The Silent Majority: Slovakia's Space Ambitions Among Non-Launch Nations

Guest: Michal Brichta, Director of the Slovak Space Organization Industry Branch

In this episode (#110) of the Space Cafe Podcast, Markus delves into Slovakia's space ambitions with Michal Brichta. They discuss Slovakia's role in the global space community, the importance of non-traditional space actors, and the challenges and opportunities faced by smaller nations in the space industry.

Guest Background:
Michal Brichta leads the Slovak Space Organization Industry Branch, driving Slovakia's initiatives in the space sector.

Episode Highlights:

Introduction:

• Disparity in spacefaring capabilities among nations
• Importance of including non-traditional spacefaring nations

Slovakia's Space Ambitions:

• Michal Brichta's role and Slovakia’s potential
• Contributions of non-traditional space actors

Evolving Space Perspectives:

• Gradual transition to becoming an interplanetary species
• Slovakia’s inclusive space strategy

Challenges and Opportunities:

• Importance of international collaborations
• Role of education in fostering space industry talent

Achievements and Future Goals:

• Slovakia’s associate membership with ESA
• Future goals and visions for Slovakia's space sector

Notable Quotes:

On the Role of Small Nations in Space:

"Small nations like Slovakia have a unique perspective and can offer innovative solutions that might be overlooked by larger, more established spacefaring countries."

On Education and Talent Development:

"Investing in education and nurturing local talent is crucial for Slovakia to build a sustainable and competitive space sector."

On International Collaborations:

"Collaborations with international partners are essential. They not only bring in expertise and resources but also open up new opportunities for Slovakia in the global space market."

On Slovakia’s Membership in ESA:

"Becoming an associate member of the European Space Agency is a significant milestone for Slovakia, marking our commitment and capability to contribute to the broader space community."

On Future Goals:

"Our vision is bold. We aim to position Slovakia as a key player in the space industry, leveraging our strengths and building on our achievements to reach new heights."

Additional Resources: 

·       Slovak Space Organization

·       European Space Agency (ESA)

·       United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs (UNOOSA)

·       International Space University (ISU)

·       Listen to Michal's music choice for the space travel playlist: Karol Duchoň - "V dolinách" on https://open.spotify.com/intl-de/track/7pR

You can find us on Spotify and Apple Podcast!

Please visit us at SpaceWatch.Global, subscribe to our newsletters. Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter!

Transcript

[00:00:00] ​

[00:00:00]

[00:00:00] Markus: Hello everyone, this is Space Cafe Podcast, and I'm Markus.

[00:00:09] Our daily media diet paints a picture, but not necessarily representing reality as it is. Like this one, for example. Out of our planet's 195 sovereign countries, fewer than 20 can independently launch humans or cargo into space. Still, we're considering the time we live in, the Space Age. But just remember, it's just 20 years.

[00:00:53] Countries were able to independently launch something into orbit. So in the global space arena, it's crucial to recognize that disparity, that the majority of players aren't traditionally spacefaring nations, 175 nations to be precise, an overwhelming majority without direct space access. However, this numerical disparity doesn't diminish their importance.

[00:01:23] As we enter a new era of space exploration, these non spacefaring countries represent a critical and often overlooked majority. Their perspectives, needs, and potential contributions are just as vital to shaping the future of space activities as those of the established space powers.

[00:01:45] We are in a period where space is increasingly significant for all nations, regardless of their launch capabilities. It would be a waste of potential to not listen to such voices. and [00:02:00] ensure that they have a place at the table in global space discussions and initiatives.

[00:02:07] It wasn't easy to pick one from those 175 nations, so I picked our neighboring nation, my neighboring nation, neighboring like a literal stone throw away from my hometown, Vienna.

[00:02:25] Yeah, it's literally an hour to get to the other side, to Bratislava, the capital of Slovakia. in, it's a small country with just 5 million people. And this small country exemplifies how non traditional space actors can make meaningful contributions to the space age. To discuss Slovakia's space ambitions and the broader implications for other nations in similar positions, we're joined today by Michael Brichta, Director of the Slovak Space Organization Industry Branch.

[00:03:01] My friends, please welcome our guest. Let's go. No, it makes, it makes perfect sense to me. In fact, just a couple of weeks ago, I was speaking at one IT conference here in Bratislava. It's one of the largest annual IT gathering. And I was thinking before how to pitch space to, to the programmers, to software developers. And I basically explained to them that this is nothing more and nothing less than just new environment.

[00:03:37] Michal: Uh, where we can, uh, act and work and, uh, simple be us, be humans. So broadening the horizon to, to completely new, uh, place of, of activity. So just like when, uh, Uh, a couple hundreds years ago, we managed to overcome the distance of the oceans and, uh, we [00:04:00] managed to, uh, basically connect the globe through the vast oceans.

[00:04:05] And just a couple of hundreds years after we managed to, to take off to, uh, make sure that we can, uh, we can, uh, tackle the gravitation and. Just a couple of dozen more years and we were out of the Earth atmosphere. So this was something that really struck them how fast we are actually moving forward with the technology development.

[00:04:35] And, uh, understanding that, uh, that space is basically space, it's, it's literally the space where, where we can, uh, now, uh, start, uh, broadening our horizon and, and bringing the activities that we were used to do on Earth. It's something that shows them that, uh, alright, that's, that's, if, if we are, uh, needing, uh, software developers here on Earth, then sooner or later we will need pretty much the same thing, uh, also, also in space. 

[00:05:03] Markus: question,

[00:05:03] Michal: essential question, The main part of what I was discussing with the IT folks, with the software developers was to show them what is the Uh, diversity of data, uh, which is available for them and how they can use it and, uh, where this data is being actually applied on a daily basis without many people knowing, without, without us, uh, actually realizing because it turned out to be into something so, uh, ordinary and, and, uh, well, normal without, without, uh, understanding, uh, for most of the people without understanding the source of the data.

[00:05:46] And it's actually pretty It's obvious or it's, it's, uh, um, understandable because, uh, the daily user, they don't need to know necessarily the sort of [00:06:00] data or they, they don't really, really, really, yeah, they don't really care about the source of the data. They care about the solution itself and it's that it's working, that it's doing what it's supposed to do.

[00:06:12] So this is this is the perhaps one slight disadvantage when explaining the relevance of space technologies is that we are Already so much used to many of those that we do not think about the origin, we do not think about where does the solution or the data used in the solution come from.

[00:06:38] Markus: That is, that is fascinating already, because there is no, you could imagine there, we have that romantic perception that you are discovering something new, like discovering a new continent, a new country, a new island, and this is like from one day to the next. Things are changing, but it's not like that.

[00:06:56] It's a gradual transition into something. And now we're experiencing, we're in amidst that transition into becoming, I wouldn't say we're yet becoming an interplanetary species, but maybe we're at the very beginning, but we are widening, literally widening our horizon. So we have Sort of an understanding what the surface of the earth is all about, but now we're starting to look upward and that transition, that's the interesting thing.

[00:07:24] And, thank you for mentioning, um, and that's so, that's so nicely and inspiringly is happening gradually. It's not happening from one moment to the next. So, people, what we're observing is. It's becoming with every day that is passing, it's becoming just a habit. It's becoming the new normal. And there is not, not, that very moment where everything is different, where everything changes.

[00:07:49] That's the interesting thing about it. So it's, it's not, not very romantic. It's just what's happening on a daily basis. Um, 

[00:07:57] Michal: But if you, if we think about it this way, then [00:08:00] also. Conquering the horizons in the past was very similar because, yes, you had these large milestones like, uh, taking off the first time.

[00:08:10] So the first flight of the Wright Brothers, for example, that's, that's a milestone, but then actually to turn this new three dimensional space, the Earth above, above our ground, uh, turning this into an area of, uh, daily activities and turning it into area of economy. It was also gradual, gradual development.

[00:08:34] So, and, and, uh, we can go this way all for the, the very, uh, past, uh, ages and, uh, and centuries. So, uh, one part, what I also was mentioning to the software developers, a couple of years ago at the event was really the, the dynamism of, uh, or the dynamics of, uh, our. Uh, technological development. So if we think about it, we were, uh, walking species for thousands of years.

[00:09:05] We were basically living on, on the ground all, all, all the time. Then we learned how to maybe cross some small rivers. We learned how to cross some small lakes, but we were still, uh, most of our time spending on the ground. And then after thousands of years, we learned how to Cross an ocean. That was a game changer because it significantly broadened the horizon for the first time and That was this this this first milestone, which is somehow being recognized, but then it was about the small developments of turning these new vast areas of oceans into our areas of economic activity that they are now being part of the fishing industry, of transportation industry, of, uh, uh, [00:10:00] energy industry, et cetera.

[00:10:02] So, so this was also very, very step by step, uh, development. But then again, just a couple of hundreds years afterwards, we, we managed to, to take off. So again, we, uh, had the new three dimensional space, the air, uh, to turn into an area of our economic activity. And then just. A couple dozen more years and we were out of the Earth's atmosphere and now we are at this point that we are slowly step by step turning it from area of pushing the boundaries from area of exploration and from area of Pure curiosity and and science we are turning it into very Curiosity Comprehensive and complex area that it's combining these elements and it's still combining the unknown, the fascination, the science, the exploration, but We are, one piece at a time, we are adding some pragmatic elements to it connected to the economy and learning step by step new and new ways how to, in practical ways, utilize this knowledge and this capability of actually being in space and operating in space and we are turning it into action.

[00:11:24] Again, into area in and from which we can create added value for our daily lives and for how our economy and society works. 

[00:11:36] Markus: On a personal note, are you reminding yourself now and then? That this is an extremely exclusive and special moment or pocket in time that we are living in. at the moment. Because when we're thinking back to the explorers you were mentioning, we're, we know them from history class from school. But now we're [00:12:00] living in a similar moment, that history classes in the future will learn from and learn about and romanticize and whatnot.

[00:12:09] And this is the very moment that we're experiencing right now. So this is, this is I need to remind myself because I'm taking it so much for granted. But it's not, it's very special. How is that for you?

[00:12:25] Michal: You are absolutely right. So living in the moment, You necessarily do not appreciate or understand fully the consequences of the moment. So It's, it's probably always too early to judge the moment we will need some time, some, some distance to be able to, to comprehend how important, uh, the, uh, the moments, uh, or, or the actions that are being taken now also in space industry and, uh, in space research and development are so, uh, but, uh, it is definitely a time of, of, um, historic developments.

[00:13:04] I'm pretty sure about that. 

[00:13:07] Markus: Michael, you're the director of the Slovak Space Office.

[00:13:13] Tell me a little bit about your country. 

[00:13:16] Michal: Yes, so Slovakia is one of the smaller countries in Europe, so we are around five and a half million inhabitants.

[00:13:26] I think about 50, 000 square kilometers, so it's a bit smaller than Austria, but, uh, size wise, we could categorize it similar size, uh, range of countries. And, uh, speaking about space, so we are Definitely not newcomers, because already, as far as, uh, in, um, 70s, in the past, uh, century, uh, our scientists and researchers were part of, uh, international [00:14:00] missions, also involving the space hardware development.

[00:14:02] So this has been the, I would say, early days of, uh, the, uh, Space Hardware R& D in Slovakia. And this, uh, this knowledge and this experience and know how has been slowly growing and accumulating. Uh, uh, more, more recent examples are missions like CHUISE or Rosetta, or the large international missions of which our, uh, research and development, uh, uh, institutions are a part of, but what we are newer in is the.

[00:14:37] Um, more comprehensive, uh, approach to, to space sector development also from the economic perspective. So this is something that we started, uh, systematically working on, um, really, really recently or relatively recently, just a couple years ago. And we are now trying to, to utilize both, uh, Uh, Historic Heritage of our R& D, uh, area, uh, and at the same time, The, uh, industrial potential that is in the country, mainly focused and, uh, uh, concentrated in the high tech sectors and technology sectors, which are more traditional to our country, like hyper sized machinery, like electronics, uh, IT, uh, et cetera.

[00:15:30] Automotive is by the way, very strong sector in Slovakia. Uh, when somebody thinks about automotive, they, they. Most probably will think about cars like the final products of the industry, but with strong automotive sector, like for example in Slovakia, there are hundreds of smaller and larger companies being involved in the value chain and when you break it down, you realize that you have [00:16:00] quite a number of Uh, technologically very competent SMEs, for example, that have their R& D activities that have high potential and that you can Even bring to such a complex and technologically difficult, uh, sector as a space industry.

[00:16:18] So, so we are, we are working with the, this, let's say, full scope, uh, uh, of, uh, of the country's potential, especially since, as I mentioned, we are one of the smaller countries and we are one of the newer in the game. So our, our strategy or our approach is that we want to really. Utilize for this, this potential, wherever it comes from, whether it comes from the, this R& D heritage, whether it comes from the industry mix that we have, or it comes from the, the talent pool, uh, of, uh, young entrepreneurs and potential startups.

[00:16:52] So, uh, that's, that's, uh, uh, the, the full scope of, uh, the, the potential that we are 

[00:17:02] Markus: especially that smallness of your country is of high interest to me on this show, because you wouldn't connect small countries like Slovakia, like Austria, 

[00:17:20] um, 

[00:17:22] other countries, you name them, with the space industry, because space has usually been reserved so far for To larger nations, the usual suspects, we all know them. But it seems like now the underdogs, um, quote unquote underdogs, and I would assume that there is more very small countries in the world than big ones. So it's, it's maybe the majority. The underdogs are coming to the stage and, are also wanting to take their share or contribute their share also from this new [00:18:00] industry.

[00:18:01] So why do you think that is it? I mean, like, the space industry has been around, around for a while. Why is it

[00:18:09] now 

[00:18:10] the moment that those small nations like yours 

[00:18:14] are coming to the table?

[00:18:16] Michal: That's a, that's a question which is quite often asked. Being asked and, uh, I think it's a combination of factors that is, uh, enabling and motivating this, uh, increase of, uh, increase in interest. On one side, it's definitely about the growing market possibilities that the space sector is bringing, because if we look back in, again, in the history of space technology, the area was At the very beginnings of scientific and geopolitical interest mainly, so it was therefore the larger powers that were mostly focused on it.

[00:19:00] And as we are learning new and new ways how to utilize the space technology also in economic and other practical ways, it's creating motivation for also smaller countries which see it as a new area within their knowledge economy, for example, where their companies and their research organizations can be part of, and, uh, uh, something they can also, uh, bring some added value from and, uh, and, uh, something they can, they can take some, take some benefit from.

[00:19:42] So I would say that it's, it's on one side, this growth in, uh, Ways, in multiple ways how we can utilize the space technology and, and especially the growing economic potential space technology. And on the other side, it's [00:20:00] decreasing the cost of activity in space. But when we talk about, of course, the, the upstream part and, uh, the cost of access to space with, uh, hardware, uh, but also when it comes to, to downstream and broadening the range of, uh, satellite data, which are either free or which of come with, with some cost.

[00:20:22] But, uh, uh, with the growth of these markets, the cost is also decreasing. So. I would say it's a combination of the new motivating factors with the new enabling factors that is broadening the geography of what countries are interested in space technology. 

[00:20:45] Markus: hmm. 

[00:20:47] So the office, this Slovak space office has been around now for a

[00:20:53] couple 

[00:20:54] of years. It 

[00:20:54] was found in 2019, 

[00:20:57] right?

[00:20:58] Michal: So the Slovak Space Office, it's actually not a typical space office or space agency because it is not a separate legal entity. So it's a, it's a brand and a collaborative brand. project between two ministries here in Slovakia. Uh, it was, uh, created in 2021. Uh, but the date, the date you mentioned in 2019, that's the date when, uh, our agency, which is Slovak Investment and Trade Development Agency under Ministry of Economy, uh, where we started our space involvement.

[00:21:34] So back in 2019, uh, we. Understood, uh, on specific point, on specific point, we understood that, uh, space sector is a very interesting and promising new area where our companies is. Uh, could be involved, which they could benefit [00:22:00] from and which brings new possibilities, uh, for technological business. And it's also area where we have, uh, some good potential as a country, which is not yet being fully utilized.

[00:22:11] So, uh, we decided then to, to start our involvement in sector development. We, we started with tackling the, the key challenges that our sector was facing back then. Uh, which were two. One was the, the limited size. So in 2019 when we did some first, uh, uh, scanning of the, of this, it wasn't really an ecosystem then because ecosystem is, has some, some, um, uh, characteristics of being interconnected and, uh.

[00:22:45] Cooperating and interacting. So this was basically at the time more, uh, number of, of companies, a small number of companies and, and to research organizations that, uh, uh, that were doing some, some first activity in space. So back then there were. 20 companies active in this area, and we understood that in order for this to turn into a functioning, uh, innovation ecosystem, uh, this number needs to grow, uh, for it to allow, uh, synergies and collaboration opportunities between these stakeholders, because if you have very limited Number of dots to connect.

[00:23:24] It's very difficult to find dots that actually make sense to connect together. So we understood that the first challenge is really to crawl the ecosystem, so it's We get to the point of some critical mass that is already starting to generate some, some synergy. The second challenge was in the lack of awareness about our technological competencies abroad.

[00:23:48] So we started also with increasing this kind of awareness and supporting the internationalization of the activities of our company. In 2019, we started [00:24:00] these first activities, uh, aimed at, at first growing the ecosystem and then to, at, at, uh, connecting it internationally. And, uh, it, uh, it went, um, it went, uh, successful, uh, in a way that, uh, the, the ecosystem start growing nicely and also the, the interactions internationally increased.

[00:24:23] And in 2021, uh, this, uh, Uh, resulted, uh, in, uh, collaboration. Officially, uh, created between our institution, between our agency and Ministry of Education, which was the, and still is the main, uh, policy level stakeholder. So that, that, uh, is the reason of, of the, the Slovak State Office, uh, being this, in this collaborative, uh, format.

[00:24:54] And the colleagues at the Ministry of Education, Are in charge of the policy of the strategy, uh, coordination and coordination among the ministries in, in Slovakia, uh, depending on the, on the respon responsibilities of the ministries, they're in charge of the space budget and also of the, uh, multicultural commitments like ISA and uh, uh, space program of the new, et cetera.

[00:25:22] Whereas we are responsible for the implementation. We are in charge of the sector development, so we continue with those activities that I mentioned that were initiated in 2019, so we work on a comprehensive sector development ranging from supporting, uh, Uh, terrestrial technological companies, uh, involvement in space sector and their entry into sector, uh, supporting new startups being created, uh, from idea creation phase like hackathons through our incubation program and then helping them scale up, [00:26:00] uh, we work on, uh, the, uh, Uh, technology transfer support.

[00:26:05] So helping to link, uh, academia institutions with, uh, with, uh, industry and, but not least, also work with, uh, uh, the private investors and helping them to get connected in this growing ecosystem. So that's, that's one part. The second part of what we do is international collaboration. So we are, uh, involved in helping our.

[00:26:32] ecosystem to be internationally connected. So, uh, starting with the institutional level, um, building partnerships with our, uh, institutional counterparts like space offices and space agencies, uh, but also space industry associations and at the same time, uh, space industry. Uh, players, uh, as well, especially the, uh, European large system integrators or mid caps, uh, which are, uh, playing the key role in, uh, European space industry.

[00:27:06] And, uh, we are also involved in some of the. Uh, multilateral commitments, namely the European Space Agency, uh, and some of its, uh, uh, some of its bodies like the Council or the, uh, Industrialization Committee. And uh, then we are also involved actively in outreach activities. So if you Step back and look at the full picture.

[00:27:33] Basically, what we do is we grow the ecosystem, we help it get connected internationally, and we are making sure that the growing ecosystem has in the future also the necessary talent, uh, to further foster its growth. 

[00:27:52] Markus: all sounds like a well thought out plan. 

[00:27:55] Um, 

[00:27:57] sounds, sounds really very promising. Um, [00:28:00] is there a specific niche, or is it too early still? Or is there a niche that you could make out already that the Slovak space sector is focusing on or maybe developing on an international scale? Thank you. Or is a niche not so important?

[00:28:20] Michal: It is definitely important?

[00:28:22] and, uh, based on, again, the combination of our historic heritage, of our current industrial strength, and also the talent and the new entrepreneurial spirit, let's say, uh, Specific areas have profiled and, uh, are now, let's say, showing, showing the lead, uh, within the space sector, and these areas are mainly being reflected also by our selection of optional programs and European Space Agency as associate member.

[00:29:00] Uh, so these areas are, uh, Uh, the satellite hardware, so satellite components of, uh, uh, for me the categories like sensors or mechatronic components or some robotic components. Uh, then it's the observation, uh, namely in the applica on the application side. So a variety of, uh, ways of using, uh. Earth observation data, uh, in, uh, in, uh, um, broad spectrum of, uh, of sectors.

[00:29:34] And the last but not least is, uh, the area of space safety. So both the, uh, lower orbit, uh, tracking and also space weather, uh, related topics. So these, these are, these are the areas which I would say are traditionally already covered. Or that it's strong. And then, of course, there are also more new. Um, [00:30:00] emerging areas among the competences, like, uh, for example, the area of, uh, cybersecurity solutions for space or areas related to, uh, ground to, to satellite communication, areas related to biotechnologies, et cetera.

[00:30:21] Markus: Uh, We once had, um, an investor, a Finnish investor, 

[00:30:26] um, with a venture fund 

[00:30:29] that focuses mainly on the space sector, and we heard that 

[00:30:35] almost any kind of expertise and job profile 

[00:30:39] and company profile 

[00:30:40] is welcome in the space industry. Would you also subscribe to this from what you

[00:30:47] have seen 

[00:30:47] so far that the variety and the variation of disciplines that could be of interest or could get some interest in teaming up with the space sector 

[00:31:03] that 

[00:31:04] this is also 

[00:31:05] a 

[00:31:06] wide 

[00:31:07] range, a broad frequency spectrum of disciplines, which you do you also observe something similar?

[00:31:16] Michal: Yes, indeed. So, of course, we mostly think about jobs for space sector. Well, we most of the time think about these kinds of jobs as jobs for Uh, engineers and scientists, which to some extent, it's, it's still, uh, the majority of jobs needed, but there is a growing category, of course, of jobs, which are, for example, linked to business development.

[00:31:44] And From a practical observation point of view, uh, I, for example, see very often there is a lack of this kind of job, uh, and not like the lack of jobs, but the lack of people that [00:32:00] actually could could take up these challenges because very often the, uh, The startups that are being created, uh, in, in space, they are very often, uh, founded by, uh, technical experts, by engineers, and they reach a certain point of, of necessity of scaling up.

[00:32:19] And what they need is the business people to help them with that. And, and it's quite often that they are not that easily able to find, uh, Find set people. So we, we see growing need in, in this kind of, uh, expertise. We also see, of course, that the, the need in people that have, uh, uh, legal background. We see importance in people that have international relation background.

[00:32:45] We see importance in people that have the ground in public management or, or public policy from the government perspective. And we even see the necessity for people from the creative areas. So again, and practical, practical experience being with even as early stages as, for example, hackathons, where, where students are just learning how to do Uh, first activities with space technology, most of the time with, uh, with satellite data.

[00:33:20] And we often see that, uh, there is on very early stage, they understand that they also need people that have, uh, uh, some expertise in creative areas because they also need to, uh, have, uh, Uh, the potential product, uh, not just delivering, uh, the necessary data, but also, uh, it needs to deliver. The, uh, user friendly and it needs to be, uh, easily to work with and you, you need to, you need to already combine, not just the, uh, the technology aspect, but you also need to combine the aspect of, [00:34:00] uh, how to build a successful product.

[00:34:02] If it's especially, if it's a product which is aimed at, uh, at customers, So it's, it's, it's a B2C, uh, kind of, uh, venture, then. On very early stage, you, you figure out that, uh, you, you, you are not just enough with the team of, uh, of technical people and even just the business people, but you, you need quite a, quite a variety of profiles.

[00:34:28] Markus: So maybe 

[00:34:29] this 

[00:34:30] could also sound very inspiring, especially in times where the automotive industry, especially in, in Europe, is under lots of pressure 

[00:34:40] through That transition into a new, electric driven future. So 

[00:34:47] maybe 

[00:34:48] one could say that. We have an automotive branch in Austria also, so if there's challenges on the horizon, why not transition into space, um, 

[00:35:00] technologies if automotive doesn't work anymore, engineers, Could also transition into space because there's lots of interest and potential for new applications. Am I going too far with this? Because 

[00:35:15] the, 

[00:35:16] everything we hear is on the media, on a daily basis, 

[00:35:20] here 

[00:35:21] and there, there is layoffs, there is this and that going on, but maybe it's not so bad because, okay, maybe today I'm not.

[00:35:30] doing my engineering work for the automotive industry. Maybe tomorrow I'm going to do it for the space industry. So maybe this is a good moment in time where an entire new universe of new applications is opening up, 

[00:35:50] Michal: What I also already mentioned. So we were from the very beginning of our activities five years ago.

[00:35:58] Automotive for us was one of the [00:36:00] sectors that we were targeting as the entry sector and the potential door to space sector for certain companies that were in the value chain and which had The, uh, necessary R& D involvement and, uh, necessary level of, of, uh, technology complexity that they, they could, they could engage in.

[00:36:25] Of course, we need to, we need to understand that, uh. Automotive sector is a sector of mass production, so you have huge volumes, you have repetitive production, and it is a sector that employs large amounts of people. The current stage space industry is, of course, not in the level of demand that would create such a huge, um, Or necessity of, of such huge volumes being created and such repetitiveness right, right now. 

[00:37:07] Markus: except, except for Elon 

[00:37:08] Musk's, uh, SpaceX, uh, who is projected to be mass delivering starships and, and and rockets and whatnot on, on a daily basis.

[00:37:19] Michal: Yeah, yeah. But still we are talking about one company, whereas in automotive, we have dozens of companies that, that call in, in larger volumes than this. So I'm not saying that we might not get to the point, uh, where I think we will get to the point where space industry is also, uh, way more.

[00:37:42] Uh, repetitive in the production and it's, it, it will resemble, uh, the repetitive sectors, uh, like automotive in, in many aspects, but right now, uh, of course it's not yet on that volume of demand, but where [00:38:00] it is very applicable or, or where we could see that, uh, this connection automotive and, and space makes sense is.

[00:38:11] First of all, in the combination of variety of expertise needed, because in automotive, you need a broader range of, uh, technological capabilities. So you need combination of machinery, you need combination of electronics, you need combination of IT, and you need to put all this together. And in most cases in space sector, you also need this, this sort of a combination.

[00:38:40] Uh, we could also see that The motivation for the companies to enter the space sector from their original area in automotive, it's Very well thought of and it's actually very logical because they see a space not necessarily as something they will change their original specialization for, but they see it as next stage on their technological development and on their growth, qualitative growth.

[00:39:17] So they perceive space as an area which can help them make their processes better, which can get them To a higher level of technological expertise and technological complexity. They see it as a sector which can even help them with their hiring and with being, uh, more, um, being more appealing on, on the, uh, labor market because they can also motivate their engineers.

[00:39:50] Uh, to be engaged in something, uh, fascinating and they can engage the engineers that will be hired to, to work on their main [00:40:00] core business, to also be dedicated some, some time of, of a day, uh, to work on, on space projects, which it's, it's a, it's something that, uh, can be. Very intriguing motivation factor for passionate and, uh, driven, uh, engineers and, and experts in the field.

[00:40:19] So these are, these are just examples of, uh, practical feedback that you were receiving from, from real companies when we were talking with them. So, so they do not necessarily now perceive it as, uh, as a sector where they. Jump from their original sector, but they see it as something for their, Yeah.

[00:40:40] a new vertical, uh, an extension and extension, uh, to more, uh, complex technological capability and to qualitative growth.

[00:40:51] So they see it as something to simply become, uh, a better and more technologically capable company. 

[00:41:00] Markus: hmm. Mm hmm. Yes. 

[00:41:03] Um, Slovakia recently became an associate member of the European Space Agency. Um, how did you pull that off? how how easy, how difficult was it? And what does it mean? 

[00:41:13] In fact, for the country?

[00:41:15] Michal: So, the process is such that you are first a collaborating state, then after some years you can become the associate member, and then it continues all the way.

[00:41:30] To the full membership, so we are now in the associate membership, uh, which followed the years of, uh, the collaborating state, uh, And that was time which helped us to do some first developments of our space sector to teach some first companies and research institutions how to do business with ESA and to get used to the formalities and all the processes that are there.

[00:41:57] And, uh, it, it really [00:42:00] was a very helpful period because, uh, it helped many of our companies to develop, uh, some very good, uh, capabilities and, uh, capabilities that they are now further utilizing, uh, and, and, uh, turning it step by step to, to, to products and to, to solutions that are, uh, Uh, useful, uh, potentially on the market.

[00:42:23] Uh, how did we pull it off? Uh, we, we of course needed to make sure that our industry is, is ready. So this was something we were also, uh, tasked to do, uh, as, as our agency before even the space office was created. So we were tasked to make sure that our industry ecosystem is, uh, um, capable to, to tackle this, this new.

[00:42:47] challenge and new stage of, of, uh, collaboration with ESA. Uh, so that was also part of the motivation why we started engaged in those activities around the sector development and out internationalization. So we needed to make sure that there will be enough, uh, industrial stakeholders to, to get involved.

[00:43:09] And we also needed to make sure that, uh, Uh, the partners abroad will know about, uh, our capabilities and about what we can do. So there will be a possibility to form mutually beneficial partnerships and, uh, uh, that will allow, uh, being engaged in, in, uh, in activities of European Space Agency on, on a broader extent.

[00:43:35] Because at the end of the day, European Space Agency is mainly about pulling the The resources, the talent, the capabilities and the finance together. So for it to make sense and for it to, to be mutually beneficial and make sure you have to make sure that your ecosystem is well interconnected with, with the rest of this [00:44:00] infrastructure.

[00:44:00] So you can contribute to what is being done on the European level, and you can also get the necessary added value back. You 

[00:44:13] Markus: Tell me, uh, you, you, mentioned it briefly when you were talking about your, a very elaborate strategy, um, space strategy

[00:44:21] as, as a, as a country, as a nation. 

[00:44:25] But 

[00:44:26] let's talk a little bit about education and how important.

[00:44:31] education is in all of this, where

[00:44:34] you get talent from, because I could imagine that from a small country with barely more than 5 million people, it could be tricky to get enough talent for all those sectors that you were just mentioning. So in how far does education come into play? 

[00:44:50] I could imagine it's very early still, because you have been around as a space nation. For a couple of years, but not many, many decades, 

[00:44:59] uh, 

[00:45:00] to a larger extent. 

[00:45:01] So how does that work 

[00:45:02] at the moment?

[00:45:04] Michal: You know, this is extremely important topic and it's probably the best investment that we can do, uh, the investment into, into the talent, uh, and we understand that we need to start early enough, uh, which means that, uh, If you, if you take a look at the university level, that's definitely not early enough.

[00:45:26] That's, that's already where the career paths are being drawn and where, uh, the, uh, young, uh, experts and the professionals are already. Pretty much, uh, sure about what they would like to do, uh, in, in, In their lives. So we, we are now trying to start with, uh, the secondary school, uh, students. Uh, we organized first CANSAT competition, for example, uh, earlier this year, [00:46:00] May, uh, as a part of, of European Space Agency, CANSAT.

[00:46:05] And, uh, we were absolutely amazed, uh, by the interest this activity has created. Uh, so we tried to, to do it as inclusively and open as possible because it was the very first, uh, Slovak CANCET competition. So we wanted to make sure that, uh, every team for every, from every, uh, secondary school that actually meets the requirements.

[00:46:29] The necessary, uh, guidelines and that means the necessary requirements has the possibility, uh, to, to get the, the hardware, uh, launch. So, for those who are not familiar with, with Calcet, it's a, it's a competition where. Uh, the secondary school, uh, student teams, they built their, uh, CAN sets. So it's, it's exactly what it says.

[00:46:53] So it's, it's a small kind of satellite of, of a size of a can, a soda can, which contains a hardware, which they put together, assemble and create. And it has, uh, uh, also the computer, which is programmed by them. And. Then, they launch it with our help, uh, to one kilometer altitude, from which it's then sending on a parachute back, uh, to the ground.

[00:47:24] And on its way up and down, it, uh, is, uh, conducting the mission which they have to design and they have to, to think about what actually the mission could bring, what data they can collect. It's an actual piece of hardware and software which is operating, communicating, gathering data. And it's done by secondary school students, which we were amazed by, by the, uh, The level of complexity and, uh, the creativity that, uh, these teams, uh, shown us.

[00:47:58] So at the end, we [00:48:00] had four key teams from all around the country that actually launched the, the, these can sets we were launching on drones, which was also very, very, uh, fascinating, uh, endeavor. Uh, to see how the drone technology and space technologies

[00:48:19] Markus: Mm

[00:48:20] Michal: can nicely collaborate. And even though these students, they know that those can sets are not actually going to space, they are just going to one kilometer altitude, but it was, it was extremely Fascinating for them to actually have these hands on experience and to learning how to create a mission, how to, how to do all the necessary milestones, how to do all the necessary tasks.

[00:48:52] Paperwork done. So it was one of the main challenges for them to actually have all the, uh, critical design review and preliminary design review and everything they had to put together like, like they are doing a real mission. So, so they, they had this, this, this taste of what it takes to be a space engineer.

[00:49:11] And, uh, so, so. Yeah, secondary school already, so they, so they, they learning the hard way in a way, so they do not expect that it's, it's, uh, it's, it's easy. Uh, they, they already see how, how complex and, and how difficult it is. On the other hand, they, they had. These, uh, experience and feeling of seriousness of the stuff.

[00:49:36] So, uh, at the end of the day, we, we had a feeling that, uh, it's, it's a very fascinating way for them how to learn, how to get this first experience. So, so this is just an example of, of, uh, things that we do. Uh, that was our, uh, youngest, youngest, uh, group that we worked with, with some specific particular, [00:50:00] uh, project.

[00:50:01] Uh, I don't count, uh, the, let's say some, um, promotional and outreach presentations that we also do from time to time, even with the younger, uh, with younger auditorium, but this was really like a very specific, a very comprehensive project that we did. And then, then we of course work also with, uh, with the older students.

[00:50:26] And we do a lot of things, of course, also with university students. So we are now trying to really to, uh, Both work with those students, which are already in relevant fields. So again, we are talking about the combination of mainly the technical fields. We're talking about combination of, uh, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, and software development.

[00:50:50] And of course, with some, uh, with some. additional important group of non technical experts. And at the same time, we are trying to work with, uh, the younger ages to make sure that, uh, we have growing interest in, in STEM. And we have growing interest in, in paths that they could bring these, uh, uh, young people closer towards, uh, space sector. 

[00:51:20] Markus: Mm-Hmm.

[00:51:22] Hmm. 

[00:51:22] Very interesting. By the way, um,

[00:51:26] is the Stamos Festival, is that related to all of this? Um, 

[00:51:31] because I came across that beautiful festival. It's in Bratislava,

[00:51:34] Michal: Yeah, it was, it was this year in Bratislava. So the festival is actually international and it takes place every time in a different location. So this year it was in, uh, in Slovakia.

[00:51:46] And, uh, We weren't, we weren't responsible for it, but we were involved as, uh, as a partner and we had some, uh, uh, sessions that we led, uh, some presentation and [00:52:00] outreach activities, uh, so it was very, very interesting, uh, initiative to, to have this kind of event in Slovakia. It was a, it was a good 

[00:52:09] Markus: Just for everyone, 

[00:52:10] for everyone to understand, the Stamos Festival is a 

[00:52:13] creative, 

[00:52:16] mostly music, um, 

[00:52:18] and, 

[00:52:19] Please do correct me, festival, um, merging the love for science with music and the arts and culture. So, 

[00:52:28] Brian May from, from, Queen was there 

[00:52:31] on the first night doing a show and then 

[00:52:34] who was the second 

[00:52:34] one?

[00:52:35] Michal: Well, there was, there was a big, big group of very interesting people. I think you, you, you think Jean Michel Jarre, who was the, he was the headliner.

[00:52:45] He was the headliner. But yeah, you, exactly as you, as you said. So, Starmus is Uh, combination of, uh, scientific and, and in many cases, space focused topics and artistic and musical, uh, area. So it was very interesting combination of, uh, uh, of a festival that you would connect with, uh, let's say summer, summer festival, but with a very, very big portion of, uh, uh, scientific discussions and, and, and science popularization talks.

[00:53:20] Thanks. 

[00:53:22] Markus: I love that combination of festival music, rock music, 

[00:53:26] loud guitars, beer, and whatnot, and science. This is what it's all 

[00:53:31] about. nice. 

[00:53:35] Now looking back, Michael, looking back over the past couple of years, being a space nation, not a spacefaring nation, but a space nation, uh, what Do you think are the biggest learnings from your end, from how you have brought [00:54:00] Slovakia 

[00:54:02] into that 

[00:54:03] new world of a completely new industry?

[00:54:08] What is it that you would say were the most challenging bits and pieces, and what could other countries, maybe if they listen to this, also learn from the path that you have gone so far?

[00:54:21] Where would you say, hey, don't do this, cut corners there, um, and and save you, save you some time here and there?

[00:54:29] Michal: hmm,

[00:54:31] hmm. If I, if I would, if I would have to, to pick one. Specific point, it's the importance of collaboration, because you have many aspects that you need to bring together for an actual innovation and also space ecosystem work.

[00:54:53] Uh, and it depends, of course, on what you want to achieve as a, as a country. So, if the Motivation is, is really focused on pragmatic aspects and on, uh, creating actual possibilities for your knowledge economy and integrating space technology in your knowledge economy and, and helping, uh, it's to grow through, through that.

[00:55:22] Uh, then what you want to focus is not as much space program as it was Especially in the past, it was usually taken as a central aspect of everything that the government should do. So it should build a space program. I think that today with this more complex approach to space and more comprehensive and broad possibilities it's bringing, it's not that much about space program as about space ecosystem.

[00:55:54] So for, for a country and a smaller country like, like Slovakia, it is [00:56:00] way more, uh, Profitable and way more interesting to focus on creating and enabling an enabling a well working and synergetic space ecosystem that is conducting the conversation. research and also the business activities in a way, uh, that is working in the most efficient way possible.

[00:56:24] So in a way that's utilizing its potential in a way that it's, uh, uh, taking the opportunities that are, uh, emerging on, on the regional, in our case, European or global level. So this means that our, our focus was really in, uh, creating this, this, enabling ecosystem around and helping our companies to get involved in the sector, to get involved in the activities and projects, to get the necessary information and expertise to start and to find the first possibilities and first partners and navigate through these complex waters and For this, you really need to put the collaboration as the pillar of everything, because you need to have the ecosystem as a well working structure.

[00:57:26] So you need to engage the universities, you need to engage the research and development, you need to engage the companies, you need to engage the governmental organizations, you need to engage the Uh, foreign partners that will also help with, uh, navigating the opportunities because you obviously don't want to create, uh, possibilities just on national level, but mainly on international level.

[00:57:52] You need to engage the private investors. You need to engage the, the, the talent. So there is. [00:58:00] There are so many variables in this equation that you need to constantly be keeping in mind and, uh, balancing, uh, them, uh, every day, uh, for it, for this, this ecosystem, uh, being all the time in the right balance to, to, to move forward.

[00:58:25] Markus: As the director of the Slovak Space, 

[00:58:28] Office, 

[00:58:28] what are your very bold future goals and visions? 

[00:58:33] And let's think bold now. Where are you? 

[00:58:36] Where is your mind 

[00:58:37] headed?

[00:58:39] Michal: Uh, just, just for the record, so as I, as I outlined in the, in the beginning, so. The Slovak Space Office, it's a, it's a collaborative endeavor. So technically there are two parts of Slovak Space Office and, uh, each has its, uh, its, uh, hat.

[00:58:54] So I'm leading the, uh, the implementation part. And then there is the, the, uh, the policy part. So I'm a director of, uh, this implementation branch or, or industry branch, how we, how we, uh, often call it, uh, of the Slovak Space Office. And, uh, My bold, my bold, uh, visions, so my bold vision would be mainly that we want to make sure that Slovakia is a relevant and, uh, uh, seeked for partner in space industry that has its purpose.

[00:59:40] Strong position in certain niche technological areas and therefore plays an important part of the European space landscape and not just European. So, our vision is that we want to further [01:00:00] We work on establishing these strong points on this, in these strong niche areas, uh, across the board, across the, the, the value chains and markets of space economy.

[01:00:13] So it might not sound that, that Paul, maybe you expected some, some, uh, large satellite missions and, and, uh, maybe, uh, Slovak national launch rocket or something like that, or, or, uh, some, uh, Moon Village in a couple of decades, but what we what we really try to focus on is the pragmatic aspect. It's not always the easiest thing to sell because it may seem very boring.

[01:00:42] So when we talk about space with Uh, general public, usually the most fascinating things are, uh, the things related to rockets, to towards satellite missions, to, uh, uh, some scientific missions and, uh, to, uh, discovering. The unknown and moving the boundaries, which is a very important part of the space sector because it helps us to attract the talent, it helps us to show it as a forefront of what we can do as humanity.

[01:01:17] But equally important is really the practical side of what's All we can turn this technology into in a way of added value for, for humanity. So we are here in this, in this more boring business, we are, we are working on, uh, engaging the industry. We are working on making sure that it has the possibilities in, in, in the sector and that it can, uh, get, uh, certain, uh, Positions allowing it to, to be active, not just on national, but also international.

[01:01:47] Also, therefore, therefore our focus, even with, uh, with some visions for the future is really more focused on that. We want to make sure that, uh, our industry has these [01:02:00] possibilities and, and it has these, uh, uh, important, uh, uh, niche positions secured. And that our space sector is a vital part of this broader European space community and it gives us the label of a respected partner, which I hope that we are.

[01:02:24] Uh, step by step, uh, acquiring and that we are showing that, uh, the, the technology that is made in Slovakia is, is really something that, uh, the partners want to have involved in their projects and in their programs. At the end of the day, we understand that, uh, the limited size of our country, uh, could be, could be limiting in achieving, uh, large goals and large missions, but here in space it's in the contrary or, or.

[01:02:55] At least it's not a limiting factor that much because since we have this, uh, uh, institutional, uh, institutional, uh, playgrounds like European Space Agency and also European Union, there is a good enough opportunity and good enough possibility also for the smaller players, for small companies and, uh, and, uh, SMEs that can get involved in large missions and that can get involved in, in large projects.

[01:03:24] scale projects, uh, by being part of this family, by being part of these, uh, um, international, uh, consortia, international projects. 

[01:03:38] Markus: Michael, on a personal note, what aspects of the future of space exploration excite you the most personally?

[01:03:49] Michal: Uh, it's, it's, uh, tough to pick one, uh, that's, that's for sure. Of course, it's, it's very exciting to, to [01:04:00] observe the, uh, human, uh, space exploration. So, uh, how we are, uh, again, pushing these boundary, uh, for me, it's also interesting Uh, the development of robotic exploration as well, um, to see the future development of, uh, the, uh, markets that are serving Earth.

[01:04:24] So also markets around the, the telecommunication, the markets around the observation and, uh, and the GNSS technology. So it's very, it's very difficult to, to, to pick one. What I'm, what I'm really curious about is, uh, how, how well, for example, our companies will. Uh, get involved, uh, in, in these. So, for example, when we talk about, uh, the, uh, future of, uh, missions to the moon, uh, we definitely have, uh, Uh, several, um, technologically very interesting companies that could be, uh, on board here.

[01:05:04] So I'm really, I'm really curious about, uh, how they will succeed in this and, uh, of course we will be supporting them in this endeavor and hopefully we will see some, uh, hardware, uh, made in Slovakia, also on the surface, uh, of the moon, uh, in the, uh, upcoming years. 

[01:05:23] Markus: Are you a space nerd? 

[01:05:24] Do you have any background in the space 

[01:05:26] Michal: space industry? No. No. In fact, I I have my background in exactly that group that we were talking about, which is not maybe fitting the most traditional view about the space career. So my background is from diplomacy and especially also international business. So I'm perhaps one of the, the, the, Confirmation of our uh, theses that we were discussing that we don't need to just uh, technological experts, but we also need a big [01:06:00] variety of profiles. 

[01:06:03] Markus: ha ha. Fantastic. So we got a diplomat turned director of Slovak Space Office. I like that. If the call came now, would you go into space? If you could hitch a ride?

[01:06:19] Michal: Now this is a, this is a question I, I, uh, get quite, quite frequently. Maybe, maybe it's because of our very pragmatic approach to, to the whole, uh, space sector development. But, uh, what I, what I like to, to answer to this question is that I would, if I have some use out there. And, uh, again, I'm not, I'm not, uh, I'm not a technical expert.

[01:06:46] I'm not a pilot. I'm not a, uh, I'm not a payload scientist or payload expert. So if there is some interplanetary negotiation taking place, I might be of use then, then of course. But, uh, yeah, I would, I would probably like to, to wait for a time when my expertise is actually, uh, of, of use up there. 

[01:07:10] Markus: have you watched For All Mankind, that series? Ha ha.

[01:07:12] Michal: No, No, 

[01:07:14] Markus: No, you should. you should. this is, this would totally open up a bunch of 

[01:07:18] inspiring opportunities. It's a fantastic, 

[01:07:22] a fantastic series depicting the Apollo years until now, and maybe a little more into the future, colonizing Mars from an alternate reality. So it's very surprising, but extremely well. done. So I can highly recommend that one.

[01:07:38] Michal: Yeah, Thanks. Now I know what's on my watch list. 

[01:07:42] Markus: Yes, absolutely. So, but, um, there's a question, um, uh, I asked by the way, So you're not the only one. So if this is surprising to you, um, each of my guests 

[01:07:51] has gone through that one. 

[01:07:53] So if you're going, provided there is a reason for you to go into space, um, [01:08:00] traveling through space will most likely be very boring because going from A to B 

[01:08:05] takes a long time and the excitement wears off.

[01:08:09] pretty quickly, I guess. So my question to you, to help you through those boring moments, which piece, which one piece of music would you want to bring and put on a playlist?

[01:08:25] Michal: First thing coming to my mind would be, uh, perhaps one of the frequent answers, Space Oddity by David Bowie. It 

[01:08:34] Markus: Maybe that's already, that's already, taken, 

[01:08:37] unfortunately. So 

[01:08:38] you, you need to come up with a second pick. And by the way, the playlist is on Spotify. 

[01:08:44] If You 

[01:08:45] after, after our call, you can look it up, 

[01:08:48] what the 

[01:08:49] others choose. 

[01:08:50] Michal: now that we got to me, uh 

[01:08:54] Markus: It's a huge variety. We have like classical music. We have, we have pop music. We have hard rock. We have everything.

[01:09:04] Michal: So I think I would, I would then pick something of Slovak origin, uh, to, to keep some, some connection with the homeland. So perhaps, uh, uh, there was a, there was a famous, there was a famous, uh, uh, interpreter, uh, called, uh, Karol Duchoin. So I guess something from him. It's, uh, it's a more older kind of stuff, but, uh, it would be a good contrast with, uh, uh, The high tech, uh, which I would be part of. Is 

[01:09:38] Markus: Is 

[01:09:39] there a specific tune 

[01:09:40] Michal: by him you would, 

[01:09:41] Markus: on the playlist?

[01:09:43] Michal: that playlist?

[01:09:43] Uh, yeah, probably let's go with the song Hram, which, which, and it's in Slovak, so it translates, uh, I play. So it's, it's a, it's a cool tune. Quite a nice and joyful tune. So I think it would, it would go well with, uh, with the scenes 

[01:09:59] Markus: [01:10:00] Very nice 

[01:10:00] Michal: uh, uh, having there. 

[01:10:03] Markus: So let me just spell it 

[01:10:05] out. It's, what was the first name of that 

[01:10:07] artist? Karol? 

[01:10:09] Michal: Karol, 

[01:10:10] Markus: Okay, and the last

[01:10:11] Michal: Duhoň. It might be quite a challenge with the spelling in Slovak. 

[01:10:15] Markus: ha ha! 

[01:10:16] Michal: probably text you after. 

[01:10:18] Markus: Yes. Yes, 

[01:10:19] perfect. Wonderful. Thank you. And my last question to you, This show is called the Space Cafe Podcast. It's a

[01:10:27] coffee place, for audiences

[01:10:29] to hang out and to engage 

[01:10:31] with inspiring guests.

[01:10:34] And in coffee places, you now and then have an espresso to energize yourself. Now, I challenge you to share an espresso for the

[01:10:43] mind 

[01:10:44] with me, 

[01:10:45] with the audiences. You can pick whatever kind of topic you want 

[01:10:49] to pick. 

[01:10:50] What do you think could be 

[01:10:51] inspiring an inspiring espresso for the mind, for audiences?

[01:10:57] Michal: do 

[01:11:01] Markus: That you think could be energizing and inspiring?

[01:11:06] Michal: Yeah, I would, I would again get to, uh, to topic which I already highlighted previously, and that's the necessity for collaboration.

[01:11:17] And, uh, this has, from my perspective, it has two layers. So, uh, we as humanity, we need to. Uh, engage as widely as possible in space endeavor to, to pull the resources, to pull the talent, to pull the expertise, uh, in order to most efficiently, uh, tackle the challenges that we are facing here on Earth, but also to.

[01:11:48] Uh, utilize the, the opportunities that are lying behind, uh, beyond the, the horizons. But at the same time, we need to, to [01:12:00] collaborate and we need to, um, to join forces to, to make sure that the benefits of, of space technology are being distributed, uh, across humanity in manner, in a way that is as Just and as, uh, sustainable as, as possible, 

[01:12:24] Markus: Mm

[01:12:24] Michal: uh, because every technology can be.

[01:12:29] Uh, used in both a positive and also negative way. So we, we need to really make sure by joining courses, by working together, that also the benefits that the space technology, uh, can bring us is, uh, uh, really used in the right way. 

[01:12:50] Markus: Fantastic.

[01:12:52] Wonderful.

[01:12:53] Um, Michal, thank you so much for 

[01:12:56] this inspiring 

[01:12:58] episode 

[01:13:00] today.

[01:13:01] Michal: Thank you for the invitation and have a good day. This is encouraging. No matter who you are, no matter where you come from, you have a place at the table because there is always something that makes you special. Like the Slovak Space Initiatives. So let's keep this in mind while I let you go for today.

[01:13:28] Markus: And let's remember that this applies to any walk of life. Anyone you come across has something to say. that you don't have. Or, as some say, everyone you meet knows something you don't. Thank you, my friends, for your growing interest and for sticking around, wherever you may be right now. I really appreciate all of this and cannot wait to share the upcoming episode with you.

[01:13:54] Until then, take care, my friends. Bye bye. [01:14:00]