Eps 67 - Board Who Overstep

In this week's episode, Matt and I discuss the issue of Board Members not understanding their roles and overstepping into the coaches' space. It emphasizes the importance of clear roles and responsibilities between the board and the other top positions, such as the Head Coach or CEO. Lack of communication and trust between the Board and coaching Staff can lead to problems within the organization. Board Members must focus on long-term strategic thinking and the growth of the organization while allowing the professionals to handle day-to-day operations. The conversation also highlights the need for the Board and Parent Code of Conduct to ensure professionalism and accountability.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Clear roles and responsibilities should be established between the board and the top position.
• Effective communication and trust are essential for a successful organization.
• Board members should focus on strategic thinking and the long-term growth of the organization.
• Board and parent code of conduct should be implemented to ensure professionalism and accountability.

Transcript

00:00:03 - Introduction

This is the Your Sports Resource podcast, where each week you'll learn actionable strategies that you can implement. So the operations of your club support your coaching staff and the direction of your organization. We are committed to excellence in youth sports leadership. Let's get started. 

00:00:28 – Renata

Hello and welcome to the Your Sports Resource podcast. Today, Matt is joining me, and today we're going to talk about a little, probably a controversial topic, but I think one that's really important for us to discuss. And the topic today is really about Board Members not understanding their roles, what they should be doing, and kind of stepping out of their space of responsibilities and over into the Coach's space. 

00:01:03

So I think what I'd like to do is we just kind of want to talk about what that looks like and what happens and what the effects are on clubs because there's not enough structure with a lot of these organizations who have Boards. And the reason why we're bringing this up now is for whatever reason, we've had a, I don't want to say a rush, but we've had quite a few of these conversations the last couple of months about what is the Board's responsibility, what is my responsibility from the head coach and then even Board members at the same time? Like, is that our responsibility? 

00:01:49

Is that not? And then we've also had a couple of clubs that have come forward that are really having a hard time. They're struggling because of it. So I think where I'd like to start, Matt, is about, like, let's talk generally about what the actual role of the board is and the role of the CEO or the head coach or whoever that top-level person is. And I say generally because obviously, every club is going to be a little bit different in how deep they go into the operations side.

00:02:26

Because let's be honest, there are some clubs that, the board is freaking doing everything because it's a small organization. There's some clubs that can go up to the next step and have independent committees. And then there are some clubs that are doing really well, a lot of members, and they are purely just oversight, and they have staff that cover all the operations. So when I say general, that's what I mean by that. From your perspective as a former coach, Matt, what is your thought process on the division of labor, so to speak, or responsibilities between the board and the top position, whatever that is.

00:03:10 - Matt

Yeah. Whether it's the head coach or a CEO, executive director, whatever. There's a number of different titles that people carry out there. Those are the people who are experts on the swimming side of things, right? Those are the people who are organizing your groups, your training times, hiring coaches, putting the right coaches in the right places, communicating anything that's really swimming-related. 

00:03:36

So anything that's going to affect the kids that are within that club, communicating that to those kids and their parents. So your membership and then the board is kind of the other side of that. Right. And essentially they're the behind-the-scenes person. Right. The coach is the face of it. They're going to be the person who's out there having a lot of these conversations. The board is kind of the behind-the-scenes. 

00:04:01

Are we operating financially in the way that we need to be? Do we have the committees in place to help the coaches, to fundraise, run meets, manage the facilities? Really, it just depends on what the setup of that club is. But they do need to be on the same page. Right. Because what we want is the coach to be able to go out there and share that information and we want the board to be able to just. 

00:04:28

Yes, that's exactly where we're at. That's what we discussed. And when something comes or questions come, they can just back that coach up. So that's kind of how I look at it. I look at it as the board is, they're the behind-the-scenes people who kind of make sure that the doors are going to stay open and that all those areas that the team has to operate, whether it's fundraisers, like I said, or meets or things that they're making sure those things are running smoothly.

00:04:59 - Renata

Yeah, I think one differentiator for me, and sometimes it's really hard to get to the spot. And I think this is where clubs really get in trouble, is I kind of look at it as the coach or the CEO, Executive Director are really responsible with the day-to-day and the board is responsible for strategic down the line. That doesn't mean that the board's excluded from day-to-day, because again, there are some boards that have some operational responsibilities, like, I don't know, running fundraising events or something like that. 

00:05:35

And that doesn't mean that the highest role, head coach, CEO, whoever it is, should be excluded from the strategic planning. I think they both have valuable input on both sides, but I think for me, the biggest differentiator that I try to get across is that the Board is responsible for that long-term thinking about longevity for the organization. How does the organization grow? How does it deal with dips? I mean, there's a lot of clubs right now that have had quite a bit of a dip in their membership.

00:06:13

And we knew this was coming because financially, the countries, we're not doing horrible, but we're not doing great. And, a lot of people are trying to make choices with their budget, and this has been happening for well over a year. It's not like it's brand new, but we have seen a dip in membership. But I think when clubs think strategically or boards think strategically and behave strategically, that enables them to add value on that side of the house. While the staff are heavily involved in the day-to-day, where do you think the board members kind of step out of line, or where their biggest misstep is?

00:07:02 - Matt

I think it's really, in what you said earlier, it's just understanding responsibilities because I don't want to say a lot of a misstep right. In the way of meaning it's negative. I think sometimes they just don't fully understand. Right. And I think you put it really well there with the day-to-day. 

00:07:18

Sometimes I think they think it's, well, it is the day-to-day because they hear a lot of complaints because they're most likely their parents more times than not, and their kids are in the groups and they're talking to the other parents and then they hear all the little bit of the little complaints. Maybe that could have to do with this coach does this, says this this way. They don't like maybe the practice times. 

00:07:41

Sometimes you've got two kids and there's so many at different times they want them to be together. I mean, there's so many little things. So what you want them to understand is like, hey, this is my role is to back up the coach, right. Because it's set up this way for whatever reason. It's that way because of facilities. It's that way because of coach availability, who you have. It's that way because this is the best for those kids to train. 

00:08:10

So there's reasons that the program is set up the way the program is set up. So I think they kind of just naturally hear a lot of things. So they feel like, well, I am a board member, maybe I can help out with this situation. So I don't want to come across as it's negative. I think truly that most of the time they're trying to be helpful. 

00:08:32

By talking to other parents or maybe thinking like, I'll bring this to the coach. But what they don't understand then is from the coach's perspective, it probably comes across as well, you're kind of stepping over the line here and you're getting into my territory or that coach just wants them to back them up. 

00:08:52

So that's where I think you said, having those defined roles, but then also talking about what are your responsibilities. If you're on the board, then you're responsible for backing the business. And if this is the decision that's been made by the coaching staff and this is going to be the structure, you may not like it, but you have to back it up, right. That's just one of those responsibilities.

00:09:16 - Renata

I think you hit the nail in the head in the fact that sometimes the board actually gets the complaints and they assume because they're getting one or two complaints here and there, that it's a catastrophe and everything has to be resolved immediately. And they don't behave in the best interest of the organization. They feel their duty is to solve this one parent's problem. And I think that's really the space we want to get them to. We want to get boards and coaching staff to be able to understand both sides of the house and respect each other's decision-making and how they move forward because collectively they are the business leaders, right?

00:10:03

And so if both of them kind of stay in their space and in their lane and they support each other in front of the membership, then things will be excellent, things will work really well. That doesn't mean that you don't have disagreements behind closed doors, right. But I think that's a key proponent. And I think the other side that a lot of boards lose focus on is that because somebody complains, they assume, or let's just say they've got two complaints within a week about something. 

00:10:36

They assume chicken little, that the sky is falling. Right. And what they don't take into consideration is that 98% of the membership are good. They just don't ever say anything. They don't ever come up and go, I love the job you guys are doing. I love the job that the coach is doing. They don't do that. We as human beings don't do that. We don't just naturally tell somebody that, hey, I love what I'm paying for. My kid gets a lot of satisfaction on being on this team. 

00:11:07

So what that does is that causes some board members to so hyper-focus that small percentage and assume that it's the worst thing in the world. They also tend to jump to conclusions without having appropriate conversations with their staff, and that's where the trust starts to erode and where there ends up being problems. 

00:11:33

And I don't want to step away from that. But what I'd like to do is explain that when you start having these little chinks in the armor, well, that's when the coaches or whoever that lead role is, staff role is, starts throwing up the walls. And that's not good either, but I understand it. So they don't start communicating ahead of time. They don't front foot like, hey, I'm making a major change. There's going to be families that don't like it, but I want you guys to understand what that change is so you can support me as I roll this out. Right.

00:12:06

So they start to not have front-foot conversations with the board because they just feel like the board is just going to run with the complaints instead of what's important for the organization. And that is a very fair analysis. I mean, anytime that I've really dug into, and this is what I tried to do in preparation for our conversation today, was I went back and looked at the handful of clubs, I would say two handfuls of clubs that we've had these issues with on Board, not quite understanding what's their responsibility and what's not. 

00:12:38

And it usually comes down to the fact that they just want to run with one little issue or second little issue and they feel like it's the most worst thing that has gone on in this organization. And then the staff are kind of run through the wringer because of it when essentially it's just a couple of parents complaining. And I think boards, like you mentioned earlier, they need to understand how to handle that. 

00:13:04

And I think that coaches need to do a better job at explaining this is coming down the line or if something just happened on deck, like going, writing the board and going, hey, you might hear about this. This is what happened, right? This is how I handled it, or this is what another coach did. I've had a conversation with them. 

00:13:25

We're working through it. I'm not asking you to solve the problem, I'm just letting you know that this information is coming. So I think when we get in those little ugly areas, I do feel like sometimes the more the trust goes down and down and down, the farther apart they get and then they don't really hear each other and it just makes a bigger issue. Right. That members actually start to pay attention to.

00:13:49 - Matt

Yeah. And swimming is a different thing. Right? Swimming. For a lot of parents. If you hadn't grown up in club swimming, it's hard to really understand because most other sports, you're going to be on a team almost with kids that are like, if you're in fifth grade, you're typically on a team with fifth graders and you're practicing at this time and you're doing where swimming got a lot of this overlap, right. 

00:14:15

You've got sometimes 5th, 6th, 7th graders, 6th, 7th, 8th grade, whatever training all together and there's different ability levels to a point. You're trying to piece that together. So it's a little bit more complex sometimes than I think parents are used to. So I think they have to understand that there's a lot of thought that goes into those where it's not just like, here's our team, they practice together and then they kind of go on and then the other team comes in. 

00:14:40

There's a lot of overlapping things that I think can get confusing sometimes, too, for parents to understand that those coaches or their thought process is pretty deep sometimes on why we're doing this, why this is set up this way. And so that's why having that trust in the coach to understand that, hey, they've been here, they've done this, they understand it. They see what works, what doesn't, and that they're doing what is best for the overall team. And that's just that overall team in mind.

00:15:11 - Renata

And I think that's it right there. I think if both the board and the staff can ensure that the decisions that they make or the steps that they make is all in the best interest for the whole of the organization, you're not going to please everybody. Right. So what do you think? There are things that maybe the board and the staff or the head staff person, whatever that role is, again, should put in place to navigate the unhappy parent because obviously there's going to be cases where that parent has a real right to be bitching and complaining. Right.

00:15:51

And that needs to be listened to and understood and sorted out. Right. But I would venture to say again, most of the complaints are just because they don't like how a coach is coaching. They don't like a practice time. It inconveniences them as a parent. That's why they're complaining when they don't understand about looking at the whole organization. So what can clubs do to set themselves up for success in navigating these scenarios?

00:16:20 - Matt

Yeah. And whether it's like the team or parent handbook or something, just having that written, that understanding of if you have a complaint or you have something you want to discuss, you talk to your group coach and then that group coach is going to talk to whoever, if they need to elevate it to whoever they report to and that they understand that that tree is in place because for the parents, I think that's honestly the key. 

00:16:48

It's just communication and having them understand. You communicate. If you're the Group Coach, you communicate to me. If I need to go to somebody else, then I will bring that to that next person up just because then the Coaches all kind of know what's going on. The last thing you want is that Group Coach three or four days later to all of a sudden find out that something's happening within their group because no one came and talked to them. 

00:17:14

They went two or three levels above and then it kind of trickled back down, kind of down to them. So now they don't understand how to address the situation and they're probably a little upset, too, because all of a sudden there's three or four people involved with something that was maybe just direct from parent to coach and coach back to parent. 

00:17:36

So I think just having that in place in a parent handbook to say like, hey, this is our process. You go here and it works its way up and then it's on the coaches to communicate whether it's a Group Coach to a Head Coach or a Head Coach or a Head Age Group Coach to a Coach or the coach to the Board because it always should work its way back up if need be. Right? That Coach, CEO or Executive Director. 

00:18:04

Whoever that top person is, has to then understand, okay, this is a coaching thing. We're going to just handle this here, or, okay, this is maybe in some gray area. I'm going to bring this to the board president and just let them know, hey, this is going on. Maybe they're going to get that feedback then. But put the process in place. Put it in writing, make sure that people understand it, that parents understand it. And then you have to just follow it. Right. 

00:18:31

You can't just then go, okay, well, so and so can come and complain to the go up to the board and we're just going to listen to it. If you're the Board, then you go, okay, have you talked to your Group Coach? That's your first step. Go talk to your Group Coach. And then you don't address it. Even if it's friend. It's the friend that your kids swim together and they want to come to say, you know what, you need to go talk to your Group Coach. 

00:18:51

And then it kind of gives you that as a Board Member that ability to kind of detach from that and be like, okay, I'm not going to be the one that everybody kind of comes and complains to because that could get frustrating, too, as a parent, if you're on a board and you're like, man, I don't like showing up to the pool anymore because all people want to do is complain.

00:19:11 - Renata

I'm gonna be harassed.

00:19:15 - Matt

Then it's ruining your experience and potentially your kid's experience.

00:19:18 - Renata

Yeah, I think I would go one step further and not even say that it should just be a process. I really think it needs to be a policy. I really feel like organizations need to make that delineation and that line be very clear and that it's a policy that way there's some really strong accountability measures both on the board for stepping out of it. Right. And then also to hold the parents to that. I've only heard this from Board Members is that there is this fear of retribution. Right. 

00:19:55

And I wonder from your perspective in your years of coaching and all the different clubs and university programs you've been with and then working with our clients, have you ever heard, and I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but have you ever heard a Coach really go after a swimmer because of something that they said to their parents?

00:20:18 - Matt

I've never encountered that, honestly. Not even just in swimming. In all the other sports I've been involved in.

00:20:29 - Renata

Yeah, I'm with you there.

00:20:31 - Matt

A youth coach, for that matter, I've never had a college coach. Typically what happens in those situations is potentially there's a child who is misbehaving or causing a lot consistent issues. Right. Then I think the parent uses that as the, oh, well, there's going to be, well, the retribution where it's kind of taking away the fact that, well, is that the case or is it that maybe your kid is constantly a problem and you don't want to accept that? So that's your reasoning for making that statement? Because I really think that that's a statement that is, I don't want to say it's an excuse, but I think sometimes.

00:21:20 - Renata

I totally think it's a cop-out.

00:21:23 - Matt

I think it's excusing their own kids behavior and not the reason for why they don't want to go. So, no, that's not something people are going to say things. They're going to get upset. They're going to have the reasons for speaking up or not speaking up. But most of these coaches who are out there are doing this for, honestly, not a whole lot of pay. Most of the coaches on decks with most of the club teams are part-time Coaches. A lot of them carry other jobs or other full-time jobs and they're doing this. So these are people who genuinely enjoy being there, want to be there, love working with the kids and want to see them get better. So I think that's the last thing on their mind.

00:22:11 - Renata

Absolutely. And it doesn't even have to be like a scenario where the kid is a consistent disruptor. Right. It could just be that kid's having a bad day and said something wrong or acted out. And why wouldn't you want that coach to correct your child? I mean, that's a great opportunity for learning that they get from other adults and also to understand how they behave in that collective and peer environment. So they actually get some really good instruction.

00:22:43 

And you know how it is. Like, you know, with your own kids, you could say something 15 times and they're not going to listen to it, but somebody else says it and it completely registers. So I think when I hear, like, I don't want the retribution, it's because they know that their kid probably has embellished. Right. Or has taken something that's been said wrongly, and you mentioned it earlier, that usually when the board members feel like they got to really solve this and step in, you're right. 

00:23:15

They go all the way around the coach that they should go back to and say, can you just clarify, like, what happened? And get both sides of the perspective? And usually when you do that and then you have a really open and transparent conversation, let's say it's bad enough to where you got to sit everybody down and you sit everybody down and you have a conversation with other people in the room to make sure that it's cordial, that they find out that it's easily resolved. 

00:23:45

It's not this big debacle, that presumption and assumption and letting only one person share their perspective, that usually becomes bigger and bigger and bigger as the days go by that it creates that scenario to be. So what these Board Members do is they remove accountability. They remove that trust of our professionals that are in this industry. And if you're going to accuse me of doing something such as little as this, what's going to happen when something big happens, right? 

00:24:30

So I really need your support. Let's say a kid has an absolute debacle of a day and does something that's completely inappropriate. How are, how are you going to support me if I know you're never going to come to me and ask me what happened? You have to give these people the opportunity to admit when they're wrong or to support their decision-making. 

00:24:58

And if you go around them and you're just heeding every little piece of information from people who may have seen it or heard it secondhand. Well, you're just eroding the trust of the club. Not only are you eroding the trust between the Coard and that coaching staff, your other family members and members are paying attention to the board and they're going, wait a minute, why are we persecuting somebody for correcting a kid on his behavior? That's not right. Well, you're lose trust with your members.

00:25:33 - Matt

The trust between the coach and the athlete in some instances because. Yeah, I think the thing to remember is that this is all a learning experience for a lot of kids because I think you said communication is going to be different. Some people communicate in different ways. Now, if you have a coach who's just constantly screaming and yelling, sure, that's an outline. Okay, let's not say that. But coaches are going to communicate differently. They're going to send messages differently, they're going to use sarcasm. 

00:26:01

There's things that are going to happen that maybe the kid doesn't fully understand and they have to kind of figure that out, right? And if it's not something that's not solvable there, what happens then is the kid doesn't learn to kind of come back to the coach and the coach doesn't understand how that kid where sometimes for the coach, too, it's like, okay, you know what, maybe I need to learn how to say something a little bit differently for this kid as compared to this kid, but then the coach loses that opportunity if it kind of goes back around them, because then when it goes around them, it's always going to be a bigger deal, like you said, right. 

00:26:40

It's always going to be blown out of proportion then because it wasn't handled in the right way. So you're losing that learning opportunity for the kid to understand how to deal with somebody, how to understand what feedback they're getting and that it may come in different forms. And for that coach to understand, well, maybe I do need to communicate with this kid or this kid or a certain group of kids a little bit differently because they're just not picking up the messaging that I'm getting. So what we don't want to do is take away all these learning opportunities for everybody.

00:27:07 - Renata

Yeah. Yes, 200%. Do you think that something that we've been talking about is the board code of conduct and the parent code of conduct? I know that there's this member code of conduct, but when I read them in the bylaws, they're really addressing the swimmer. They're not addressing the parent and they're sure as hell not addressing the volunteer member. 

00:27:37

Do you think? And, the only reason why I bring this up is this is more of the parents that are really going after a coach because they don't like something that they're doing has nothing to do with the best interest of the organization whatsoever. Now, when I say like, listen, Matt and I are not diminishing real problems. If there's actually a safe sport issue that needs to be addressed. If there is another really big issue or something, you know, really inappropriate, maybe not safe sport, but you don't like how they behaved. 

00:28:13

We're not telling you to dismiss that. What we are telling you, though, is to put your business hat on as a board member and look at the business across the board and making sure that the decisions you make and the people you go after and the stokes that you burn to stir up that it's in the best interest of the organization. So do you think that we need to do like a board of code of conduct and a parent code of conduct?

00:28:44 - Matt

Yeah, there should be completely different ones for everybody because the athletes are going to be a completely different set of what the expectations are anyway and kind of by the age they are. There's some things that are going to pertain to a high school-age kid that you're going to have to kind of have in place as compared to an eight and under. Right. There's just certain things you're not going to have to worry about. 

00:29:09

And I mean, I don't want to be honest. I think there's more parent involvement now than there was 20 years ago, potentially when some of these teams kind of were, maybe when their bylaws or how they had things are organized. That's why it's always good to refresh things anyways. And sometimes you just fall into the, oh, this is kind of what we have. We're just going to throw it back out there. Well, maybe it's not suited to fit what today is. Right. 

00:29:34

So if your team is like, hey, we're getting a lot of these parent complaints, man, we're getting a lot of parent misbehavior at meets or on the pool deck at practice. They're coming out there. Well, that's a good sign that you should probably kind of relook at your organization and write what responsibilities you have in place and what the expectations are and kind of rework those.

00:30:00 

And so I totally do think it is because ultimately, the bulk of these teams, you're dealing with minors. And even in bigger issues, the parents are the ones who are going to have to be dealt with. But I also think that, again, I think that there's a lot of outspoken people and they want to get involved and they want their voice heard as far as the parents go. 

00:30:24

So I think there does have to be some restrictions on that. I guess restrictions isn't the right word, but there needs to be some guidelines on what's appropriate. Right. Because these are professional coaches. They're there providing a service for those kids and for that membership and they need to be treated that way.

00:30:47 - Renata

Yeah. I think one thing that's come up quite a bit, and this has come across the entirety of the country from the East Coast to the West Coast. I'm not saying that it's only been in certain clubs, is that there's been a lot of threatening with safe sport as a weapon, instead of it actually being the tool that it's meant to be to keep our kids safe. Right.

00:31:19

And by the mere fact that a lot of these organizations don't treat themselves like formal businesses, you've got board members that discuss information that is not allowed to be discussed with people outside of the board, like employee information. They're breaking laws because these Board Members don't take their role as a business leader seriously. And let me clarify that. 

00:31:51

So I think every Board Member comes on a board because they want to do a good job. I don't really feel like, I'm not saying there's not outliers because there probably is that one Board Member who wants to get on the board because they want it their way and they want to get rid of that coach. I think that's very far and few in between. Right. 

00:32:08

I think most people that want to get on the board, they want to do a good job, but what they don't understand is that this is a legitimate business. This is not some kid's swim club or your kid's swim club. It is that. But as far as the IRS and the secretary of state and any other federal or governing agencies, you are a business and you need to conduct yourself as such. 

00:32:34

So releasing employee information or discussing difficult scenarios that you're trying to navigate with everyday members just because they're your friends is really a bad look. And again, that's not only just eroding your trust with the staff, it's also eroding your trust with the rest of the members because, I'm sorry, but gossip is gossip and it goes everywhere. So if you say something in passing, it is not going to stay with the person that you said it to. It's going to go out there like wildfire. 

00:33:11

And that's why I feel like we really need to start pushing these Board Code of Conduct and these Parent Code of Conduct to ensure that they understand the seriousness of the things that they accuse people of or just say to be flippant because they don't have the veil or the glasses on that says, hey, I'm a business leader and I can be sued, or I could have the club sued because I've said something about a staff member. I don't know if that was a long-winded speech of mine.

00:33:49 - Matt

And remember that sometimes the person you're gossiping, that they are gossiping, that may be the same person who turns around and points the finger at you that you were sharing this or you were doing something wrong. Because if that's the mentality and that's kind of where they're at, don't think that they're not going to turn around and do it right back or share that information, because that's what they're trying to do. Right. They're trying to get you to share things that you shouldn't be. So be careful.

00:34:18 - Renata

Yeah. And I don't think they also don't take the seriousness of what this does to the culture of the organization, because once all this stuff starts to happen, then everybody is paying attention and it all erodes. Then you have the parents who are going to take advantage of chinks in the armor, they're going to step in and start bitching and complaining about something. And again, nobody's really thinking about their thinking as a paying customer, that they should have a right to say what they should have. 

00:34:45

That's true, but that doesn't mean that it affects the decision that the business makes for the business. Right. Yeah. And I think the other side, too, is when Board Members really get hot and heavy in these bullshit complaints. Like, I don't like when this practice time is, or I don't like the qualification or the standards for this group, whatever that stupid, silly shit is that sits solely with the CEO or Head Coach. Right. 

00:35:13

And when they get into that, then they're not doing their job. Which is whatever it is strategically. Are you leading a committee? Are you bringing money in house? Are you running meets? They love to look and analyze and be bossy and bitchy about the staff, but then they're ignoring their own responsibility.

00:35:37 - Matt

What they're supposed to be doing.

00:35:41 - Renata

Right. And that is kind of really the point I wanted to get to today in our discussion, in that we are not telling you to not hold staff accountable, which you should. Right. But it has to be through the lens of being professional and staying in your own lane and ensuring that the coach understands their role. Right. So once you approve, like, let's say you're going to add water polo into your programming, the Board can agree to bring in water polo.

00:36:18 

But once you hire that water polo coach, all the programming decisions for water polo is the coach's decision, not yours. Right. Now, if he is out of bounds and is throwing shit on deck and going into the girl's locker room, like all those things. Absolutely. Accountability as far as that's concerned. But those are massive missteps, right. They're not because I've scheduled practice at 04:00 p.m. or because I corrected a kid on deck because he chucked a kickboard at someone else's head. Right. 

00:36:54

So I think this is the point that for me, I mean, maybe you have a different perspective, Matt, that I really wanted to get across today is in order for our clubs to stay in thriving mode and not survival mode is the board has got to grab hold of the strategic side and really take advantage of what they are supposed to be doing to add back to the organization and let their professionals be professionals. Because if not, this whole departure of coaches in this industry is just going to get worse and worse.

00:37:37 - Matt

Yeah. And it's hard. I think sometimes as a parent, if you're on the board and you feel like, hey, my kid's on the team, sometimes decisions are going to be made, but they all have to be made for the betterment of the whole organization. And sometimes that could even mean maybe it's not the best organization for your kid at that time. And that's okay. 

00:38:02

You have to put your own kid in the best situation that you feel like they're going to be successful and thrive, but at the same time, this business has to keep operating because we can't have both sometimes. Because, well, if the organization is not running the way it's supposed to be, then there's a chance that it's not going to be around long enough to have your kid go through it, right? You have to be able, like you said, to make those business decisions. Let the coaches do what they're going to know then as a family, that's a separate decision of what's best for my family, what's best for my own kids.

00:38:38 - Renata

Yeah, I think that's a valid point, though, Matt, because there's a lot of boards that are like, oh, my God, we can't tell a member to leave. Right? It's going to be our demise. No, it's not. It's in the best interest of the club, and it's in the best interest of that family member. And by the way, if you were out raising money, you wouldn't be so scared about losing one family again. Step into your role. 

00:39:03

You should be doing that strategic, bringing in extra money, and you wouldn't be worrying about the one member who is an absolute freaking disruptor to the organization and trying to keep them. Right? So again, I just think, like, our priorities are just messy. I don't know. All right, so parents or boards, if you disagree with this, write us and let us know. I'd love to hear your perspective. 

00:39:33

Obviously, as a parent, if you feel like something's not going right, you have a right to say something. You just also need to understand that your perspective may be dead on or it may be okay, that's your perspective. It's not necessarily our perspective as business leaders in the organization. And that's okay. I know parents are very different. You said parents are different. They're more involved, but they're more involved differently. Like, they're more involved in not letting the professional be the professional. 

00:40:05

And then they don't want anything to do with volunteerism, which really drives me up the wall. They want to be in the middle of the professional's work. Tell that coach how to coach. Right. But yet when it comes time to, we need volunteers to run a meet efficiently and actually bring money into our organization. They don't want to hear anything about it. They don't want to hear anything about it. So parents are more involved, but I would have to say that they're not involved in the ways that I wish they were.

00:40:34 - Matt

Get involved by sharing your own expertise.

00:40:39 - Renata

Yeah, clubs could use your skills, right? Not just your mouth. All right, well, that's all for us today. Thank you for listening. And please subscribe, rate, and review the podcast so we can reach a bigger audience and help others such as yourself. And please, you can always write us info@yoursportsresource. If you disagree or you have thoughts, you can always visit our website www.yoursportsresource.com, where you can find tools and articles and all of our podcasts so you can listen to them directly. Finally, remember what is common sense isn't always common practice. Put what you learn into action. Don't just be good, be good at it. All right, thanks, everybody!