Struggling with Progress? Leverage Your Inner Resources for Lasting Change.

Ever wondered how focusing on present barriers instead of past traumas can facilitate lasting change? If you're curious about a goal-oriented approach to therapy that empowers individuals to leverage their inner resources effectively, this episode is for you.

Welcome to this episode of "It's an Inside Job," hosted by Jason Lim. In this episode, we delve into an in-depth discussion with Betty Kuss, a renowned therapist known for her unique approach to facilitating lasting change by focusing on present barriers. Betty's methodology draws from solution-focused therapy, systems theory, Ericksonian hypnotherapy, and NLP, steering clear of prolonged analysis of past experiences.:

Imagine gaining insights from a therapist who helps clients achieve tangible progress and independence from therapy dependency. 

By listening to this episode, you can:

• Leverage Inner Resources: Learn how to harness unconscious patterns to overcome obstacles and transition to a more empowered state.
• Focus on Goals: Discover the importance of setting specific goals and taking actionable steps toward desired outcomes.
• Create Transformative Paths: Understand how reframing challenges as opportunities for growth can lead to lasting change.

Three Benefits You'll Gain:

1. Goal-Oriented Strategies: Practical advice on setting specific goals and taking actionable steps toward desired outcomes.
2. Resilience Cultivation: Insights into building resilience and transitioning to an empowered state efficiently.
3. Self-Empowerment: Techniques for accessing internal resources and understanding the structures influencing thoughts and behaviors.

Are you ready to achieve lasting change by focusing on present barriers and leveraging your inner resources? Scroll up and click play to join our enlightening conversation with Betty Kuss.

Gain the insights and strategies you need to set specific goals, take actionable steps, and create transformative paths in your life.

Bio:
Betsy has been a Psychotherapist for over 45 years, specializing in a Solution-Focused Approach. She has her Master Practitioner Certification in Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) and has been trained in and utilizes Educational Kinesiology, an excellent tool to integrate the mind and body. Betsy has trained with the founders in NLP, Solution-focused and Brief Therapy and Family systems interventions. She has worked with thousands of people in therapy over the years, passionately committed to helping them resolve problems and attain their goals and desires, quickly and effectively. Betsy believes in helping people access their own inner resources to get to their desired outcomes.

Contact:
Website:  https://www.betsykoos.com/
Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/betsykoos/

Chapters

• 0:08 Introduction
• 2:48 Meet Betsy Kuss
• 5:38 Contrasting Therapies
• 15:16 The Power of Metaphors
• 19:13 Well-Formed Outcome Conditions
• 23:27 Shifting Perspectives
• 27:23 Addressing Anger and Shame
• 33:27 Unveiling Betsy's Unique Approach
• 34:25 Mapping Change with Metaphors
• 35:46 Understanding and Working with Unconscious Responses
• 36:14 In the Stream with Betsy Kuss
• 39:45 Working with Severe Psychiatric Diagnoses
• 43:06 Exploring Core Transformation, Storytelling, and Metaphor
• 46:55 Connecting through Storytelling and Metaphors
• 48:10 Navigating Change with Clear Destination
• 51:12 Recognizing Positive Intentions of Inner Parts
• 53:52 Releasing Parts through Fulfilling Desires
• 55:42 Overcoming Hesitation toward Therapy
• 57:34 Allowing Parts to Naturally Release
• 59:07 Embracing Change and Accessing Inner Resources

Transcript

[0:00] Music.

[0:08] Back to It's an Inside Job podcast. I'm your host, Jason Liem. Now, this podcast is dedicated to helping you to help yourself and others to become more mentally and emotionally resilient so you can be better at bouncing back from life's inevitable setbacks. Now, on It's an Inside Job, we decode the science and stories of resilience into practical advice, skills, and strategies that you can use to impact your life and those around you. Now, with that said, let's slip into the stream.

[0:36] Music.

[0:43] Hey folks, welcome back to It's an Inside Job. I'm your host, Jason Liem. Today, I am thrilled to speak with Betty Koos, an expert in helping clients achieve their goals by focusing on present barriers rather than past experiences. Now, Betsy's approach is deeply influenced by her early training in Chicago in the early 70s, where she was introduced to the four founders of solution-focused therapy, systems theory, Ericksonian hypnotherapy, and NLP. Earlier in her career, Betsy worked with clients to help them access their own inner resources, aiming to reach their goals quickly and effectively. Alongside her husband, a psychologist, she ran a successful private practice for many years, helping people resolve problems and achieve their desired outcomes. After a brief retirement, they returned to work at a mental health center where Betsy observed a significant shift towards a problem-focused approach. She noticed how this method often led to people identifying with their diagnosis, feeling hopeless and helpless to change. Betsy believes there is nothing inherently wrong with people.

[1:51] We're all doing the best we can with what we have learned and experienced. Among many things we're going to be talking about today, three of the things that stood out for me was the behavioral insights, you know, practical advice on recognizing and understanding how unconscious behaviors have their deeper purposes. We're also going to talk about effective change strategies, techniques for developing a clear map for change and defining measurable outcomes. And a third important point that I brought from this conversation was resource access. We're going to talk about the insights into accessing and utilizing deeper personal resources to achieve the goals that we want. So without further ado, let's slip into the stream with.

[2:32] Music.

[2:48] It's so nice to be here. Thanks for having me. I was wondering if we could kick off. Maybe you could briefly introduce who you are and what you do. Great. I'd love to. So I've been a psychotherapist really since the early 70s, and I was initially trained with a bachelor's in psychology, and then I'll be sharing more of how I got to this But I've been continuing to work on how to help people create change and have choices to live the life they want and recognize that there's really nothing wrong with anybody, as we've tended to do in the general field of mental health. But just to realize that we're all doing the best we can. So I've been teaching that to really, I say, thousands of people because I've been doing short-term solution-focused therapy over the years. So I don't see people for a long time. So I see lots of different people, many of whom have come to me with a diagnosis. And my goal is to help people have choices and be able to make the changes that they want. So that's what I've been doing for really almost 50 years and I'm really so interested in helping more people learn how change is possible.

[4:15] So over five decades, you know, I've been on your website. We've had a pre-conversation before this and over five decades of experience. And obviously you brought in different disciplines into your psychotherapy practice that in a sense you've tailored or created your own bespoke way of helping people with their challenges. How is your therapy or the service that you provide different from sort of the traditional psychotherapy as we may know it? Okay. So traditionally, when people come in to mental health centers, they tend to diagnose people and kind of figure out how to treat symptoms with medication. And for me, I have worked initially in solution-focused therapies from the beginning, then got into mental health centers, and I could never understand how people could be put in these boxes and, you know, with these diagnoses and medications. And I was always open to looking at how to help people change and have choices. And I believe that it's always possible. It's just that unfortunately, usually what people are doing to try to help themselves hasn't been working.

[5:39] So we get caught in that. And the whole system of mental health, in quotes, gets caught in more of the same.

[5:49] And it really hasn't helped. And when I work with people.

[5:57] I want to find out what's really going on within them, and learn what are the patterns and programs of things without having to have people focus on rehashing their past because I think that just keeps people stuck in their past and stuck reliving their past. And when I see people, I want to help them focus on what are their goals. And people call me for a session, I will ask them to be thinking about that. And I just want to say that for most people, that's really the most difficult thing.

[6:35] Nobody's ever asked them what they want. They think they're supposed to come and talk about what's been going on in their lives that hasn't been working, thinking that's going to make a difference. But to me, when I look at what are the results of that, I don't see that it helps people. And I worked with so many people who've been in other therapies before they came to me and been in inpatient therapies and you know a lot of other treatments and they just kind of keep rehashing things and keep feeling like there's something wrong with them and I help people learn that what they're doing is based on an adaptive mechanism that was developed as a survival mechanism that just kind of is based on more of the unconscious patterns and programs so to me the only the way to help people change is to work with those unconscious patterns and programs recognizing that they always have had a deeper underlying purpose and positive intention.

[7:40] They're not working anymore but they're unconsciously generated so they do what they do that it doesn't work what does it do it does more of it so i say people are stuck winning in their hamster wheels going faster getting nowhere and in in the general mental health system that's what keeps getting perpetuated thinking if we can figure out where our problems came from that's going to make a difference but to me it really hasn't it keeps people stuck there So I really, in this map for change that I've developed, it's really about helping people focus on what it is they do want. Yeah, I'd love to discover with you the map of change because I agree with you with a school of thought that there's really no point in traipsing into the past and bringing up all the reasons why this happened. Because I think people get stuck and they get mired in that quagmire of the past. And it really doesn't move them forward. I concur with you. It's understanding the patterns that have been created in the past.

[8:51] But are playing out now that prevents a person from moving forward in whatever way that movement forward is defined by themselves. And it's working with those patterns. Because other than that, one thing you said I really like is sort of short term, right? It's looking at that. You don't have to drag this over years and years and years. Honestly, I don't think that serves any purpose. And again, this is my own anecdotal experience, my own experience.

[9:20] I honestly I don't see that helping anyone and I've always been of the of the mindset Betsy that you know 98 of the heavy lifting should be done by the client so he or she builds the confidence the know-how and the skills to go and maybe I'm one to two percent as a catalyst helping them along the way kicking some ideas around but at the end of the day hey, they can look back and say, I did this. I managed this.

[9:51] And to me, it's helping people access their deeper inner resources so they can take that with them moving forward and have other ways of dealing with situations as they happen, as opposed to, I think when you said it doesn't benefit anybody except for the therapist, you know. Pocketbook. Yeah, exactly. Then people get dependent on a therapist. And that's not helpful. I want to help people be able to know that they have what they need within and move forward as quickly and easily as possible. And as you know, we've talked about that Milton Erickson is really what's my role model from the beginning of when I started doing therapy. Because you've worked with Milton Erickson or you were a student of. And I was. I was a student of, from the very beginning, from the book Uncommon Therapy by Jay Haley. It's about Dr. Milton Erickson and all of his work, and I read that early on in my getting into the field.

[10:56] And found that he was able to help people who nobody else could help from around the world. He was a psychiatrist. They went to many other psychiatrists, couldn't get help. He would help them in a session or two. And so many people studied his work to learn how he did what he did. And that's what I've been learning is NLP, neurolinguistic programming, studied his work. Brief strategic therapy studies were a lot of solution focused. It focused a lot of people. So I've been studying that from the beginning. So Milton Erickson, he was also quite well known for his using metaphors in therapy. He would tell stories. Could you elaborate on what you learned about metaphors in therapy from Milton Erickson and how that's adopted or being created your bespoke way of running therapy for people to build resilience?

[11:51] Sure. So really, I think the whole idea, well, I'm going to say when I first saw him, he never asked me a question. He just turned to me and he hadn't even seen me. I walked in behind him, sat down to his left, and he turned to me and said, how did you get to be little Miss Innocent and got me into a trance state right away. Right. So to me, it's like getting people into a place where they're free to hear messages. And if we ever say to somebody, you know, I think you should do this and this, it tends to bring up a defensive response within people. I'm not going to do that. But if they hear, you know, I mentioned to this other person, I thought this would be a good idea. and kind of telling stories, people listen and they hear and they can integrate. And so that's the idea of metaphors. So he told stories the whole time, That I was there with him for a week with 10 other people from around the world. And I was always the one that sat to his left, which was the chair of the person he worked with.

[13:12] And so at the time I had walked in, I had been in an accident. And I walked in with a cane and the doctors had told me I'd never walked again without a hip replacement, which I didn't want to do at the time. So the first day he told stories about people climbing mountains to get higher, to see perspective, to all these things. And I was in an unconscious trance the whole time. But I heard him and I knew that. But so that day I went and I climbed Squaw Peak outside of Scottsdale.

[13:47] And there's a picture of me on my website going, yay, I did it. So, I mean, I didn't think I could walk. And he made the suggestion that helped me understand I could do anything.

[13:59] And it changes the mindset so much. So there's so much, you know, underlying that, that a lot of neurolinguistic programming has studied that we utilize of how to help people come from where they are, join people where they are, and guide people to a new, in a new direction that is to their benefit. So the use of metaphors, is that a way of discovering or digging up sort of patterns and programs in people's unconscious.

[14:32] Why they do certain things or why they think dysfunctional thoughts repetitively that are really not serving them? Them so to me i think some of what helps therapy be more short-term and solution focused again is not even having to go to the place of understanding why we are the way we are to be able to get from where we are to where we want to go so that's the key to me is you know When I help people focus on goals and where they want to be instead, I just want to help them move from where they are and clear whatever is in the

[15:14] way to get to where they want to be. So again, if I had a belief that I couldn't walk and then I experience that I can, I don't have to understand why I didn't think I couldn't. You know, I just, I want to be able to get to a place of creating the life that I want without spending any time or energy in it.

[15:39] Going into the past so i i just i guess my question was not to understand why the pattern was uh okay put into practice in the first place but our metaphors in a sense in sort of milton's therapy is it used to expose the pattern so you can once you're conscious of the roadblocks then you can remove the roadblocks per se but is that what metaphors help people to do right right and And be able to get to the place where they don't have the roadblocks.

[16:12] And it's a really interesting thing. And the other group that I studied a lot was brief strategic therapy from the Mental Research Institute in Palo Alto. It was John Weaklin, Richard Fish, Paul Watzlawick, Gregory Bateson, Jay Haley, a lot of the big names in family therapy. And they found that when people could experience one small strategic shift in their pattern, things would change, that people would get out of their ruts, running in their hamster wheels, doing more of the same that hasn't been working. And really, Jason, what I have found in working with so many people over the years, that's what we all do is we do, it's like in psychotherapy.

[17:01] We try to understand where, and I'm not saying that's what you said, but in general psychotherapy, we try to understand where problems came from. And we do that more and more and more. It doesn't work. And we do give people more medication. We try to figure out more where their, you know, problems came from. So it's like things keep going, doing more of the same that isn't working. So when we can do anything different, and for me in this example, being able to climb a mountain, you know, when I didn't think I could walk, that I didn't have to think about if I could walk again. You know it's like that was ingrained in my experience so a lot of change i think happened that is such a deep unconscious level and to me it's not necessary to know consciously where you know not where it came from but even what it is it's just can we do something different so that's what i'm always looking at when i'm talking about this map for change i want to look at where somebody is when they come in.

[18:10] What's going on that isn't working. You know, it's good to know. And I'll say a lot of people, I'll give an example, might come in and say, I'm depressed, you know? And so what I wanna do first is find out what that means to them, what is going on within them that's contributing. So that's going into what we call the deeper structure. And, and really finding out, for instance, this is a lot of what I hear people saying, I'm telling myself I'm never good enough. I'm telling myself I can never do something, you know. And that's just, we bring the unconscious patterns to the consciousness. Then we figure out, okay, so if you could be different and better, where would you want to be? Well, I would want to feel good about myself. So that's the goal. What is it that you need to do in order to get there? Well, I need to be kinder to myself.

[19:13] So then there's well-formed outcome conditions on my website and well-formed outcome of how are we going to know we're at least moving in the right direction. Okay, if I could just pause you for a second. So I think because what I'd like to do is just break down because I think this map of change is quite an incredible tool to understand because it's it's very tool based and it's very so step by step. So step one is I guess one of the just to rewind, one of the principles you have is we all have the resources we need, the internal resources in order to get to where we want to get to. two. And so step one is to define the problem state. The example you used, I might come in and say, hey, Betsy, I'm feeling kind of depressed. Maybe it's not clinical depression. Let's just say I'm just feeling kind of flat. I'm kind of depressed. So I clearly identify the issue that I'm facing. And then I try to be as specific as possible and avoid vague descriptions. Is that what I understand? Right. And yeah, so I don't want to assume that I know what that Because, I mean, that's, I'm going to just say, and he says there's chunking up, which then people would put all of those symptoms into a diagnosis. And I chunk down to find out what's really going on within you that's contributing to feeling depressed.

[20:41] And so I want to know what's going on in your thoughts, behaviors, you know, or I'm trying to make this change and I can't and I'm beating myself up. You know, we're bringing those things to the consciousness. And then the interesting thing about that is, for one, it's good to bring it to awareness. But to me, then, I want to help people find out if, okay, so is there a part of you that contributes to that, giving yourself that message?

[21:14] And I'll say the key to this map for change, as far as I'm concerned, is so, okay, so you're feeling bad about yourself. What are you doing to try to solve that one already? That's what I call your attempted solution. My attempted solution, yeah. What I'm trying to do to release the depression or get out of the funk I'm in. But obviously that is not working. I keep trying and trying. Right. So I'm trying to tell myself I love myself. But then this other part comes up and says, yes, but you're really a schmuck and you're not okay. You know, that keeps coming up. So to me, this is such a key and this relates to what the process of core transformation from Connie Ray and Tamara Andreas, that we recognize that these are parts and patterns that were learned early on to try to serve a deeper purpose and positive intention. Tension so when we do things to try to take those away it's in therapies mostly let's get over that let's tell yourself you're okay let's do whatever we need to do to work at the conscious mind.

[22:31] But it doesn't deal with the part that generated that response which is so every time we say i need to tell myself i love myself the other part is going to come in and say no there's you're not okay because this the unconscious is always there based on an adaptive mechanism to help us survive so we think of it as a deeper inner survival mechanism and we do things to try to take it away what happens it holds on tighter so in most mental health.

[23:04] They don't look at what is the result of what we're doing. We're doing what we're doing. It isn't working. What's wrong with people? We'll give them more medication. We'll, you know, we'll put them in more groups. We'll do whatever to try to change the conscious mind. But nothing's changing. So really, it's so important to recognize that what we're doing in the best

[23:25] way that we can isn't working. We need to do something different. And it isn't going to happen by trying to take it away. That's the attempt at fruition in traditional mental health, as I said. We need to work with that part. And those parts of us have always wanted something wonderful.

[23:46] So we work with the part to find out what it's there trying to do for us, not at the conscious mind, but at the inner mind, at the unconscious mind.

[23:55] And so we're always working on communicating with the part, helping us have what we've needed and wanted within so that we don't have to keep doing these things and being these ways so then that's to me we want to look at is what we're doing helping people actually move toward their goal we want to be able to experience results and that's the thing in my experience that mental health doesn't do and you know they don't pay attention to that and i tried to be on a committee to to figure out how to do that at a mental health center for two years and we couldn't figure it out because they have to generalize it so anyway so part of what you're saying is that i come in i'm telling you i'm slightly depressed i tell you the reasons why i think i'm depressed i talk about uh solutions or attempted solutions of trying to solve it but but I get stuck in a rut. I go through the same patterns. But what you're saying is to, you go sort of deeper into the brain through the therapy, through the specific questions to understand what are these fragmented bits of myself that have kind of fallen from the hole. And these fragmented bits are, it's trying to bring them back into, try to bring them back into the hole, but it's to understand that they have positive intentions, but the way those those fragmented bits are trying to create coping mechanisms.

[25:22] It helped some points in the past for a specific situation, but the world's moved on. I've moved on, but these patterns or coping mechanisms haven't. And what my brain tries to do again for the best is to, to paint everything. It sees everything as a nail. So it uses a hand, but what you're saying is that, okay, well.

[25:46] This attempt at solution is not working because of whatever reasons. But then what you talked about a little earlier is well-formed outcome conditions. And what I was reading is, as you defined it, it has to be positive or solution-oriented. It has to be specific. You have to articulate it down to the sort of the nuts and bolts. A third element you talked about was attainable. It has to be able to be reached. You can't be so far out that I'm going to create a self-fulfilling prophecy of defeat or failure. Exactly. The small sign of change, how are we going to know things are at least moving in the right direction? And that relates to what I was telling you about the brief strategic therapy group and how they looked at when people at least did something different, everything changed. And that's for me with climbing the mountain. In my brain it changed everything, it was a whole new paradigm it was a paradigm shift really so it's like helping people know that they can do what they want be who they want have what they want, what they're doing to try to get there now and.

[27:02] If it isn't helping, we need to find a way to do things different. And to me, the whole thing about trying to do things different and taking away a deeper inner survival mechanism has only made it hold on tighter.

[27:16] How to find a way to work with it, to help it have what it's wanted, which is always something wonderful.

[27:24] So it helps people access their deeper inner resources even more because this part always wants something wonderful if i can give you a brief example yes please that'd be great to illustrate uh to take it from the theoretical down to the practical yeah so i mean just yesterday i worked with a woman who was just so overcome with anger and then such shame about her anger and driving her to smoke more and eat more and all those things she didn't want and so to me I always look for where to begin with the pattern to help her, sort of the domino effect help her have choices so what we did was we worked with the part that generated the response of that desire to smoke because that was so present in her and she could get into the experience of that and asking her through that what do you this part of me want and and i really guide people into the experience it's not in their brain and if they look they're looking in the wrong place they go within and the answer is always there and she said it's there to protect me well of course it doesn't make sense because it's an unconsciously generated response.

[28:43] And so we invite the part to step into it's like oh to feel protected and loved.

[28:50] And she felt that sense of feeling protected and loved, and then that helped her feel whole, and it helped her connect to her source. And that was what we got to as the core state. So she had that sense of feeling connection to her source. And then what we do is take it back up through when you feel connection to your source. Notice how that radiates through and enriches feeling more whole.

[29:17] Feeling more a sense of knowing you are loved and protected being able to have a choice to release the you know to transform the part that used to generate the response to the stare to spoke and she just had and then we take it back to when it first started and for her it was like at birth when she didn't get her oral needs met you know so that's how we get to the the past it comes up that way and it doesn't even matter but then we take the core state back to the younger part and through the body and how that helps coming from that place just makes a difference now and I thought I had to think about the situation where she used to feel angry and it was like she just laughed and it just didn't affect her in the same way so it's really helping people have that deeper inner state of having what that part has wanted within that helps them then have the choice to grow that part up.

[30:20] Otherwise, I'll just say we get arrested at the developmental stage when that was learned. That part has been operating from like a newborn, you know, so it can't be logical and rational. So using this woman as a vehicle to sort of understand this. So she comes in, she's telling you she's a chain smoker or what have you. She's got these behavioral patterns that she really doesn't want and it's not really serving her. And so what you do is you sit her down, you get her into a quiet state where her mind relaxes, and then you ask her, what is the reason you think this behavior is here?

[30:59] And so she sits there quietly, and then she sort of reflects on that until something kind of percolates up from the unconscious. Conscious okay and i'm just gonna say that when when we get into the core transformation i think it's going to be really important to utilize what kind of and tamera already have but there's such a clear process and so i'm just gonna say this that that we so much want to use the language of going within and we if we say ask the part what's the reason it's going to guide people to their mind okay just mine and when we go within and we really have to teach people that you know that that's where the answers are they aren't they aren't here there's a specific terminology or a specific language you use not what what's the reason or why why are you doing this but you said when you go the part experience so i had her for a moment experience the anger Because being in the experience is the way to communicate with the unconscious. As opposed to thinking about why was I angry? It's going within and asking the part that generates anger. What do you want?

[32:21] I want to protect you. I want to help you know you're lost. And it's really when you think about it, when you have all the information, if this pattern was learned at birth when we don't have any logic or rational concept it's trying to get its needs met trying to get its oral needs met it's not getting it the response is what anger you know it's like as adults we define what that is but as a infant you know it just is just as an experience. So it really gets to the core of the experience of where that I think of it as a pattern in a program. The program was developed and.

[33:05] Feel that anger response and it was associated somehow with her connection with her source, you know, so as she has connection with her source that radiates through and allows her to have another experience and another choice without having to go through the conscious mind understanding.

[33:28] Understanding. In part one of my conversation with Betty Koos, we delved into her unique approach to helping clients achieve their goals. Now, Betsy focuses on what is preventing clients from reaching their goals in the present rather than rehashing their past. Her method involves helping people understand that their behaviors are often based on adaptive mechanisms developed as survival strategies. Now these behaviors are driven by unconscious patterns and programs which Betsy helps clients recognize and understand as having a deeper purpose and positive intention. Betsy explains that while these dysfunctional patterns and programs may not work effectively the brain continues to use them because it doesn't have any alternative tools. In essence the brain sees everything as a nail because it only has a hammer. So this in turn leads people to feeling stuck, like they're running on a hamster

[34:24] wheel without getting anywhere. Betsy helps her clients access their deeper resources to move forward and to achieve their goals. Now a significant part of her approach involves using metaphors to help clients integrate new thoughts and ideas. This technique was influenced by her time with Milton Erickson. Now over the decades and the vast experience and knowledge she's accumulated.

[34:48] Betsy created her map for change. So in order to facilitate change, Betsy gathers the necessary information to develop a clear map and define a destination. In the initial steps, it's important to clarify what brought someone to the point of wanting change, which she defines as the problem state. For example, if a client feels depressed, she helps them identify what they are doing that contributes to this feeling, such as negative self-talk. Next, she defines the goal using well-formed outcome conditions. For instance, if a client wants to be happy, they might need to start being kinder to themselves. She also examines what the client has already tried to solve their problem. If their current approach isn't working, she encourages them to try something different. If a client's goal is to be kinder to themselves but they struggle with self-criticism, Betsy helps them recognize that this is an unconscious generated response,

[35:42] stemming from an early learned survival mechanism, or in other words, a coping mechanism. Betsy works with these patterns to help clients understand their inner needs and to find better ways to meet them. So in summary, Betsy's process involves defining the problem state, establishing a desired outcome using measurable conditions, identifying attempted solutions, and interrupting ineffective patterns. She helps clients recognize and work with unconscious responses to achieve their goals, measuring progress through behavioral change and results.

[36:15] So now let's slip back into the stream with part two of my conversation with Betsy Kuss.

[36:19] Music.

[36:24] To spend time going through people's horrible past and dragging, dredging it up and reliving it with them, because that's not useful. But helping people be in a different inner state.

[36:38] Allows and and it really reprograms that pattern i find that very interesting because i'm always of the school of mind that you know we have this human operating systems which goes from head to heart to hand or from thinking to feeling to doing and that doing could be our behavior there could be perspectives we take on as things our opinions or attitudes so rewinding back to to what you said, you asked that fragmented part of that person, what do you want? But what I think I heard you say is that you go through the emotion, which is connected to that part. So they get into that emotional state, in this case, this woman's anger, and that through accessing the feeling that allows you to access the part or to rewind back to the thinking or maybe the narrative that they've assigned to a particular pattern or dysfunctional behavior or what have it. Is that part of what I understand? I always say to people, I will do my best to explain it, but you'll never know what it is unless you experience it. And I share that in this Map for Change class as a piece of it that's a very important piece of how to work with parts as opposed to trying to get rid of them.

[37:51] But it's really allowing a sense of the experience of what it's like, Like, you know, as you can all, as she can have that sense of feeling protected already within her, then, and then that helped her to feel whole. She feels whole within and she feels that sense of connection to her source, with her words.

[38:13] She has that within, having that within already. And I'm just going to say that psychologically for my training, that, you know, in our development, in our childhood development, when we're little, we have no resources within.

[38:33] We have to, if we don't get what we need outside, if we do get what we need outside of us, then we get to integrate it within us. If we don't, we learn patterns of how to do things and be ways to get it. So that's where we get stuck. Then it doesn't work because it's not logical and rational. It doesn't stop and go, oh, this doesn't work. I'll do something different. It says, oh, this didn't work. I'm going to do more of it. So that's where I see people stuck, doing more of the same based on when it was learned as an adaptive mechanism. So trying to take it away doesn't work, only holds on tighter, helping it have what it's wanted.

[39:14] I feel like that heals the inner child, if you want to put words to it, that helps that. But it gives to that younger part as though it could have had the connection to source then, you know, that it couldn't have had or known of. I mean, it did, but because of its environment that it got taken away in a sense. So it adapted in a way to try to keep getting that.

[39:40] Doesn't make any sense, but of course, a little infant, it doesn't,

[39:43] you know, we don't have a way to think about things. That's where we're stuck. duck so the whole idea is how to find a way to really i think heal that help that part have a choice as it it can only i think to me having worked with thousands of people for 50 years, it i don't see any other way to help that part have a choice than having the experience of what it's wanted within that communicates to the unconscious at a cellular level really so how How do you work with, you know, I was reading you've also worked with people with severe psychiatric diagnoses. I mean, is it a similar process or is it like how do you work with clients who do have sort of neurotic diagnoses or severe psychiatric diagnoses? Yeah. And the very interesting thing about that, Jason, is that what I've learned over the years is if somebody comes to me with a diagnosis, it means that they've already been in some other treatment.

[40:50] If somebody, you know, the people I worked with in Chicago when I was when we worked with all kinds of people, but we worked in a solution focused way. So we didn't diagnose people. people so that's how I was trained then I got you know as an adult later and went back to work at a mental health center and found out people come in they have to get a diagnosis because that's how we build that's how we get paid but then they become their diagnosis and then then they because of their diagnosis that's who they think they are and then they got on medication and it treats the symptom, it never treats the problem. So being able to.

[41:33] Work i worked with so many people at the mental health center who came to me with bipolar schizophrenia or whatever and so to me what i would do for one if they're on so much medication, it's very difficult because we can't really access the part that we need to work with it's kind of masked and unfortunately if people are oftentimes on medication that's what they think is the answer and they're not that motivated to work on thing doing things differently and it takes motivation to change so if and when and as people would come in i would actually again so if somebody came in with a bipolar diagnosis i'd find out what was going on and oftentimes they they would have these reactive responses that wouldn't make sense and to me what i saw was usually they were operating from ptsd which is never a logical conscious response you see something that reminds you of the past trauma triggers it and sends people back into it yeah for people who don't know ptsd is post-traumatic stress disorder just Thank you. Thank you. So I would find out what's really going on and work with that and help people develop goals.

[42:59] And for a lot of people, they even think about, oh, it's possible to be different.

[43:04] I could be how I want to be. What would that be? So even guiding people into developing that part of their brain because what we focus on I think is what we perpetuate and if we keep focusing on I'm depressed or I'm bipolar whatever so I think I just want to be sure that people are in a place where they're willing to work on what's going on and if they are I've seen so much change I had one psychiatrist at the mental health center that paid attention and noticed all the people I worked with were getting better and they would even mention it to me usually they didn't recognize them yes I know it was great so it's possible so I'm curious now because we've we've talked about a number of things you've talked about Connie Ray in terms of Andrea's core transformation you've talked about Milton Erickson and metaphors and there's also storytelling I was wondering with this confluence of core transformation transformation, storytelling, and metaphor. I was wondering if you could elaborate. Is there a connection how you use core transformation and storytelling and metaphor? Do you use it together or are these separate processes that you tease apart?

[44:18] Well, I guess I think of it as storytelling and metaphors, again, as finding a way to join people where they are. And a lot of what Milton Erickson would do was, and this is what we learned through many, many thousands of hours of NLP training, is how to pay attention to unconscious responses to notice small pupil dilations or.

[44:46] Contractions you know and lip size change and color change in their face and all that you know that's so that's how he got information he would tell stories and if it matched where people were he would keep going if it didn't he would do things differently so that's certainly what i've learn to do and so I'm always doing that always making sure I have rapport with people always being sure that what we're doing helps them move in the right direction I always want people to feel better when they leave a session when then when they came in as opposed to they came in they felt fine and they're sitting down talking about their problems they leave more depressed I don't want to do that so so it's just always being able to again the idea of the telling a story is joining people where they are yeah taking them where you want them to go so it might be talking about anything climbing a mountain or you know seeing that when you get higher there's fewer people, that it's more beautiful, whatever it is that guides people. And obviously, it was way more than just climbing a mountain. It was helping me shift in many perspectives.

[46:07] I find it very interesting because when I'm working with clients, most of my clients are within corporations or organizations and they have different things they go under through pressure and stress and tension or duress or whatever it may be, anxiety or depression based on the business or leading people and such. And sometimes what I find is that storytelling is where I will take maybe another client I've had maybe years ago or just months ago or maybe last week.

[46:38] Tell the story of what that particular client went through without naming company or a person's name or anything. But I find that what you were talking about, sometimes you can see people's, how their eyes or how they lean forward and such.

[46:52] You can see when that story you're saying kind of connects with them. And when it doesn't, where they kind of unconsciously withdraw and then, okay, obviously I'm not making a connection here. But I think the story of another person's experience actually serves as a vehicle because a lot of people, from what I understand, is that we tend to see ourselves in that story as the. Absolutely. The unconscious mind can relate a lot better than like we were saying at the beginning. If we say you should do this, then we get the defenses. If we can, we kind of want to be able to help it. And I think that's great that you pay attention and notice if what you're saying and doing, that's the thing that I feel hasn't happened in a lot of mental health, is we don't pay attention to if what we're doing as the professional is helping the person.

[47:49] You know, it's like if they're keeping problems with them, then it's almost like we're blaming the victim and we're saying, well, there's something wrong with them. Whereas, you know, I'm the professional. I'm the one that's supposed to be there to help them.

[48:06] And I always want to make sure that I'm helping people get the results they want. Aren't so that's that's again small movement without too great of an expectation what it is we need to do within to get there how can we do things differently in a way that doesn't work against those parts works with those parts allows change to happen that's to me going on a trip we want to have a clear destination in mind in order to get there we want to know if what we're doing is.

[48:40] On the right road to be able to get there if it is great if not let's do something different one of the things i love about nlp there's lots of presuppositions they say there is no failure only feedback so we can do something if it works great if it doesn't then we self-correct and do whatever we can and need to to keep making sure we're helping people get where they want and being Being in a place of defining ourselves by our problems, I don't think has been very helpful. And being able to help people have an experience of making change toward where they want to go helps develop confidence, self-esteem in wonderful ways. That helps us access our inner resources more and not think of ourselves as damaged goods. And that's unfortunately a lot of the people that I see come from having had other therapies and diagnoses and things that we have to undo to help.

[49:49] Them recognize that change really is possible. I think something you've said repeatedly through this, which is very salient, is sort of the labels and terminology we put on people. I mean, we're constantly labeling ourselves.

[50:03] You know, one of the things that I like to work with a lot is not just self-awareness, but self-compassion. And I find, you know, and I've spoken ad nauseum on this podcast about it, but a lot of the times we show compassion for others, but when it comes to ourselves we label ourselves with such derogatory or brow-beating type of language on ourselves but it's just that you know one of my children years ago was um was diagnosed diagnosed with the sort of mild form of dyslexia and and they thought i am dyslexic i said no you're not dyslexic it's just a different way of learning there's nothing broken there's nothing wrong Your brain is just... You almost have to undo the diagnosis with somebody so they don't get that. You have to actually strip the label, right?

[50:52] And I think it's the same thing. It's not you were good for doing that. No, you did a good thing. We're not always defined by one behavior. And I think that's a very salient, a very astute point you've made. Just to hit home the seriousness that sometimes we don't understand the impact

[51:09] of what a label we give to others or we give to ourselves. Selves and how that can impede us from moving forward exactly and if i may just expand on that in the sense that one of the things i love about core transformation so much is the learning of recognizing that these parts that we've been trying to get rid of and not liking have really been there with a deeper underlying purpose and positive intention to me i think that people People always come in with, I do this and I hate myself for it. I do that.

[51:47] You know i'm smoking too much and then i try to quit and then i do it more so when the more we can help those people recognize those parts are there trying to serve a purpose and meet a need, i absolutely believe jason that that's a lot of what creates more inner peace and that's that's i mean it's like we stopped fighting with those parts i'll just say one of the requirements for For me, when I became a trainer for the core transformation, was Connie Ray asked me to do 100 core transformations with myself. So I would always be looking for these parts to come up. Oh, this part that worries. Oh, this part is there with a deeper poop that's in positive intention.

[52:34] It's trying to help me at some level. I'm going to ask the part through being here, what do you want? So I think that whole thing of learning, these aren't, you know, know a lot of people say oh that part is sabotaging me well it's not a conscious part that's trying to sabotage you it's there with a deeper purpose and more the more we can work with it and help it get what it's wanted the more we have that within the more we don't just those parts melt away naturally and easily and i've seen it so many times it's so wonderful but it's a very different way of working it's helping really accept ourselves and all those parts of us and not feel like oh there's this diagnosis and something wrong with me but this part is there trying to help and i think that's why we call it coping mechanisms you know because the brain or the psychology and the physiology of the brain and body it doesn't do anything without you know without good intentions. It's trying to create, you know, it may turn a paper tiger into a tiger, but the reason it does that is because of our wetware, our evolutionary programming is to keep us safe, life and limb.

[53:47] But the way it does it may be counterproductive. And that's why we call it a coping mechanism. And at some point, the coping mechanism helped us cope, but now it's not a coping mechanism now it's it's something that's dysfunctional although it has a positive intention it's there to help serve us and that's to me the key that unlocks the door if i may say that is having the experience of what the part has wanted and that's that's the whole way that i think i work differently than a lot of people you know that it as much as i don't need to go through the conscious mind understanding and just help people have the experience within, that's where I see so much transformation and change and really...

[54:41] When that part has what it's wanted, it's just a natural, easy release. It doesn't need to keep doing those things and being those ways. Because, I mean, it knows it doesn't work, but it's been doing it anyway. But when it knows that it has what it needed within, that's what helps release those parts and really helps us learn to work with parts and not keep trying to push them away or judge them or diagnose them or do things that really ultimately haven't been helping.

[55:18] I think a lot of what you've mentioned today is very salient because a lot of people may avoid counseling or therapy or however we want to call it because they don't want to be labeled or have a diagnosis.

[55:31] Or rehash their problems. I just don't want to go. That's what I hear from him. I don't want to come in and have to talk about all my problems.

[55:38] And I said, good, because I don't want to hear about it. You don't need to. But because of that, you know, because of that reluctance of some people, what advice would you give to someone who is considering therapy but feels hesitant, who feels unsure? I would not recommend going to somebody who's going to be problem-focused and give you a diagnosis and medication. But I really think we want to be able to make sure that what we're getting from a professional is helping us get what we want. I always say you wouldn't go to a car mechanic who diagnosed the problem of your car and sent you home with it. You wouldn't pay for somebody who didn't help get you the results you want. So i think that's the same thing in our field is we and people don't know how to think about what are my goals and how am i going to know that what i'm doing is helping me move in the right direction to get there so i really kind of have to help guide people into that more that's something they can start with but but it's like is what you're getting helping.

[56:48] If it is great, if it's just rehashing the problem, we don't want to keep doing that. And if I could just say briefly that I think the whole thing that we talk about in our field about resistance to change has to do with the fact that these are parts of us that are holding on and nobody wants them. Somebody just to try to rip away our anger or, you know, or beating our own selves up, whatever it is that we're doing.

[57:18] Because it's really, it's so deeply unconsciously generated and that is going to override anything conscious.

[57:26] So we really want to help. I want to help people know I absolutely honor parts that are there. We will find a way to work with them in a way to help you have what it's wanted so that it can naturally and easily release without setting up an inner conflict, setting up more of an inner power struggle with that part, but allowing it just to gently and easily have a choice. Brilliant. We are coming close to the top of the hour. I'm very respectful of your time. I have one last question. If you could impart, you know, 50 years of wisdom and knowledge, That is useful across the board. What do you want people to know? What would you like our listeners to take away with them today? Okay. I want people to know that change is possible.

[58:22] And if what you're doing hasn't been working, there are ways to do things differently. Sometimes we can do that ourselves. Sometimes we need to have some guidance of how to do things differently, because we all have gotten caught up in doing more of the same of what isn't working with. We all know it's the definition of insanity. We want to be able to have a choice to do things differently. And it is so possible when we find ways to go about doing things differently and I want people to know they have the resources within and it's necessary and useful sometimes to help

[59:04] access those to work with a professional. And if you come to somebody, please notice if what you're doing is helping, keep doing it and if not do something different brilliant Betsy Betsy Kuz thank you very much for your time today and sharing your knowledge and imparting a lot of your wisdoms half a century of knowledge and skills and experience goes a long way well I have been through it all I must say and I again I just will say I'm so grateful for this opportunity I'm grateful for having learned from.

[59:39] Many of the masters in our field and it is so much my desire to be able to impart that in whomever is interested in learning more about it. So whether you want things individually or as a group, we'll find ways to be able to help guide people into finding the ways to do things differently and help their life work. So I appreciate this opportunity.

[1:00:00] Music.

[1:00:08] Folks, I hope my conversation with Betsy Koos provides you with some valuable insights and some practical strategies for breaking free from ineffective patterns. So you are able to achieve those goals, to achieve the outcomes you're looking for. I mean, in this episode, there was a lot to unpack. But one of the major messages that I'd like you guys to remember is this. You know from my conversation with Betsy is that to understand that the emotions and the thoughts that our brains generate is always positive intent it is there as a survival mechanism it's there to serve us in a sense of keeping life and limb out of danger to keep us safe but the challenge is sometimes how the brain does it is ineffective or counterproductive and these patterns and these programs that we have, well, it's to recognize them for their positive intent, but it's to mix it up, to change it, to learn to adapt. And this, at the end of the day, is the heart of resilience and equanimity. It leads us down the road to optimism and well-being. If you'd like to get in touch with Betsy, I will leave all her contact information in the show notes as well as any relevant links. Thank you, Betsy, from me to you for spending some time with us today and sharing your knowledge and experience.

[1:01:30] Well, folks, here we are crossing a finish line of another episode. I appreciate you showing up and allowing me to be part of your week. If there's anyone you think who could benefit from this episode, please send them the link. Well, until the next time we continue this conversation, keep well, keep strong.

[1:01:50] Music.