How to Be a Guest on More Podcasts

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Are you looking to get your name out there and show off your expertise to a targeted audience? 

Have you considered being a guest on other people's podcasts?

It's a great way to reach a new audience and have a conversation with potential customers without coming across as too salesy. 

But the big question is, how do you actually get booked on someone else's show?

In this episode, I'm switching things up a bit and sharing a clip from a coaching call I had with a client, Matt Fagioli. We talked all about podcast guest strategies, including the benefits of being a guest, how to approach hosts, and how to make your pitch stand out.

Tune in and discover how you can leverage podcast guesting to make a lasting impact in your industry.

Specifically, this episode highlights the following themes:

• Leveraging podcast appearances to grow your audience
• How to find podcasts that align with your expertise
• How to approach podcasts as a guest and host

Want to give your podcast the boost it needs to stay ahead of the competition? Check out honestpodcasts.com and take the first step toward achieving your podcasting goals!

And if you have a guest in mind who you think would be a great fit for this show, drop me a line at hello@honestpodcasts.com. 

Transcript

0:00

Welcome back to the Honest Marketing Podcast, where you learn proven strategies to grow your business without selling your soul. I'm your host, Travis Albritten, and in this episode, we're going to do something a little different. Normally, it's me kind of pontificating on a particular point or strategy or question or interviewing somebody that has an expertise and a point of view that I think is really valuable for business owners that want to grow their business ethically. So throughout the week, throughout the month, I do a lot of strategy calls with clients, with people that are interested in podcasting for their business, for themselves, because that's what my business is. I produce podcasts for businesses and entrepreneurs. I was on a coaching call with a client and we were talking through podcast guest strategies, which I'm a huge fan of for a number of reasons. The first reason from a marketing perspective is it allows you to get a long period of exposure with a highly targeted audience. And so if you have a business doing lawn care, you can target podcasts that talk about lawn care, and then, you know, the people that are listening to those podcasts are interested in the thing that you sell. And so not only are you able to go after highly specific audiences, but then the consumption of podcasts is really phenomenal, where if you have a 40 minutes interview, 90% of the people that listen to it will listen to the whole thing, which is unheard of on the Internet. You cannot get 40 minutes of somebody's attention anywhere else. And so I'm a huge fan of that. Just because you're able to share your ideals, your values, what makes you different, and have an extended non salesy conversation with a prospect that's highly qualified to then make you, in their mind, the answer to their problem. And so for this particular client, Matt, we are talking through how to approach other podcasts, both about having them as a guest on his podcast, but then also how to turn around and be a guest on their podcast. And this is a really powerful strategy. And so I just wanted to share just this unfiltered clip from our coaching call and then on the back end of that, give you a couple of things that you can do to implement it right away. So here it is, my coaching call with Matt. Just got hung up recording a great podcast episode, very excited about all of it. And so got four in the can and have I think I'll have eight by next week. And then the launch plan was to push the first couple of episodes up on the fifth and then have this sort of like, launch party thing on the 12th. And my idea for that, that I was talking to Jamie about was, well, the launch party thing is her idea. So I'm curious, I'm curious what you think about that. But I said, well, I don't really know how much I would care if somebody else said that to me. Like, hey, I'm having this podcast launch part. Like, I don't know what that means or if I care. So what I said was, what if we did a webinar or effectively could be another podcast episode? That was you and me and Jamie talking about launching the podcast and all that stuff. So now we're inviting people into a content experience that they're going to get something out of while we're talking to them about launching math podcast. You like that? Yeah. So there's no bad ideas here. The general idea is there's a new thing that's really cool, and we're excited about it. So that's what we're talking about it. So it just depends on what you want to do, what makes sense, and recognizing that you're just starting something. So there's nothing magical about a launch party. It's not like if you don't have one, your podcast is destined to fail. But if you do it correctly, then it's going to be a smash hit. But it can be a good way to gain some traction early on, for sure. I think you have much better odds. The goal is get 100 people to pay attention or more and follow, download, whatever. I just feel like, well, I always think that doing something where you're adding value beyond just, hey, look at me. I didn't even say this to Jamie, but I was thinking last night, I'm like, this would actually just be a great let's record the whole thing and push it up as yet another episode. I think that would be a valuable conversation. I think that we should probably have a pregame, the three of us, before that kind of planning, kick it around, whatever. Secure game for all that. What do you think about my intro thing, man? I said it to you and Jamie, and neither one of you answered me. And I'm like, they hate it. I was waiting for her to answer, and the reason was because she's the one actually producing it. Got it. And so I didn't want to be like, yeah, that's a great idea, Jamie. You should do that. And here's how I think you should do it. I was trying to stay in my lane, so that's why I didn't respond. So she sent me feedback offline her thing, is WhatsApp? Which is not me, but I'm like, whatever. But she records stuff all the time and sends it to me in WhatsApp? And so she sent me some feedback, and also, she doesn't catch all she's not an emailer. I had to bring the email back to her attention. But anyway, I'm curious what you thought of it. And when I did it, it was like a middle of the night moment of inspiration, and I really like it. I went back and listened to it again, and I'm like, but I'm curious what you thought. So I think the concept is really good because it kind of serves as a call to arms, so to speak, of like, we're planting a flag. This is what this is about. Here's the aspiration of where we're going. Right. Why this matters, not just for the podcast, but in the grand scheme of things, what's at stake. You wouldn't want to overplay it, though. So what I mean by that is, let's say that you have a pre recorded podcast intro that's like 45 seconds long. After a month, people will start skipping over it because they're like, oh, it's his intro. I know it's about three skips ahead. And then I get to the episode and I know that you talked about, like, say that again. That's okay though, right? Because I guess the way I look at that is like, Alex the guy. I don't know if you listen to the other one, Alex's, but it's brutal. I wouldn't listen to it again ever. But if it was the first time I'm getting to his podcast, I would. Right? And it is the front end of every one of his podcasts. But you're saying not that. So I would not put it in the same place of every episode. How are you hosting your podcast? What platform are you using? I'm going to use Buzz Sprout. Okay. So my thought was that you insert it dynamically, be able to change it, and my dude, John Mark Comer, who I love, he hasn't changed the intro, I don't think, but they've got an outro. Maybe. Maybe they did change the intro. Anyway, the outro for sure. They keep changing it and they keep changing the voice. So it's like a great interrupt of, wait a minute, this is new, which I think is what you're getting at. Yeah. So you want it to not be in the same place every time. And so I would use the dynamic mid roll. So you have three different placements. You have preroll midroll and post roll. So preroll being beginning of the episode, post roll, the very end, mid roll being in the middle. But the way the Buzz route is going to identify those insertion points is automatic, so you won't have control over where it gets put. But they've gotten really good at identifying, like, clean breaks in the episode to do those insertion points automatically. And so just by using that tool, it won't be in the same place, and you can't dictate where it goes. It'll just get dropped in the middle somewhere. So those are the technical limitations of using a dynamic version of this, where you want to be able to pull it out later. That makes me want to put it in the intro. So I don't know. So what you could do is in the first episode or the first couple of episodes, put the full thing as an intro, and then you create like a ten second version of it that you then repeat moving forward. So that could be another way of approaching it. Or just do it as a pre roll, like throw it at the beginning and then you can swap it out with different versions or hey, I've got a new webinar coming out, go here to listen to it. And you can use that as a spot to either lean into the message and the mission of the podcast or use it to point people to a call to action or next step. Does Buzzfrout let you? Well, I guess you could always do. Can you insert a preroll for one episode without it being all in the same file? So the way that the preroll works is that you say, here's the audio clip that I want as a preroll. And you can add some text and stuff like that, and it'll drop it in the Show Notes. So you can say, like, click the link in the Show Notes and your preroll, and then you can select which episodes you want that preroll to appear in. So a common practice would be effectively. You could do it for one, you. Could do it for one. What most people do is they basically uncheck trailers. So they say, put it on my normal episodes but not the trailer for the podcast. That's a common way that people use that. But you could say, I only want the preroll to run in these five episodes and then it'll only get inserted into those five and the rest it won't. What you can't do is say insert this pre roll in these five episodes, in this different pre roll in these five episodes. You can't do that. You can only have one pre roll at a time. Yes. I wonder if they're going to change. That unlikely because that's what those are for and most people aren't running multiple different kinds of prerolls at the same time. Okay, I guess what I'm thinking about is not only running that intro, but I like when people play a little clip at the beginning that's like it out of the I think I've heard you do this too, take a little teaser nugget and put it at the front. My thought was have that little teaser clip and then have the intro, but I guess I just have to do it and put it in the episode, I guess. Yeah, that'll all get baked in so it'll be baked into the audio file. Meaning that's the thing that you export from your editor will export like here's the normal episode, and then on top of that you have the dynamic content that you drop in either at the front of the back or in the middle and that you can put in and take out as you want. Now an extra layer of complexity would basically say, export a version of this episode with this segment and export a version without it and you can swap the episode with a different version later, but it's really hard to maintain keeping track of those things because it's like, wait, which version is in there right now? And you actually have to physically listen to it and do that for however many episodes there are. So it's hard to track that. But I've done that in the past. It's just not ideal. So maybe just you put the intro in and if you decide to change it in the future, then it's not going to go back and dynamically change, but whatever, who cares? Yeah. Think of your old episodes as like an artifact. It's preserved in time. It's like, this is the episode that I made on this day, the Day of Our Lord, April 25, 2023, and it just kind of, like, stays in that form and then moving forward, you do different things and it's totally fine, but that's what it was then. I mean, you can even go listen to Joe Rogan's first couple of episodes. They're wildly different than the ones he does now, but he hasn't gone back and changed them. They just are what they are. They just there. Yeah, that's right. Another thing I wanted to ask you about is I've noticed that you sort of do this, like, wrap up at the end when the guest is gone, and I guess I wanted to understand how you do that. Do you literally keep talking or have you gone back and done that later? Yeah, so my process for a guest is I record the intro and the outro for the episode after the interview is done. So I will sit with the guest and we'll just jump right into the interview. There's no intro live. While I'm there with them, I just question number one, or, hey, welcome to the show, introduce yourself. However, we start the interview and then after the interview is over, they leave the room, the virtual room we're recording, and I start a new recording and I record the intro and the outro after they're gone. I try and do it right after the interview so it's still fresh in my mind. And then in the intro, I basically can forecast what is going to be talked about in the interview because it just happened. And so I know what we talk about, because the problem you run into is you record an intro for the episode and then it goes in a different direction or you didn't ask a question you thought you were going to ask, and now the intro doesn't match the interview. So I like to just record the intro after the fact. And then the reason I do a wrap up in the outro is so in the intro, I can say, make sure you stick around to the end of the episode where I'm going to break down my number one takeaway from this interview. And so I'm able to plant this seed for a reason why you should listen to the whole thing it's like you're going to hear the interview and it's going to be good. But what you really want to stick around for is like the one practical takeaway that you can take from this episode and execute. It's a mechanism to improve retention and get them to listen to the whole thing. That's why I do it. I like that. Well, and I also like it in practice. Like I said to me was valuable to hear your takeaways even though I really hadn't paid attention to you saying like, oh, you should stick around until you just said it. But I do like that design. Okay, well, those were my questions coming into this conversation. What was on your mind? So one of them was when are you launching? So May 5 and then launch party on May 12 to answer those standing at the intersection of business and faith. Totally a fine working title or tagline. And then you just want to make sure that you feature that in the way that you talk about the podcast and it becomes a consistent part of your elevator pitch. So it's like standing at the intersection of business, faith and then even thinking about going one level deeper beneath that and utilizing more of those words that really resonate with the ethos of the show. Right? So peace, holistic, entrepreneur, business success, like those words to give even more context to that statement. So when you're writing your elevator pitch, it's like certain statistics podcasts. It stands at the intersection of business and faith. So we talk practically about how to grow your business in a way that through discipleship and how concepts from discipleship and following Jesus can help you be better in the business space. And that could be like a way that you quickly communicate what that tagline represents. So someone says, oh, I get it now because that was my only in the email, that was my only feedback was it doesn't by itself clarify what the show is about and who it's for, but that doesn't mean it's a bad tagline. You would just then in your elevator pitch or how you talk about it, expand on it a little bit to give some clarity to it. Yeah, and I think the webinar that I'm working on still is. The three rocks are personal development, marketing, and hiring. I don't know if I said these things to you, but I brought those in this last episode that I just recorded. I just put forth here's the things that I think are most important. We're going to talk about these three things. So trying to touch on those in every episode, I think that ties in, helps tie it in. Yeah. Good. So then the things that I had were more tips on guest strategies like how to get guests and how to be a guest. I don't know. That's something we've talked about as being really valuable and important to you. So I just kind of walk you through that and then just continue to get clarity on what kind of and this isn't a beat a dead horse, but just so we can further refine down. When you're targeting podcasts that are going to be worth your time, it helps to have filters for yes or no. Should I pursue this podcast or not? Because in your guest spreadsheet, most of those guests are more spiritual leaders. Not necessarily business leaders, though. Some of them have some practical business acumen to them. And so that would lean in a different direction than this is primarily about business, but for Christian entrepreneurs, without using all the hyper religious language, like if someone sees John Mark Comer, they're going to think, oh, this is a spiritual podcast. Be a great guest. Yeah. And all I did was throw some names in there to start. I was just like, here's a file. Let's start here. And he was top. But my hope is that if it's future date I managed to get John Mark Comer, that I could pull those kinds of people into conversations about the business world. Like, of course you're a spiritual leader. What do you have to say to guys like me that are like just little old business people trying to stand at the intersection of business, of faith? So pull them into a business conversation, although that's obviously not their strength. But then on the other side and I'm going to send you the audio files from today, this guy Curtis Fenn that I just talked to. So running a $20 million business, definitely a disciple of Jesus. We were able to straddle that fence through that whole conversation. So that's the perfect guest. And Chris, I forget his name that we were emailing back and forth about. Yeah, I haven't listened to a whole lot of his stuff. I started listening to his book, one of his books. But it sounds like he's running a successful business. In addition to being a faith leader, he certainly has run businesses, whether he still is or not. It wasn't clear those kinds of people would be. And again, I don't know if I can swing for what feels like a big league player or if I need to kind of work my way up to that guy, but still heard it. The guy interviewed today, nobody's going to know who that guy is. But running a very substantial business, has six kids as also disciple of Christ. So he's that guy who's trying to balance all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the worst thing that you can hear is no. So there's there's nothing wrong with swinging for the fences. The first podcast interview I ever did was with John Collins, who co founded the Bible Project. Wow. So I figured out a way to get in touch to make that request. And he said, sure. And then while we didn't have any. In, you didn't have any connection no. I just called emails and it was funny. While we were doing the podcast, Tim Mackey walked in and like, oh, what are you doing? Oh, I'm recording a podcast. Oh, cool. Hey, how's it going? Wow, that was cool. Yeah. So people will say yes for any number of reasons. And we can talk through how you can make it easier for people to say yes to be a guest in your show and then also talk through my favorite strategy for getting on podcasts that you have no business being on as far as compared to other guests and their notoriety and relative fame. But I think the thing that first I want to clarify just for me is are you more interested in being a guest on more business focused podcasts or more spiritual focused podcasts? Well, I think my I don't know if I can answer that question, but my first feeling about it was like my authority is in the business space that I'm sort of a fanboy of all the spiritual leaders. So there has to be a business context or I think I'll lose my footing, at least in the short term. Yeah, so there's certainly like a powerful testimony in succeeding in business without losing your faith or without not at the expense of your faith. And I think that's a relevant conversation for a spiritual based podcast right, where you can pursue growing a business and applying your gift set there as an extension of your ministry, your personal ministry to the world. And so I think that kind of framing is helpful and relevance, but that would be a little bit different than going on a business podcast and talking about how you apply biblical principles and discipleship to the way you do business and how that helps your business grow and be healthy without jeopardizing your own health. So I think depending on which kind of podcast you go on, you would contextualize the story to fit it and there's no right or wrong answer, you'll probably do a mix of both. But again, it's just thinking through those kinds of questions are helpful filters now, so you can chart a path and a strategy that's intentional and you could say, this is the plan, I'm going after business podcasts where I can bring faith into the conversation for this reason. And so if I have to choose between this kind of podcast and a different podcast, I'm going to choose this one for this strategic reason. Right, so it's not that you can't do both or you shouldn't do both, but it's more just about being intentional about what you're doing instead of just saying yes to every opportunity regardless. Right, because your time is valuable and there's an opportunity cost to it and so you just want to make the best use of your time so that way it's the most effective for what you're ultimately trying to accomplish. Yeah, I hear that. I think at the very beginning. It's just like, well, I just want some at bats and use my voice and figure out what's good and what's bad. I guess if you're the guest, if I'm the guest, then the conversation that I want to have straddles that defense. Right. So I guess a reasonable question is, is that a conversation that that host wants to have, you know, or not? So, you know, here's a career entrepreneur who is, you know, wrestling as a disciple of, of Christ and speaking to people with that, fighting that battle. And I think the further that the podcast goes and then my book, which will be right along the same vein, the guy that I'm working with on the book side is like saying, hey, even now you can start saying, I got a book coming out, might be a minute. It sure is going to be a minute, but it's coming out. And this is what it's about, walking that out, showing up in your family and your business whilst being an ever increasing example of Christ. Yeah, for sure. Again, there's not a right or wrong answer. It's just about like, if you're going to choose, which one would you choose? And then, okay, well then let's go in that direction. Does that make sense? There's infinite things you could do. You just got to pick the couple of things that you want to focus on and then see how it goes. And then you can pivot and you can adjust later on. Yeah, I don't know. I don't have a good answer, but it's a good question. Something I guess I'll need to spend a minute, spend a minute on. And I'm looking at people who are sending these emails that are like, here's ten hosts that are looking for guests and then likewise, here's ten guests who want to be on podcasts. And those weren't super impressive to me. Like, I looked at all those people and I'm like, I don't know if I want to interview any of you people. They're just random people in weird niches. But I guess that's how it is. That's pretty normal. So you'll have services. So this is why I don't do guest placement. Just as a general rule, making an exception for you, my friend. But the reason being that the person who knows your show the best is you. And if you're trying to be a guest, then what a way to make a great first impression than outsourcing it to a third party or a virtual assistant. This is so important to me that I'm a guest and can contribute to your podcast that I can't take the time of day to write you an email. I'm paying somebody else to do it on my behalf. Well, and I don't even know that. Now that you said that, I don't know that that is exactly the engagement that I am looking for. Well, I think there's two pieces of that. I was saying, hey, if you have a connection, then you already know this person. And so your voice has some authority to say like, hey, here's a guy that you might consider interviewing, especially if it's somebody that might not consider me otherwise because I haven't built enough authority. Sure, that's something that I'm interested in. Right? Well, that's different. Me making an introduction and putting my endorsement behind it is different than Interview Valet where it's Mary so and so. I'm not looking for that. But I think what we're doing on this call is going to help me understand what I'm going to say to Mary. But that isn't really what I meant for you. I'm just looking for you to I'm assuming that you have a circle that's big enough that you could be like, hey, here's five people that I know that I could introduce you to now because now you've gotten to know me. We have our episode that we recorded together to show them this is the vibe. Does this fit for you? That's what I was after. Yeah, well, that's what I'm going to do and I wasn't really giving commentary to what we're going to do, but just in general, why I'm not a fan of guest placement services. Because when you're trying to be a guest on somebody else's podcast, you're making that request of them. You want to put your best foot forward to get the yes. And you'll have a better success rate if you just set aside the time to do it yourself and follow some best practices. Makes a lot of sense. Okay, so the first, most important piece of being a guest on somebody else's show and having guests on your show is that you're publishing episodes that your podcast is live. So once you're able to do that next week, which be great, then now you'll have something to point people to and say, I host this podcast. And so it's not just some random person reaching out that has no context. And it's just like, I have lots of thoughts and things to say. You should invite me on to tickle your ears, my wisdom. So the most important piece of this is get the podcast publishing episodes and then establish like a consistent cadence. So that's piece number one. Then as far as being a guest on other shows, there's the strategy that I use for a normal git, a normal podcast host, where we're basically peers in the sense that our platforms are similar sizes or they're not so big that you can't get a direct line to them. So they have like a contact form on their website. They have their personal email listed with the podcast. You have the ability to get directly in touch with them via email. Then what I will do to be a guest on their podcast is first I'll listen to it. You'd be surprised how many people don't do that. And then once I. Listen to it, leave a review in Apple podcasts. Because every podcast host loves when they get a new review in Apple podcasts. And then I send an email. I say, hey, my name is Such and such. I recently discovered your podcast. So these are all true things. You're not just blowing smoke up their butt. Really enjoyed this episode you did with so and so. This is my number one takeaway. And I even left you an Apple podcast. Hope it helps with your show. The reason I'm reaching out is because looking at your episodes, I feel like I could bring something to your audience. This is my expertise. This is what I talk about on my podcast, certain success. So they're like, oh, this person is a podcaster. So that means they have equipment. I'm not going to have to tell them how to sound good and look good. So the reason you mentioned that you have a podcast is so then they're confident the quality of the audio is going to be exceptional, right? And then you give three specific things that you can speak to, topics or three questions you can answer, and you make sure those topics or questions are specifically relevant for their podcast. So this is where you can't just copy and paste from one email to another, but you can have a consistent enough flow that it's kind of dialed in and it's automatic. And so you basically say, here are the things I can talk about. And you do that knowing based on their episode titles, what kind of topics they dig into and you can spell out like, these are the things that I talk about on my show that could be really valuable for you. And then I like to, at the end of that, say, I'm super flexible time wise. So if there's a time or day of the week that really works for you, I can make that work. And I'm happy to show up in whatever fashion makes the most sense and can be of value to you. So you basically say like, all these reasons you would say no to me are not reasons anymore because I've already taken care of them, right? I have the equipment that I need to make a podcast. I have my own voice and I know what I contribute. I like your podcast. I'm not just some random person spamming you on the internet. I have some context for who you are and what you talk about. And I've even initially given to you by leaving a review in a public place that you can see it, where other people can see it. And I've also removed the barrier of man, it's going to be really hard to schedule this person. So once you remove all those barriers, it's like, well, do the things that he says he can talk about, are they valuable? Do they fit with the podcast? If the answer is yes, then they say, awesome, let's schedule it. So that's my cold email strategy when I reach out to somebody. Do you have any questions about that? No. That's awesome. I mean, makes perfect sense, but it's great to hear. I'm glad I recorded it. Really? Yeah, transcribe it, make it an email, start saying out, there's something I'll go. Back and figure out. Yeah. So when you can get access to somebody and you're able to send a direct email, then that's what you do. As you get higher up with people, then you're typically going to be working with a producer or a project manager who's the gatekeeper fielding those requests. So like Chris Valaton, if he has guests on his podcast, he doesn't schedule those, somebody else does. Somebody else is deciding who to say yes to and who to schedule and who not to. So then you're trying to figure out, okay, who is the person who is running this podcast? So there you're, you're coming through social media, LinkedIn, Facebook, website. A lot of podcasts will put credits in their show notes, like editor, music, mixer, things like that. And you're looking for the person that basically manages the show and you're trying to get that person's contact information because they're the gatekeeper to decide if you're going to be a guest or not. And then you do a similar thing, but you reach out to them as the person that helps manage the show instead of to the podcast host directly. Right? So instead of saying, I love your show, you say you do the same thing, you listen to the podcast, you leave a review, say, I'm a big fan of the podcast that you run for or help manage for so and so. And I imagine that ultimately he makes the final call. But I feel like I could be a valuable guest and here's why. Let me know if you have any questions, if there's anything you want to clarify. Super flexible on speaking points, topics when we record, I just want to throw my name in the ring in case you need someone who wants to talk about this. And the best way to do that is you position the questions that you can answer or the stories you can tell, or the things you can talk about as topics that haven't been covered yet on the podcast. And so you look through the episodes and the people, and you can read through the show notes to get a vibe for what kind of things they talk about on the episodes and be like, okay, here's one thing that I can speak to you really well and have lots of good stories on that no one's talked about yet. So I can bring something new to the table that hasn't been discussed before but would be really great for this podcast. So it's not you business face person versus some other business face person. It's in a sea of twelve different applications. You're the only one that's offered something unique that's different, that's not a repeat of guests they've had in the past. I mean, it's good to do this when you can reach out directly to the person, but this is especially critical when you're dealing with a middle person because it'd be similar to, like, when you're applying for a job and you're throwing in your resume. It's like, maybe you should lead with, I took two years off and lived in Indonesia, because that's going to make you stand out before you talk about your expertise. Right. If you get 50 applications, it's like, who is that one guy that went to Indonesia for two years? I want to hear about that. Right? So you're trying to figure out a way to stand out, to grab their attention, and then you basically give them the reasons why they should say yes to you. All those other things that we talked about in the email, do you think. That for a guy like Chris Valaton that it's easier to get him on my podcast than it is to get on his yes. So that's the third thing that I will do is I will use my podcast as an excuse to reach out to them, and then all the value is for them, because when you're asking to be a guest on somebody else's podcast, you're asking them to do you a favor. Right. And so then you have to eliminate all these obstacles and convince them you're a really great guest. And like X, Y, and Z, when you're offering your own podcast, you're basically saying, I want to give you free exposure to people who don't know who you are currently to talk about the things that you love to talk about, and I can record it whenever you want to, and I'm super flexible and all this stuff. So what I do is I like to do what I call the Trojan Horse Guest experience, where I start with inviting them to be a guest on my podcast. And then now I've got their contact info. We spent an hour together. I get a sense of their vibe. They get a sense of me, and then you're a known person to them. So now when they're thinking about guests for their show, it's do I want to have Matt on, who I already know does a great job, has a great setup, or this other person who sent me a cold email, I'm going to invite Matt because we've had this interaction. I know what I'm getting. And, yeah, we're going to make that happen. And there's a number of ways you can do that. You can either say, hey, this was really great. If you feel like part of this conversation would benefit your podcast audience, I'd love to be a guest and share some of these things there. Or once this podcast episode is edited, I can send it to your team and they can upload it as a bonus episode. Or if you want to take a week off, you can just record a brief intro and put this in there and then that could be content for you, that you just free content. You don't have to record. So that's another way to do it, where you basically give your episode to. Somebody else to put you're saying, I won't post it on my side at all? No, you will post post. Yeah, you will both post it so then you get the same impact of being featured to their podcast audience without having to schedule a second interview. Got it. And then I wonder, do you do that upfront or you sort of offer that after the fact? I offer that after the fact, usually right after we finish recording. So I don't like to wait to send the email later because then you're not in the moment anymore and people get busy and it's like, yeah, well, it just kind of gets lost in the weeds. But basically after you wrap, you stop recording, say, that was a really great episode. I really appreciate you sharing all these things. If you think it'd be valuable for me to contribute some of this conversation on your podcast, I'd be happy to do so. Do you have a scheduler or a calendar or somebody that I can get in touch with to help schedule that interview? Is that something you're interested in? And so I do it like right away, right in the heat of the before they log off of Zoom or whatever platform you're using. So you get that initial yes right there after you spent an hour together building Rapport. And then you either get the link to schedule it if they use like an automated system, you get the name and the contact information of the person who handles the scheduling so you can manually follow up with them directly. You basically get them to commit and then figure out the details of what the next step is to make it happen. Sometimes I'll have them pull up their calendar and be like, when's a good day and time for you? Let's just go ahead and put it in right now while we're here. And people appreciate that. People appreciate I'm not beating around the bush being clear, direct, but in a service way. And they're like, I appreciate the efficiency of all this. That's usually the response you're getting. It's not going to be like, man, that's really pushy. Like, I was doing you a favor coming over here. Now you're wanting to come on my podcast. I'm not so sure that's not the reaction that you get. The reaction you get instead is like, oh, this person's really confident. They really know what they have to offer, and after interacting with me, they feel like they could serve my audience too. That feels like a win win. That's the response. And you're a likable guy, so that's what I like to do. Well, you definitely have the ability to sell, which I have the greatest respect. After 35 years of doing that. You meet somebody, you can tell that you can establish trust and get to that place where you can walk them through a sales process and feel like it's not a sales process or it's not misplaced. Do you think that? Because I just don't know what that feels like. Would a guy like Chris Ballaton say, on a scale of one to ten, what are the chances you even say that? He would say yes to that? Maybe two or three. But it's not zero, right? It's not a zero, and it doesn't have to be an hour. That's the other thing. So with the podcast, you can do whatever you want. And so one of the things that you can do is reach out to his team and say, basically take something he's already recorded and layer commentary on top of it. So this is where you could react or respond to something he's done. A video or a podcast episode. You can play a clip of it, or you can say, I just want to ask you these two questions. It'll take ten minutes, tops. We could do it while you're driving in the car, totally flexible, and then you basically have him be a small segment of a larger episode, but you still get to have him as a guest. Something else you can do is just basically be like, I'm not asking you for an hour and a half of your time, just ten minutes to just answer these questions. Or we hop on and just have a quick chat and I record it. And I would love to do that. You can get creative about how you incorporate those higher level guests. It's interesting that I was thinking over the last couple of minutes about how you don't want to be that guy. I don't remember what you called it, booking Betty Sue or whatever it was, but it would be interesting to look at it as more of a podcast producer, and it's kind of the way that I always looked at my live events. People are like, well, you're an event planner. And I'm like, no, I'm super not an event planner, but I can build a million dollar event. And that's a different thing. But it'd be interesting to be more of a hired gun that could package an approach to a high level get a high level guest or podcast host like that. That's a different thing. I bet it's even productizable, sort of. How much would you pay if I get this guy? I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud. But yeah, well, I mean, so I there's any number of ways to make a business out of it, and people do it's just not a business I'm necessarily interested in building myself. Sure. I'd much rather have these kind of conversations where it's like, I'm just going to teach you how to fish and the value is in if you want me to make your podcast for you. But everything else is just kind of like the cherry on top. And then services are harder to replicate than information. I've done courses, I've done memberships, I've done stuff like that in the past. There's nothing wrong with that kind of business where you're teaching people the process, but it just a different business model. So even if it's like a $97 course, like how to land any guest in the world and it breaks everything down, it's like, well, how many of those do I have to sell to replicate a client that's going to pay me 2000,$3,000 a month? Yeah, it's just a different business model. Yeah, it's funny. I got two and a half years ago when I just became fell in love with the ClickFunnels model. That was where I thought it was at. And I very quickly found that I'm like, well, no, do I want 1000 people calling me or messaging me about this $97 thing? Like, no, I don't want that. I mean, maybe $1,000 thing, but much better, you know, like you said, you know, a couple grand a month, whatever. Yeah, yeah. And I do think we're gonna end up there. I mean, even after just a couple of weeks of talking to you and seeing where Jamie's at and what she's doing and maybe I'll be surprised, but I don't think she's in your league. Honestly, I shouldn't say that. I'm not her client. I don't think I'm happy with what she's doing. There's nothing wrong with what she's doing at all. And I do think I was just telling my buddy this after this podcast interview, literally all I want to do is I just want to hit record, hit stop, and that's it. But then you got to figure out, okay, well, how are we going to go monetize it where I can afford to pay somebody to run the whole gig for me. But let's say that we do end up there. Do you see this management of guests, all that stuff as part of it or is that not part of it to you? For me, it's not. So for me, what I would do is I would coach you on how to find and land those guests yourself and I would walk you through processes and give you templates and we can talk through it, but ultimately it'd be on you to execute it. One, because it'll be more effective. You'll get more yeses that way if it's you making the ask and not me on your behalf. And then two, just for bandwidth reasons, my time is devoted towards outside sales of my own company and then building my team and managing my team. And so I just don't have the bandwidth to do guest placement. But that doesn't mean I won't help you with it. It just means I won't be doing the legwork. Now, what you could do is hire a virtual assistant to help you manage some of those administrative tasks like scheduling or reaching out and things like that. And in that case, they'll introduce themselves as a producer for your podcast. So there's a connection. It's not just random so and so asking on behalf of this epic person that you should have on, but they would be making the request as someone attached to the podcast, as someone that's connected to it, not as a third party intermediary. So there are ways of you not doing it that we can walk through and you can try, and we can do different things like that. We could talk through the Pod match strategy because that's a whole nother beast, like how to find the right shows and get on the right shows. But yeah. So working with me, I would do all the production. We'd create whatever kind of marketing assets you want to that I would give you and you'd be able to use for your social media. We can talk through monetization strategies and I can lay out what those different options look like for you. It's likely going to be selling your own business is going to be the most effective one because then you don't need 10,000 downloads for it to work. You need 100 of the right people, and you can make five sales and be fun of your podcast. Right? Yeah. And then we can talk about other marketing opportunities outside of Guesting as well. So I'm happy to coach you through those things and teach you everything I know and download whatever knowledge I have that'll be helpful for you. Because the other reason that I like that is because then if it reaches a point and I had a client recently do this, basically invested in them and their show for a year and got them to the point where they could bring it in house to save money. And I was super pumped about that. It's like, you're graduating beyond an agency. You now have this capability yourself. That's awesome. Right? So I don't see it as a loss. For me, it's like I feel like I did such a good job training and investing in them that now they can go forth and conquer outside of me. And so I also don't want you to be in a position where it's like, the only way this thing can work is with Travis, because you're the piece that makes it all work. I just want to be complementary to where you're at right now and in the future, if it makes more sense for you to shift or pivot to either a different kind of agency or bring it in house or things like that, that you have the ability to do that. And I haven't kept back secret information or knowledge that would prevent you from that would kind of lock you in. Yeah, I think it's always about leveling up. And I told you this the other day or not, but one of the other Travis that I interviewed was telling me about all these sites that do all these all this rasmatazz, and I think it would be awesome to go find a VA to do that. I would want you to train the VA. Do it the way you would do it. And I almost want to do that right off the bat because I think the AI tools are just ridiculous from what he was showing me. But I could train that person, but I don't want to. It would be way more effective if you did that. But anyway, I don't think we're not quite there yet, but I feel it moving in that direction. That's great. This would have been a great episode. We should do that. Just like how to Get Guests as an episode. Maybe that'll be our next well. So here's something else you can do, right? So you recorded this both like your microphones. You could take the clip where we talked about guesting, and you can record an intro and say, I was recently working, having a coaching call with my podcast coach, Travis. We started talking about guest strategies and just thought it was phenomenal. I'm saying this as you right. If it's not phenomenal, you can say so advice and just like, really unique ways of approaching being a guest on podcast that I haven't heard anywhere else, and I wanted to share it with you. Here's a clip from that coaching call. And you just drop in that piece, and so then you're able to my. Other call is going to start, actually. They got somebody trying to join. How about this? How about if I send you the files and you cut it seriously, even if that's not part of the scope of what we are of our current engagement? That's what I would want you to do. Yeah. Well, I'll send it to you and you think about it, but I'll hit you back later this week. Okay. Sounds good. Matt. Bye. So whether you've ever pitched yourself to be a guest on somebody else's podcast, or if you have a podcast and you're always trying to find guests but you aren't sure exactly how to land the whale, the big one, the one that you really want to go after. Now, you have some really practical things that you can do to stand out, to get direct access to the person that's actually making the decision about scheduling the guests and understand how to approach it from a service oriented mindset. Now, if this is something that you want to do for your business, you want to use a podcast as a platform to get access to people that otherwise would not give you the time of day, that's literally what I do. That's what my whole business is about. And so if you're interested in that and exploring what that could look like for your business. I would love to set up a free strategy call with you. You go to my website, honestpodcasts.com. There'll be a link in the show notes as well if you want to click on that link and go over there. And you can just schedule time on my calendar for us to sit down, talk through your business, talk through your growth and your marketing and your sales goals, and outline whether a podcast makes sense for you at this point in your business, if that's the right investment for you right now. So just go to Honestpodcast.com grabs my time on my calendar, and I'd love to connect with you, but hopefully this episode gave you a lot of really practical things to think about if you were looking to be a guest on somebody else's podcast or to find guests for yours. And until next time, be honest.