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The Sojo Show
The Sojo Show makes Bible Study fun with spontaneous conversations between Arabah Joy and Jen Evangelista. Together we discover how the study of God's Word can impact our everyday lives.
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The Sojo Show
Leading Through Discipleship: A Call for Every Believer
Today we are discussing the topic of Christian leadership and discipleship.
Join us as we:
Explore how every believer can lead through discipleship, challenging traditional views with insights from 1 Timothy 6:11-16.
And discover practical strategies for mentoring others and fostering unity in the body of Christ.
Inspire and equip you to embrace your role in guiding and disciplining those around you.
Read the Show Notes: sojohub.com/believer116
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Help us continue making great content for listeners everywhere.
Welcome to our July Rise Up Rally.
Speaker 2:Yay, it's Rise Up Rally. This is one of my favorites.
Speaker 1:So you originally, when we started doing these, wanted music. So do you want to go ahead and sing for us?
Speaker 2:Not that kind of music. I wanted music to inspire, not cringeworthy music.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Sojo Show with Jen and AJ, where you'll dig deep into God's Word alongside two imperfect, frequently ineloquent women, as we discover fresh ways to walk out God's truth together. All right, well, welcome to the rally. A lot to talk about today. A lot we do, we do. What do you want to start with, aj? Well, questions to start with. Yes, let's do, let's ask them. Your sound is cutting on and off. Do you have your AirPods in, by any chance? All right, can you guys hear this better? Yes, yes, it was like you're you were talking and nothing was coming out.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I want you guys to be interactive today, because we have a lot of different directions this conversation could go in, and so we're going to need you guys to help us determine what exactly we want to talk about. It's like a future story? Yeah, it really is. This is a huge topic, so the first question we want to ask is how do you guys define Christian leadership?
Speaker 1:Or what do you think of? What's your first thought when you think of Christian leadership? And there's no right or wrong answer to this Teachers, pastors, yes, those who lead the church, bible study leaders, traditional views, pastors, teachers, youth leaders, music ministry, missionaries, yep. So I think it is safe to say that it would not be wrong to consider, to think about when you first come.
Speaker 1:Think about leadership is thinking about actual leaders in the church, right, and there are those called to be pastors and elders and teachers and to lead the body. I mean, 1 Timothy that we're studying this month is all about. You know Paul's instruction to an actual pastor, right? You guys all, if you're in a local body, you have a pastor and you have elders or deacons or leaders in your church and they're called to lead, and I think that that is definitely a definition of spiritual leadership, right. And then Ramona I like the way Ramona put this, because this is where we're going with this. So what first comes to mind is people in position of leadership, but I think it can also apply to anyone who is stepping into the mission that Christ called them to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and really okay.
Speaker 2:So, if we step back, we have a definition of leader is basically somebody who has someone else following them.
Speaker 2:So at the just very basic core, the just very basic core definition, that's what a leader is, and that means that we all have we're all leaders in some capacity, right, because we all have somebody following us, whether that's our children, our grandchildren, somebody that we mentor in church or work or life or whatever. We all have someone who is, or even in the online space, we all have someone who is looking to us and following us or watching our example, and so this is kind of what we want to focus in on today, because you don't have to have a title or have to be in Christian leadership per se for these principles that we're learning to apply, and so we don't want you guys or ourselves to be intimidated by a title and feel like, okay, well, that doesn't apply to me, because it honestly and truly does. Each one of us has been called to make disciples, and that is a form of leadership, so we're going to kind of get into this today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, alyssa, sometimes I forget that my current ministry or mission field is my own children. Yeah, I'm saying yes, and so I think that that is. I think that, in particular, is one thing that when you're in the trenches, we are, we think, oh well, my role necessarily is not one of leadership, or it's not as important as those who are outwardly and openly called to be leaders of many. But we are called to lead those that are in our sphere, whether that's our children or whether that is other people that we have to kind of reach out to get into our sphere. So that's a whole nother. That's a whole nother topic. But but yeah, we, we cannot forget, we cannot forget that.
Speaker 2:Okay, so are we ready to open a can of worms, jen?
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't know which can you open. Well, about several cans.
Speaker 2:I know so in my mind, okay and this is coming from a perspective as someone who has been in overseas ministry for a long time To me, leadership is discipleship, and I get that from scripture, the Great Commission, at its most basic form. Every single believer is to be a disciple maker, and that, to me, is what every believer can do. You don't have to be a pastor or a missionary or a teacher or anything like that, you just have to be saved, and so I think it would be helpful for us to understand how we can do that, what that looks like, how we can do that, whether it's with our children or whether it's in our local church or whatever. We know that God has said go make disciples. So what does that look like? How can I do that as a woman? How can I do that with the experiences that I have, with the seasons of life that I'm in, or with the restrictions that I have on my time? I think that's where we need to focus.
Speaker 1:I agree. I will say that if we look at 1 Timothy, I just talk about what we're all commanded to do. There's a small little passage in 1 Timothy 6, which kind of encapsulates and summarizes 1 Timothy pretty well, and it talks about what we're all meant to do, and it's 1 Timothy 6, 11 through 16. Let me just briefly roll through this and then I think this might help us going forward, because we can recognize that we're all meant to do this, and then talk about how we can practically, you know, live this out. So, 1 Timothy 6, verse 11, as for you, a man of God talking you know Paul's talking to Timothy flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness and gentleness. So the pursuit of these virtues. Okay, that's one thing that we are called to do. Paul encouraged Timothy and we are called to do as well. Right, verse 12, fight the good fight of faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. So engaging in spiritual battles. Right, fight the good fight. We've talked about this ad nauseum. And then also having an eternal perspective. Right, he encourages Timothy to take hold of the eternal life to have an eternal perspective.
Speaker 1:Verses 13 and 14, he is calling for faithfulness to the commandments of God. I charge you, in the presence of God, to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach. And then the last bit in 15 and 16, he's acknowledging God's sovereignty, which he will display at the proper time, he who is blessed and only sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords. In these few verses, paul is telling Timothy a few things that we all need to hear. One pursue righteousness, pursue these virtues. Two engage in the battle. Fight the fight as you're pursuing it. Number three keep an eternal perspective as you are battling. Number four stay faithful to his commands. And number five. Number four stay faithful to his commands. And number five acknowledge his lordship and sovereignty over all. And I think that when we do those things personally, that helps us to gain perspective and strength to then do the commandment that we're talking about today and that AJ's talking about, which is to go and make disciples of men right, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, and I was just thinking, as you were reading that passage in Timothy, when we live out that kind of life and when we focus on our character, we become influential, like that is naturally a way that we gain respect. We gain God's favor not that he's, you know, giving us favor because we're righteous or good, but you know he blesses a life that is obedient to him. And we become influential. We have a voice in other people's lives and so I think a lot of times we people rely on a title to be heard or a platform to be heard, when, in reality, when we focus on cultivating that character this, I mean this is Paul's instructions to young Timothy. You know, when we focus on that, as he instructed him to do, that is going to give you a strong foundation and is going to make you influential in other people's lives.
Speaker 2:And so a lot of times our culture, we can be so swayed and persuaded that we have to do this or that or the other to lead somebody quote unquote when, in fact, when we focus on what God instructs us to focus on, it happens naturally. So that was just kind of a side note. But going back to the disciple, it doesn't take someone being a mega church pastor to be influential, all it takes is every single person in the body of Christ doing their job to focus on one person at a time. There is great exponential power in that, and so that's kind of what we want to challenge ourselves with this month is to think about who am I leading?
Speaker 2:Am I being intentional about that? Am I being intentional about how I'm leading? Am I being a disciple maker in my leadership, or is my leadership more just fly by the seat of my pants, which sometimes that's okay. Sometimes we have to be that, but it does take some intentionality. When Jesus said go and make disciples, do I understand what that means? Do I understand what that looks like? Do I have a few tools as to how to do that, and how do I know if I'm hitting the target or not? You know, how can I evaluate my actions and my choices to know if what I'm doing is actually fulfilling that mission? These are all the questions we need to be asking ourselves.
Speaker 1:I will also say that, interestingly, when you are in a group of people that are practicing this, then the organic involvement of other people becomes more natural.
Speaker 2:We have to be intentional to make that happen, though I mean we could. You know, there's a million things that call for our time and our attention and that we could be spending our time in our lives doing so. We have to be intentional about fulfilling this mission and and the you know we do become an example to others to show them what's possible.
Speaker 1:So when you know, when you are building these relationships, then it shows other people, it encourages other people to do the same.
Speaker 2:So, with that in mind, what questions or challenges do you guys have about being a disciple or being a disciple maker? Okay, so we're just opening the floor for you guys to ask your questions, and maybe we probably want to put them in the chat, because everybody has an opinion, so we'll kind of use the chat as our springboard.
Speaker 1:Okay, karen, isn't it hard to always be a disciple to someone? Do you need to find a new circle of people to be talking to? I think that we don't need to think of it in such a strict manner. There's a difference between intentionality and you know. We don't want to be legalistic about it.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think some of that goes back to the one anothering. You know, as we're, as we're doing, that it opens doors to have relationships, which then becomes open door for discipling, you know, and it can be a two way street where you know someone is sees our struggles and we see their struggles and we're both encouraging each other and pushing each other to keep up in the faith, to not give in, to persevere, to say no to temptation, all of those things that we would naturally do in a discipleship kind of relationship. Honestly, it goes back to our definition of what is a disciple. If we are to make disciples, well, what is a disciple? How do we make them? You know, what does that involve? What does that look like? How did Jesus do it? How did Jesus make disciples of his 12 followers and beyond? You know, there's a lot that we could go into here, but I think it starts with we have to have relations. We have to have genuine relationships with people and make ourselves vulnerable and open our schedule to connect with others in a real and meaningful way. And when we do that, then the Lord can bring together those longer relationships. You know he can. He can use that then to allow us to have influence in other people's lives and give them influence in ours. You know, but a lot of us are just so busy that we don't, or we're so afraid of that level of intimacy that we don't, or we're so afraid of that level of intimacy that we don't have this experience.
Speaker 2:Julie has a good question. Is there a point where we outgrow needing discipleship ourselves? My kids are ages two to 19 and a lot of younger moms reach out to me for advice, but I would still dearly love to have an older woman discipling me, challenging me to grow my faith and helping me navigate relationships with my adult children. I just don't Oops, I just don't have a lot of this discipleship for myself right now, but I would love it if the Lord brings it about at some point. My answer would be I don't think you ever outgrow it. No, I think we're all as a disciple ourselves of Jesus Christ. We're always learning and we can always be part of. It is just iron, sharpening iron, having those people, those kinds of people, in our lives, and we never outgrow our need for that, and also are the benefits that we could receive we're always gaining when we have that kind of people, those kinds of people in our lives, and I'm glad you're doing that for other young moms, julie. I think that is super important.
Speaker 2:For a long time I prayed for someone to mentor me and disciple me and it seemed like the Lord didn't answer that prayer and then he sent me overseas where I was totally alone. I didn't have anybody. But I will say this I was discipled a lot through books and just classic people in the faith who had shared their spiritual journey, their insights, how they lived out their faith. That's been a huge impact in my life and sermons from godly men. So those are the things that if you are missing someone in that capacity in your life, there are other ways you can still gain. It just may not be somebody with skin on in front of you.
Speaker 1:Ramona, here's something to ponder. In the midst of using our spiritual gifts, how can we carry out the Great Commission and disciple others in the unique circumstance where God has placed us?
Speaker 2:Well, I also like what Valerie said. She says looking back on last month, where one of the points was to teach one another. One way this can be done is by making friends with others and then, naturally, discussing things that are important, and that is just. That is so. It seems so simple, but that is one of the biggest components of discipleship is being in God's word and then sharing what you're reading with somebody else. Just talking about it in your daily life, texting a friend or telling somebody oh I read this in my scripture time this morning and I thought of you or I prayed for you, or just however. It is just sharing God's word because then that opens up a conversation, and that's normally where discipleship happens is just an everyday conversations You're. You don't have to be in a quote unquote disciple maker role to have a disciple. That you're, that you're making, if that makes sense. It doesn't have to be an official capacity. You can make a disciple by just simply talking about God's truths on a regular basis to someone else.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I see SoJay fulfilling a lot of these roles. Yeah, I've had to live my spiritual life out loud or intentionally in the presence of someone who may or may not care about God. So, yeah, I think that having a group, you know, like Sojo, like your local body, like a small group of women, like a Bible, whatever it is, having a group of women who stand for the gospel, we're all just a little bit different in the nuances of theology. I think theology is super important and I have an opinion about most of the nuances. I'll just say that. However, I know that my opinions and AJ and I's opinions are pretty much the same on most things, but our opinions are not going to be necessarily the way we interpret I shouldn't say opinions, but the way we interpret the word may not be the same way that you've been taught or interpret the word.
Speaker 1:Some of those nuances, as important as they are, they're not dividers, right, it's not. They're not. They're not. They're open-handed issues. What's close-handed and what we all should be believing is that we are sinners, we deserve death, god in his goodness and his son to be the sacrifice on a cross that we deserve, to take the penalty of death and to take away, then our sin and shame and replace it with his righteousness and the basics of the gospel. And now we stand before the throne of God with the righteousness of Christ on us. If we believe the basics of the gospel, then we are.
Speaker 1:You know, we can hash out all the details and we can discuss them and we can talk about them at times, but they are not divided. They're, they should not divide us. Those are the beautiful things to talk about in the, maybe in a discipleship relationship. Yeah, what's your interpretation of this versus this Right? And then a lot of it's going to depend on your background. It's going to depend on your you know your parents, if they taught you your church, if it, if you grew up in your own spiritual maturity because the spoiler alert your, the nuances of theology are probably going to change over time and if they don't, then that may mean that you're not digging quite deep enough, because we do tend to understand things more as we dig deeper. Okay, so I just kind of want to bring it and just make sure that we understand that being with a group of people that believe the gospel is important and will make us grow and will stretch our thinking on these other things.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up, jen, because I was actually thinking that way back at the beginning of this conversation. There are certain things that just should not divide us. You know, we should be okay with having other people in the body of Christ who think differently or, like you said, who interpret things differently, and this is one of the things that I see a lot of in the online space. We can get into these little camps and it's like we start lobbying these darts at people in other camps who don't think exactly like we think, when in reality, guys, we're all. If we're saved by the blood of Jesus, we should be united against the common enemy, which is Satan, who is wreaking havoc in our world. That is where we should be standing together, like not lobbying at each other because we don't view things the same.
Speaker 2:So I wanted to leave you guys with a resource, though, because I know some of the questions probably in your mind are okay, I want to be a better discipler, how do I get started? So, first off, this is something that coming in September, so next month is going to be our last Sojo Strong pillar, and then in September, we're going to change things up in the academy so that we start implementing a little better. And this is one of the things we're going to do we're going to try to structure the academy where there's more discipleship and more of that. So just kind of hold on for a second, but in the meantime I wanted to share this book with you because this is a very simple, simple guide to starting a discipleship kind of relationship with somebody else. You can either start it with one person or you can start she recommends no more than five people, a group of five people, so you can start it with two people, one it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:But basically what this, what her structure is, if you don't want to buy the book, she basically gives a reading plan where you hit the highlights of scripture over the course of a year and everybody goes through this reading plan and you meet every week to talk about what you're reading and how it applies to your life. And each day's reading you journal, you journal how the Lord's speaking to you, or you journal your thoughts. You journal you know how you're convicted, whatever it is, and that's what you talk about when you come together. So it's a very simple, simple, simple way of doing discipleship. It's centered around the word of God, which personally I think any discipleship group needs to be.
Speaker 2:Any discipleship relationship needs to be centered around the word of God, whether it's an official one or not. And it's doable, it's super doable. You're just reading the same passages and then you're coming together and you're talking about it, and so, if you want more details, this is the book. It's called Disciple Her. It's by Candy Gallanty and she's a pastor's wife in Tennessee. My husband has gone to for training.
Speaker 2:It's Gallanty G-A-L-L-A-T-Y.
Speaker 1:And it's K-A-N-D-I.
Speaker 2:K-A-N-D-I. Yes, so that is it's just. It's super simple.
Speaker 1:It's not like a huge curriculum that you have to go through and like all these lessons, it's just reading the Bible together, yeah, and but, but even the basics that, um, as I said, just starting in the word is really important and, um, and we are going to be doing something really, really, I think, really cool the last four months of the year. Yeah, um, it's going to be very cohesive and very exciting and I'm really pumped about it, even as we're prepping for it and we're going to try to incorporate some of this into it. For those who are interested and wanting to grow in this way, I am pretty, I'm pretty excited about it. I do want to, I do want to just say out loud what Carrie this last comment here, carrie, that Satan would like nothing better than to tear the church apart yeah, that's true. We just have to, you know, be prepared and we have to put on the armor of God on a regular basis. We have to be ready for the battle.
Speaker 1:This might have been a little bit more of an uncomfortable topic than some of the ones, because this is a topic that's going to stretch us if we start to really implement what we learn, but it's also something that is necessary for the kingdom. I mean this is, I mean God does not call us just to be the cul-de-sac. You've heard me say this before. I know I have, because I say it all the time we're not. We don't just study the Bible, we don't just and that's why and Sojo Academy has done that for a long time We've done a lot. We do the Bible study and that's important.
Speaker 1:It's important to know the word. That's not all. It is we on that information right? We don't just sit on our growth and sit in the beauty of our sanctification. No, we have to be a highway. We have to go out and pour it out and throw stuff off of each exit to people. We're a highway. We are not a cul-de-sac, we are not stale. We are moving and we are growing and we are pushing others into growth. What a beautiful picture that is, what a beautiful idea of it. Doesn't take me standing in front of 500 people, 500 women to it doesn't require that. It requires one intentional relationship and as we build that, god will multiply Love. That.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just one final thought. As you were talking, jen, about the highway, I was thinking we're soldiers, you know, we're warriors. We aren't called to sit, we're called to do spiritual battle. And that means that, ladies, you've been activated, you're on active duty, so let's get after it. Yep, absolutely, and we love you guys. Yes, see you guys next week. Y'all have a good one.
Speaker 1:Bye.
Speaker 3:Hey guys, it's AJ here with a personal question. Do you ever long to connect with other women over God's word? If so, I'd like to personally invite you to be part of our online Bible study community. Sojo Academy is where Jen and I meet via Zoom every week with our global community to discuss God's word, pray and share what we are learning with each other. In Sojo Academy, you'll get a fresh Bible study every month, as well as weekly meetups, bible journaling kits, accountability community and an entire library of workshops and Bible study tutorials. Jumpstart your walk with God and come hang out with us live this week. Visit SojournAcademycom and we'll see you inside.
