Have you ever wondered how trauma shapes our minds and bodies? Join Dr. Tami and Harold on the "PsychologistSay" podcast as she engages in a conversation about unraveling the complexities of trauma and PTSD in honor of National Awareness Month for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Dr. Tami kicks off the episode by identifying how trauma manifests through both direct and vicarious experiences, leaving lasting imprints on our mental and emotional health. Learn practical tips to safeguard yourself from vicarious trauma, especially when dealing with triggering content.
Next, we venture into how trauma is perceived differently by each individual. Using familiar scenarios, such as the disappointment of not making a sports team versus the terror of surviving a car accident, we illuminate how personal history and perception play pivotal roles in shaping traumatic experiences. We also delve into the physiological responses that follow trauma, emphasizing that every person's reaction is unique and worth understanding.
Finally, Dr. Tami explores the spectrum of trauma responses, from acute stress to PTSD, providing a clear distinction between different levels of trauma and their impacts. Through relatable examples like encountering a bobcat, she explains the natural fight, flight, or freeze responses and how the brain stores frightening memories. We discuss the various treatments available for trauma and stress reactions, offering hope and practical advice for those affected. Additionally, we address historical and generational trauma, particularly within Indian country, underscoring the critical role of psychological treatment in healing these deep-rooted wounds. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that aims to foster understanding and offer strategies for recovery.
Your support matters to us! Please give us a follow on each of our platforms to stay updated on what we're doing at PsychologistSay.
Have you ever wondered how trauma shapes our minds and bodies? Join Dr. Tami and Harold on the "PsychologistSay" podcast as she engages in a conversation about unraveling the complexities of trauma and PTSD in honor of National Awareness Month for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Dr. Tami kicks off the episode by identifying how trauma manifests through both direct and vicarious experiences, leaving lasting imprints on our mental and emotional health. Learn practical tips to safeguard yourself from vicarious trauma, especially when dealing with triggering content.
Next, we venture into how trauma is perceived differently by each individual. Using familiar scenarios, such as the disappointment of not making a sports team versus the terror of surviving a car accident, we illuminate how personal history and perception play pivotal roles in shaping traumatic experiences. We also delve into the physiological responses that follow trauma, emphasizing that every person's reaction is unique and worth understanding.
Finally, Dr. Tami explores the spectrum of trauma responses, from acute stress to PTSD, providing a clear distinction between different levels of trauma and their impacts. Through relatable examples like encountering a bobcat, she explains the natural fight, flight, or freeze responses and how the brain stores frightening memories. We discuss the various treatments available for trauma and stress reactions, offering hope and practical advice for those affected. Additionally, we address historical and generational trauma, particularly within Indian country, underscoring the critical role of psychological treatment in healing these deep-rooted wounds. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that aims to foster understanding and offer strategies for recovery.
Your support matters to us! Please give us a follow on each of our platforms to stay updated on what we're doing at PsychologistSay.
The following is a series of candid conversations. The content is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for seeking help from a mental health care professional. To learn more info regarding additional disclaimers, privacy policies and terms and conditions, please visit HelloDrTammycom.
Speaker 2:
Bonjour, welcome to Psychologist Say, a podcast where I talk about the psychology of everyday living. I'm your host, Dr Tammy, and I'm joined by co-host Harold. How are you doing today, Harold?
Speaker 1:
I'm doing great, dr Tammy, how are you?
Speaker 2:
I'm awesome. I know today we actually are going to have a conversation that's a bit of a heavy hitter, I would call it. It's focusing on trauma a bit, and so I just want to have a conversation about that, especially because it is National Awareness Month for post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, and so I think it's a really good time for us to kind of explain what that is. I don't want to go into a whole lot of detail. I just want to start a small conversation I know it's something that is very complex and will take multiple episodes to talk about all of the different angles associated with what it is and the different levels and the way that trauma can affect somebody.
Speaker 1:
Right, so trauma specifically, or are we talking about PTSD?
Speaker 2:
Right, great question, so let's just get right into it. So when somebody experiences a trauma and now for our listeners, again, remember this is a trigger warning. We're not purposely trying to bring up memories or have people feel uncomfortable, yet just talking about trauma and exploring some of this and listening can be a bit triggering for people. So I just want to put that disclaimer out there Be very aware of what your needs are and when you're listening, you can always take a break, pause, seek out resources online if you're feeling concerned about anything like this. So I just want to do that again this episode. Harold did have an experience where he felt a bit activated, right, oh, for sure.
Speaker 2:
Okay, good, so that's an important thing I think that I even want to talk about is anytime that you listen to individuals talking about something traumatic. So something that's traumatic is something that has, it's an injury, it's a hurt that is big enough to impact and kind of shake you a bit.
Speaker 1:
Like the injury of a mind.
Speaker 2:
Definitely. I mean part of trauma impacts the way your brain encodes information, what it remembers, what it stores, and it impacts your emotion. But it also is really visceral and it's stored in your body, is hurtful and opposite of what you would expect to happen, something that you are feeling very threatened or danger and extreme heightened, of not feeling safe because of an incident, and that's something that people can refer to as an actual trauma and that's something that people can refer to as an actual trauma. And so a trauma is something that basically you experience, that's living it. It can be vicarious, where it's happening to somebody else, but you're witnessing it, okay, or you're even hearing it, so it's a sensory experience that basically scares the shit out of you. I mean that's you know, for lack of a better way to explain it. It shakes you to your core, it scares you, okay.
Speaker 1:
So kind of summarize what you just said. There it's some kind of terrifying situation that you may not experience yourself. You could witness it or hear it, and that memory is stored in your mind and body. Perfect, okay.
Speaker 2:
It's a sensory, it is a mental picture. It is something that your body is, your brain is saying okay, that was dangerous. We need to remember every aspect of it to the best of our ability so that we can avoid that in the future.
Speaker 1:
So dangerous, so does it necessarily have to be something that a dangerous situation?
Speaker 2:
something that a dangerous situation well and and well, it's pairing it with something um like so, when we look at the the term ptsd, it's experiencing something, or seeing something, or feeling something, where you you were felt threatened for your life. Okay, so it's. It's something that shocked your system and really had you fearful for your survival in that mode.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
So that's where you can say, okay, oh, this. You know, I never experienced that, but, boy, I've seen that we can witness something where somebody else was in a situation where they maybe were threatened, and it can scare our, shock, our system as well.
Speaker 1:
So we live almost like vicariously through that another person's experience, in a way.
Speaker 2:
Right, that's one way and many people don't. They aren't aware of that. Many people don't. They aren't aware of that. So I'll often tell people if you can avoid looking at things, if you know. It's a tendency sometimes when there's something that happened, it could be like maybe a motor vehicle accident. Yeah, I would actually say look away, you know, if it's something that where it's already, where people are taking care of it, you know the authorities right If you don't have the option to act.
Speaker 2:
Right, there you go. Perfect, thank you. And so it's more about protect yourself, because your brain will encode that you may see something that is difficult for you to forget, and your brain will put you in that situation and it can re-experience that at a later date. And so it's almost. It's where it's good to know this. Even watching certain movies can be very triggering for some people, yeah, and they can get activated and I would then say, okay, so why are you watching that? Then, if it is having this response to you, can you limit your exposure to that versus?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah. So to build off of that, let's use the car accident example. Someone experienced or saw a car accident and saw something that changed them. They could experience that when watching a movie.
Speaker 2:
They may not know that it's related to that, but that's kind of this awareness of vicarious. So it's being very aware of what you're listening to. When somebody else has been hurt or traumatized or experienced something very difficult and they want to talk to you about it, and they want to talk to you about it, that's good awareness that you may be impacted and feel some of that trauma by listening to the details. Your brain starts to listen to this information and it can start to impact you. Yeah, so those are the things that I think are and that's why I started off with. Today we're talking a bit about trauma because it is PTSD Awareness Month, but I'm very aware that we have to take this talk very slow and just get started a bit with it, because I believe so many people are not aware of how triggers work and that's part of, I think, our professional responsibility as psychologists and therapists is to make sure you know that vulnerability that people could have when you're starting to talk about trauma and even explaining it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, people could have when you're starting to talk about trauma and even explaining it. Yeah, so it's a fine. It's like I'm trying to balance this. We're giving some information without overloading right now, because I know each episode on. Psychologists say we can take this from another avenue and people can learn and process and digest a little bit more, especially for those people who are very unfamiliar with what trauma is, what it looks like in their life, and so even my trainings, I start off with a huge disclaimer and trying to teach the grounding and understanding of what we are about to talk about before I start talking about it.
Speaker 1:
Right. So for somebody who may have had a traumatic experience and they're, maybe, they're unsure of, maybe, how it affects them, or if it is affecting them, how do they come to the realization that maybe it was stemming from that traumatic event, mm-hmm so there's something that's very common After we experience something, how did they come to the realization that maybe it was stemming from that traumatic event?
Speaker 2:
So there's something that's very common After we experience something that is and I can call it a hurt or an injury, because sometimes we can have these hurts that don't necessarily qualify as a trauma, okay. And so a trauma, something that was yucky, it didn't feel good, it hurt us, yet we wouldn't define that as traumatic unless it was something that basically, like what I said, shook you to your core, and so the word traumatic is way overused in our society.
Speaker 1:
I kind of always thought that yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. So like people get oh my gosh, that was traumatic. Yeah, you know, I hear that and I think well, you know, everybody gets to define traumatic, so it's not my job to say no, that's not traumatic for you.
Speaker 1:
But it's as a do you get what I'm saying? Yeah, I got an example. Let's. Let's say, say somebody works really hard at making the local sports team and they don't make it, and they're really hurt by that. Okay, that's not traumatic, right? It should be something else.
Speaker 2:
Boy, that would be a tough one for me as a therapist. I think I would struggle with that. To say that, no, I would say that's a hurt. Yeah, now remember, trauma is something that's it feels life-threatening. Okay, boy, that was an emotionally jarring. That really hurt that. I didn't make that team. Yeah, versus. I just experienced something that threatened my life.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I could have died.
Speaker 2:
I could have died, yeah, or I could have been severely injured.
Speaker 1:
Yeah injured.
Speaker 2:
So that's where I think people really have to look at the difference between something that is emotionally difficult and really sucks that really sucks. That I didn't make the team versus. That was so traumatic that I'm shaken to my core and I'm maybe having trouble sleeping. I'm scared to do the things I used to do. I'm now avoiding any thoughts or situations associated with this. So that's the kind of difference where PTSD can be associated with those kind of factors.
Speaker 2:
So even somebody let's say, let's go back to a vehicle accident where and this is North Dakota, it's very common where you could be driving and you hit a deer, oh yeah, that can be very traumatic to be driving in. This unpredictable event happens, and if it was a significant hit that triggered and jarred and could have been life-threatening and for some it is, it results in that, and for some it is, it results in that and then. So it is very common for the next time you drive, it's common for some people to have that reaction of oh my gosh, increased heart rate, nervousness, scanning, hitting the brakes more often it's common to have that increased anxiety, stress and alertfulness after something like that would happen, and would that occur, like every time they drive, or maybe just now and then even?
Speaker 2:
I think that is more where it's with, if it's associated with, trauma. A lot of times it's avoidance of the situation. So if they were driving in town maybe, where they haven't seen deer before, it wouldn't happen. But if they were on the highway, the open road where the event would have taken place.
Speaker 1:
There you go.
Speaker 2:
So those are the trigger warnings where your brain starts to scan and go okay, we're on the open road. Now. This was the last time you were on a road like this. This deer came out, hit your car. So guess what? I'm going to have you very scared and worried and hypervigilant, like very aware, so that you can be prepared and try to basically your mind's thinking. I can try to avoid doing this again. Yet what our body's doing is re-experiencing it as if it's happening.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so you're constantly on edge.
Speaker 2:
You're on edge, you're nervous, and this isn't everybody, remember, yep, some people can hit a deer and go oh wow, that was horrific.
Speaker 1:
Is my car okay? Is my car okay?
Speaker 2:
Good example. There are people and that's okay. I wish I could be more like that. You know where it's, it's, it's my brain goes oh okay. Well, now you got to go through insurance and and not maybe focus on, wow, I could have, I could have lost my life, I could have hurt somebody else, what if you know? What if, what if I swear you know? And so all these like really scary thoughts that accompany an event like that. So it is a matter of how people perceive and what they focus on.
Speaker 1:
So okay, so I hit a deer last year, okay, and my response was like I just said, you know, is my truck, okay, oh man, just this little panel came off, oh, we're good, just kept driving. So you could have, let's say, a traumatic experience, but not feel trauma, or not.
Speaker 2:
Right, and with that you know you could look at that as well. That was a that. Maybe that wasn't traumatic. You hit it on the side. Your car was dent. Now, if we took that same incident with somebody else and where the deer hit them straight, went through the windshield or something.
Speaker 2:
So that's where you start to look at it from a level of wow, that threatened my life. I think it would be really hard for anybody to go whoa, how's my car? If the event was this, deer is kind of coming up towards their windshield.
Speaker 1:
Yep, oh yeah, that'd be a whole different experience.
Speaker 2:
Yep, yep. So I think this is where we're getting into these great details of when people would overuse a word and now it's like, wow, that was, that was intense even, or that was unexpected. Yeah, that sucked, that sucked versus well, that was so, that was. Oh. I'm just traumatized now and this is where now, hopefully, individuals are helping understand it just a bit in terms of the level of threat that we're feeling in that moment, the level of threat that we're witnessing, even the level of threat or harm that we're hearing or harm that we're hearing. So those are things that are all part of where somebody can experience this level of what trauma is, depending on what the event is and what their perception and how their understanding of it is. So it's in. I mean, another way to get really complex is it can also really relate to how much past traumas you've had or hurts that are multiplying and compounding this stress response. Okay, so that one's you know so Can you give me an example grew up in a very dysfunctional home where there was, they were witnessing, maybe not experiencing.
Speaker 2:
They don't realize that that could. That. That's part of what trauma could look like, you know, until sometimes, when you listen to what's going on and listen to symptoms. They may then go oh wow, okay. So so I was actually living in a pretty traumatic child, you know, pretty traumatic. I was hearing these things, I was seeing things that were threatening or hurtful, I was scared, I didn't feel safe. Where, as adults or when I work with little kids, it's understanding that these areas it's very natural for us to feel. It's kind of like when something traumatic happens, you kind of start to view the world as either safe or unsafe, okay, and so there's this feeling of I'm not safe because I feel like I used to be, but this has happened now.
Speaker 1:
It changes your worldview.
Speaker 2:
Your view? Yes, and so after repeated incidents of something happening and they can be different then it's just adding more and more trauma to something that has already happened and that some people actually look more like they have complex trauma. Okay, so that's what I mean. There's so many levels of where we can talk about.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I've never even heard of complex trauma.
Speaker 2:
Right and most people wouldn't.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And it's something that, as a clinician who is trained and we work a lot with trauma and try to keep up it's looking at noticing how a lot of things that could look like several things, like mood disorders, sleep disorders, anger issues, poor concentration, difficulties in relationships and all these things sometimes can be looking at a history of how many traumatic events. What has led to this and it's not just as simple as oh that's. You know you experienced this incident and it's normal for you to have some heightened adjustment, so that's like an acute stress. So, like I said, after you hit after somebody maybe hits a deer and it was pretty um scary and could have been life threatening normal for a couple months when you're driving on that open road to get a, to get a bit tense.
Speaker 1:
Okay.
Speaker 2:
Uh, to have a bit of worry and fear that it may happen again. Um, maybe even want to avoid it. Have somebody drive for you for a while, right?
Speaker 1:
So acute stress as in Within those few months, right.
Speaker 2:
Short term, short term, and so that's a lot of people can go through that, where it doesn't turn into this full PTSD, okay, and anxiety, and they're unwanted, but they're popping up, sometimes having dreams or even, you know, kind of having a little bit of flashback. You know some people can jump while they're driving, yeah, like reflexes yeah like they see maybe a leaf blowing across, and then they think it's a yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yep, so that's that startle response. So that's all. A lot of times after an event, some people will experience that and it'll naturally just kind of go down after. Let's say, they continue to drive the more they face it versus avoid and the more times they drive without it happening. Eventually then they can go back down to a baseline.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, they become normal, I guess.
Speaker 2:
Try to be not so affected where, okay, that happened. But eventually they're starting to feel safe again.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, for the most part, they can still have intrusive thoughts. Oh yes of course, of the incident, but most of the time they're not as startled.
Speaker 2:
Their body isn't reacting, they're not jumping, or that avoidance isn't there. So they're, oh, okay, yep. So all of a sudden they're driving and they're realizing oh wow, I didn't even think about hitting a deer today. I just actually made it to you know. So it's a natural, that's very common. A lot of times that's what people can experience, can experience Now, when those symptoms that I talked about go on. Then you're looking at where that event was traumatic enough, where your brain is holding onto it and it's storing it as this fear and the body's storing it and it's very difficult to let it go.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
You know, it's very difficult to tell yourself well, that's just a memory, it's not going to happen. Your brain is, and when we think about it it's almost like the brain doesn't realize. It starts to re-experience as if you're there.
Speaker 1:
Mm-hmm, and that's all just from my understanding of what you're talking about here. That's all just kind of a I want to say, a defense mechanism, in a way to protect ourselves from the world.
Speaker 2:
That's a survival mechanism. Survival mechanism, yeah, this is our survival and this is the way our body stores terrifying information. Yeah, we are built to survive, so when something threatens our life, our existence, then it's something that we take note of. We try to remember it the best we can. Our body stores it because it's just like. This is something that you have to be very aware is out there and for your survival.
Speaker 1:
Yep, so I was just thinking of a little example of like assuming we're hunter-gatherers back in the day, there you go. And we're picking berries and we hear a stick crack, right, and we turn around. It's a bobcat or whatever. Right. Stick crack, right. And we turn around, it's a bobcat or whatever. Right, and we get away. But every time we hear that stick crack, we get tense, we get your fight or flight. Fight or flight.
Speaker 2:
Yep, your nervous system is set up to trigger survival mode when we feel threatened. And so that stick, you know that crack, you know that, even event happening once turning around and there's a bobcat yeah, that is. Even though the bobcat did not attack, the brain thought okay, this right.
Speaker 2:
We could die here. We could die here, and the nervous system turns on the sympathetic that's your fight or flight. And so and there's, that's the thing of a lot of people pair, like in one time incident that may have only happened once in life, but you said every time after that I step on a stick, I'm outside. You know, this is way back in the day. That's the response that triggers our brain to then think oh, no right, because this one time that bobcat. So our brain doesn't know the difference.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
It re-experiences that.
Speaker 1:
Just reacting.
Speaker 2:
Reacting, even though you turn around, there's nothing there. Heart's racing. You're ready to run? Some people just run, yeah, and that's the flight. So, individuals, when we're feeling threatened, you know, a lot of people say, oh boy, I just started yelling or I just start punching, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Okay.
Speaker 2:
That's the fight, that's the fight. And so, bobcat, you either have to fight that off or you have to run away.
Speaker 1:
Freeze isn't an option here. I don't think.
Speaker 2:
Freeze is an option.
Speaker 1:
Oh, it is Many people are frozen. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
They're standing and they're frozen frozen. So those are the situations that can come up where you're scared and your body is putting you in that safety mode of just freeze. And that's the piece of understanding when a lot of people are re-traumatized. You know, when I said some people can go through multiple traumas and not even realize they're kind of in these. It's like how come I'm not learning from some of these things that are happening? Why am I kind of in the same situation and I'm traumatized again? Some of these individuals, they're in a freeze mode.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, Some of these individuals. They're in a freeze mode.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so they're experiencing the trauma and they're in a situation and they could be re-traumatized because they just stop freeze and they're unable to react, they're unable to fight something off, they're unable to run, their system is freezing. Now that's a whole nother. So I'm just going to give us to start to think about that a bit.
Speaker 2:
Yep, Okay, Wow, Really good. I mean, this is really. I know you have a lot of questions that are really good and I think that for now we can at least just say we started to talk about what PTSD is and that's called post-traumatic stress disorder. I don't even know if I said that in the beginning.
Speaker 1:
I don't remember.
Speaker 2:
And so I apologize to our listeners, but what that is is the experience of something that is traumatic, and we've went through that. Some people just find them as little T's or big T's, where it's like a big T could be a major, significant trauma. Little T's could be something that was traumatic, scary, yet maybe not as intense, definitely not as intense or life altering, and so that one I do struggle with that when I it's the way that they talk about it in you know psychology and it's a way to try to help people understand. Yet that's where I said it's individual. So what could be? I may consider a little T for my life.
Speaker 2:
My client may be looking at that as a big T because, based off of their level, of how they interpret it, or not a T at all, or it could you know, yes, it could be well, was that more of a psychological injury? Was that more of a really scary thing that happened versus. You know that's part of when you're with the therapist, being able to have those discussions and identify what all the different criteria. You know what's happening here. What all the different criteria. You know what's happening here. How much has this impacted your life? What part of your safety was threatened. How much control did you feel like you had or lacked?
Speaker 2:
Oh, control, yeah that probably plays a big part in all this too. Avoidance, you know, it's something like I remember I said it's something that just scares the shit out of you, it shocks your system and it can really take apart and disable all of your coping. That's another thing where some people are like. This has shaken me so much the stuff that used to work for me to feel better isn't working. My body is, you know, experiencing this, and those are some of the symptoms.
Speaker 2:
Avoidance is a big one, avoidance of anything that makes you remember, and it could be one event, it could be multiple events, it could be some people could have a combination of a lot of little T's and then a couple big T's. Some people can have a massive T with a therapist who knows a lot about trauma. I think is really important because we're trained in so many different areas and I think that trauma really becomes almost an area of specialty where you really want somebody at least who is very aware of the different levels and how complex it could become, right, so, right now. That was a really good conversation. Thank you for listening. I do. There is a national support for PTSD. Definitely go online and do some more reading on this. Talk to professionals, you know to understand this more. Ptsd is definitely something you don't want to tackle alone. This is something that support and guidance and working with somebody who knows is a big part of understanding it and how to even treat it.
Speaker 1:
Very treatable. Very treatable.
Speaker 2:
Very treatable.
Speaker 1:
Oh, I just kind of figured it'd be complex. Well, or it's complex but treatable. Maybe is that the. There you go.
Speaker 2:
Oh, okay. And when I say treatable, there are treatments out there for PTSD. Yeah, there are treatments out there for acute stress. There are treatments out there for those people who are having stress reaction and they're not fully meeting criteria for PTSD. They're not fully meeting criteria for PTSD, but they're having a lot of stressful reaction related to something that went on in life.
Speaker 1:
So there's a path to some kind of relief. Yes, always and at every level, I think.
Speaker 2:
But there's a massive T, little t, not a T at all tea, little tea, not a tea at all and not a tea at all. There's still those hurts and injuries that are psychologically impacting us. So those could be things like applying for that job you really wanted and not getting, and feeling that devastation, fear, anxiety, changes in income. You know all those kinds of stress. Those are all things that can cause a lot, of, a lot of these fear and anxious symptoms. And then so that's how they start to see well, what's what's a life stressor, what's something that's happening around me. Life stressor, what's something that's happening around me and what is something that is actually something that is traumatic and has caused me to either witness or experience something life-threatening, and process that at such a higher level of what's going on. Very good, okay. So thank you for listening.
Speaker 2:
I know there's a lot of questions, but we will definitely be, um, uh, having a lot more conversations on this. I we won't do them all in a row. I mean these are psychologists say. We like to change it up every episode, but we will definitely be revisiting this. Some topics of historical trauma, generational trauma, all of the great stuff for Indian country that we need to be talking about with historical trauma. So today we were keeping it very clinical, on what I would do as a psychologist and how I would explain it in terms of looking at what could be PTSD versus like a stress reaction. Great questions, harold, thank you. So PS, trauma and life hurts can be very challenging for us. Yet it's definitely something that there's treatment, there are things to do to help us cope and get through these traumas in life. Miigwech you.
