Domestic Violence and How Survivors Navigate the Court System

In Connecticut, 1/3 of all criminal court cases involve domestic violence. Everyday dozens of victims seeking help can’t get it and are turned away from critical services, including shelters. Earlier this month a report claimed that Connecticut shelters were at 150 percent capacity. Some agencies were trying to get hotel rooms because of a lack of space. Whether you call it family violence, domestic violence or intimate partner violence it is a serious health crisis in Connecticut.

Jennifer Lopez is the Interval House Director of Court Advocacy Programs in Hartford. Jennifer has worked for 30 years on behalf of domestic violence victims in the court system both in criminal and civil proceedings. She says COVID created a backlog in the court system, and they are still catching up with all the cases. She says every case in court is different but the most important part of leaving an abusive relationship is having a safety plan.

Jane Doe is a domestic violence survivor and is going through both criminal and civil court proceedings and says CT Paid Leave is invaluable. She says there are many court dates, and it makes it hard to take time away from work to attend them.

The Family Violence provisions that CT Paid Leave offers to eligible workers in Connecticut includes 12 days of income replacement along with the Family Violence Leave Act that offers 12 days of job protection for these reasons:

1.    To seek medical care or psychological or other counseling for physical or psychological injury or disability for the victim (survivor) 

2.    To obtain services from a victim services organization on behalf of the victim(survivor) 

3.    To move or relocate due to such family violence 

4.    To participate in any civil or criminal court proceeding related to or resulting from such family violence.

If you or someone you know is the victim of family, domestic or intimate partner violence the statewide 24-hour toll free # in English call 888-774-2900 for Spanish call 844-831-9200.

If you are in danger, please call 9-1-1.

For more information about interval house:  intervalhousect.org or call (860) 246-9149.

For information or to apply for benefits go to CT Paid Leave.org

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Transcript

Nancy Barrow: 0:01

Hello, Connecticut and welcome to the paid leave podcast. The title basically says it all. I'm Nancy Barrow and I will be delving into this new state program and how it can help you and your family. This podcast will give you information you should know about Connecticut paid leave, and maybe just a little bit more. Connecticut paid leave brings peace of mind to your home, family and workplace. Welcome to the paid leave podcast. October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Domestic violence affects everyone from every socio-economic and cultural, ethnic, gender and racial background. And whether you call it family violence or domestic violence or intimate partner violence, it's a really serious problem in Connecticut. There was a report out this week that said shelters have been housing victims at 150% of their capacity, and organizations have had to even find hotel rooms to help address the lack of space. And that's because reports of domestic violence spiked during COVID and continue to grow long after the lock downs have been lifted. In Connecticut 1/3 of all criminal court cases involve domestic violence. The family violence provisions that Connecticut paid leave offers to eligible workers in Connecticut includes 12 days of income replacement, along with the family violence Leave Act that offers 12 days of job protection for these reasons to seek medical care or psychological or other counseling for physical or psychological injury or disability for the victim, to obtain services for a victim services organization on behalf of the victim to move or relocate due to such family violence, and to participate in any civil or criminal court proceeding Relating to or resulting from such family violence. And joining me to talk about navigating the court system is Jennifer Lopez not the singer. She is the Director of court advocacy programs for interval house in Hartford. Jennifer's work for about 30 years on behalf of domestic violence victims in the court systems, both in criminal and civil proceedings. Welcome to the podcast, Jennifer.

Jennifer Lopez: 2:07

Thank you, Nancy, thank

Nancy Barrow: 2:08

you so much for being here. We have Jane Doe also joining. She's a domestic violence survivor who has gone through both the criminal and the civil proceedings, and is still immersed in the courts. So we can't really get into too many specifics about her case. But thanks for being on the podcast.

Jane Doe: 2:23

Happy to be here.

Nancy Barrow: 2:24

Well, Jennifer, tell me a little bit about what makes interval house so special.

Jennifer Lopez: 2:29

Well, we have a very special with a largest domestic violence program in the state of Connecticut. And that's because we cover Hartford and 23 towns surrounding Hartford, we have the largest volume of clients coming through the criminal court process. And as well as have the largest amount of police departments that we collaborate with. So we actually very comprehensive services, all information that we share is free and confidential. We don't judge anyone we encourage people to call us and what is it I also want to say about animal house that we're really dedicated to ending domestic violence. We know maybe that will never happen. But we're going to fight as much as we can to make sure that we give it a try.

Nancy Barrow: 3:08

You know, I know that COVID really was sort of an instigator, right for at least the reports, and there was a lot more reports of domestic violence during COVID. Because everybody was home. And that's a dangerous place sometimes. But it's still continuing now. I mean, everything is full capacity. Why do you think that it is now at this point where the shelters are all full,

Jennifer Lopez: 3:31

I think, you know, when COVID hit, you read a lot of the victims and survivors were home. It was one more stress that added to what was going on already, the safety concerns became worse because they were home with the abuser, some of them. And I think that there was such a long period of time between when he started and now where in criminal court that were cases that were dormant, there was nothing going on the civil court process kind of stopped. So now this past year is whenever you got it opened up. And we had a floodgates coming in of cases that were kind of just been dormant. And to be honest, I think we're still trying to catch up a little bit. We had victims calling for updates. We didn't have them. You know, we have victims calling saying I call the police, they didn't make an arrest because they were told, you know, to limit the arrest because they were overloaded in the prisons. So a lot of things kind of went still for a couple of years. And now we're just kind of getting back to what we can call it a bit of a norm for victims. They're still afraid, you know, COVID is not really gone. And there's a lot of things that they're dealing with that they couldn't deal with in those two years that COVID was here. You know, I just want to say an example was we we have support groups for for survivors, which we're very proud of. And we didn't have them during COVID. We didn't want to let them go. So we tried doing virtual support groups we tried to do with phone calls. And we found that it was very challenging because the kids were home. If you go out of the house, you might be able to get a babysitter or when you're home Um, you are their babysitter, and we had a really hard time having survivors concentrate on the support groups when the kids were running around. Yeah, they couldn't participate in the support groups, nobody really thought of that dynamic, you would think that the virtual might work. And we thought it might be easier, maybe more comfortable. It was the end of the summer, the abusers were home. I also want to make a disclaimer, in my language, talking about victims, I will use the pronoun she and her because the reality is most of the victims that I work with, and survivors are women being abused by men, not to say that men are not abused, we provide services as well. But the majority of victims we work with are women.

Nancy Barrow: 5:36

And also with it with the LGBTQ absolutely loves community, you're you're dealing with a lot of different kinds of relationships as well. How many civil and criminal proceedings do you cover with interval house? I mean, I know that you have court advocates

Jennifer Lopez: 5:52

last year in the criminal courts, we deal with more than 4000 victims. in Hartford court on a Monday, when you're in the criminal court, they can get anywhere between 10 to 30 cases, because of the weekend, throughout the week, at least five to 10 a day. And in the month easy over 100. We have victim advocates that are so busy, that are usually trying to, you know catch up the next day, you know not to say that we don't take the time with the survivors to provide information and the support. But it's a huge challenge because of the volume of clients that we get in the criminal court process. Even though complicated and scary. It's a little bit quicker than the family court process that can take on years and years and years, because it's very difficult when a victim is going into family court to be identified as the victim, therefore, seeing the dynamics between an abuser and a victim. They're kind of assessed equally. So the time in the Family Court is a lot longer. The number

Nancy Barrow: 6:52

like when you say longer, how much like I know that it's not a one and done. Right. Oh, usually it's never one and done. Right.

Jennifer Lopez: 6:59

You know, and that's because in the criminal court is the only place within the systems and most of my work are within the systems law enforcement, criminal court immigration court housing in the criminal court is the only place that you're identified as a victim. And I hate to use the word victim. Yeah, you want a survivor, survivor, but the statistics and the language it's a victim. So he identifies the victim by an arrest. So in criminal court is the only place that you have an actual victim identified, not nowhere else, not in housing court, not in the family court, only in the criminal court. So again, when you walk into the family court, you're not technically a victim. He says he said she said situation. In the criminal court, somebody said that you've committed a crime this already an allegation. Yeah, that's a victim and offender. In the family court. You're there isn't. There could be criminal case pending, but you're not in the same court you're not in a different court. So victims and survivors struggle throughout the process to tell their story and be understood. And and understand that there's different dynamics there. There's fear, there might be retaliation, there'd be so many different things that if you don't understand the dynamics between a victim and an abuser, and a lot of that can be a lot of things that can go wrong with the process. Yeah. And their response to victims.

Nancy Barrow: 8:17

So I know in the criminal court, you get a protective order. And in the civil court, you get a restraining order. Yes. Can you tell me the difference between what those two things are? Are they different?

Jennifer Lopez: 8:27

Thank you for asking that. This latter restraining order protective order language out there, the most common are the criminal protective orders and restraining orders. And the differences that are laid the protective order there has to be an arrest to get one they have police has to be involved, there has to be an arrest. When you process to the court, you have an option to get one. However, you are going to get one in the criminal court. But you have a choice as to what level of protective order you get, you can get a no contact order, no contact whatsoever. No phone calls, no emails, not even saying hello on the street. That could be a partial where you can talk to the victim or you can be abusive to the victim. And there's also the staying away from the house, you can have a contact with the victim or survivor anywhere on the street, anywhere she is but she cannot come we cannot come to the home. You could also include the children. If the children are involved in the incident, the arrest took place, however for the and they will surely last as long as the case is pending. However, in the family court for the restraining order something that you applied for, you actually go to court to the application, get a hearing in two weeks. And you go to court until the judge your story of what happened and hopefully the judge will understand and give you the restraining order. If they do it's good for a year. You could also include the children and get temporary custody of your children through the restraining order process. You cannot do that with a protective order process. So you might have a victim has a protective order. Who wants to include her children, so she might go have to apply for a restraining order as well as well have

Nancy Barrow: 9:56

both and get custody exactly because custody is in this Civil Court. Yes. And so as divorce, yes. Okay. Are those also court cases that you if it is in regards to the domestic violence issue? Do you accompany them to those as well?

Jennifer Lopez: 10:12

Yeah, we actually happen to have two full time advocates in the family court in Hartford. And they do walk ins. So anytime a victim walks in, to get a restraining order. They are there to help with information. A lot of people seem to think that stepping out to get a restraining order, get a divorce, or call the police is the safe way to go. Yeah, sometimes this opens the gates to retaliation. So it's not so easy to a victim or survivor to call the police and think, Okay, I'm gonna be okay. They do it in a minute of eliminate of crisis, because they want to be okay. And what happens very often is that they break the golden rule. They told somebody, and now this retaliation or possible retaliation, that means that walking into the court is scary. You know, talking to people, it's scary. So the victim, I'm expected to support and do safety planning with the victims in the family court. And in the family court, whether restraining orders it could lead to possible custody, long term and a divorce process. But there are two totally separate court they are two.

Nancy Barrow: 11:17

Okay. And Jane, how did you navigate through these two courts? Because you went to both courts?

Jane Doe: 11:25

I did. And I just want to say the reason why I said I was happy to be here is because I'm a survivor. And unfortunately, there are not survivors. And when I went to the court, to go along with your question, I got to meet with the victims advocate. So the first thing you want to do when you get there is put your name on that signup sheet, meet with that victims advocate for criminal and for family. And I know one day I went there and one of the victims advocates was crying and I said, are you okay? She said one of my or one of victims, one of the victims advocate was crying because one of the victims that she knew in Harford that got shot in the head had died. And you realize how close to home it is. And you realize that these people that are helping us. They know the people that you hear on the news.

Nancy Barrow: 12:04

And how did they help you get through the courts? Because that's really intimidating. I would imagine going into a court and facing your abuser, how do they help you?

Jane Doe: 12:13

They sat behind me. And I remember who I was before I got an attorney because like, Jennifer, I just mentioned, you don't want to break the golden rule. You don't want to get an attorney. So you go in blind and you're like, I'll be fine. And they helped navigate it. They encourage you, they tell you about the resources that are available to you. And they say listen, you're not alone. And we're right here. And sometimes it's just looking behind you and knowing that person has your back literally.

Nancy Barrow: 12:41

Yeah. And I know that there's a stigma still attached to being a survivor, slash victim, because that, you know, when they use that language in the court, you feel like that I'm sure. How has that stigma affected you

Jane Doe: 12:56

therapy. So therapy is really important. And I actually had a quote that my therapist had said to me, she said, you know, at one time you had forgot to love yourself. And it's it's not that you forgot, it's that you were told that you shouldn't love yourself. And it's because you don't know who yourself is anymore. And so with therapy with the support groups that Jennifer mentioned, you know, there's one in Manchester on Wednesdays, there's one in Hartford on Tuesdays, you'll go and you will be scared. But then you're like, wow, and you start recognizing and now it starts helping your emotional feelings in your wellness and actually, is it scary, But it's the best thing.

Nancy Barrow: 13:32

How are you? And where are you in the court system? Are you done with criminal

Jane Doe: 13:37

now? Probably in a couple of weeks, we hope to be done with criminal. They're still family, they're still divorce. You know, people say to me, why don't you sleep at night? Because you're, you are a survivor, but you're still a victim. So there's a lot of things that keep you up at night.

Nancy Barrow: 13:57

Yeah, so you're having trouble still sleeping? Oh, yeah.

Jane Doe: 14:00

And it's hard because I'm third generation. And you just have to say to yourself, like, you've got to stop and people say, Well, I don't understand why you didn't call 911. And why did the cops come and why didn't you say anything? It's because of that trauma bond that person has made you feel like you can't be without them. And in my instance, we both worked remote. We both were home. So that abuse was happening from day to night. And it was emotional. And then it turned physical.

Jennifer Lopez: 14:27

And I thank you so much for being here. Yeah,

Nancy Barrow: 14:30

we really sure does take a lot of courage because you're going to help somebody else. And that's what's really important. You're going to help another person going through this. Absolutely. So does it usually go from emotional to physical or does it there's no norm

Jennifer Lopez: 14:43

for what I've noticed, there's patterns. And I've worked. I've done this work for 35 years, and I've stood next to survivors for hours in court. We have left the building, sometimes crying and sometimes happy that we got custody after five years of fighting in court. But I want to clarify, sometimes the first sign that you don't even see is the charm, you know, you first meet them and they're their best in the world, you know, you don't go out on a date with an abuser, he tells you, I'm going to beat you, you know, and I'm going to control you, you wouldn't go on a second date, which. So they're very charming. And then the control begins very slowly, you don't realize it, you know why you're going with your friends this weekend, he used to support your relationship with your friends, now he doesn't. Why are you wearing a short skirt, you know why you want to work, you know, so early in the morning and getting home so late. So it's very subtle. And the next thing you know, you have that investment in the relationship. Now there's emotions and feelings, maybe children, maybe your connection that you're really strong about. And it's really hard to walk away from that. You know, and I really feel people ask me very often, and I don't even like the question, Why do women stay? That's the question, right? It really, I don't think so offensive. It really is offensive. And I don't like it. But I want to address it. Because I think the question should be why does he batter? Why does he do what he does know why she stays? You know, and the reason I say that is because I realized throughout the years is three common reasons that I've seen. One of them's lack of support and resources. Two is the hope of change. We all want the relationship to continue, but in a healthy way. We don't want it to be abusive. So the hope that is going to change might keep us another week. And another week, then the fear of retaliation settles in. So when I have the lack of support, the hope to change. And the fear retaliation. So yeah, a lot of women victims, they stay. Not because they like it, I want to throw that out. Not, because they're weak. You know, I have to say, survivors are strong, they're survive every single day. They get up in the morning, they go to work to take care of their children, you know, they hold a job together, they deal with DCF. Sometimes they deal with the court criminal throw in immigration issues. So there's an awful lot going on. And the dynamics, as I see the patterns is the charm, the emotional abuse that goes into the physical, although I've seen relationships that start with the physical. Yeah, right, immediately. And there's no respite in between, it's usually just abuse, abuse. And there's others that never touched the victim and survivor,

Nancy Barrow: 17:27

right? They look, yeah, or it's that control financial or whatever kind of control it is, it's it's an issue of

Jennifer Lopez: 17:34

actually, thank you for mentioning that there's many types of abuse, there are control, emotional, financial, sexual abuse. I think the most common that I've seen, however, is the emotional abuse,

Jane Doe: 17:45

I was gonna say, and something I learned was lockout. And that's another form of abuse. And so that emotional and that trauma, cuz you're like you don't understand. And who do you tell? Because you can't, because there's a golden rule, you don't want to break the golden rule. And there's

Nancy Barrow: 18:01

fear to like, leaving isn't always the safest choice. Right? And how do you negotiate that because you really have to have a plan.

Jennifer Lopez: 18:08

When I started doing this work, a long time ago, I thought I was gonna come in, convince every survivor to leave, come to the safe house and everything was going to be great. Yeah, I'll learn very quickly, that was not my choice to make. And there is a lot of consequences that can come with that. The answer to leave is not always the answer to be saved in that moment. You know, there's a lot of safety plan that you can do. We work with many of survivors that call us and they don't want to leave you they're not ready. Remember, they want the violence to end. They don't want the relationship to end. So sometimes that hope, you know, they stay. But there's a lot of situations where the choice for family members or friends, they think that calling the police is going to do it getting a restraining, or is going to do it. And I wanted to mention very quickly, the the number one reason for lethality and domestic violence is when they're trying to leave, you know, when I have a survivor that I'm working with, and she said, I'm going to tell him I'm leaving. So no, don't do that. Let's do some safety planning before you do that. Because that feeling of I'm losing control over you can turn into I'm going to punish you for leaving, and that can turn into a lethality situation. So it's not always the answer to call the cops, you're going to be okay, get a divorce that you're going to be okay. There's got to be other dynamics that go into that safety planning support. So you can do that safely. Because leaving is not always the answer to safety. Safety planning is the answer to safety. And that can happen when you're in the relationship. And when you leave the relationship.

Nancy Barrow: 19:43

It's a complicated situation. And I think when you're in the court system, right and you're asking for restraining orders, that can be scary too. Is that always the best answer or protective orders? Are they always the best answer or can that even instigate retaliation,

Jennifer Lopez: 19:58

that can instigate retaliation, because we now challenging their control. And you know, what I find very often is that, and this is something that I've learned because of my experience is that when a survivor leaves such as the situation, and a lot of times the abuser has gotten her back so many times, statistically, over 10 times it takes for a victim to actually leave and not come back. Because every time they leave, they tried to sort of make that a little bit better. So when that happens, I think very often there have that hope that I'm going to talk her into coming back, she's going to come back, I'm gonna go to counseling, and she's going to be coming back, when they realize they're not coming back. That turns from one her back to punish and her for leaving. That was when it becomes very, very dangerous, very

Nancy Barrow: 20:45

dangerous. And that's the other scary part going to court. I feel like they get re victimized when they have to go into court and see their abuser. But is it also taking some power back? Did that happen to you, Jane, did you feel powerful when you did get to go to court and face him?

Jane Doe: 21:02

I did, because it was accountability. And now he's accountable. And just to go along with what she said, You really need to have a plan because the day he got arrested, I was trying to get into my car to leave. And that's when it happened. You need to have you, it's just have to think you have to be five steps ahead of them. Not one, five, maybe more. But yeah, accountability is what gave me ease. And over time going in the court system, I almost had to act like he wasn't there. I mean, just look at my lawyer, look at my , the victims advocate. And that was it.

Jennifer Lopez: 21:35

And I want to add to that, sometimes when you talk to survivors, and you say, you talk about options, there's a lot of different responses that you might have, depending on whether at I've gotten survivor, she said, I'm gonna leave right now, you know, I'm going into the safe house, I've worked with survivors for three or four years on a work, plan into what they're going to do and when to leave, are they going to get divorced, I worked with another victim for three years until she finally said, I'm filing the divorce. And I remember meeting with her. And I laughed a little bit because every time I meet with her, we went over the same information over and over and over again for about three years. But she just wasn't ready, you know, for those three years. So that decision is not again for us to make or was to push a victim in the door, anything she doesn't want. Because she knows survivor know the situation so much better than we do. And we have to trust that. So if a victim says to me, and I really use hate to use the word victim inside of a habit of working in the system in

Nancy Barrow: 22:30

the system, that's interesting. Like, you know, maybe that will be another legislative push, I know that you guys do a lot of advocacy. And literally, maybe you can get the language changes

Jennifer Lopez: 22:40

to to survive. Absolutely. And as you move around, they also, you know, perpetrator, abuser, offender. But again, I want to say that, that that choice to do anything in the relationship. It's up to the survivor to make Yeah, to us for making because the consequences are big. I also want to add around consequences. There's a lot of consequences that can happen. Every system nowadays has some kind of process around domestic violence. When I first started working, there was nothing. Nothing. I mean, we're talking 35 years ago, right? So there was really nothing the police to be honest, we take the individuals out for a walk and bring him back home. They really wasn't that many arrests around domestic violence back in the day when I started. Now, there's domestic violence units in almost every police department, probation in the courts, within the DV program. So they're the domestic violence unit. It's just it's just a recognition that there's something that we need to be doing more than just, you know, that arrest and

Nancy Barrow: 23:37

there's police are getting educated too, because yes, I know a lot of people, there's dual arrests, are they effective? Are they not effective? And are there laws in place that are starting to change those?

Jennifer Lopez: 23:49

Oh, sure. Thinking about that. On the way here. The year when I first started doing the work. It was pretty typical of a dual arrest on there weren't too many questions asked where they couldn't figure the situation, they will just arrest everybody thinking that they will be taken care of in court. The problem with that is that if you have a survivor, calling the police, maybe for the first time to get help, and now you get arrested, what are the chances of her calling again? Yeah, exactly. Because you're fearful that that's going to happen. So it's a huge deterrent for victims to seek help when they need it. And that's something that can turn lethal to me as a biggest consequence of the dual arrest. The other thing is with a dual arrest is that when you make a dual arrest, you have two victims and two defendants. So when the case gets to the court process, you're dealing with two victims. Two defendants is sort of a lose lose in a way because you have a victim get arrested. And you have now I have an abuser maybe getting services and the prosecutors you know, when I work with them closely, they try to figure things out and they do the best that they can. But sometimes abusers can be very convincing. And they sometimes I think they drive the process a little bit with the manipulation in court and the line and I didn't do it, It's all her fault. She's crazy. She's an alcoholic, she's, you know, she's cheating on me. And, and it becomes about, you know, justifiable violence, which is something that we don't want to hear. And we have awesome prosecutors in Hartford and all over the state, we have awesome judges across the state, I have to say that, you know, there's really good people doing the work, but it's others who don't sometimes get it, you know, not because maybe they don't care. Maybe they don't have the education, maybe they don't have the open mind they need to have. But I have to say that accountability in the process criminal and the family court, it takes more than an individual, I think it takes law enforcement and the prosecutors and the victim advocates and the attorneys to really work together.

Jane Doe: 25:50

I'm glad that you mentioned that, because there's a friend of mine, who is a police officer, and I was talking to many amazing friends that were helping try to guide you know, they couldn't make the decision for me, but I called her and I said, hypothetically speaking, never said it was me. What are the chances that that he will change? It'll get better, he'll get therapy? And she said, So how's it going? And I said, What do you mean, she's like, come on. And she said, yours is classic. It's gone from verbal to physical to monitoring where you go to, you know, and so I think at the end of the day, the police having more and more education on it helps the survivors helps the victims become survivors.

Nancy Barrow: 26:33

Did you have to go through a dual arrest? And what was that like?

Jane Doe: 26:37

Well, it was awful. Because I remember that day without going into detail. And I ended up pushing a couple days later. And he said he really should have been arrested. And my mom was not too far away. She knew what's going on, she was upset. She was like, Oh my gosh, I feel like my mother felt like she was reliving her life when she was dealing with it. And I remember going into the police station, and they said we had to do a dual arrest. But I want you to know, we arrested him first. Because we know he's going to hurt you. We don't want him to hurt you. And now, like she had mentioned the use it say, Well, if you want me to let you go, and you gotta let me go. And so they know how to manipulate the system. And that's, that's trying and that's stressful, because you know, you think you're doing the right thing. And you try to push that you have that voice like I'm gonna let the cops know now. And that voice goes, sorry, you're both dual.

Jennifer Lopez: 27:29

And with law enforcement, I don't I also want to throw out there that doesn't look great officers that do a great job Are they real, are amazing. And sometimes they walk into situation when they there's just chaos going on. And, and fear and, and just a lot going on. So I think they have to make a decision quickly. So I can see sometimes dual, dual arrest happening. So I think the primary aggressor laws were really, really something that was needed to happen. It's a matter of fact that if if they can't figure out who the primary aggressor is, they can actually write a report to the prosecutor, before they make an arrest to figure that out. And if the prosecutor can say, You know what, I think this person is the aggressor, they can go back and file it, but the warrant for that person that was not in place back in the day,

Jane Doe: 28:15

and that's what was in my favor, as the police officer said, listen, we're gonna write something to the judge. And so we went to the judge immediately, like, you're gonna get granted, you know, a full restraining order, he needs to stay there, and you can stay in your home. And that was that was very critical, important. And in my instance, because another form of abuse is finances. So they'll take your money. And I remember I said, Mom, I can't believe this happen. How can I afford an attorney now that he's done this? And she said, I've had this for you. She said,I've been you, Gramma did this for me, I'm doing this for you. She says, but I need you to break this and you should break what's happening in don't let her ever happen again, as a promise. And that made me think of like Jane Doe No more, you know, and how we can get more voice elevating so that we can stop this from continuing to happen.

Nancy Barrow: 29:05

You heard me explain what Connecticut paid leave offers up to 12 weeks of 12 days of income replacement, and appearing in criminal or civil court is one of the reasons to get Connecticut paid leave. How important is a program like this while you're navigating the court system? And if you don't have an employer who will be kind enough to give you time off for this instance? How important are the services?

Jennifer Lopez: 29:31

Amazing. I have known survivors throughout the years that have lost their jobs, because of so many court dates. You know, we have advocates that will advocate on your behalf throughout the systems. But there's very often times that victims have to come to court. Most of the system's response to domestic violence survivor, sometimes it's not the right one. So if you're involved in a family court case divorce, that sometimes could be continuance after continuance after continuance when y ou walk into a family court for anything, you might be there from nine o'clock until five o'clock, that's seven hours for the day. If you do that four times a month. So it can be very overwhelming when it comes to time, the criminal court process as well. Even if you do housing, so the time required to be in court, sometimes is something that you have no control over that you have to be the if you want to have an outcome that you want, participation is important. So what happens is that you might have an employee who might be sensitive to your issue and say, Okay, you can take a couple of hours off, and you have employees who maybe want to be but just can't. So when you miss a few days from work, your job is in jeopardy, now you have a survivor who's not just worried now about the domestic violence, the court process, now I can lose my job. So that person navigating the system, having those concerns behind, you know, sort of in their brain thinking about is very stressful, either as to their fear, it adds to sometimes their safety plan, because my safety plan is to maybe, you know, talk to my employer and be out for the day, and maybe I was told no, and now my safety plan has to change. So it is crucial for the public to know about the, you know, the paid leave. And I think it's a great option for survivors to have.

Nancy Barrow: 31:17

And it's great to because it's flexible, right? So you can take it in, you can take it as a day. Or if you are going just for the afternoon, you can take a few hours, it's intermittent, or it's reduced schedule, there's a flexibility with time, so you don't have to take it all at one block. There's, there's, you know, so you can go. And listen, we all wish that it was more than 12 days, right? But yeah, it 12 days can really make the difference of keeping your job or losing your job.

Jennifer Lopez: 31:44

So I think it's a great option.

Jane Doe: 31:45

It's life saving, literally because of financial perspective. Because you're you're constantly thinking of every bill, every dollar everything and to know you have that as an alternate resource that if for some reason you exhaust your vacation time, your personal time off. I mean, I look at my situation where I've been in court three or four times a week is very helpful, very beneficial to myself and others.

Nancy Barrow: 32:08

Give me some advice, Jane, what what advice would you give women who might be listening and just in the beginning of it?

Jane Doe: 32:16

One, you're not the problem. Two, there are resources. Three, you will be able to get through this. And for you're not alone. The fifth one I would say is forgive yourself. Because sometimes we hold this accountability. And we have to forgive ourselves. Everyone's like well, forgive that person, nope forgive yourself, and then move forward.

Jennifer Lopez: 32:43

If I can add to that, I think one of the things that I that I've heard throughout the years with people that I've worked with, is that there's a certain feeling of if I have done something different, right, it's

Nancy Barrow: 32:54

my fault, it's I'm guilty. If I only did something

Jennifer Lopez: 32:58

If I had just come home earlier from work, different, absolutely. that would have happened. And usually what happens is is not just once is often, often often and I've seen many survivors go into relationship, feeling very confident, good about themselves. And when you hear every day, you're no good, you're worthless, you start to feel unbelief, that and you feel less powerful. And, and I really, really love what you said, you know, you have to love yourself. It isn't your fault. The violence in general is not. It's never justified in any situation, not just in a family violence situation, you can't go around hitting and abusing people. So you have to realize that that is not it's not something that you should do. And I also want to say that there are services available for people who are abusive, you know, if abusers continue to abuse and be violent, there's always going to be the need for services. And we're always going to have survivors people have being hurt. So I think that if you're out there and you're listening to this, and you feel that you're somebody who is being abusive for controlling, get help, there is help out there as well. So that you are able to stop that. You know that behavior, but for victims of domestic violence and survivors, I think that you're strong, you'r e amazing. It's not your fault. And you're right you will get through this.

Nancy Barrow: 34:19

Jennifer Lopez, the director of court advocacy programs for interval house, thank you so much for your expertise with the court systems, you do such important work. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. And I wish you the very best Jane, I hope you get stronger and stronger every day in your recovery and good luck with your continued court cases. Thank you. If you know someone who is a victim of family or intimate partner violence, here is the statewide 24 hour toll free number to call to talk to someone or just to get some help in English you can call 888-774-2900 and for Spanish, you can call 844-831-9200 If you are in danger, please call 911. For information about interval house, you can go to interval house ct.org or call 860-246-9149. For information or to apply for benefits go to CTP leave.org. This has been another edition of the paid leave podcast. Please like and subscribe so you'll be notified about new podcasts that become available. Connecticut paid leave is a public act with a personal purpose. I'm Nancy Barrow and thanks for listening