Charting a New Path to rebuild yourself: Overcoming the Family Court System with Dr. Anthony Harrell

Dr. Anthony Harrell is an esteemed figure in the health and fitness industry and a beacon for men's health and well-being. In this episode, he shares his journey of navigating the family court system and the challenges he faced as a father. He discusses the lengthy divorce process and the adversarial nature of the legal system. Dr. Harrell emphasizes the importance of managing emotions and anger during this difficult time. He also highlights the gradual increase in parenting time and the impact it had on his relationship with his child. Additionally, he discusses the challenges of introducing a new relationship and the importance of choosing a partner with family values. Dr. Harrell encourages men going through similar situations to stay strong and seek support.

In this conversation, Lendo and Dr. Harrell discuss various topics related to men's health and personal growth. They emphasize the importance of education and growth, particularly in the context of parenting and navigating the court system. They also explore the tipping point of men's health and how stress manifests physically and mentally.

Key Takeaways:

- Navigating family court requires resilience and a strategic approach to advocacy.

- Effective emotion management is crucial for positive outcomes in legal proceedings and personal relationships.

- Building and strengthening the father-child bond demands patience and dedication.

- Selecting a partner who shares family values is fundamental in blending families successfully.

- Finding support and sharing experiences can provide comfort and direction during challenging times.

- Education and personal development play key roles in overcoming obstacles related to parenting and legal matters.

Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction and Background
02:21 - Discovering Men's Health Needs
03:19 - Personal Struggles and Divorce
05:41 - Navigating the Family Court System
07:33 - Managing Emotions and Behaviors
10:19 - Custody Battles and Progression
14:01 - The Lengthy Process of Gaining Custody
20:13 - The Impact on Dating and Relationships
25:54 - Introducing a New Partner to the Child
29:45 - Maturity and Decision-Making in Relationships
31:41 - Navigating the Court System and Building Healthy Relationships
38:24 - The Importance of Proactivity in the Court Process
41:14 - Managing Stress for Better Men's Health
44:39 - Leading by Example: Modeling Healthy Behaviors

Transcript

0:00

So if you're healthy, if you're a healthy male, you should in general have morning wood or an erection. you you on the Super Daddy Club podcast as we welcome Dr. Anthony Harrell. An entrepreneurial force in the health and fitness industry, Anthony's unique journey spans wide -line firefighting, physical therapy, and personal training, offering a distinctive outlook on holistic health. He leverages his expertise as a doctor of physical therapy and personal trainer to enhance mental and physical resilience. Dr. Anthony is passionately involved in men's health, founding its DoTalk to promote discussion on fitness, mental health, and wellbeing. From his base in California, where he lives with his wife and two children, Anthony provides remote personal training and health consulting. Tune in for an engaging and enlightening chat with Dr. Anthony. Yeah, welcome onto the show. Thank you. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. It's nice to be here. Yeah, absolutely. So this was really cool because when I first was looking at your social media content, there was a lot of like really interesting. stuff and funny stuff about men's health and mental fitness and everything. But then when we got to chat, I uncovered that you have somewhat of a similar story to mine where you had to navigate the family court system at a fairly young age. And this is something that if I can have a million conversations of these kinds for people out there, it's needed. It's definitely needed. So my thinking was when I was preparing the show, it just turns out like it was just heavy. diving into the history, dissecting it, and then maybe we can focus on also the health component of what you do. How does that sound? Sounds good to me. Let's do it. And just to give our audience and our listeners a little bit of a background, can you tell us about, you know, who you are, what you do and your personal journey as well on how Do Talk started? So my name is Anthony and thank you for having me on. My journey started with You know, I'm from California. I went to school to study to be a physical therapist while I was in school. I did some wildland firefighting. I had a blast doing that and actually was leaning towards continuing in the fire service, but I got carried away with the healthcare side of things. And so I went on to grad school to pursue a doctor physical therapy degree. I worked in the San Francisco Bay area for about, let's see. 2016 until about 2022, I've worked across sports medicine, home health, acute rehab, neurological rehab. And a common thing that I saw there that inspired me was I was running into a lot of men who were about my age in their 30s already experiencing things that you might think only older men would experience like erectile dysfunction, low energy, coming to physical therapy and opening up about deep emotional things that they were dealing with. And I realized that this is a hugely underserved population. And at the same time, as I was practicing in the Bay Area as a physical therapist, I was going through a divorce myself. So I'd gotten married really young. We had been together since high school and went to the same college, got married at the age of 23, had a child at the age of 27 and It was just something that kind of followed me throughout my childhood into young adulthood, being with the same person and never having any real growth in that relationship. And so a lot of the things that the ways we interacted were very similar to how we had interacted as teenagers and the maturity of the relationship just wasn't there. And so while I was encountering all these men going through their own struggles, I was going through my own struggles in my personal life as well. And that was a big mindset shift for me. And when that shifted in the back of my head at that moment, about a few years ago, I started to really think like, man, I should help other guys once I can get myself some help in my current situation. And so I promised myself one day I would get to that. And that's kind of where I'm at now is trying to give back to the community of men out there who've gone through something similar. Yeah. I love that part where we go through these experiences and wish that. other people who are coming behind us or going through it at the same time do not go through that. So essentially you would have been 27, you have your child. So how old are you by the time that you're divorced? Exactly. Let's see. So the divorce and all the proceedings that went along with that took several years and that was for the divorce itself. The child custody situation has been ongoing, but the divorce itself, I was surprised it took. two to three years, I believe, to finish. Two to three years to finish. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's one component that I didn't have to deal with on top of things was the divorce element. It's just, it's a, it's a completely different layer. So did you have to go through like lawyer? Did you try to do as much of it as yourself? Like, what is that first time that you're in there kind of like dealing with the situation for your child? I mean, you stated that you first had 3 % custody and then all the way to 33 % custody, so you've been working your way up. So what was that journey like from the beginning, if I may ask? Yeah, so it's a good point. What's that journey like? Cause a lot of people, we don't talk about it for one. And two, there's really no information out there about what that journey looks like. And, you know, this is something that I've thought about ever since I've started the legal processes, at least in the United States, it's really easy to get married and it's really hard to get divorced. When you know, if there's a child involved, you know, it doesn't cost quite as much to get married but it costs a lot of money to get a divorce once you get the lawyers involved. And with a child stuck in the middle, unfortunately, that was the only way was to move forward with lawyers. When we first separated, I did try to work things out with her as far as, you know, let's stay out of the court system. Let's do this on our own. Let's see if we can figure it out a schedule and. and all that and it just wasn't happening because there was no movement. I was served paperwork giving me one and a half or three percent custody. It's been a couple years and it was really a depressing time but I remember quite well that you know, I was served paperwork on Christmas Eve and it was you know, three percent custody or one and a half, whatever it was and I was just absolutely in shock. I was like, wow, I'm not going to see my son at all and that's when I got a lawyer. That's when I decided I had to get a lawyer. So, it was about five or six months in and then I got a lawyer. You know, talking about this also gives me flashbacks of my own time with that and the feeling of getting served papers, kind of like your stomach drops, your world drops. You start figuring out like, hey, where do I pick up from here? And one of the things that came to mind for me, at least earlier was that situation tested us in a way where it forces us to change some of our core behaviors. And particularly because if you're dealing with court, there's a lot of anger, there's a lot of frustration. There's a lot of, you want to like, you know, just yell across the room to the other party or, but you got to keep your composure. And that's something that if you're somebody who, or at least for all of us, whatever degree to which we're impulsive, whatever degree to which we have like, however we manage our anger or emotions, all these things start. being at the forefront of things that we have to deal with in order to be able to manage ourselves going through this. Is that something that you had experienced as well? Absolutely. So I would say the whole court process absolutely brings out the worst in you. And so it's almost like you forget that there's even, you know, any light at the end of the tunnel when it's happening. And I remember this well, when the court stuff started, I tried really hard to... remain composed and I was thinking, you know, I'll get through this and it's not going to be a big deal. I know this person, you know, we were together at one point and didn't work out. It'll be understood by all parties involved that the child has to be first and foremost in the relationship and so let's just all be cordial. And when I was served that paperwork, I realized it kind of, you know, sunk my stomach. I was like, boy, this is, this is real. This is going to change my life, which it did. As far as like the emotions that came from it, that's actually when I first started getting anxiety was being served paperwork because not only was I served that one time, but you know, the whole legal process you're served throughout. And whenever I was worried or concerned that something was happening in the court and I knew somebody was going to serve me, I mean, just that feeling of looking behind your back, like who's going to pop up in the parking lot while I'm getting gas or trying to, you know, go to the grocery store and try to give me papers and yeah. And it's just such a scary thing because you're not prepared for it. I wouldn't say I'm like a very angry or aggressive person in my normal state. And because of that, you know, I like to avoid conflict if I can. And the legal system, it really forces conflict, which is sad to say it really forces two people to come together and less work together, I would say. And more like you guys can figure it out and if you don't, we'll make the decision, but you're going to come. into the courtroom regardless and we're gonna get this hashed out. And I think that situation just isn't conducive to good behavior on both sides. I feel like each parent, they're pitted against each other by the lawyers, they're pitted against each other by the system and it's almost feels like a boxing match and it's really sad. You know, I remember every time I felt like, yeah, you know, it would be logical to allow her to have this time with him and I'm sure she'll feel the same about me and giving me time with my son. And every time I would think that way, it was like something bad would happen, you know, false accusations against me or the lawyer on her side saying that I was doing this or that or misbehaving. And it was just like, wow, this is bringing out the absolute worst to me. I've got anxiety now. I'm dealing with depression and I am not focused on my life. I'm focused on survival. And I think as far as emotions go, those were the three big ones I really felt. at the beginning and through most of the process was anxiety, depression, and just trying to survive. It was really sad. Yeah. So much, so much, so many things there. They definitely pit the system. It's designed, it's an adversarial system. So I don't know if it's fair to say whether it's designed to pit people against each other or is that just the nature of it in terms of, I guess if it's designed, that's the nature of it. It's a little bit of semantics there, but I do remember that as well because for us, we, Went in there the very first time where maybe like 24 years old, I was 24, she was 23. And we went in there with the idea that, Hey, you know what, maybe we should just figure this out. Cause we, I got cold feet, she got cold feet. And we're like, okay, maybe we should just figure this out amongst ourselves. So we went in there with an agreement that we've kind of like charted out ourselves. And as soon as the judge, it was one of the first things that happened in that room. The judge was like, Hey, whatever that agreement that you guys got in between yourselves, you can go all around this courthouse and try and find me a judge who will agree to that. And it's very unlikely. And from that point on, we looked at each other like it's either you or me. And it just, any hope from there on, any hope of like salvaging anything, I'm not going to lie till today, it's all been gone out the window. Trust is gone. You know, I almost think sort of like, animals or like a chicken, like a mother chicken, how protective she is of her children, right? Like animals get aggressive to get, you know, really, and the same thing happens with human beings. I feel like in that setting where it's like now the other party is the enemy trying to harm the child and we lose sight of everything. And so, and that was one of the big lessons that I got going through that situation was how it is a reality that it just. pushes people further and further and further apart to the point where you start living watching over your back and to think of who wants to put themselves in that situation in the first place where they have to constantly watch over their backs. Like you'll go join a gang while you're at it. I don't know. Like it's, I know what you're saying. Yeah, it's a similar situation too. I feel like the more people that get involved, so you know, we all have the judge that we deal with, but once you get lawyers involved, that's two other people. And then if you've got family or friends giving their two cents with you as well in your life and you know, make sure you do this or that or, you know, everybody has an opinion. And it's like, the more people that get involved, the more adversarial it becomes. And it really just feels like a competition at the end and it shouldn't be a competition for the kid. But what's sad about the system is it really is set up to, the rules are skewed a little bit, a lot of it, a lot if I'm to be frank about it. You know, I don't have a bunch of anger to spew, it's not gonna change anything but it is important to know that I didn't realize when I went into this that I'm not gonna walk into court. and walk out with 50 % custody unless she agrees. And with how conflicting my relationship is with her, my ex, I absolutely was not gonna get 50 -50. She was not willingly ever gonna give me any more time. I mean, when she served me, she did it by choice to give me 3%. You know, I'm an educated person, never had a speeding ticket even in my life, no crime history. And so to be given 3 % was just... detrimental to my wellbeing. And I recall the lawyer that I hired was like, that's crazy that you were given 3 % because there's men in jail who have more visitation rights than you currently have. And I was like, wow, that is, that is sad. Yeah. And so I just know that when the gloves come off there and it feels like a competition, it's just, it's a sad thing. Like you said, we do become very animalistic. Yeah. Now, how do you dissociate? because you still need to function, you still need to go about your day at work. How were you able to separate the anxiety and the depression, or at least set that aside enough so you can be able to function? How did you dissociate the two dynamics so you can be able to function? Yeah, that was, and not as much anymore, but it's still occasionally is a challenge, especially when anything happens in the court, because not only does it impact your finances, but it impacts your relationship with your child. I remember, especially at the beginning, getting that 3%. I don't remember the exact schedule right now off the top of my head, but it's very little time. I think it was three hours at a time every couple of weeks that I got to see him. And so when I would see him, of course the exchange, the custody exchange, I would have to see her and you know, there might be a snarky remark or I felt like she might be talking down to me. Like I couldn't care for my own son. And that just... know, it's sad to say but it can ruin that little three -hour window you have with your child. And I did let it get to me at the very beginning. I'm a human being. I felt very downtrodden and very much hopeless which is I think the best way to define going through the legal process. I felt as a man a very big sense of hopelessness. And I would say the way I did get through it was I focused on exercising. I focused on trying to keep my mind occupied with things like reading or learning or podcasts. And I tried to strengthen the relationships I had around me. So at that time, I was reaching out looking for better friendships, looking to solidify the friendships that I did have. And so with those three things, trying to find a community and trying to learn and grow, keep my mind occupied, I felt like that was really crucial in getting me through. But being the human being that I am, a lot of times I would succumb to just feeling like that's still not enough. And I think at the end of the day, when all else failed, focusing on survival, you know, survival for my son and trying to fight for him, at the end of the day, some days that's all I needed to get through and that's all I could rely on. Even though I tried to be healthy and tried to be balanced, some days it was just like, I'm just here for this little boy and whatever I got to do to get to tomorrow is what we're going to do. So. At times it does. It feels very much like survival mode. Now, what was the next slightly bigger milestone in terms of like percentage of like parenting time that you were able to get to go from 3%, which was three hours, you said? Yeah, it was three hours every couple of weeks. That is really hard, man. Now, what was the next point after that? Did you get a full day after that? Like, what was the next point after that? So, the next point after that, so that's when I got the lawyer after and that process, it did last quite a while. However, the lawyers were able to work something out where I believe I got around 20%. So, from 3 % to the 20%, it took, you know, months to a year, which is very sad. I missed out on a lot of time with him. And the 20%, I believe, started looking like every other weekend or every couple of days. But I think that at the time. It's hard to remember everything because it was a few years ago and there's been so much going on. But I do remember, you know, they made it a huge deal to even allow him to spend the night with me which was crazy. It's my son, my child and you know, I remember that was just such a point of contention was like, you can have a full day but him staying the night just sounds absurd to the court and I was just like, wow, that's crazy. You know, like I am an adult and my child who I love dearly, I don't get it. So it went from like 3 % to about 20 % with you know, more day interactions. To stay a part of his life also, I tried to drive to his daycare frequently. So I had a more flexible job at the time and I took that job because of what I was going through. So I went from a sports medicine clinic, which was you're on the grindstone all day, you can't leave work to a home health job where I could see him in between seeing patients at times. And so because I was seeing him so infrequently. And with him being so young, I wanted to make sure I was there for that contact. So I would drive on my lunch or I would drive before work and I would spend, you know, 30 minutes to an hour with him reading and all that, too. And I knew that would matter for mine and his relationship. And I was also hoping that the court would see like, hey, this guy cares. He's really making an effort to be in his son's life. You know, like, why wouldn't we give him 50 -50, which, of course, still isn't the way they see it. But it all it helped our relationship. And it wasn't, you know, until recently where I got right around 33 to 35 ish percent, something like that. So it's been a total of, geez, almost six years of fighting to get up to about, you know, one third of the time with him. So it's that process from three percent to the twenty percent to the thirty three ish percent. It's been a five or six year battle now. Yeah. Yeah, I know. That's a very important. trajectory for people who are at the beginning of this, because there's a lot of like that hopelessness. What is that? That little voice of like, maybe you should just give up. Maybe you are meant for this. You're a loser or, you know, like, and I remember having to fight that constantly the thought that I was a loser, that the relationship didn't work out. I didn't amount to more. And at the same time, you're still. watching your peers and people that you grew up with, who that you're working with still continue to chug along in life. And, you know, that could have been your progress. Yeah. It's very important for people to understand that it is a lengthy process. And what it did for me is it set a certain standard of expectation with my son, where if I'm not there as much nowadays, I mean, we've gone through all that stuff, but. If I'm not meeting that standard of expectation where I'm not there as much, I'm too busy with work, he start filling that gap, he's calling me back. He's like, hey dad, like, can we do this? He's trying to spend more time with me. But what I found is that that situation really, that is actually the situation that forced me to be a hands on dad, to be really engaged, you know, the activities and do way more than I probably would have done if I didn't have to. absolutely. When you have, let's just put like a good situation on it. When you have 48 hours at a time with your child, you're 100 % just wanting to do everything you possibly can with your child. And taking one step back from my own story, even when he was two years old, three years old, even up until the age of four, he had a really hard time showing love to me. And I, even to this day, I wasn't really sure why that was, but. for the longest time, he couldn't say he, you know, I love you, dad. He never ran to me, anything like that. And I think that's just like a product of the situation. You know, it's a very contentious situation between me and the mother. And he was with her primarily. Sometimes it was up to 97 % of the time. And then it's been way more than half of the time his entire life. And because of that, our lack of contact forced by the system, For some reason, he just had a hard time showing love and telling me that he loved me. And as a father, my gosh, that was really hard to deal with. Just like I'm engaged, you know, in the little time I have with him and he just seemed so standoffish, like he doesn't wanna be here, like he's ready to go back and there's no hugs, no love. Anything that you imagined being a dad would be just wasn't there. And it was really hurtful to my ego, to my self -esteem, to my love as a parent. just to see, you know, and I never placed the blame on him. I was always very mindful to realize like this is just the system. This is a consequence of what's going on. And so I never gave up and to this day, we're a lot better. You know, he's able to show that love. But with that in mind, I felt like I had to even go a little step further to like prove myself to him too that like, hey, you can trust me like I'm your dad, I love you. I will care for you. I've. I dreamed about being a dad to a little boy like you since before you were even here. You were the love of my life and I live for you. It's really beneficial for our relationship, but it also does take a lot of energy to put everything you have into one thing for 48, 72 hours and then to have it taken away again after your time is up and feel like you're starting over again and again and again. to feel that for a couple years, that is really challenging. So I feel like not only did we have the issues put in place by the system, but also our relationship had some distance as well. And I feel you on that. It's just, you go above and beyond for whatever situation you're given with your child. And it's not always rosy, red, and bright, beautiful colors and songs. Sometimes your child is having trouble accepting you or accepting the situation, or maybe they're being told things by the other parent. And I just remember, you know, at times it almost felt like a job just to get him to show love back, you know? And so not only was I like trying to focus on being a dad for 48 hours at a time, but I was just trying to earn his trust. I think that's like the big thing you said earlier was trust and trying to show him, you know, you can trust me. And that is, so I'll say, it kind of gives me a little bit of chills. Yeah, it's very important for people to understand that it takes time for these things. And that walking on eggshell with the relationship with your own child is such a hard thing to stomach. It's like that should not be, you know, our previous guest, Rick Johnson, he said, it's not like every guy out there, or it's not like men start out with, I'm going to be the worst father I can possibly be, or I'm going to give birth to this child and be the worst father I can possibly be to this child and just treat him poorly and badly. And that's not how people start out. Yeah, exactly. And your words really reminded me of that line. Like it's, we start out just wanting the best for this child. And when you get pitted against the other party in the court system, it's almost like, in a way you're getting pitted against your son too as well. Like, I don't think it's too far fetched to say that really, you know? Did you come to a point where you had to introduce another relationship to your child? And how was that? How did you kind of like manage that? How was that process like? Yeah. So when me and my son's mother split up, it was actually right before he was born. So he has been born into the world with us, never in a relationship per se. It's always been a co -parenting relationship. And when he was first born, I was just single minding my own business. and. I didn't start dating again for several months. And so when I started dating again, he was just an infant and very not cognizant of what was going on. I think the hardest part was, and I really lucked out because the woman that I dated was very accepting of the situation. We had been friends prior. She knew what I was going through. She knew kind of the history there of the... marriage and divorce that had happened and the current battle that I was going through. And she was just so accepting. We went from friends to dating and it was more, I was more concerned for her acceptance of the situation as my partner than I was as worried about him at the time, just cause he was, you know, an infant. And I wanted, you know, her to be comfortable. I wanted her to, you know, not feel like, She was on the outside of mine and his relationship looking in. And so I would say juggling that part, dating somebody while you've got a young child was extremely challenging. And a lot of it was made more challenging just by the situation. She's witnessed a lot of the interactions I had with the other party. She wasn't there, but she would hear me talk about it. She would see the emotions and the stuff that I was encountering and going through. she saw the distress I was in. It's really hard when you meet somebody and you're doing a dating when you're like in the early stage when it's supposed to be all rainbows and butterflies and you're going out to dinner all the time. It's hard to be like, yeah, hey, I've got this situation I'm in fighting for something that's very life changing for me and trying to keep a smile on my face in the meantime, or, you know, getting pegged by the court for all this child support and all the lawyers and everybody coming and you're like. I really want to take you out to dinner and I want to like do normal things that people do. They date, but man, I'm just like so broke and out of it. So I would say that was the hardest part was more my adult relationship with my girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife. Very fortunate that she was so awesome through all that. Very fortunate indeed. Is there something that can be said about the maturity in the decision making process when we're choosing our partner as men? at that young stage versus the older stage, especially after you've been through all of this, right? I remember one of the things that I said in my head was like, okay, the highest metric was ultimately if my partner can be a great mother to my child, whether I'm there or not, then that's golden. I need to find that person who I know will be an amazing mother to my child. Should we conceive? Because yeah, if I was making... decisions differently, maybe I would have found myself in a position where we're going through a separation and it is less rocky. We're more mature. We're more, you know, level headed. We're more, maybe that would have made a difference. And so at that time, I remember telling myself that one of the big things that I wanted somebody who's going to have great family value and who's going to be an exceptional mother to each child should we conceive. Part of what went into my decision making process the second time around. Did you have such... consideration with like the maturity and experience that you had gained. Thank you all for tuning into another episode of the Super Daddy Club. If you've enjoyed our journey today and want to be a part of our growing family, make sure to hit that like button and subscribe to our channel. Your support means the world to us and it's what keeps this club going strong. Don't forget to share this episode with other Super Dads and Super Moms you know and join us next time for more adventures and insights. Remember, Every like, subscribe and share helps us create content that celebrates and supports dads everywhere. Until the next time, stay super. a house full of a lot of anger and yelling and some violence and a lot of unhappiness. And I thought that was normal. I just thought, hey, that's a marriage, I guess. I've never been an angry or aggressive child or person, but I just kind of accepted, I guess people fight like that. I guess that's how you do it. And I saw two people stay in a marriage, being my parents. that they just both seemed unhappy in all the time. And to each their own, that's fine. But I also modeled my marriage after that. And it didn't push either me or my ex to be better. Just we're who we were. We acted like we were 17 years old, even when we were in our early 20s making these big decisions in life. There was no growth in the relationship, that we weren't going the same direction. we didn't see the world the same way. We didn't have boundaries and rules, if you will, of engagement with like arguing and talking to each other and figuring things out. And that was exactly like what I had witnessed growing up. And so when I went through all this, I was like, well, I definitely learned the hard way that that's not how that's not the only way to do things. And I was really scared in a way, hard to admit as a man, but I was scared to go out into the world and just is there anybody out there that is normal because all I knew was just a bad relationship. And the example before me had been really bad as well. So first and foremost, I was just thinking, can I find somebody who's level headed and balanced, who's loyal and who is open and willing to wake up every day and work on what we have? I think that was the big one for me was like, are you willing to recommit every day and work on what we have in front of us? I, knew that I wanted somebody to take care of my son the way I valued him. You know, I didn't need her to go anything crazy or extra with him, but I just wanted her to respect him, which she did very well and continues to do. She loves him like he's her child and that was just a plus. And I know not everybody's lucky enough to experience that, but similar to you, I was just like, if I can find somebody with these qualities, then I think I found the one and I think in turn that somebody could be somebody that I can see myself with long term and hopefully having children with. And seeing the way she treated my son, who was not biologically hers, but she treated him and has treated him so well and so loving. I was just like, yeah, this woman is absolutely selfless. She is loyal, she is loving. She is so compassionate and understanding. I know she would make a great mother if we ever decided to have children. And so, I just saw such a future with her. I saw such a, just such a different life than the one I had lived for 28 years with this person. And I, like you, I just, I had some, not rules, but you know, I had some guidelines that I was like, I need to do better, make better choices than I've currently made that have led me up to this point. Because at the end of the day, It was my choices and my decisions and my responsibility to be accountable that my decisions led me to this point and I can do better moving forward. And I think that's how I looked at things moving forward. Yeah, that is so beautiful. Amazing sets of epiphanies. Yeah, very much. You know, I think this would be a good point to transition into the men's health because where you left it, there was just such a positive point. Is there anything else that you'd like to add before I move on to the men's health aspect of things with everything that we've been talking about? Not in particular that I want to dive deep into, but I just kind of want to reiterate that, like you said at the beginning, there's not a lot of information out there about the court system, the court process. And I think that everybody will feel alone at times in the process because it really is you. I would encourage men to not sit back and be passive in the process. because the moment you're passive, the way the system is set up like you and I have both alluded to, you will essentially get bitten by the system and you will find yourself with not a lot of time with your child and having to fight even more of an uphill battle. But finishing off with this topic, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And I think that at the end of the day, if you're looking just to survive, your children are enough and they are worth pushing forward for no matter how dark and how hard it gets. They are worth it. And at the end of the day, the system will not be there forever. It's there for about 18 years and you will have a relationship moving on from that system. You will have your own relationship with your child. But what you do in those 18 years does matter. And so keep up the fight. And if you feel alone and hopeless, you can always reach out to people like me or you who have been through it and who understand it. That's the great thing about this podcast and people out there like you is that. You're exposing that there is a need for this. When I was going through it, it would have been really helpful to run into something like this to see like, Hey, there are people who have survived this and I'll be okay. So there is a light at the end of the tunnel and just keep going. Thank you for that message. You know, when you're saying don't be passive, the education component is huge. Self -improvement is huge to be able to navigate that successfully because one of the little gleam of light that I saw. one of the first ones at least that I had came from me taking a parenting course because all of a sudden it forced me to take a step back from the daily, you know, infighting between me and myself, between me and the other parties or all the conflicts and really started educating me about how the other side is thinking and how the other party may be thinking, how they may be receiving what I'm saying, how, and it started making me think about my behavior, my conduct and all of these things. And so, And that's in part where like super daddy also comes from because I'm looking online for resources, examples, like who's going through this. And I was just not finding enough, but I was recognized that maybe I wasn't looking in the right places. I didn't know how to research. I didn't know what, you know, the information was not packaged like I wanted it to. And so the educational component with this issue here is very, very important, very important. And if we can stimulate growth. It will always come and benefit you in the end and to, as you're going through, you know, the system, having to show them like, Hey, I am, I am taking steps to better myself. I am taking steps to better handle this responsibility. And if there's any flaws that I had that you guys have noted, well, here I am working on these flaws so I can be able to better care for the child, which is the ultimate responsibility. And those things do pay off in the end from that 3%, 20%, 33%. You know, by the time your child is 18, that's a heroic story to tell them. That's all come to understand. Absolutely. I agree with you a hundred percent. Yeah, absolutely. No, thank you for that. Now, slightly lighter topic, but also a fun one here. Men's health. Is it accurate for me to say that there's a tipping point with our health? Okay. And here's where I think it starts off. So yesterday, me and my partner, Ryan, here, we're sitting in the parking lot and we're just talking. And there's like a fence next to us and there's a group of teenage kids that come near the fence. And instead of going around the fence, just without even thinking, they just hop over that thing and all three follow, all four fall and they just move on. And I'm like, that's exactly how men move through life for a very long time. We're just running through things and just, you know, super duper invincible and whatnot. But we carry out like that mentality of ours is something that has to be forced out of us. And. Life does that, right? We start, you know, you turn 25, 30, these are important milestones, especially 30, I feel like. But a lot of it, I mean, our dietary, I used to be able to eat five, six times a day. I wouldn't gain nothing right now. And then the current plan where that belly stays, right? So maybe I'm not so invincible anymore. So yeah, what are your thoughts about this tipping point with like men's health? Like, yeah, man, I agree. It's just not the same as when you're in your early 20s. That's for sure. And also just, you know, living life and having life experiences, whether they're stressful or good, you know, it's just you've got more time under your belt. The system is a little more experienced and a little bit more worn down. I feel like, especially as men, We're really good at getting up and going. We're good at finding the Red Bull energy drink or the Monster, the coffee, and just chugging through the day. What we're really bad at is putting the brakes on and going to sleep. Not every man is like this, but a lot of guys that I've come in contact with, especially myself, we just have such trouble slowing down and learning to relax and learning to be present. And I think that's not just a male thing, but... because we're men, well, mostly pointed at men right now. But that's like why so many people, you know, they drink alcohol, they smoke cigarettes or, you know, marijuana, because people are just looking to relax and to de -stress. And I find that a lot of people that I come into contact with, whether in my clinical time in healthcare or in my personal training practice, a lot of people can solve most of their problems just by managing their stress better. You know, stress, and the accumulation of it, the lack of sleep, it leads to things like weight gain. It can lead to brain fog, making poor cognitive decisions. It can lead to sexual dysfunction. Just so many things are tied into stress and sleep management, stress management and sleep, I'm sorry, that I felt like if we just talked about that more, you know, talked about coming down, down regulating the system, if you will, I feel like a lot more people would be healthier for it. I would say, especially in today's society, the stress, that is the tipping point on most guys' lives. Okay. The stress. What are these forms of stress that we're experiencing and how do they manifest exactly? Yeah. So I would say, you know, just starting with trying to pay the bills, trying to get up and make sure that you're surviving and living. The moment most people wake up, most people grab their phone and you know, you're all of a sudden inundated by. the light from your phone, the information that's on that phone, whether it's emails or text messages or your social media. So you've been asleep, you wake up and you immediately wake up and without even giving a second thought, you jump into an activated world. You're already activating all your systems without having, giving yourself a minute or two just to be grateful that you're alive another day, just kind of stretch and move around without going straight for the phone. And so you've already jumped into the rat race, if you will. And it doesn't stop. You go from that to work. And I feel like work is a big stressful thing for most people, especially in this day and age where, you know, the economies of the world are a little scary right now. And, you know, people are more concerned than ever about things like inflation and just, you know, the price and cost of living. A lot of people feel like they're slaves to their jobs. And that's really just such a sad thing. You know, a lot of people, I feel they live to work. with a little bit of partying to cope rather than working to live and enjoying more days. I used to be a person like that and it's taken a lot of personal work not to be like that, to be somebody that Monday through Friday is just on the hamster wheel and just loving and looking forward to Friday night and Saturday and then hating Sunday again because it means Monday's right around the corner. You know, and you just feel like you're trapped and I feel like from 18 or whenever you start working until I guess, 65 or whatever retirement is now. I feel like we're all just stuck on that. And I just, I see so many guys complaining about, I wake up and I hop on the hamster wheel. I go to work. I am on my phone and I am trying to have a relationship and trying to have good health and all these things. And it's just day in and day out, you know, you just get stuck in that pattern. I just, I think it's hard to get out of that pattern. It is, it is. How do these things start manifesting themselves physically? because I mean, you say about it, there's the substances that we kind of like throw in there to cope, distract our minds. You know, there's an element of like weight gain that comes in, weight retention. How do they start manifesting themselves in our lives so we can be able to notice them and say like, hey, this is stress. This is more normal -ish, if I can say that. Yeah, no, absolutely. So there's a couple things you can look out for in your day -to -day life. So one of them is, are you enjoying life? It's a very easy question. Are you as happy as you were before or are you finding that things are a little bit less enjoyable? Are you feeling like you can't find meaning or purpose with where you're at right now? That's a really big one. And that's like a mental health screening question that you're taught in healthcare, but it's a good one for us all to ask ourselves. Do you feel... supported? Do you feel like you have a community? Do you feel interest in things still? That's a huge one. Number two, apart from your mood, you can look and just wake up and you can look and see how do your clothes fit? What's the scale saying these days? And I think those are just two metrics, part of the whole puzzle that is your life. But it does tell yourself like, hey, am I gaining weight all of a sudden? Am I like you said, retaining weight? And then you can start looking at like, well, am I drinking enough water still? You know, am I eating some fruits and vegetables? Yes or no. So, then you got, you know, you got the nutrition and then you ask yourself, like, am I exercising at all? Am I finding time for self -care? That's just another easy one. It's yes or no. Am I moving around? There's a test. It's not really a test, but it's like a sign and it's a little bit, I don't know when I call it provocative, but I think it's important. So if you're healthy, if you're a healthy male, you should in general, you should have waking up with morning wood or an erection if you will. And I'm saying this because a lot of men, so a lot of men when they're very stressed, it affects your libido, it affects your testosterone and all that. If you're a pretty healthy man in general, you should have blood flow down there. And that's something that I actually told a lot of my patients who were in the tech space, field up in the Bay Area was it's an easy test just like, hey, am I, do I have a levita or am I waking up in the morning and there's blood flow down there? Yes or no, if there's not, that could be indicative of a problem. Not only a stress problem, it could also be indicative of a heart issue as well. A lot of people don't realize that blood flow down there is, it's a systemic thing. Your cardiovascular system is systemic. And that could be a sign of heart disease if you're not getting blood flow down there, especially if you're in your 20s, 30s or 40s. So that's an important thing. It's kind of a weird thing to say, but having worked in healthcare for a while now, I think more guys should be aware of that. Just that, you know, being in tune with your body, which a lot of guys are not in tune with their bodies whatsoever. Yeah. What should that mean for us? Cause even very interesting you bring that up because I always associated that with the urge to urinate in the morning. Yeah. wild enough, but most people are like, hey, what were you dreaming about or whatever? We just kind of like, yeah, pass it off. But you're saying there's an actual, almost like a health index. It's a health indicator. I don't have the research on top of the top of my head to talk about it, but it's something that the system, if your system as a male is balanced and performing well, then the system should be working and. That's one indicator that erectile dysfunction, a lot of times when it's encountered in 40s, 50s, 60s, a lot of that actually has to do with lifestyle habits. And those lifestyle habits lead to obesity, smoking, overusing alcohol, stress management as we talked about, exercising or the lack thereof. Those are all things that actually contribute to some men. experiencing erectile dysfunction. And so if you can look at those things, not just as an old man's problem, but also put them into the scope of your life in the twenties and thirties, you'll see the repercussions of that if you're looking for it. Are there any other such problems that we should be looking at in such a way as well? Like not so much as an old man's problem, but a young man problem that jumped to mind if any? I would say as far as a young man's problem, like physically, nothing that just by the top of my head, but I feel like the young male has a huge issue addressing mental health. And I know that especially as a young man, you want to be part of the pack. You want to look, you know, like you can handle anything. And that's something that I really recognize. And you can recognize it in people under the age of 18 as well, too. It's just like, hey, like I wouldn't expect life to have worn somebody down. That's 18 to 25 just yet. And so I think that young men especially should look out for that their mental health changes feelings of loneliness depression hopelessness darkness those types of things I would highly recommend that if you do feel those things that you talk to somebody because it's it does happen but if you get in a funk and you stay there that's when you've got trouble on your hands and so You know you might be young enough to where you're not showing as many physical signs just yet. I But those will show up in your late 20s or 30s, what we had just talked about. But I think when you're a little younger, really look out for that mental health. There's a whole field of study with that, right? Yeah, I think it's called logotherapy, if you're familiar. Heard of it. Yeah. I need to buy this book again because I mean, and let's touch base on this because we've brought it up twice or so, but the whole. sense of purpose in life is very, very important. And is that just reflection of where we are with society where a young man of 20, 25 is feeling as though they don't have a purpose anymore? You know, I almost wondered if this is a thing that maybe 50, a hundred years ago is not really a thing, or maybe it's just society is changing and we don't have, like our roles are changing in society, so we don't have the same. we need to figure out our footing again and where we start from. Any thoughts on that? Absolutely. I am not a trained psychologist. I don't have any psychology training, but I do have opinions, you know, and an experience. Yeah, yeah, whatever I could offer. No, I mean, I think we can all have very valid opinions on this. I think there has been a lot of change. I think that an easy one to point out as a health care provider is that we're less active than ever. as a whole society. And because of that, what a lot of people don't realize is that stress applied in the right direction with the right amount of force is a good thing. That's what working out is. That's what training your muscles are. And your brain and emotions are similar. We as humans like to have challenges. And I think because we live in such a convenient society now, because things are so convenient, And because we always feel like somebody else will do the thing, I can just stay focused on what's here in front of me. I don't need to go step up and do the thing. Because we're encountering that as men, I feel like a lot of people do feel lost. A lot of people feel like, what's the reason I'm here? What's the purpose? There's, you know, somebody else will take care of it and if they don't, well, life will go on. And I think, you know, that's just... It's just such a sad thing to see because, you know, when we grew up, I think sports were a little different. And then I'm sure the people, the generations above us will say similar. I just feel like people were a lot more active. The competitiveness was a whole lot different. We didn't look at things like giving everybody, you know, a trophy or a medal for getting like 10th place. It was usually first place that got it or maybe second place. But these days, a lot has changed. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong. but things have just changed and the competitive spirit has changed with that. And I think it's a good thing as, you know, our generation and the generations older than us to not always just force the subject and say like, hey, when it was back in my day, things were better. But to see where the younger generation is coming from and try to help them out a little bit. I think that's something that's a really big divisive thing is. all the generations these days, we all are like, we're millennials, we're, you know, Gen Z, Gen X. And we all like look at it like, you know, this is not our problem. This is your guys problem. You guys caused this. And I feel like if we all came together a little bit more and we're like, hey, like what have we all done here to get society to this point, to get our men and our boys to this point, maybe we could figure it out. But until we have that discussion, I just feel like, you know, we're going to keep relying on that thing. Like I was mentioning that you just. somebody else will take care of it. It'll handle itself and if it doesn't, well. But that's kind of where I think how we've gotten here. Thank you for that. I love your opinion on that by the way. Thanks. And that's where your social media is really cool because it really, you have like all these different ways of pushing people to challenge themselves. One of the things that I had here that I wanted to bring up was leading by example as a way of life and model for our children, but it's not just our children, it's also. other generations. And I mean, I'll bring up the previous episode with Rick Johnson too, cause I'm like creating promotional material out of it. And there's a lot of things that are sticking out, but sometimes it's enough for a young boy to see another man doing something, something that men do. And that person may not be their father, direct relative, but for that young man, for the young boy, they look at that and be like, okay, cool. So that's something that men do. Right. And that can go into us having these conversations about stress and the various ways that affect us to physical health and different, some of the challenges that you have on your Instagram there. And I just wanted to know if you could kind of like talk about this intersection of like challenging ourselves and also how it trickles down some more. Yeah. I think that if more people were to embrace exercise and working out, I mean, that's like the easiest way you can really challenge yourself. sticking to a movement plan, a health practice. That's just something that's always been accessible to most people. And it can be as easy as just doing some sit -ups in your house, take more standing breaks while you're at work. Most people have such an issue embracing challenges because they see a lot of friction and barriers to even adhering to the process in the first place. So if it's such a chore to go to the gym, then you're not gonna go to the gym. If you have to make a heroic effort to choose to drink water rather than the soda with all the sugar, you're not gonna make the heroic effort every time. You know, you've gotta make things accessible and you've gotta find a way to build in discipline into your life. And that's something that comes and goes is motivation. A lot of people just say like, hey, I'm just not motivated to go out and challenge myself. I'm not motivated to seek the opportunity. And the truth is, I know you could probably agree, like we're just not motivated all the time either. We're human beings. We're disciplined. You have to learn to be disciplined. And I think even the best performers in the world, whether they're athletes or whomever, I'm sure they don't feel motivated all the time either. It all comes down to just structured discipline and setting yourself up for success. And when you do those things, when you model those behaviors, the people around you will take notice too. I think, you know, both as fathers, when my son is home, I really make it a point to try to work out a little bit. I don't make him work out, he's six years old, but I do tell him, hey, dad's gonna go and work on his muscles or do something for his health because I wanna be big and strong for you one day. And he's like, okay, dad, that's cool. And I know he hears it, though, and I know he sees it, and then I caught him the other day in there in the little gym we have at home. trying to do some pushups on his own. And I was like, that's awesome, buddy. Like that's really cool. The same thing with like eating habits. I think it's important to keep like fruit and veggies in the house if you want your kids to eat fruit and veggies. I think it's always kind of hilarious when people are, you know, my kid eats so bad and this and that, but they go out to like Starbucks all the time or they're like ordering out, take out every night. And it's, it's hard. I understand. I'm. You know, I'm a parent to two kids. You're a parent. We understand that it's hard to stick to those good habits, but the children really do. They see it and they model that behavior. The third part I wanted to talk about there is like how you manage your stress, because I like what you were just hinting at that, you know, there's such an intersection about how we live our lives and the other generations. If things stress you out and you go and you, you know, go straight to the bottle of whiskey in your cabinet, your kids are going to see that eventually. If you are interacting and arguing with your partner and you're yelling at your partner, your child sees that and absorbs it as well. And also on the opposite side, if they see you treating your partner with respect and love, you know, this is the way we talk to mom. Even when we disagree, if I'm talking to mom respectfully, the children absorb that as well. And I think that's important to remember is the way that you interact on a day -to-day basis, even though... You know, you don't think you're making an impact positive or negative. It is making some sort of impact. And just by modeling behavior as at home, if we look at home as the functional unit of change for society as men. So if we took care of our home life and the people within our home, that could really be a functional unit of change in the whole world because what is seen in the home and interacted with our spouses, with our children, with our children's friends who might come over. they absorb that and that goes out into the world and it can impact people positively or negatively depending on what you're doing at home. And I think that's how what we do does transcend generations and it does intersect with everybody else. Wow, that's such a great answer. Thank you so much for that. Yeah, we've been, you know, we're over the hour mark and we've covered a lot of grounds. This was such an informative episode. It's been a while since I also wanted to dive back into the court. Or deal funny enough, like our podcast started with the idea of helping guide men and parents who are navigating the court system. And although we've done it indirectly, this is the actual second episode that directly deals with again, like the experience of lay persons experience of navigating the court system. So I thank you very much for the opportunity to have this conversation with us and for being so open and sharing your story for the world to hear. Absolutely. Thank you for doing all this. Like I said, had this been around a few years ago, I think it would really, I think it would save some lives to be honest. I think that you're well aware, a lot of men, you know, there's a lot of male suicide out there. Men are more likely than women to commit suicide and it's a heavy topic. And I think people like you are the shining light and the beacon of hope. Whether you know it or not, I think what you're doing is just so important, so valuable. And, I really think that if more men encountered your work and your podcasts, your social media, I think you would save some lives. And I know you are saving lives because as men, we don't always reach out to the people who impact us and aren't always messaging people and saying like, hey man, you kept me going during that hard time, but men see it, men know. And I think you are a true leader in this field and I'm really appreciative for your time and for you having me on and I'm appreciative of your work. man, I'm truly humbled and honored. Thank you very much for your words there. I do owe this platform a episode on male suicide specifically. It is absolutely coming. It's something that we certainly, yeah, we will dive into that in the coming year here. Such an important topic. We'll continue chugging along here with everything that we're doing and hope to continue to have such an impact. And if I can leave you with the last word here where maybe you can tell us about, you know, what's coming ahead for you, where people can find your work and. Again, just a shameless plug here. They just yours. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. So as you mentioned before, I founded a platform called it's dude talk. I changed the name of it to my own name recently. And there's a reason for that because I'm working on, I'm trying to get it's dude talk to be a little bit more ready for the world than I think it was. I was trying to create it online in front of everybody. And I want it to, I want to give a better product to everybody, but it doesn't mean that I'm not. still talking about important issues and I'm not going to continue to try to talk and address important things out there for men, women, people who support just bettering themselves and improving the world. So I'm still on the mission just like you to do that. But my socials right now, they're Dr. Anthony Harrell. So you can find me, it's just D -R -A -N-T -H -O -N -Y -H -A -R -R -E -L -L. Just wanted to make sure that my whole name is spelled out there. And so you can find me on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, which is X now or something. And YouTube and everything is growing. I'm kind of like you and your crew over there. I'm like very motivated and I'm trying to grow everything. And I've got a website as well. www .dranthonyherald .com where I'm posting on my blog and trying to share more of what I know up there. And if you're interested in any. online personal training. I coach people remotely all over the world. I'd be happy to work with you. I've been trained as a clinician. I've been in jobs like firefighting. I have done a lot of things in my life that have led up to this point of me getting into personal training and health and wellness. So if you do want some help, please reach out. I'm always flexible and I'm always looking to serve and to help people that need my help. So you can contact me through any of my platforms. You can find me on my website and I am. always looking to work with more people. I'm just, I'm very excited about, you know, the work you're doing and I'm excited to kind of go alongside you and to continue helping men and people all around the world and make the world a better place. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for that. Yeah, we'll have all the necessary link available for everyone. And what we'll do is, what I'll say also is please come back onto this platform. Let us know about what you're doing. give us some updates and yeah we'll always promote your work out there for people to see you're a wonderful human being and yeah we thank you for all your work and to all our audience thank you very much for tuning in and yeah we will certainly catch you guys on the next one thank you thank you That was great. Yeah.