Dead Drifters Society: A fly fishing podcast
Tales Tied to the Tackle: Life Lessons and Laughter Alongside The Dead Drifter
As the conversation ebbs and flows, we navigate through the nuances of trout behavior in changing waters, the art of tying the perfect nymph, and the psychological dance of casting under pressure. Whether you're a novice wetting your first fly or a seasoned angler seeking new challenges, there's a wealth of knowledge awaiting you. From the intricacies of fishing different river sections to understanding when to move on from a spot, we impart the strategies that have brought us both jubilant victories and humbling lessons.
But this episode is more than just tips and techniques—it's a journey into the heart of our fishing community. We contemplate the ethics that bind us, celebrate the tradition passing from father to son, and honor the friendships forged in the shared silence of waiting for the next bite. Join us in this feast of stories where every narrative is a nod to the enduring bonds and the soulful pursuit that keeps our lines tight and our spirits high.
As the conversation ebbs and flows, we navigate through the nuances of trout behavior in changing waters, the art of tying the perfect nymph, and the psychological dance of casting under pressure. Whether you're a novice wetting your first fly or a seasoned angler seeking new challenges, there's a wealth of knowledge awaiting you. From the intricacies of fishing different river sections to understanding when to move on from a spot, we impart the strategies that have brought us both jubilant victories and humbling lessons.
But this episode is more than just tips and techniques—it's a journey into the heart of our fishing community. We contemplate the ethics that bind us, celebrate the tradition passing from father to son, and honor the friendships forged in the shared silence of waiting for the next bite. Join us in this feast of stories where every narrative is a nod to the enduring bonds and the soulful pursuit that keeps our lines tight and our spirits high.
Welcome to Dead Drifter's Drifter's Society.
Speaker 2:Welcome back, Dead Drifter. How's it going?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's not so bad. Got some good days on the water last week and, yeah, should be a good season shaping up for us.
Speaker 2:Right on. So, mitch, you've taken me out of this situation of not having a guest. So I appreciate that. I know that we're going to be talking about where fish hold and kind of tactics that I've used and you've used to kind of figure them out, and then all the other nonsense we'll get into. So but, yeah, no, it's, it's, it's been busy, so I got. Yeah, no, it's been busy, so I got. And then all the days off that I did booked myself or, you know, made sure I had a couple of days off or something they all got booked up with guiding. Yeah, I would take days off of construction, but I wouldn't take days off guiding because it's good times. Exactly, let the good times roll. They say. You know, they say that they do?
Speaker 1:Should I tie size 10 or 12?
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely 12. Okay, I was leaving for 10. I don't know what you're tying.
Speaker 2:Just basic nymphs okay yeah, size 12, stick firm. Well, hey, um. So I I did get a couple of messages from people that were just like, oh, talk about this subject, this subject, but well, they messaged me about that. I was thinking too. And just as far as you know the hooks that I've used and stuff, I've obviously come to really appreciate certain brands and certain hooks, but for jig hooks, I love the hannock competition. H45, xh yeah, have you ever used those ones like kind of look like that, or they look exactly like that I have not what I typically use are going to be.
Speaker 1:These guys fire Fireholes. Yeah, fireholes are like I can't seem to find them immediately. There's some Ereks hooks that I use, that I like as well, and then I've also used, like Daichis, of various assortments, depending on what I have and depending on what I like. I mean working at Sportsman's Warehouse, like they don't carry a fire hole.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So I got to go to one shop, one specific shop in town, to get it, and it's just whether or not I feel like driving over there to get it. And then I have too many hooks and too much material to even you know shake a stick at to begin with. So I need to buy more Might as well chip at what I got, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm pretty firm on that, for you know you always get new material or new stuff and you start to like them more and then you get this inventory of stuff you don't use. But yeah, so as far as like these hooks, the reason I like them is they're a little bit of a thicker gauge, so that does help get down. Yep, um, but I've like you know I'm I'm out there guiding people, helping them catch fish, having a good time and stuff. We lose a lot of hooks, but the one thing that I really appreciate and fire hole I use as well um, but I've just now grown custom.
Speaker 2:These are the jig hooks I use, but they are just beastie. I pulled in steel head on a size 14 and I lost them, but it was because of the tip. It snapped, so maybe the hook bent, I don't know. I never got it in, but I hooked them and I was fighting him for a bit. But of course I had, like I think I had fourx on, so that's like what, seven pounds or something like that yeah, depending on the brand it's somewhere, depending on the brand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was. You know, I I've had big fish on it, I've had um, like my, my, I tie them with a size 10 of that, the H45XH.
Speaker 1:Corey, when you're guiding people, was that steelhead that snapped off? Was that a personal fish or a client?
Speaker 2:fish. That was a personal fish. It was an insane dry. I think it was my last birthday or something like that. It was someone's birthday. I think it was mine. Um, actually, yeah, it was mine. He said it would have been around april and I'm I'm the birthday boy in april, plus all the other people out there, but I'm the birthday boy, you know. Yeah, yeah. So we were out on the flow on the raft, me and my two good buddies that I fish with probably the most. We pulled up to this spot and it was just dry fly haven and they were jumping all around taking flies. It was really good, big browns, um, you know all sorts of things. And one thing I do like to do is now, around now, when the weather gets nice and the bug or the fish start moving around for the bugs. I don't always step away from Euro, but I'll step away from Euro more often and just do a long leader with a nymph on it.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And so this day I did that with a tiny. It was a size 16 or 18 hook. So I like cast it out, did the thing, fish grabs it. I set the hook.
Speaker 2:You know, one of those moments and I was like, oh my God, and that season's last year I didn't actually land a steelhead and I've always kind of avoided nymphing for them Um, so I was like kind of choked because I was like, God damn it, that was on the swing on a fricking nymph, and it was like a week after I stopped fishing for steelhead.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, that was a really cool, cool experience, because that was also the year that I was really focusing on paying attention to how to nymph with a long leader. Um, just because I want to be able to. You know, especially if someone gets on the raft and they're like no, I know what your own is, I don't want to do that, I don't want to be like well, that's all I know. You know what I mean. So I was really trying to focus on on making sure I was able to fish it really well. So getting down to the very bottom in that fast water was like, you know, I don't know how high up the fish came, but I I can't imagine he came up that high. So that was super cool, Um but.
Speaker 1:I guess what I was getting at not not to cut you off is like how do you go about losing a fish with a client, like if they lose a big fish? Yeah, like like if you're with a client and you lose a big fish on like a net job, oh, or something like that. Like how do you, how do you go about that, like what's your?
Speaker 2:instantly tell them that there's another big fish out there with their name on it. That's that's one key thing.
Speaker 2:It doesn't happen often that I lose a good fish with it, like it usually will happen before the net's introduced okay, well, yeah yeah, so I guess like my buddy ryan, though one time I lost him it might have been a big or a good coho or it might have been a steelhead, we weren't sure. Um, this was a couple of years ago and uh, sorry if there's any little kids listening, but he Net or hooked it. I go to net it and I literally bonk it out off the hook. Oh, one of those like like I'm pretty good with a net, like I played I. Oh, one of those like like I'm pretty good with a net, like I played.
Speaker 2:I didn't play lacrosse, but I played like actually went out to the fields with my friends and we played lacrosse quite a bit and stuff like that. And so I, you know, I I kind of take pride on the fact that I'm good at netting a fish. So, and so that moment happened and I looked at him. I'm like dude, I'm so sorry. And he was like it's all good, and he like looks away and he's just sitting there for a second, or standing there for a second, he's just like fuck, I was like oh yeah, he's choked um we, uh, we all try to maintain some composure until we can't yeah, and it was definitely one of those, definitely one of those fish.
Speaker 2:It was closer to when ryan was first getting into fly fishing or at least getting good at it, so like it was, you know, one of those, one of those moments. But yeah, if I lose someone's big fish which hasn't really happened all that often um, today there was a good one that, um, I didn't lose it but I didn't net it. Yeah, so I guess I it would. It jumped around it like bonked or bounced off my raft, it went between the oars and then popped off as I went to net it. In all that mix, so okay, and I kind of already had the feeling that it was going to get lost. Um, so I was trying to net it quickly. My, I really do now try to avoid rushing the netting, as much as I want to get that fish in quick and all that good stuff. That will happen.
Speaker 1:But going too early on on netting them is a thing yeah, I guess the the one thing that my friends and I uh kind of the the one rule that we have is you don't talk about a fish until it hits the net, right? Yeah?
Speaker 2:so it's quiet on the river, and then, once it's in the net, you can say what you want to say yeah.
Speaker 1:So, like if you see a fish come up and like you're fighting the fish and it's like dogging you or whatever, right, and if it's dogging you and then like let's say it rolls near the surface and you get a sight on it, nobody says a word about that fish. You don't say, oh, that's a big fish. You're like, oh yeah, you don't talk about the fish until it hits the net. It doesn't matter if that fish is a big fish, if it's big, if it's, you know, fat, if it's colorful, whatever, that doesn't matter until it's in the net and secured, yeah so I, I feel good about that and I mean it's, it's hard with new people, but if it's like a sought after fish, like a steelhead, it's, you know.
Speaker 2:Anytime it's quiet, you know people are focusing. I, I get that, like you know. Oh, you know, last last one I hooked, or landed I should say it's been so long, jesus uh, the last one I landed, I remember it it almost felt like I blacked out. To be honest, it was like I hooked it, uh, it started doing its thing and all of a sudden, all the sound, the. I couldn't hear the river. My buddy was next to me, didn't hear him. I was just like, didn't even hear my reel, mostly because there was no clicker on it. So that's a good reason. I used to really like quiet reels. Now I'm getting into. I don't mind that, yeah, yeah it's fun when you go to fish on.
Speaker 2:I don't like it when people are just constantly ripping offline. Yeah, I'm like, okay, I'm over that. Yep, um, yeah, so, but back to the uh, back to those hooks, the Hannock competition, the amount of rocks I've ripped them off of. Yeah, and if they bend open I know you should never do this, don't tell my dentist but if I just put it in my mouth, bend it back to where it was, it'd catch a big brown. Oh, yeah, bend it back to where it was. Oh, catch a big brown.
Speaker 1:Um, no, so it's like, were you fishing browns or bows today?
Speaker 2:uh, well, I okay. So with clients, I play it, play the cards, the way it's dealt. So if you're if you're an experienced angler or have any form of experience, I will make sure we get fish which are going to be rainbows, work hard at that. And then if you're if you're an experienced angler and you can get on and off the raft and right now the section I like working more on foot or there's some spots I'll literally get out, be like, okay, we're walking up here, we're going to fish this bank. You know this is how you work from the, from the shore, because it's different. You know, being on a boat, there's nothing to hook up on besides from hopefully tree or hopefully fish and not the trees. Yep, um. And then, and then I'll be like okay, we got our fish today, so now we're going for browns. But if we go for browns we're not catching rainbows, because we're not targeting rainbows, and you know. So you're kind of giving up one for the other. Do you catch rainbows where browns are sometimes Sure?
Speaker 1:Okay, I was going to say is there not much like uh overlay with where you're finding each in the river?
Speaker 2:no, there is overlay, um, but they're also like I would say, you know, and I'm once again, I'm still learning and all that and it seems to be in the winter they're kind of more mixed in. In the warmer weather it seems like they're more in their little spots. But that being said, you know there is definitely overlay. This works out well, for what my buddy scott said we should talk about was, uh, where sit, where fish sit, um, and that ties into exactly what we're talking about. So that's good.
Speaker 1:So so are you now when, when you say you're switching to Browns versus bows or whatever, is that a is that a location change or is that a technique change Like, are you switching off Nims with, like, big, meaty streamers, or are you just strictly going for different pockets of water? Or you know how are you attacking that?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's a good question, um, I attack it by like you need to be able to expect. Let's just say we're euroing, we'll just stick to euroing, because everything has its own kind of variance. But if we're just harrowing for trout, um, and you want to catch browns, you're going to have to be hitting spots and like reading the water and figuring out where you want your flight to be next, all in the same kind of go. So, obviously, having a guide, I can kind of be like this you know, I've caught them here and there. In my mind I'm like okay, this run I have four locations where I've hooked them. So those four locations and two of them are on one side, two of them are on the other we can only hit maybe two of them and then if your casting's not up to par, you might not even hit either of those spots. Yeah, whereas a rainbow? You know, they're generally like, let's say, we just go for the springtime.
Speaker 2:Right now, water's dropping. It's getting lower and lower pretty much daily. My system is definitely because they're purposely getting holding back water this year, finally, thank God. So it's getting lower and lower is definitely because they're purposely getting, uh, holding back water this year, finally, thank god. Um. So it's getting lower and lower, which means the fish are now getting more condensed into the, the faster rapid water and really liking that fast rapid water into a drop. But I find in that drop that's usually where I'll get some browns and then just past that drop is where the rainbows will be. But then you get rainbows right on that drop too. So, but the browns usually, at least for me, um, I find that I get more, more of them right in that very beginning of it, like right before the drop. They're right at that drop level, at that behind that big boulder where it's going to now fall down, and then it's. It's for me at least.
Speaker 2:It's tough to catch browns from the boat. I can do it with dries, I can do it with streamers. But new thing, it's a luck thing, I think, but when I'm on foot, because you can be so much more methodical on how you're actually fishing the water, you can see, okay, I think the brown's going to be there and there, and then you can work the water all around it until you get to those spots and then really, really target it. So, like the other day, we hooked one brown and after work, so one brown for the whole day and I had two good two, two good anglers and we were attempting to get a brown. And then I go out after work for 45 minutes and I catch three browns. They weren't big but I went up to three spots and fished and got three browns.
Speaker 2:But then if I was on a boat we just would have blown past it too fast. Or someone would have said, get ready to cast. And they go to cast and the ship tangles up. Then there's that pressure. They're like oh, I'm going for a big fish. So all the nerves come up their lines, all over their, their shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dry flies, I don't find is is the hardest way to catch browns. I find it's actually relatively easy. If you've um, especially if you've seen it feed. If you've seen a brown come up, I'll, I'll find a fly to take that will take him down. Yeah, um, or that he'll take down and I'll take him down, and yeah. So with new beginners, like the last couple of days I've had people that are are really just starting, uh, their fly fishing journeys and so I just target rainbows. Near the end of the day I'll definitely be like, hey, if you tried to hit that spot.
Speaker 2:You know, I've caught a Brown there around this time of the year, kind of thing. Okay, I see how it goes, but yeah, it's I, I it's. It's so weird too because, like, we all know or not everyone, I guess, but a lot of people know that, um, browns seem to like the shittier weather. You know, I got reminded that the other day by, uh, by the guide I I work for. Um, I was like, yeah, it's just so weird. You know, you really think like, oh, today's so nice, so many bugs out, and like I'll definitely see a Brown, and then you don't see one. And then it was like, yeah, like I don't know why, but they love that shitty weather. You know, like, if it was not a super high river and then had a massive rain and it was just almost blown out, but not quite, but close to it, that is a good recipe for a streamer day. You go streamers around and you're going to probably move a big fish and you're going to probably move a big fish.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wonder if it's just the fact that it's a big profile and it's easier for them to ambush stuff better in dark chocolatey water, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it has a little bit to do with that. I think it has a little bit to do with the fact that, um, I think it has a little bit to do with the fact that you creep up on them, versus them staring at this giant blue thing coming down the river, being like what the shit is that? Yeah, or they remember my freaking boat and they're like god damn, there he is. You know lots going on. It's, I find, that the browns. It's either someone that can't, doesn't know how to fight a big fish yet and they get that brown. They get that brown that I've been, that I've hooked and lost a couple of times. And then they finally get that brown and they just like freeze up and it pops off and I'm just like go. And then, of course, you know same thing about, like losing a big fish.
Speaker 2:I try not to make a big deal about a scenario like that. I'm like, oh, I lose fish all the time. Everyone loses fish. That's part of the game, yeah, and then they feel okay, but it's still a sad moment for any human. I get more stressed if I'm trying to tell them what to do and they're just not doing it and then I lose it, or then they lose it. If I'm telling them what to do and they're doing everything right, you know, angling the, the rod, the right way, keeping good tension, um, and all everything is going good and it pops off. Then I'm'm like mentally like, ah, yeah, yeah it's.
Speaker 2:You know, locating fish is a big thing. I like to kind of teach people to think for themselves and I'm like, okay, so today I want you to really pay attention to the type of water you caught that fish in last and keep notes of that. And if you notice that the whole day it's always the same type of water, then you know what to target. Um, as easy as that is to say. Sometimes we forget it. I sometimes forget that. Yeah, so you know rainbows, they're not as boat shy, at least on my system. Uh, the bigger rainbows, um, um, they're out there and they don't always bite. I've noticed this too, where it's like one day you'll get a like massive amount of small rainbows and then the next day you'll get like a decent amount of big rainbows. I don't know if they got scheduling system going Denise has told them what they got for the day or what but you know it's it.
Speaker 1:It's almost like I've been, I've been told kind of, and whether this is like true or not. But uh like, if you're fishing a hole that like a lot of the rivers up here have like rainbows and grayling in them, uh, and then some have dollies as well like mixed in. So let's say you hit a river that has all three, you'll hit. You'll hit those rainbows and dollies pretty much solely in the beginning and then, like once, once you worked through those rainbows and dollies, it's like that's when the start hitting. Okay, so it's like, if you like, if you start hitting grayling repeatedly, it's like there's probably not rainbows in that run or they're probably turned off and not feeding at that point. Um, yeah, so it could be something like that with you where you know the big fish feed all in one day and then they're gorged and they're sitting so they're not eating as much the next day and those little fish take over, you know and that would make sense.
Speaker 2:Yesterday I had a phenomenal day. We hooked probably like an absurd amount, like 80 fish, um shit. Yeah, I don't really normally I don't really sit on spots and like work that hard, but it was a client that we would like to uh keep around, um, and they were just super fun to be with. So we had just one of those days you know, it only happens once in a while where you get like such a phenomenal day, um, and they were relatively new to fly fishing. So I was like kind of going we didn't land that many, we probably landed about half that.
Speaker 2:Um, they both got into them or, and almost all of them were 16 plus, like 14 plus let's go 14. I'm a fisherman, so things grow over time. Yeah, even if it's been a day.
Speaker 1:Yeah I'll talk to you about that in like two weeks and it'll be doll be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're all freaking 25 plus buds. Um, yeah, that makes sense too, like I was saying. I really were saying with the food, because today was much smaller fish. My two anglers weren't as good. Um, they were really brand new to it and they were trying hard, so shout out to them. They did great, but it was definitely a different day. Same bugs I have this one fly that I pretty much not solely fish, but so far I have not found a fly that outfishes it during this month.
Speaker 2:Really, during these two months, almost three months, the second, the March Browns start to hatch and be in the air. I hate that. It could be. I could almost be a one fly wonder, you know, if all I was doing was nymphing. I tie them in a few different sizes, not so much the hook. The hook stays the same because I really like a big gap on it so that I can keep a fish on. So tie there's.
Speaker 2:Only when I get down to size 16 do I do I actually change the hook, but what I do is I just tie the body shorter so I'll have like a size 10 or 12 hook with a short, short, nymph body, almost almost like the body is an eighth of an inch and the upper body just blanking on the abdomen, thank you, would be just under an eighth of an inch, so not even a full quarter.
Speaker 2:Three-sixteenths yeah, I know my measurements and they still hit it, so you know. It goes to show that a beat or a big hook isn't necessarily the thing that stops them from biting. But when we're, when I search for fish and I'm in either a system I don't know or a section I don't know, I prospect around, and that's what I always tell my guests to do is just prospect around. If you're not getting a fish. If you casted more than twice in one spot and you didn't get a fish and you're on a boat and we're going to cover a shit ton of water, move on from that spot. If I'm on foot and this is something my buddy ryan really kind of started doing more and more and so now I do more and more um, is it kind of like you start at the bottom of the run if you're euroing or dry fly fishing and you work your way up, as everyone, or most people know kind of stay behind the fish?
Speaker 2:you work, you work a run downstream to upstream I work, I start at downstream and I work up, really okay, just to stay behind the fish. Um, do I catch fish as I move up? That I've now passed sometimes, but I find the big fish, you gotta creep up on them. I mean, you know, new Zealand would be a perfect example of you know, you have to do that because it's gin clear, it's low, they're paying attention to everything and they're spooky all that good stuff. So there it's very important, but here, yeah, I I get to the run sorry places that are like that.
Speaker 2:I guess critical to do that, I guess yeah I guess it kind of it depends, because if I was using like a line, a long line to nymph, and I was going to let my nymphs swing like a dry line long leader and I was going to let my nymphs swing, maybe I wouldn't worry as much. But if I'm just going for a straight up and down Euro or dry fly, I want to be behind that big fish. Yep, no, that makes sense, and a lot of it like calmed down a lot more lately. So, like I really do walk up to a run, pay attention as I'm getting ready, um, if I'm not short on time, obviously, and I'll watch the river for a bit and wait, and most of the times within 20 minutes, if you just pay attention, you'll find that you'll see something that sparks your interest, whether it's actually seeing a good fish come out of the water, or if you just notice that there's like little flashes in the water and you're like, ok, I'm pretty sure that's fish and not just the glare that keeps catching the corner of my eye, and not just the glare that keeps catching the corner of my eye. Maybe you'll see a bug come down the river and they'll give you a clue of what needs to be tied on.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, paying attention a little bit more, working down up and I usually don't if I'm by myself, I won't target the spot that I want to hit first I'll literally kind of prepped myself with the shitty area. You know I'll be like okay, going over there. I need to need to make sure I'm all dialed up. Yeah, just to get in the mindset, because when you're under pressure, it you know, even if it's just a simple flick, that a euro rod needs to get get your fly out, or if it's an actual long bomb. Um, when you're doing it and you're trying to do it, it likes to not do it properly don't think so.
Speaker 2:You go to a field and start casting and your casting's mint, and then you go to cast to a fish and you're like I can't even do this thing, yep.
Speaker 1:Yep, that happens all too often.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and another thing I do notice, which I'm sure other people have noticed, is if I'm catching a bunch of small fish in one run, that next run, I think just from the history of me doing what I do, I've noticed that I catch the big fish in the next run and usually in that next run it's somewhere in the tail out, and usually in that next run it's somewhere in the tail out.
Speaker 2:I don't know why. I've just noticed I've, you know, spent enough time on the water that some stuff starts to become more and more of a question. Is this a thing? But there's multiple runs where I'll be catching small fish or we'll be getting to it and I'll be like this run has smaller fish and we'll catch smaller fish, and I'll be like, okay, this next run tends to have bigger fish, so be on your game. And bigger fish, uh, is it structure or is it just once again one of those uh, you know, feeding things that don't want to be close to the big ones, or the small ones don't want to be close, or, sorry, the big ones don't want to be close to the big ones, or the small ones don't want to be close, sorry, the big ones don't want to be close to the small ones, vice versa, and all that yeah, that's odd.
Speaker 1:I never I don't think I've ever fully realized that if I did like come across that on the river, yeah, and I mean with your own thing.
Speaker 2:You know we can go to a hole and catch four or five fish, or if you stay longer, you could, you could really get into them. Uh, so when you're catching especially like that day where we caught, you know a good amount, but where the two guests were, just they were on fire. And this is a big thing too, with euro or dry or streamer or any of this if you're a guest and you're starting to get tired and you're starting to just get lazier and lazier, but the other guest isn't, I almost guarantee the person that's getting lazy is just not going to be seeing fish. So I always tell people if I notice they're getting a little sloppy with their work.
Speaker 2:I'll be like, hey, you're pretty tired, have a little break. Oh yeah, here's a freaking cookie, you know. Take a moment for yourself, look around, there's a nice tree there, you know. Have, enjoy what you're in and then come back to it. And then you know, at that point too, I'll be like do you guys want to keep going or do you want to slow down and or not slow down? But do you want to speed up and and just get off the water? And most of the times people are like, oh no, I just need a little break. You're right, yeah. But once in a while people will be like, yeah, no'm done, we've hooked enough fish. I'm happy, you know day well spent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then there's people like us who are just like there's never enough fish caught, yeah, who go work eight hours and then get on the water to fish after you just spent a whole day on the water. You know, yeah, on the water, you know yeah. And so, like today, the the mom was in behind, in the back, which I I told them originally I was like front does have a bit of an advantage and I kind of wanted her up front. But then she was like no, I like the back, it's nice and spacious, and I was like that it is, and I like fishing from the back, because you just got your bag there, you got your, you got room for your line and everything it's nice. Um, but her son was, was just super on it. He had his hand up, he was fishing it really well.
Speaker 2:We started noticing that swinging flies was swinging, the nymphs was working better. I almost switched him to a dry line, but he, we talked about it and I was like it's just a whole new setup that you'd have to like learn and we're almost done the day, like you know, hopefully I see you again and and we can, then we can really try something new. And so he was. He was like, yeah, but we were, he'd cast out and just let the, the, the fly, swing across the water and boom, boom, boom, boom, um. And then another thing that I noticed with the Euro is the you cast too close or too far and you just can't control it properly. Um, like, if it's straight up and down, that's okay, but if it's coming closer to the boat it's just awkward. We get fish that way because a lot of people when they're first starting, somehow that's a lot of the, the water that they seem to be able to get into, um, but then the second people got like a little bit of an angle, coming down from their rod, tip outwards, and they're leading their fly.
Speaker 2:I don't know why, but like, if I see that, if I'm watching and they're not getting that very often and they get it, I'm like oh yeah, hold that drift, and I'll like speed up or slow down and I'll be like k k, k, bone fish, I'm done. So it's what. It's an easy way for me to kind of even hone my own skills, because I get to watch what other people are doing and I've started noticing, like now, as I mean, I already know fish are moving around. So if your fly is just doing something kind of weird in the water, that could totally be a a possibility to get a fish. So I don't stress so much during those summer months or the the spring months if people are getting sloppier, uh, throughout the day, but definitely during cold weather I'm like, okay, you got to be on this, like you're not catching a fish if you're just swinging a fly, a nymph, and that's point proven with steelhead, I didn't catch nothing.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, but yeah, when I'm, when I'm trying to locate fish and and stuff like that, it I do think quite a bit about like well, what is that fish eating? It's eating minnows. Well, it's probably going to be here if it's eating. You know, I I try to break all that down in my head to help locate it. But just paying attention to where I caught fish is what kind of water? What was the depth there? What was the scenario? Was it like super shallow but super riffly and just like raging, or was it a drop drop offs? If you want to catch rainbows and there's a bucket in and you can see that there's a dip in the water or not in the water but in the structure down below, then I'll fish it. We call that a good old nymph dump. That's a nymph dump, yeah, exactly. So it's got such a classy name like nymph dump.
Speaker 1:You know you're getting fish there. I mean like, but like, tell me I'm wrong, though. Like, is that not?
Speaker 2:no, that's a nymph dump.
Speaker 1:I never even heard that terminology and I know exactly what you're talking about the like we're a riffle, like if it, if a riffle is going pretty hard and then it like slows up and it drops into a pool that like, yeah, gravel, that leads out in there yeah that's nymph dump baby, that's nymph dump, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean, it's easy when you're out on the water constantly and like I always, oh sorry, let's see it, we're gonna go big. Oh yeah, that's what. Is that a size? It's a, it's a two watt, two watt, yeah that's big, extra strong stinger from kona you know, they would have really made it a lot simpler in the whole hook variety.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'm just uneducated, but if they would have started one at, like a shark size hook, yep, you know, and then as it goes up in number, then it would get smaller. Or let's just back up and make a size 32 dry fly hook number one. So that's your one. So it's size 32, but it would be one because it's so small. One's a small number.
Speaker 1:It would. It would make sense to go like what like a five odd hook is size 34.
Speaker 2:That would make more sense. It would, but but they can't do that in fly fishing. I guess it's that also kind of stands for other forms of fishing yeah, well, because it's like gauge of wire.
Speaker 1:So it's not really no, but like come on now.
Speaker 2:Come on guys. Come on. Most of us barely graduated, leave us alone. Yeah, I like. I like to definitely pay attention to where I caught that last fish or where the fish have been caught, caught constantly and and then, like the next day, I'll still go to those spots, but I still prospect everything else. Yeah, you know, if it's low but fast, let's fish it. If it's deep but slow, fish it. But where I'll spend most my time is where I'm catching, so I'll I'll drift down, they'll be fishing. One will hook a fish, I drop the anchor to land it and then we fish there for a bit yep then we keep moving down the river, um, you know.
Speaker 2:And then if I'm coming to a spot that I just know I also don't really say much about like oh, we'll definitely get into fish, I'll just say like I've got lots of fish in these runs or in this section, so we'll fish it really well.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, if you say that to a client, that's like the number one way to not catch a fish.
Speaker 2:That's true, we'll catch a fish here.
Speaker 1:Boom, no fish, fish. This guy sucks. I've done it way too often where, like, I'll head down to the river with my buddies and I'll be like yo, we creamed them yesterday, we're gonna like get into them today. We get to the river and it's like you couldn't pay for it.
Speaker 2:There's just a cricket making its little cricket noise and you're like, oh damn, yeah, it's a cool thing to say nothing and catch a fish or get someone a fish. When you're just like, yep, this is a good spot, let's fish here, and then they get a big one, they're like you're right. But when you call it and you're like you'll probably get a good fish here, and then you get it Feels good, but it's risque business, Okay, so Getting someone's hopes up and then not.
Speaker 1:So that exact thing happened the other day on the river. My buddy's up from out of state. He's lived in Alaska previously, he's out of state with the Coast Guard in Oregon and we're fishing this one stretch and I landed. So that day I landed three fish. I landed like a really nice, like 17 healthy, and then I landed a 23. And then I landed a 23 and then I landed 25 and the 17 and the 25 like we've all fished like the same run before, like it's it's one of our favorite spots to fish that river and I know for a fact like this 10 foot stretch of the run, like always has fish in it.
Speaker 1:Like I, I always hook fish out of this one like 10 foot section. Everything looks pretty warm all the way down but for whatever, whatever it is is like this one. This one little reach is just always hot with fish and we're fishing and like he's working behind me, we're both working down and like he hasn't hooked a fish and I was like, no, like as soon as you get to where I'm standing right here, cast center seam and just let it ride and you're gonna hook a fish. And he's mocking me. He's like oh yeah, 15 feet down center seam. Let it ride. Yeah, I'm gonna catch a fish and like, as he's mocking me, I hook, like I miss a fish and I'm like, damn so then I wish I could have caught that to rub it in his face well, so I'll one up you on that.
Speaker 1:So, like we're moving down, he finally gets to my spot and like it's it's me, him and another kid and uh, we're all like we're just having a good time on the river and we're all kind of like mocking each other and like having a time of it. And and they're both like, okay, 15 feet down center seam, let it ride. And like they're, they're mocking me as if, like I knew what was gonna happen, and in them mocking me, bobber down and then, and then, since they're like mocking me, not paying attention, he like sets up and he misses it and I'm like, why?
Speaker 2:did you miss?
Speaker 1:that I told you. You didn't want to listen to me. You wanted to listen to me. I told you what was going to happen and you fucked up you come into my house and question me, yeah it was kind of like that, but I don't know, it's always a good time, yeah, one of the things, but yeah, I don't know it's it's always a good time, but yeah, I caught one of the fish I caught.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I don't mean to to steal, no, it's all good. One of the fish I caught was missing both the upper and lower lobes to its tail.
Speaker 2:It had no tail to it, but it fought. Did it fight yeah?
Speaker 1:and still it was like well, but it like it was a 23 inch fish. It was healthy enough to keep like living and spawning like it was a. It was a fat female like a fat, but it made no sense to not have that in it, like to not have a full tail on it, and still still be going yeah yeah, I've seen some pretty messed up fish more.
Speaker 2:More in the lakes, less in the rivers. Oh yeah, um, you know, stocked fish are usually a bit of an ugly breed. Stock fish get hit hard. Stock fish get hit hard and then they spend their childhood raised in pens and tend to look like it. Hold on, I got Against being raised in a pen, though.
Speaker 1:Sorry, had to get bucktail.
Speaker 2:No, that's all good. That's all good. Yeah, I so like winter, or just higher, colder weather and then warmer, lower water. Those are two easy times to locate fish High water and it's cold. They're going to be in that hard seam close to the soft water or just straight in the soft water.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And then during the summer they're going to be in the riffly water. Reason being cold winter. That fast moving water has less oxygen and is colder. So the warmer, more oxygenated water is in the shot or is maybe not shallow but is the softer stuff. So they like hanging out more there. And then the summer has or spring, as it starts to get into summer and stuff like that you find them a lot more in in the cooler water, which would be the faster, which then also has more oxygen at that time of the year. So it's the months in between that can be a little peckish at times.
Speaker 1:It's the months in between where they're found literally anywhere.
Speaker 2:Anywhere. It's a tough time. I find the hardest thing is really that transition period where one day you're catching them in the winter areas and you go sorry, I got the hiccups, not the hiccups. I don't know what's going on. I don't know what this is. What are we doing? Um man, that's the question, that they're that transition stage where they're not. I feel like they're just not super happy. So they're obviously now looking for a new location and because of that, you know they're less willing to grab. But you know I'll have good fishing and then next day can't catch a fish for the life of me in those spots, and so I obviously keep prospecting in new areas, new types of water, and then you know we'll get some fish here or there and then, like a week, you know, a few days or a week later, all of a sudden it's like oh yeah, spring spots, spring spots. At that point it's just rifling through all these locations and trying to have people on it and, you know, trying to have people on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that and like I mean, if you think about fish are in the business of conserving energy as much as possible, so they will. They'll always be hanging in like well, I shouldn't say always, but they're typically going to be hanging in those like hard seams where, like next to current breaks. So if there's a fast water right next to a like a slow eddy, they'll be hanging right on the edge of that um. They'll be hanging right behind like big runs in a run, because there's like slow water eddies right behind that um where they can conserve energy yeah, and then it's also uh, it's a, they're looking for their, their conveyor belt of food well, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1:So like that, that seam, if you seem, or the eddie behind the rock, they can, just they can sit there and just like sit right behind it and then pop out and move right back in and be able to conserve as much energy as possible 100, and then that conveyor belt of food a way I like to kind of describe it sometimes, um, it's someone like I just tell they're not really understanding what I'm getting at.
Speaker 2:I'll straight throw like a stick up, um, up into the middle of the river as we're going down with the river and I'll be like, watch the stick, it will get into a seam eventually. No matter how long it takes, it will arrive to the point where it's going into a seam. The same thing happens for the food sources. If it's making it down far enough before it breaks the surface and flies away or whatever, it's going to a seam, it's going to get into a seam. So you know, if someone's cast and they're just past the seam, I'm like just trying to pull it gently, allow it, like you know, just angle it so it gets in that seam and ride the seam. I'm like just trying to pull it gently, allow it, like you know, just angle it so it gets in that seam, ride the seam and almost. You know.
Speaker 2:Obviously we can't say nine times out of ten, but let's just imagine we're crazy people that would say that nine times out of ten, yeah it right, as that enters and it starts to get the proper flow and then boom fish on, um you know, and then short like really shallow waters. Shallow and fast water is my favorite to do, especially with new clients. We lose more flies. But that fish is yes or no.
Speaker 1:He's taking it or he's not yeah, because they have such a shorter amount of time to think about whether they want it or not. It's, yeah, like it shows up in front of them and they're like they either got to eat it right now or not eat at all yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's like right now, if I'm on foot, I'm fishing fast water. I have a buddy who I've seen multiple times on the river. Now I'm like, dude, you go into some spots. He's a fishy guy. I've seen him where I wouldn't stand. If you were like Andrew, I'm down here with the raft, I'll save your life if you die, you know it's. I saw him the other week and I was like I was like out a little far are we? And he's like there's a big brown that lives there and I was like I know, I know I've got him, you know that's. I was like I was coming over here to get him and then, and then we laughed about that. But you know, if you're, if you're on foot and you walk up and there's 10 people fishing, you have walked where everyone walks to.
Speaker 1:You're probably not going to see a really nice fish or a ton of fish that means there is some like if it's, if it's like a fairly, fairly popular river, you can A lot of people pass by a lot of water to go to the major popular spots. You can get a lot of fish in that secondary water that everybody passes by.
Speaker 2:That is true. That is true too. Or even sometimes like I don't want to pull the spot out, but I guess, if anyone's listening and you're on the couch and river, if you're going to spring pool, which is the first spot to fly only, and you haven't at least attempted to go up higher, what are you doing? You know there's some good fishing to be had in the like the first run above it, and I never see people there, and if I do, it's someone I know yeah you know, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It's one of those things like I, if I got to a spot easily, it's probably been fished, if I'm not first light there yep you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So for me it's like I'd rather go on that harder walk, even especially for steelhead, like I'd it's if I know that it takes long to get to there. I can almost guarantee no one else has done it, unless they're as crazy as me, which that does happen. Yeah, if it's risking your life to get to. Yeah, probably no one else has gone there and you'll probably get a good fish.
Speaker 2:I mean, like any dedicated fly angler or fisher in general will know that, like the common spots that everybody likes to go yeah, they'll catch fish, but to like really get into them and like you've got to get off that beaten path, right, yeah, like super deep, like there's a couple of bends that I rarely get my clients to get fish in, or I don't know if that sentence didn't make a ton of sense, but um, they rarely get fish in it, but if I fish it, even if I try to explain it to people, it's just just, it's complicated.
Speaker 2:My thing is I tried like 10 times to to do one thing and if I get out of that, 10 times did it properly, I'm probably getting that fish. That's there, if he is there, and but it was some weird thing. So I'll, like, cast like super high up into the riffle, let it drop and then start pulling line off my reel and just let it keep sinking, keep doing it, and then it'll start swinging out around the bend and get all the way to the rocks on the other side, but deeper than you could get if you tried to nymph it from a moving boat. Yep, yep, yep, and. And I've gotten some, some good fish that way. So I do weird shit on my own that I would never try to make you know.
Speaker 2:If they're really experienced, maybe I'll explain, like hey, if you yeah, but like that's how you learn right well, yeah, if you keep trying and get to get down as deep as possible, you'll probably get something that most people don't get like if you never fuck around, you never find out you know, gotta fuck around a little bit.
Speaker 1:Two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve, 14 you ever do any salt fishing or anything like that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I've been. Uh, well, now that I'm so busy I won't be able to go for sea runs, but I like going for sea runs. Um, haven't had much success at it. I've hooked them. Uh, yeah, just you know they're spazzy and and then I find them. Um, why, why I go for tougher species and then wonder why I don't catch fish all that often is beyond me. I ponder that every night, otherwise it would be too easy. It would be too easy. That is it. I guess We'll say that I find it. I do like the challenge. It's like, if you know, I like shooting bows but I like shooting. I have a compound but I really like shooting traditional yeah traditional is fun.
Speaker 2:Traditional is fun. I'm not hunting right now, at least, so you know. But even at that, if I were to start hunting, I would probably still try to hunt with a traditional bow. I like the challenge, I like the idea that not everyone can do it and I like the idea that not everyone even gives it a try yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not a super common so I was trying to feed my family. Yeah, I'm taking a rifle out, but if I'm just, you know, hunting and wanting some meat, then I guess bow season and then it's usually rifle season anyway, so you have a short bow season and if it doesn't happen, then you're on to the rifles anyways. I guess they in some areas they overlap and everything's a little different depending where you are. But yeah, um, something about the, the challenge, and I guess that's what most people like, because you know, you're constantly learning, constantly seeing new shit. You know even, I guess, my guest today asked me.
Speaker 2:She was like, can you do this almost every day? And I was like, during the season, she's like you don't get tired of it. And I was like listen, lady. No, I didn't say that. But hey, you, listen, lady. I'm on a ladder right now, yeah, but I could be on a ladder. I have the other job, so I know what I could be doing instead of doing that. So it's like, even on a ladder, I have the other job, so I know what I could be doing instead of doing that. So it's like, even on the worst day, I'm pretty tickled pink that I'm doing what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like, it's like, lady, look at what I'm actively doing. Right now I'm in the middle of a beautiful area. How many other people do you see around me?
Speaker 2:and we're doing is interacting with nature interacting with nature and your son is smiling right now. Yeah, what's better than that, you know? Yeah, it could be right now. I gave gave this kid. I saw him fishing on the bank. He had his family out and his grandparents were fishing and he was just tying up a fly, and so I went behind everyone so I was pretty much like going to run into him almost, and I pulled up to him and I was like here, buddy, these are my most effective flies that I have the most faith in on this river. And so I gave him four flies two of the one I'm tying now and then, um, two of the other one that I like to use the most.
Speaker 2:And, uh, as I was going away, I guess my guest was like looking back at him. He's like, dude, that kid's smile was literally like breaking his face. He's like yeah, that's what it's about. Yeah, like I, I have no stress. Like if I put this fly out on instagram, I wouldn't be like, oh my, I won't catch a fish again. I just have never experienced that, you know. Like.
Speaker 1:I don't understand and I don't think I ever will understand. Like fly fishermen who are like for lack of better terms just fucking pricks. Like there's a way to be, like you know you don't got to tell everybody everything, right, I understand that. But if somebody asks you like hey, you know you catch anything on the river today, Like how's it going, whatever? Like there's no need to just like blow them off and like be super tight lipped about it, like you could, andrew, you can just humble the truth. You could, Andrew, just tumble the truth and you know, say, here you go, I was fishing this run and I can still catch zero fish yeah, that's a very good point okay, so you're fishing it down right on the bottom.
Speaker 1:You give me that fly and say, hey, fish this in this run. You're not knowing what to do. I could be fishing it two feet under the surface. Yeah, like, just because you have the fly and know vaguely where to go doesn't mean that like you're doing them like, exploit the system.
Speaker 2:No, that's like even your like honey holes, that you love fishing. I know it's like it's a touchy subject and no, I'm not giving up all my my spots. But at the same time, you know, if I'm fishing with someone and I'm there, or if I'm fishing and I see someone fishing close to my spot, I'll be like have you tried over there? And they're like no Interesting Some would you know, and just let them. Let them ponder that for a second and decide like, oh, should I?
Speaker 1:be some of my greatest buddies that I've that I fish with are buddies who I've met on the river who were just like just open to chat, or like they're like never passing me by, they had no idea what to do, and I gave them a fly and I was like here to try, or like they're like never passing me by, they had no idea what to do and I gave them a fly and I was like here to try this, like I just crushed it on this, and they're like, oh whoa, that's like super dope of you to give me that and to help me out, like and it it's almost like it's this groundbreaking know it's obviously there's always going to be that stickler or whatever.
Speaker 2:I find it's a huge number, but it's not. That is like super positive. And then there's a small, small percentage. But yeah, I, you know I fish with people obviously quite a bit with the guiding and all that. And you know I've had guides where I've gone on guided trips where they're like don't tell anyone that this is what I use and it's like okay, but once again, even if I blew up up that you're still going to catch fish, he's still going catch fish. Everyone's going to still catch fish, you know yeah, and like that.
Speaker 1:That's not me saying that I'm gonna like go out and like blow up a spot on somebody. Like I'm not gonna go blow somebody else's spot up if they like, if if you were to take me to the river and show me a spot, I won't tell anybody else where I went. It's your spot, right? Sure, yeah, but like, if I like there's people who will blur the backgrounds or their photos and all that, yeah, and the way I see it is like if you can tell where I was fishing based on the photo that I posted, you should go there. Know about that fishing spot? Yeah, right, like you don't. You don't need the help or you don't need me to tell you where I was fishing. You already know.
Speaker 2:Yeah does and it's that fish got caught. So are you going to actually catch that fish? Um, my one of my good friends, he, I think I guess two years ago he caught a I think it was a steelhead, but he blurred out the fish instead of the scenery and he was like, am I doing this right? I'm going to comment underneath just to control that whole scenario. It was so funny. I was like, yeah, that's the way to do it. But yeah, I've never blurred a spot. Realistically. I haven't even been posting my photos of fish lately.
Speaker 2:I kind of got to a point where I was like, oh yeah, the fishing's for me, so will I? I want to make reels, it's just time. I mean, we were just talking about how, you know, I'm pretty much working either construction or guiding, with almost no days off for the next like 40 plus days, and those days off that I did book all the days off I booked off have ended up turning into days I'm guiding. So, uh, yeah, you know how much time do we have to these days? This is going down. So it's it's tough to juggling life and all that doing this podcast. It's it's been tough.
Speaker 2:Lately. I've been having, um, like lining up people, and you know, coming to the date and them needing to reschedule, which is totally fine, it's. It's not a you know. But then I get to a point where I'm more stressed because, like today, it's sunday episode comes out. Tomorrow it's 9 11 pm. I still have to do a little bit of editing and make sure I'm all ready for bed, so it's going to be a late night. Yeah, yeah, hard to hard to manage that. But you know, at least let's say for the podcast, it's, this part's easy. We're chatting this, this is fine, um.
Speaker 2:So, that being actually said, I have pondered if I should kind of tone it down to two episodes a month, uh, just during this guiding season. Um, the sound of that actually like calms me down, but that at the same time, I'm like, oh, I want to pump out those. So, yeah, I guess this is a good point to say it. If, if there isn't an episode that I post, I'm just this busy, like just super busy. I want to post them, but I want to get them out. But other people are busy too. You know that when I started the podcast it was during COVID. Everyone was stuck at home, um, or I guess it was just after, when everyone was really like stuck, stuck at home, but it was still like people were doing less. Now people are starting to travel more and more. They're starting to. You know, a couple of them had new jobs starting, so it just like wasn't just needed time um it's.
Speaker 2:It's funny how life gets in the way you know life gets in the way and then I've been way more at home with my kid, whereas when I first started the podcast yeah, when I first started the podcast, I'm not going to lie I was putting more time into my, my podcast than my family. Uh, in a sense, you know, because for this podcast to work I need to connect with people multiple people and set up when they're going to be able to do the podcast, when I got time to do the podcast. If they're from the east coast versus the west coast, or if they're in another country, that's a whole time zone thing. Now I gotta find the day that that works, you know, so it's. It's the last month and a bit two months almost has been the hardest time for me to get episodes made, not because I can't do the recording, but because I message people, I set it all up and you know one person works out and the other three don't, and then it's, whereas before it was like they almost always worked out. Um, you know, people were all that. And then time of day, you know it's. I really don't like that. I have to do it at night because my brain's not functioning half as well. I'm tired, I've had the full day and I now have to stay up to do it, which is fine. I usually go to bed around 10 and start recording around 8 anyways, so it leaves room for a two-hour podcast, but yeah, it just gets challenging. Uh, also kind of really nice. Like a little bit ago I just messed, or I made a little podcast or not a podcast, but kind of more of an update and posted it about. You know, just if anyone has anything they want to say and send me a message and stuff. And not a lot of people actually did it, but the few that did gave me a little insight on the podcast what they like, what they don't like oh nice, and then things that they want to hear of more, which is pretty much just about fishing, weirdly enough. So it worked out well. But yeah, there's going to be a time where I miss episodes nowadays because I'm trying to focus so much more on what I'm doing in the other realms. My son's family my son fucking bless his heart. I got home from work. The other realms family my son's my son fucking bless his heart.
Speaker 2:I got home from work the other day and the wife was like you need to, um, talk to your son about going down and into your fly tying room. I was doing I saw that, uh yeah, and he, he tied his first fly by himself. But what's really cool is when we would tie flies together. It would be me doing a lot of the whipping and a lot of the technical stuff. So when I got home and I saw the fly. So when I got home and I saw the fly, it had dumbbell eyes tied on it. I know people listening can't really see it. There it is, it has dumbbell eyes where he cross-wrapped it on. Oh really. So he cross-wrapped it the one way and then went the other way and then tied a freaking knot to make sure his shit stayed on.
Speaker 2:And then I was like, okay, I need to see this in action. So I was like okay, luca, you want to tie another one. And he was like hey, luca, you want to try another one. And he was like yeah, so he gets. I pass him the hook. He puts the hook in the vice, clamps it down, checks the hook Like the way that you see people on, like you know, checks the hook, grabs the bobbin, grabs the line, pulls a bit out, wraps it around his finger like I do it, wraps it around the shank, works back over it, cuts the tag end off.
Speaker 2:And I was just like, oh my God, brad Dowd moment, right there, dude, I was literally on such a high. And then he's like okay, so I'm going to be using this stuff here and I was like dubbing and he's like, yep, the dubbing. He opens it up and he's like ooh, purple, I like purple. So he grabs like a wad of that and he's like starts rolling it onto the thread, making a little noodle. But it was a fat noodle. He was like 80% more dubbing than there is on earth. Basically, um, wraps the noodle on, wraps that around. He's like okay, dad, I need deer hair. I was like all right, here's the deer hair, son.
Speaker 2:And he gets the deer hair out and I showed him how I do it, just to like pull off a chunk of deer hair, pinch it and cut it yeah and then he proceeds to go over my little garbage and starts thumbing it and like knocking out all the fucking fibers, and then pulls off like half of it and dumps that, and then takes that one and puts it on his fly and wraps it. I have it here, damn. And how old is he? He is four Now. I'm sorry this looks like not much, but this would probably freaking catch a fish.
Speaker 1:That will catch a fish. That's the thing that will.
Speaker 2:That will catch a fish.
Speaker 1:So not saying it's a bad fly, but there's one thing I'll always say it's there's always one fish dumb enough yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 2:It kind of looks like a massive caddis. That's what I would think it would look like from the water if a fish grabbed it.
Speaker 1:Massive caddis either that or some sort of like big hopper or something like that, that's true, that could be a hopper, this could be great for a hopper dropper setup.
Speaker 2:And then, uh, yeah, and then he, he, it just was so cool because, like, I was always kind of doing it, which is a good um, a good point to prove that you just gotta let little kids do it. Oh yeah, I kept wanting to intervene and I really was like backing myself off because I was like, dude, this is wild, um, let kid. Then he tried to wrap a hackle but it wasn't working. So he was like, oh no, this doesn't, this doesn't go here, you know. But in my head I was like you just can't, son, no, but yeah, proud, proud father moment. I literally like I videoed the the other fly. He tied and that's all. Now I got another chair down here, so he has his own vice. He's got a nice rinsetti traveler, he's all about it. He doesn't know what that is, but that's cool, um, and then all my old materials. I was like, ah, that's who. I'm saving it for all the materials I don't use that freaking thousands of dollars of shit that I will never tie with. Yeah, now has a home.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, it is funny that he tied on on a size six hook. He tied on a full um pheasant tail feather and he called, he called the front part. He's like that's the horn, yeah, yeah, because it's the stem of it, so that's the horn. And then he was like, okay, now I just need to paint it up. And he grabs my sharpie and starts making bands on the feather, because that's what I do with some of my hackles and stuff. And so he does that. And then he takes, uh, and then he took, he grabs the glue and throws a little glue on it and I was like, okay, well, obviously I tie way too many flies in front of him if he's tying it. So now my whole plan is once he's like five or six and capable of tying my nymphs, he's hired. Yeah, I'll pay him a small amount. It's called sweat labor or something like that, you want dinner tonight?
Speaker 1:Go tie a dozen yeah go tie a dozen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'll be his first job. My goal with him is to really get him like comfortable with currency and like understanding that you got to work for it if you want it. Uh, because if we're both going to be into fly fishing, I can't afford two people fishing as hard as I do. But if he makes his own currency doing it, yeah, we can, we can go fish, uh. So, yeah, that was super cool and and he has like a bunch of my old boxes that, uh, I give my old flies and so he has almost every other day, maybe every three days. He's like dad, do you want to look at the flies? And they all have a new name every three days. Yeah, all catch these incredible fish we've never even heard of. Um, yeah, it's amazing, the, the species that he knows about that no other human being on earth has ever even seen. But yeah, he's, he's on it. So want to get him out fishing more and more. So I've been trying to get him to cast or practice casting more.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Little resistance there. So I think it. Yeah, I think it. Just, you know it's tough, it you know it's tough, it'll come in time. It'll come in time. Yeah, I think it's one of those things that he's never experienced. What being able to cast can do for him, so you know. But he's also getting into lacrosse too right now. So I've been practicing lacrosse with him because he was cheating a lot. He's also getting into lacrosse too right now. So I'm been practicing lacrosse with him. He was cheating a lot, he's a fucking cheater. Oh yeah, buddy, he is fucking.
Speaker 2:There's like cone set up and there's half the team was there split up the team into into two sections and half of them had balls and the other half were supposed to try to knock the ball out of the lacrosse stick of the other player. Yeah, and they all start running and my son just fucking darts around all the cones like does a giant wide berth and goes right to the other end. I was just like, yep, that's how you win in this world. No, but yeah, it was good.
Speaker 2:So yeah, is the the tying flies and the stories he tells me during the the fly tying session, and every once in a while he'll tell me like, oh you, you shouldn't do it. Like that, dad, you gotta put more on or you gotta do this. And I'm like, yeah, says you bitch. No, I think these things guys, I don't say them, come on um. But yeah, yeah, it's funny, he talked. He talks about the adventures that we used to do when he was younger. He's like oh yeah, you know, I didn't fish for that fish. I'm like oh yeah, that's crazy. You remember that before you were born. That's amazing, that's a talent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's, I mean. I mean, it sounds like he's on track, though If he's already that good of a storyteller man, he's going to be the world's best fisherman, that's true, the fish was this big.
Speaker 2:I would think he would uh like I would take. I'm going to definitely take him down the river next salmon season. Uh, just uh. I think that would just be a cool day with him and his mom. Um, if I can get her to come out, then I will. If she doesn't want to come, well, I'll take one of my buddies and we'll go down, because, yeah, you know, you've got to experience these things when you're young. I want him to eat, breathe and think fishing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, while there still are fish to catch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and then I'll take them out of school and I'll be like today we're doing math. If I catch three fish and lost two flies, how many flies do you have left? Zero, because they're all mine, damn it no, you know, but it'll be. It'll be an educational day.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Yep, you want to learn English? I'll teach you English. Come fish with me. No, it's all theory work. It's all theory work right now. But yeah, it's been really cool watching him be able to like absorb so much of the fishing terminology. Um, you know, he knows, he knows what a dry fly is. He knows what a streamer is. He knows what a nymph is. He knows what a neg is. He knows, you know, what's on the bottom, what's on the top, all these things that I'm just like damn sound like. Most people do not know this, and you're just a little bit of a legend already, so dude.
Speaker 1:That's. That's awesome for you. That'll be many, many good years ahead of you many good years ahead of me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would like we've talked about it. If we can make it happen and if we can get the farm running on its own and I decide to go guide somewhere and was able to figure out a way of bringing my family, then they would come with me. So for the future it could lead towards guiding almost full time or something, or at least have them come out for like a month or something like that, just to not be gone so long. This year I have not have to. I guess I'm.
Speaker 2:This is a choice I'm making, but I'm just I've decided to to go away for three months, which is a little bit hard to fathom even when I think about it. So it's like, yeah, it's going to be tough on the family and all that, but the money is right. The fact that I can just go there and I basically work every day for three months is going to make a difference in the bank account versus if I stay home and work five days a week and don't do what I love. So it's like one will push us forward in life. One I'll be home every night with my family and it's like god, if it wasn't for how expensive things were. Maybe I would have a different look on how, on how long I would go for or what I would do. But I mean anyone in Canada and the U? S and I guess the rest of the world right now are just like being chewed alive by our governments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just. I just filed my taxes today. I have to pay $2,000 to the government.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm scared for my taxes this year because I have two jobs and then that always means that you're paying more Yep and I saved very little for my taxes, mostly because it's been such a struggle this year.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. So let's get away from the dark and dismal for a second. What's your favorite fishing memory? My favorite fishing memory, not memory what's the most memorable catch you've ever had?
Speaker 2:I'll leave steelhead out of it, because steelhead I've said this, the same story enough times probably my most memorable and I have said this before, but I think it would be my first Brown trout on on the river. Okay, that was a pretty big turning point in my life in terms of my fishing career. I stood in the same spot at that pool I was talking about, so where everyone walks up for their first for the walk and wade section, spring pool there with a sinking line and some fucking ugly nymphs that I tied up yep, I think I have one of them somewhere and it's just atrocious. But, um, I fished for maybe five hours in about a 10 foot span of water, yep, and a gentleman came up to me and was like I was going, you know all that small talk and it's like you've been here for a while, and I was like all day, basically. And he was like all day here, you know, at this one spot, and I was like, yeah, I just been working this water, like. And he was like, okay, you need to learn some stuff, you need to cover water and you need to explore more. And I was like, okay, I just never been here and that was pretty long hiking and he was like you think that's a long hike, wait till you start hiking to the other spots.
Speaker 2:You know, I was like oh, okay, um, and he's. And I was like he's like what are you using? So I showed him my box and he kind of had a smirk on his face, just like yeah, okay, they were massive nymphs, like, I'm talking, size of a stone fly and I was supposed to be a mayfly, you know, just, god, awfully. And so he's like here, try this. And he passes me um a purple, um leech, and it might've been an egg sucking leech, I don't think it is, it was, but it could have very well could have been a purple egg sucking leech. And I looked at it and I was like, okay, thank you, put it on.
Speaker 2:Took one, maybe two, three casts at most, but it happened very fast. Yeah, this was like seven years ago, so some of the little details kind of disappeared. But I cast it out and he just walked me through what to do. He's like, let it swing, let it swing, let it swing. And he's like, okay, let it hang. And now it was just in the you know, know, straight, straight in front of me, um, hanging down river and he's like okay, now strip it back and do that again. And I was, I was stripping back just wham and it was a nice like maybe 18 inch brown. Yeah, it was my like you know, maybe fourth fish on the river. You know, maybe fourth fish on the river, um, and he like he was like damn and I was like what, and he was like I've never caught a brown trout on this river.
Speaker 2:I was just like now that I think back on that I fricking basically never use leeches egg sucking leeches on the river for sure, but my river does not use leeches. Egg-sucking leeches on the river for sure, but my river does not have leeches. There's not a food source the lake that it feeds out of. I don't know 100%, but I've never seen a leech. I haven't pumped fish's stomachs to really know, but yeah, I haven't pumped fish's stomachs to really know. But yeah, that to me, is is the most memorable fish, though, because it was the moment that I like fell in love a hundred percent with the river.
Speaker 2:Uh, I, I think for the next year I was there twice a week, and rain or shine, and then any other extra day off. I possibly could get bought all my rods at that point that you know, not all of them, but I bought. I had a five weight and an eight weight, and a year later I had a a 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 weight, with all the reels to go. So, yeah, money management was something I learned that year as well, mostly how to poorly manage it. Yep, bank account wasn't happy. I was happy, though, and yeah, what about you?
Speaker 1:I was happy, though, and uh, yeah, what about you? Um, as far as like, most memorable fish, like there there there's probably like one of the one of the more meaningful fish, more than a more memorable fish, um, my two two years ago. One of my best buddies. He got, um, a more memorable fish Two years ago. One of my best buddies. He got shot and did not survive, but he was like a brother to me and we used to float on the river a lot to me and we used to float on the river a lot.
Speaker 1:And uh, then, when his uh, I guess like wake was gonna be, I went down and I fished the river instead. Uh, kind of just like in his memory, and uh, that day, like it was, it was a beautiful day on the river and my buddies and I were fishing this section, and we got to this section and we were fishing it and we were fishing it all day and like we had like one hit and it was like, oh, you know, like it's gonna like you know it'll probably turn on here soon. And uh, we like caught a fish that was really nice, and then he had always talked about how the biggest fish that he caught on that river was a 26 inch trout. Um, and like 26 is aren't uncommon but like they're, they're less common. Like you know, as you get higher in the twenties, like you know, they get less and less common. But like those 18 to twenties are, like you know, kind of a dime, a dozen.
Speaker 1:And uh, we're fishing and I hook this fish and I'm like fighting it out and I have like the, the small fish pond nets, the they're 18 inches from front to back, right, the, so it's like the nomads that are like 32 inches long, so they have an 18 inch handle, 18 inch basket on them. And uh, I'm fighting this fish and we see it and like it like finally rolls on the top and it was me and three buddies, or me and two buddies, and we all like kind of just like stop for a second. And we're all like, oh fuck, here we go because like, we realized like how big of a fish it was and uh, I'm fighting it out and then we finally get it to the net and it's just massive, it's the biggest, like hands down, without even measuring it. I know it's the biggest bow that I've ever caught. And uh, we like measured on the net real quick, take some really nice photos of it and dump it and let it go. And, uh, I like looked at the measurements on the net and in my mind I read it as 24, because I was like looking at the numbers and I wanted to get the fish back and all that like I didn't fully register how big of a fish it was.
Speaker 1:And then, uh, we go on to catch like probably 12 fish that day, all over 24 inches. Well, uh, all over like 23 inches. So like we put some numbers to the net like just big fish after big fish, after big fish after big fish, uh, but that first fish that I caught was the biggest. And then, like, when we measured out the other, like 23s and 24s, like looking, like, thinking back on it later on, I was like man, that first fish seemed like it was a lot bigger than all the rest and I'm looking at my camera because I took a photo of it purposely. I took a photo of it lying down on the net so you could see the numbers. Looking back, and I'm like, dude, that was 26, yeah, and and I was like jack's biggest was episode 26. And he caught it on his wake day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I don't. I'm not religious to any extent, I don't believe in anything higher above or anything like that, but wherever he was, he was with us that day and yeah, like that was and like to this day, that's still my biggest rainbow and it was just like this day, that's still my biggest rainbow, and it was. It was just like a very meaningful day to catch it and like beautiful day of us all, like just laying into big fish and then the fact that it was like a 26 on his you know Memorial day and then like, oddly enough, this last Thanksgiving, when I was fishing and I was swinging and I was on the river and like I was just kind of like you know, wherever you're at, I hope you're doing good you know, miss you and I wish you'd be on the river with me.
Speaker 1:And, like, three seconds later, in that swing man, a fish hit and I caught a fish I caught like the only fish that day between four of us and it was a coho, and that coho was 26 inches and whatever it is like if you want to believe in whatever higher power or whatever it is like she, she was there with us again that day, like, so, you know, definitely most most memorable, not most meaningful, well, probably most meaningful, yeah, but, like you know, there there's a. At this point, both of us have caught, you know, thousands of fish, but only a few of them stand out and that that was definitely one of those fish. That was like this this isn't getting forgotten, you know, yeah so yeah, that's, that's a good one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel it. Man he was. He was in the water, probably grabbing the fish, put it on your hook, yeah, a couple times sending it up. You know he was putting in his work.
Speaker 1:So yeah, no, it was, it was, it was a real special day and a real special fish. And like, oh, I can, I can send you a photo of it after. And like man, it was, actually I'll pull it up and I'll put it on the camera so people can see it. But like it was 26 by a lot man, it was 26 by a lot man, it was 26 by a lot. But and then like I mean there's other like cool fish, Like my first fish in Alaska was a grayling and I've always wanted to catch a grayling. That was cool, yeah, and it was like a 17-inch grayling, Like first fish in Alaska, and I was like this is how I'm greeted is by this like beautiful big fish, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:On a separate note, the guy that I work for. He's just left for the Columbia today, so he'll be guiding on the Columbia up in Canada, yeah, yeah, on a jet boat and stuff. So it's a new venture for him. That'd be sweet. If you're listening, ray, I'll be there too someday. But yeah, I think that's super cool.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you can see it. Oh my God, yeah, that was the fish. And then that's it lying on the net. Yeah, just absolutely massive fish. Right, I haven't touched a fish that big since. I've caught 25s that you know. Like this past weekend, or actually Wednesday, I took off work on Wednesday and I went down and I caught a really nice like 25-inch fish, but like still that fish, that other fish, that other fish the other fish had the shoulders to go with it, dude yeah.
Speaker 1:That. So that was that was fun. Like my first steelhead, too was like really awesome. I mean, well, it was a, it was a great lakes fish. So, whether you want to call it a steelhead or whatever you want to call it my, my first migratory phase rainbow uh, like fishing on like eight pound test and like hooked it and I was like fighting it out, fighting it out, fighting out, fighting out. My buddy was like coming up behind it with a net and line snapped and he just like just gave it a go. He took the net and he just goes between his legs because, like the, the fish was holding and it kind of like, just like turned and started drifting down. He sticks the net down and just like catches the fish as it's falling back downstream and lifts it up and it's this like, yeah, e8 or 29 inch, like super fat, healthy steelhead, and I was like yeah, that's legendary.
Speaker 2:I uh, today, I the lady she hooked a fish and it jumped and as it jumped, the hook flew out and my fucking net just went under it and scooped it up and I was like, oh, I got it in the air. What, what? I catch them in the air, honestly, quite a bit when they jump out of the water, because most of the time guests lose them. So I've, you know, like I said, I got lacrosse skills a little bit, my way around a stick and uh, so I I take pride in those moments. But that today was cool because, literally, like, I watched the fly like leave its mouth and I was like, no, you know, everything slowed down for that second too, in a sense, and it was cool. But yeah, on that note, I'm uh, I need to get ready for bed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah, some, uh, some story time right before bed. Am I right a little?
Speaker 2:story time before bed. So, mitch, I appreciate you coming on because, like I said, I've been having a struggle to. I got people in, but they're, they needed more time and so now I have, like them, booked later on. Yeah, and those were all the people I kind of worked on. So, yeah, it's just been a little bit of a challenge, the shit. I'm always here to the shit. That's good, because I'll probably lean on you a little bit more, uh, throughout the next month here. So, absolutely, brother, yeah, if I, if I run into the the, the, uh, the situation, then I will definitely hit you up. Yeah, absolutely, man, all right, well, on that note, uh, we'll say good night and until next time, absolutely good night cheers tight lines man.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Good night Cheers Tight lines man.