Ep 76 - Matt Sprang (Owner & CEO of Greater Philadelphia Aquatic Enterprises)

In this week’s episode of The Your Sports Resource Podcast, Matt Sprang, CEO of Greater Philadelphia Aquatic Enterprises, discusses the current landscape of swimming.

Topics include swimmer retention, declining memberships, and the necessity of recreational and developmental programs. They also address challenges such as coach turnover and club operations. The conversation underscores the importance of meeting swimmers' needs, optimizing pool use creatively, and recognizing graduating seniors' achievements.

Additionally, it explores coaches' struggles with parental dynamics and business management in youth sports, highlighting the value of communication, clear expectations, and mentorship programs for coaches.


KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Swimmer retention can be influenced by factors such as high school seniors graduating and not registering with USA Swimming, and swimmers choosing not to join universities that require USA Swimming membership.
• Overall participation in swimming may be at or above pre-pandemic levels, but USA Swimming membership numbers may not reflect this due to teams registering swimmers with other organizations for insurance purposes.
• Clubs should consider offering recreational or development programs to capture swimmers who want to be involved in swimming but don't want the heavy workout schedule or competition cycle.
• Meeting the needs of swimmers and their families, finding creative solutions to maximize pool space, and celebrating the achievements of graduating seniors are important for long-term viability and financial stability of swimming clubs.
• Coaches are leaving the profession due to factors such as a decrease in swimmers pursuing teaching careers, the demanding nature of the coaching profession, and the lack of financial stability.
• Finding ways to attract and retain coaches, providing support and resources for professional development, and addressing the challenges faced by coaches can help mitigate the loss of coaches in the swimming profession. Open communication and setting expectations are crucial in dealing with parents and managing a youth sports program.
• Coach mentoring programs can provide valuable support and guidance for coaches.

ABOUT THE GUEST:

Owner and CEO of Greater Philadelphia Aquatic Enterprises, which operates the Greater Philadelphia Aquatic Club and Tidewater Swim School in Gloucester County, NJ.

Previously head coach of GPAC and a 2004-2017 (Coached numerous Junior National, National, and Olympic Trial Qualifiers; Coached Brendan McHugh (2014 National Champion, 2015 World Championship Team member; 2015-2016 USA Swimming National Team Member)

Middle Atlantic Swimming Board Member and (2006-2020; General Chair, Age Group Chair, Coach Rep, Performance Vice Chair, Treasurer)

USA Swimming Club Development Committee (2013-2017; Chair 2015-2017)

Owner of INSET Leadership, providing facilitation, strategic planning, and community development opportunities for non-profits, teams, and mastermind communities

Co-founder of Premier Aquatic Staffing, providing job search services for swimming, diving, and water polo teams in the United States.



CONNECT WITH THE GUEST:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/matthew-sprang-a811108/
Email: matthew.sprang@gmail.com
Substack: matthewsprang.substack.com



CONNECT WITH ME:
Linkedin: /renata-porter
Instagram: @yoursportsresource
Twitter: @yoursportsres


If you have a suggestion or topics you want me to discuss, write me at info@yoursportsresource.com. Don’t forget to check out our website www.yoursportsresource.com 

Transcript

INTRODUCTION - 00:00:03 

This is the Your Sports Resource podcast where each week you'll learn actionable strategies that you can implement so the operations of your club support your coaching staff and the direction of your organization. We are committed to excellence in youth sports leadership. Let's get started.  

RENATA - 00:00:25 

Hello and welcome to the Your Sports Resource podcast. My name is Renata Porter and today we are really fortunate to have Matt Sprang on with us. We are going to talk about the state of swimming today, and I'm really excited for today's conversation. So Matt is the owner and CEO of Greater Philadelphia Aquatic Enterprises, which operates the Greater Philadelphia Aquatic Club, or GPAC, and Tidewater Swim School in Gloucester County, New Jersey. Now, Matt was also previously the head coach of GPAC. He's been a board member of  Middle Atlantic Swimming, and he's also been a committee member for the USA Swimming Club Development Committee.  

00:01:12 

Matt is also the owner of INSET, which is, or INSET Leadership, which is an organization that provides facilitation, strategic planning, and community development opportunities for nonprofit teams and mastermind communities. He's also the co-founder of Premier Aquatic Staffing, providing job search services for swimming, diving, and water polo teams in the United States. And lastly, and how I found Matt was Substack. So he also has a Substack page where he, he produces articles quite regularly. So welcome, Matt. Thank you for coming on the, Your Sports Resource podcast. 

MATT - 00:01:54 

Thank you so much for having me, Renata, glad to be here. 

RENATA - 00:01:57 

Not a problem. All right, so you are bought into the swimming industry. You got, you're running an organization that houses swim lessons in a competitive team. You've got your own leadership or consulting business, and then you've also, you're doing, you're part of the aquatic staffing. So why, can you just give us a little bit of background of why, why did you double down, so to speak, and make swimming your profession in all these different areas? Why are you honed in on swimming? 

MATT - 00:02:32 

That's a great question to start. I'm like many people who have been in it and are in it as coaches for a long time or board members. I'm a swimming lifer. I started in this sport in 1984 as a six-year-old joining our local summer club team. And the progression was, well, if you want to get better for the summer club team, you got to join a year-round program. And then from there, it was swimming in high school, it was swimming in college. And while I was swimming in college, I started coaching kind of as a way to make money on the side. It fit my training schedule while I was an athlete and student in college.  

00:03:07 

So I started coaching on the side. It was kind of a means, wasn't a means to an end, so to speak, but I really enjoyed it. And coaching part-time turned into coaching full time turned into being a head coach. Once I was the head coach, I realized how important it was to get involved with governance. So I ran for the board in  Middle Atlantic Swimming, served on the board for a number of years there, and just trying to stay involved. It's one thing to be involved, it's one thing to be a coach. Then I had the opportunity to own my team. And more than anything, I think with swimming, it's important to give back. It's important to see the community thrive, not just my program thrive.  

00:03:46 

So that's why I started getting involved in a number of different places and where I've been branching out more recently, really, since COVID was more of an interest in trying to help more people see how great swimming can be, help more people develop better communities within their teams, especially coming out of COVID where we were isolated and community was taken away from us, and people need it more than ever now. So if I can find ways to help some teams foster that with their parents, with their athletes, then I feel like I'm making more of an impact on the community. 

RENATA - 00:04:24 

That's awesome. I think a lot of us who stay in this industry, or I didn't stay, I found my way back to it is all kind of aligned as far as, like, listen, trying to give back to a community that gave so much to us as children, whether we realized it then or not. I mean, I tell everybody all the time, I have an absolute love-hate relationship with swimming. I was, as a swimmer, I was ready to be done by the end of my career. Right. So I wasn't enjoying it as much, but that doesn't mean that it didn't fuel me and didn't create the leader that I became in my career because of all the things that I learned and picked up as an athlete, about being structured, being organized, having goals, understanding disappointment. I think having those. Those skills develop at a young age, whether you like it or not, is like something that just really sets you up for success as an adult. So I'm happy that we are aligned in the fact that, hey, it's been an industry that's been amazing to us as youth, and looking forward to giving back as adults. 

MATT - 00:05:31 

Absolutely. 

RENATA - 00:05:32 

All right, so we wanted to talk about the state of swimming today, and I think when we previously spoke, we really honed in on retention, and that's both from a swimmer and a coach perspective. So let's start with swimmer retention. There's been quite a bit of attention on the direction of USA Swimming and blame on USA Swimming for membership. And I did try to do a survey to collect results on, like, truly trying to understand what the real issues are, real perspective, but we only had 20 people complete that survey versus the other surveys we've done, which have had great response rates.  

00:06:15 

So I didn't feel like I had enough detail or information that would be of value to anybody, so I didn't publish those results. So now you've done some research on some numbers, on why you feel the numbers have decreased. And I personally don't feel like everything sits with USA Swimming. I think we all collectively are involved in what's happening in our environment. But you've pulled some numbers on what's happening within our industry. What have you found? And just purely from a numerical or statistical perspective, without adding any of your thoughts behind it yet, what did you find as far as our industry and the decline in numbers? 

MATT - 00:06:59 

I think it's important to put in two qualifiers when we're talking about athlete retention, and the first one is that when we're looking at athlete retention, swimmer retention, strictly from a USA Swimming membership year to year perspective, and we're talking about the whole team or across the board membership in 2023 to 2024, for example, one of the things that I think gets included in that number, that necessarily skews the number to make it go lower is the inclusion of high school seniors who have graduated and are no longer involved with their club program. At the very least, we know the numbers. Swimmers that are high school athletes that move on to swim in college, that number is very, very low.  

00:07:42 

I think if you isolate that to USA Swimming-only members, the number goes up a little bit, as opposed to high school-only members, the number goes up a little bit. But still, most swimmers, I would say maybe if 50% of the USA Swimming members who are seniors in high school go on to swim in college, I think that's high. I think that's very high, actually. I don't know the exact number, but just off of my general perspective, it's high.  

00:08:09 

So those swimmers, 50% of them definitely aren't registering with USA Swimming the following year. And then you look at those that are going on to swim in college, how many of them are actually going to universities that are asking them or requiring them or they feel it's necessary for them to get a USA Swimming membership in the following year. So that number really, those graduating seniors really throw off the overall retention number. And so I think it's important to keep that in mind when we're looking at it.  

00:08:40 

You see a number that's in the sixties, we can equate that to school. 66%, I think it was for 2023 in retention. That's a d. Thats not a very good score at all. But what we have to look at is the fact that those graduating seniors, that's the victory. They've been retained for a period of years within their program, within USA Swimming, and they've graduated. We've celebrated them. We've brought them to our banquet and given them an award for being a graduating senior. But it hurts the overall retention. The second figure that I think we got. 

RENATA - 00:09:13 

Can I just stop you for a second? I really love the fact that you said that we should be celebrating that because I think that's true. Like, we've nurtured those athletes to move all the way through the system because typically it's not just someone who comes in at 15 years old that actually stays in the program. They've been in the program for a while. So you're right. I think that we need a little bit more celebration in those efforts and we should separate out those numbers. All right, so what's the second one? 

MATT - 00:09:43 

And the second one is the fact that there's swimmer retention and swimmer participation overall in the country, and then there's USA Swimming membership. And we know that there have been teams who have decided to take all or a large portion of their athletes and not register them with USA Swimming, register them with another organization for the insurance purposes. Right. What does that mean? It just means that they're registered somewhere else. It's not USA Swimming. So it takes away from the overall revenue of the organization.  

00:10:12 

But the important thing to me is that they're still participating, they're still involved in the sport, they're still getting the benefits that you mentioned in the very beginning of this conversation that we all get from this sport that go beyond. So those two big things, I think. Are we're talking summer retention within USA Swimming or are we talking about overall participation? And I think the overall participation numbers are probably at the very least at or above pre-pandemic levels at this time, which is great. There's kids that are getting the benefits from it, and that's an awesome thing. 

RENATA - 00:10:44 

Have you looked at the AAU numbers? Have you looked at those to be able to include those in your research? 

MATT - 00:10:52 

I haven't. I did a little bit of research trying to find, for example, AAU numbers, and I couldn't get. They don't put out, or at least I couldn't find in the amount of time that I was doing research. Research on it. They don't put out a membership report as robust and detailed as USA Swimming does. Okay. And USA Swimming has an outlet where media outlets like SwimSwam or Swimming World are picking it up and publishing it and making it readily available.  

00:11:20 

But, to me, the win is there's a lot of participation going on. There's a lot of kids involved in the sport. There's tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of kids who are in the bullpen, so to speak, taking swim lessons with all the different swim schools that are popping up around the country. So, kids are participating in the sport, and that's a really good thing. 

RENATA - 00:11:47 

Okay. So is there anything like, what is your interpretation of the numbers through your, like, if you were to add in your thoughts on what you've seen about the numbers, is there anything else you would add to that? 

MATT - 00:12:00 

You look around or you talk to people or you read comments on an article online and people are trying to pinpoint specific reasons as to why USA Swimming retention numbers have dipped. Obviously, when you compare it to 2021, there's going to be a significant dip because there was a lot of people who were not participating any longer or not participating for a period of time during the pandemic. So it looks bad by comparison. But what we have to look at is, I think there's never really one reason as to why numbers have dipped. I'm sure there's multiple reasons, and we can talk about everything.  

00:12:42 

15-20 years ago, we were talking about bathing suits for boys and how that was something that was a deterrent for participation in competitive swimming. And that's when the jammer started becoming a more popular option over the brief for boys participating in the sport. From the cost of the USA Swimming membership to the cost of running a team and the need to produce or put on swim meets that aren't necessarily congruent with what other youth sports competitions are like. I think for a lot of different reasons.  

00:13:21 

That's why we're in the position or that's why we're reading the articles about retention, about membership numbers that we're reading right now. I do. I fully believe that we were kind of in a different position after the Tokyo Olympics than we normally are. Normally there's a big bump in registration, and there was a big bump in from 2021 to 2022 just because a lot of people were out of the sport during the pandemic. But it wasn't the same feeling coming out of the Tokyo Olympics as what you get from a normal Olympics.  

00:13:57 

It was a different experience that we all had, and I'm excited for what we're experiencing now with what's going on in Indianapolis, with Olympic trials, to what's going to happen in Paris next month. I very much expect, at least from my perspective, for our program in South Jersey to see a significant bump in interest and summers attending evaluations and tryouts to overall registration. That Olympic bump that we really haven't experienced in the same way since the Rio 2016 games, we're going to really experience at this time, and it's going to be great to see. 

RENATA - 00:14:32 

That's interesting. You have a positive take. There's other coaches that I've been talking to behind the scenes that don't think that we're going to get that big bump this year. So it's really interesting to see how it's going to pan out. Right? Everybody's guessing, everybody's got it. Everybody has a crystal ball, right? 

MATT - 00:14:48 

Maybe I'm just overly hopeful, but to me, there's such a great groundswell feeling that happens with Olympic trials. And these Olympic trials has been amazing. Yeah, absolutely special. From the venue to 21,000 people being there to world records being broken at Olympic trials, some incredible races that we've seen already and that we're still going to see that men's hundred freestyle, which as we're recording this, is going to take place tonight. I'm so excited to watch that. That's going to be a great race, especially with multiple guys from New Jersey involved in the event.  

00:15:25 

It's going to be a lot of fun. And the other thing is, I think the narrative out there has been that the United States, that the rest of the world has caught up to the United States at the international level, and that's certainly apparent. But I do really believe, when all said and done in Paris, that the United States is going to be on top of the medal podium, the medal table, and the gold medal table. I think that's how it's going to work. I think our coaches, our support staff are the best in the world, know how to get our athletes ready, and it's going to be a lot of fun to watch. 

RENATA - 00:16:00 

Yeah, I agree. I agree. All right, well, let's hope that you are correct and the other coaches are not. So one of the areas that a lot of clubs are trying to put in place as far as programming is concerned, to deal with capturing other types of members is this recreational or development type programming? And I just wanted to get your take on this and listen, I know a lot has to do whether or not you own your water or have enough control of your water space to add an additional program. But what clubs are finding is that there's a good subset of older swimmers, or let's just go from eleven up that want to swim.  

00:16:52 

They want to be involved in swimming, but they don't want the heavy workout schedule and they don't want the heavy competition cycle or yeah, cycle. So what they're trying to do is they are trying to offer a more recreational side program so you're able to capture a membership, still reach that audience of swimmers who love swimming, but just don't want the heavy performance side and they're trying to open that avenue. Do you think that this customer has always been there or is it something new that the clubs are trying to? 

MATT - 00:17:26 

I think that customer has always been there. I think there are more of them now. Thinking back 20 years or even 35 years, when I was still an age-group swimmer, swimming was in many ways the only year-round sport, at least in South Jersey. There weren't lights on fields, so we weren't having soccer practice after daylight savings time started. Lacrosse was not lacrosse, and field hockey, which are much, much bigger, at least in our area now, as club sports weren't. There was nowhere for me to go to try any of those sports.  

00:17:59 

There are so many more options for kids to participate in different youth sports and that is pulling families in multiple different directions. They're not able to 100% commit to one sport, nor should they at this, that 11,12,13,14 age group. Now what we have to do a better job of is meeting people where they're at. And when I say meeting people, I mean customers, I mean parents. Because a lot of the time this decision is a family decision that's being driven by the parents. Yeah, kids are struggling with wanting to go to practice four or five times a week. I totally understand that.  

00:18:40 

It's a struggle in my house with my 13-year-old son, but also parents. 20 years ago, how many families were single-income families compared to what it is today? It's more necessary today. So you have more parents out of the house, not having enough family time, not having enough time to get everything done. Like maybe a family would have had a number of years ago. So they're not interested in that level of commitment like you mentioned. So we have to meet them where they at. 

RENATA - 00:19:11 

So that affects their ability to volunteer or their willingness to volunteer, which I think has always been a problem, even from when we were young. But I think even now, because there's more pressure on a two-income household nowadays that there's even less time. And unfortunately, we are in a sport that only runs off of the back of volunteers, you have to have volunteers, right? So I think that's also one of the reasons why we've seen a decline or interest in the volunteerism as well. 

MATT - 00:19:44 

And you're bringing up something that I saw you write about very recently, talking about doing a better job explaining the sport. You were speaking specifically about explaining the professionalism of coaches. But also, I think, as an extension of that, explaining how this sport operates. It's not an apples to apples comparison when you're comparison swimming in lacrosse or swimming in baseball specifically because the amount of money that is needed to run a swimming team from a facility standpoint, is exorbitantly more than what it takes to run an outdoor sport. Just running a pool itself costs a lot of money. So if you're a team that has your own water and you're running the pool yourself, you've got a lot of expenses that you've got to meet. And if you're a team like mine that rents per time. 

RENATA - 00:20:28 

Or even If you're renting, let's be fair, a lot of these institutions or these businesses who own poles that are renting them out like they're, those charges are not cheap. They're passing on that, that high expense onto the club. So no matter what, I think water is always like the biggest expense for clubs. And then you add on or you tack on the professionalism of our coaches. These people have chosen this as their profession, as their full-time job. So they are not the dad who's volunteering a couple hours after dinner. So there's also the pay underneath that. 

MATT - 00:21:05 

Yep, it all goes into it. And that's what causes the need to run swimmings for teams. That's what causes the need for a higher price point per month than it is for other sports. It's just, it's a different sport. 

RENATA - 00:21:21 

So do you think clubs should be offering this recreational track as a matter of practice if they can afford to give the water space for. I'm thinking more from a business perspective, I'm thinking more of a long-term viability, serving a customer, and also helping with the financial stability of the organization. Because you never know. I mean, yes, it'll bring in money, but you also never know if for some reason this twelve-year-old has wanted to go down the recreational track. But like at 14, this kid, just like, all of a sudden takes off and swimming, and then chooses swimming as their sport and wants to flip over to the performance side or the competitive side. So you just never know. But from your perspective, do you feel clubs should really grab hold of this track or this program for their long-term viability? 

MATT - 00:22:15 

I absolutely think that they should. You mentioned a swimmer might not be as into it or want that level of commitment, eleven and twelve, but if you can just keep them in the building, once they leave the building, it's harder to bring them back. Just keep them in the building, keep them coming to practice once or twice a week, throw a carry out there. Maybe every three months. Every quarter, you have an inner squad meet, strictly run during your practice time. Not a sanctioned meet at all, but just run during practice time for those recreational swimmers to give them an opportunity to race. Because I think. 

RENATA - 00:22:51 

And have fun. 

MATT - 00:22:53 

Yeah, have fun. Competition definitely keeps kids in the sport. We can have conversations with other people about what those competitions should look like, but think about just running something. An Inter squad meet just during practice. Encourage them to separate them into teams. And you have the blue team and the white team, and they wear their colors and they're cheering. Make it fun for them. Get the coaches to buy in, to sell it to the swimmers, to sell it to the parents. That's a great thing. One other thing I'll mention is when it comes to if you have enough pool space.  

00:23:27 

When I had the opportunity to own Greater Philadelphia Aquatics, that came in 2008, the first phone call I made was to Jim Wood, who was former president of USA Swimming and owner of Berkeley Aquatic Club in New Jersey. Just because I knew he was a very successful club owner and I wanted to speak with him about how I could make this work. And he said to me, if I have six lanes, I'll take five lanes for our team and one lane for swim lessons. Because he knew that swim lessons got kids in the door, got them involved, helped pay the bills.  

00:24:04 

You get more per hour per lane for in terms of revenue from a swim lesson participant than you do for a team participant. But his point was, find ways to be creative, to get more people into your program, bring more revenue into your program. If there's a way to do it, you got to search it out. Now, I'm not saying it's possible in every single situation. But I think more people, if they got creative, they'd be able to figure out how to meet the needs of that level of athlete. 

RENATA - 00:24:33 

Yeah, I agree. I agree. And it's just maximizing plane space, right, or pool space. So and it's really just going back to the drawing board and making sure that you're using your, your water wisely and seeing if you can't offer that opportunity. All right, so another area that we wanted to talk about, or that is really happening at the same time, is that we are experiencing coaches leaving the profession. And I have my perspective that I developed through my business and working with several clients. But I'd like to hear yours first, because, well, the audience has heard my perspective over and over again, but I really would like to hear your take on why are coaches leaving the profession. 

MATT - 00:25:22 

I know, I'll just take it from our perspective in South Jersey, and it's not just mine, it's in speaking with Paul Donovan, the head coach and CEO of Jersey Wahoos, and Peter Holcroft at South Jersey Aquatic Club, Brian Elko at Seahawks Swim Club, Egg Harbor Township Seahawks. Our biggest, I guess, well, or lake that we were fishing from for coaches in the past was swimmers who were moving on and they were moving into the education profession, becoming teachers. And that lake is drying up. There's less and less people in our area that are going to school to become teachers. So we have an inability to tap into that resource.

00:26:04 

Unfortunately, I think the same reason that people aren't going into the teaching profession as much as they were in the past can be seen as to why we're losing coaches in the swimming profession or swim coaching profession. And that's because it doesn't pay nearly as well as other professions do. And there's also always been that conflict with parents. I think the conflict, unfortunately, I was having a great conversation with my father, actually, about this yesterday. As it pertains to. There's a very successful softball coach in New Jersey who just resigned, and the reason was he was not.  

00:26:45 

He was struggling with some issues with parents who wanted more playing time or wanted to have, uh, voice in who was getting playing time and batting order and things like that. But most of all, he wasn't being backed up by the administration of the school district, principal, the school board, he superintendent didn't have his back. Well, if your, your supervisors don't have your back you're not going to get very far, and you're going to be more likely to say, all right, I'm out here by myself. I'm not going to go much further with this.  

00:27:16 

So in terms of something else you've said, it's very important that when it comes to how coaches are treated, how we expect families to operate within our program, that communication is brought to the forefront and having a very open communication in the beginning of the season as to this is who we are, this is what our goals are. These are what our goals are. This is how we expect you to direct any questions you might have. 

00:27:49 

And most of all, as long as our coaches are following the code of conduct, following the team code of conduct, and how we expect them to conduct themselves and coach the kids, we're going to have our coaches back 100%. If there's anything that goes against that, we'll definitely follow our established protocols for how we deal with it. But just because a parent is upset that their swimmer isn't getting faster doesn't mean that we're going to immediately side with the parent over the coach. 

RENATA - 00:28:20 

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that you said that as long as they're following the coach's code of conduct and everything, because. Okay, I want to start with the fact that coaches don't do themselves any favors, by and large, as an industry, okay. Because of the ego that they need as a head coach. That ego causes them a lot of problems when it comes to having to report into a board and having to manage others and lead others. And that is where, like, that head coach profession has really changed, because, yes, head coaches have always been over other coaches in the club, but they never really developed them or paid attention to them.  

00:28:58 

And now they're expected to also be leaders or managers of adults. This is the industry that we're in. So if I were just to table that and put that to the side, that if coaches really made sure that they did the right things for themselves, for their own integrity, things would go a lot easier. But from my perspective, a lot of these parents, like, have no concept about the amount of time and hours and lack of support that these coaches have. They put in tremendous hours, and all they think about is, well, they're only on deck 2 hours a day.  

00:29:35 

Well, no, they're actually probably on deck 5 to 6 hours a day. And then they're planning and doing all the administrative work during the day. Now, I'm talking about your full-time coaches. Right. But so there's a lot in there just because you only see them x hours during your kid's workout. That doesn't mean that's the only hours that are working. And usually, they have this false sense of. So they should only be making x. Right. And not actually treating the professional as the professional that they are. And then we have that mix of parents that just.  

00:30:07 

They want to be in the middle of it and boards not feeling strong enough or secure enough to say, this is a business. This is how we run this organization. If you're going to complain about X, Y, and Z, we understand you have a right to complain about that, but that's not how we run this business. There's plenty of other clubs to go to because a lot of boards allow themselves. I'm going to use that word, those words allow themselves to be held hostage because they're scared of losing one family. Everybody's going to leave.  

00:30:43 

No, what you're doing is you're standing behind your principals, you're standing behind your staff, you are standing behind your business, as you should be, and not allowing a parent who just wants to be vocal to get their way. What are you teaching? Are you running a business or are you just trying to serve this one family? So I think that there's a really big mix of, like, I think the coaches have a lot of ownership in how they handle themselves.  

00:31:11 

And I think clubs that have parent boards don't do the right things up front to train their new board members on. This is your responsibility. This is not your responsibility. We stand behind our coaching staff. If we've got problems, we talk about it behind the scenes, not on deck. We don't do rumors, all of that kind of stuff? And I just feel like. I feel like coaches are leaving because they're not valued well enough. 

MATT - 00:31:39 

Oh, that's definitely part of it. Yeah, 100%. That is definitely part of it. You mentioned properly training boards. Even taking it a step further, the board as a whole, not just necessarily the new members, but understands this is how we operate, and this is why we operate in this way. So our budget is based off of this. Well, if we lose one family, is that going to affect our budget? Okay, then what do we need to do to mitigate it? Getting to this situation with a family requesting a transfer or threatening to transfer out of the program? Because if you start to appease one person, then you got to start appeasing everybody. They can get somewhere with it. 

RENATA - 00:32:17 

Then you're always changing your booty. Yeah. And I think, listen, if you're worried about the money situation, because of one family leaving, you got bigger problems, right? 

MATT - 00:32:29 

Yeah, that's true. And I think from a coach's perspective, I was a swim coach for a long time. I definitely would have put myself into this category when I was a coach. There's an extreme amount of tunnel vision focused on what do we need to do right now to get to where we need to go in a couple of months, in a couple of years, whatever it may be, and they're not able to see a 360-degree view of everything. It's just right here. Oh, this kid missed practice on Tuesday. We got it. And it's our whatever day. We need to make sure that they get that and don't have a recovery day, that tunnel vision can expand into other areas where they're so focused on one thing, so focused on losing one family and what it could mean in the future, they don't realize that maybe it's addition by subtraction sometimes. 

RENATA - 00:33:18 

Yes, absolutely. Because they're probably. Especially if it's a problem family that's whipping up a lot of crap up in the stands. There's probably a whole larger subset of parents that really wishes this parent would leave. And you have no idea how much you could fix the culture of your organization if you don't tell the problem families to either get their shit in order or to leave. Right.  

00:33:45 

And then what you've done is you've improved the culture of your organization as long as you handle it the right way, but you improve the culture of the organization and you may actually have more people step forward to be involved when they have the fear of the problem individual being gone. But I, again, I don't think we do ourselves any favors because we don't support our coaches in the right way, and we also don't hold our coaches accountable a lot of times to behave in the right way. But we also have to know what is our responsibility and what isn't our responsibility in order for that relationship to be solid and to benefit the sport. 

MATT - 00:34:26 

It goes towards coach education a little bit here. Yeah, education out there is great. There's so many different ways that we can, as a coach, you can go online to YouTube, you can go to go swim, you could go to the USA Swimming education hub, you can go to ASCA. You can go to ISCA and hear talks, read articles, watch videos of how to make someone better in the water. But there's not nearly enough on how to be a better leader, how to lead yourself how to know who you are so that you can lead from those strengths. And I think that's the one place that I feel coach education really needs to go, because if they learn how to do that, they learn how to communicate properly, they'll be able to mitigate and meet these situations before they become explosive. 

RENATA - 00:35:13 

Yeah. Jamie, the executive director at  Middle Atlantic Swimming, he's been pushing me on that one. And then I have a club now that's just hired me to do some management courses for all of their coaches who are responsible or lead others. So right now I'm writing a course on how to, or some workshops on how to be a good manager from the perspective of a youth sports coach and how do you lead other adults. 

00:35:41 

So I'm jumping into it, but I think there's room for other people to be in this as well. And I think that you're right. I think that's a whole area that we completely miss and we generalize it. And, yes, there's a million different leadership and management books out there, but sometimes we need to kind of siphon it down to the profession that we're talking about. So that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to take the big concepts and bring it down and relevant to the swim coach and even the board from their perspective as well. 

MATT - 00:36:10 

So, Renata, I have a question for you. In your experience, and you've done a lot of work with a lot of different clubs in a large geographic range across the country? Do you feel that clubs are earmarking and actually spending enough money on coach education? 

RENATA - 00:36:25 

No, because I think they leave it to the head coach to decide to put that budget in there or request that budget, and often the head coach doesn't even know. Like, they don't think about it because they didn't come up under that. Right. So what they think about is, okay, we have to go to ASCA or ISCA meetings, so they'll plan for that big one or two major conferences or something with USA Swimming, and they don't think about what are the smaller ways that we can develop the coaches. Right.  

00:36:57 

So that could be utilizing somebody like me or you, or it could be engaging a mentor in the industry to where maybe an age group coach can go to another age group coach that's doing really well and share, have deck time, and all that kind of stuff. I don't think that the coaches really think about. They think about the big ticket items, and I think a lot of times they need that, more individual help. So coaches are just not trained to think about, okay, what do I need? What do I need for me? What do I need for my team and how do I go get that and who offers it?  

00:37:33 

And I wish they would spend more time thinking that through. And one of the things that I do push with all of my coaches is, what are you doing to develop your coaches? What are you doing? Are your meetings just admin-focused? If they are, that's got to stop. You've got so much knowledge in-house. Every single team has knowledge in-house. So share it. Right. Not everything has to come from the head coach. But what are you doing? What are you upskilling?  

00:37:58 

How are you doing these kinds of things? And if you send somebody to a conference, they need to come back and they need to train everybody else on what they learn at the conference. That way your money's being used wisely. That's a double check on my perspective. But I think that there's so many ways that coaches could be providing support and help for their other coaches or asking for it for themselves, and it's an afterthought, and I wish it wasn't. 

MATT - 00:38:23 

It lends itself to experiential learning. When you mention about going to conferences and coming back and talking to people, we go to conferences. I went to the USA Swimming convention many, many times, ISCA, and you have a notebook full of ideas, and then you come home and all of a sudden your email inbox is full and you have to catch up on things that happened at practice, especially if you're the head coach, reconnecting with all your, and all those ideas you had are sitting in a notebook somewhere.  

00:38:52 

But how adults learn, it's not just being talked to, it's an opportunity to experience it a little bit differently when we get a chance to talk about it with others. I would love to see these conventions, these conferences leave time for coaches within each talk, even to have conversations and not thinking that you can. Oh, you'll learn more in the bar by going there after each day, getting an opportunity to think about what they've just learned, journal about what they've just learned, and talk about how they're going to implement it when they go home. 

RENATA - 00:39:27 

Yeah, because often when we do the talking head stuff and I'm included in that. I've talked at ASCA and the College Coaches Association, and I think that when you're talking to a very large audience of different experience levels and work history, you have to stay high level. And sometimes it's really hard for someone who's taken dubious notes. Like you said, they've taken a full notebook of notes. But how do I take that concept and apply it to my class club specifically?  

00:39:56 

Which is why it's really important to make sure that you're having those conversations in the bar or you're taking time when you're standing out in between talks and saying, hey, I saw you were in this talk. Have you tried any of this? What worked for you? What didn't work for you? Or hiring somebody like us who, we try to do the actionable piece, right? I try not to do high level, and I'm going to tell you how to apply it to your organization. So I think you're right. If they can find time to find a peer mentor or just someone to talk to, to say, hey, I'm thinking about this, have you tried it? What worked?  

00:40:31 

What didn't work? What do you see? The pitfalls are just having that someone to bounce ideas off of is amazing and it will allow you, no matter how packed your. Your email box is. I think if you're really excited about initiative, you're going to do whatever you need to do to get that initiative across at your club or your location. But sometimes we just need that support from someone else who's been through it or has an idea or something like that just to make it real and take that concept, to make it real for that organization. 

MATT - 00:41:02 

Yeah. USA Swimming, for those of us on the inside, it takes a lot of hits for numerous different reasons. But to me, I think. I still think USA Swimming is the gold standard of national governing bodies in the United States. We're still the Olympic sport that's head and shoulders above all the other Olympic sports in the country. That being said, the lack of a strong coach mentoring program, and one was, I guess, about ten years ago, tried to get one off the ground, provided grants to LSCs to get it going, and just for some reason, it wasn't able to really catch on in the country. And I think that's one thing.  

00:41:42 

You mentioned it. If we could have a strong coach mentoring program that went beyond the technical aspect of the sport, that would not just strengthen USA Swimming, that would strengthen each club's bottom line overall over time, getting coaches to understand who they are, how to be a great leader, how to implement the things that they're hearing from other people, how to communicate with each other, how to communicate with parents how to take care of themselves.  

00:42:11 

We talked about coach wellness turned into a buzzword or a buzz phrase and there were some initiatives taken behind it, but not nearly enough to take care of coaches, to teach coaches how to take care of themselves. We could do all those things with a great coach mentoring program. I'm really excited that Abby Fish, Swim Like a Fish has started something along those lines with some great coaches serving as coaches, able to be mentored by some great coaches. And I hope that can grow from there. 

RENATA - 00:42:40 

Yeah. I think. I used to think that the mentorship wasn't happening because everybody felt like they had, like some golden insight that they didn't want to share with anybody else. And swimming is swimming, right? So I really don't know that that's. I'm starting to learn that that's not really the case. I think what I see often witness when I'm sitting in these ASCA conferences or meetings and stuff, the experienced coaches, I think, sometimes are afraid to give that direct mentorship because they're like, I don't know your club, I don't know your situation.  

00:43:15 

And I think sometimes they're afraid to give them really specific information because they don't want it to be the wrong information for that club. But what they're failing to understand is they're not going to take your idea well, they may, but they're not going to take your idea word for word and go apply it just like you did. But what they're going to do is they're going to take that information and go, this will work for us because of x or this won't work for us because of x. So they can apply what will work and adapt or change what won't work. It's still valuable information to share and I really, I wish they would. I wish they would get into a little bit lower than that high level. 

MATT - 00:43:55 

I guess it's very possible. It just needs to be put together and executed. 

RENATA - 00:44:02 

Yeah. Absolutely. All right. So I know that we've talked a bit about the state of today, about the retention of our athletes and the retention of our coaches, but I hope you don't mind. I want to ask you at least one of the questions that I typically ask other coaches so the audience can learn from those different perspectives. The question I want to ask you is, given that you're a coach-owned team, how do you approach ensuring that you have strong operational processes in place? And I'm sure there was a time where you probably did it all right, and you tried to make sure everything happened, but now how do you make sure that you've got things in place so when you're growing, you're able to handle that growth from an operational perspective? 

MATT - 00:44:50 

That's a great question. I think very often there's a prevailing thought out there that all teams should be coach-owned. And while I see the value in that, I don't see the value in just going to a coach-owned program if that coach is not in tune with how to operate a business. I was very lucky or coming into my position as owner of the program. I came to it with a master's degree in sports administration from Temple University. So I had training on how to handle a lot of different aspects of running a sports-centric business, but not everybody has that. 

00:45:31 

So if you have the ability to find not just an administrator, not somebody who can collect money and things like that, someone who truly knows how to run a business, if that's not you, that's the first place that you need to. That you need to start with that. You need to have someone involved with running the business that really, truly knows how to run a business, knows how to negotiate contracts, knows how to handle questions from customers. You can teach people how to conduct themselves with customers with a high level of service. All those things are. That's where you got to start. There needs to be that business operational mindset. It can't just be an athletic performance mindset. 

RENATA - 00:46:13 

Yeah, and I think like all startups go through that. Right. I don't care what business you're in. It always starts with the one person who just tries to do everything and the one thing that you learn is that this is not my skill set. I'm making some money. I want to grow this area. I need someone so I'm going to move money over to hiring someone to do that. And I think that's a very good point. Like understanding that there's a lot of clubs that are hiring coaches as CEOs or whatever that top administrative, operational, administrative role is.  

00:46:45 

And I think that it's very. It's going to be a really small percentage of coaches that can do the coaching aspect and can lead a business and run a business. There's such diverse skill sets, and I'm not saying that there are because I've met a few coaches that do really well at it. Right. So I'm not saying it's not possible, but what I am saying is recognizing that they are different skill sets and putting the right people in place to help support you is the right avenue. Just supporting what you were saying. 

MATT - 00:47:17 

If you're trying to do those dual roles, and it's not just limited to swim coaches, any entrepreneur, when they get started, they're wearing five, six different hats. But as a coach, very likely, if you're the coach owner, you're probably coaching the highest-level athletes. So just standing on deck alone, you're looking at 20,22 hours travel to nationals, to sectionals, to all kinds of different meets. That's taking you away from the business. When I. And I was doing that, I was the head coach, and we had success. We were doing very well. We were generating revenue. Our team was growing, and I was still seeing success with my athletes.  

00:47:58 

I was a national team coach, coached a swimmer to a national title and a spot on the world championship team, and lots of swimmers to make junior nationals and move on to college and things like that. But I still wasn't as best as I could be as the owner or as the coach because I was wearing two hats still, at that time, 2017, when I hired a head coach and just simply focused on the administrative side of things, it really opened the door for our program to grow. Our revenue has increased significantly. Our swim team size has doubled. In our swim lesson, program size has tripled. And that's just because I wasn’t wearing multiple hats. 

RENATA - 00:48:37 

Thank you for saying that, because I know there's coaches out there that are shaking their head like y'all are full of shit right now. Right? I know there are. That are listening to this in their cars or driving to practice. Right. But the bottom line is, if you can't focus on some of the operational things, you're always going to have coach turnover, membership turnover, and you're always going to be chasing that dollar. How the hell have I run out of money again? Right. So just from that perspective, thank you for saying that. Your revenue increased, your programming increased, and it's because you had dedicated focus. Now, do you coach listener out there need to have a full-time operations person if you can't afford it? No. But hire the help as you can get it and grow that role so it grows the business. So, yeah. 

MATT - 00:49:25 

And that's something. That's exactly what Frank Bush said to me when I had a chance to sit down with him once. I was wrestling with the idea, am I going to stop coaching and be the full-time administrator and hire a head coach? And he said, or focus on coaching and hire a full-time administrator to do the stuff that you do on that side of things? So it doesn't have to be completely giving up coaching. If that's what you love, then there's a way to make it work. You just have to take the time to talk to people to figure out the best way forward for your organization. 

RENATA - 00:49:54 

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. All right, one last thing I brought up earlier, that you have a Substack, so talk to everybody about what that is, what you do, and how they can find more information about it. 

MATT - 00:50:07 

Sure. I'm chuckling because I'm not really sure how to answer that question. I don't know where it's going. To me, it was an opportunity to just practice writing. I've always enjoyed writing. I've been someone who journals daily for a number of years now, almost a decade, I guess. And I just. I really enjoy writing. And it was an opportunity for me to kind of branch out and not just write for myself, but right for others. It's called INSET Leadership and you can find it at matthewsprang.substack.com. I'd love for you to join me there.  

00:50:45 

And I'm just kind of writing about things that come to my head. I'm trying to produce one article a week and post it up there. Substack is a community for, largely a community for people who are writers. I don't necessarily consider myself to be a writer, but it's a good place for me to put thoughts out there. I've done put out articles about leadership. I've put out articles about athlete retention, put out articles about effort and excellence. And there's really no common theme just yet. It's just an opportunity for me to swimming part. 

RENATA - 00:51:24 

Is swimming your coming thing? 

MATT - 00:51:25 

I guess it is. It's funny, you mentioned earlier, you talked about how at times you hated swimming. I don't know if those were your exact words, but that's three, before I graduated from college, three separate times did I stop swimming and step away from it multiple times in my career, going back to 1998 when I first started coaching, did I stop coaching and do something else? Get away from swimming altogether? But I come back to it, and every time I come back to it, I realize how much I love the sport and there's certain aspects of it that I don't necessarily love. So with the Substack, at first, I started on, I'm talking about leadership. I'm trying to work with people beyond youth sports, beyond swimming. But like you said, I keep coming back. The common theme now seems to be the story keeps bringing you back. Yep. Keeps bringing me back. You stick with what you know right? 

RENATA - 00:52:14 

Yeah. Wonderful. All right, so you guys make sure you subscribe to Matt Substacks, please. All right, Matt, thank you very much for coming on the show. I really appreciate your insight and I hope to have you back on another topic. 

MATT - 00:52:27 

I would love to come back. I really enjoyed this. Renata, thanks for having me. 

RENATA - 00:52:31 

Oh, no problem. All right, everyone, thank you for listening and please subscribe, rate, and review this podcast so we can reach a bigger audience such as yourself. And don't forget to visit the website, yoursportsresourceresource.com, where you can find articles and tools as well as more info on how we can work with you directly. Finally, remember what is common sense isn’t always common practice. Put what you learn into action. Don't just be good, be good at it. Thanks, everybody.