how the fly should be tied, and they send them back from there. I usually have them send me photos and video of how the flies look before they ship and then when they get back. I just did this today. I just had a shipment come in and spent pretty much all day just quality control and same thing. We're getting zebra midges back and I'm counting wire wraps and making sure that they're close enough together, not too far apart, and so, yeah, it's just, I want that fly to look and feel good when you put it in your box, yeah, and then the hooks that you're, you're, are you sending the hooks as well?
Speaker 2:So you're, you said material for sure. So you're, you said material for sure, so you're sending everything. It's like here's the package, that's right. Yeah, built, yeah, yep, how many, like what's, I guess it's so depends, but like, what's an average order, like, are we talking thousand flies or more?
Speaker 1:so for for us like so for what I said over there. Yeah, just when I, when I do, when I typically do a shipment to go to any one of those four factories four or five of them, and I'm looking usually somewhere between 50 to 100 000 flies. Oh wow, so it's a mass scale yeah, I'm like.
Speaker 2:I've heard that they kind of do it in segments where one person will have a vise, he'll do the wire wrap, pass the vise, next vise comes down, he wraps the wire. So yeah, very much a production line with a bunch of tires. I guess one person for each step in theory, yeah, kind of I know the main factory that I deal with.
Speaker 1:I it's a lot of. I think it's kind of cool because it's a, it's an opportunity for them to have employment over there, and it's a lot of moms that are working that otherwise wouldn't have a job. They're able to actually do it from home, which is really cool, um, so they don't have to travel too far, and so I think for the most part that factory they are tying the fly from start to finish, but I do know of some where they yeah, they kind of do that production line style yeah, I do that for certain flies where I tie, like, actually, this is a good one, this is a stone fly or so, yeah, b stone fly, it just needs something and and a few other little things that I like to add to it.
Speaker 2:Um, I definitely find that tying and like, like I set down how many beads and hooks I'm using. I'm like, okay, yep, I tie 15 and I don't stop. If I'm'm doing it like this, I'll tie all the 15 with the legs and then the next day I'll do all 15 with the, with the uh, dubbing and whatnot. Just to kind of I think it speeds it up. It's hard to really judge it, but I think it does, because you get so used to doing the same thing that you're spacing and everything gets like pretty on cue, yep yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:I think that's the main thing, because I do that a lot too when I'm doing like my production time for myself is it keeps them consistent too, keeps all your flies very consistent, uh, so you almost get down to the thread wrap. You know how many wraps you've done on that fly, and then you can pick them up tomorrow and finish them or whatever is that something I I'd never worry about my thread or no?
Speaker 2:my thread wraps maybe, but uh, my actual ribbing, I guess maybe a chronomid I would be a little more consistent on, but basically everything else it's like wrap it up. Do you find yourself pretty consistent with the same?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't get too nitpicky with it, unless it's like like a wire body nymph, like a copper. John, I'm tying, like you said, like a chronomid, where I want a very specific spacing between those wire wraps. I don't, I don't worry too much about it otherwise, but yeah, I don't, I don't get too big I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think it's like in our brain as well or you know, everyone says it, but if you're fishing with confidence, you'll probably catch fish. And it's funny, kind of relating back to when you were young and like reeling up your, your nymph, and getting a fish. You tried to recreate that it probably would never work again. You know what I mean? I would have zero confidence in it. Yeah, zero confidence. It's so funny.
Speaker 2:Like even we're out over the weekend and my buddy was just like ripping off his line from his spay rod. It was just a little four-way trout spay and his fly was in the water and he was like, dude, while I was ripping it off, I had a trout grabbing it and then when I actually do my cast and it's out there swinging around, nothing. I was like isn't that so weird? Like you try so hard, nothing, yeah, just throw it in. All of a sudden you go to fish yep, yeah. So what's your uh? Yep, yeah. So what's your season? Utah, right? Yep, yeah. What's your season like out in Utah, and what species do we see around there? So we can fish all year.
Speaker 1:There's no closures or anything as far as rivers or lakes go, other than you get ice. So you end up ice fishing if you're into that, but river-wise you can open it. It's open all year. I guess there are certain areas where a lot of the native cutthroats they'll close those sections. So, like our certain sections of the river that I fish on the Logan River are closed until like the second weekend of July to help with the cutthroat spawn. So you're not fishing that. But the whole river is not closed to certain areas and that can be, I guess, kind of spotty throughout utah, but for the most part, um, it's, it's cutthroat, it's browns, and then our dwr likes to stock a lot of rainbows, so we have a love affair with little eight-inch rainbows. So they're fun. Brown food, yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2:Yes, I don't know. Have you ever seen Parks and Recs? Uh-huh, ron Swanson. Oh yeah, just imagine him being like. That's what my food eats, you know? Yeah, exactly yeah, just these little dinkers, yeah, well, and those are three great species to have around. I'd say what's your favorite species there?
Speaker 1:I love brown trout. I'll be honest. I know I love catching a native cutthroat. They're super cool, they're pretty, but man, there's nothing better than a good, healthy brown. They're my favorite.
Speaker 2:There's something about it, man. It's crazy to me because I love brown trout, so nothing against them, yeah, but in a lot of areas they've been introduced, so they're kind of like a non-resident. Yep, people love them. Yep, they don't necessarily fight the hardest, they look the coolest or yeah, they're up there in that, that looking um, but I think it has to do with, like, the shoulders they get. You know, they just look mean, they look badass. Yeah, you catch a rainbow, that's, you know, 20, 24 inches, anywhere in that range, and you're like having a crazy battle. It's like a mini steelhead. It's awesome, but if it was a brown I'm much happier yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know what it is, because I've caught, had a lot of those juiced up rainbows that are just super pretty big red stripe and I'm just like for a minute I thought it was a brown. There's a little bit of disappointment. You're just like, yeah, oh man, yeah I caught a fish that counts right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny because, like, I see it on on my raft all the time when I have guests on and they're like what's? It's a brown, it's a brown, and I'm like it's a and I'm like it's a rainbow, and they're like, oh, I'm like it's still, yeah, it's still good. But then I do that as well. I'm like, oh, my God, that's a rainbow, darn, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's funny. Um, I do. I do see how it. You know, in our home water they weren't there, they were introduced, yet it's like they're, it's like they're protected. Yeah, I don't know, they got this special moment around them where everyone's just down. But yeah, they're in it and they're an aggressive fish. Like when they do decide to chase something or you know you are nymphing or whatever it's always just a dead stop and like a solid fish, which is nice. What's your? I know you said you really like Euroing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, I probably do that the most and I got into that, you know, four or five years ago I was probably been longer than that now I can't remember but I I hit that pretty hard. A buddy of mine got me into it and I just man, it was um, it was just super fun to do, just tightlining it and feeling that connection, like soon that fish hits you. You know, oftentimes you can feel that bite and I just I just love that um, whereas like indicator fishing, you just don't, you don't get that feel most of the time. You see the indicator go down, it's fun, but I just like that that feel of that fish just grabbing that nymph and you just have that instant connection to it. But I like that.
Speaker 1:I do like to streamer fish. I like to fish a lot of smaller streamers, just because I think mostly part of that is I don't have access to a big river. Our streams are pretty small in this valley that I live, so they're not. I never found the need for a big articulated streamer in them and so I've kind of geared my flight sign towards that um, but I just have found so much luck with small streamers and even when I do go to a big river still having luck on just like a single hook. You know, two to three inch streamer has been really good too, so I'm just kind of stuck with it and, um, yeah, that's my. Probably my second favorite is just streamer fishing and the euro nipping is definitely by far what I do 90 of the time yeah, yeah, it's um, it's something I've been dabbling with more and more is streamer fishing over the last few years.
Speaker 2:Kind of a late start to it. My river, like, yeah, I guess small streamers are still possible from shore, but on average I'd say like if you're trying to catch fish on streamers, you're probably needing a raft of some sort yeah, at least two men. So it makes it challenging. So it wasn't until I got my three men and started kind of I mean, I fish with a few other people now that can row. Uh, it's actually because when you get a, when you get a raft, you're not the one.
Speaker 1:You're not fishing.
Speaker 2:You're not fishing the whole time. You'd think you would be, but then reality is you aren't. So you've got to have friends that either already know what they're doing or be willing to teach your friends. Yeah, but yeah, so I've been getting more done on that, Do you find? Because actually, what interests me is that I've been fishing smaller streamers and getting more rainbows. Yeah, Because the big streamers, I would say almost 99.9% of the time we don't get rainbows. Our rainbows don't grow really past the 20. 22's a very good rainbow and that's usually when they start to eat bigger streamers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. You know it's interesting. You say that because we took a trip down the Green River here in Eadshaugh and the A section, super popular stretcher river, and I was fishing this little I mean, this is about the size of it, not the color, but just something just like that. This is basically a size six, you know, standard little streamer hook and I had that with like a little cone head on it and it was an olive color with kind of a brighter underbelly.
Speaker 1:And you say that and, thinking back, I caught a lot of rainbows on that and there's a good, healthy mix of rainbows and browns on that stretch and my rainbows probably outnumbered my browns. You know three to one on that streamer. And then I've seen guys fish articulated stuff, the bigger stuff, and they catch those meatier browns with that. So they're definitely something to be said about. You know those big, bigger browns, bigger fish gonna chase down and eat. Yeah, you know those bigger flies, but yeah, so, yeah for sure, if there's rainbows present, I've definitely caught more rainbows on those single hook streamers than anything else.
Speaker 2:It's a fun thing to kind of be unraveling on my end, not having like a ton of people streamer fishing around me. Like almost all my friends like streamer fishing, but once again it's you know, need, need rowing or whatever. So figuring out the streamer game has definitely been, uh been, a fun one and I mean it's always cool to see the eats. But yeah, like you said, with the tight line of the euro nymph, whenever my line is tight and then just all of a sudden goes, no matter what I, how I'm doing it, I that's my stuff. I love dry fly fishing. Yeah, not a huge person on the bobber for rivers. If I'm doing chronomids then on a lake, then for sure. Yeah, um, but yeah it's. It's one of those things that that tight line there isn't anything like it when it's just there it is yeah, yeah, it's, it's so definite it's, it's fun.
Speaker 1:It's a fun way to fish yeah, are you.
Speaker 2:I guess you're going into spring, just as everyone else is, so you're just kind of gearing up your own fly boxes currently. Has it been much fishing going on for you, or is it?
Speaker 1:it cool, I try to go once a week. It doesn't really work all the time, but I try to go once a week. So yeah, we've done a couple of trips. We like to go up to southern Idaho. There's a couple rivers we like to fish in southern Idaho, which is for us, it's only about an hour away, so it's not a killer drive at all. And then my local stuff here. We're going to go down to the green river here in the next couple of weeks with the blooming olives hatching there. We always try to time that and get that, do some dry fly fishing down there and always ends up, we always end up nymphing, it seems like, but a lot of times we'll catch that just right and there's a good pot of fish rising and we'll do some blooming olive dry flies down there and then, yeah, so just the local stuff is also as far as, like my boxes go, I I typically tie um, you know, obviously for myself, and then I do a lot with our business.
Speaker 1:So I'm trying to develop new stuff as I go. So I'm tying new stuff and trying that out to see if it's something we want to make in the coming year or two, and then obviously I'm just testing our flies as well. So, yeah, I'm pretty heavy on filling up my box full of Neuronimps and little tag flies and that's kind of what I've been working on so far. So yeah, my goal is to one day complete a full fly box. I guess I do that. I start, I fill up like two or three rows and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna work on my still water box. So I start tying chronomids and leeches and then I move on to like I'm gonna do a hopper box and I never yeah, I feel like, looking at mine, I just reorganized it but the same kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Like there's this one last row and I'm like, well, what do I need in there? So I have my go to's, I got my go to's in bigger and smaller beads and half the time when you're nymphing it's just the right place. The fish do get picky, but I mean, if you got the staples, you got the staples. So, yeah, exactly yeah. So I've been looking, my buddy's been sending me some photos and me and him kind of bounce stuff up or I like to pull ideas from him. But, um, yeah, we bounce back and forth and I'll see something he ties and I'm like, yes, that's a good idea. Yeah, yeah, he's really good at it.
Speaker 2:I don't know why he just like he'll fill a box, like he's a box filler. It's crazy he'll. He'll be like, oh, I'm doing cutty flies. And then you know, a couple of weeks later it's like a full box and I'm like, yeah, I need fire under the belly. You know, I need it to be like I'm guiding tomorrow and I have none of these flies. I'm going to try 30 of them right now. Exactly yeah. And then I'm good, I like the end of the season, because then I just stop tying flies and you know it sizzles out. But yeah, I feel a few boxes definitely my salmon flies, just like small things that I'll tie like a large amount of those, but at this point I haven't been fishing a ton of salmon, so I my box is just full, it's just there. But yeah, have you, uh, have you traveled and done any fishing around or mostly in Utah?
Speaker 1:Um, definitely the most in Utah, but, yeah, we so. Idaho, montana, wyoming, hit all those. Madison river in Montana is probably my favorite place on earth. I love fishing, fishing that river, uh, but we go out to pyramid lake. Try to do that out in farino, out there in nevada. Um been to louisiana red fishing. That was super fun, love that. And my my favorite trip that I did was just actually in october I went up to seattle and fish the puget sound there for sea run cutthroat and I never caught a sea run cutthroat. It was my target I wanted to catch, but I ended up catching surf perch and coho salmon. So I was like I'll take it definitely and that the coho salmon that I caught were unreal. I mean, the the fighting power on that fish was. It was incredible. So definitely want to make that a trip again and get up there and do that. It was awesome.
Speaker 2:So yeah, sear on, cuddy fishing is is good, tough, it's just they're. They're there or they're not, and they, they. My buddy does a lot of it, so I'm just kind of spewing out what he tells me mostly, um, but yeah, it can be very specific sometimes, just, but they're so aggressive, if they're going to hit it they're going to smash it. Yeah, um, but yeah, any, any fish in the ocean, they're, they're pretty strong coho. Sorry, I just flipped over to a different screen. But yeah, the, uh, the coho salmon, that's, that's a good one. It's funny how you didn't catch sea run but you caught a coho, yeah, yeah it's kind of backwards.
Speaker 1:I mean I I got a lot of good help from the fly shops up there, um, the west waters fly shop up there. I can't remember remember Port Angeles and Port Angeles, washington. There they were super helpful and they gave me a couple of places to try and and, uh yeah, just never came together for sea runs. But I got into this little Bay and my first cast I was just I was fishing just to. I couldn't believe how small the streamers were, that they were like suggesting just tiny, like. So I mean this is the streamers that I they were like suggesting just tiny, like. So I mean this, the streamers that I fished. I'm like, oh, this works perfect.
Speaker 1:And first cast, I mean I'm sitting there just stripping it, kind of lazy. I wasn't really expecting to catch anything because I'd gotten skunk the first two days because we were up kind of north, kind of by bellevue or bellingham, and we're kind of down along that southern section of the puget sound, and I was just kind of by Bellevue or Bellingham and we were kind of down along that southern section of the Puget Sound and I was just kind of like I'm just going to get scuffed, nothing's going to work and then my rod just almost ripped out of my hand and I was like, holy shit, like that's a big fish and I was just so bringing it in. I'm like, oh, it's a coho, and that one got off. But they were all just kind of stacked up throughout that bay and I just kind of kept wandering around and I took a bit of one and so I landed a few. Most of them got, yeah, but they were super fun to fight yeah, they're good.
Speaker 2:They're great fish. Did they get out airborne in the ocean?
Speaker 1:yes, yes, they did, yep, and that was awesome. So yeah, yeah, yeah, fossil skunk come to steelhead, I think from what I've heard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been skunked now two years in a row on my river. I've been really stubborn and I've been trying to catch it on mostly classic flies and this year I just. But it's been tough so it's a sensitive subject for me right now. You know, yeah, Sunday, so a few days, or no. Yesterday or Monday yeah, so yesterday was my last day going for them and it was honestly one of the most stressful days I had because I kept, like you know, I felt the pressure of like I was deciding because I guess technically you could keep fishing for them, but there's just too many reds.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you know, I would basically walk around and make sure there was no reds and it was starting to get to the point where basically every run had red. So we just streamer fished for the rest of the day and got one, but I lost it pretty much instantly, so got skunked anyways. Yeah, all right, that's the way she goes, I thought from. I sat down in the river for like a good 20 minutes and just stared into the abyss like what have I done? Three, three months of fishing for this that's six months over two years to not catch one.
Speaker 1:And I'll guarantee that next year I'll be out there doing it again yeah, well, that I've only been still had fishing once and it was up in northern idaho on the um was it the clearwater salmon river? I and I got, I got skunk and I, you know, you got to give it more than a day, but I just kind of they're traveling through and had a buddy that lived up there in lewiston and he was kind enough to take me out and kind of show me and he was like what you say classic. You know that's what he was. And last year I went it was the it was a year ago, in February 2023. And and he was. You know the numbers were high that year. It was a tough year all around, what I understand. So my chances were low to start with. But yeah, I, I mean, just to see one of those fish is incredible, and then hopefully, to get it hooked up on your line is is even better. But yeah, it hasn't, it hasn't come together for me yet, but I've only been once.
Speaker 2:So yeah, if you would have got one and told me that you got one, I would have. I would have just hung up right here and yeah, good, good, thank you, I appreciate that. Um, yeah, I got, uh, last year I got six grabs and like three good hookups for a split second. So I don't know if they're actually that good, but it just happened so fast. And then this year it was five grabs and zero actually hooked. Wow, and, and I was just like every day that would go by I'd just be like, okay, well, I just go out again and again and again, like it will happen. Yeah, it didn't happen. And the three days that I wanted to go out on a weekend but didn't, even though I could have, were the three fishiest days from. Yeah, I've gathered information from people and I was like I don't know, you know, I see this, I see it's going to rain a bunch and there's like cold weather coming. I'm like, perfect, I'll go out. I even took off time off work.
Speaker 2:If steel had no new would I I'd put myself through to try to catch them. I think they would have. I think they would have bit my fly a few more times this season. But yeah, they're really cool fish. Um, I really like him. But then when trout season comes around, I I'm so happy. Yeah, like, finally back to like catching fish. And you know, yeah, back to catching fish pretty much. Yeah, yeah, the Puget Sound, that would be a fun one. That's actually like pretty close. I'm on Vancouver Island.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say you're on Vancouver Island, so that I mean obviously that's Canada.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that I mean obviously that's Canada. Yeah, so it's very close. We actually looked at the border between Seattle and Canada. We're like basically under the line, okay, so it's very close. I think it's like a four or five hour ferry or something like that. Okay, it could be in Seattle, yeah, so that it's. It's super close. So we got very much similar fisheries. We got the sea run cutties. We get all the salmon and all that good stuff. But, yeah, sea run cutty fishing is super fun when it works out, um, but when you don't really know what you're looking for, it's definitely a tough gig to get into yeah, that you know I yeah, that was a total do-it-yourself trip too.
Speaker 1:You know, without the help of those shops around I don't I never would have caught a fish. So but yeah, those do-it-yourself trips are sometimes I mean, that's what makes or breaks you. A lot of times it's, but it's a lot of fun to kind of learn that on your own and just be out there fumbling around and it all comes together and it just works out. You end up catching. You know, I caught probably one of my favorite fish, definitely one of my favorite fish I've ever caught. So it was a lot of fun, definitely worth it that's super cool it's.
Speaker 2:It's interesting too because you know, when we talk lakes or rivers, we're thinking about like how to read the water. Lakes are obviously harder in terms of you know, it's just flat, unless there's wind, I guess. But then you got to know about structure, how that kind of works, what to look for, and then you know, obviously a depth sounder is a huge, almost a crucial help. But yeah, and then rivers, you can read them. You know, if you ever fish them when they're low, that's really useful to like see. But then the ocean it's all like tides. Like one you could be standing in a bay and having like three different tides come at you. So like it's confusing finding like, are they hiding in that? So yeah, that's a lot of groundwork to to figure out a fishery like that.
Speaker 2:You know anything, anything in the, the ocean, can be really good when it's good, but tough to figure out. Yeah, yeah, very humbling, yes, yes, those humbling days though they're, they're good that's. I chalked up this year to just working on my cast and my casting was getting good for two-handed. So yeah, we're happy, um, but I'm so excited to toss a few dry flies. We've been seeing big bugs hatching and lots of stones, lots of mayflies. Caddis I haven't seen yet, but I'm sure they're right around the corner.
Speaker 1:That'll be fun. Yeah, definitely. I mean we're finally getting some good weather here. It just snowed today, okay, but yeah, we had first little blooming olive hatch of the year and fish were actually looking up and of course I was nymphing but I didn't care, I was catching fish. But yeah, we've had bad wind and rain and snow now the last few days and rivers are coming up and getting muddy, so now it's kind of going to make it a more harder for for me anyways, where I'm at. But trying to get into still water fishing a little bit more during these times when the runoffs happen, and then that's one area that I definitely need to work on is it's my lake fishing. So that's kind of what I'm hoping to do, a little bit more for the spring.
Speaker 2:I took several courses on Stillwater and they were super helpful. It's just, yeah, it's a different system, different game With the rivers and the nymphs. It's like, well, what nymph you got, and you switch your bug out or something, um, and maybe a bit of a depth change. Maybe you're too high, maybe you're too low, whatever that could be, but then with the lakes you're, you got huge amount of depth. How does that bug swim? Because it's swimming, it's not. You know, there might be a bit of a current, but not really, yeah. So, yeah, it's like lakes are having like all the different lines if you're getting super seriously, you know what I mean like, oh, yeah, for sure. Oh, you only got a type three sink. Oh, man, you need a type seven. You know we're not catching fish today, yeah, exactly, but lakes can be really fun. I would like to go fish some lakes in the mainland because they have better stock. Trout Do you guys have penasca out there? Do you have different strains of rainbows? Is, I guess, the better question.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm not sure what the strain would be on them. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:To be honest with you, yeah, fair enough, because we got um blackwater for sure, panask, uh, fraser valley, and then I'm sure there's other ones that I don't know about, but those are the three main ones. And fraser valleys are just kind of like your very typical stocked lake trout, don't fight super hard, just kind of like your very typical stalked lake trout, don't fight super hard, just kind of like are there. And then the blackwaters are like aggressive, just like streamer eaters kind of thing, like they'll take like small bait fish and just more aggressive in general. And then the penasks they actually grow like sizable and eat chronomids mainly, yeah, and or like they basically look like a steelhead, like a summer run steelhead, just like nice chrome dimes. But if you ever get a chance to come fish some of the the lakes in bc there's, there's some pretty crazy ones, so like 10, 15 trout, um the 15 pound trout I haven't heard a ton of but I've heard of them. So yeah, they're there.
Speaker 1:I mean, I've seen a lot of stuff from from bc is amazing trout on still water fisheries it's, it's unreal. I'll have to look into that and see what kind of rainbows they stock here. I don't, I couldn't, even I'd be like a fool if I guessed and tried to tell you what they were.
Speaker 2:I'm not a yeah I only know it because I used to.
Speaker 2:I used to chase um stocked, like if I ever saw a certain species dropped in a certain lake, I knew I wanted to go there.
Speaker 2:But yeah, yeah, the first year I ever experienced the black waters, which was cool uh, they were always doing the fraser valley and then they dropped in the black water and it turned out like we were hitting chronomids and it was just like the fishing was hot but these fish were actually like running and I was like what's gotten into these guys? Yeah and uh, yeah, we looked at the stocking report and I was like, uh, what's gotten into these guys? Yeah, and yeah, we looked at the stalking report and I was like, okay, but yeah, the stalking reports can also kind of teach you something. This is just food for thought. But if you ever see, like, if it says fly only and no retention, especially in Canada I'm not 100% sure of the US, but that's a good indication that it's probably a trophy lake, yeah, yeah, so there's little snippets like that that can kind of give you a good idea. And then there's systems you can usually see when they've dropped rootstocks in and stuff.
Speaker 1:So that's another little thing we need for I use that pretty heavily in utah, um, and that's that's one thing that I've noticed too, and I I think people don't realize that there's so much access to information online about your local, like state, fish stocking and my biggest thing, honestly. So I use the stocking report, but what I've been doing a lot now is just tracking just the flows of each river. So I get on like and just check the CFS of each river, because that's a big indicator too of, you know, fish movement, bug life, bug activity, and so for right now, like my local river is starting to go up and there's a certain bench point where I'm like, okay, I know I can't get in and wade. Once it gets, you know, 300 CFS and these little streams, it's just, um, just not manageable. But if it gets down to 250, 200, it's like prime time and a lot of guys stay away from it because they think it's so fast or it's blown out or whatever.
Speaker 1:But you can work those edges and work those pockets to still find fish that are, you know, actively feeding, even in that higher, muddy, muddier water, and I use that to my my benefit quite a bit, and I think a lot of people overlook that or don't know about it. So they don't utilize those resources, especially the government ones, where you know the state is putting that information online and you can use a lot of that information to show you like oh, they've stocked this lake once in the last five years. Well, you know, it might be an indication that the lake's doing really well, and so there's some big fish in there that are, you know, lasting, or it might be a bust, and they've stopped stocking it because they've all died off and it's just not worth it anymore. So there's a gamble there. But a lot of times I've found that it's the fish if they haven't stocked it. In a few years the fish have grown and their growth rates have been really good and you're going to catch some big fish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good point, both on the river and the stocking one. I know, yeah, high water, if you can find a spot to to stand, you don't need to be in the water, especially if you're narrow nipping. Um, great fishing to be had, even muddy water, like, yeah, I mean, as long as the nymph is within three, three inches of their face and they're hungry, probably going to get one. So, yeah, yeah, I like fishing muddy water too, like I know for browns, um, you know, if there was just big, heavy rain and the water's kind of muddied up, it's a good time to streamer fish. Yep, and the fish feel happy and safe because they're from up high.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah, they go a little grabby. It does make it for a good to fight too is having a extra flow. But, yeah, I've been noticing the speed of the water is something I've been paying a little bit more attention to. And then, um, obviously, you know the the actual height of the river when it's dropping, when it's rising. Those are all things that now I'm really like, after the last few years, I'm really starting to understand this and important thing to pay attention to yeah, find, uh, is there any scenarios where you like, no, I'm not going fishing.
Speaker 1:Asides from blown out um, oh man, not really. I don't mind fishing in the weather. Probably my duration, my longevity of being out probably shortens quite a bit, um, from when I was back in college. But you know, if it's, if it's not a total downpour or I guess the one thing I hate is fishing in the wind. That's probably the biggest one. If it's big gusty wind, I don't love that condition.
Speaker 1:But I probably fish more this winter than I have in a long time, just trying to get out and go and, for me, just trying to learn, you know, fish behavior, what they're going to eat. And a lot of people shy away from winter fishing because it's so cold, which you know, which I get it but also it's harder to fish because those fish are more selective, because there's just not much food around. So you really have to dial in your presentation and getting that fly just right where the fish is going to eat it and grab it, because a winter fish isn't going to travel that extra three feet to grab that fly versus a thumber fish. So that's helped me to kind of, you know, learn a lot just about my own abilities and and and then also just, I guess, building that patience and skill to be able to catch those winter fish. But no, I don't. I mean I try to get out as much as I can and any conditions that I can typically doesn't scare me off too much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, same way. I mean, if it's chocolate milk, at least for the system I work the most, which is the Cowichan River if it's chocolate milk, the next day there's a few good creeks around, if it's the season, and sure I'm in, uh, laying eggs, and then you know, but yeah, yeah, the chocolate milk. It's always sad when you get to a spot that you think is going to be good and it's just chocolate milk and you're like, well, what now?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly we all have a bit of a plan B, but no one actually expects to use it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, last year we had such a heavy snowfall and wet winter so our runoff was horrible, so there was like no fishing in the spring and so we were like, well, we'll try to still water fish more. But even the lakes there was so much water getting pumped into those lakes and it was all just chocolate milk, so the lakes were just super stained and dirty and that made it even tougher lake fishing. So it was a yeah, I mean, that's certain points where you're just like we got out on the lake and we were just like looking each other like I don't think we're going to catch anything, and so that confidence just plummeted right off the start and you know it was just a bad day. But then you're like, well, what's plan B? It's like, well, we got the boats. We can't really go anywhere else. What do we need to do? So let's pack it up and go home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes I don't know. I find now too, I mean, you got kids, so you also are like, well, if I'm not, it's not the greatest day to be out, like I'm okay to go home a little earlier nowadays, whereas before I'd be like, no, I'm staying out here. Yeah, exactly yeah. As far as Euro, your Euro setup, what, what does that look like? As far as your Euro setup.
Speaker 1:what does that look like? I have a scientific angler. It's just my rig, basically my line. I used to make my own leaders when I first started. Then Rio and Scientific Anglers came out with their own Euro line.
Speaker 1:I bought one of those and I was just like yeah, that's super easy, I don't have to mess around with the liter formula. So I just run one of those and then, you know, I just usually have like an 18-inch sider on there and I run a lot of 5 and 6X tippet on that and I traditionally have pretty good-sized anchor fly with my tag up. You, you know, 18 to 20 inches above my anchor fly. So that's pretty common for what I run most anywhere. Obviously, if I I fish, like I said, the madison river up in montana, I'll obviously um size up my my tip a little bit there 4X, 5x on that river. But for the most part I fish pretty light around here. We don't have a lot of big fish anyways. So I feel like getting away to 6X is pretty easy and makes the fight a little bit funner too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, You're a little bit more gentle on it. Yeah, With still getting. Yeah, that's good. I uh I have never Euroed two flies, so I would imagine that's just very convenient.
Speaker 1:It's super convenient. The nice thing is if they're dialed in on the tag fly, so then your anchor fly doesn't even matter. I mean, you're just using that for weight at that point to get it down. But man, I've had days where you caught fish on both flies and that's a lot of fun, where you catch little rainbows on both fly and you get two in one and it's super cool. So when they're really going at it and they're dialed in, you can catch two fish at a time, and it makes it even better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a little bonus. It's kind of like you're catching twice the weight, right? Yeah, exactly yeah, do they? Do they swim the same way or do they fight against each other?
Speaker 1:a lot of times they'll fight against each other, they'll go away from each other, and so you're like and a lot of times they'll break off because you got that different, you know tension point and you're just like, oh crap, but I mean, typically they're not big enough to really do any damage anyways. So but yeah they, they typically don't like to be by each other yeah, no, that's fair, I've, uh, I got one on the streamer.
Speaker 2:Well, two fish on um. I was in alberta, which you're allowed to in alberta, have two flies. I think you can do three flies, um, but now that's really excessive. My in bc it's one fly only, yeah, one fly only and barbless um. No, if it's fly only, no indicators. So like there's all these kind of special things and you go into alberta and you're just a free bird, do whatever the heck you want. Leave, leave your barb, you know, cast three flies, whatever you want to do. So, yeah, but I did get two fish, but it was basically like the last second. The second fish grabbed on to like a trailing leech and yeah, it was just kind of like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:It was exciting, it was fun. So, yeah, um, no, that's good. And then, uh, as far as the rod you were using, I don't know if you mentioned that, so I've got.
Speaker 1:I've got two. I've got a stage what is it? Sage sense? It's a three weight and it's a 10 foot six. And then I have a courtland. It's a professional um and it's also a three weight, but it's a. It's an 11 foot rod, I think is what it is.
Speaker 1:So I switched between both my reels. Honestly I don't even worry about the real setup on that. I my one's an old lamson that I took the dry fly line off. That was all bad and I just made it my Euro reel. And then I bought a little um Reddington I think it's a run little reel for my other one. So I kind of switched back and forth. I go back and forth between that Sage and that Cortland. But, um, man, I like that Cortland a lot. Both rods are good, but I find myself more and more fishing that courtland a lot. It's just got a better feel to it as far as like how it handles in my arm, in my hand. So I fish that a lot more. If I'm going on a big trip I take both, just in case I break one. But I'll start with that courtland rod before I'll start with that Sage. It's just. I guess that just makes my arm feel more comfortable as I'm bringing that fly down through the runs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fair enough. I did um experiment a bit with, like, just adding more wave and Euro wing. If having a heavier reel is nice cause, then it helps kind of hold everything upwards, yeah, um. So, yeah, now everything, because I bought a lot of reels when I first started and then I started buying reels that had extra spools and that's a bit of a game changer when you're just getting into it or, like you know, I do the guiding thing. So having one reel with three spools and all three spools having something different, you know, yep, is super convenient. Really good too for lakes. Um, I have a lake reel. I actually have four of the same reel, um, two for guiding and two for myself, and then I just kept buying the same one because I was like, well, I just have more spools, like I was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I'll use that on anything, right? Yeah, is it on a three, four or five weight, I don't care, because at that point it's like, well, that's, you know, 300 canadian, so it's, I think it's like 360 bucks or something. Yeah, um, you know, per reel, versus buying, you know, a three, four hundred dollar reel and then buying one more spool and then buying another spool, it's gets a lot, you know. Yeah, for sure, reels can get, reels can get a lot. So yes, they can. Yeah, did you like that, lamson? I know you said it was a little older, but yeah, I do.
Speaker 1:I've've got, I've got two Lampsons and they're definitely older. I haven't bought a new Lampson for a while but yeah, I I've enjoyed them. They've held up pretty good for me. Honestly, I use. I have a Sage. I can't remember the name of the reel, but I have a Sage for a five-weight and for my seven-weight that I use probably the most now. Those reels are pretty slick. I love those. The Spectrum yes, spectrum.
Speaker 2:Spectrum.
Speaker 1:C Yep, that's the one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just got mine back from repair, so I'm very excited. I took it out in minus four degrees so that's very cold, yeah, so whatever that equates to you. Yeah, so it was broken and it was gone for a bit and then I got it back and I'm a very happy camper. But yeah, I think I have two others, one or two other on for a bit and then I got it back and I'm a very happy camper. But, yeah, there's I have. I think I have two others, one or two other um, because they are such a good reel, I like um, they're just nice, and then you can also like spool them up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I, I have. So I did buy an extra spool for my seven weight. That's what I took up to the Puget Sound. So I had an intermediate line on it and then also like a type two or type three line on the other spool. But I ended up just using that intermediate line because I was just fishing so shallow. But yeah, that reel, I love that real good.
Speaker 2:Real. Yeah, I do really like casting an intermediate. It's so nice. Yeah, I feel like you're a great caster.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's such a good feeling, I guess, sinking line, that you know I can do it no problem. But it's also like it's just one to do some weird shit at the end. Yeah, yeah, then when you go back from an intermediate to like a dry line, you're like you know, it just feels so good. But yeah, I find that's the one I fish the most on on the lakes. Um, if they're really deep maybe I'll go to my type three. I don't really. I don't have a type seven. Yeah, I will.
Speaker 2:If I bought one it would be a type seven. If, like in my books, in my mind it's get a type seven, get a type five, or sorry, a type seven and a type three, and then an intermediate and a dry fly line, like you'd be pretty set for the first while, um, on on a lake, I think Cause, then when you know if you get really specific on certain bugs and you want it to actually sink out a certain speed, then you can get the other sink sinking lines. But for me, yeah, an intermediate's like that's groovy, I just like fishing it, I like casting it. You know, I like just sitting there and counting and feeling some grabs along the way and kind of honing in on them From the course I took. It was also a really good way to to search because your line's just dropping nice and evenly, you know, slow going. So when you do those bites and you're counting in your head you can kind of hone in on on where they are in the in the lake, what depth they're kind of feeding at.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, but casting them super sick, yeah, it's a breeze, I love it. And do you still like? What's, what's the bug life out there? Just everything normal, do you? Yeah, pretty standard stuff.
Speaker 1:Yes, we've got what. It's pretty fun. We got one creek here in our valley that has salmon flies that hatch early June. That's pretty cool to have that in your backyard. It's always fun to go hit that. Other than that, it's pretty much your standard.
Speaker 1:We have a ton of caddis really good caddis hatches on the Logan River. We have a ton of caddis really good caddis hatches on the logan river. Um, like I said earlier, there's just tons of native cutthroats in that river system that you know. Late summer nights go up there fish till dark and you can just hear the grabs that you know when it gets dark and it's a lot of fun to catch those little fish. But yeah, the caddis hatches are pretty amazing here. Um, we actually have a really good green drake hatch, nice on the on the blacksmith fork. There's some really good, a ton of green drake nymphs in the river. Um, I've actually never timed it well to hit that hatch. I think it's pretty short, but buddies I've talked to said that they've timed it pretty good and have gotten into it. So that's one that is really fun if you can time it right. But yeah, so other than that, pretty standard stuff yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, green drakes, are they like pretty big.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Yeah, they're pretty good sized ones.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saw one green drake hatch and it didn't last very long, but it was like where they were. They were dense as could be. Yeah, and just like so easy to see them from a distance, just like parachuting down the river.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's insane, yeah, that's a big mayfly.
Speaker 2:It is a big mayfly. It's just cool to see like a really large hatch happen. Yeah, it's kind of mind-boggling when you see like the sheer number. Like you, when you envision it and you've never seen it, it's like, yeah, you know there's going to be a lot. But then when you actually see it and it's like I've talked to a few people on my river and that have said like they've seen bigger ones than the ones I've seen, to the point where you have to like keep your, your mouth closed because it's like covering. They're covering their arms, they're covering the oars, um, just all over the place.
Speaker 1:Pretty wild, yeah we've had cat as hatches where we've got them. You know they get all over in your clothes and everything. And you're driving home and the cat they're just flying in your truck. Yeah, you got the windows down trying to blow them out and then it's so thick that you just they're up in your hat, they crawl up underneath there in your hair. It's, it's, it's crazy, it's, it's fun to see that. So, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, man, I uh yeah, I think I covered everything I kind of cool honored about. Um, I guess we could just finish it up with uh, what you're working on now with the box, is it still just the nymphs you're saying just make sure, yeah for the most part I'm working on kind of a dual thing.
Speaker 1:I'm doing a nymph box um, I don't have it, it's in my pack and then I'm working on a little just like a little still water box, just kind of working on balanced leeches leeches you can see my crown on the mid-side over here is not very full yet, but that's just kind of what I've been working on, picking away at it. So I need to get going on it, because all the ice has melted off now and I'm already behind, so kind. Get going on it, because all the ice is melted off now and I'm already behind, so kind of working on that for my still water game.
Speaker 2:You just got to utilize your kids really well. Like cake, this is what we need to tie, and then you get this tasty treat and then yeah, exactly they.
Speaker 1:They think they love mountain dew. They're like I I want to drink Mountain Dew. I was like well, fill up my box, fill this box, and I'll give you a.
Speaker 2:Mountain Dew yeah, you'll get your Mountain Dew. That's funny. That's every fly fisherman dad's dream right there. Yeah, exactly, kids and flies, yep, yeah. Well, I really appreciate it, court. It was fun having you on and I hope you have a good season out there.
Speaker 1:Appreciate it. Yeah, you too, andrew. Nice talking with you and thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no worries. Well, tight lines, and I'm sure we'll keep chatting Okay, sounds good.
Speaker 2:And there you have it. That was Courtney Bailey down in Idaho. So if you want to follow along on his adventure, check out fly underscore cash. That's spelled C-A-C-H-E. And yeah, go follow him on Instagram. Check out what he's up to. If you're into flies, that's your guy. So I hope you enjoyed this episode, as always. If there's anyone else you'd like to hear on the podcast, just shoot me a message over at Dead Drifters Society on any of the platforms that I'm on and I will get back to you and, as always, I'll catch you later.