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The Truth About Addiction
Dr. Samantha Harte is a physical therapist, best selling author, performing artist and sober mom of two. She is here to tell the truth about her life, which requires telling the truth about her addiction: how it presents, how it manifests, and how it shows up again and again in her recovery. This podcast is one giant deep dive into the truth about ALL TYPES OF addiction (and living sober) to dispel the myths, expose the truths, and create a community experience of worthiness, understanding and compassion.
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The Truth About Addiction
Healing and Transformation Through Meditation and Manifestation with Niko Arapkiles
After years of living with subconscious addictive behaviors, Niko Arapkulis, our guest and the host of the Just Grow podcast, transformed his life to one of intentionality and purpose. On this episode of "The Truth About Addiction," Niko recounts his journey from a heavy partying lifestyle post-breakup to achieving four years of sobriety during the COVID pandemic. We explore how addiction manifests in various forms, including social media overuse, and how seeking fulfillment from within rather than external sources can lead to a more purposeful life.
Niko and I also share our experiences of overcoming addiction and emotional crises without relying on a higher power. I dive into my own path to sobriety, initially rooted in perfectionism, and how a marital crisis led me to profound self-discovery through a 12-step program. We discuss reprogramming the subconscious, the transformative power of meditation inspired by Dr. Joe Dispenza, and the journey towards mental and physical coherence that led to emotional freedom.
In our conversation, we address the importance of healing rejection wounds through self-discovery and self-love. By reflecting on social interactions, aligning with individuals who resonate on a similar frequency, and cultivating self-worth through small wins, we can shift to a higher vibrational state. Niko and I emphasize the pursuit of meaningful impact over traditional business success, sharing practical steps to achieve inner alignment and personal growth. Join us for this enlightening episode and learn how to navigate the transformative power of self-awareness and spiritual practice.
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Welcome back everybody to the truth about addiction. I am so excited for today's guest. We had such an existential conversation, but also made it really practical for you, the listener, to apply some of the principles we share into your daily lives so you can access more peace, more resilience, more hope and more joy. Nico Arapkulis is the host of the Just Grow podcast and CEO of Just Grow Visions. Through his communities and live events, he helps entrepreneurs remove subconscious blocks and raise their frequency for good, using the woo plus do framework so they can elevate their revenue and impact.
Speaker 2:We're going to dive right in.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited. Welcome back everybody to the Truth About Addiction. So I feel like every guest I bring on is more interesting than the one before. No offense to my previous guests. I say that because I am on a mission to really challenge culturally how we think about the word addiction, outside of the lens of substance abuse and into the realm of addictive patterns of behavior that are often subconscious.
Speaker 1:So the gentleman that is about to share his story is somebody I've never met in person, which makes this even more fun because it's experimental for everybody, including you, the listener. But I saw his Instagram feed because the algorithms are very smart and they are learning what I am interested in, and he has turned his life from a series of subconscious patterns and behaviors into a very high level of consciousness, where he is intentionally living a life filled with purpose and passion that I was immediately attracted to when I was reading about him and that has inspired his own community to want to do the same. So I cannot wait for this conversation, and we promised each other we were going to have fun while we were talking too. So, nico Arapkulis hey, yeah, I got it right. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:That was quite an intro. I got a lot to live up to. Yeah, no pressure, it's cool too, cause, like I have, you know, about 40 minutes to be the top dog and then after that I'm, I'm knocked off.
Speaker 1:Right then, after that I'm knocked off right. I think the real flex is when you're top dogging and there's no camera and there's no microphone, and I know, you know that.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:So, in the spirit of breaking down this concept of addiction because you know I'm 15 years sober and for the listeners who have come back again and again, they know I have a pretty harrowing tale, not just from substance abuse and addiction into recovery and physical sobriety, but emotional cycles of being addicted to perfectionism, pleasing, performing at all costs and recovering into a place where I can take the action and let go of the result, a place where I can surrender, or else I will be dragged a place where I can actually not just survive in uncertainty but really love myself through it and feel all the gross feelings that are associated with feeling out of control and get to the other side of it and really birth something new and beautiful Right. So so for you, I don't think there's any traditional substance abuse in your story. But, my gosh, if there is and you want to talk about it, let's just go right there. And if not, that just take me back to little Nico.
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure. First of all, thanks again for having me here. This is my jam to sit down and have great conversations with great people. So I appreciate you having me and honored to be here. It's interesting because I feel like I have an interesting lens with addiction and substances. I wouldn't say that I've ever had much of an issue with any substances.
Speaker 3:There was a period of time when I had some fun partying for a while. Especially when you live right down the street from old town Scottsdale, that makes it very convenient. But I am like technically like four years sober it. Just I realized after a certain point like I did go through a. I wouldn't say I was addicted, but I I went through like a heavy phase when I. It was after a breakup and just a lot of heavy emotions and I didn't really know how to deal with them. So partying in old town scottsdale seemed to be the move. Partying in the old town Scottsdale seemed to be the move.
Speaker 3:And, uh, then COVID hit and something shifted. Well, actually a lot shifted. There's a whole story to this and I can go as deep as you want me to. Um, but I just like when COVID hits I something shifted in me where I not what's wrong with this, what's right with this? And so I stopped seeing the benefit in alcohol and I just decided that I don't really want to do it anymore. It's like not adding value to my life. It's I'm waking up with hangovers, it doesn't feel good, it takes longer and longer to bounce back from it, and I'd say the other thing, too, is that I don't think it really even matters what the substance is, and it can be a variety of things. I would say that I potentially do have an addiction We'll get into that here in a second which I think a lot of people could relate to, but at the end of the day, I really think it has a lot to do with the, the neuroscience behind it, and it's really always to do with dopamine and the whole concept of more, more and then never being fulfilled by enough, like enough is never enough.
Speaker 3:That's a really dangerous game to play, no matter if it's alcohol or it's weed or it's drugs, whether it's social media, porn, sex, whatever it is. For me, I would say that the one that's most alive at this current stage is social media, and I've just had lots of conversations with people around this, and so I think it's just like the same concept, no matter what, no matter what kind of substance it is or whatever. It's just like the same concept, no matter what, no matter what kind of substance it is or whatever. It's something outside of you that you're looking to get something from that validates you in some capacity and you're always reaching for more. My family actually has had kind of a long standing. Interestingly enough, I'm going home on Thursday. My uncle just passed from alcoholism and so I've seen like a secondhand view of it.
Speaker 3:But I really think that in life, I mean, we talk a lot about our thing. We always help people with his manifestation and like intentionally creating your reality. And one thing I've noticed and what we teach in our coaching programs is a lot more about managing the downs than it is feeding the ups, because I always look at it like you know, life and building momentum and creating that life that you want. It's kind of like you're walking up a staircase and when you have addictions, whatever that is, they can knock you off that staircase and then you can't just jump back up on the staircase. You have to go back all the way down to the bottom of the staircase Very exhausting route if you're just going to keep on going that way. So addiction is a real thing and it stops so many people from really creating the life that they truly desire.
Speaker 1:Okay, there's so much. I am the kind of person that does want to spend time in that pit, in that pit. So Because In my own story, the kind of Desperation that it took To hit spiritual rock bottom Before I was Not just awake enough, awake and desperate enough and willing enough to try something different, to change the trajectory of my life was so excruciating. And it wasn't like anything you would expect, meaning I had overdosed on cocaine. That wasn't it. I had overdosed on cocaine, that wasn't it. I had lost my first sponsor, who was 22 years sober from heroin addiction, who saved my life and was a friend before a sponsor. He had relapsed and committed suicide. That wasn't it either.
Speaker 1:And I think the people who might listen to talks like this, if they're face down in a pit of despair, it's so important to just hear the gross, raw honesty of what that presents like. And then the switch happens where, as we said, right, you're in so much pain that there's a little window of willingness and then you may or may not know what your options are, but there are options on the table that are something other than the subconscious programming you've been stuck in. So for you, before you were able to switch out of the way you were living and shift and go wait a minute. You know, is this actually doing anything for me? What happened?
Speaker 3:Well, I'll share a couple of things that were like where the rock bottom points were. I think that might give some good context. I for the first time in my life really experienced like real heartbreak. Anybody can relate to that and it sucks.
Speaker 3:There's no way heartbreak sucks indeed at the moment right, I believe that it's actually one of the biggest gifts after the fact, but it can take a while to to get out of that. Um. So again like I, I turned to alcohol for sure. Um, I felt like it was more about just like going out there and getting out and having fun, and I'd been in a relationship for like two, almost three years and I was like all right time for freedom again. It's gonna be fun, go hit on chicks like it'll be a good time. And then it it was like I'd go out there and I'd I'd go have fun for a little bit and then it wasn't fun and then I drink a little bit and then it got a little bit more fun, and then it stopped being fun and then I would drink even more and then it would be a little bit more fun.
Speaker 3:But then it was just like again I was chasing that more and, uh, it just kind of continued on that path and after a while, like it, just nothing was sufficing and, ironically, what happened was like with the rock bottom moment was, um, or like nothing was going well in my life. My business was in shambles because I just couldn't think about anything else, um, and the only thing that was going well was the gym. I was putting on some size, I was getting strong and all of a sudden, finishing up my last rep, like my last set pushed a little bit harder on the bench press and, uh, I was racking. I was racking the the barbell and before I racked it it just something happened and just fell right back on top of me and I had no idea what's going on. There was no one spotting me and, um, some, some guy came by and like finally helped me get it up and he's like oh man shouldn't be lifting that much weight.
Speaker 3:I was like I think I I hurt myself and so what ended up happening is ripped right off the bone and uh, a couple of days later I I had surgery without any health insurance. So that was fun, paying all that out of pocket and just in complete shambles. I mean that was like the straw that broke the back, because, because that was the last thing, and I was actually visiting my parents at that time and we got in the car heading over to the ER and I just broke down crying. My mom's like like what's, what's going on? And I said, when it rains, it pours and uh, I know a lot of other people can experience that too where it's just like, feels like nothing's going right.
Speaker 3:And again, I I think honestly that's that was one of the biggest blessings of my life, because I think when you my perspective is, when you hit rock bottom, it like you're able to bounce off of rock bottom. If you're just kind of like gliding to rock bottom, that's when you can get stuck there, and so it just like really forced me to be like, okay, it's time to make some changes. And thankfully I have just the most amazing mom in the world and she always talks sense into me, even when I like just want to be mad for a while or just be upset, like I was still upset after that for a while and there's more deal with the ex-girlfriend and um, but after a while my mom just like shook me up and was like, is this how you want to continue living your life? And, uh, thankful for her because she helped me understand that this was my choice and at the end of the day, it's a choice, um, and it's really powerful. It's been really powerful for me to really understand the neuroscience and the brain science behind everything, because once you understand things more, you have a better decision-making framework. And what I was going to get to I think this is one of the more powerful things that's helped me a lot is, you know, whether it's addiction or just hitting rock bottom in in some other capacity.
Speaker 3:It's not about going from zero to a hundred, it's about going from zero to one. It's not about going from zero to a hundred. It's about going from zero to one. Then it's about one to two, two to three, three to four. You know five, and then you can make some jumps. You five, seven, seven, then 10, you know.
Speaker 3:And so that's why it's so big for me is like how can I build momentum? That's like one of my biggest goals at all time, because when you're, when you're down, down, bad, it feels like you'll never get back up. But once you get the momentum rolling, you get into a more of a flow state. That's when things just start attracting towards your way and you're like literally raising your frequency and then therefore you're actually attracting and things that are on that same frequency. But that's those have been some things that have been. Massively helpful for me is to build that momentum, but also take the perspective that if you do, metaphorically, hit that rock bottom, it doesn't feel good in the moment, but I would argue that some of the best success stories in the world ever have all come from from these type of rock bottom moments where you didn't think you could go on. But you look back and you're like, damn, I'm really grateful that all happened.
Speaker 1:When I was at my rock bottom, well, I was also in recovery. So I had this 12-step framework from AA. That never worked for me, because the God part of it scared me completely. And and when I say scared, the more correct explanation is that I grew up in a house where if you believed in God, you were a fool. You were an absolute fool because the only person you could count on is yourself. So to be such a high functioning addict who had all the things on the outside, just a little cocaine problem that almost killed me, and then you're telling me I'm going to need God to live for the rest of my life and to live well and to stay sober, I was like, get the fuck out of here. That's not true for me.
Speaker 1:So I ran five years sober, not ever forming a relationship with something bigger than my perfectionism, and so when I hit bottom I was still in the rooms of recovery, but sort of half-assing it. So I am now physically abstaining from substance because I am very convinced that it's going to kill me. But I am in no way convinced that I need a power greater than myself to live a joyful, meaningful life. So I ran on my ability to perfect and perform and please until the bitter end. In my case it was a marital crisis that, no matter what level of control and saying and doing just the right thing to make him love me again. Only when that failed was I at my actual bottom, at which point, in my case, you know, I definitely did not have a parental figure that could anchor me and say what are you doing with your one wild and precious life?
Speaker 1:I mean, that was not available to me.
Speaker 1:What was available at the time was a woman who was in multiple 12 set programs and she said what if we do the steps on your marriage?
Speaker 1:And I was like huh. And I was like huh, what do you mean? And all of a sudden I had this framework that I had run through several times, but only 50% of the way, everything minus the God thing, which is a big thing and now I have this new way of looking at my life and the situation that was causing me the most emotional pain, and it was a step-by-step process to give me the tools necessary to have a new experience and a new type of emotional freedom. So I know you said your mom was there and that sounds like it was a big deal at the time, and I think it's a really big deal when we're face down and every last cord that was keeping us in the sickness or the dysfunction is cut, that something or someone shows up, and so we have a sense of where to go next, even one next step to take. And for me, without that woman and that process, the most important part of which was the ninth step, where she said have you ever made an amends to yourself?
Speaker 1:And I was five years sober and 30 years old. Nobody had ever asked me that question in my life. It was absolutely revolutionary. Until I did that, I was being run by my inner critic. I had so much shame that I was carrying around that I couldn't hear a download from God. Even if I believed in it, I couldn't hear it. Now that I've had a process again and again and I have a way to clear any kind of shame that tries to come in and corrode my insides for a mistake I've made, I can always hear the whisper of my intuition. Now I don't need a person or a thing or an intervention per se. I have to do what I know to do to get still to hear the whisper of God. But I had no access and so you had your mom. But take me from her saying you know you have a choice and you starting to learn about the neuroscience and how you climbed out. What were some of the initial steps you took to changing your life and reprogramming your subconscious?
Speaker 3:Yeah, wow Felt the passion there.
Speaker 1:I have a lot of passion when I speak about this stuff. Yeah, preach, you know it's interesting when. I speak about this stuff, preach.
Speaker 3:You know it's interesting. I appreciate you asking those questions because it gets me to reflect on what was the next steps and I refer to this a lot in my content and specifically, I've been doing a lot of YouTube videos lately and it's been a really fun experience. That's helping me even reflect on my journey, but one of the biggest things with meditation, to be honest, because it's interesting In this world that we live in telling you a little bit more about where I face challenges.
Speaker 3:Still with social media. I really think that addictions they're they're distractions. They're distractions on what's really important and important. The important things are a relationship with yourself, relationship with God, and so social media and all these other distractions were pulling me away from that. But when I had my torn my shoulder, I tore my shoulder, I tore my tendon, and then I was just sleeping on a recliner for six weeks and had nothing to do. It gave me the opportunity to just sit down and be with myself, as opposed to like oh, I got to check this and I wasn't even in my cause.
Speaker 3:I live in Arizona, my parents are in Colorado, so I literally like just turned my phone off for like a strong, a long period of time and I was like it's time to zone in a little bit. And it was interesting because, like it was meditation. I really took that seriously and I started doing it like 20, 30 minutes, 40 minutes sometimes. And it's interesting because I you know, one of my bigger influences I don't grab the book here is Dr Joe Dispenza. He really talks about the science behind meditation and why it's so valuable and why it's so important, and I just it's for me, like when I understand things, that's when I can make better informed decisions and choices. So he helped me understand the science behind it all is so he. He helped me understand the science behind it all and I was like it's kind of hard to dispute when I understand, like, what it's actually doing to the brain when you meditate and what it's like doing with the mind, heart, coherence, and so it was just like, basically, you ever I used to DJ a little bit back in college and I don't know if you can relate to this, but there's times when, like, the tracks are off, the beats are off I think they call it like train wrecking or something like that, and you can just notice it where it's just like, and that's kind of what it's like when you're out of alignment, when you're not like present with yourself. And another metaphor I think is really cool I discovered this weekend we went camping and it was a men's retreat as well, and we're talking about how, when you get in alignment, when you're, you're aligned from the spiritual plane to the mental plane, to the physical plane.
Speaker 3:That's when, like it feels good and you're actually like moving quick, you're in flow, but you feel like you're, you're very Right. And we got a direct metaphor because my friends are crazy. Uh, we were driving on these dirt roads and there's two times we were driving on dirt roads and they're like pretty, like bumpy roads, but there was one time we were driving in about 20 miles an hour, being like, uh, being like normal people, if you will, but we were like bouncing all over the place on this bumpy road, going really slow, right. And then my friend that loves to go fast, he started going really fast and we were probably hitting about 60, 70 miles an hour on this dirt road. And it was interesting because I felt more safe and I felt like free and comfortable and relaxed when we were driving 70 miles an hour, because it felt like we were gliding.
Speaker 1:So I am. I am now physically abstaining from substance because I am very convinced that it's going to kill me, but I am in no way convinced that I need a power greater than myself to live a joyful, meaningful life. So I ran on my ability to perfect and perform, and please, until the bitter end. In my case, it was a marital crisis that, no matter what level of control and saying and doing just the right thing to make him love me again. Only when that failed was I at my actual bottom, at which point, in my case, I definitely did not have a parental figure that could anchor me and say what are you doing with your one wild and precious life? I mean, that was not available to me.
Speaker 1:What was available at the time was a woman who was in multiple 12-step programs and she said what if we do the steps on your marriage?
Speaker 1:And I was like, huh, what do you mean? And all of a sudden I had this framework that I had run through several times, but only 50% of the way, everything minus the God thing, which is a big thing. And now I have this new way of looking at my life and the situation that was causing me the most emotional pain, and it was a step-by-step process to give me the tools necessary to have a new experience and a new type of emotional freedom. So I know you said your mom was there and that sounds like it was a big deal. When we're face down and every last cord that was keeping us in the sickness or the dysfunction is cut, that something or someone shows up. So we have a sense of where to go next, even one next step to take, to go next, even one next step to take. And for me, without that woman and that process, the most important part of which was the ninth step, where she said have you ever made an amends to yourself?
Speaker 1:And I was five years sober and 30 years old. Nobody had ever asked me that question in my life. It was absolutely revolutionary. Until I did that, I was being run by my inner critic. I had so much shame that I was carrying around that I couldn't hear a download from God. Even if I believed in it, I couldn't hear it. Now that I've had a process again and again and I have a way to clear any kind of shame that tries to come in and corrode my insides for a mistake I've made, I can always hear the whisper of my intuition. Now I don't need a person or a thing or an intervention per se. I have to do what I know to do to get still to hear the whisper of God. But I had no access and so you had your mom, but take me from her saying you know you have a choice and you starting to learn about the neuroscience and how you climbed out. What were some of the initial steps you took to changing your life and reprogramming your subconscious?
Speaker 3:Yeah, wow Felt the passion there.
Speaker 1:I have a lot of passion when I speak about this stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, preach, you know it's interesting. I appreciate you asking those questions because it gets me to reflect on what was the kind of the next steps, and I refer to this a lot in my content and, specifically, I've been doing a lot of YouTube videos lately and it's been a really fun experience. That's helping me, like even reflect on my journey, but one of the biggest things with meditation, to be honest, because you know it's interesting, this world that we live in coming, you know, telling you a little bit more about, like, where I face challenges still with social media.
Speaker 3:I really think that, like addictions, they're distractions. They're distractions on what's really important. I really think that, like addictions, they're distractions. They're distractions on what's really important, and the important things are a relationship with yourself, relationship with God, and so social media and all these other distractions were pulling me away from that. But when I had my torn my shoulder, I tore my pectal tendon, and then I was just sleeping on a recliner for six weeks and had nothing to do, it gave me the opportunity to just sit down and be with myself, as opposed to like, oh, I got to check this and I like wasn't even in my. So I live in Arizona, my parents are in Colorado, so I literally like just turned my phone off for like a strong, a long period of time and I was like it's time to zone in a little bit. And it was interesting because, like it was meditation. I really took that seriously and I started doing it like 20, 30 minutes, 40 minutes sometimes. And it's interesting because I, you know, one of my bigger influences I don't grab the book here um is dr joe dispenza. Um, he really talks about the science behind meditation and why it's so valuable and why it's so important, and I like just it's for me like when I understand things, that's when I can make better informed decisions and choices. So he, he helped me understand the science behind it all and I was like it's kind of hard to dispute when I understand, like, what it's actually doing to the brain when you meditate and what it's like doing with the mind, heart, coherence, and so it was just like, basically, you ever I used to DJ a little bit back in college and I don't know if you can relate to this, but there's times when, like, the tracks are off, the beats are off I think they call it like train wrecking or something like that, and you can just notice it where it's just like. And that's kind of what it's like when you're out of alignment, when you're not like present with yourself. And another metaphor I think is really cool I discovered this weekend we went camping and it was a men's retreat as well, and we're talking about how, when you get in alignment, when you're, you're aligned from the spiritual plane to the mental plane, to the physical plane.
Speaker 3:That's when, like, it feels good and you're actually like moving quick, you're in flow, but you feel like you're, you're very still Right. And we got a direct metaphor because my friends are crazy Uh, we were driving on these dirt roads and there was two times we were driving on dirt roads and they're like pretty like bumpy roads, but there was one time we were driving in about 20 miles an hour, being like, uh, being like normal people, uh, if you will, but we were like bouncing all over the place on this bumpy road, going really slow Right. And then my friend that loves to go fast, uh, he started going really fast and we're probably hitting about 60, 70 miles an hour on this dirt road. And it was interesting because I felt more safe and I felt like free and comfortable and relaxed when we were driving 70 miles an hour because it felt like we were gliding. You know, we can get so thrown around by our emotions and our subconscious beliefs that have been controlling us for our entire lives, and that's why it gets to be a choice every single day and the more that you can.
Speaker 3:I really believe in meditation and just like, because what it does is help you bring more awareness, and something that I always love doing. This is kind of my thing now is I always imagine that I'm, I'm not me, this is getting, I'm not me, this is getting deep, I'm not me, I'm actually a drone that's circling around me. And then I'm just observing myself at all times, because that really is. We are, we're the observer, and that's what meditation helps you with. See, the thing is, I think about this a lot is when you are observing friends, family members, co-workers, whoever it is, and they're going through something, you're not emotionally invested into it and therefore you are kind of taking this backseat of like, oh, I feel for them, but like I don't, I don't feel like exactly their emotions.
Speaker 3:I have, I have sympathy, right, and you don't get so flustered. You're not going to hold on the stuff that they're holding on to, for however long that they hold on to it, that's because you're out of their emotions, because you're observing it. So what if we took that same approach to our lives and just made that a choice and made that a practice every day, where we could just zoom out and be the you, the drone of ourselves, and just observe this silly human experience that we're living?
Speaker 1:I love this because the 11th step in recovery is prayer and meditation, but that is step 11.
Speaker 1:There are 10 other steps before that and in my book right, the point of it was to make the 12 steps modern and practical and available to everybody, so that things like meditation can be accessible, so that you can have that kind of clarity to make new choices in your life. So I'm so curious. Tell me the first thing that comes to mind when I ask you this question what was one of the biggest subconscious patterns you became aware of when you first started meditating that you wanted to break?
Speaker 3:just one we're just starting with one hmm, like you know, I don't think that the work's ever done. Even though I was aware of subconscious patterns, they still show up. Absolutely, I'd say the biggest one for me is the rejection wound.
Speaker 1:Tell me more.
Speaker 3:Damn, we're getting deep.
Speaker 1:That's what I do Nico, I get deep, I don't waste any time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, even this past weekend it came up again. And it was interesting because I had a challenging experience recently with another short relationship, but you know, it was one of the first times that I had gotten broken up with and that really sent me down bad, didn't feel good. And it's interesting because, like, yes, we can look at the circumstance, we can look at the situation and say like, oh man, how challenging and whatnot, but at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what the situation is, it's ultimately just another lesson to teach you what you want to overcome with himself. And so for me, even this weekend I think this is the first time I verbally admitted it, but we went through, uh and how it relates to all the other times that I, that this rejection wound has surfaced. Because, again, like I, I firmly believe this. I think god's got a sense of humor and he'll, he'll keep giving you a little test. And then they get more intense every time, like, oh, not getting it all right, let's try this. Oh, not getting this, let's try this.
Speaker 3:And it's like the whispers become shouts and then, shouts become curb stops but, like the thing that I I said and like this was tough to even say and I feel like this is a lot of the stuff that I've worked through, but that's why I say it's a lifelong journey and like the minute you think you've got it all figured out is a minute and God's like haha, let's see about that.
Speaker 3:But I like admitted to myself that, like I felt I would.
Speaker 3:I say I felt not lovable when I feel rejection and that, you know, no one like that's. The core, foundational thing that everybody wants is just loving to feel accepted and seen. So, um, it's really identifying those subconscious beliefs and what's holding you back, which that's again why meditation is so important, because it's almost like there's this was a really cool metaphor too is like think about, if you're trying to have a conversation with someone in a loud bar, how challenging that is versus having a conversation with somebody at the campfire. Right, you'll be able to hear the message more clearly. At the campfire there's a little bit of crackling wood as opposed to, you know, a hundred other people yelling and screaming at the top of their lungs, and so that's kind of a metaphor for, like all those people, those those messages coming through, whether it's at a campfire, at a bar, those are all the messages trying to tell you what those subconscious beliefs are. But if it's so damn loud, you're not going to be able to hear it and therefore you won't be able to acknowledge it.
Speaker 1:So that's why it's important to slow down and your mind's telling you what your body's telling you, so you can start identifying what are these core wounds, so then you can start releasing them so, since you're somebody who likes to know the reason behind science, behind what have you unpacked about your rejection wound, in terms of where it comes from, so you can start to tell yourself a new story there's kind of two routes that I would say is one like yes, I think there's definitely um, the route that you want to go in terms of like, really identifying where that came from.
Speaker 3:I think that's important, so, and it's also really important to be well equipped on how to like proceed from there, because I don't have a ton of experience with traditional therapy it's never really resonated with me that much.
Speaker 3:And then I have a mentor that she shared some stuff with me about how a lot of times that can actually cause more harm than good when you unpack things but you don't know how to actually like put them back together, as opposed to like like in traditional therapy sense of like, okay, tell us where this came from, and you tell them and you finally figure it out, and then it's almost like this open wound that you don't know how to close back up, and then you're just walking around with this open wound and then it can get infected, right. So I think there is a lot of value in figuring out where did those wounds come from, and I'm happy to share where that likely came from for me. And then I think it's also really important to understand how to really navigate those emotions and those feelings and how to dissolve those dense emotions and feelings. I started tapping into some different types of therapy recently and they're more I would say more evolved and they don't require necessarily going into the heart of the matter always and opening them up, um.
Speaker 3:So those are kind of like my two stances on, like finding those belief patterns and then what to do with them. But I think it's, I think it's really important to seek counsel and work with people that know what they're doing, rather than just going to any type of therapy, and I think that's maybe why I had decided not to go to therapy for the longest time. I didn't necessarily feel like I needed it and I've tried it a little bit. It just didn't really resonate with me. But again, I think that also comes back to knowing yourself really well too, and if something doesn't feel aligned, and listen to your body.
Speaker 1:That was kind of like a complex answer, but no, I like it and, and you know just to, I want to share something for a second that came up, thing for a second that came up.
Speaker 1:I've had bad traditional therapy and I've had good traditional therapy. I'm also now in a place where, having you know, I have a doctorate in physical therapy, so I consider myself an expert in the body. I'm also 15 years sober and have a bestselling book, which is this new template of the 12 steps, right, and I'm a certified life coach, and so my my approach working with somebody is radically different and fresh than any kind of traditional therapy. It's all mind, body, spirit integration and it's all about solution oriented thinking and actionable steps to change the story. That said, you know, if I think, about a year and a half ago, I was in this friendship and it was, you know, a friendship that was never going to end with with a female, never going to end with a female. The thing I just pine for is to just have that one girl who I can love and who's going to love me. And, of course, when you put anything on a pedestal, it's inevitably going to fall down and we have this big, huge fight. She has all this resentment that I didn't even know about, and it was this friendship breakup that woke me up out of this pattern, this particular subconscious pattern that I have been in my whole life with women. But it took this friendship to understand it and probably a lot of years in therapy and recovery and having a really keen sense of self-reflection, which was that my through line in these friendships was if I love you hard enough, maybe you won't leave me like my mom did and like my sister did. Like my mom did and like my sister did, I didn't know that that's what I was doing. I didn't know that I was trying so hard to rewrite the story of not just my childhood, my adulthood. I lost my sister two years ago to a drug overdose, so for decades she was gone in her addiction and then she actually left earth in physical form, and my mom's been mentally ill from as early as I can remember. So my mom has been gone forever and in the last year had a manic episode that made her totally despondent.
Speaker 1:So it's not just that I realized this old thing, but even in real time I'm still trying in these friendships to get all those needs met, so I can feel some sense of controlling everything that's happened to me that I am out of control over, instead of grieving. And I bring this up because it was so important to me to understand the depth of that wound. However, do I live in that space? Absolutely not. Now I understand it so that I can use meditation and stillness and movement and body work and breath work to feel the grief that I was trying to jump over and then to very consciously notice the types of friendships that are very seductive, that always start the same way those ones did and end the same way those ones did and actually go.
Speaker 1:This feels really exciting and it feels like it's going to fill you up and make everything okay that used to happen to you. But you also might want to look towards the person who's really stable and secure. Might want to look towards the person who's really stable and secure, who's kind of a five out of 10. When you're around them, it's like the boyfriend that you're not ready to date that you eventually marry because they're like the good guy.
Speaker 1:So I, now I've been able to understand the core wound, grieve what wasn't given to me, notice the red flags of what makes me, want to fall back into subconscious behavior and mindfully turn towards more stable, secure attachments, which will ultimately give me the kind of love that I'm seeking, while at the same time knowing the only way I'm ever going to feel all that love is from deep inside of me in my communion with God, and from no person, place or thing.
Speaker 1:Okay, so amen to everything that you said, right, because more and more in 2024, we're really starting to look at traditional therapy and sort of honing in on our trauma as not the best thing for brain health, mental health, nervous system health, and so I say all that to like radically agree with you that, on the one hand, I think there's massive value, but you have to take such care if you go there, especially if you go there alone, but if you go there with somebody who's not qualified, because you need to be held and taken out of that place and out of the dark and into the light you know, something that's speaking to me, as you're, as you're talking, is how it just continues to solidify how important it is to be so focused on self, because I think, like even you, hear so many stories about church and god and how people have such resistance to it, just like what you were mentioning and it's usually because someone's pushing them to it.
Speaker 3:And even for me recently, uh, I've been diving a lot deeper into my faith. But you know, at church there was this one. There was like a couple weeks in a row where, like, they just got very preachy and it just felt like they're like talking at me I'm just like why are you like pushing this on me?
Speaker 3:why are you like this doesn't feel right? And so I think it's so imperative to like just follow your intuition, follow the god within you and make your decisions. And if something isn't feeling right, then honor that and listen to that. And, ironically enough, the more that you do listen to self, the more that you dive into self, you get more in tune with you and how you feel, and then you're able to recognize things Like something. A great, great tool that I like using is like after every interaction, anytime I'm hanging out with somebody, I ask myself how I'm feeling after the fact. I was like did that feel right? Did that not? Did that feel good? Did that feel like it's something I want to continue or not?
Speaker 3:I think the more that you strengthen that muscle, the more that you can use that to your advantage, and I think, at the end of day, that's what it's about, is it's finding that alignment, people that you resonate with, that are on a similar frequency. That's my opinion. That's what life's all about is being around people that are on your vibe, and so the more that you tune into yourself because you're never going to get that outside of yourself, even like you even said it like seeking this love, like I don't you gotta the love's gotta seek within, and then you just emanate that and then, because of that, people are naturally gravitated towards it and I think and if you're, if you're playing any other game, it's just, it's a game you're always gonna lose. So once but once you make that flip and you're completely fine being alone. I think that's one of the things that I've done really well. I've done it a lot, as I go on like solo trips from time to time, and I have. It seems like every time I do it, I have a blast, and even I reflect on this past weekend I was hanging out with some friends where I look, overlooking this beautiful view, and they're like all right, well, I think I'm ready to be done here. And then I was like well, I actually just want to stay here and still look at the view, and I love being around them.
Speaker 3:It was a great conversation. I think I enjoyed it more just being by myself and being with God, and so again, like until until you get to that point. I feel like it's an uphill battle because of the fact that you're always kind of looking for something outside of yourself. And coming back to the conversation around addiction, I think that's really what it is. You're, you're looking outside of yourself for something that's going to make you feel better, but it's only a short-term gain and then eventually it's never enough. Just like I was talking about with alcohol is that it was good for a second and then it wasn't, and then I had to do more and more and more, and then that's just. That's just a game you'll never win.
Speaker 1:So let me ask, let me ask you this before we wrap this up, because I told you, you know, until I made an amends to myself, I couldn't hear the whisper of God. I didn't want to be alone with myself because all I heard was you're a piece of shit and nothing you do is enough. Piece of shit and nothing you do is enough. When I had a way to forgive myself for the things I had done in my active addiction that hurt me and that hurt the guy I was with at the time, who later became my fiance and who is, to this day, still my husband.
Speaker 1:Our story is insane. If I didn't have a way to forgive myself, I wouldn't have been able to hear anything but my inner critic. I wouldn't have been able to sit in deep communion with myself and love on myself and hear the next right thing that I should do with my life and be divinely inspired. So if somebody is listening to this and they feel unlovable and they have an inner perfectionist or a rejection wound and they try to sit with themselves in meditation and all they hear is ridicule, what do they do?
Speaker 3:That's a good question. I've been there like it's. It's not a fun, not a fun place. I firmly believe that it's again coming back to what I was saying earlier it's. It's not about going from zero to a hundred, where it's like you hate yourself all the way to you've fallen madly in love with yourself. It's about just taking the first step and just loving yourself a little bit more. Right, it's just getting to a little bit better spots, because if you're trying to jump from zero to a hundred, it's like that's. That's also not a game you're gonna win.
Speaker 3:But think about this from just like a vibrational standpoint. Is love and hate are actually the same thing? They're just, they're all energy, but they're vibrating at a different frequency. There's a much higher frequency on love than there is fear and hate and sadness. Right? Have you ever heard of the scale of consciousness by Dr David R Haw hawkins? That thing just has impacted me drastically to understand that. But it's really you think about it like here's another example like water, ice versus steam, it's the same thing, it's just at a different frequency, right? So if you hate yourself, you actually do love yourself, but you're just at a different frequency. So it's about raising that up on a consistent basis. You don't again, you don't. You don't jump from zero to 100, you, you jump from zero to one.
Speaker 3:And something that has helped me a lot is I always love having a call, my monthly milestone list, and so I stack wins, I stack whole thing, whatever they are like had a great conversation, got on a podcast, or like had a delicious meal or saw a funny video or whatever it is. But the more that you can stack that and build a case that saying like, oh, here's where I'm having fun, here's where I'm laughing I always love to like have a belly laugh type of focus like hey, like having some things I like to go back to that just like get me giggling like a child, and just keeping track of those too. And the reason that this is important, even from like a, like a scientific level, which I come back to a lot, is where attention goes, energy flows. And they've studied that immensely and there's plenty of research behind it. They even did this thing called the double slit test einstein did it, I believe um where they proved that where energy goes, where attention goes, energy flows.
Speaker 3:And so why I say all that? Is because if you're putting together a list of all your wins, no matter how big or how small they are, and some you know if you're down bad, maybe a big win is that you got out of bed today, right. Or you went and took a walk, you did something that like helped regulate your nervous system. Maybe you did meditate, maybe you just did some breath work, maybe you went and worked, worked out and that's why it's important to do those type of things too.
Speaker 3:But then you have this list that you can come back to and say, like, when those emotions start taking over, you're like, oh my gosh, like I hate myself. But then you come back to this list and like, oh, wow, like yesterday I did work out, I did have a good meal, and then the day before that I had a great conversation with a friend, and now you're feeling less of like all the way behind the eight ball and you have starting to build up a little bit of momentum and maybe you're at a three as opposed to a zero, and now you can get to a four, and then from a four you can get to a five, to a six, seven, eight, nine, 10.
Speaker 1:And you really start building that up. But if you're trying to make the jump, it's either it's so binary where it's like I hate myself or I love myself. I just don't think that's a game I want to play. That's a great answer and it's practical too. It reminds me of this nightly list I've been doing for over a decade. I just recently switched the group of girls that I'm doing it with, but we will email each other a couple of things we're powerless over, a couple of things we are grateful for and a couple of things we did well that day. So the did well part reminds me of what you're saying, but also grateful for I also. I look for laughter like the air that I breathe every day. So almost always on my gratitude list is either laughter in general or a specific thing that happened that day that made me just roll with laughter, so important. So the last question I want to ask you is what is something you're currently working on that matters to you? Could be anything.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's what I've been working on for the last. I mean, I say like three years, a little over three years, but I mean practically the last 20 years, just continuing to be the best version of myself and helping other people do the same exact thing. Um, I think that's the mission that we're all on, and I've made it my, my mission, through my companies too. Um, so that's our podcast, and then we have a school community. We have a coaching program as well, so we're just constantly refining those.
Speaker 3:We're throwing more events. But the reason I do this stuff it's it's really for impact and I I know it's going to continue to um return profitably as well. Because of the impact. But it's been interesting because I I used to do a lot of marketing stuff and honestly, it was a lot easier like going for, like transformation impact type of company.
Speaker 3:I don't know. Uh, I don't know everyone else's experience, but for me it's been a lot more challenging than just running a marketing agency. Um, but it's important because I think, as this world continues to evolve, I think it's more needed than it ever has been, and these types of conversations are having are having had a lot because of the fact that people are finally starting to recognize that they're not doing very well and they're looking for solutions. And I think men especially have a hard time even saying that and admitting that.
Speaker 3:And so when you continue to become the best version of yourself, when I continue to become the best version of myself, I can start admitting that type of frequency out there and it's going to gravitate more people. And it's not been easy, but finding myself with the fact that I am going for impact and truly helping a lot of people, that's what's really important to me.
Speaker 1:That's why I wanted you to come on here. Such a pleasure to talk to you.
Speaker 3:This is awesome.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Now the reigning champ is done. Huh, yes.
Speaker 1:You can go about your day and be mediocre. Thank you so much, Nico.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love I am manifesting, among many things, you know, having my own show. I'm working on a documentary right now which I'm super excited about, so crazy. But I fucking love this. This like getting all the way in the weeds with somebody yeah, asking all the hard questions. Yeah, it's my favorite thing.
Speaker 3:It's benevolent. I learned that word this weekend. It's like a better way to say good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great way to say good.
Speaker 3:Because good and bad are kind of ambiguous. What is good, what is bad, what is bad? What does that mean?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also so attached to cultural norms. I feel like, whereas benevolent feels higher, it feels just like a pure kind of good, it feels baked in love.
Speaker 2:Mic drop. I took my back and hit my head against the wall. Don't need a crucifix to take me to my knees. I'm whipping my mistakes to jump over the grief. Breaking the circuit, making it worth it. Oh, sick and tired of the voice inside my head Never good enough, it's leaving me for dead. But perfection's just a game of make-believe. Hey Gotta break the pattern, find a new reprieve. Breaking the circuit.
Speaker 4:Making it worth it all. I am ready to make a change. I am bigger than my pain. There's no deep inside. I got left aside. There's a note deep inside.
Speaker 2:I gotta let the light. I can be brave and afraid at the same time. Practice self-compassion, start to calm my mind, taking tiny steps to loving all of me. Just a process, cause it's gonna set me free, breaking the circuit.
Speaker 4:Making it worth it. Oh, I am ready to make a change. I am bigger than my pain. There's no deep inside. I got nothing like Gotta gotta gotta break it or fake it till we make it. Gotta gotta gotta break it. I am ready to make a change. I am bigger than my pain. There's no deep inside. I got the the life. I am ready to make a change. I am bigger than my pain. There's no deep inside. I got the the life.