Yaser Birjas - Marriage is Love, Mercy, Passion, & Compassion. Ramadan Series Episode 2

Sh. Yaser Birjas joins me again and we go in depth on marriage. Listening to him talk about marriage and the advice he share is very enlightening. When I went through my divorce, I went to him for counseling. I honestly believe his guidance helped me over come one of the most difficult times of my life.



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Transcript

Nye Armstrong: 0:00

You're listening to the happy people podcast with Nye Armstrong. Today's guest is sh. Yaser Birjas on week two of our Ramadan series with him. We are going to talk about marriage and so he's really well known for marriage counseling and we got into it a little bit in the last episode but we're really gonna dive into it, this one. and the gems that he's spitting are amazing and if you take nothing else from this, just know that counseling and therapy are just some of the best things you can do for yourself. And it was one of the best things that I did for myself and he, if you're, if he is available, he, he's somebody I strongly recommend. Um, and I'll put his contact information in the show notes, but without further ado, Sh. Yaser Birjas. Intro Song What was one of those, because you do teach marriage courses and you do marriage, premarital, marital and what I know you for because you actually helped me with life coaching after my divorce. So you, what would be like one of your takeaways from each step of that process? Like, what would you, what would you sort of recommend to people for before they get married? Which is the whole thing of like love notes. Yeah. Like what was, what would you recommend for people, because you always say, it's sort of like you have to go in and assess the vehicle right now. And then during marriage you, um, maintenance you maintenance every, every few months or every year, whatever. What would you say was, is like a big thing for people to take away four before marriage?

Yaser Birjas: 1:56

Here's the thing. We live in an age where, um, there's a huge, a huge, I would say, demand on individuality. Uh, we live a radical state of individuality in our time. Everybody wants to be, um, uh, the start of themselves. And that's why social media contributes to that as well. Everybody has their own, uh, blog there on, uh, uh, accounts, their own Instagrams and all this stuff and so on. So everybody's focusing on themselves and they're trying to make, uh, uh, stars with themselves. Unfortunately, in the same process, when people get married, they come with sometimes with the sound, with the same selfish mode. And one day get married. Uh, especially when they hit their 20s and the start, you know, getting into finding a partner and so on. That sense of selfishness is still there cause that age would the 25, 24, 25 and above, it's more of a um, enrichment phase. It's more of a filtration phase. So people now they want to do things meaningful to themselves. They're looking for what's beneficial for them. So what I recommend for young men and women in that age group who are about to get married or even older than that, as matter of fact, they have to learn about the other party more than they learn about themselves. Cause you might think you know yourself, but what you need to read it to start learning is how to, how to put yourself in the shoes of your partner, of your spouse or spouse to be. So at least you would have the different perspective instead of taking the only one direction, you, all those tickets, you know, both, both sides. So I always recommend for them to do premarital. They have to do premarital with professionals. I do pastoral counseling, which means I combined between spirituality, between, you know, psychology, my coaching, you know, to a degree as well and all that stuff. So I do all of that and I help people in a packaging things from a perspective, spiritual perspective, religious perspective, psychological perspective and so on. But definitely whoever's getting mad at, they have to humble themselves and go and spend few$100 on alive, I would say changing experience because taken, you know, that training is going to last for them. A life, you know? Yeah. I need to experience not just for the, for the time, for, for that, for the beginning of the relationship. So I always would come on for them to do premarital. Again, I repeat the word humbleness because a lot of our young men and women, they're excited about the wedding day more than anything else.

Nye Armstrong: 4:17

It's more of a status symbol than it is actually. It's a social thing. Join, uh, joining of a union.

Yaser Birjas: 4:22

A lot of people focus in on the theme of the wedding, the colors deaf. The menu who comes with doesn't come, the photographers or this and that. And so and so, which is beautiful. I'm not saying this is wrong or this Harem, but we're not really focusing on what comes next. Yeah. This is going to be for one or two or three days and then few weeks, you know, and then we're going to put everything on the side of the site, longer a party. It is absolutely, it's going to be the new thing right now. So people that need to prepare themselves for the real thing ahead of time. And I hope that this will, uh, will give them at least an idea on what to do to look for when they move forward in the relationship. And I've seen a lot of my clients want a lot of my students who I met later on in my life and they say, you know what? I appreciate, you know, this class. I appreciate this, this experience. I appreciate the counselor you did for us. I mean, a lot of people benefit from that. I'm glad and happy that it's working.

Nye Armstrong: 5:08

Yeah. So the Alma group class that sort of focuses on premarital would be love notes.

Yaser Birjas: 5:14

More like love notes. Yes. I actually love notes as two parts. One is premarital on and also maintenance. Yeah. So the first part of it is helping people, you know, getting married what they should be looking for and how to look up about it and what to do and this and that. And the other side is, is actually wouldn't once you get married, softer issues, how to deal with these issues. I mean, a lot of people, they think that marriage is a, uh, it ends with the title of course. And they lived happily ever after. But that's not true. There's a lot of up and down on their own and know that you lived happily ever after 40 years later. That's when you look back and just like, wow, what a journey we had all the ups and downs and difficulties, you know, becomes part of the journey. Yeah. And that's some people they need to expect so they can always be prepared to issues instead of, you know, just quitting so quickly.

Nye Armstrong: 5:59

Yeah. I remember when I took it, I was in the middle of my separation process from a divert divorce. It was really, it was a really interesting time to take that class because you listed off of what 12 red flags and I was only missing do. I was like, Oh, I wish, I really wish I took this class and had this knowledge or even just this perspective and not just like stubbornly marching when the entire universe is telling me, stop. Yeah. But a hundred, a hundred, uh, it all worked out for the best. Um, now for like newlyweds in sort of, uh, the struggle of the marriage and getting into sort of the nitty gritty of a union. You said before empathy, like is that something you talked about when you're in Bosnia, how you learned humility and also empathy? Is that something that you have to cultivate constantly and yourself?

Yaser Birjas: 7:03

Absolutely. I mean that's even the recommendation and advice with the Prophet Muhammad himself when he said[inaudible] [inaudible] he says, the best amongst you are, those are the best of their families. It means wine. And I am my bed. I'm at the best of my family. So basically says, look at my example and see for yourself[inaudible] the example of the profits all align Salaam peace be upon him. He was always there, you know, helping his family. You're taking care of things for them. Like I shot his wife used to say when does around the house, he takes care of things for us. He does the chores around the house as well. And he's the messenger, the busiest man on earth. The, the, the, the one who's supposed to be focusing on the entire world. But that doesn't mean he can not going to have few minutes just to take care of things for his family. She said he would even take care of his own clothes. He would, uh, fix his shoe if, if, if it breaks or something. He would even sometimes help with the food. Like for example, he would milk the goat for them. And that's the Messenger. So you can imagine he's actually, he is helping around the house. When I teach my classes, uh, love notes class and I, I'm in the survey we asked women what do they need the most from their husbands? The number one thing, always the number one thing is actually actual service.[inaudible] they want someone who is spontaneously, you know, can help without being told because he cares. And that's something you could see it in the life of the Prophet Mohammed. Peace be upon him. So when we see the Prophet Muhammad himself, he was that it is the main characteristic for husband, wife. If they want to maintain a healthy delicious, you have to care about each other. It's not just about loving each other, but also caring for each other. It's in the Koran. And then the chapter room, sort of the room, uh, verse 32 lots of panels that says, um, women[inaudible] among his science is this, that he had created for you four months yourself, your spouse, for what reason? To find peace and tranquility with each. But then a lot of people were mad. They say, I don't find friends, peace and tranquility with my spouse. I said, yeah, because you forgetting about the ingredients that will bring you that. The neck, the I continued and says, well, John[inaudible] place between your hearts, love and mercy, passion and compassion. You see a lot of people, especially in our time, they focus on the passion part, the romance, the sunsets, you know, the, the beautiful days and nights and all that stuff on. So they feel good about the compassion. Right. And that's why the selfishness kicks in with compassion. We balanced things, even though I need something for myself, but I still care about you and I keep that compassion. Yeah. So that's when we went, when you, when you sympathize and empathize and you know, you put yourself in the shoes of your spouse and you understand their point of view. Yeah, she's upset. Yeah, he's upset, but you know what? Maybe I rung them. Maybe it was my fault. You know what? It's my, it's her fault anyway, but still, I'm going to say I apologize because I like to fix things for her and eventually a few of you always think that way everything's going to fall into, into the right place. One of the things people come to, uh, you know when they come for counseling and they asked him what exactly they are looking for, the common thing they say, I want to know what is my ride, what is my obligation? I said, frankly, it's the easy thing for me to tell you, but it's not going to solve the problem. So what do you mean? I said, listen, a lot didn't say he plays between them rights and obligations. He said he plays between them, love and mercy. So if you work on your love and your mercy rights and obligations, we'll find the right place no matter what. People start fighting and arguing over rights and obligations when they start, you know, running out of love and mercy for each other. Right? So I said, let's recalibrate. Let's not talk too much about what I need to do, what I did to give as much as, let's talk about loving each other and having mercy for another. One way of doing that is to, uh, holding yourself to a high standard of character, which is really, it's the ultimate goal of everything. No matter what, whether you're dealing with your spouse, with your child, with your parents, would have friends with the flow, with whatever. If you maintain a high standard of character, then you will find compassion somewhere and you'll find love at some point.

Nye Armstrong: 11:14

Is there ever a point when you have two people and there's no going back there, there, there's only like when they get to that line, is there a line that is crossed where you're like, plus this, this relationship should be finished or can you always bring it back with work?

Yaser Birjas: 11:35

Well, I, I, I've seen people come into my office with divorce papers and now they have an extra child. Uh, I've seen that they bought a house and they have other, you know, things they moved into the life and so on. So humbling. It works.[inaudible] counseling work, really helping people with work and, and uh, I've seen it, but I also, I've seen in some other scenarios where I could press personally predict that it's not going to go anywhere. Um, I don't, I don't really recommend for people to throw the towel. I keep telling people from the very beginning that I'm not here to tell you to go for divorce. I'm here to try to fix your marriage.

Nye Armstrong: 12:09

You, you have pretty uncanny ability because I've talked to you about certain situations and you're, and never put anybody's name to anything. Uh, and you predicted everything. And I was just like, my God, this is insane. Um, but yeah, it's, it has to be, you just keep seeing patterns over and repeating and just see the signs and that kind of thing.

Yaser Birjas: 12:34

I've been, I've been doing this for past 20 years. Yeah. Uh, it becomes more like a blink, which means you can tell there's, in the circumstances, you can predict that you see the number one thing I believe that causes people to lose. Of course, you know, uh, interest in the relationship. Is there an ability or undesirability to, uh, um, uh, to compromise to the next level? Right. Uh, there's always, we always put four hours of a cab and you say this is it.

Nye Armstrong: 13:04

Like I've done this one too many times.

Yaser Birjas: 13:06

Exactly. So I would say, how about we do with one extra time? So if they, if we can break that line and go for an extra mile, I got into, things can be better. But when people come and that's it, they just know we're done. I can't do anything no more. It's hard really to convince people, uh, if they decided that they're not going to try it. Yeah.

Nye Armstrong: 13:27

Well I have a question and this is sort of sort of me coming from my experiences. I would, during my marriage, I would look read into books and I would read, but my husband zero effort would, I don't want to see zero. I've heard, cause that's, it's just from my perspective. Um, cause there's two sides to every coin. Right. Uh, but he refused to go to counseling. He refused to read any, any of the things that I would, when you have somebody that's super active and then somebody that has no interest in, only wants to stay, whatever is broken, just stay that course. Is there any way that one person can sort of like infiltrate that and actually get them to become more active in that process? Frankly,

Yaser Birjas: 14:15

it's going to be um, survival, survival relationship. That's it. Yeah. Meaning, um, if a person, the other party is not interested at all to do anything, it wasn't much of it can be done about it. Then you compromise to a certain level. Like you, you'd use the relationship to a third certain threshold that you feel not necessarily comfortable with, but at least accepting it as a survival like roommates. Very much. You see in[inaudible] mentioned sort of to last panel that speaks about the rotten Haufman valley. I knew she was in la at all done. Uh, so if, uh, if uh, a woman, her husband from her husband rebellion or rejection, uh, what can we do in this situation? So the suggestion that was mentioned[inaudible] there is no harm on them to reach a settlement. What kind of settlement we were talking about that settlement is to reduce the relationship to the minimum while still keeping, you know, married to each other. Why people stay married for many, many reasons. The number one reason for them to stay and accepting such as, um, not so, you know, promising relationship his children. So this is just for the kids. So they want to stay together for the kids until the kids certain reach a certain age and then that's it. That's it. They might separate on a mass move on with their lives. That's the number one reason for people to stay together. Is it healthy? I don't think it's healthy. If the relationship is difficult and bad. Yeah. Sometimes it's healthier for the children, you know, having their parents separated and having them together fighting all the time. Yeah. So, uh, again it depends, but people do have the right to do so. But I usually see if a person is being very stubborn, unwilling to uh, uh, to compromise or even take part of, you know, developing the relationship and sign for me it would be a matter of time. Yeah. Is there any hope for anybody to recalibrate or recover from that? Absolutely. I've seen it. Yeah. I mean I had some cases with some, some uh, ladies, they come on the, I suggested the husband should come because we need to talk to the, to the other parts you as well to get them involved in the conversation. But the lady, she would say impossible. Like one sister, she even, she said on my dead body, even not going to come. There is no way he will come. But he did. He did. Eventually he did. And when I, when I asked why he showed up, he said, well, I don't know what you've been telling her, but I just want you to know that it's working. So I want to see what you've shared with her so I could at least interview part of this. Wow. What a wake up call. It's, it's, it happened and it happened multiple times. You know, a lot of people they have bias against, again, counseling or against the advice from a stranger because they don't want anyone to middle into their personal affairs, which I understand. But I did my best to keep people as comfortable as possible and let them know that, hey listen, this is voluntary, which means anytime time you can quit, it's up to you, but just give me a chance. And I'm glad that they gave me the chance because once they have the first session, a lot of them actually, they continue.

Nye Armstrong: 17:07

Yeah. It really, if you, I can see, cause I know people that have done, um, counseling with you and it just makes a complete difference. Um, it makes a good relationship better and it makes a better relationship the best at. And it's like

Yaser Birjas: 17:26

there's always room for improvement. Exactly. Yeah. You see what I do, I do premarital, uh, you know, for, for couples about to get married. Unfortunately most of those who took premarital with me at you, they're already married because they didn't take it before they got married. And then the moment they got married, just like, oops, what's going on? So let's, let's kind of try to start from the beginning. Yeah. The second thing we do is called marriage coaching. Marriage coaching for couples, or they'd been married for some time, maybe they have kids or not. And now the relationship is going into stagnation. See, the one, the reason why it's going into stagnation because it's just like the water, when the water stops running and just become stagnant, that was start getting bad and become smelly. And then bugs thought, you know, thriving there. And then you imagine what would look like. Yeah. Very, uh, an infestation in the tech space. And then the relationship is the exact same thing. If we stop working on the relationship because we've taken it for granted because I had done my part, or at least, you know what? I'm too busy because I've done this, I'm doing that. That's when the relationship start running into the right direction. And as a result, the started getting infested with all these problems and then starts exploding with all these issues. Yeah. Uh, so for the Wa for the marriage to, to, to become fresh again or refresh the manage, we have to, you know, kind of break that Levy. I let the water run and answer and move on. People put their guards up on high. We have to break that Libyan, that guards, you know, and let the water run so they can become some similar relationship. Just like cycling. Yeah. In order for the bank to stay balanced, you have to continue pedaling[inaudible] once you stop pedaling, you start running on momentum for some time. And then if you continue like this without filling again, because you gain the momentum, you lose balance and fall

Nye Armstrong: 19:07

when people download their problems to you. Do you ever, how do you not keep that within you?[inaudible] how do you just sort of like shook it off and go about your daily life because I'm sure you're privy to a lot of extra baggage of course, that can easily be strapped onto to you.

Yaser Birjas: 19:28

Absolutely. Well, there's something called in psychology called counter transference in which, you know, there's a chance in the possibility for the counselor to stop projecting their clients, you know, cases on themselves and that becomes very dangerous.[inaudible] the law. I came to, to the train myself and also, you know, of course through experience to build an emotional firewall. So you empathize with the people but don't necessarily sympathize, which means you have to care, but not to the extent to get out of your way to, to help them out because they need you still to be solid and they need you to do, they need someone who's sensible, who can maybe bring them to their senses and an emotional situation like that. Um, uh, of course, obviously as much as possible. I don't take things personal and I told to teach people, you know, from the very beginning, if anything goes personal, that's it. We quit. We're done. I'm going to have to refer to somebody else. Right. It has to say the professional we have to pay with. So stay on the, on the course, on the plan on, on, on, you know, the, uh, the suggestion that we, we, we give them, we do. That's how it works usually. And again, I try my best not to take anything personal, but I still have, I invest actually in the relationship that people they bring to me because once they trust me with their relationship, it becomes my duty to do everything I can to help them out. But I separate between helping out that perspective and taking it too much person myself.

Nye Armstrong: 20:50

Yeah. I don't, like with my job, sometimes people would tell me stuff and I can totally understand, empathize, but not sympathize. I think I sympathize too much and then it just becomes in my head and I take it home and I think about it and I'm like, Oh God. So, okay, that's really good advice for me. You have to

Yaser Birjas: 21:08

build the firewall. Otherwise if you run out of energy, really you won't be able to able to handle these issues.

Nye Armstrong: 21:14

Yeah. It likes becomes a succubus.

Yaser Birjas: 21:16

Absolutely. And again, but the same thing that the people, you know, when they come to you, they don't have filtered in that moment. Right. So this throw everything I learned from that and from my, my experience is to try to help them focus. So when they started going and getting off track, I bring them back with questions. Yeah. Okay. What about this? How about this? Can we do this? What do you think of that? Cause I want them to be focused on the issues. I understand that they have to let everything out, but it has to be an action item. We need to know what we can do about that. That's the most important thing for us.

Nye Armstrong: 21:47

Yeah. Yeah. Um, once it's like a lot of the people that go through divorce find life after very difficult and finding their equal equilibrium. Um, I remember when I went through life coaching with you, it was very much finding your stability again. Um, how would you guide somebody that's sort of like fresh from that into sort of a more stable? Um, I remember, I don't remember exactly what you said, but every session that we had, I'd be crying and you and I, then I'd apologize for crying and you go, you're broken vase. What was that? What did, what do you say what it was? Do you remember? No, I don't remember. And you were like, ego. You go every time, every time you try to fill a broken vase, it's going to leak and you're just, you're just leaking right out. Yeah. But I was just like, oh, okay. That makes sense. I guess.

Yaser Birjas: 22:52

Well, here's the things. Hello. I learned that from the pollen as well. I'm from the practice of the profits, you know, uh, that the number one thing that causes us to feel any anxiety and go through a panic attacks and all that stuff and so on, regardless of the circumstance, whether it's a divorce case or a loss of a loved one or anything of that matter, the number one reason for that is honestly, is expectation because we expect I will have to be perfect. Yeah. Now, as Muslims, I believe that perfection was not meant for this life. Right. It's a reward to be given in the hereafter in the most perfect place. Paradise. So people, their biggest issue is expecting perfection in the imperfect world. And as a result, when things go wrong, they just be surprised.[inaudible] I'm in, come on. The Koran is an open book exam. I lots of panel at that. It says in the Koran that he will test you. He's not testing it because you're bad. He's testing you because he says you're going to test everybody. Right. And when he tested with something difficult, it doesn't mean he hate you. It just like he said, I'm going to test you. What? Good and bad. Yeah. So basically we get surprised when we are tested. Although the exam is being, you know, displayed on the Koran for the past 1400 years. But people still feel surprised. But why me? I'm the religious person. I'm the good guy. I'm the descent. Well, why not? That's the question. So just because you're good doesn't mean you're not going to be tested. Yeah. So that's one thing we have to understand. The second thing again, the whole idea of perfection. People that strive for perfection in the wrong place. Uh, and one of the ideas of perfection is what I, I've, uh, develop that theory from sort of let the cat or speaking about the different levels of certainty that we're trying to acquire in this world. Everything we do, we are doing it because we want to be certain about it because certain that gives us peace and tranquility that removes uncertainty, that removes and anxiety and all these things. But when we tried to find certainty, we're trying to find it by trying to take control of everything in our life. If I can control everything, at least I'm in charge so I know what things are going to go. So I'll keep things in my hand. Well, it's true. If you keep things in your hand, you are going to feel safer because again, you're just controlling yourself. Like with the other day we were actually in a couple's retreat and one of the sisters, she had to drive up the mountains. She had to drive the car herself. What? Her husband on the side. Why? Because she was so freaking freaking out from the, from the, from the experience said, if I don't drive the car myself, I won't be able to manage up there. Right. So she had to be in control. She was willing to take the risk of driving on that mountain. But because she's the one in control, she feels safer. Similarly in our life, everybody's trying to take control of things. Well, I keep telling people, no matter how much control you, you can keep in your hand, at the end of the day, you're going to be tested. Yeah. So therefore you have to focus on what you can control. And that is the effort. The result is not for you to control. Even if you've done everything by the book, you can get negative results. Not because you did wrong. It's because this is your test. How are you going to react to it? So once again, I tell people, just relax and focus on your effort and let the results to be in the handover. La Xojane accepted, accepted the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. He said that agilely emerald moment kilometer hola. Who Hire the affair of the believers. Always good for them if good son, if something good happens to them, they will be grateful and that's good for the believer. And if something bad happens to them, they'll show patients. And that's also good for the believer. And only a true believer will act like this. So as a true believer, I try my best when there's an atrocity, I show patients when there's a prosperity, I should gratitude. That doesn't guarantee that I'll get what I'm asking for if I do that. Because tests come from all over. Yeah, no.

Nye Armstrong: 26:50

What would you say? What would be the biggest test you've had to face yourself?

Yaser Birjas: 26:57

That's a tough question. I have some of them. Well I have, I have many, but yeah, uh, honestly I, I never made them an obstacle to move forward.[inaudible] I'm in, I just faced things, deal with them and move on, faced then the deal with them and then move on again. I taught myself not to worry about the results, right? Cause this is not my business. I cannot control the results. I can only control the effort that I could make and that's all what I do.

Nye Armstrong: 27:23

So you don't have like something that you struggle internally with on a constant?

Yaser Birjas: 27:28

Oh, I do. I do have, I have so many, I have so many, but I taught myself not to make these obstacles or these apps or these challenges. I will call them challenges. I don't want them to, to uh, um, to ruin my life.

Nye Armstrong: 27:41

Yeah. You don't want them to be your definition.

Yaser Birjas: 27:43

Exactly. I mean, they exist. They can exist in my life and they will continue to this probably, I dunno for how long, but I'm going to have to deal with it very Tai Chi as much as I can. Yeah. I tried. I have to deal with them because again, I don't want these things to hold me back. Yeah. I'll continue to move forward. I keep reminding myself if you are gonna fall always fall forward because when you fold forward, you're still getting two more steps as well when you pick up, you know, from the slide from that. Yeah. That's good. Instead of falling backwards and go back, will not. I will fall forward and keep moving all the time. I do my best.