Resilience and Empowerment: Rachele Royale's Journey Through Tragedy, Healing, and the Music Industry

Rachele Royale's journey through the music and entertainment industry is nothing short of extraordinary. Known for her powerhouse vocals and multifaceted talents, she opens up about the personal trials that have shaped her path, including the heart-wrenching loss of her mother to suicide and surviving sexual assault. Listen as she passionately shares her mission to empower women by teaching them self-sufficiency through skills like engineering and producing, aiming to reduce the need for compromising situations in the industry. With her latest project, "Haus of Royale," Rachele sheds light on the often unseen realities of Hollywood, providing a platform for diverse voices and experiences.

The episode doesn't shy away from the darker aspects of navigating the industry, as it delves into the emotional and psychological tolls of betrayal and gaslighting. Rachele emphasizes the importance of seeking clarity and concrete answers in business dealings, particularly regarding ownership of masters and the terms of agreements. Documentation becomes a crucial tool for ensuring transparency and accountability. The painful realization that an apology may never come can be daunting, but Rachele’s insights offer a path forward, highlighting personal growth and the importance of moving beyond such betrayals.

Grief, healing, and emotional reactivity are also at the forefront of this discussion. Rachele’s raw exploration of how past traumas influence creative expression is both poignant and relatable. The conversation underscores the significance of therapies like EMDR in managing traumatic memories and the vital role of supportive female friendships in overcoming societal expectations and shame. Navigating intuition, relationships, and emotional reactivity, especially in the context of trusting oneself after years of self-abandonment, is a nuanced journey. This episode is a heartfelt and empowering dialogue that champions the strength, resilience, and mutual growth of women in both personal and professional realms.

Chapters

• 0:00 Empowering Women in Music and Business
• 10:38 Seeking Answers and Closure in Betrayal
• 15:43 Navigating Grief and Healing in Friendship
• 26:10 Women Overcoming Shame and Trauma
• 46:10 Navigating Intuition and Relationships
• 56:50 Exploring Emotional Reactivity and Growth

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome back everybody to the truth about addiction. Today's guest is a dear friend of mine. I love this woman so much, boy, has she been through it? She has a story to tell we're going to dive right in. This conversation is a little different than some of my others, a little different than some of my others, but we just don't waste any time and I cannot wait for you guys to meet her and hopefully get inspired by her story and her mission.

Speaker 1: 0:38

Rochelle Royale is an independent artist known for her powerhouse vocals and top 40 pop lyrics. She is a top liner, writer, actress, dancer and producer. Her music has been featured on Sirius XM 104.3, myfm, mtv, mtv Soundtrack, vh1, cmt, nfl, nba Audience Network and Universal. Her first album was produced by legend Mutt Lang. Her pop hit, tap Dat, has been used all over the world for TV and film and choreography. Rochelle's single, last Time, produced by Brandon Sammons, became well-known after appearing alongside Travis Mills' artist Spotlight on MTV. Last Time was also endorsed and submitted for a Grammy nomination.

Speaker 1: 1:31

Rochelle's latest project, house of Royale, is a pop culture mental health podcast aimed to shed light on the truth of the entertainment industry. After losing her mother to suicide, surviving sexual assault, dealing with shady Hollywood characters. Rochelle decided it was time to get these stories on camera and out to the public, interviewing singers, comedians, actors, writers, fashion designers, hmus all walks of the industry to shed light on personal experiences. I want to encourage women to learn how to engineer, produce, do it all on their own, so we don't have to be compromised anymore, ever again. You can watch full, hour-long episodes on youtubecom slash Rochelle Royale Music and Spotify House of Royale. New music is also underway, with a pop club EP coming this summer. In addition, download Song of the Month on the podcast Patreon page patreoncom slash houseofroyale.

Speaker 3: 2:59

Let's get started and I will listen. I can listen. Oh, I will listen to you.

Speaker 2: 3:11

You know, here's why women are awesome. And then I remember that I am so excited to be and to make life more enjoyable and more productive for women, because that's what I personally need and want, you know, and that's it, because it's like I think I'm just going to be one of those people that probably doesn't get married just because I don't have the patience. I just don't. But, like for women, I have the patience because I know that I want to live life with happiness. You know, like, like, for example. Like life with happiness. You know, like, like, for example, like it's becoming more and more common for women to just have a child without a father, and like Whitney Cummings just did that and then Lala Kent just got pregnant by insemination or whatever. And like Lala Kent stated that she's so traumatized by what she went through with her past husband that she literally cannot deal with another partner. Like she doesn't even want to share her children because she doesn't want to go through the heartbreak. And it was like the Heather McDonald podcast and Heather's two guests are a lesbian couple and so of course they're loving this, but one of the guests host she was like I don't blame women for not wanting to include a man in that process and for the first time in my life, I was kind of like, oh my God, yeah, I mean, maybe I could do that at some point if I really wanted to have a kid, because I think the whole time for me I'm just like if I can't be in a healthy, stable relationship, I like I will never have a child, you know. So it's just like it's insane to watch society shift and change so rapidly right now, and I feel so blessed to be a part of this bubble that is the podcast community, because it truly is a bunch of women giving, taking the shame out of like new ways to live and just being like we don't have to settle, we don't have to like, yeah, relationships are hard and yeah, you have to put in the work, but it's like, at the end of the day in in my experience and I know that like we can definitely put different types of women into different types of categories and for a man, being like you know, I'm just going to take care of you, and then literally feeling like he might murder you Like that has always been my experience with a man is like they get super possessive and then they get weirdly angry or violent and because now, listening to women that I feel that I identify with, that have the same like history as me, they have the same experience, yep, so it's like I'm it.

Speaker 2: 7:05

You know, most like male comedians will be like, really ladies, because if you're still single at a certain age, you got to look in the mirror and it's like, yeah, I mean, we do, we're all in therapy, we're all working on ourselves and we all deal with a lot when we step into a relationship and it does feel like babysitting a man child every single fucking time. And so I feel like, yeah, I will always continue to work on myself. But to all the male comics that love to make that joke like I can't wait to date a man that has his shit together. I can't wait to date a man that has his shit together. I can't wait to date a man that's in therapy and working on himself.

Speaker 2: 7:50

And when I bring up the word empathy, he's not getting angry or upset or confused oh, confused, it's a good one and not to mention, like I would just like to say, you know, because I've shared with you kind of what's been going on the past week. It's not just who I'm dating, it's my experience in the music industry as a solo female pop recording artist. I was in therapy in 2014 because of a situation that I am currently dealing with right now, because the same male producer who has told me how much he loves me and how talented I am and how I'm one of the most talented people he's ever worked with in his life, went ahead and gave all of my songs to another artist and has been rerecording my songs with her for the past three years. And here I am emailing one of the biggest management companies on the planet to send me my original contract. And here I am CCing my female attorney so that I can then show this man facts and receipts and show him why.

Speaker 2: 9:14

Why would I be in tears? Why would I be on the floor crying hysterically? Because a man's like perspective and view on on business is like well, instead of just letting the songs die and collect dust, let's make money. And I'm like, oh, wouldn't it be cool if you put the songs on me and got me a record deal and then make money Cause, like I thought that's what we were doing. I thought that's what we were trying to do the whole time, cause I was signed and I was on the radio with those songs, you know, and I just I feel like in business, men tend to have such a linear view on things, with no emotion, and it's such a mystery to them why female singers are like crying and hysterical or they quit music because of situations like this. And it's just like how do you not take into consideration our feelings? Like how is this a fun celebration for you right now? So it's not just with sex and love and romance and relationships. It's also in business how men view females and women and like how we are literally thrown in the trash.

Speaker 2: 10:38

The gaslighting is on real, and I was listening to another podcast about betrayal and the ladies were talking about how we don't want to say anything because the the person who has betrayed, feels guilty for even talking about what has happened to them, because we feel so stupid for letting it happen. And I'm sorry to go on a rant like immediately, but this is why I've been in bed crying and unable to get out of bed, because I'm devastated. I'm just like I need and I told you and Ricky, I need someone to act like a human, to show me that there is humanity on planet earth. Like I just need somebody to show me some that they care. You know, and that being said, you know I did get a phone call.

Speaker 2: 11:38

I've I've been through two phone calls now with this manager that was a part of this deal and he's like we, we need to literally talk about all of this and I feel awful and the artist feels awful and we need to like go over the facts and we need to talk about this, because he's like I can't move forward unless this is like clean, because right now it doesn't feel clean to me, and he's like this isn't fair to you and he's like I'm just my mind is blown so then, when is the talk?

Speaker 1: 12:13

what's the next step?

Speaker 2: 12:15

well, I said to him that I want to email my questions. Yeah, and instead of the response being you're a superstar, we love you. No, I want actual, adult, concrete answers to my business questions. Yep, who owns the masters? How did you purchase the masters? Why was I told since 2013 that I wasn't allowed to have the masters unless I paid X amount of dollars to this mixer? I need solid once and for all so that I can move on and let this die. I just need to know the truth.

Speaker 1: 13:02

So then, what's? What's this next? I love that you're doing that through email, so everything is documented it's up to me.

Speaker 2: 13:08

I have to send that email, and last night I could have done it, but I instead I chose to stay in bed and cry and just like I don't know what else to do right now, because my body is so, I'm so tired and I'm just know what. Rochelle, if you need to be in bed, then just fucking be in bed, because it's just too much. You'll send the email. Yeah. Yeah sure, definitely.

Speaker 1: 13:42

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:45

Yeah, definitely yeah, and like also, of course, I think business is hard for artists, and this is really. I mean I'm looking at my emails to the head honcho over at this big management company and I'm like good job, rochelle. Like you're not using any exclamation points anymore. It's very monotone, it's straight to the fucking point. You sound like a business person. Good job. Like I do see myself improving as a business person, so at least there's that Yep, and it's like I'm not excited about anything anymore. I'm just kind of like let's stop with the fuckery. And like who's getting paid? Like and how and like, but like for this scenario. I'm like can we talk about the betrayal? And like why was I lied to for so long? I think that part is like very not business, but I just need that for me.

Speaker 1: 14:54

Which which you might not get?

Speaker 2: 14:57

Which I love that you were talking about this earlier and I won't reveal any like like specifics of what you were talking about, but I did think about this last night, how you were like I truly wanted an apology and to know that you're never gonna get one whoo or even if you do it's like it's or it's already do it's like it's it's already done, like it's already been taken from me, yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:31

So now it's just kind of like what are they really going to do? They're going to answer my questions and then be like all right, moving on.

Speaker 1: 15:43

You know, I think that's like this lesson in all the different iterations I just keep learning, and it's just so painful when you have such an extensive history of grief. But this idea that there's like two parts, you know it's not about the rupture, it's about the repair, which is awesome when you can repair. But that which cannot be repaired must be mourned, because if you don't grieve it completely, you'll never, you'll keep trying to, you'll obsessively wonder and wait and hope for that sort of vindication and it will just suck the life and the power out of you moving forward. And it's just no way to like you can't survive that. It's literally, spiritually speaking and emotionally like impossible. And so some of the grossest but most important work is in grieving like what should be ours and all I'm talking about fucking human beings that have left us behind. Like all of it, like and that will never be, like that is where it all is, and like who wants to go there again? Right, who wants to go to that place and tap into that place again? It's just excruciating.

Speaker 2: 17:09

Yeah, I mean, it's to the point where you and Ricky know, like I can't get on the piano, I can't do anything by myself. I was even going to do a mini podcast episode yesterday by myself and I can't do anything by myself because I am so sad and I can't sing. I don't want to record music. Like I can't even do anything. Like the only reason why I'm doing these next two shows is because you guys or Ricky asked me to, and then, like Barson asked me to, and I'm like I'm going to force myself to do it, otherwise I'm literally going to throw this talent away and I'm like desperately trying to find a way through to the other side where I can just sing.

Speaker 2: 18:01

When is that going to happen? When is that going to happen? Because I, of course, relate singing and being in the studio to a bunch of villains that have destroyed my fucking life. So like, why would I want to do that ever again? And it's like, well, that is when therapy comes in. And like I, I, I definitely want to jump into actual exercises. Like I forget what it's called edrm or whatever, emdr, yeah, mdr, abcd, we are five, six, seven, eight, right, like I need an actual psychiatrist to give me exercises to erase those memories and use tools and tactics. Yep, it's literally like a soldier coming back from war and like you can't even go to the grocery store.

Speaker 1: 19:00

Yep, that's exactly what it is. Yeah, I was talking to a girlfriend last night and she, yesterday was my mom's birthday. We didn't say a word to each other. I just had such a brutal day emotionally and and I so I spoke to my friend at the end of the day and she said you know, if you're ready to hear this, I just want to point something out to you.

Speaker 1: 19:23

You've said this more than once. You've said if my mom died today and things were like this, would I be able to live with myself, would I be okay? And you keep gauging how you're showing up based on this thing, which makes complete sense, based on your history, but she's alive. So so if I wonder if, instead, if you could arrest that thought and just say today, just for today, while she is alive and ill, am I comfortable with what I've done? And and instead of catastrophe going, going, and I think like and it's so helpful, even though, because it just gives me some consciousness around the trauma response that is, my immediate trauma response is if she dies, if she dies when I'm, when I'm, when I get that call, what's going to happen to me? Am I going to be like, want to kill myself, like I did with my father because I had so much regret about the way I showed up. Am I going to wonder if want to kill myself, like I did with my father because I had so much regret about the way I showed up? Am I going to wonder if I should have said or done something? But I'm just preparing, preparing, preparing for this horrific phone call, because it's happened twice now.

Speaker 1: 20:33

And so when you say, when will I ever be able to sing again? When, when, when. Because it's like it's actually not even that, it's like just for today, I'm going to lean into the healing process. That's it, because that's the way to get back to singing. It's not like because going to this me, going to the death place, you going to the singing place, brings up all the trauma. It's just, it's like you, you go, you jump over the healing part, you go there and you're like, well, this is fucking horrible. So I guess I'm going to stay in bed, like it kind of like feeds itself in this gross trauma loop. Instead of just for today. It's not about singing, it's about healing.

Speaker 2: 21:21

It's about healing Well, but the problem is is it's been lots of days, it's been indefinite?

Speaker 2: 21:26

you know, it's like I'll sing three or four songs for a show and then we're done with music, and I just don't. I know that it will end, because I've been preparing myself so long to step back into it, and I know that, like the universe is going to bring me female engineers and producers because I've asked for it for so long, so I know I'll receive it. But and I know, the reason why it's not happening is because I have such a block with it, and so it's like simultaneously asking for it and then pushing it away. The universe is such a dick for that, like that's. So I don't agree with how the universe works.

Speaker 2: 22:14

I hate it that is inherently its own block, which we need to work through, because I would like to be on a world tour before I look, you know, saggy and old, you know, like, if it's gonna happen, can we, like I'm white, like my skin isn't gonna last for that much longer so you know what I mean like and I know that that's a whole nother conversation that women need to get over, but honestly, we're tired.

Speaker 2: 22:45

Tour is not for the weak. Yeah, like to be able to get through something like that physically, and I mean, not to mention mentally, yeah, but like to be on a stage where everyone knows the lyrics. Um, yes, please sign me the fuck up, like I've always wanted that. Yeah, which brings me back to why are we putting my album on another singer? But I digress. I'm sorry I digress.

Speaker 2: 23:18

I wanted to ask you something else, because the other night at work, yes, this girl who has voted me the meanest, um, even though, like I know that she, we adore each other, but there is some weird underlying weirdness and she, she tells me that she is the only person in my life that calls me out on my bullshit. And she says that being a friend does not include trauma dumping. And I'm just like, okay. So, as a host of a mental health podcast where I'm creating a safe space for women to trauma dump, I would just like you to know that if you haven't had a friendship in your life where you are allowed to talk about what's going on in your life, then I would highly encourage you to think about having friendships where you are allowed to do that.

Speaker 2: 24:31

I have been walking around with so much shame after this girl said that to me, like I have been carrying it like a million pound weight on my chest. Like how dare she make me feel guilty for having a real conversation with one of my girlfriends that she overheard, or she just feels like the anxiety when I've heard plenty of stories from this person as well. It's just incredible to me how women will find ways to jab at each other. And so I just want to say to all of the women out there like yes, we need to be in therapy, because you can't always tell your friends everything and expect your friends to be there for you. And like all of our friends are going through their own shit. But like I would never like the reason why I'm so close with you is because you and I have such spectacular, beautiful, in-depth, trauma dumping conversations that have allowed us to connect as human beings, as friends. So like, what is a friendship if you're not able to talk about what's going on?

Speaker 1: 25:52

Why do you think it bothered you the way that it did? Like, what's the part of what it triggered? Cause, if it brought shame up in you, it triggered something in you which you just mentioned, a bunch of things. But like, if you boiled it down, what did that?

Speaker 2: 26:09

activate. I think that most women are afraid of oversharing. Most women are afraid of being too talkative or chatty, cathy, or whereas, like during the pandemic, when I started watching podcasts, I was like, oh, like, here's 20 of, like the most powerful women sitting down in their living room on a microphone oversharing. Finally, and we finally don't have to feel bad for it, because the reason why it hit me so hard is because that's such a masculine, male thing to say to a woman is like, oh, she's talking too much, oh, oh, she's too loud, men don't want to hear it, men don't want to sit there. But I mean some guys these days it is changing. We're actually men love the tea. Honestly, men love to hear the tea and the drum and like, like.

Speaker 1: 27:20

Like so she? She was a representation of everything you're trying to overcome by doing the podcast, the way that you're doing it.

Speaker 2: 27:29

Well, I mean, I think it's everything women are trying to overcome in general. Yeah, women are always shamed for like being such magical healing unicorns, like we are witches. We are oversharing because we have to. This is survival. We're like changing the fabric of the narrative for women right now, in real time, and I think, because she's so shy and uncomfortable and doesn't want to do that herself, it makes her feel like out of control to hear someone else's stuff or whatever.

Speaker 3: 28:08

So how do?

Speaker 1: 28:08

you safeguard yourself from taking on shame that isn't yours to carry.

Speaker 2: 28:15

Talking about it like what I'm doing right now with you is definitely the most cathartic thing that we can do. Which is another wild thing to me is, like you know, I lost my own mother to suicide because she didn't have anyone to talk to. She didn't have anyone to trauma dump on and held it all inside and then therefore needed to end her life because the pain was too much. And so it begs the question why are we shaming women for trauma dumping? We need to. It's a lot of trauma. It's a lot of crazy, weird shit that we've all dealt with lot of trauma. It's a lot of crazy, weird shit that we've all dealt with silently because we feel so judged for being a woman.

Speaker 1: 29:10

It's interesting because when I think about you know my ability to hold space for people who were hurting. Right, it's two things. One is that I have so much personal experience with trauma that I can deeply empathize and find compassion for the person on the other end of it, and it takes an exquisite amount of vulnerability vulnerability to not turn away from somebody's pain, and we are all so fucking numb and guarded I mean God in every loss I've faced. Just the cultural inadequacy to hold space for my grief is just astounding to me. So not that it lends, you know, an excuse for that girl. It's so rare to find those people who have both the personal experience and the emotional bandwidth to be.

Speaker 2: 30:26

And to find people that won't hold it against you later on. Like that's a whole other thing. Yes, it is. And and now that I'm working with so many women, it's like building long, lasting friendships. You know, and I'll always make little statements to the women, like to the camera, like, hey, girls, remember just, every single woman is different. Everyone has a different personality, different perspective, and if we're going to keep these women around, keep them in our lives. It's like ending that toxic behavior. You know, especially amongst us single women, it's the, the underlying competitiveness, with men too, like that is that keeps people from being true friends. Like it's, you know. So it's like, yeah, for those of us who are like we don't even have a choice, like we just are vulnerable and we just are transparent and wear our heart on our sleeves, which is why we're hosting podcasts in the first place, because you do have to be a certain type of person to do this, but, god forbid, we keep walking through life with fake friendships.

Speaker 2: 31:47

What are we doing? Like, where is the yaya sisterhood? Where we're all sitting in a circle crying together, like that's what needs to be happening, because that's how powerful women are and that's why women are, that's why we need girl time, absolutely yeah, so yeah, it's just it. It is a lot of fear, like fear, mentality, scarcity, mindset, scarcity mindset. There can only be one of me. You know, he only like he can only be with me. I mean, I just I just witnessed myself and how I reacted. I thought I was going to date a full month, courting another girl at my work and in singleville. You're not supposed to hold that against people, because everyone's allowed to talk to whoever they want. They can date whoever they want.

Speaker 2: 32:56

The reason why I was upset is because this man told me that he had never been there, didn't know anything about it, you know, played that role with me and that.

Speaker 2: 33:10

And then and here I am like dealing with like the most extreme type of betrayal ever in music in my career. And then here's this new person and getting out of like a weird toxic relationship December, january and me like trying to like date again and having this guy who, literally, is just like in the Pete Davidson category. So I should have known better, but but as a woman, I didn't blame her. You know what I mean. Like I'm, I'm he's the one you know. And so, because I'm like doing all of this work with women, I'm like immediately stopped myself from feeling that angst towards her, which, of course, it still stings, and of course I still like you know she's so much younger than me and like the way that she's like staring at me and like she's hurt. She's hurt Cause I was the other woman and I didn't even know it's so painful. There's just so much pain with women, you know Cause I think we just truly want to be loved and we're like up against all this weird shit.

Speaker 1: 34:44

It's funny, I mean, yes, exactly as you're saying all that. I was thinking just how many times we've heard this but that it continues to ring true that everything about, in this case, women sort of pitting themselves against one another, boils down to a lack of worthiness somewhere. And there's a thousand reasons why that happens, unique to each person. However, from the cultural lens, the ways in which women are gaslit from the gate, not trust themselves, which inherently will deplete a sense of worthiness. If your insides are screaming something and you were taught to shut up and look pretty and stay quiet, you are not going to believe your ideas and your intuition have any value and any merit.

Speaker 1: 35:47

So you know, and I, I again, it's just like to, to, to drive it all the way back to the very second we fucking come out into this world how much is against us that, by the time we're women in adulthood, it's no wonder we have no idea how to hold space for each other. Yeah, it's no fucking wonder. And then you add on top of it the patriarchy, yeah, and the layers, and I mean it's absolutely a miracle when two women can be their true selves with one another, with no jealousy. Yeah, it's, it's. And it's so sad that that is the exception and not the rule, but at least for now it is. And you know, the only thing we can do is be really discerning about who we exchange our energy with and cultivate sort of a tribe, and okay, you were frozen.

Speaker 1: 36:58

You know, all we, all we can do is cultivate a tribe of women who are trying to navigate life with this type of awareness and create sort of a community of of warriors. I mean, that's all. That's all that we can do and push the narrative forward by speaking out about all of these things. And I mean as a mother, I, I know there's this idea of like, I just want my kids to be happy and I, I want my kids to be resilient. I wasn't taught that. I was not, I was. I was only taught that I'm okay if everything outside of me is okay. So if I have the straight A's and the skinny body and the pretty face and the good job, then I am okay and I am safe in the world. And I am okay and I am safe in the world and I am worthy, which prepared me not at all for all matters of the heart. However, even beyond that, what would it take to raise a resilient child? And for me, if I think back to my, I used to say all the time, like my, my actual addiction is to control. And now that I've continued to peel back, spiritually speaking, all these layers of sort of how I have operated in the world. I actually think my original and most deeply cemented addiction was self-abandonment. If that is true, then I learned right away, because literally one of my earliest core memories is confronting my mother and saying why do you take those pills at night? Because I was scared with who she became. And she shut that shit down. Not only did she shut it down, she turned it, which of course you know again very subconsciously for her. You know she loves me even in her fucking mental illness right now and how abusive she is, but this was the best she could do at the time. Sam, do you like the things that you have? Yeah, yes, yeah, okay. In order for me to give you the things that you have, mommy needs to work, and in order for me to work, I need to sleep. These pills help me sleep. Conversation over now.

Speaker 1: 39:49

The core of my fucking heartbreak and poor decision-making and self-sabotaging of my whole life was that I had no connection to my internal knowing. My intuition was shut down completely, and then I doused drugs and alcohol on top of it and I did not hear the whisper of her voice until I was 30 years old, separated from my husband, in complete emotional despair. So what I want to do is not just have a platform and shout from the rooftops that we need to get back in touch with our intuition and all the ways in which I've learned how to do that as an adult, but I also need my children to fucking trust themselves above everything else, and in the smallest ways I can do that with my young kids when they're, when they're asking me what do I think, what do I feel? Which one do I like better? I'll share my opinion, but I'll go.

Speaker 1: 40:59

What do you think? How does that feel in your body? How did it feel when your friend said that to you? As often as I humanly can, I am going to turn my children towards themselves. Yep, because if they've got a connection there, that is a great fucking start, because the entire world is going to pull them away from themselves. So if, at the very epicenter of their lives, they had parents who taught them how to turn inward before the world asked everything of them and wanted to take it all away, then I've done my fucking job as a parent and that's the other thing that's so hard, especially in business, and I guess for women it's more common.

Speaker 2: 41:53

But intuition, it can physically hurt, like your body, can literally physically hurt. I went through that with the relationship in December, january where, like I, I constantly was envisioning myself like violently vomiting and it was like hello, get out. This is, this is like putting you in fight or flight mode and your body is like screaming bloody murder. And you're still in this why? And then, with these emails and with this music situation, I keep thinking, rochelle, if we took this to court, would they make you look like an idiot, like, are you wrong? Are you crazy? And then I'm just like the reason why you feel this way is because what was done to you is so wrong. But I'm still thinking to myself maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong Because that's how we're made to feel, like you're just an over-emotional woman making something out of nothing. And so I'm so grateful that you're teaching your kids that Because, yeah, if you feel that way more often than not, you're probably right. Which sucks because our intuition is screaming at us about everything all the time and it's like again.

Speaker 2: 43:27

And cleaning house is like so hard to do because you know you kind of just want to like keep everyone around and you don't want to have to like cut people off or like walk away. Because then you're like if I keep doing that, am I the problem? There's a spiritual teacher on Instagram that I follow, phil good life. And he's like but no, everyone's gotta go. And then you keep going because you're never going to get here unless you keep cleaning it out. And he's like it's not about you being crazy or wrong or whatever you think you're doing wrong or this is a you problem or you've lost your mind. It's like no, if you're going to ascend spiritually, everything has to be at peace and feel calm and right. And if that means you have to keep leaving people and kicking people out and cutting people off, and he's like even your parents like he always brings up the parents because he has so many clients that are like but my parents want me to do this, and it's like no.

Speaker 1: 44:36

Okay. So this is like I'm so excited about just the natural evolution of this conversation, because if we, if we talk about the word addiction and we just put any type of substance on a shelf because one thing that I'm deeply passionate about, and what my book is so much about, is the idea of, of emotional addiction that is seeping through our culture like a fucking parasite at rapid speed. So fuck the idea of being like a fall down drunk and a cocaine addict for a second, like a fall down drunk and a cocaine addict for a second. Let's talk about what we're really saying. If, if my first learned behavior emotionally was to turn away from my intuition and, as you said, my intuition and yours and every person on the planet is often telling us something that hurts like hell, okay, if I learned that to be safe and loved in the world was to shut it the fuck up Soon, as my mom said that to me, better not ever say that again. I don't want to lose my mom's love. I don't want to lose my proximity to her. She's who keeps me safe in the world. She's who feeds me, who gives me shelter.

Speaker 1: 46:10

Now, slowly, I am emotionally becoming conditioned that the way forward is not at all to listen to my intuition, because that can create disconnect from my closest people, rupture, pain, emotional, physical pain. So what I'm going to chase is abandoning my intuition. I'm going to chase a dopamine hit, even if it's actually not good for me, because initially it was. It is what kept me alive as a child for years and years and years. So now we're adults who have these addictive patterns going to these gross places for comfort that are actually very harmful, but they're so familiar in our nervous system it feels like fucking home. And going into the knowing is sometimes way more terrifying because it's new and it shouldn't be, but it is. And until that becomes a practice of oh my God when I think about this relationship, a practice of oh my God when I think about this relationship, the vision I'm getting is violently puking. And if I can stay there and go, what is my body telling me? It's telling me get out, and that's going to be so scary to do at first and my nervous system is going to feel turned upside down because this gross dysfunction is actually kind of comforting. But then eventually, if I actually listen to it and forge ahead, the other side of that is like a reset button for my nervous system. The other side of that is relief, relief, relief and an actual rewiring. And now you have a template.

Speaker 1: 48:29

Oh my God, that time that I knew this thing was bad for me, even though it was kind of comfortable. At the same time, I knew I had to leave and it was so scary and so painful physically and emotionally, but I did and I survived and I'm better off for it. It's like having what I call a sober reference point, an emotionally grounded reference point, a parasympathetic nervous system reference point. Oh, oh my god. And so how, the fuck, like a muscle at the gym, how do I strengthen that circuitry which should have been so strong, because I should have been taught how to do this from the gate, but I wasn't.

Speaker 1: 49:14

How do I now, as an adult who sees what's happening from my highest level of consciousness, try to gain agency over being in the cycle of dysfunction and honoring that intuitive voice again and again, because I can trust that if I get to the other, I told my friends the more it made me realize I had to get out if I had stayed silent and lied to everybody and that brings me back to my point is like why are we telling women don't trauma dump, don't be doing that to your friends?

Speaker 2: 49:59

It's like what? Like my friends are supposed to be protecting me If I'm in a dangerous situation? My girlfriends should be on high alert and be like honey. This is not good, and if and when you decide that you're going to wake up from the sleep that you're in, we're here for you.

Speaker 1: 50:23

Actually, you know what's fascinating about this point? I want to bring this up and see how you feel about it because since my earliest role was self-abandonment and basically morphing myself into whatever the person across from me needed, I gained a lot of worthiness out of being the fixer, the saver, the mediator. So in my sobriety, in my therapy something I've had to learn and in my marriage, because most of the time, even though I have really good advice, in my opinion my husband doesn't give a flying fuck. He's like, actually, I just really wanted you to listen, I don't need your. Thank you, I know you're trying to help. I have had to learn that my worthiness is not that. It's a wonderful part of who I am. I have to ask my friends as a practice for my own healing, but you've done with me.

Speaker 1: 51:30

Do you want me to listen? Yeah, you want my advice, right? And so on the side of like, the flip side of like, you know, are you a friend if you're not actually kind of stepping in and going like I don't know about this, I don't know? Like, even with you, you know, I'm like I'm not sure she wants to hear it, I'm not sure she's ready to hear it, I'm not sure that's my role. I'm not sure.

Speaker 2: 51:55

So it's like very interesting because sure that's my role, I'm not sure. So it's like very interesting, because my I get sad if my girlfriends are not like oh my God, isn't that fascinating.

Speaker 1: 52:07

So with you with you, you want me to be that person, but with my husband he absolutely does not want me to be that person. I mean it depends.

Speaker 2: 52:16

It depends, know, it's like that. One time you were like you should totally do OnlyFans and I was like it definitely depends. Most of the time I'm like if you're not crying with me, we're not friends. Like you know what I'm saying and I would also like to end on this note because I do have to leave at one because I have an only coming to talk about only fans.

Speaker 2: 52:44

Um, a woman on tiktok posted about the four agreements and how it's so much better to not react. Like you're such a wise old soul if you're just like I am unbothered and I'm just like, can you say that to Gloria Allred? Or like Ruth Bader Ginsburg? Can you tell that to them? Because if they hadn't fought for our rights and Gloria's still doing it, she's still alive and a female attorney representing every woman that has ever been sexually assaulted by a powerful, rich, famous man. I mean, she has gone to war for us. If she was following the four agreements, she would be in a corner meditating, being like I am non-reactive, this does not bother me.

Speaker 2: 53:41

I don't agree with that at all. I think it's super fucked up to tell people to just not react and I feel like, yeah, in certain situations it's probably best to take. Well, it is best to take 48 hours and then respond in a fight or an argument or a debacle, you know. But like here I am. Do you know how many musicians have messaged me telling me that I should come out with the real story? And I'm going. I don't want to be that girl, I don't want to say it because it's going to make me look stupid and like I'm whining because I don't have a career and it's like. And then a part of me is like but didn't you create a podcast to speak the truth about what really goes on? So that is like where I'm at right now. In this shit storm. I'm just like I wonder how it's going to progress and, no matter what, I'm gonna keep it classy, yep.

Speaker 2: 54:56

But I will find a way, in my own way, to speak on what happened to me without throwing anyone under the bus, because I do think it's super important to make show business better for everybody. It's not just the music industry. It's contracts are evil and people are evil and people just want to make money and they will use artists I mean, look at all the strikes, right, it's like and all of these people that tell us how talented we are and how amazing we are. You're a superstar. You're such a star Like, why aren't you in movies, why aren't you on a world tour?

Speaker 2: 55:38

Well, because I've gotten fucked by like 25 men who all said the same oh it just makes me want to cry who have all said the same thing to me and I'm stripping to pay rent, like which isn't anyone's fault and I take full responsibility. But really, like I could have been on a world tour if someone had like just been mature and been like no, we're gonna protect Rochelle and we're just gonna focus on making money and ticket sales and like we're gonna make this function and we're gonna make it work. It could have happened. I know, in my soul it could have happened like four different times. It could have happened and I and like every single story. It is just mind-blowing to me. So, that being said, I am so grateful for the whistleblowers and I'm so grateful for the documentaries that we do have and the female attorneys that we do have that are like walking the hardest road to make change.

Speaker 1: 56:50

Yeah, yeah, and it's not enough. You know, I think no. When we're talking about the physiologic response of an emotional reaction, when we're super activated, no real change can come from that place. It's not productive. And we know how that goes when we have a fight and we're all flared up right Like just take that example with any person you ever dated, any friendship that said, if you want to go live a fucking Buddhist life and just be completely non-reactive and shut down like part of your humanity, you can do that. You can do that.

Speaker 2: 57:30

You were frozen. Yes, you can do this life and non-reactive.

Speaker 1: 57:35

You can do that, yeah, but if you're trying to be a change maker and a thought leader, yeah, then you must diffuse from the reactive state, gather every ounce of emotional and intellectual ammunition that you have and go. How the fuck do I use this to push the needle forward on this issue, because I'm not going to sit around and let it look like this, and that's that's really. You know where you're sort of straying from the four agreement part, and that's what you and I are trying to do. Yeah, thousand different levels, and and it's one of the bravest most beautiful things, and it's one of the bravest most beautiful- things.

Speaker 2: 58:24

I'm so grateful for you, samantha, and I just am so blessed to have you in my life, and I just, I truly want to continue to have friendships like this with women, so that other women can see this and be like, oh, that's what it's supposed to look like and feel like and sound like between two women that support each other, that are just helping each other grow, but also two women that are actively doing the work and like we're not in denial, we are looking in the mirror, we are constantly ready to make changes. It's like we are open to shifting and evolving and growing, and it's like to all the women out there that are in a space similar to ours find other women that are actively working on themselves too, because if people are not doing that, they are going to make you feel like your transparency and vulnerability is a crime, and we don't want that. Amen, babe, I love you. I love you too. Thank you so much for having me on. I have chills.

Speaker 1: 59:39

Thanks for coming. I'll speak to you in like five minutes, okay.

Speaker 3: 1:00:02

I wanna help you, but I don't know how. I wanna guide you, but I can't figure it out. So tell me what you need and tell me where you bleed, and I will listen. I can listen. Oh, I will listen to you. You seem so stuck there Holding on To some old story, Still going strong. So tell me what you did and tell me how you lived, and I will listen. I can listen. Oh, I will listen to you.

Speaker 3: 1:01:06

Where can you go now? Can I keep you from falling down? If you just keep floating, you won't drown. There's a knowing that can be found If you listen. Can you listen? Oh, I will listen to you. There's a voice deep inside you that will be there to guide you. So tell me what do you hear? Can you quiet your worst fear If you listen? Can you listen? Oh, I will listen to you. Where can you go now? Can I keep you from falling down? If you just keep floating, you won't drown. There's an owing that can be found If you listen. I can listen, oh, I will listen to you. You.