Ep 81 Born of Water and the Spirit: The Reality of Transformation with Set Free Church

"How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’  John 3:4-5

Have you ever witnessed a profound change in someone's life, a transformation that transcends the physical to impact the very soul? Join Pastor Nick and Nathan from Set Free Church with my wife Selena and I, Imran, as we explore the powerful journey of spiritual rebirth. Our latest episode takes you into the heart of true discipleship, where the fringes of society find hope and a new path forward in faith. Experience the raw and candid stories about those who have battled addiction and homelessness, and discover the church's mission to renew spirits and guide individuals toward a life dedicated to God's glory.

The conversation with Nicodemus and Jesus offers a foundational pillar for understanding what it means to be 'born again' in the Christian faith. Our discussion ventures into the depths of this dialogue. We examine the context behind John 3:16 and delve into the lives of biblical figures, like Nicodemus, to comprehend the profound implications of spiritual rebirth that goes beyond mere ritual or practice. This episode stands as a call to action, inviting a reflection on the necessity of a genuine rebirth in Christ.

The episode culminates with an exploration of the eternal promises that define a spiritually reborn life, guiding you through scriptural passages that shed light on our place in heaven and the sanctification process. We share personal testimonies and the compelling narrative of Ezekiel, encouraging you to embrace the unseen workings of the Holy Spirit and live a life marked by humility and the pursuit of God. This transformative journey through the narratives of scripture is not just an invitation to listen, but to engage with the deeper meanings that enrich our faith and understanding.

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Transcript

Imran: 0:04

Hello and welcome to Real Bible Stories. Join us as we deep dive into the historic, religious, cultural, political and emotional context surrounding the real lives of real people in the Bible and the stories we've all grown to love. Hello and welcome back to Real Bible Stories. So we've got a real treat for you all. We've got Pastor Nick and Nathan from Set Free Church in Wonder Valley here with us today, and so, before we even get into it, I actually have to make sure I say hey to my wife over here, selena.

Selena: 0:44

Hey.

Imran: 0:45

And then I do want to get you know all the chance to say hey. So Pastor Nick say hey, hey, and Nathan say hey, hello, hey. So welcome to Real Bible Stories. If this is your first time tuning in, this is going to be a deep Bible study, a lot more than just the surface level that you get. Not surface level, but like what you can really fit into a typical sermon. This long form Bible study just gives us a chance to really dive much deeper into the word and really pull out some of the nuance and wonder that that's definitely in the scripture, but again, you just can't really fit it into yeah you just can't fit it into a normal Sunday morning.

Imran: 1:18

So, pastor, nick and Nathan, they're coming from one of the most unique churches I've ever been to and ever been a part of, and so thankful to be able to go to and be a part of Set Free Church in Wonder Valley. Can you explain what Set Free is and what the mission is of that church?

Pastor Nick: 1:36

So Set Free Church to me is and not just to me, but what I was taught, and it is a living organism really. I mean of new believers, of backsliders, of people that are just on the highways and the byways of life and that God has a calling on their life. And every pastor I know that is a pastor of a Set Free Church has came from some kind of dark background and history of being part of the world, being part of the old man in a very intense way. And so Set Free Church is a church first, and we were evangelistic. We want to get the gospel out, the good news out Jesus to the streets, and. But we have a lot of different ministries underneath the church.

Pastor Nick: 2:38

And I would have to say one of our biggest ministries underneath the church is the discipleship ministry and that that is actually what feeds the church. The Jesus said that you know, the harvest is plentiful but the labors are few. You know, and I believe, that our harvest comes from the discipleship the future pastors, the future worship leaders, the future, the future of other churches, not just Set Free Churches but other churches, you know. And so the discipleship is where other churches get planted from and how we how we do the discipleship? Is we outreach, outreach?

Selena: 3:26

outreach, outreach.

Pastor Nick: 3:28

And our target, really our target is addicts, alcoholics, homeless people that are full of themselves, people that are full of work, workaholics that have have worked theirself to a point of losing their wife, their children, gamblers. You know all the people that did. I believe Jesus would have sat with, yeah, the center. You know what I mean.

Imran: 3:54

I want to just describe like, because I think that the look of of you two gentlemen, is just also one of the most incredible realities.

Imran: 4:02

That shows kind of your faith journey just in how you carry yourself. Because so we record this podcast out on the base and on the Marine Corps base here in 29 Palms. And as I was coming off base you see these gentlemen rolling up in their blacked out Harley Davidson huge bikes parked up right next to the gate, in there in there in their all black garb and their and their motorcycle jackets. But so on the surface you may look out, and I'm sure the gate guards that were there were like oh no, what is coming up to the gate right?

Selena: 4:32

now.

Imran: 4:32

Right, they've got tattoos and all this and so it's like a look. But if you look closer you can see Jesus and everything about how they look. If you look at their their jackets that they're wearing, it says set free church. On it it says one pastor you know on your jacket.

Selena: 4:49

Jesus first.

Imran: 4:51

Jesus first on it, and so it's like, if you, at a glance you might be like oh, those are, so it's the biker crew. These guys are up to no good, blah, blah, blah. But if you, if you, if you look for longer than a second, you'll see that. Wait a minute, these guys are different.

Imran: 5:09

These guys are unique, right, and it's the same way I feel about about some Marines is like Marines, we wear the same uniform, we all try to look as uniform as possible, but when a Marine opens their mouth, like, you can tell different Marines apart from each other, right?

Imran: 5:26

Those that came from like a pretty good background really are drinking the Kool-Aid and those that are being like really combative and rebellious against the organization.

Imran: 5:33

And you can also usually tell those that are faithful, apart from those that are doing whatever they want, right? So even though that surface look is there, if you look a little bit deeper you can, you can pull a lot out of it, and so I think set free church is such an awesome church because of how you said, your mission is to go to the alcoholics or drug addicts, stuff like that. I feel like palms Baptist church might be a little too prim and proper sometimes be able to go out and talk to those people and even myself, like I don't know how to go out and talk to those people, but those people, some of them, are a part of the kingdom and are already one to the kingdom and the commission tells us to go out and minister them and to serve them and to bring them in, and a lot of churches, I think, struggle with that, a lot of people who struggle with that, and you'll excel and have perfected that.

Selena: 6:20

Yeah, I mean the community like sees you guys out there, like we'll be just like out and about in our day and then we'll know, like set free was here, I was like that's incredible. Yeah, something else that stands out to me about your church is the passion. It's such raw passion and like just we were there yesterday, wasn't yesterday. Yeah, oh, no, Saturday Saturday with your leaders, just like they are so in love with Jesus, and it pours out from them, and so that's something that I admire about you guys and the church.

Pastor Nick: 7:00

Well, thank you so much. It's so, it's so awesome. Pastor David in the Palms has just been such a big part of what we're doing out here, because it's, you know, he told me. He said just keep doing what you're doing because there's no other churches doing what you're doing. Absolutely, you know, and just to have his support, because he's been here for a long time and I feel like Pastor David has been in here for like 25 years probably.

Pastor Nick: 7:27

Yeah, there's a few veterans, veteran pastors in this town, and Pastor David's one of them, and so to have and to have him and to be partnered with, and just that you guys are a sister church and I feel that you know, and it's just, it's beautiful thing. It's such a beautiful thing because our guys when they go into the Palms church they feel right at home.

Pastor Nick: 7:51

And they, you know, and some other. Some other members might be like what the heck's going on? Cause our guys are loud and they got that passion and there's just.

Imran: 8:00

I don't think a single member is like what the heck's going?

Selena: 8:04

on. They're like oh, thank goodness Someone brought the real Baptist in and we can actually start worshiping God correctly.

Pastor Nick: 8:10

You know, and so yeah, man, and so, like getting back to the discipleship, it's, it's set up as a. The first phase is just meeting Jesus. Yeah, you know the first phase, and yeah, cause you literally pull them into the community.

Imran: 8:25

You've got the ranch now, yeah, you literally will find people that are in these dire straits and and and minister to them and then bring them in and actually help like detox them and get them on the right track. Come home.

Pastor Nick: 8:37

Come home. See that that's. That's the part, too, that you know we have an advantage. God gave us an advantage that other churches don't have. As far as hey, come home, we make sure that we have a place to bring them, and, and. But the other churches do have that. Once we get connected with other churches now, the ranch is theirs too. Come home, let's. I got a place that we could go, where you could get away from all this. Yeah, you know, and, and, and. I think that is cause some people are so. They have, they've tried everything, they've done everything and and, and. But to say, hey, you, we got a place you can go. Come home with us.

Imran: 9:15

Yeah, yeah, you don't have to go back to that life, to that lifestyle, yeah.

Pastor Nick: 9:18

And Vegas do an outreach in Vegas. That's a little tricky cause. You pull up on people out there and say come home, and you're in a white van.

Selena: 9:24

It's, it's, it's it got scary out there, I got people actually thinking I was trying to traffic them and stuff.

Pastor Nick: 9:30

You know there's vans like this coming around all the time stealing people. Oh my gosh, you know cause? I was supposed to plant set free Las Vegas for when I was in Needles, so I was out there two years just hitting it hard in Vegas.

Selena: 9:42

Yeah.

Pastor Nick: 9:43

And and it's, it's. It's a beast out there. It is a beast, but God, god, brought us out here and I'm so thankful for it.

Selena: 9:48

But there's a lot of need out here, yeah.

Pastor Nick: 9:51

Absolutely, and I couldn't believe it. You know I I God brought us to the middle of nowhere, but everything he's done in these two years has just blown my mind.

Imran: 9:59

You know, I blown my mind and so, yeah, that first, the first initial phase of meeting Jesus is is our, is our grand goal of getting people the gospel and actually I think that that is the perfect time to what we're going to be going into night, which is that that rebirth, of being rebirth into your faith yeah, because, the thing about it is that people got to be discipled.

Nathan: 10:22

Yeah, they have to be discipled. They can't just be okay, I accept you, jesus, and then walk away and try to work on it and work out their salvation on their own, on their own Cause the world will poo them in all sorts of different directions. Yeah, it does, and so our church and many other churches. They have to be discipled. They have to be discipled, they have to be taught. Jesus, for our church is 24, seven for these guys, you know it's, it's um, something that has to be driven home. It really does.

Imran: 10:54

It's one of the uh, I think one of the hardest things for, like, bigger churches, like mega church type stuff. Uh, cause it's it in my eyes, it's not that you got someone to the baptist and it's like, what are you doing, like post baptism, yes, what are you doing to help minister and develop that person and help get them out of whatever they are running they are running from to try and run towards Christ, cause that you need to have the resources there to actually be able to do that. So, if you're just worried about the production and inspiring people to, um, the point of revelation, um, the revelation is just the first step that you still have, well, the rest of your life. So I think that perfect time, though, to get into our text for the day.

Pastor Nick: 11:35

Yeah, and you said something that was profound a little while ago about what we were going to be, that we're going to be talking about, and it's the outside, looking on the outside of people, and then you don't really know until the Marines start to speak or until we start to say something. It's that, it's that. It's just like the wind.

Selena: 11:56

You know when the wind blows, you don't see the wind yeah, but you see the tree movie and you see, you know what I mean and we're going to be going deeper into that.

Pastor Nick: 12:04

But it was just nice that you said that, because it really ties in.

Imran: 12:09

So you want to start with the scripture, you want to start with an opening, uh, opening kind of explanation about what we're going to hit.

Nathan: 12:16

Yeah, you, you want to. Yeah, I'll talk about it real quick. Um, so, just to kind of pack it into a short thing, is that, um, nicodemus comes to Jesus in the middle of the night and he meets him and this question is asked to Jesus and Nicodemus gets a response that he wasn't expecting, you know. He gets a response that would uh, for a lot of people would have turned them away and, uh, the end result made it to where he was frustrated and to the point of wait. What are you talking about? Everything I know is the opposite of this. So it's. The meaning of it is that we, we have to understand what Jesus is telling us when he tells us that we have to be born again, that we have to be able to see God, we have to be born again, and then that born again is not just a okay, like you were explaining, not just, uh, accept, I go to the baptismal, and, and then I walk, I walk away and it's just easy.

Imran: 13:18

And then it's just easy. No, the real battle begins.

Nathan: 13:21

Yes, and and, and. So that's what we're going to talk about, and and really try to go into and see what Jesus was saying when he said that to Nicodemus okay, I think with that we can start off with our target text all right, so we're going to be going over John 3, verses 1 through 21 yeah

Selena: 13:39

now. There was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus, who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from from God, for no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him. Jesus replied very truly. I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. How can someone be born again when they are old? Nicodemus asked surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother's womb to be born? Jesus answered very truly. I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the spirit. Flesh give birth, flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to spirit.

Selena: 14:31

You should not be surprised at my saying you must be born again. The wind blows wherever it pleases, you hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the spirit. How can this be? Nicodemus asked you are Israel's teacher, said Jesus. And do you not understand these things?

Selena: 14:56

Very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know and we testify to what we have seen. But you, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe. How then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

Selena: 15:18

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the son of man.

Selena: 15:24

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the man, so the son of man, must be lifted up that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only son. This is the verdict light light has come into the world, but people love darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

Imran: 16:40

I love that. I love that the one of the most quoted scriptures, john 3 16, is in this conversation and I did not know before we started that it was a conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus.

Selena: 16:54

I was today years old yeah it's and it's.

Imran: 16:58

There's always these crazy moments when we do the podcast, where, like something that that should be known is revealed to me and I'm just like, why, why, why was that never made clear to me? Back back back when I learned this the first time? You know, but you know when you're a kid that's like the one of the first scriptures they teach you. Yeah, yeah, they don't teach you the context behind it, but now we're gonna get the context, yeah yeah, the scriptures everywhere.

Pastor Nick: 17:19

I mean it's on the bottom of your french fries, it in and out. You know what?

Imran: 17:22

I mean yeah, jr ii and, and so but it's people I in and out right now listening to the podcast yeah, what, what surprise so let's start, I guess, by uh getting into who Nicodemus was, you know, okay, because I think that's important to know.

Nathan: 17:45

Um, nicodemus is the first time that Nicodemus is mentioned. It's the only gospel he's mentioned in a lot of. There's really not a lot to back up who Nicodemus was, you know. All there is to back up who Nicodemus was was that he was a ruler of the jews. He was, so he had to have been a part of the sanhedrin. You mean okay, which was a council. It was pretty much like the supreme court, the great law of the land. Um, he would, they there was. It was made up of 70 70.

Imran: 18:15

Yes, most of them were Sadducees, so it's more like a senate, like, yes, like that level of scope scale, yeah, and there was uh in in little regions.

Nathan: 18:24

There was little worse sanhedrin, the lesser sanhedrin they were called, but this was the, the main sanhedrin. Most of them were Sadducees, but the minority of them were Pharisees. So Nicodemus was part of this elite rule making law like they kind of there.

Imran: 18:45

It was their job to interpret the scripture for the people right and everything. Yeah political.

Pastor Nick: 18:49

It was the political, it was the spiritual. Yeah, this is. They took all the cases, everything that had happened between the, the religious and and even Rome. Rome relied on the, the ruling court, they relied on the sanhedrin, rome, to keep order, you know, and and so they were. They were hand in hand with Rome, okay, you know, and to make sure that things were in order and and so this is like like he was saying the supreme court, yeah, where all the stuff's being handled, it's at the sanhedrin, you know what.

Pastor Nick: 19:22

I mean, and and if the fact that that Nicodemus is even in there is because most of these guys were Sadducees, were well, way more wealthy than Pharisees. And and the fact that Nicodemus is in there, out of what was it? Six thousand, there was about six thousand Pharisees at that time, oh my goodness. And and the fact that Nicodemus had made it into the sanhedrin is showing that he's, you know, he's real, prominent yes testament to either his financial success or his mental aptitude, and even his schooling and and exactly what we know.

Pastor Nick: 19:58

Some of the last podcasts you guys have done have really touched, especially the last one, yeah, on the significant schooling that, yeah, and he's been, he's one of the elite, he's one of the elite ones and and he should yeah, yeah, and he has.

Nathan: 20:13

He has students underneath him, you know, the disciples yes, he has students underneath him that he is teaching. So for him to meet with Jesus like this and start asking questions. Just, it goes to show that Jesus is a greater force. I'm drawing him in, you know, but they you're, you're correct on that. That was the oral law yeah you know, as Moses went up and got the 10 commandments, um, they, they made sure this supreme court, this sanhedrin, made sure that the oral law was being followed yeah you know, they were they, no matter what they had to do to get fall, get followed.

Nathan: 20:51

Yeah, yeah, and that's the sad part of it, but they, they weren't. They were real cleaned up. They were real cleaned up and they thought at what they're doing at the time before. We gotta remember Jesus has not really revealed himself in the way of the Messiah.

Pastor Nick: 21:07

Yeah, so they, they're thinking everything they're doing is is how it needs to be done yeah, jesus was like a huge rebel yeah, for today, establishment yes, and it's it's crazy too, because you know at that time how, how we were just talking about a moment ago, how from the outside you know, we don't really look the part of a Christian and and with the Marines, you know, you, just, you, just you don't know all the same you don't know to the open the mouth, but back then you knew from the outside, yeah they didn't.

Pastor Nick: 21:38

It was better if they just were quiet. You know what I mean? Because they were the religious people and they had everything to show that they were the rabbis, exactly, and so it's. It's just that I was.

Imran: 21:49

I think it's interesting because it says that he met with him at night but, like now, having the context of the last couple episodes, it's like yeah, he might have met with him at night, but I doubt he met with him at night alone. Like I'm sure Nicodemus had some of his disciples with him and some of the disciples were with Jesus and so, like you have all like this, the scripture obviously wasn't written by either of them, so it was those disciples that were there hearing this, that, that, that noted all this down you know, yeah, and then this scripture at the time.

Nathan: 22:14

This we got to remember that not many of the major miracles that we've read about in the gospels were done at this time. The only one that has been done at this time was the water and to wine oh, this is very early.

Imran: 22:29

This is very early means it's very early.

Nathan: 22:32

And then also, when he goes into the temple and they're, they're selling doves and they're doing all this, and he flips the tables and he said how dare you turn my, my father's house into a den of thieves, you know? And then he says I'm going to destroy the temple yeah you know, and all the Sadducees and Pharisees are around at this time and they're listening to what he's saying and and at that he's he's telling them look, I can, I can rebuild in three days you know.

Nathan: 23:02

And then the Sadducees and Pharisees also ask him look well, what other miracles can you do, right, to prove this? You know, and Nicodemus had to be around at that time yeah he was. It was a part of the ruling council, so he had to be a part around at that time.

Nathan: 23:18

He's not mentioned at that yeah but then later on, he and yes, it's written by John. So, john, this is like the later gospel. You know um, one of the later ones, um. So he meets him at night and it doesn't really give us much information, like if his, his students were with them. If they were not, we're kind of left in between a line of even a testament, that he went at night.

Imran: 23:39

Yes, he may have had some disciples with him, but he didn't want, like the common folk, to see he's exactly here going out.

Pastor Nick: 23:47

He has some, he has some meeting with the rebel. You know, he has some type of of there's. He wants to interrogate Jesus, but he sees what's happening. Obviously, from the beginning he said that he was sent from God. Right, he said we know that you're sent from God or that you're of God. You know, we know, and, and further on, we know that Jesus is God. Yeah, so, and he should have known that through all the scriptures also. But he's so, there's some type. So, whatever it was, whether and but. Also rabbis, they backed in. They would go after the day was over, because, just, we know our days are busy, whether if our students take it all up or if the, you know, the church or our jobs yeah, but that's exactly how it was backed in.

Pastor Nick: 24:39

All day long they were busy. Rabbis was were busy, yeah, with things they had to get done. So at night is when they would go and talk with their disciples and they would go fellowship and they would go and sit down and talk about the deeper things. That's good. Okay, that would it had it take place. After all, the duties were done of the day that they would have a little time to go let's go check some things out.

Pastor Nick: 25:02

Time for their self. So that could have been it, or it could have been that he was trying to hide it from everybody else, that he was going to talk to the guy that just came up in the temple and flipped all the tables yeah you know, because he there.

Pastor Nick: 25:16

It could have been a couple different things it doesn't specifically say, but it's profound to me that at the end of the scriptures, around verse 2021, it starts talking about light and darkness. Yeah, starts talking about day and night. You know, and, and and. People refused that. They're in the, they walk in the darkness, they walk in the night, they refuse to come to the light yeah so it's kind of like almost like he's rebuking him at the end.

Imran: 25:39

Yeah, you know it's like you come here at night. Ask me these questions when you could have come in the day and we could have all learned.

Nathan: 25:44

Yeah, so, and and it wasn't only just the sanhedrin he was scared of, of them finding out, if that be the case, about him meeting with Jesus um, he was a real influential man you know his name meant um victory of the people, so he had admiration among all people. They looked at this man as a teacher, a great teacher great real.

Imran: 26:09

Israel teacher Jesus he thinks is refers to as his rose teacher.

Nathan: 26:13

Yeah, so he's gonna start losing his students he has a lot to lose. He has a lot to lose if this man is really the messiah yeah if this man has really been sent from God. There's a lot of things in question there. If it was a sanhedrin he's scared of, if it's him losing his student and there's so many things that he has to lose in this but he's not willing to forfeit what he knows yeah, absolutely so we're gonna read I'm gonna go to, let's see.

Nathan: 26:53

So we gotta. We're gonna go to the part where it's talking about born again now um, I want to, I want to mention a few more things here.

Pastor Nick: 27:01

Um, okay, that we, we for kind of didn't mention. I I want to that we see here in the beginning that nicodemus wanted to frame this conversation. He wanted to kind of question Jesus. Yeah, you know, but as we're we're going into Jesus totally flipped, flipped the script on him. Yeah, you know, and this was his moment, he planned it out, he was going to meet Jesus at night, he was going to frame the conversation and he was gonna. He's the theological man here, you know, and there's no uh rabbi above him.

Pastor Nick: 27:38

He is the rabbi rabbis you know, what I mean, and to go and, and, and it's just, it's crazy how he was. He was, he wanted to guide the questions, but in the first sentence jesus spoke and he, he seized the. It seems that he seized it all yeah, there's no and and and he was just nicodemus. I could just picture him at night like scratching his head, like be wielded, yeah, be wielded at his his statement here, and, and this is the statement that we're going into our and there's a point it's.

Nathan: 28:12

It's kind of sad. It is because I wouldn't be troubled if I found out that everything I've learned and known is not the way to do it, if jesus were to come back in another way than I know him and I know he's not going to.

Nathan: 28:27

But if just to go that direction in a few seconds, for a few seconds, if I was taught something completely different of how it's supposed to be and jesus met me face to face and I didn't understand what he was saying, I would be troubled. It's it's. It's sad for nicodemus that he's learned something his whole life and he's lived by these because he has been following the law yeah, but it has been then you have the, the Torah law, and then you have all the oral law and all the additional was 613

Nathan: 28:58

I think, 613 additional laws that he's been, you know, teaching, following, following, and even though his appearance outside, inside is there's a dirty rag. You know, we know that, and we know what jesus also said to about the Pharisees and Sadducees. You know, but he can't understand. He's so stuck in his, his understanding of what he thought it was and not to say that it's not the, the law, but jesus saying look it's, you have to, you have to be born again, you, your whole way. It's not enough just to change your moral behavior yeah, it's not enough to die, it's not enough to change your personality.

Nathan: 29:39

It's not enough to change your rules. It's not enough to change who you're around. It's not enough to become a rabbi. It's not enough to become a pastor you have to be born again yeah. And that whole concept of being born again is, I think, in our generation, and many generations is taken so lightly. It's taken lightly because we don't take the time to explain to our fellow brothers and sisters what that means and what that looks like.

Imran: 30:05

I think we fail to really explain what God's really demanding. It's not a little bit of you or some of your time, or just go ahead and pray, or just come to church on Sunday or just give your tithe.

Pastor Nick: 30:17

No, he demands your entire life and how you approach everything the world and schools and social media and everything I mean everything. It conditions people to think that they were raised this way, that this is how it is and I was just raised that way, or these things that as growing up that you're kind of made to believe that this is who you are, so be the best at who you are and what Jesus is saying. No, you have to totally get rid of that and be born again.

Imran: 30:52

Yeah.

Pastor Nick: 30:54

It still kind of sounds crazy to me. Yeah, yeah, it's supposed to yeah, because it's supernatural.

Nathan: 31:02

It's not supposed to be something natural, it's supposed to be something born anew, is born above, born from heaven, Born again, born anew. That's we have to become. We have to become new from day one, baby, infant, and we have to become that. And so and he pops this question to Nicodemus you have to be born again, and then he says how can you come out of a how? How's that?

Imran: 31:34

possible. You completely derailed everything that Nicodemus came up there. He's like wait a second. What do you mean?

Pastor Nick: 31:39

born again, yeah yeah, and it's like I don't wanna sit here and say that shame on Nicodemus, shame on him. He should have understood.

Imran: 31:52

I feel like it's a perfectly rational line of questioning to be like what do you mean born again? Cause I think even today, if you said that to a non-believer, their first response is gonna be like what do you mean born again? I don't think that's a thing, man.

Nathan: 32:08

Yeah, and the sad part is that in science class you can say that too, sometimes a lot of church members. You know the actual, true meaning of being born again.

Imran: 32:16

Yeah, turn around, come out of your way and then go in the opposite direction, head towards Christ and stop trying to do life your own way.

Nathan: 32:22

And we've talked about this and I love that we're coming to this tonight, because the church has failed in a lot of times in this and just trying to bring people, bring people fill seats and give them a show, a spectacle, itching ears, and we've tried to even to our youth. You know, let's go to these concerts and these moving stuff and we wanna entertain them, you know, but it's like no, we need to teach them repentance. We need to build their foundation on Jesus, on Christ, I mean and let them know what born again really means and how it has to be that way or they'll fall away, cause the statistics just show that people that are falling away left and right, and it's we fell on that they don't understand.

Imran: 33:08

They fell in love with the show and not in love with Christ. They fell in love with the smoke machine and the lights and not with Christ. They felt inspired by the music, not by the Holy.

Selena: 33:16

Spirit.

Imran: 33:17

So you have to be very, as a church, very cognizant and very careful with God's children. You've been given that special trust and confidence to disciple them, not to inspire them. The word's inspiring enough.

Pastor Nick: 33:31

Yeah, you know. So at the same time, here we're looking at someone that knew he knew the word from everything up to Matthew, everything up to the New Testament. This guy should know, you know. And so we're looking at not just know but memorize. Not just memorize but also teaching. We don't even know how many guys he had under him, how many disciples, how many people that were under him that he was teaching the word to.

Pastor Nick: 34:01

And so this was burned into him. It should have been burned into his memory and everything. And then so we have this guy that should have known, but then we also have this guy that, at this time, he's one of the first people that Jesus is calling out and saying look, I'm about to turn your world upside down.

Pastor Nick: 34:17

Yeah, I'm about to turn your thinking and what you're doing upside down. So you look at, on one side of it it's like gosh, he should have known. But on the other side it's like man, he was the first guy that he kind of he flipped the tables, he did these, he changed water and wine.

Imran: 34:31

Yeah, cause it happened so early in his history.

Pastor Nick: 34:33

This is the third chapter, you know, and it's like third chapter of John, and so you gotta give the guys some credit. But at the same time we gotta be aware that if we're practicing these things, if we're memorizing verses, and if we're looking into this and we wanna teach other people underneath us, we gotta make sure that it's a heart condition and not a head condition.

Nathan: 34:55

I like that, yeah, and it's important to know that Jesus, always when he's meeting with someone, he's talking to them in the way that they'll understand, like Peter and Simon, the miracle was the fish. The miracle was the fish that they drew in, you know, cast your net to the other side. And he's talking to Nicodemus in something he'll understand when he says you have to be born again, you know, and he, nicodemus, should have realized what he was talking about. He should have, but he was so just taken over by self, by self. And that's where I think I was listening to one of the podcasts. And religion is good. You guys are saying religion is good to a if it's done right, you know if it's done right.

Nathan: 35:45

But the religion they were practicing was self. What can I do to make me better? You know?

Imran: 35:52

As long as America, baby, yeah, yeah as long as God, but America's religion.

Nathan: 35:56

What can I do to make me look better? Get more. I'm gonna follow this, this and this.

Imran: 36:01

I'm gonna check it out, you know.

Nathan: 36:02

Yeah, and that's hard to get rid of.

Imran: 36:05

That is a hard thing to get rid of. You're like born into it and conditioned all through school to. You know you got to work hard in school so you can go to the best schools, so you can make as much money as you can, so you can buy whatever you want. You know, and it's a there's no discussion really, unless your school is, you know, like actually deliberately doing that, to really teach you community service, teach you community involvement, teach you to serve others. You know. Yes, it's all focused on just yourself.

Pastor Nick: 36:31

Yeah, pride, and you know we were back last year. We were doing our Bible study, our church Bible study, and I think we were going through Timothy and Titus and all that and looking at the early church and what was going on back then. And you know a lot of people want to say, well, I'm not. I'm not of Jewish descent. You know, and I've heard a lot of people in church, you know I can relate more with the Gentiles. You know I came to God. I was against him and then I came to God. But we're America and the church is sometimes pharistopical, you know.

Selena: 37:10

We could relate with.

Pastor Nick: 37:10

We relate more with the Pharisees sometimes, and people of this world relate a lot with what was happening, and Jesus is in his ministry. That's where he's doing the most correcting yeah is with the church, is with the religious folk, you know, and so it's just something to look at, but I think we should venture into the question.

Nathan: 37:32

Yeah, he says in on Reef. For verse three he says Jesus replied very truly. I told you no one can see the kingdom of God unless they were born again. He uses that born again right there and then he goes a second time once. Nicodemus kind of responds and what we're talking about? How can someone be born when they're old? And Jesus answered very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they're born of water and the spirit.

Pastor Nick: 38:00

So born of water? Yeah, so what comes to your guys' minds when you think born of water?

Selena: 38:08

I was taught to say baptism.

Imran: 38:13

Oh, I was gonna say after birth, like literally, like when someone's born, you guys both did.

Pastor Nick: 38:18

You guys both said the most perfect things you could have said, because for the longest time I would have thought you know, my water broke the water of the baby a natural birth. I also baptism came to mind too, but we're gonna dive deeper into, because those are possibilities. Those are possibilities and those are something that we would think it would be, but there's something much deeper here.

Nathan: 38:45

Yes, given the person his audience. Yes, you have to look at the audience of Jesus right here. Like I was talking earlier, when he's talking to Peter and Simon, he's using fishing analogies. Right, Come with me, I'll make you fishers and men. He's using something they know. When he drew me to him, he used something I knew, just like probably you guys too. He met me personally, you know, and with Nicodemus he's meeting him with something he knows what does.

Pastor Nick: 39:14

Nicodemus know.

Imran: 39:16

He knows the scripture.

Pastor Nick: 39:16

He knows the scripture, so it has to be somewhere in scripture what the water represents, right.

Nathan: 39:23

So we'll talk about first. Let's talk about let's see the baptism. The baptism is. I thought it was baptism too and I thought it. Then I kind of got swayed to the natural birth and then, as I started looking and praying and trying to seek God in it, he showed me that why the one we're gonna talk about makes more sense Because, all right, let's see baptism. If Jesus already said born again, you have to be born again. Never does he say that baptism is thing that makes you born again. Okay, baptism is a thing of sanctification and outward representation of what the change that already happened right.

Imran: 40:14

So it's the thing that triggered the change. Yeah, baptism would come after the born again.

Nathan: 40:18

After the born again, you know, anytime he says go make disciples of all nations, right, baptize him. So the disciple making is first, then the baptism is always secondly. So when he said born again, he puts the water and the spirit into the born again thing. They come together, they have to be those. Two have to be one in order for you to be born again. You know.

Pastor Nick: 40:43

So I'm gonna talk, cause natural was my, that was my when we got dove deep into it and we're praying on it and thinking about it. That was I mean natural birth, the water, you know what I mean. That was my thing and so. But okay, so we're talking about being born again, right? So if we're talking about born again, then it should have nothing to do with our first birth, right? And our first birth. So we've already been naturally born. Yeah, if Jesus is saying you must be born again by water and spirit, if we've already been born by water, why would that even be in the question of being born again? Yeah, that makes sense Because we've already been that. That was our first birth. So he's, by saying born again, he's left our first birth in the past, exactly.

Nathan: 41:26

Yeah, and also at this time, we gotta understand, at this time, the language they used. You know, like right now we wanna say being born of water, right?

Imran: 41:37

Unless you're literally gonna go be in a tub. In a tub, yeah the kiddie pools right, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.

Nathan: 41:44

But neither did they at this time. They didn't say born of water. I mean referring to natural birth. At this time, no Pharisees, sadducees, jew Gentile would say born of water. That wouldn't be like a phrase.

Imran: 42:02

Yeah.

Nathan: 42:02

Nicodemus. One understanding we've seen at that time you know. And then back to the baptism part. The baptism, the baptism, always we know baptism with the Holy Spirit and that's where a lot of people get that kinda. That comes into there.

Nathan: 42:24

But we know the baptism part. It really doesn't save you. Jesus didn't even. The only reason he went to go get baptized is because he had to follow the law completely. That's the only reason it wasn't because, oh, I got saved, I need to go get baptized. You mean, now, I totally agree with baptism, given you're saved, given you were already born again. We had this guy yesterday at our church and he's gotten saved, he's. We prayed with him yesterday and he denounced some Santaria, he denounced Santa morte. He you know, we prayed hard for him anoints him and but he's gonna get baptized next week, you know. So he has to be cleansed first. First, yeah.

Nathan: 43:08

He has to. He's accepted Jesus, he knows he's gonna. He's born anew, he's he's. But he also has to denounce. Before you have outward proclamation, you know, before the baptism, and so that's those two things, the baptism and the born of water, are still a lot of people think they are and they seem to be right until you start looking at what Jesus was saying to Nicodemus.

Imran: 43:36

Hmm, and what, what? You got me a nervous anticipation here. Well, that's good.

Pastor Nick: 43:41

That's good because you know it was just beautiful when we dug into it and and I, totally I, I believe it's, it's what God said, and having Nicodemus. So should we go to the?

Nathan: 43:54

scripture If you want to read it.

Pastor Nick: 43:56

Selena Ezekiel 36, 25.

Nathan: 44:02

25 through. Let's see right here.

Imran: 44:09

Ezekiel what 36. 36, 25.

Nathan: 44:15

Through.

Imran: 44:22

You gotta love it. You want me to take it.

Selena: 44:23

You gotta go ahead. You have it easier on your tablet.

Imran: 44:27

Yeah, right, it's through 27. 25 to 27. Yep, so Ezekiel 36, 25 to 27. I'm reading through the American standard version right now. So, and I will sprinkle clean water upon you and he shall be clean from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will cleanse you. A new heart also I will give you, and a new spirit will I put within you and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and I will give you a heart of flesh. Oh and oh and 27. Yep, and I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my stat, in my statues or my statuses, status no statues, yeah, statues, yep statues, and you shall keep mine ordinances and do them All right.

Imran: 45:15

That's actually super direct.

Nathan: 45:17

Yes, and it's proper.

Pastor Nick: 45:19

And the first, the first verse. I mean that's the highlight of it. I will sprinkle clean water on you.

Nathan: 45:25

And it cleans you, to cleanse you, and you shall be clean from all your filthiness and from all your idols, and I will cleanse you. Yeah, because that's the big problem nowadays is that we have brought our idols to the church, into the church. We have brought our idols into the church and we still have our idols in our hearts and we have not been been born again by water and the spirit, you know. And so he's talking to Nicodemus somewhere, he'll know.

Imran: 45:57

He should know Ezekiel, he should know what this prophecy is and now that we've done this episode on all the levels of schooling that everyone would have gotten like absolutely you would have known the prophecies of Ezekiel 100% and this part of Ezekiel.

Pastor Nick: 46:10

The rabbis would know Absolutely.

Pastor Nick: 46:11

And this part of Ezekiel is the big. It rings a bell for me. You know, and I don't know the Old Testament by heart, memorize none of that, but these two, this area in Ezekiel is big time area. It's the valley of dry bones, it's when you know God really showed off in these, in these verses, here. This is Israel's rest, restoration and how God is speaking, prophecy and what's going to happen and what he's going to do for his people, and so for someone to be in question that he sent from God. It should match up here, the dots should be connecting here somehow, when he starts talking about water and spirit, because water and spirit are all over these Old Testament verses, right here, nice.

Nathan: 46:56

Yeah, and he. What's Jesus's response when he still don't understand? Aren't you a teacher?

Imran: 47:02

at Israel. No, you should know what I'm talking about.

Nathan: 47:05

You're a teacher, you teach the scriptures.

Imran: 47:07

You should know where this is coming from you should know where this is coming from.

Imran: 47:11

You should have no excuse where this is coming from, and Jesus answers a lot of questions that way as well, like Ryan always talks about. I mean, maybe it's a common pastor phrase of scripture interpret scripture, and Jesus actually does that a lot. As he's teaching what becomes the New Testament, he is constantly referring back to prophecy and how he's fulfilling prophecy, how what he's doing is completely in line with what they've been memorizing and learning up to this point. I'm he. I'm the guy you've been waiting for. I'm just trying to explain to you something that should be obvious.

Nathan: 47:45

Yeah.

Pastor Nick: 47:46

And it's so. It's so something that just hit me. It's so beautiful how Jesus meets everyone where they're at.

Selena: 47:55

Yeah.

Pastor Nick: 47:56

And that's that's. We're big on that too, meeting people where they're at, because you see it, when he's out there with the woman at the well, you know these, these people, that that really need Jesus. Anything he says, I the sick, don't the sick need a doctor. The healthy, the healthy don't need a doctor. I came, I came for those that you know. And so most of the time when he's referring to prophecy, it's to the church, it's to the religious folk he's trying to say look, remember what you're saying, like you know and so he don't want to get.

Nathan: 48:30

He can't give it all to Nicodemus you know right, he can't say OK, remember. And Ezekiel, when he said this was like what would be the point. You know he needs him to be really born again. You know, being born again is like a realization within our own heart. Yeah, you know, a confession within our own heart. You know, before God, and feeling sorry before God. You know, like God I'm so, I'm so sorry for the things I've done, the idols that I've carried around, how far I've been from you.

Selena: 49:02

Yeah.

Nathan: 49:02

I've been cut off from you, and that was Nicodemus shot, but he couldn't look past it. He could not look past it, and so yeah that's huge. Yeah, and I I looked through that and I am like, wow, yeah, nicodemus should have known, he should have known, and so we look a little deeper, into 25.

Pastor Nick: 49:24

I will sprinkle clean water on you and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all of your impurities and from your idols. So when I when I'm thinking about water, I'm thinking about his breath. You know the. I'm thinking about his spoken word, what he speaks, the scriptures, the word that we're washed, because you've heard it before washed in the word, you know we wash ourselves in the word. This word is what penetrates our hearts and turns us to him, and so I just I gotta agree now that the water would be the cleansing of God and the cleansing of his word, just hitting my heart, hitting my heart and changing me from the inside out.

Imran: 50:14

I think that that's such a clear and obvious thing to it as well, that the people that are truly in the word all the time are the ones that you see being sent sanctified the fastest, I would say, like their lives are changing the quickest, they're turning away from their idols with the most energy and the most vigor, because they're constantly in the word and that word is cleansing them. Yes, this, I don't remember exactly how, how Pastor David or said it, but basically it's that, like sin is incompatible with, with with God. So if you're surrounding yourself with God's word, then sin will will naturally go away, because sin is not compatible with you, can't have the. There's no cohabitation. You know there will always be conflict within you as long as you allow sin to have root and control over you.

Imran: 51:06

Not saying you're not going to sin because we're we're friable beings, but you allowing, you're gonna have a place in your heart. It means that you're basically saying that the Holy Spirit doesn't have a place in your heart, because the Holy Spirit's not going to dwell where you've allowed sin to dwell.

Pastor Nick: 51:19

Yes, exactly, and there's a fight. There's a fight that's happening and you're declaring victory over over your sin. God has victory, and it's no longer this, this unremorseful battle of you not caring care and because his word is telling you, it's washing you, and and, and so I just yeah.

Nathan: 51:42

And in Ezekiel he says at the end of that, in verse 27,. He says my spirit will lead you to follow my decrees. Right, I think that's what it said. Let me go back to it. Yeah, yeah, I said and I will put my spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. So that's, that's what the spirit does nowadays. The spirit in the Old Testament would be upon people. You know it wouldn't be in people, you know.

Imran: 52:09

So now his spirit is a prophecy of saying he's going to put his spirit in us to move us.

Nathan: 52:14

What's the spirit due to us now? His spirit moves us in and it leads us into our helper and comforter, right when Jesus left. He's sending you someone. You know, don't worry, I'm sending my comforter, you know, my helper. And that's what the spirit does now for us. It leads us in the law, in the law of God yeah, we were still to to follow the law, see, and that's where we kind of get mixed up and I try to tell talk to everybody about this is that when we read the Sermon on the Mount, it's kind of a little bit more intense than the Ten Commandments.

Imran: 52:47

Yeah, it is because, everything.

Nathan: 52:49

Jesus says, is took into a higher standard.

Imran: 52:52

Yeah, and that's what we talked about in the end of our Galatians series of fruit of the spirit acts of the flesh. Yeah, it's that like grace abounds, all the more. Yeah, you know. So if the threshold was give a tenth, well, grace means give far above a tenth, exactly Right. If the law is saying don't. I think the other example we gave us of the law says don't lust after someone like Jesus goes above and says if you look at someone with lust, wise, you've already said exactly.

Imran: 53:20

So the threshold is so much higher, yeah, and so we think that like, hey, I'm not under the law, I can do whatever you want. It's like no, no, no, no, you're not under the law, you're, you're above the law, you're you're. The expectation is even higher. Now, this is the, the standard that that that you're being held to is even higher.

Nathan: 53:36

Yes, and we don't have to be troubled. We don't have to be troubled, though, because we have a God in us.

Pastor Nick: 53:42

Yeah, you know, we have God in us. That's the point here. It's like if I'm just trying to take myself back and I'm thinking, okay, this is, you know, of course they had it memorized, but this would have been like in my, in my phylactery, or in my something on my, somewhere in my stuff, as Nicodemus thinking okay, this is the scripture I'm waiting for. Yeah, you know, this is the scripture where it says God is going to put his spirit in me. Yeah, you know, and it's like I've been watching the Red Sea, I've been watching these, these acts of God move through the burning bush, through through these other situations of his spirit being upon things and people, but it's actually says that his spirit is going to be in us, you know, and so it seems like this is one of the defining verses that Nicodemus should have been like okay, I get it, I understand to be born again is to, to, to have be washed by you and by, sprinkled by your words, sprinkled by you, and to have your spirit put in in the cleanse.

Imran: 54:45

You cleansed, you know, and but you know it's, it's then again that's awesome because then it's like it kind of rephrases, reframes that whole, the whole verse there where, instead of it being you're like, you're born again by water and the spirit, and it's like, well, the water is the word and the spirit is God putting a spirit in you. So you're born again by yes, by literally by God's word and him putting a spirit within you by these two, so he's doing it all.

Pastor Nick: 55:15

Yeah, it's really him.

Imran: 55:16

Yeah, you were born again because he's in you again he's wearing you again, and this is how he's going to do it, and it's it's also. I love this because, even if this is just the only point we get today, I've never had such a practical one to one explanation of what does it physically mean to be born again.

Selena: 55:36

Yeah.

Imran: 55:37

And that is, here's, a physical answer of what it means to be born again. You are cleansed by his word and you're filled with his spirit. Yes, and that is. And once you are cleansed by his word and filled by his spirit, you are born again and that's from the mouth.

Nathan: 55:48

You can go get that from Jesus's mouth. I mean, that's, that's from his, that's what he's telling us. You know, not anybody else.

Pastor Nick: 55:55

He wants us to be, so it takes away all self there.

Imran: 55:58

Yeah, yeah, it takes away and it is on a cleanse by his word and filled by his spirit, and so that is, and then he's bearing you again, that's might have been

Pastor Nick: 56:07

something that Nicodemus was struggling with the self righteousness. It's hard to understand that and even in my, my, my old ways and my old pride and and, and it's like man, I it's. That's a struggle to believe, you know, because so many of us we want to. Those are so freeing it is, it is, but at the same time, people want credit for things. Yeah, people want to know that they're being a good Christian. I want you know what I mean and it's like I want to know you know, but the fact of the matter is I'm not. I'm not because I'm born again. This is him doing this.

Pastor Nick: 56:43

Yeah this is him. And today I went to the ranch and one of the brothers pulled me aside and he said pastor, I just want to thank you. I want to thank you because you you what you did for me and my family this weekend. And it's like, bro, I you're welcome, but I'm telling you, bro, like I wanted to wait out of my way if it wasn't for Jesus leading me through this.

Pastor Nick: 57:07

Yeah exactly Because, you know, there was a situation to where this man he came from banning and a pastor set free banning pastor brought him out and he's been with us for about a almost a month now yeah, about that, about a month and his fiance was living with their mother in law and and it just broke loose there. It broke loose there. They have a brand new newborn baby and they have an older son and, and, and you know, he called me in the office a few days ago and he said, pastor, I need, I need to figure this out. My, my, my fiance's got to go. Can she go to needles, to the women and children's home set for you?

Pastor Nick: 57:49

And you got to understand, like, that's not how most men react to a situation where they're, they're, they're significant other and their children are falling apart out there. Yeah, usually the topic is pastor, I'm sorry, thank you for all your help, but I got to go take care of my family. That's usually what it is and, by natural instinct as a man, that's what it should be. Yeah, but I seen the spirit. I seen that this man was born again.

Pastor Nick: 58:14

Yeah when he pulled me in and he already had the answer. And it's so crazy because I was outside and my brother came to me and he said Nick, we need to talk to Kyle, and the Sunday before that she had came to church, we had anointed her, we had prayed some things out because we already know there was problems there and and so when he said Kyle needs to talk to you, the first thing that came to my head was needles she needs to go to the woman and children's home and needles.

Pastor Nick: 58:38

And he proposed me with that question and when, when things work out like that, it's it's people are born again, you know, and I had to explain that. It's like, bro, like this. Isn't you got to give God this glory? It's not me, you know, even though my flesh is like well, you know. I did do a good job getting her out there this weekend with everything going on and you know, but that's something that's something Nicodemus would have done.

Nathan: 59:03

Yes, no, we do that.

Imran: 59:04

Right. This is like maybe like 10 or 15 episodes ago, but he brought up that if you go somewhere and and you're really in the spirit, you're really filled with the spirit throughout the day and you're looking at life through God's eyes, all right, when you look at someone in need and you have that thought of like someone should do something about that, it's like that's probably because the Holy Spirit is telling you that you're supposed to be the one doing something about that.

Imran: 59:29

So exactly, you know, it's like that tug in your heart is like man, I really hope someone does something about that. Like Holy Spirit is probably saying hey, you're there, I put you there to go do something about that. So go handle that situation. Yeah, you know. But the other part of it, too, is that pride. That pride piece is real. I had to take a few months off of being on stage and worship because I realized that I was not doing it for God, I was doing it for for myself and I had to take some time to just go into the back and just do sound for a few months and just just be there and support the worship. And being there and mentoring and teaching the team that was there really helped open my eyes of this is it's a service. It's a service to the kingdom, it's not about me.

Selena: 1:00:16

Yeah.

Imran: 1:00:16

Right and and it was only through that that I was able to get the gain, the confidence back to, to be able to have my heart in the right place while engaging in worship on stage.

Pastor Nick: 1:00:26

Yeah, and those are the things that show the. The show the born again. They show that we are born again, you know, and so I think that that will lead us into our right into it, right into our next point here of the wind. Yeah, the wind and the spirit, and so we've talked about being born of the water. We've came to the conclusion that that has to do with God's word the cleansing sprinkling of God's word upon our hearts. Yeah now we're going to go into. Born of the spirit.

Nathan: 1:00:58

Yeah, and Jesus. He answered him again. This is very truly, I tell you no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they're born of water, in the spirit. Flash gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised, am I saying you must be born again. The wind blows wherever it pleases, you hear it sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the spirit. I thought it's kind of hard to really know what language they were talking here. A lot of people think that they were talking in Hebrew, but Jesus really didn't speak a lot of Hebrew. Oh, interesting, yeah, he a lot of Aramaic he's spoken. Yes, now, nicodemus spoke Hebrew, so Jesus would have been able to understand some of it. Of course, god himself would have been able to understand all of it, but so the context of it is like, okay, what language are they speaking? Because Jesus also spoke to people in Greek. So Greek, Hebrew, aramaic.

Nathan: 1:02:07

So, what is the what is these are?

Imran: 1:02:09

all I never really thought about. Jesus being knowing three languages, yeah, and what they really think about him speaking English.

Selena: 1:02:16

Exactly, honestly I do.

Pastor Nick: 1:02:18

I mean it's like clearly all the time, but he meets me where I'm at, so we can we find that example in the cross right.

Nathan: 1:02:24

They put three different languages up to right.

Selena: 1:02:26

Remember they wrote King of the Jews in one of the three different languages, the three languages that he was accustomed to.

Nathan: 1:02:33

Oh, wow, yeah, and that was because the part about it is that all these different people were right there.

Imran: 1:02:38

Yeah, am I.

Nathan: 1:02:39

Greek and Jews. That was a language that were being spoken at that time. Yeah, but so when he's saying, when he's saying the wind, you, when the wind blows wherever it pleases, you hear it sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So is everyone born in the spirit? I thought it'd be fast. It was really fascinating when I found out that in Greek, aramaic and Hebrew, the word for wind also means spirit and breath.

Nathan: 1:03:13

Oh and all three languages. So no matter what the languages are the same meaning. So Nicodemus wouldn't have been confused at all. Not at all. Yeah, the Greek word was panoa is for wind and is wind, spirit and breath. Is God who created the wind and controls it? Raha means spirit and a wind and breath and air make. And Raqqa, pronounced Rukqa, is the Hebrew word for spirit, breath and wind. When spoken, the word engages one's breath and lungs. So no matter what the language they're speaking, it was the same thing they were talking about. The wind in the Bible is a symbol of a bunch of different things. It's an unstoppable force, it's intense, you know.

Imran: 1:03:57

Yeah.

Pastor Nick: 1:03:58

We talk about the wind all the time Like even if we know anything out here we know about the wind.

Imran: 1:04:03

Yeah, out here in 20 miles. We know about the wind A few days ago.

Pastor Nick: 1:04:05

Yeah, and you know my first year out here. I wasn't accustomed to the wind out here and we had bought a trampoline for our kids.

Nathan: 1:04:14

Yeah, and a big mistake yeah.

Pastor Nick: 1:04:16

We still got one now. But now it's anchored down Like totally cemented in and like it's our second trampoline in two years. So we know what to do now. But that trampoline went just blowing and it almost came into the side of our trailer, you know, but yeah.

Selena: 1:04:34

It lands on some people's houses over here when they don't know. Yeah. It's like who's trampolining this on top of my roof?

Imran: 1:04:40

Our yard is actually downwind generally and downhill, so we'll get like people's Amazon boxes, lawn furniture, pillows and stuff. We'll just end up in our yard and caught up Because we've got like the bushes and stuff and stuff will just get caught up back there. Yeah, and like I think there was at least one time we had to put something on online I think it was like a pillow or something and we're like hey, does this belong to anyone?

Selena: 1:05:04

Yeah.

Imran: 1:05:04

And they came and just got it one day, while we it just left it in the yard and one day it was gone. So we assumed they came and grabbed it.

Pastor Nick: 1:05:09

Yeah, and so like, like this topic of the wind when Jesus. It's crazy too, because I understand that part of being born again a lot more than the water, the spirit Interesting. The spirit part I understand. You know, and I have understood it for a long time, that I have to be born of his spirit. It's like the wind, I can't really see it, but I could see the effects of it. Yeah, you know, and so I understand that, and I think Nicodemus probably understood that.

Nathan: 1:05:35

a little bit. Yeah, you would. You would think, you know, I also just to let you guys know, don't ever try to do an oil change in the wind, oh my really, it's not really fun.

Nathan: 1:05:46

I tried to do that yesterday but I've seen the effects of it. You know I did too, yeah, being underneath the car up on Jack Stanz and was like whoa one second, yeah, but that's the, that's the. The meaning of this is that you know, you, you, you can't really, you can't see the spirit, but you can see the aftermath. You can see the effects of it. Yes, you can see the aftermath. Sometimes it's you see lives change.

Imran: 1:06:08

Yes, you see the world moving forward through God's power.

Nathan: 1:06:11

Yeah, and for many different Christians it's different. You know, for me it was intense. I went from serving Nordic gods, nordic idols, like old gang life, to serving Jesus. Like you know, like that it was intense, it was. It was. The aftermath was intense. You can see the effect, but for some people it's subtle.

Imran: 1:06:34

Yeah.

Nathan: 1:06:34

You know it's a. It's a light breeze, you know, but you can still see the effects of it. You know, and that's what he's saying here. Is that, look, you know, you, you can't see where the wind is. You mean, because you only could see the aftermath of it.

Pastor Nick: 1:06:47

Yeah, and it just brings into more confirmation and it just you know that it's, it's a faith it's about. It's a lot about faith. Jesus is a lot about faith and and and believing the things that we are so accustomed to not believing because we can't see them, and, and I believe culture and and, even back then it's it's. People have always believed the things that they could see from the garden.

Selena: 1:07:19

Yeah.

Pastor Nick: 1:07:19

Yeah, you know what the questioning and you know is it really, you know what I mean.

Pastor Nick: 1:07:25

And let's see, let's, let's test it for ourselves, let's check it out. If we see it's bad, then we'll make the decisions. If it's bad or not, you know, and it's like it's. That's what humans are about, and and when Jesus comes and he flips everything upside down, it's hard to understand. It's hard to understand. That's why I think faith, it just really comes in the picture here and that and through the wind story, through him saying look the wind. You can't see it, but you could see what happens from it. Yes, and so I.

Nathan: 1:07:55

So, after the after, you are being washed and cleansed and your idols purified and you walking in newness of life, being born from heaven. I find it really fascinating that Jesus came from heaven to be born of flesh. We were born of flesh but have to be reborn of heaven. You know, and it's just this, this ultimate meeting of the middle of God and man being drawn back together, and in that he's the sanctification part, starts here. It starts here. We says you'll see the effects if they've born again was really true, you know, you'll see the effects of it.

Pastor Nick: 1:08:37

And just to, to kind of where you see this, this, because so we've talked about the water, we've talked about be cleansed in the word, we've just touched on the spirit and and the wind and the effects, and and that it's all God, it's. It's him speaking his word, him pouring his word and then him coming into, to be in us, to to carry out that word and then and so to to meet that all it's. It's like a, it's a mind blowing thing, even for me to understand right now, even though I've had a radical abandonment of my old self and it's and it's. I'm a totally different person than what I, what I was, and I believe I am born again.

Pastor Nick: 1:09:24

And and and because, but still it's like whoa, this is, this is intense, this is intense, why, why and then, and so that kind of goes into our, our, our position, our position. And I don't want to go too far into sanctification quite yet, because I think that that could be our next, our next podcast next week, but I think that our last point of John 3, 16 speaks of that. Yeah, it speaks of why me, why do I have to be born again? Why, why does this even? For what reason? Yeah, absolutely. For what reason here Do I have to be washed? For what reason do I have to have God operate in me? Why am I being brought to God?

Nathan: 1:10:11

Yeah, by God, yeah, and because and I and I love that, now that I've gotten deeper into knowing who Jesus is like, you know, the more and more you get to know Jesus, the more and more you get to know His thoughts.

Nathan: 1:10:26

You know, you, you start to yeah you start to feel and understand what he would think about a certain situation, when you're in His word, when you're leaning on His spirit, when you're walking with Him, and it's like I've heard John 3, 16. I don't know how many times, but I've never read before and I never read after. You know, and they don't, and after his time.

Imran: 1:10:45

It's like. It's like the Philippians. I think what Philippians four to do is like I can do all things through Christ four, 13.

Pastor Nick: 1:10:51

Yeah, and there's so many verses like that. The big one for me would be Jeremiah 29 11. Yeah, you know which was that, for I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Have plans to give you a future and a hope. At the beginning, that's all I ever heard from my mother and and from being wrote and incarcerated, reading it at the bottom of letters and, and so I held on to that verse. But there's so much more in those verses.

Nathan: 1:11:15

Yeah.

Pastor Nick: 1:11:15

So much more that if you read a little bit above and a little bit below, you start to love the depth and the content you live in those verses now, and now you understand that those verses don't really come to play, unless you are born again and you start searching them out.

Nathan: 1:11:30

Yeah, and I get what you're saying. What were you saying about Philippians four 13?

Selena: 1:11:35

Yeah.

Imran: 1:11:36

That like I hear that phrase all the time, I can do all things through Christ, because it's made people who have bumper stickers, tattoos, you know, buttons on their, on their backpacks and stuff, but but you asked them it's like, well, what's the rest of the chapter about?

Selena: 1:11:49

Yes, and that was all right when he was writing in prison and talking about how like okay he was like with his situation.

Pastor Nick: 1:12:00

Yeah, contentment, yeah, through his suffering.

Nathan: 1:12:02

Yeah, I can do I can, I can suffer well through Christ. Yeah, you know, and just like uh, jeremiah twenty nine eleven. Right after that it says uh, then you will call me and come to me and pray and we'll listen to me. You will seek me and find me. When you seek me with all your heart People don't like to read the verse right after If you seek me with all your heart, yeah, there's an if there, then you'll have a future.

Imran: 1:12:24

Then you'll have a future. No, then you'll have hope. You know that's. That's the thing which is I try to put. If, then, statements on God but, you know God, I could do all things God has the authority to put. If, then, statements on us yes.

Pastor Nick: 1:12:33

I could do all things through Christ, who strengthens me. He wasn't. Paul wasn't filling out a job application to make more money here. Yeah, he was talking about suffering. I could suffer through anything if Jesus is in me.

Nathan: 1:12:44

You know, yeah, he was confessing that, you know, and proclaiming that that, no matter what his situation, no matter in chains, or he said if I'm shipwrecked or if I'm without, or whatever I am, I'm all right.

Selena: 1:12:57

Yeah.

Nathan: 1:12:58

I'm all right because in Christ is the one that strengthens me, you know. And so with John 3, 16, right after that, he's saying look they afraid to come to light because they don't want their deeds exposed. You know, they're afraid to do this because they don't want their deeds exposed. Darkness and how light have nothing to gather. So I think it's just a big thing to read the whole chapter. We got to teach the people, our brothers and sisters, when we're trying to disciple, and once they're born again, once they've been washed in the spirit and washed in the water and cleansed, and once they have, we have seen the effect, to teach them to read the word, to really read the word.

Pastor Nick: 1:13:50

And I just, I just love that. I love that it is. He's telling he's finishing up here with Nicodemus and Nicodemus is just bewildered, he's stumped, he's scratching his head. He is not, he's totally lost now. He thought he was going to have control of this conversation and that's it's like Jesus derailed it in the first.

Imran: 1:14:11

his first response yeah.

Pastor Nick: 1:14:12

And so what a loving, what a loving savior that he runs into this verse of one of the most profound verses for God. So love the world, you know. And and he explains to him, he kind of he's easing off now a little bit. You know, I sense him kind of easing off Nicodemus and he's like look, even though you don't understand this, there's still hope for you. There's still hope for you, and and and the crazy part about Nicodemus is we don't ever hear if he was born again or not.

Nathan: 1:14:43

No, you know, we don't ever we see some stuff happening.

Pastor Nick: 1:14:48

We we seen, so the first.

Nathan: 1:14:51

This is the first thing. The second thing was he spoke up in the middle of the council saying should we condemn a man without first examining him, when, when?

Pastor Nick: 1:15:00

Jesus was arrested and brought as a blasphemer before Pilate he was there.

Nathan: 1:15:05

He spoke up for not spoke up for Jesus in a way like, oh I know this man's innocent. But he said wait a second, should? We can't condemn him without first examining him. So he tried to prevent it in a way that he wanted to examine him first and then the third time.

Pastor Nick: 1:15:21

Pastor, yeah, he. So the third time was when Jesus, he gave money, I mean he gave the aloe and the mirror and the heat for Jesus to be buried, cleaned him and Joseph, the guy, the rich guy that they had the tomb, Remember Joseph and Nicodemus. And so Nicodemus gave to the burial, Kind of took care of funeral costs in a sense and so, but you really don't see a radical sanctification here. You don't see that he got to the point of he understood, and it's kind of scary in a sense because he got involved a little bit but he didn't go.

Pastor Nick: 1:16:00

It doesn't to me it doesn't seem like he dove all the way deep and he really accepted a savior.

Nathan: 1:16:06

Yeah.

Imran: 1:16:07

That's interesting. I mean, obviously we don't have all the every moment of his life. Even on his death bed he could have been like yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, and I'm not saying it's for sure, but it leaves me.

Pastor Nick: 1:16:19

It leaves me like man. Today is the day.

Nathan: 1:16:22

Yeah.

Pastor Nick: 1:16:23

Today is the day of salvation, because I don't want to get questioned and think I know something. And then, all of a sudden, I'm left pouring in my life savings to act like I was. You don't, you understand what?

Pastor Nick: 1:16:36

I'm saying here yeah, because it's to kind of ease off of him at the end and say no one has ever gone to heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of man. And then he explains Moses a little bit and then right after that he gives him the opportunity. It's almost like he says this is your opportunity, nicodemus, this is what you have to do. And so he, he spoke to him the way that he thought that he believed he would understand. Yeah, even though he already knew he's God. Obviously he already knew it was going to happen, but he kind of gave that opportunity.

Pastor Nick: 1:17:12

I mean, what scriptures use the most to get people saved? I mean, the scripture that changed my heart was John 3.16. Yeah For God, so love the world. That showed me that God was love and even though I was a part of the world, he wanted me. Yeah, you know, and it's so. It's almost like Jesus is giving, he is almost leading him through the ultimate sinner's prayer here right now. Look at, this is what you have to do the everyone who believes may have eternal life. And then he goes into John 3.16.

Selena: 1:17:41

Yeah.

Pastor Nick: 1:17:41

So it's like he's given him the opportunity and I, and so it's just, it's beautiful to me, yeah.

Imran: 1:17:47

And isn't that crazy though that that is that one of the most prolific and iconic scriptures that have come out of the word, like Jesus, give the sermon on the mount. He fed the 5000 and was giving a sermon when he fed them. He taught as he was in a boat, talking to the, talking to the legions of people, and one of the most prolific scriptures that have saved so many lives is one that was that he gave to a man that questioned him in the night.

Nathan: 1:18:16

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, and there wasn't many cases with this guy, nicodemus. He wasn't mentioned again. He wasn't like a big time saint in the Bible and you know. So, yeah, it's, it's really phenomenal that we get to pull from this story and really understand. And then I just like to, as we were talking a little bit ago about John 316 and how we like to remember that scripture and we like to live by that scripture, I want to point out another scripture that is also a 316, but it's a revelations 316. Huh, and it's a scripture that I think we need to know in this, in this born again topic. It says Revelations 316.

Imran: 1:19:10

I love it. I love it already, yeah, yeah.

Nathan: 1:19:13

It's to the church of Lucida, to the angel of the church of Lucida, right. These are the words of the amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other. So because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I am about to spit you out of my mouth, and I love that because that's revelation 316. Yeah, like knowing John, 316 is really phenomenal.

Nathan: 1:19:45

I know God loved the world and I know that if I believe on him, that I'll have eternal life. But also I need to be really in this. I need to really be born again. I need to really be born again. I need to really be born again.

Imran: 1:19:54

I think the next verse after that is also a huge wake up call to you. You say I am rich, I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing, but you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

Pastor Nick: 1:20:08

And this scripture was very big in my walk with Jesus, because I was, my covers were pulled, there was no more faking it anymore. I prayed for him to take me out of me. I prayed that I didn't have to do this anymore. And but as I was in my, when I became born again, he called me out on this scripture in revelations and he said look, you're not gonna be Nicodemus and you're not gonna sit on the fence anymore.

Pastor Nick: 1:20:42

You know, and, and I believe Nicodemus was kind of like a fence sitter. He kind of he sat there and he believed a little bit, but then he did it and he's like just, you know, and so this scripture right here is is for the fence sitter, for the lukewarm, for the one that you know I don't, I don't know I'm born again, but you know, I feel like that I still need to do this or I still need to do that, or when it feels good, or when it Feels right. You know, and it's like I'll use these scriptures to my benefit and when, when, when things, and so I just it's so profound that that's a 316 and that goes along with it. You know, like, once you're born again, you, you gotta, you gotta, give it all yeah, there's no, you can't, just it's, it's all his, my life is his for his glory.

Pastor Nick: 1:21:30

and whatever I do, you know, and this, even even in this man, I at first I'm like man, this is, this is new. You know, this podcast doing this, I don't, you know, I'm not, I'm not used to this, you know. But. But God says, whatever it is, it's gonna be for me. Yeah, so just do it, and, and, and, and, you know, said Imran didn't when when he came to preach at your church with no lights, that was new for him.

Pastor Nick: 1:21:59

He did it, you know and he was showing me these things if we're in a body of believers, we're gonna do things that they're new to us, because God God's gonna get the glory.

Pastor Nick: 1:22:09

You know no man and that's my life for him, that's our life for him, and and so I'm just, I'm excited, man, yeah, if someone's gonna hear this and maybe they can relate with, with us coming from the the dark background of of gangs and and and really false idols of Viking gods and all that stuff and and just really getting saved and and porn again to a new life.

Pastor Nick: 1:22:34

And yes, and and it's beautiful. And so I think I think, next week, talking about the position, because John 3, 16 tells us our position, our position in heaven, if we, if we believe, we have a position, if we believe and we're born again, if we believe in Jesus, that he has came from God, that gives us our position, that sanctifies us, where we're set apart, we, we know we've been washed, we know that we've we've had the spirit put upon us and so we're sanctified. But I believe that next week we can go deeper into Positional sanctification and progressive sanctification. Yes, because it's a progressing process of that. And so I think, um, yeah, that's awesome gentlemen.

Imran: 1:23:21

Oh, thank you so much for coming on.

Pastor Nick: 1:23:22

Yes.

Selena: 1:23:23

Thank you, I know it was a you didn't like Know.

Imran: 1:23:26

A podcast existed two weeks ago and then now you're like seven episodes into a lot of stories. You're on a podcast, but I think that, uh, I'd like to leave, just to stay in the spirit of the, of giving some of the context surrounding the verses. So we talked about the. I will cleanse you of all your impurities, and through the, through the water and through the Spirit. But I want to just read some more of that Ezekiel 36, because, as I'm reading through one, you also just read Ezekiel, because this is crazy.

Pastor Nick: 1:23:57

Yes, yes, you got it, it's. You got to dive deeper to Ezekiel, because this is the Valley of dry bones and everything, and so go ahead.

Imran: 1:24:05

I just want to read a little bit. I'm gonna start at verse 22, and I just want you all to just hear the prophecy that is being given to the people of Israel, because it's so intense and so real for our lives today, and and what God's mission really is. Therefore, say to the Israelites this is what the sovereign Lord says to you. It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I'm going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations when you have gone, I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares a sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy Through you, before their eyes. For I will take you out of the nations. I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into our, into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all impurities and From all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you. I will remove you from your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh, and I will put my spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. Then you will live in the land I give your, I gave your ancestors, you will be my people and I will be your God. And he closes with this.

Imran: 1:25:27

I think this is intense too. I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine. Then you will remember your evil ways, your wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. I want you to know that I am not, that I am not doing this for your sake. Declare the sovereign Lord, be ashamed and be disgraced for your conduct.

Imran: 1:26:00

People of Israel, right and so. That is so intense for me because it really highlights that it is God's not doing this. He, god, loved the world and he came and he and he gave his only begotten son. But it was to show his righteousness, his glory, his honor, and we are his chosen people that he's going to use to show his glory, his honor and his righteousness. So don't ever get it twisted. He, god's not living, living his eternity for you. No, you're in service to him Exactly.

Pastor Nick: 1:26:33

And it's just, it's mind-blowing to think that you know for Nicodemus, this was Memorized for him.

Selena: 1:26:40

Yeah, he had to memorize your wickedness.

Pastor Nick: 1:26:43

It was a part of his memorization. He, he included himself as the people of God, the Israel, yeah, you know, and and the teacher of Israel at that. So.

Imran: 1:26:52

Yes, gracious, yeah, so I think with that We'll leave it there. Hopefully that inspires you all to break open up Ezekiel and just listen to that some more as you go Through the week and also read through the book of John, read through the Gospels. If you haven't really Understood the life, the whole life of Jesus played out over the course of the Gospels. Like, take some time and and actually like you can Turn on an audio, an audio book of the Bible, and listen to it and it's intense as you go through. But um, again, gentlemen, thank you so much.

Imran: 1:27:20

I'm super excited for us doing this again next week. This has been awesome.

Pastor Nick: 1:27:25

Yes, thank you for having us.

Imran: 1:27:26

We're honored, yeah and so, with that, we'll see you all next week on the next episode of real Bible stories.

Selena: 1:27:33

Thank you for tuning in to real Bible stories. If you enjoyed this podcast, be sure to leave a review, share and subscribe to be notified each week when we upload new episodes. Real Bible stories is produced in partnership with Palm Church in 29 Palms, california. If you would like more information or want to check out archive sermons and Bible studies, please check out the church website at palms Baptist church comm or check them out on Facebook, instagram or YouTube. Real Bible stories can be found wherever podcasts are found. Thank you again and we will see you next week.