The Impact of Ageism on Older Adults and the Importance of Home Modifications for Aging In Place.

Summary

In this conversation, Janet Engel interviews Eve Hill, an aging in place specialist realtor, and founder of Customized Aging about the impact of ageism on older adults and the importance of home modifications for aging in place.

Eve shares her personal journey that led her to focus on ageism awareness and discusses the four types of ageism: internalized, interpersonal, institutional, and ideological.

They explore how media representation affects perceptions of aging and highlight the importance of technology in supporting older adults.

Eve also introduces innovative age-tech products that can enhance the quality of life for seniors.

The conversation explores innovative technologies and solutions for aging in place, particularly for individuals with dementia. It discusses the role of ambient AI, remote monitoring, and home technologies that enhance personal hygiene and safety.

The importance of universal design in home modifications is emphasized, along with financial resources available for aging in place.

The discussion also addresses the cost-effectiveness of home modifications compared to assisted living and the need to combat ageism to improve outcomes for older adults.

Takeaways

Ageism is prevalent and often unconscious.

Home environments often do not support aging in place.

Universal design can benefit everyone, not just the elderly.

Internalized ageism affects decision-making about home modifications.

Interpersonal ageism can undermine older adults' confidence.

Institutional ageism impacts healthcare policies and practices.

Media representation of older adults is often negative or absent.

Older adults are increasingly tech-savvy and adaptable.

Positive views on aging can lead to longer, healthier lives.

Innovative age-tech products can significantly improve quality of life.

Innovative technologies can significantly improve dementia care.

Ambient AI offers privacy-friendly monitoring solutions.

AI companions can assist with medication and appointments.

Home technologies like induction stoves enhance safety.

Personal hygiene technologies can reduce health risks.

Universal design benefits all age groups.

Financial resources exist for home modifications.

Proactive home modifications can delay assisted living.

Reverse mortgages are underutilized for aging in place.

Combating ageism can lead to better health outcomes.

Sound Bites

"I want to bust the ageism that's in ourselves."

"Most homes in the U.S. were not built with the longevity revolution in mind."

"Internalized ageism really can have a big impact."

"Less agitation for caregivers and families."

"Remote monitoring without cameras is possible."

"AI companions can help with medication reminders."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Aging in Place and Ageism

04:14 Understanding Ageism: The Four I's

12:46 Ideological Ageism: Media's Role in Aging Perception

20:06 Technology and Aging: Debunking Myths

25:02 Innovative Age-Tech Products for Better Living

27:31 The Role of Ambient AI in Healthcare

29:41 Home Technologies for Aging in Place

32:09 The Importance of Universal Design

37:24 Cost-Effectiveness of Home Modificati

Transcript

Janet Engel (00:01.626)
Hello everyone and thank you for being with me today. My guest is Eve Hill. She is the owner of Customize Aging. She is also a real estate professional and she also talks about ageism. Eve, thank you for being with us today.

Eve Hill (00:20.94)
Hi, thank you so much, Janet, for having me on your podcast. I really appreciate it. Yes, I'm Eve Hill and my business is customized aging. I'm an aging in place specialist and a realtor and I help older adults and their families project manage the aging in place process. I make home modification recommendations. I connect them with community supports and I'm also involved in educating.

older adults, their families and businesses about non-ages content and communications. So personally, I'm really excited about all the resources and the innovations that are there to help us prolong our independence in our homes. And what I want to do is I want to bust the ageism that's in ourselves and in our environments that prevents us from embracing all these amazing products, services and devices that are going to help us future proof ourselves and have a fantastic better aging future than we might even have thought ourselves.

Janet Engel (01:11.376)
Well, I'm very excited to hear your insights because ageism is prevalent and I think that all of us have biases that we ourselves aren't aware of. And so I am interested in learning from you how we can become more enlightened and not let ageism guide our thinking.

Eve Hill (01:28.812)
Yes.

Eve Hill (01:40.566)
Right, right, and to be aware of it.

Janet Engel (01:41.018)
First, I want to ask you, tell me about your personal experience with your father and what led you to focus on aging in place and ageism awareness.

Eve Hill (01:54.711)
Sure. Well, I became an aging in place specialist toward the end of my father's life. He had a progressive condition and his mobility was pretty limited and it was getting worse. And I realized that his home environment was working against him. He couldn't use his primary bathroom that was attached to his bedroom anymore because the doorway was too narrow for his walker.

Janet Engel (02:09.542)
Thank

Eve Hill (02:16.354)
So here's an 85 year old man who has to go down the hall to go to the bathroom and down the stairs to take a shower. So to me, that was an example of ageist home design. And as I came to realize, most homes in the U.S. were not built with the longevity revolution in mind, right? They have the narrow doorways, they have the staircases, they have the inadequate lighting. They're outdated and manufactured barriers.

that are getting in the way of our independence and are influencing even how we see ourselves and our possibilities. So the stigma that our society attaches to aging makes us put off these changes and deny that we have we're going to have these future needs. And so when it came to my father and I would say, look, we can widen the doorway. He brushed me off. He's like, I'm not ready. I'm fine. I don't need it.

But like I said, his condition was progressive. So he was going to need it. And his resistance to these home modifications is very common, but it's very scary. And he was putting himself at risk for a fall. So it really kind of inspires me to normalize universal design. Because if we break that ageist mindset about home modifications, we're going to make life better for everybody. We're going to save money. We're going to save lives. And we're to have more comfort in our old age.

So that was what kind of.

Janet Engel (03:39.046)
And I love that you mentioned universal design because that really is the gateway to.

enlightening people and showing them that there's a different path. And it doesn't matter if you're working with someone who has a progressive disease like your father did, or if you're working with someone who is a healthy 60 year old and they simply want to make this home friendlier for aging in place or perhaps make it more visitable for their parents to come visit.

Eve Hill (04:02.638)
Right.

Eve Hill (04:11.619)
Peace.

Bye.

Janet Engel (04:14.534)
And so universal design really is for everyone and can really go very far in making a home safer and more comfortable. Now you mentioned four different types of ageism. Internalized, interpersonal, institutional, and ideological. Can you briefly explain each of these and how they relate to home modifications?

Eve Hill (04:35.128)
Yes.

Eve Hill (04:40.982)
Yeah, I would love to and I try to do it as succinctly as possible. They're the four eyes of ageism and I got this from Janine Vandenberg who works with Changing the Narrative which is an amazing anti-ageism initiative. So she identified these four eyes of ageism. The internalized ageism is the ageism that we take in ourselves that we don't even realize it's there. We might not even realize it's there.

and you might catch yourself if you say you're having, I'm having a senior moment. Well, that's internalized ageism. We don't even realize it. So try to catch yourself. Maybe say, you know, I've forgotten things my whole life. When I was younger and I forgot my keys or an appointment, I didn't call it a junior moment.

And that's something that Ashton Applewhite, I got from Ashton Applewhite, who was an amazing advocate for anti-ageism. So that's a really good thing. And when it comes to home modifications, the internalized ageism really can have a big impact because we might say, you know, I don't want grand bars or I don't want to stair lift because I don't want my home to look like an old person lives there, which is in itself internalized ageism. What's wrong with looking like an old person lives there? You're old. So anyway, so instead of saying to yourself, grand bars make me look old, try

Janet Engel (05:27.139)
Thank

Eve Hill (05:56.378)
saying, grab bars don't make me look old. Falls do.

And that I'll give credit to the esteemed CAPS professor Fritzi Grodeon of Household Guardians who told me about that one. So that's where that internalized ageism might impact your decision making about home modifications. There's a lot of other consequences that come with internalized ageism like increased depression, more reluctant to see the doctor. But the good news is what we're doing now, talking about it, becoming aware of it can actually help reduce it. So let's continue.

So we have the internalized ageism, then we have the interpersonal ageism, which is between people. So let's say when it comes to home modifications, let's say you're a senior sector service provider and you're talking to your client, your older adult client in the same song voice and you say, check out this, and you say, hey sweetie, check this out. Or you talk to them, you know, in exaggerated tones. That's going to have a negative impact.

on you and on the person you're talking to. Studies have shown that the person using elder speak is seen as more patronizing, is seen as less respectful. And the person receiving the elder speak, when an adult is spoken to like a child, it's shown that they get withdrawn, they may get depressed, and they get less confident in making their own decisions.

So as a professional trying to sell a product or service to a client, you want that client to have agency. You want that client to be able to make their own decisions. So that's something that we can do as professionals and just as people to have better communication with everybody, older adults and better trust and better effective communication. So that's the interpersonal. And okay.

Janet Engel (07:41.719)
That's interesting. wanted to just say because that is and we may not be aware that we're doing this but that's similar to people treating someone that is in a wheelchair as if they have cognitive impairment where they probably don't but then we assume because we see them as a disabled person that they must have some cognitive problem.

Eve Hill (07:57.58)
Right, right, right.

Janet Engel (08:07.926)
and it's terrible assumption.

Eve Hill (08:08.406)
And our intentions are good. Yeah, our intentions are good, would you say? I mean, we want to engage with them, we want to be kind, but our internalized ageism is coming out in being different with them. And sometimes we have to make an extra effort. Yeah, or talking to the person.

Janet Engel (08:24.164)
Yeah, or ignoring someone. Talking to the caregiver or the adult child and then not talking to the older person.

Eve Hill (08:34.2)
Well, that interpersonalized ageism actually can transfer into institutional ageism because institutional ageism has to do with the policies and the laws and the practices. Like in healthcare, if you're not really addressing the older adult, you're not addressing their needs and letting them be involved in the process, you might not be creating the policies that are going to help them because you haven't involved them in the process.

because you're just looking, there have been studies that have shown that in a Parkinson's study, for example, on Parkinson's medication, 49 % of Parkinson's clinical trials don't involve older adults, when older adults are more likely to experience this disease.

So institutionalized ageism can have an effect on health care. Institutionalized ageism can have an effect on the economy when we have mandatory retirement ages. We're locking people out of the workforce that might be able to contribute. So let's see how institutionalized ageism might, did I talk about how institutionalized ageism impacts?

Janet Engel (09:43.666)
Well, you talked briefly about how it can translate into how interpersonal ageism can translate into institutional ageism.

Eve Hill (09:48.855)
Yeah.

Eve Hill (09:52.748)
Yeah, because how you talk to people, then how you enact the policies. And then I wanted to bring it back to the home modification issue, how institutionalized ageism impacts those kinds of policies. So right now, we don't even have a national accessibility standard for residential homes.

So the government may talk a lot about affordable housing, accessible housing, but it doesn't seem like it's prioritizing this national standard. And that kind of lack of prioritizing, lack of prioritizing the needs of older adults is widening the gap between the age-ready homes that are available. Because if you don't have a national standard, then it makes it harder to find the homes that will meet the needs of older adults. And so more people are left without proper housing.

Does that make sense?

Janet Engel (10:40.742)
Yes, and then state and local code doesn't really enforce any accessibility issues like let's say a 30, 32 inch doorway, 36 inch hallways, a half an inch threshold. So builders have no incentive to incorporate these criteria in their designs. That's why whether you buy a new house or an old house, you're probably going to end up with a 24 inch doorway.

Eve Hill (10:52.621)
Right.

Eve Hill (10:58.04)
Bye.

Eve Hill (11:03.714)
Right, and we don't.

Eve Hill (11:10.828)
Right, right. mean, there is the Fair Housing Act, but that doesn't apply. It only applies to the multi, like four unit buildings. And then you have the ADA.

Janet Engel (11:22.144)
Yes, the multi-home.

Eve Hill (11:25.356)
Right, but the ADA is only for commercial and so it kind of has to be maneuvered around by the contractor and they, yeah. And there is a push to get a national accessibility standard for it and people are approaching the National Association of Realtors and there's been a lot of work done in Rogue Valley, Oregon with the lifelong housing.

initiative where they do have an accessibility checklist and they do have accessibility certification. So I think the progress is going to be made if we keep putting attention and we keep supporting these kinds of things and try to replicate them in different states. when people see what kind of a value that brings and how many people are looking for accessible homes and what they're willing to pay for an accessible home, then it will get more popular and more supported.

Janet Engel (12:14.094)
And this criteria that you mentioned in Oregon, is that statewide?

Eve Hill (12:18.86)
That is no, it's Rogue Valley, it's an area. And now it's expanding. There's another organization that's branched off from there and taking it to a different place in Oregon. But it hasn't gotten around further than that. okay, so I think we've covered three of the four I's. So now we're on to ideological ageism, which is kind of the umbrella. It is society's underlying beliefs about what it means to grow older.

Janet Engel (12:22.298)
Okay.

Janet Engel (12:32.772)
Okay.

Eve Hill (12:46.382)
We see this in the general assumption that aging equals decline and lack of relevance and frailty. And I would say that the media plays a huge role in reinforcing these ideas, unfortunately. They're getting better. But as recently as 2019, there was a study done that showed people over 50 are seven times more likely to appear negatively, to be shown negatively than younger people.

So I think this kind of representation really matters because how we see ourselves, how we see the images of ourselves, they shape our beliefs about who we are and our possibilities. So the reality check is that older adults are more likely to pay attention and remember positive information than negative information.

So these kind of fear-based, frailty-based ads that show adults in decline are actually repelling the audience they're trying to reach because older adults are more likely to respond to positive things. Not exaggerated things, not people skydiving, but real, authentic people doing non-age-related activities that older adults still do. So...

By framing the necessary changes that people need as weakness, rather than extending our independence, this is where media is failing us. They're getting better. And there's a big push by the organizations that I've mentioned, like changing the narrative and Ashton Applewhite's old school info website and reframing aging. There's a lot of people that are pushing against this and making things better. And I would say when we talk about

how to counter ideological ages and when it comes to home modifications. So instead of focusing on the limitations, we talk about the creature comforts of universal design home modifications and how they can adapt and how they give you emotional supports and more time with family. So a curbless shower, right, isn't just about safety. It's beautiful. It's convenient. And you can enjoy your bathing experience without any hassle.

Eve Hill (14:54.964)
So non-age specific. So we can help ourselves and older adults see home modifications as an investment in a better quality of life rather than admitting that they're in decline and we'll shift the narrative. We'll make it about growth. We'll make it about adaptation. We'll make it about family. And so I think it can help us really change. I would like to say like a new age of self-awareness and possibilities is what I think. So yeah.

Janet Engel (15:21.03)
you

Janet Engel (15:24.734)
Yeah, and I wanted to add with what you had said earlier, Eve, that media portrays the older adult in a negative way. Most of the time, they don't even represent them at all. That's another problem. Is that older adults are nowhere to be found on commercials or print.

Eve Hill (15:40.022)
Yes, yes, yes, I don't have the exact number.

Right, right. They're on a scheme. Yeah. No, they're getting better. They're improved. yeah.

Janet Engel (15:50.4)
And so they're not even speaking to that demographic. How do they expect to gain their business when they're not represented? And I can tell you as I'm Hispanic and I have olive skin and I remember being a young child and my mom taking me to Walgreens and I wanted to buy lipstick and the only lipstick that was available was a shade of pink.

And it looked terrible on me because I was too dark to wear that shade of pink. And it wasn't until I became an adult where they started making colors that were suitable for people with darker skin, that you didn't look like a clown wearing it. And so I'm very sensitive to not being represented in marketing.

Eve Hill (16:39.096)
Yeah, it's amazing.

Janet Engel (16:47.307)
and in the design of products because we want to buy them too.

Eve Hill (16:51.936)
Yes, definitely want to buy them. It's interesting. It's an interesting balance because Joseph Coughlin, who's an authority from the MIT age lab about aging and longevity, he says that, you know, it's difficult because you do want to see yourself, but it

An old man he says an old man won't buy an old man's car, but an old man will buy a young man's car So if we don't see the older adults with those products the theory is they'll buy them anyway I guess because the younger people are and then we're putting the younger people our market of the younger people at risk if we put the older adults in there because then the younger people won't buy it, but really Probably not true

Janet Engel (17:33.56)
And the issue is that if you make your products, assuming you only have younger users, then older people will not be able to use them. So they're not going to buy your product. So what you have to do is create an age agnostic product so that you don't turn the customer off, but then also make that product usable for everyone. And the fact is...

Eve Hill (17:45.078)
Right. And welcome to the...

Eve Hill (17:56.067)
Mm-hmm.

Eve Hill (18:01.368)
Right.

Janet Engel (18:02.884)
This is the one that I love to tell people because most people don't realize that age is the first system that deteriorates with age. And you don't have to be very old. It starts between the ages of 40 and 45. So if you make a product, for example, a phone, I can tell you the reason why I bought the iPhone Pro was because it was larger.

Eve Hill (18:13.068)
What?

Janet Engel (18:32.518)
and because I have presbyopia and it's very hard for me to focus. So I purposely bought a larger phone so that I didn't have to try so hard to see the small print. I'm 46 years old. I'm not 85.

Eve Hill (18:37.271)
Mm-hmm.

Eve Hill (18:48.847)
and that that's available for you. Well, yeah, have... Now, the other thing about these devices, which are so fantastic, is that they don't come with the user manual. They don't come with a user-friendly user manual at all. So I didn't even know that you can enlarge the type on your iPhone.

You know, mean, we stumble upon these things or we stumble upon things that screw up what we're using. And so it gets very frustrating. But yeah, these things are definitely out there and it's making older adults aware and connecting them with the supports that will help them maintain these products and not get overwhelmed and throw them to the side if they don't have that human support that's going to help them. So I think that, yeah.

Janet Engel (19:39.034)
And that's a perfect lead into my next question because this is another misconception about older adults, especially baby boomers, that they're not tech savvy. And that's completely untrue because most baby boomers had already been introduced to the computer before they ever retired. So it's very few boomers who do not have training with technology. So what are some...

Eve Hill (19:50.018)
Yeah. Yes.

Eve Hill (20:00.408)
you

Eve Hill (20:05.102)
Bye.

Janet Engel (20:06.916)
common misconceptions related to technology in the home for older adults that you find.

Eve Hill (20:13.966)
Well, that's exactly true what you say that the ageism in our society says that older adults aren't tech savvy. But in reality, I mean, the numbers are showing us AARP this year as a study that says older adults are on par with younger adults when it comes to the use of the internet and when it comes to use of devices. They're all at about 50 to 64 is at 96 % and even 75 and over.

65 and over is at 75 percent. So it's not just the baby boomers. It's also the older older adults like my mother who is she's now 88. So she remembers FDR. She remembers the milkman. She remembers the iceman. But now she's using Instacart. She does all her banking online. She has a Nest thermostat. She has a Ring doorbell. So this proven adaptability that older adults have we should we can't

just say, you're old, so you don't know it because you weren't born with it or you learned it too late. We just have to have to give them the tools in a way that they can understand them. Yeah, OK, so if you're not a digital native, maybe you don't understand what a swipe right means, but you can learn it if someone says, here's how you do it. Anyway, so another misconception that I would say is that whole diversity thing. Older adults are not like a monolithic block.

So some people may have different abilities with technology than others, but we shouldn't assume anything based on age. The 65 plus group is the most diverse age group that we have in this country in terms of interests and in terms of health, in terms of economy. So I would argue that we need to change the thinking that something is what it is just because I'm old. Like you said, we do have age related things that happen to our bodies, but sometimes

they improve. Sometimes our cognition improves as we age. There's something called by hemispheric processing that gets to its peak at age 50. We get this bridge of nerve fibers in our right and left hemispheres that merge finally. And we get this better perspective, better problem solving skills.

Eve Hill (22:32.514)
So there are so many benefits of aging that we need to recognize and if you believe in age-related Stereotypes, that's the self-fulfilling prophecy. So if you can fill your head with the assets of maturity and Break through these misconceptions then you're gonna Have a better life live longer if you believe it's gonna happen. You're gonna live longer

Dr. Rebecca Levy of Yale did studies that have been replicated in 10 countries that say that if we have a consistent positive view about aging, we stand to live seven and a half years longer. So that's not bad for changing our mindset and accepting these devices and embracing these developments and innovations that are gonna help us.

Janet Engel (23:19.386)
That was very well said. And I've also read that people are happier as they age. Yeah, and they're more positive. no, go ahead.

Eve Hill (23:27.638)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're in.

Well, this, I do like talking about the U curve of happiness. Is that what you're referring to? Yeah, yeah. So the U curve of happiness, which is like our life is in the U shape. We're born super happy as babies and giggling and ready for anything. And then we get to the bottom of the U curve around midlife crisis time when we've got all our responsibilities and our burdens.

Janet Engel (23:38.774)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Janet Engel (23:53.488)
when you have kids, when you have young kids.

Eve Hill (23:55.916)
young kids, aging parents, sandwich generation time, right? 40, 50. And then as we get closer to the end of our lives, strangely enough, we get more positive. You know, it's not about the quantity, it's about the quality. And we get perspective and we appreciate, we get more generous. We start thinking about leaving the world a better place. So we get to be better citizens and we look forward to life, to every day. We have more gratitude, more patience. So.

Yes, I would say there's a lot to look forward to even though we can't ignore reality of age. Aging happens, right? We're all aging and we're not going to deny that it happens. But if we have this positive attitude and we accept that we can have this positive attitude, then that's going to make everything better and comfortable.

Janet Engel (24:48.364)
Eve, what are some exciting examples of age-checked products that you've come across that you think can help change perceptions about home modifications for aging in place?

Eve Hill (25:02.594)
Yeah, I think there's so many fantastic age tech innovations. I'm going to rattle through some. The first one that I'd like to talk about is the Ohm Stove Kitchen Knob. It's this standalone device, pretty affordable, that goes on top of your existing stove knob. And you can shut off the stove via an app if you forget. If your aging parent forgets or you as whoever you are, gosh, I forgot, on your app you can turn it off.

Janet Engel (25:08.624)
Mm-hmm.

Eve Hill (25:31.454)
So that really gives a lot of peace of mind to adult children who might not live close by. And they just came out with a 2.0 version, which I'm sure is even better than the first one. And then the other one that I just found out about, I really like is called OnScreen, which is a Roku-like device that hooks up to your existing television and your TV, which is what most older adults are really super comfortable using. Your TV turns into your hub for communication, for telehealth.

For FaceTime with your families, they've also partnered with something called the Loop Village, which has classes and programs virtually. It also has these things where you can share meal times with other older adults virtually, so you're not eating alone. You're on screen with other people, and that actually, eating with other people has proven to increase your intake of the right foods.

So that's great. And I just found out about something called Zinnia TV, which is also on your TV, which is for caregivers and people with dementia. And what Zinnia TV does is it plays peaceful, repetitive recommendations for routines, like drinking water. It shows people drinking water.

Shows dogs drinking water, shows people enjoying water. So, you know, it's, and so for someone with dementia, that's a helpful reminder. And it shows bathing in a positive light. And there's a lot of resistance to bathing for people with dementia at certain stages. And so this makes it a lot easier for the caregivers and for the family and for the person. Less agitation. So I think those kinds of things.

Pretty exciting. If you understand the diseases, I don't quite understand all the ramifications of what was on inside a person's head with dementia, but my father did have dementia and there was a lot of resistance sometimes with these things. So if that helps, I think that's fantastic. There's a ton of remote monitoring. So let's talk about AI, right? So remote monitoring, ambient AI.

Eve Hill (27:31.442)
And when the first question a lot of people say is I don't want a camera. I don't want someone seeing what I'm doing in my house, even if it prevents falls, even if it helps contact my family members.

So what they have now instead of cameras is they have radio waves and they have even devices, I don't know how they do it, where they can pick up on your vibrations and your touch and they can tell, they can map your routines based on those kinds of things. And then if something is an aberration in your routine, then it can notify the caregiver or the doctor or the healthcare professional or whoever you want. these, this ambient AI is maybe seeing a stick figure, not a person.

Janet Engel (28:01.06)
Mm.

Eve Hill (28:11.598)
So that might help with people who are worried about the privacy. there's a ton of that kind of remote fall prevention and care support where they have something called Care Sherpa, which helps you through all the stages of healthcare. Like a lot of people, a lot of people don't get the healthcare they need, not because they don't have a doctor, but because they can't get to the doctor or they forget when the appointment is. So you have this AI companion on your TV or on your phone.

That will remind you of your medication, remind you of your appointments, arrange transportation, partners with GoGo Grandparent, a transportation app, connects all that stuff up. So that kind of stuff you can take care of yourself. Your adult children can kind of monitor from far away. There's even something called Total Life, which offers online therapy, talk therapy that's covered by Medicare. So that's fantastic. So these things can help with communication, health, social isolation.

Janet Engel (29:02.694)
Mmm.

Eve Hill (29:07.886)
I mean, I could go on and on. Can I go on and on?

Janet Engel (29:12.422)
Well, I'll mention some of my favorite in the home is the induction stove. I think is just brilliant. Not just because it dramatically reduces or eliminates a risk for fire, but it's also easier to clean. So you know how with an electric stove, once food gets on it, it the food gets cooked. Well, that doesn't happen with an induction stove.

Eve Hill (29:31.501)
Yes.

Janet Engel (29:41.348)
because it only cooks when it's touching magnet. So let's say you drop some tomato sauce on your stove top. It just cleans right up. I would love to have that. You know how much time I spend cleaning my gas stove? Another one I love is the bidet, which people would not think of that as a

Eve Hill (29:51.661)
your phone.

Eve Hill (29:55.328)
My brother just found one, he loves it.

Eve Hill (30:00.793)
we've got these things sit here. Go ahead.

Eve Hill (30:06.893)
Yeah.

Janet Engel (30:11.142)
home AI tool or a technology to help people age in place, but it totally does because it helps with personal hygiene. And if personal hygiene is improved, then that person is less likely to have a urinary tract infection, less likely to have skin breakdown.

Eve Hill (30:25.998)
Yeah.

Janet Engel (30:39.426)
Also, they're going to smell better, so they're not going to be socially isolated because they won't be separating themselves from other people, which is a reality of why older people that are not able to maintain a good level of hygiene stop interacting with other people.

Eve Hill (30:47.576)
Wow.

Eve Hill (31:01.614)
Wow, yeah, that's true. That's very true. There's a lot of there are other things like that. The bidet, you know, sometimes might be overwhelming for people because they think they need some special hookup or something. But some of the bidets now you don't. there's even things that are pretty freaking inexpensive that just sort of manual that you can buy and they're not a big thing. And then once you start that, there's other things that can monitor your health, right? Those toilets that can analyze your waste, right?

Janet Engel (31:17.702)
Mm-hmm.

Eve Hill (31:31.432)
and mirrors that can take your temperature and screen you for jaundice or anemia, things like that. So those are fantastic age tech.

Janet Engel (31:40.438)
Yeah, and but there are just so many products out there that can help people age in place that are not at all related to health or bodily functions. And I think that that's what we all have to be aware of. It's that's a bias that we think as a whole that older people are only interested in products that are related to medical needs or bodily functions. And that's not true.

Eve Hill (31:51.841)
I see.

Janet Engel (32:09.318)
It's like I was thinking, you know, when you have a woman that's pregnant, you know, if all you sell to her are stretch mark creams and nursing supplies, you know that.

Eve Hill (32:10.211)
Yeah.

Eve Hill (32:25.548)
Right, that's not about the joy of having a baby. And that actually, that's about the communication part of, that you're talking about something that's not just about health. And so let's talk about how you present.

task lighting or how you present lowered countertops. You don't present it as you you're going blind or you can't stand up. You present it as this is going to help you continue to make that sourdough pizza that you make for the family and when your grandkid comes over he's going be able to sit at that countertop and he's going able to roll out the dough.

Or it's like, you you want to integrate smart technology in your home, not because we don't trust you, but because you're to be able to make sure your front door is locked when you're in your bedroom, which is up the stairs and down the hall. You're not going to have to, and your adult kids, you know, they're going to not going to bug you anymore and worry about you. So those kinds of things help it become beyond age, you know.

Janet Engel (33:27.044)
Right, it's just gonna help you live more comfortably in your home and be able to use your home better. So tell me, could you discuss some of the resources and financial tools available to people for aging in place modifications?

Eve Hill (33:42.968)
Yeah.

Eve Hill (33:46.932)
Sure, sure, I would love to. And as we both would agree, and I'm sure most people would agree that planning ahead is the key to all of it. If you do it before you need it, you have more options in terms of what you get, how much you pay for it, and things like that. So that's the main thing. But when you look at the federal programs that are out there to help with home modifications, it's kind of a lot. There are actually 15 different federal, separate federal programs for the

fund home repairs. So that's kind of confusing. 15 rivulets of federal funding coming down and it makes it hard to have a cohesive approach because of the data sharing protections that one organization, one program doesn't necessarily, aren't necessarily able to talk to the other. So that can make it pretty fragmented and difficult. So what I would say is a starting point for home modification resources would be your local area agency on aging.

As we know, they're all over the country. So if you go to eldercare.acl.gov, type in your zip code, you'll find an organization that will be your senior hub, and they will have all this information and a directory and access to fall prevention programs, professionals, and home modification funding resources that you may or may not qualify for, but you could look into.

So there's things like the Area Agency on Aging. There are centers for independent living that are nonprofits that can offer home modification funding. There's Rebuilding Together, which is a national network for home modification funding resources. However, it's income-based, for middle income and above, probably wouldn't apply, but for low income, it would. All these other tools, some tools you could get through the USC Leonard Davis School of Gerontology.

homemods.org, which is a national directory of home modification resources, right?

Eve Hill (35:42.764)
You have your Aging in Place directory where you can talk to professionals who may have some expertise on funding resources. And the National Aging in Place Council also has vetted professionals that may have information about funding resources. They may not. A lot of professionals don't have this information about funding resources. And I think that we need to make sure that they know more about it. So for now, you could also look into age-friendly

policies in home modifications in your area. Unfortunately, there's not a national incentive or tax credit for home modifications, which there should be, but there are some regional places. There is Rhode Island, which has a livable home modification grant, and there's Massachusetts, which has a home modification loan program. So you can look in your area, start with the Area Agency on Aging, they can probably direct you to those kinds of resources if they are available.

I've got a couple more.

Janet Engel (36:41.508)
Now, other programs that I think people, well, I know for sure that older adults aren't taking advantage of enough are reverse mortgages. There's only a 2 % penetration of older adults using reverse mortgages to age in place. And it is a fantastic resource for people to...

Eve Hill (37:05.451)
It is. Yeah.

Janet Engel (37:07.206)
make modifications in their home. They can buy furniture. They can use it to travel. They can use it to pay a caregiver so that they can remain in their home instead of moving to a formal setting. So many options.

Eve Hill (37:16.098)
Yes.

Eve Hill (37:22.188)
Yes, yes, that's.

So that's where the education comes in, right? And we can do so much, myself as a realtor and a CAHPS professional, I can recommend someone go see a mortgage specialist because the modern reverse mortgage is backed by the federal government. And so to learn about the new and educating you about the reverse mortgage is part of the process. You're not gonna be put into something unless you're totally completely educated on what it means. And yes, for some people, that's fantastic. things, life insurance policies.

can be tapped to make home modifications and long-term care policies sometimes can be tapped to make home modifications.

Janet Engel (38:02.726)
Yeah, so I just wanted to make a quick plug for people who are listening and thinking, maybe I qualify for a reverse mortgage. If you want to talk to a professional, there is a professional, Michael Panko, that I had on my show just a few episodes ago. He's a wonderful man. He's trustworthy, and he really knows his stuff.

He's in California. His company is Veterans Mortgages of America, and he will help you if you want to call him Michael Panko. Last name is spelled P-A-N-K-O-W.

Eve Hill (38:38.94)
I'll let you do your plug-in.

Eve Hill (38:43.98)
Now I got to check him out. know people too, but now I've got to check him out since you complimented him so well. Yeah. No, there's a lot of good people out there that aren't specialists in health and procedures. Yeah.

Janet Engel (38:51.468)
E? There are, yes!

And tell me Eve, since we're talking about money, how does, tell me about the costs of spending or investing money in your home to prepare it for aging in place with things like what we just mentioned, an induction stove, better lighting, having motion sensor lighting, having a bidet, things like that versus.

moving into a formal setting like an assisted living facility.

Eve Hill (39:28.172)
Right. Well, definitely it could be very cost effective over time, even though there's a lot of expense in what you just rattled off. And that's a lot. That's what we talked about doing in stages, making it more affordable in pieces. But even if you look at it in a lump. So I was looking into this according to AARP, National Institute of Health, Centers for Disease Control.

They say that proactively addressing key modifications in the home can delay your transition to assisted living by two to seven years. So that's pretty significant, two to seven years. And when you're talking just about the simple stuff to get started, DIY or the handyman stuff like removing throw rugs or adding motion sensor lights or grab bars, that's really affordable. But let's say you need a full kitchen remodel or bathroom remodel.

Let's say that costs tens of thousands of dollars, 25, $30,000. Well, according to Genworth cost of care study survey, they say that the average cost of assisted living over two years would be over $128,000. So if you remodel your kitchen for 30 grand, that's gonna make itself up pretty quickly, because paying for assisted living could be five, $6,000 a month.

paying for a skilled nursing facility in a semi-private room is almost $9,000 a month. So, yes, I would say that it's...

Janet Engel (40:52.364)
and you're not even investing in your home. That's money that just goes away. It's not building any equity.

Eve Hill (40:57.546)
Right. And that's money that's going to keep increasing the, you know, two to three to how many percent every year. You don't have control over that. I mean, of course there's other costs in aging your place. You can't ignore you have your home maintenance and insurance and other property necessities that you have to consider. so it's not like, you have, this is better in every case, but in general, if you want to stay in your home and you have the supports, you're going to save a lot of money.

if you make those home modification changes.

Janet Engel (41:30.148)
And I think another way people can look at it is maybe you don't stay in the home that you currently live in. For example, the home I live in, has three, it has two stories and a basement. I would not age in place in this home. So perhaps you can, you choose another home that is going to be easier and less costly to modify.

Eve Hill (41:36.642)
Bye.

Eve Hill (41:47.278)
Hmm.

Janet Engel (41:58.478)
And that's what aging in place is, is being able to stay in the home of your choice and not moving into a formal setting. And at some point, the person may have to live in a formal setting, but we want to delay that as much as possible for the reasons that you just mentioned that the costs are so high. If you can save...

or delay two years of going into an assisted living, that's gonna save you tons of money.

And maybe you only spent a thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars in making some changes to your home. Perhaps it was creating a zero step entrance into your home, eliminating the stairs. That's going to increase safety by a lot. And it's also going to make your home universally designed. So it's going to be more appealing to people that are looking to buy your home in the future. And one thing we have to remember is all of us are aging, right? Now it's about 11.

Eve Hill (42:29.955)
Yeah.

Janet Engel (42:58.888)
10,200 baby boomers turning 65 every single day. It used to be 10,000. Now it's more than 10,000 and that's going to be happening until the year 2030. So the demand for these universally designed homes is only going to grow.

Eve Hill (43:18.924)
Yeah, I mean you get your, if you don't want to stay in your home forever, but you need to make renovations, make them with universal design and make them accessible because when you go to sell that house, it may be the only one on the block that's accessible and yet you have all these people that need accessible homes and they're willing to pay top dollar because it's hard to find.

Janet Engel (43:40.352)
or universally designed homes where you are not going to be putting things in that other people don't want. For example, a ramp, that would be accessible design. But if we eliminated the stairs and created a zero step entrance, then that would be considered universal design instead of accessible design. And that's appealing to everyone.

Eve Hill (44:06.634)
Right, yeah, we get caught up on some of this language. know, accessible design might turn people off, but universal design might not, or maybe it will. But you you talk about creating a zero step, and some people don't know what that is. But you can, I mean, there's things called rampscapes. Have you heard of the term rampscape? It's basically, it's landscaping up to your front door, or up to wherever you need that zero step, and you never know, and you don't...

need that much of an incline or that much. I mean, I was talking to a contractor of decades of experience and he was dispelling all these myths that, that you can't make a zero step entry because whatever is there in the topography. There are solutions. It's just people need to bust out of those old ways to see the potential in the new ways.

Janet Engel (44:59.846)
Well, it's the same reason why remodelers and builders don't create curbless showers from the beginning. Because they think, no, well, we have to keep the water in. But if you know how to construct a curbless shower and how to slope it correctly, or use some kind of system like rapid recess or Schluter that

Eve Hill (45:15.907)
Yeah.

Eve Hill (45:22.306)
for recess, yeah.

Janet Engel (45:25.122)
you can create that Kerbala shower without having to have so many skills, then you can easily do that.

Eve Hill (45:34.944)
Yeah, it is true that me getting educated in this is kind of amazing because I did a talk to Joseph Aero back up rapid recess and and he said the same he says it's easy. It's easy. Okay, maybe you know, he's like it doesn't even cost that much more maybe a couple hundred maybe but you know, it's beautiful. It's there. It's safe. It's yeah, there's no reason not to do it. And there are a lot of professionals in this sphere who just

Janet Engel (45:43.429)
Eve Hill (46:04.278)
presented as this is how I do it. They don't call it any kind of design. It's just this is how I do it and it's beautiful. So come and get it.

Janet Engel (46:14.09)
Mm-hmm. Eve, before we close today, can you summarize the key benefits of disrupting ageist attitudes for consumers, businesses, and the healthcare system?

Eve Hill (46:29.923)
Sure, I can. will because it's so all-encompassing because ageism negatively impacts all these things. Health, behavior, independence, economic status. So if we disrupt ageist stereotypes, everyone's going to benefit. We're going to have an increased amount of proactive home modifications, which is going to mean fall prevention, which is going to mean saving lives.

Janet Engel (46:30.854)
Thank

Eve Hill (46:53.966)
We're gonna save money for the healthcare system because there's gonna be less medical bills. Improving health means less medical bills. We're gonna have increased longevity when we dispel ageist stereotypes because research shows positive attitudes on aging give you up to seven and a half more years of living. And for society, we're gonna have more accessible homes because we're gonna have more demand and we're gonna have more homes to meet the demand. So, and for businesses, if we adopt

anti-ageism, if we get past the ageism stereotypes, we're going to build more better respectful relationships with our clients. And when we value them, we see past just their age. We're to be able to connect with them. We're going to be able to tailor our services better for them. And we're going to increase our market appeal to include all those older adults when we come off as the trusted expert resource.

Eve Hill (47:49.87)
I would say that dismantling, I mean what I said earlier, I think dismantling ageism in society is going to help us understand ourselves and what the aging process really is apart from all this other I've fallen in and can't get up stuff. And I think we're going to be able to, it might have a new dawning, a new awakening of some kind, unless it's what the next phase can be. We haven't defined it. We've just called it retirement, but it can be so much more within that.

You know, so much diversity. I could talk about some practical ways that we could, in our own lives, combat ageism and get started, if you have time for that. There's something called the, starting with our own implicit or internalized ageism, there's something called the implicit association test that Harvard set up, and it's online. And you can confront your own bias.

Janet Engel (48:30.906)
Go ahead.

Eve Hill (48:44.266)
It's at implicit.harvard.edu. And just so you know, that three quarters of the people that take this test find that they're biased against older adults. So don't judge yourself. Look at it as a scientist. Why do I think this way? society. It's not me. So let me catch myself. that's addressing your own age. if you want to look at how to maybe respond to ageism, when you see it, there are all these websites. A couple of them I mentioned.

There's reframingaging.org. There's oldschool.info. There's the American Society on Aging's website, which has an amazing toolkit of ages and awareness and resources and scripts of what to say, what not to say, and all these things can help us when we're talking to other people and to our clients and to ourselves, right?

So in general, just in your daily life, look for people that are busting the age of stereotypes, older adults that are doing things that you wouldn't necessarily put in that category if you weren't enlightened, right? They're hiking, they're running, they're starting new businesses. Look for those examples, notice them, share them, and let it seep into you and come out of you when you're dealing with the world.

The other thing that I do other than listening to your podcast which I find very valuable for educating myself about pro-aging There's other books and podcasts that I would recommend for people that are interested There's Becca Levy who I mentioned who did the study on longevity in seven and a half years She wrote a book called breaking the age code, which is really good Joseph Coughlin who I mentioned wrote the longevity economy. He's got a new book coming out about longevity hubs

Janet Engel (50:07.12)
Thank you.

Eve Hill (50:27.046)
There are other podcasts that I like like Julia. Louie Dreyfus is wiser than me where she talks to older adult women about their wisdom There's growing Boulder seniority authority Not born yesterday. I mean, there's there's a wonderful wealth of Positive information to take in so I would encourage anyone who's interested to do it

Janet Engel (50:49.57)
Well, thank you. was a great list of resources that you provided for our listeners and for myself. And I'm so excited that Joe Joseph Coughlin has another book because I've read his Longevity Economy at least twice and I would love to read. Do you know when it's going to be out?

Eve Hill (51:06.542)
Hmm.

Yeah, sometime in November. I'm not sure. I'm on their mailing list. Yeah. So, know, come to me at Customized Aging for information on resources. I'm happy to provide education or share the resources that I have.

Janet Engel (51:12.812)
Okay, so very soon.

Janet Engel (51:26.874)
What's your website, Eve?

Eve Hill (51:29.474)
We're at customizedaging.com and on Facebook and LinkedIn and Instagram at customized aging. And I'm just happy to promote the products and the services that are going to help older adults age in this new way that I think is possible.

Janet Engel (51:49.606)
All right, well, great. I will provide all of your links in the podcast notes so you can reach out to Eve and be able to age your way. Thank you, Eve, for sharing all of your knowledge with us.

Eve Hill (52:03.33)
Thank you very much.

Eve Hill (52:08.482)
Well, thank you for having me. I'll talk to you soon.

Janet Engel (52:10.98)
You're welcome.