Building a Successful Skilled Trades Business with Dan Dowdy

Join host Martin King and skilled trade pro Dan Dowdy as they discuss the journey of a second-generation master plumber in Texas. Dan shares his experiences working in his family's plumbing business and the pride that comes with being part of a generational legacy. He also discusses his current role as the founder of Built for the Trades, a company that helps businesses establish their vision and build effective leadership teams. 

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Transcript

1:56

So hey, Dan, welcome, man. Martin, thank you for having me, Man, I'm really, really excited to hop on the podcast and just talk. Yeah, I've been keeping an eye on you for a bit on LinkedIn. And of course, you know, I'm always looking for other skilled trade enthusiast who are doing their part to try to get the word out. So welcome to the show and give the audience a little kind of a story about you know, how how you ended up doing what you're doing and just your background and just let them get to know you a little bit. I can definitely do that. So background second generation master plumber out here in Texas, I think a lot of people listening in the trades, understand the generational pride there is generational companies. But you know, I, I've been in the trades for 24 years now. And the My background is plumbing currently on a company called built for the trades. And we help build and structure leadership teams for companies and, and train them up and help business owners establish their vision and build really, ultimately, ultimately build self operating businesses. But people kind of asked me how I got to where I'm at today. And my response usually is, it's a combination of making a lot of mistakes on my own, and learning the hard way and in hiring other coaches to teach me how to actually do it. And so I'm living my dream nowadays, you know, nowadays, I'm full time just investing in other trades businesses, helping them grow and achieve the success that I achieved in my business. And, and so I'm excited to be on the show and share some more with your audience. Excellent. So did you actually have a plumbing business? Or did you go straight from being an in the field tack to doing this consulting This? This? You know, this this business you're in now what what was that all about? Yeah, so I so I grew up in a family business, okay, well, family plumbing business out here in Texas. And so I've been dealing majority of my entire life. But you know, so I am one of those guys. It's actually really cool. It's really relatable for people that I work with, because I've been an apprentice, I've been a licensed technician, I've answered phones. I've been a service manager, a general manager, and owner. I've done all those different things. And, and so getting to where I'm at today, there was a point, I guess, in 2019, where I, I'm also part of the John Maxwell leadership team, their coaching training speaking program, and I just really felt called to step away from that business and start building the trades full time with a vision of there's a gap in generational leadership. And it leads to high turnover, having a hard time finding people that want to work really ultimately leads to you know, how do we attract the next generation coming up? And I just really felt that was called towards that. So I left my whole path and my wife and I kind of sold everything we had and went after bill for the trades full time started that January 2020. And the best year to start a business right right before COVID cranked up and and just really started building that on relationships, I had relationships all over the nation and picked up a few clients and just kind of went to work building the brand and building what we do. And what makes us really different is we don't try to be all things to all people, we really just focus on top down leadership for companies. And what we find is, there's a really underserved population are the trades, which is a small mom and pop companies who, you know, it's usually a married couple, they start their dream, whatever trade it is, they grow it usually to about 10 to 15 employees, a million or so in sales. And next thing, you know, they're, they're wondering why they ever did this, because they're working 24/7 They're pulling their hair out and things like that. And so I, you know, I felt like that was an underserved part of the of the trades, because when you listen to other podcasts and stuff, I mean, it's usually people talking about my business got bought up. Now we're $100 million business, and we're doing these things. And I feel like these other small businesses needed help to grow to the next level. So we really work with businesses, usually about a million to $10 million in sales, and we help them kind of bridge those, those those revenue plateaus in there. So that's a long answer to your question. But really, I wasn't on your business before I started building. Yeah, it's great. I used to say all the time, I had very similar background is I never went to Harvard Business School. But I know I paid the tuition by some of the screw ups. So so the niche you're feeling filling, Dan is the you get a existing business that is struggling, or you have a technician that may have an idea, he saved up some capital, he wants to start his own business. Do you take in those two types of clients? Or are you only focused on existing businesses? You know, we take anybody into built with a trailer, it's really the brand and who we are, are built for the trades, per se, we are built for the trades, it's okay. It's when I started, I said, Man, you know, a handshake means everything, you're only as good as your word. I grew up in a trade generation where that was legit. I mean, that's, that's really what it was. And I feel like there's still a lot of those people out there in the trades. And I feel like there's a lot of other people in the trades that are just all about selling and, and money really, at the end of the day. And I like selling the money too, and I'm not against it. So anyways, I started off with the trades to kind of have a movement of people who are like minded in that. And so really, we invite everybody to the trades just good core value integrity, people that are out there, putting their best foot forward and working hard and serving their customers that that's really who we want to just be a part of the community. But as far as who we like actually engage and work with, it's typically that it's, you know, not necessarily just a brand new startup companies, but usually, you know, 123 trucks out there running, trying to figure it out. And, and we have different programs from them from free resources to mastermind groups to coaching, which I'm sure you're probably familiar with all that, that can help them grow the next level, but really we love, we, you know, it's usually not always struggling companies, a lot of times companies grow to a million or two in sales, and they hit this plateau. It's because they don't really know how to get to the next level, it's just kind of a natural progression is, hey, we're good at the tray. We're working really hard. And we're just doing our thing, but how do you go from 2 million to 4 million or 4 million to 5 million? Like, how do you grow? And the answer is, you got to have a clear vision for where you want to go mission core values, you have to have a good chain of command, what are the next three years looks like? And you have, you start sharing that with people around you and sharing that with the public. People start there, raise their hand and say, hey, I want to be a part of your organization. Next thing, you know, you're attracting top team members to your business, who may actually be taking a pay cut to come to work there because they see your vision and they want to and they want to be a part of it. Right? Are you still seeing like in the I'm thinking back? When I started, there was plateaus. So you know, you typical technician, turn business owner, you know, they they get their first service truck, and they're out. They're just scrapping around getting whatever they possibly can and one thing leads to another and they grow and grow and grow. And I noticed that when we were doing, I was in the HVAC refrigeration commercial side, right. So I noticed when we were doing that, that from zero to 750 to 1.2. That was sort of the sweet spot. We were making a lot of money, but we didn't have to have a big administrative staff to facilitate all that business. And then once we went from, you know, 1.2 to one, it was a very small step. 1.2 to 1.3 1.4 is when our administrative staff blew up and what you said earlier, I was like, do I really want to have a bigger business? You know, because you have that natural progression, you know, you've got, you're doing a good job. And when you're small like that you can give your customers that, you know, intimate relationship. Anyone can call me the owner and you know, I can do all that stuff and have conversations with them and they appreciate that. And there's a natural progression. If you're servicing the market real good, you got new customers coming in. And it just naturally happens a lot of times that your business is growing and growing. But once we got to that 1.3, it turned miserable. Why don't we talk about that a little bit. And let's do the Yeah, have a great story behind that I actually just happened recently. But, you know, when I first got into this coaching space, and I was working with business owners, the first thing I would do is come in and say, I'd go on site, and I'd say, let's establish your mission, or your vision, your mission, your core values. And let's establish your three year vision map is what I call it, your organizational chart, really. And what I didn't know is how to get people to realistically think about what they actually wanted to achieve, I would have business owners that want to go from, you know, 7 million, currently to 30 million in three years, or from, you know, 1 million to 10 million in three years. And what I had to learn was, I needed to coach that person to the reality of what that's actually going to take. Because if I'm working with a business owner who's in their 50s, or 60s, Heather, their son or daughter coming up in the business, and they're ready to kind of right off in the sunset of their career. Well, if you want to grow by $10 million, in three years, I need somebody who's willing to really get after and get uncomfortable and invest some money and really go hard. And so there's a disconnect in the vision. And recently, I was sitting down with the client walking through that what is the next three years look like? And they said, I want to be 10 million. They're currently at three main all your business. And I said, Okay, so I started challenging him on that, what does that look like to be 10 million? So we drew it out all the personnel and the management and all the, the people and they realize like, oh, wow, okay, this, that's, that's a serious organization. And so I broke it down for him. And I said, Look, you know, if you're doing 8 million, let's do 8 million at 10%. Net Profit. After you pay all the bills, pay yourself, that's what $800,000 A year. If you do 6 million at 20% net profit, that's $1.2 million a year. Right? If you're doing 4 million at 20%, net profit, that's, that's $800,000 a year. So it's not necessarily that bigger is better is what I'm trying to tell them. It's like, you know, let's build a business that meets your lifestyle. What do you want out of your business? Let me help you get there. Let's just not think about the big numbers. And that was really eye opening for him. They're like, wow, okay. And so we ended up settling on a $6 million a year business. But they were already doing 3 million and construction in the next three years, all they needed to do was grow their service department to a $3 million service department. So that's very doable goal for people and to what you said, you're exactly right at 1.2 to 1.4 million. It all looks different. And a good example of this is marketing. When you're up to a $1 million, your company, you're probably working on a referral basis, you probably have a website and a Google listing, but that's about it. Right? You're working off word of mouth, depending on how long you've been in your community, I start working with some companies who are spending nothing on their marketing, and there are one or two Mandel your companies. But all of a sudden, you know, they want to grow. They outgrow their current their current clientele, and they have to start competing in the marketing game. And that's a completely different spin around, I tell people, hey, I need to spend 10% of your overall revenue and marketing. And we need to strategize what that looks like, it is really hard for people to wrap their mind around, especially when they're not spending anything on their marketing. Yeah, and you know what, even making that more fun is we have a and this is sort of a segue. And next thing I want to talk about the labor shortage, right? And finding quality, they care about the customer, they're, you know, they're technically excellent, they've got great work ethic, they, you know, they don't have a lot of, you know, personal challenges, all that stuff, all the stuff that makes a perfect technician to take care of the customers, they're hard to come by. And when you start growing like that, and you have a, you know, 3 million$6 million, your company, you'll have a lot of technicians, some will be great, some won't be. But when it's an immense amount of pressure that comes upon the business owners on the marketing side, if that business gets slow, those technicians will get poached in a second. And it's in it's gotten even worse, you know, and I hear in Portland, every once a while I'm looking through the job postings for anything you name it, electrician, plumber, HVAC, refrigeration, doesn't matter, all all the real, you know, common ones that people think about. And some of these companies are offering, you know, five 610 $1,000 signing bonuses to jump. Right. And back in the day, you know, when I mean there's always been labor shortages, but it's gotten very intense. So you're not you know, you're not only looking at a bigger business with a lot more moving parts, there's a lot more pressure to get to keep everybody working. Because if you don't, it only takes a few short work weeks to lose somebody really, really good. That's very true. Yeah, that's very, that's very tricky. I'll jump in here and share a few thoughts on this. Small companies quickly can get caught up in comparing themselves to their competitors and when in doing so they feel like sign on This is the only way to attract and retain these top team members. But the reality is, if you're bringing people on because of the sign on bonus, they're gonna leave because of the signup bonus, unless you have more to keep them on board, and I'm not meaning just more money. I mean, any company needs to pay competitively, in order to bring in keep top talented people, but people are more or more attached to you, especially if you have your core values front and center really more attached to the leaders in the organization, the culture, the vision of the organization, where are we going? And then, you know, if an organization adopts technology and has that going on that will, that'll definitely attract and retain the next, the next generation, and the Gen Z's and millennials and, and things like that. So I just want people out there to kind of challenge your mind and remember that it's there's more than money that will attract and retain top team members. It's just, you know, what is that and I've kind of gone through those things. And I just want to encourage people don't get caught up in that rat race, because it's not really a great long term plan for your business and also Money, money driven people, and I'm not, I'm kind of throwing these people in a hole. So I'll be careful what I say here, but you got to be careful that that person is not cheating your customers? Well, if they're solely driven by money, you don't have any core values in your business, you gotta you gotta be really careful because I think that's just humans in general, right? That that's very much a temptation. And, and being in such a high demand being in the trades is high demand, right and great pay. And if you got a license in your pocket, man, you are you are wanted, and then to the end, and this day and age, the differences, there's a lot of options out there for the people that you're looking to, to bring into your business. So what are the without giving away all the secret sauce here? What what are some of the more popular and effective ways? You know, let's say you have a growing business, and you've got that constant pressure to find new talent? What are some of the easy things that businesses the low hanging fruit can do without throwing money at people to attract new talent to join the team? Okay, it's a great question, Martin. So really, you know, I'm a leadership coach. And we believe that if you want change, you have to first change. And so we talked about getting to know yourself to grow yourself and things like that. And organization. So the first thing is, is just a positive attitude. So many times I sit next to business owners, and I hear these things, they and you know, there's no good kids out there in the trades anymore. They're all worthless, nobody wants to work, they come and they go, and they come and they go, and I tell you what, I wouldn't want to work for you, I would not want to work for you, if that's the attitude that you had. So people want positive transparent leaders. They want leaders that are real, not leaders that are always right. You know, they want people that are going to own up to their mistakes, but keep pushing and moving forward. That's first and foremost is just letting everybody know, and really just to check your attitude and what you're saying, you know, if you're realizing that, hey, this is a challenge, then the way you could say it is hiring, finding hiring people has been a challenge. But I also see it as an opportunity. So I'm going to make a few tweaks in my business, to separate myself and to start to attract these people as much as possible. Because there are great people out there looking for to be in the trades, there are great kids out there. And it's really just a matter of finding where they're at. And it's really a matter of their upbringing, you know, if you can find kids who have worked, have you ever been taught to work and have some good core values, and you can take that person and make them into something? And and one of the biggest fears that a lot of business owners have is Well, Dan, you know, I did that before. But they I trained him up, I spent $10,000 training him and they they left to go for more pay. Right. And that is the biggest hindrance of our future is our past. I hear that I just think Man, this person is literally speaking about their past. And so what they do is they shut down and they all they want to do is complain about at that moment, well, this is stupid, I'm not gonna do it again. I don't want to waste that money. And in and so that stops and that plateaus them from growing. And the reality is you just have to learn from it and keep pushing to the next level. Because you might find that person who comes to you and you spend $10,000 And they make you a million dollars. You're not me because they stay in your business and they work hard. And so and so that's kind of the first step and and attract these people. It's just checking your attitude and making sure you're speaking the right things. So that way, you know you are separating yourself from every other business owner out there. Who's Who's negative about this. Have you ever talked to Ty Brennaman the he's a he's an instructor anyway, he he gave me some really interesting insight to how the generation now learns. So he runs a trade school or he's a trade school instructor. And Ty if you're listening I may get this not exactly right. But this is what I took away from it. So So in the old days, the in a teaching environment the instructor would you know get upset if you got your phone out or your start, you know, taking pictures and Things like that, right? Don't do that while I'm in class, you know, and while you're in class, and you know, just giving you the lecture and Ty's approach on that is, like, totally different. He's, he's like, when he's in class, and he's, you know, got guys that are troubleshooting pieces of equipment out in the shop, as long as it's safe, right? He's like, he encourages them to take pictures. And yeah, man, if you're proud of what you're doing, take a picture of it, and send it to all your friends. Because, you know, this is what this is what fills you up, just be safe, don't do anything unsafe. And I'm like, and that kind of gave me an aha moment. And that the next generation technicians, they think, much, much differently, but what I have found is if you can, if you can engage the Gen Z's and the millennials, even to into feeling part of an organization, part of a team, part of something that's, that's helping other people, even though their attitude may not show it all the time, but they will be very dedicated. But they have to make a connection as to the connection between what they do and, and their fulfillment. Whereas back in the old day, and I'm dating myself, you know, when I first started, it was all about grit. Yeah, you know, this is a terrible situation, but you just got to just deal with it. I was there with you. I know. Yeah, and that's the, that's the disconnect. Right? If you're, you know, if you're running a business nowadays, and you're thinking back to the man about back in the day, as it was just shut up, and do this work, and don't complain, and, and you got initiated into the trade some way, right, you're out there digging a ditch with a spoon, you know, whatever it is, like you're doing your thing. It's a different world today, you can't you can't take that and say, because I was I was treated like this and taught like this, I'm gonna force everybody else to be treated like this and taught like this. And, and we call it positional leadership, it's do what I say not what I do, type mentality. And, and yeah, you're, you know, you, you may have a few employees is what I'll call it, they do just enough to get by, you know, they, you're paying them to do just enough, I call those employees, but you're not gonna have any team members. And team members are the ones that are going above and beyond for your organization, because they love you, they love your vision, they love the team, they want to be a part of it, that they love your customer. That's what the next generation brings to the table. But we business owners have to be willing to adapt the way we approach that leadership. And, and not everybody's willing to do that. And I think that's where you kind of get that negative connotation of nobody wants to work, because the companies that are doing it, actually are in demand, and have waiting lists for people that are coming to work for them. So what do we do about attracting the next generation? So here's one of the things that I've been, I've been just really, I guess you could call it obsessed about? I don't know, I'm looking at the stats of let's take a high school, sophomore at large, male, female doesn't matter. Usually, right around the time they're talking about SATs, or, you know, what are you going to do after high school, the parents are having those discussions. At some point, the counseling department is having those discussions, the some trade schools, not very many, but some come into the high schools and talk to him. But over I think there's a there's a an abundance of, I'm gonna say pressure, but accessibility to the college solution, the four year college solution versus traits, I think it's way out of out of balance, if you will. One of the things I've been challenged with is the first thing that gets pulled out when that when it comes to decision making, not time, not the first thing but a leader in the information that the parents and and the students that are getting ready to graduate get is wage data. And that wage data that comes out is from what I found is traditionally very, very low. In other words, what a plumber makes in Dallas is going to be you know, if you look at the BLS bureau of labor statistics or whatever, everybody quotes that, you'll notice that the wage data is significantly lower than reality, not in all markets, but in a lot. And that has been a major contributor to a lot of these students going off to college. And let's just face it, not all students are college material, right? That's why it's taken them, some of them six or seven years to graduate in a lot of debt. So what do we do about that? Dan? What I mean, what can we do as a community in skilled trades enthusiast to see if we can change stuff and try to get more more consideration to skilled trades versus college? Yeah, so there's a lot that's a big questions. So I'm gonna go back to what's an attract and retain the next, the top team member the next generation and one is technology. You said it there, you know, and I think Ty talked about it as well. But yeah, technology is going to mean we have to meet people where they're at and and build something that's, that's going to be attractive to them, not necessarily just us. And so a good example of that is, is whenever I teach people to, to attract and retain their next team member, we talked about building an avatar, what does that look like, and so avatars, you know, the age of the person demographic, where they're located, you know, things like that like, and then we start to narrow it down by time we figure out who that person is, we figure out what social media platforms are on. And the way to influence people, the next generation, there's a lot of different ways I was gonna say, going into schools, but that's that's been talked about for a while is, is getting out of our comfort zone and saying, You know what, maybe there's something to this social media platform that will help me influence the next generation, and start to show them not not ads, they don't want to see ads, they don't care about coupons, they want to see inside your doors, they want to see y'all doing team events, they want to see all going fishing, they want to see all training, they want to see all soldering pie, or working on HVAC units, or they want to see all doing these things and realize that wow, like that looks like a pretty fun team, I want to be a part of that. Because you said it earlier, these kids want to be a part of something bigger than themselves. And the way and that's one way that you can do that. And it's this leadership, you start to influence them and influence and influence. And then when you go to the schools, they see your brand, like, Oh, I've seen that company on tick tock or whatever. Like they're doing really cool things. And then you go and you know, you go in and spend time in the job fairs in the high schools. And I think that needs to be the movement. Because it does, it serves us two things. One is it will help you attract and retain your next technician, because technicians have bad days. And between calls, they're on their phones or looking through a social media platform, they may be pissed off at the company one day, they see your brand, you're having a good time, the next day, they see your brand, you're having a good time, right? You're you're talking to that person, you're training your team, you're doing all these things. One day, they're going to go to your website and reach out call you or go to indeed the indeed average and reach out. So it serves as that benefit. But it also serves as bringing you into the presence of the homes because you know, your the parents are seeing those things, right. And their kids are in high school. And the parents are seeing like, wow, this company really has it going on. They really love and care for their team. Now they're talking to their kids about, hey, well, have you considered a trade, you know, follow this company, I've seen this and it really starts to trickle down through there. And I'm not saying that we should stop going to school. I think the trades programs are awesome. The town I live in the Trades Program is big here. But it's a small town, Texas, you know, it's not like that all over the nation. And and so I think there's there's movement everywhere for us, but I'm just kind of expanding everybody stop patting us listening is, hey, we could really leverage social media if we're willing to get uncomfortable and show behind the scenes of our organizations, not just how to sell customers on social media. That's a great point. Man, I didn't really think about that, in that. If you really think about it, when when you before the internet, there was a very narrow channel about how parents and people graduating high school would hear about skilled trades, you'd hear about it on the news. There may be somebody come to the school. But nowadays, there's a lot of inroads into the eyeballs right through all these social media, social media channels and stuff. And I think if you can tell the compelling story, you right now didn't really thought about it in that perspective. I know. I've had I've been in front of of students before explaining to them some basics about HVAC refrigeration. And I went through a scenario of, well, when was the last time you guys used Google or YouTube? Right? Of course, all the hands go up. I say, All right. Well, if you guys ever thought about what happens when you search for something on Google, or you want to look at a video on YouTube, and they're like, No, it's just on my phone. I'm like, Okay, well, let's, let's break that down a little bit. So, you know, I go when you put in a search on, you know, who has the best garage layout, or, you know, whatever, whatever you're interested in. And you go on and you search for a video, it sends a request to a server, which could be anywhere in the world, that server has to grab that video and stream it out to your phone. Great Miracle. Well, in the background, that server that data that's on there is is implanted on a blade server that's in a massive, you know, hundreds of 1000s of square foot building. And those blade servers that provide you with this amazing information are very fickle. They they if they get too hot, they don't work. So good, they don't last that long. And if your refrigeration system goes out, meaning that the chillers turn off, and plumber is not there to fix a valve that isn't working, and the electrician is not there to fix a bad electrical connection, or whatever, that server goes down, you don't have Google, you don't have Facebook, you don't have YouTube. And I just shut up and watch the faces. Because nobody really gets that connection. It just, it just happens, you know? Yeah. Yeah, that's true. And it's yeah, it's, it's like that all over the trades. People don't realize where their water comes from, or where it goes and things like that. But there's so many great companies out there too, that are bringing virtual reality, to to the trades, you know, that's a great, that's a great marketing piece for your company, you bring that in, it's relatively inexpensive investment to bring in the next generation to your organization and get them trained up. Right. So what so you can keep on going with your built for the trades? And how's that going? Is your, your Are you on the road? Quite a bit? Or what? It's a great question. I mean, yeah, we work with companies all over the nation. I'm not on the road that much, I travel maybe a couple times a quarter, but I, the majority of my stuff was done virtually through zoom. I do go on site sometimes, but things are going really good. We're definitely a growing organization that's niched down to we say, we help you grow your business through leadership development. And that's just like, we believe as you grow your business, it should be self operating, meaning that you get the right leaders in place that know what to do. And they're and they're out there accomplishing those things, moving towards the vision that you want to achieve, where the business owners can go out and in, they can work in and out of the business, right, they can go spend time with their family and, and really enjoy their life and not be pulling their hair out. 24/7. So that's the that's the attractive piece that we bring to the table. And, and so yeah, we're everything's going good here, bill for the trades, we really, you know, I don't know you're getting work, I don't really know where to go with that. I don't want to be a to be a seller. That's okay. So let me throw another. Another scenario. Watch it. Let's say we've got a technician, you pick the trade driving around in a service truck, they got, you know, eight 910 years of experience. And they've been toying with the idea of starting their own business. And, you know, what would be the best Dan advice for an individual like that? That is considering that what's the first steps to take, you know, who, who to talk to what organizations to join? What what can what can give them a leg up to help them avoid the initial mistakes that they can that happen commonly on new business startups. All right, so I'll start with the home. Because I believe that if your home lives not good, you lose a lot of leadership capacity. I mean, 50% really is your capacity. So depending on who we're talking to us, when we're talking to a married couple, I would say you got to have 100% buy in from your spouse before you ever take a leap of anything. You know, and I think that's first and foremost, important, but people a lot of times let perfection, stop progress. And what I mean is, they feel like they have to have all their ducks in a row before they can take that leap. And really, what they need to do is, is have a little money saved up, figure out what their company is going to be, go out and do it. Like when you start a company, I think the best approach is to just be having an apprentice mindset. Meaning that you know, when you're opening up your LLC, your bank accounts or whatever you're going out to look for a CRM or whatever it is, like going into it, letting people know that hey, look, I've never done this, I've never done this before. So I love like some extra education on this. I think that's that's a really cool approach because people will usually give you a lot more information than if you try to act like you know what you're talking about as you go into it. So that's kind of like my first advice is make sure your partner is 100% bought in because you know there's going to be ups and downs when you start a business. Make sure and then make sure that you go into that with with that apprentice mindset and I would say third, like don't steal customers like show some integrity because life goes full circle you know, whatever you do to your the person you're working for right now. It will happen to you but I want to your employees later on down the road so I would say leave with integrity and go out and start your business and and good things will come I mean people good good trades men and women out there who start a business and and and they have a good reputation I mean to grow from zero to a million dollars in sales is done pretty fast these days. You know they're out there hustling couple years, they can get that done and and it really changes the lifestyle. Other good advice that I've had before, you know, just thinking about the mastermind group I'm a part of inherently these guys talk is one guy said You know, he started with two trucks. And he was in one he knew he had to fill another and as soon as he filled that other truck, he was already buying a third truck and it would sit out in front of his house and then That would be his motivation to get that truck filled, then he'd buy fourth truck and stuff around his house. So he always had a waiting truck for him as he grew his business, and that was his motivation to get up and work harder every day. But that was kind of the cool, cool concept. What does it cost? Now on to it on average, let's say you get a you're most most comfortable with plumbing. What does it cost nowadays to a good cushion? If you don't want to get a bank loan? To do a reasonable startup on a little plumbing shop? What's the what's a good amount of capital to have saved up to do that? You think? I honestly don't know, Martin. Company has asked me but no, I mean, people start with all different different levels. Yeah, it'd be nice if you had $100,000 in the bank, go out, yeah, buy a truck or two and do your thing. But, you know, it depends on your approach. You know, if you're, if you're buying a truck, and putting a big downpayment on it, and then and then shelving and wrapping it and putting material in it, you know, even if you're making payments on it, you're still gonna be putting in 20 or 30 grand, that truck on the road, if you're buying a pretty nice truck. So it's really depends on your budget. When they when companies start up, and they get going, our rule of thumb is that you need to have three months of your operating expenses, you kind of bank at all times, it's kind of your your emergency fund. And so as a small business, if your operating expenses is also say it's $10,000 a month, it'd be nice to have $30,000 in the bank, it's kind of a cushion, to where if your phone stopped ringing, you could you could pay the light bill and, and fill the truck up with gas and survive. And so I think that's a pretty good rule of thumb. But yeah, I mean, I, I just personally haven't started a business and everybody that reaches out to us has usually been in business for three or four years already. And so I just can't give you a good educated answer on that right now. Yeah, I had heard that it's, there's two components to that. From what I'm because I asked that question quite a bit. And the best answer I got was there's two components, your personal and professional side of it. So if you're married, and you got a bunch of kids course, that's a big variable, right? I mean, that some you got it. What I what I've heard is a six month emergency fund. So if you and your wife lost their job, lost your job, you could survive for six months, personally. And then on the business side, I think what you said is, is accurate, of course, it depends on the market, you're in and stuff. But if you don't get one phone call, if you don't get one opportunity to go to work, which is super rare. You need to have enough money to keep the cell phone on for your for your business for at least three, four months. And that's a good place to start. Do you know Gary McCready, you heard him, he's an HVAC guy up in Canada, and I had him on the podcast, and he's super smart guy, he. And I think what he's doing is sort of a model for how an HVAC business anyway would start. And he gave me a really great idea. I wish I had thought of it when I was back, you know, starting my business. First thing he did, when he started his little HVAC business he'd been, you know, he was it was a technician for a long time. And what he did was he, he networked for about a year or so while he was working for somebody else on his own time, he would network with other shops in town, other business owners. And what he did was he said, Look, I'm starting my own business, I'm planning on doing it. And if if you want, I could subcontract to you, I'll have my insurance and all my stuff I'm doing because I'll be doing my own thing. totally transparent. I won't, I won't steal your customers. And if you run into a job and you can't handle it, I'll be your guy. And, and that's how he got his his start. And I was like, Man, that's brilliant. Because everybody's short handed, right? And you don't have enough work to you don't have enough work. You know, these other guys that he was subcontracted to you. They may not have had enough work to keep a guy like Gary employed all the time. So it just made sense. And there's enough work out there for everybody. There just is. Anyway, I just thought that was a brilliant idea. Yeah, I like that idea. Because it just kind of you're being open and honest. And you're, you're doing it the right way. And yeah, I mean, like you said, there's work out there for everybody. And I think having the abundance mindset in this day and age is the way to go. And what I mean is that competitors can coexist like we won't even even ask like they'll for the trades will pick up companies in the same market. And the companies that we work with, we're transparent with that and they're all okay with that. They're not worried about that. And they'd actually really like to have a relationship with those people and know those people and and and so it's it's it's a different mindset and the old school mindset is very much like this is mine, I'm never going to share it. I don't my competitors to get this information. And so it's that reverse approach to doing that and I even think when like, you know, I've been doing this a long time and I've had the pleasure of of leading a lot of a lot of really good people in early in my career. When somebody leaves Have my business to start their own business, it would hurt, you know, it would be like, Man, I can't wait, this person is leaving me to go start their own business. And now they're gonna be my competitor. But I slowly grew through that realizing that you know what, that's actually a feather in the cap, when you can take somebody and take them through. And now they are usually you're very talented people that want to go and start their own business. And instead of being negative about it, you actually can be abundant with it and say, You know what, let me help you get there. And what I found is that being in business, or being in the trades for 24 years, is now I work for some of those people who left my business, they've hired me as a business coach. So it's kind of fun to go full circle, and to be working for those people that once worked for me who left to go start their own business years ago. And, and that's why I think, like, if I had a father that severed that relationship, at that moment, this opportunity would have never came further down the road. But we are able to keep it going. And and it's come full circle. How long have you been doing? Built for the trades now full time? started January 2020 2020. Right? Yeah, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna blow your mind here. So you keep doing what you're doing. And where it's really gonna get interesting is 10 years, 15 years from now, you're going to start getting some phone calls. And those phone calls are going to be Dan. I know I didn't tell you this at the time. But my business was this close to not making it until you showed up. Right? And you're gonna get that you're gonna get a reality check like that. It takes a while. It takes a while, but I got a feeling that you're gonna you're gonna be amazed on how many how many family and career trees you've impacted? I hope so. That'd be awesome. head wrapped around that for a minute. Yeah. I hope so. Yeah, being in the coaching space, it's totally different than being a business owner. The trade. I mean, there's there's ups and downs, everything, whether you're a business owner, the trader, your coach, it just looks different. Because you're not you're dealing with a lot of different companies across the nation who are either up or down. They're never all up at the same time. Yeah. So you're on that ride with them. And yeah, it's an emotional roller coaster. But yeah, I mean, I, I think I said this earlier, like, my, my true passion is to help. Like when I can see people achieve their goals and see them achieve their life dreams, like, that's what fills my tank that's, like, I want to help people get there and, and some people's roads are rockier than others. But at the end of the day, it's it's just a matter of like the difference between people who are who are successful and people who aren't, are the people that are successful actually take the leap and do it. You know, there's a lot I mean, even I think my my kids, I have four small kids and married 18 years. And my eight year old, he said, He's big into YouTube, right? And like most kids, they want to start he will start a YouTube channel, they don't start a YouTube channel want to do this, don't do that. And think about the youtubers nowadays, a millionaires who are doing all these all this money on YouTube, the biggest difference was there was millions of other kids who wanted to start YouTube channels, the biggest difference difference was is they did it. And, and so that goes back to what you asked me about people who are thinking about starting their own business, it's like, the difference is some people talk about it, and some people do it. And I'm not saying everybody who does it is successful, and they do fail, and you will fail. You know, you might not fail in business, but you will fail a lot along the way. But it's just a matter of doing it. And when you fail, you get back up, dust yourself off, and you learn from it, and you just move forward again. Yes, keep moving forward again, and surround yourself with good people. Because the biggest influencer in our life is what we take in. So it's either the people we surround ourselves with the things we watch or listen to. And so if you're a young young guy or gal in the trades, and you want to start your own business, you know what, turn that podcast and you already listen to podcasts, you're doing a good job, turn your podcasts on, listen to the audio book, you know, get some motivational stuff going on your life, turn the crap off, that's not not bringing positive things into your life. Because that will start to influence your thoughts. Your thoughts will start to influence your words and your words start to influence your actions and your actions will ultimately influence your results. And so people don't really realize the box they put themselves in, when they don't think back all the way to who they're surrounding themselves with and what are they watching and listening to. Because that's ultimately going to be the the influencer for the end result of whatever they're getting in their life. So if you're listening and you're plateauing in business, surround yourself, join mastermind group, right, surround yourself with other people who are successful, and I guarantee you you will become more successful in doing that. Yeah, I mean, I could. That's perfect. That's perfect. So, Dan, for I'm looking at your LinkedIn profile here. So those of you out there who are interested in you know, you have a business or, you know, you're thinking about starting a business. He's the guy to talk to so you can look them up on LinkedIn. If you're out there. What's your website built for? The trades.com and his phone numbers on there. Don't blow up his phone with advertising though. I'll find out about it. The trades that calm And we work with all different trades. It's, it's, I tell people, it's more the person than the trade, you know, it's the person that they're out there wanting to grow their business and do it with with integrity. And, you know, I love it. I mean, I, I say that, like, I'm perfect, I'm not perfect, but we like to offer some free resources on our website, there's a free resource tab and we have one called an ebook, it's three steps to attract and retain top team members. And that's a great free download they can take and look and read through it short read, they can learn more about what we do here go for the trades and ultimately, I just appreciate you having on the show Martin on the mantle and and we also have a built for the trades podcast. So if people want to go over there and listen, but hopefully when I started I said I'm a second generation master plumber, so I'm hoping that people didn't turn the podcast off when I said that, if they're in the age back trade. It's like I it's funny because, you know, just thinking about leadership is influence you attract who you are. It's like, I do work with H Pak companies. I do work with electricians. I do work with other trades. It's like, you know, you're all welcome to to reach out and you know, there's no bias there. This is still business though. Again, it's all about the people, right? Doesn't matter if you fix air conditioners or faucets, doesn't matter. It's all the same. 100% Very cool. I'm gonna hit turn off the recording here.