EP25: Feeding Time – How To Make It Fun, Not Frustrating

Interview with Jill Castle / Expert on Feeding Kids For Maximum Health and Happiness

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

Parenting is some combination of exhausting and exhilarating. Making healthy meals can fall into the exhausting category. And it’s complicated: if Daddy is drinking a rum punch and attacking a basket of fried seafood, can he really tell his kids to skip the Shirley Temples and chicken fingers? Jill Castle, childhood nutrition expert and founder of The Nourished Child, has some answers. She worked at Massachusetts General Hospital and Boston Children’s Hospital before starting her own practice. She’s also a mother of four – and here’s where theory met practice: it wasn’t always easy for her to get her own children to eat. They’re all adults now, so she figured it out. But listen to her journey as a professional and a parent – it’s instructive for all of us.

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Transcript

00;00;05;01 - 00;00;23;17
Paul Sullivan
I'm Paul Sullivan, your host on the Company of Dads podcast, where we explore the sweet, sublime, strange and silly aspects of being a dad in a world where men are not always the primary packs. One thing I know from personal experience is being a dad does not the traditional role for men. Parenting is so often left to mothers or paid caregivers.

00;00;23;20 - 00;00;41;03
Paul Sullivan
But here at the Company of dads, our goal is to shake all that off and create a community for fathers who stepped up to be the lead dad. And for other dads who want to learn from today. My guest is Jill Castle, childhood nutrition expert and founder of The Nourished Child. Jill graduated from Indiana University with a nutrition science degree.

00;00;41;09 - 00;01;00;24
Paul Sullivan
She then moved to Boston to begin her internship at Massachusetts General Hospital. She was hired there and worked with hospitalized children. Later, she moved to Boston Children's Hospital. She's also a mother of four. And here's where theory meets practice. She's admitted it wasn't always easy for her to get her own children to eat, since they're all adults now.

00;01;00;25 - 00;01;08;18
Paul Sullivan
She figured it out, but her journey as a professional and a parent should be instructive to all of us. Jill. Welcome to the company of Dads podcast.

00;01;08;20 - 00;01;10;13
Jill Castle
Thanks so much for having me, Paul.

00;01;10;19 - 00;01;23;23
Paul Sullivan
All right. I want to start off with something here before I go into the questions, give you a chance to talk about something that is near and dear to you. You just sold the book. Tell me about it. What's the book about? What's your what's the working title? When's the expected pub date?

00;01;23;25 - 00;02;05;06
Jill Castle
Well, I don't have answers to all of those questions, but the the working title is called Size Wise How to Nourish and Build Healthy Habits and Children at Every size, from preschool to pre-teen. And it is a nutrition and habit building book, with a special emphasis on how we talk to our children who are in different sized bodies, how we include them, how we create, acceptance of diverse bodies and build children with a great self-esteem so that we're not only nourishing them for physical health, but we are also nurturing their emotional well-being.

00;02;05;13 - 00;02;15;27
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. I mean, is it a we're going to not really go out on a limb here, but is that something that came directly out of your your, your practice as a nutritionist, or how did that become the topic of of your first book?

00;02;15;29 - 00;02;41;21
Jill Castle
It started with my desire to want to write a book about, childhood obesity or children just growing up in bigger bodies and how to help parents sort of navigate that tricky, tricky topic. But as I started looking at sort of our cultural norms, for example, you know, we all our culture believes that thin and fit is equal to healthy.

00;02;41;21 - 00;03;12;18
Jill Castle
But there are larger bodied people who are healthy and there are smaller body people who are also healthy. But there's this discrimination and stigma around body size. And when I realized that children in smaller bodies also experience the same type of stigmatization, and parents who are raising underweight children, children who aren't growing well, they had the same anxiety and stressors as parents who are raising larger body children.

00;03;12;20 - 00;03;34;07
Jill Castle
And the reality is, you know, we have I think it's 14.5 million children who are in larger bodies and 2 million children in smaller bodies. And we only have 77 million children in the United States anyway. So about 20 to 25% of our kids are not sort of the mid-sized body that we say is, that is desirable.

00;03;34;10 - 00;03;59;21
Jill Castle
And so rather than sort of focusing on this child has a problem, we need to change this child. It's really adopting a whole family approach to nourishing and building the habits that will lead to a healthy lifestyle, no matter what your body size is like. If you're getting enough sleep, you're moving enough. You're eating well. You take care of your yourself.

00;03;59;24 - 00;04;03;17
Jill Castle
You can grow up and be a healthy person no matter your size.

00;04;03;18 - 00;04;20;21
Paul Sullivan
Because that's always been your emphasis as a nutrition. It's always on health. It's not on, you know, if it kind of ties in really well with this moment of wellness. Have you found that, you know, during the pandemic, that it was it was harder for children to, to eat healthy as you know, I become a late night snack or which I know is not good.

00;04;20;23 - 00;04;27;18
Paul Sullivan
But I'm trying to break myself of that habit. But, I mean, what were some of the effects that that the pandemic had on, children and their health?

00;04;27;25 - 00;04;51;13
Jill Castle
That's a great question. So with the stay at home orders, more children were schooling from home. We know more snacking. Snacking has increased amongst children. Ultra processed food consumption has increased. So we're talking more like sweets and treats, that kind of thing from that. We know that more children are struggling with their body weight.

00;04;51;16 - 00;05;41;05
Jill Castle
But even above and beyond that emotional well-being, mental health issues have really skyrocketed since the pandemic. So we can't I don't feel like as a as a health care professional, I don't think that we can just continue to bang the drum of raising a physically healthy child. I think we have to look at the whole child that whatever we're doing in terms of changing food or changing our feeding approaches or emphasizing exercise, we have to do it with a mind, a mindset that focuses also on the fact that we're raising kids, who who have self-esteem and body image and emotional, an emotional state that that should be moving down the road

00;05;41;05 - 00;05;45;06
Jill Castle
to, to well-being, not just focused on physical health.

00;05;45;08 - 00;06;07;20
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, I know one of the things you felt you talked about there, and you focus on this more generally is the whole family. And that that family unit and I think is, you know, you're a mom of four. I'm a dad of three. And, you know, parenting is some combination of exhausting and, exhilarate. And, you know, making healthy meals can fall into that, you know, exhausting category.

00;06;07;21 - 00;06;27;20
Paul Sullivan
You know, what are some of the, you know, simple things for parents to, to keep in mind, you know, meal after meal, night after night, week after week, you know, month after month. I mean, how should they look at, you know, what they're trying to do, you know, on the, the, the spectrum. We you know, we all love kale, but we can't have kale, every meal of every day.

00;06;27;22 - 00;06;50;08
Jill Castle
Yeah. No. Exactly. I think, simple is always good, especially when it comes to kids. And I know you know this, but kids love to be able to identify what they're eating. They want to know what it is and identify it by looking at it. And so, you know, making nutritious meals that are pretty straightforward and simple.

00;06;50;08 - 00;07;18;17
Jill Castle
I think parents tend to think that they they need to be complicated and involved. And the truth is, while you don't necessarily want to serve a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and orange slices and carrot sticks and milk every night for dinner, a simple meal like that is equally as nourishing as something that's more complicated. So that's the first thing, like recognizing that you don't have to be, super complex with your meal planning.

00;07;18;19 - 00;07;28;09
Paul Sullivan
When you think of like 2 or 3, top simple meals that are nourishing for the for the child and the whole family. What are 2 or 3 that come to mind?

00;07;28;11 - 00;07;54;15
Jill Castle
I think, you know, a dish that involves pasta with a protein source, like chicken or beans. Is great fish if you can, if your children can eat it. And then pairing that with whatever fruit your child likes, it can be canned, it can be frozen, it can be fresh, raw vegetables, a lettuce wedge, something simple, especially if your child isn't a big vegetable eater.

00;07;54;15 - 00;08;23;02
Jill Castle
Starting with the simple vegetables like, even raw asparagus. Kids like raw vegetables that can be paired with a dip. A wedge of lettuce, with some salad dressing. And then always, I, I prefer, a nutritious beverage to accompany meals. I tend to go with milk. A lot of people might choose something different. If they choose an alternative to milk, just make sure it has protein in it.

00;08;23;02 - 00;08;44;23
Jill Castle
And it's fortified with calcium and vitamin D, so it adds some meaningful nutrition to your child's, meal. But so and again, I always, when I'm planning my meals, I start with a protein source. So, is a chicken as a beef as a fish? Is it beans? Is it not butter? Is it eggs? Is it cheese?

00;08;44;25 - 00;09;09;14
Jill Castle
So that protein is really satiating for a child. It will fill up their belly. It will help them make it to the next meal or the next snack, and then round out from their whole grains, preferably like brown rice or whole wheat pasta or whole wheat bread or rolls, fruit and vegetable. A lot of parents think vegetable, vegetable, vegetable with meals, but I'm like fruit and vegetable.

00;09;09;14 - 00;09;16;01
Jill Castle
So if your child won't eat the vegetable, you've got the fruit and the nutrients from the fruit that are very similar to those of vegetables.

00;09;16;03 - 00;09;34;25
Paul Sullivan
If you think of, you know, the two, you know, 21 meals, in a week, if a parent, you know, wanted to establish a good, you know, win loss record, what would that what would that look like for, you know, really having successful meals for you feel like the kid, you know, ate something nutritious versus the ones where you know you're not going to win every game?

00;09;34;28 - 00;09;42;21
Jill Castle
Yeah. I think if you're getting two good meals into your child a day, you're doing pretty well. Get a good solid snack into your child today. You're doing really well.

00;09;42;23 - 00;10;00;19
Paul Sullivan
Okay. All right. Good. You know, when I think about, you know, cardinal sins, I mean, are there any, you know, cardinal sins for for feeding a child? I mean, my doctors telling me, you know, don't or swordfish. And, you know, I've already copped to some, you know, late night strategy. He said, you know, Paul, lay off the cheese.

00;10;00;19 - 00;10;13;18
Paul Sullivan
You know, your cholesterol doesn't need any more. Any any more cheese, you know, are there cardinal sins that the parents make when it comes to to feeding their children that if they just knew it was a bad idea, maybe they could stop doing it?

00;10;13;20 - 00;10;27;23
Jill Castle
Yeah. So when it comes to food, I think, you know, and feeding, it's the techniques, the interactions between children that cause more problems, I think, than the food itself. So pressuring.

00;10;27;23 - 00;10;33;17
Paul Sullivan
Kids, interaction like amongst their siblings or amongst their know the parent parent, the kid.

00;10;33;21 - 00;10;51;14
Jill Castle
And the parent and the child. And we call that feeding. Right? So we've got food, which is actually the food that we eat. We have feeding, which is the interaction between the parent and the child. So take another bite, finish your meal before you leave. Oh, don't forget, your milk is right there. Make sure you drink it.

00;10;51;17 - 00;11;19;28
Jill Castle
You know, these are like these are called, pressure to eat. It's a feeding technique that many parents do, and it's counterproductive. If you have a picky eater, it can make the picky eater, be turned off and refuse to eat. If you have a child who's really willing to do whatever you say, it can override their appetite and actually encourage them to over eat and over time, children get trained to overeat when we do that.

00;11;19;28 - 00;11;44;12
Jill Castle
So, pressure to eat, I would say, is a cardinal sin that many, many parents are doing. The other one I would say is rewarding with food. So sort of, saying if you finish your dinner, you can have dessert. If you're good at the doctor's office, you can have a lollipop. If you get good grades, I'll take you out for ice cream.

00;11;44;14 - 00;12;12;23
Jill Castle
So these are food rewards that basically change the hierarchy of food in a child's mind. So a lot of times as parents, we think that if we promise or bribe, with dessert, we will change our children's food preferences to prefer things like vegetables. Yeah, but the opposite is true. We don't. They actually like vegetables less when we do that and like the sweets and the treats more.

00;12;12;26 - 00;12;16;23
Jill Castle
So I would say those are the two big ones I get.

00;12;16;23 - 00;12;36;29
Paul Sullivan
I get the, you know, the second one for sure. You you want your children to be intrinsically motivated. You want them to good grades in school because they like to learn. You don't want to do that because they get mint chocolate chip ice cream. But the other one, I could see that being and I probably been really been guilty of it, you know, if you or you know, you're feeding a child, you want them to have that protein source.

00;12;36;29 - 00;12;55;02
Paul Sullivan
And, you know, if you got a glass of milk there, you want them to drink that milk. But, you know, if meal after meal they eat, you know, just the rice, or they just eat the pasta or they, they don't eat at all. You know, I think if you admit it to you on your own that you struggle with your own children there, you only get them to eat healthy.

00;12;55;10 - 00;13;10;29
Paul Sullivan
What do you do? You know, because yeah, that's coming from I understand, like, hey, you know, you know, it's good ice cream for every a that that's that. But the whole point of like, hey, look, you got some chicken here, you got some rice here, you got some, you know, cucumbers and you got a glass of milk.

00;13;11;02 - 00;13;20;19
Paul Sullivan
Let's try to eat a little bit of all of that. Tell me how you sort of get your kids to eat a balanced meal without, pressuring them and creating problems down the road.

00;13;20;21 - 00;13;44;01
Jill Castle
Yeah, it's a great question. So structure, helps a lot in terms of the timing of meals and making sure that you have sort of routine times for your main meals, breakfast, lunch and dinner, and routine times for your snacks. One of the, mistakes that parents I see parents make is that snacks are not routine. They're kind of like whenever the child asks for them.

00;13;44;01 - 00;14;06;15
Jill Castle
Then we do a snack and that can interfere with the child's appetite when they come to the meal. The second thing is, make your healthy meal, preferably serve it family style, and we can talk about what that means if you want. But serve it family style, which means that the child can choose what goes on their plate, and they can choose how much goes on their plate.

00;14;06;23 - 00;14;10;27
Jill Castle
And don't make anything else like this is it. This is the meal, right?

00;14;10;29 - 00;14;19;02
Paul Sullivan
We do that. All right, all right. Now I'm feeling a little better. We do that and. Yeah, and then and they say mean let them scoop the amount of chicken they want. Let them scoop the amount. Yeah okay.

00;14;19;05 - 00;14;49;11
Jill Castle
Yeah. And you're all your job is really is to actually prepare the meal but also plan out that balanced meal like you've got all the main food groups there. And then, as your child is making their own plate, they're more likely to eat what they put on their plate because they're choosing from what you've put out there, what they want to eat, if they don't finish, if they don't choose everything, then, you know, the meal is over and you move on to the next one.

00;14;49;11 - 00;15;14;05
Jill Castle
There's sort of natural consequences that get built into whether your child, you know, eats or not. That's really their prerogative. And they're right. But what can happen is that you close it, you close the kitchen after that meal, and there is no more food until the next scheduled snack or meal. And for some families, that might not be until breakfast the next morning.

00;15;14;08 - 00;15;19;22
Jill Castle
And what happens is the child learns to eat what you've offered.

00;15;19;25 - 00;15;20;01
Paul Sullivan
Right?

00;15;20;07 - 00;15;53;17
Jill Castle
At meal time, they intrinsically learn that if they don't eat, if they don't have a good meal, they will feel hungry and uncomfortable, and they'll have to wait with that hunger and that uncomfortability, it won't happen very often. Most kids are able to sort of learn quickly that dinnertime is a time to make sure they eat. Now, when you're doing your meal time, though, you're not sort of making tons of food just in case that they might not eat, or you're making only their food that they like to eat, right?

00;15;53;19 - 00;16;12;07
Jill Castle
Because you fear that they won't eat, you're really trying to model and create exposure to new foods. And keep in mind that, you know, 1 or 2 foods on the plate should be something that your child is willing to eat, but that you're you're moving ahead with the whole I. My job is to expose this child to lots of different foods.

00;16;12;14 - 00;16;19;08
Jill Castle
I understand that not everything is going to be a hit, but this is what we're doing and kids fall in line.

00;16;19;11 - 00;16;40;18
Paul Sullivan
Okay, what about we have, you know, sort of you think of times in our lives that are not our normal routine. I mean, it's summertime now, so, you know, lots more treats and snacks, are going to get foisted on kids. You know, you go away on a vacation, it's, you know, fun. Your mom and dad are having a rum punch, you know?

00;16;40;20 - 00;16;45;02
Paul Sullivan
What are they? What is the kid again? How do you manage? You know, those moments.

00;16;45;05 - 00;17;11;09
Jill Castle
Yeah. So I've always believed that vacation was sort of like, we're off our routine and we're embracing it. And, you know, honestly, truth be told, when our family would go on vacation, it was the Pepperidge Farm white bread. It was the Coco Coco Crispy cereal. It was the stuff I did not put in the house. And my children really enjoyed the fact that vacation meant vacation food, so we just embraced it.

00;17;11;09 - 00;17;18;01
Jill Castle
Like. And then when we come home, we'd be like, we're back on our home food. You know, we're back in our routine of, I don't like Coco.

00;17;18;01 - 00;17;25;07
Paul Sullivan
Coco, you're a well-regarded nutritionist. How could you buy them? Did you, like, have to send your husband in to buy the Cocoa Puffs in case anybody saw you there?

00;17;25;07 - 00;17;33;27
Jill Castle
Oh, yeah. He he's the one that started that whole thing. Anyways. Yes. But you know what? For a week on vacation. Sure.

00;17;34;03 - 00;17;35;24
Paul Sullivan
Why not? Yeah.

00;17;35;26 - 00;18;06;08
Jill Castle
Noodles and cheese puffs and all the all the stuff. All the stuff. Paul. And so then when we would come home, we would be, you know, back onto our healthy meals. The other thing, I decided when I, I was a much younger mother, was that I wasn't going to really have tons of sweets and treats in the house regularly because I was watching my kids get them all the time on the soccer fields, at school parties, at Girl Scouts, at church.

00;18;06;08 - 00;18;31;27
Jill Castle
And I was like, this is nuts. So I just was like, I'm not going to worry about what they get outside of the home. I just know that my home inside my home is going to be more like a health haven. You know, it was going to be more nutritious. That worked for us. What I find with parents today is they are reacting to the scenarios that are placed in front of them, and they don't have a strategy.

00;18;31;27 - 00;18;52;03
Jill Castle
They haven't thought through, sort of, what am I going to do if my child has, cupcakes at, sports and then they're going to a birthday party and then we have a big family dinner at the end of the night, and I know there's going to be dessert. Like, parents need to anticipate those scenarios so they have a plan or a strategy to deal with it.

00;18;52;03 - 00;19;05;03
Paul Sullivan
So that's a common occurrence. What would a good plan be for something like that? So that you don't, you know, give your kid a complex or say, look, I know you had three parties today. You know, why can't you have three cupcakes? I don't I don't know the answer to that. So what do you say?

00;19;05;06 - 00;19;35;29
Jill Castle
So the day of you're just really letting your child embrace that fun, day, and then the subsequent days, you're dialing it in, you're like, we're not, you know, at home, we're having healthy, nutritious food. So you're you're sort of engaging, and then you're taking a break. You're engaging. You're taking a break. And it's that flexibility. And you know, that mindset of overall, I want my child to eat nutritious foods and have a good, healthy diet.

00;19;35;29 - 00;19;56;09
Jill Castle
But I also don't want to, create a scenario where my child is, feeling like they can't participate because that has its own emotional ramifications, too. And so it's that flexibility of in and out, in and out and taking the leadership role of this is how we do it. So if we're going to do all of this, this is what we're going to do for the next couple of days.

00;19;56;16 - 00;20;00;02
Jill Castle
And it's the clear communication of this is what we're doing.

00;20;00;04 - 00;20;10;18
Paul Sullivan
But, you know, when your your own kids are young, when it got a little out of hand, would you go into the crisper and pull out the the stock of kale and ways that and they knew like when mom pulls out the kale. No.

00;20;10;20 - 00;20;32;02
Jill Castle
No, no, I never had to do that. You know, in my house, we talked about food a lot in very non pressuring ways. It was just because of the work I do. It was, you know, a conversation that came up a lot, and that, hey you know, raising four kids, I knew I had a long term view.

00;20;32;08 - 00;20;50;08
Jill Castle
I knew that we weren't going to get it. All right every single day. But I knew that by the time they were 18 and went off to college, they knew needed to know how to to eat well, they needed to know the components of a of a nutritious meal. They needed to know how to cook for themselves. They they needed to understand their appetite.

00;20;50;08 - 00;21;03;11
Jill Castle
They needed to be able to care for themselves in that manner. And so when you think about that long term view, it releases and frees you a little bit from the day to day blips that that are going to happen to anyone.

00;21;03;13 - 00;21;25;23
Paul Sullivan
Right? Yeah. I like the way you phrase that. Like, you know, there's going to be a big party some Saturday. There going to be three parties and okay, you know, let it go. You're going to go on vacation for a week or two each year. You know, let it go. But, you know, here's a question. You know, my kids go to a summer camp and, you know, the menu is a whole bunch of stuff I wouldn't want to eat when it's 95 degrees out, but it's it's little.

00;21;25;23 - 00;21;54;15
Paul Sullivan
It's pasta, pizza, chicken fingers. Yeah. All heavy, heavy stuff. In a scenario like that, where, where that's what's being offered, you know, day after day, you know, week after week. Do you pack the lunch for the kids, you know, do you have a discussion, around it? How do you sort of manage something where you think, you know, at least one meal a day is going to be, you know, fairly, unhealthy and lacking in nutrition?

00;21;54;15 - 00;22;14;29
Jill Castle
Yeah. Sitting down with your children, if they're old enough and talking about what do you notice about this menu? And that's a great phrase to use when you're feeding kids, even if you're starting, with new foods on the table. What do you notice about x, y, z? What do you notice about broccoli? What do you notice about this asparagus?

00;22;14;29 - 00;22;23;07
Jill Castle
What do you know about this? What do you notice about this menu for camp? What do you see here. And your child might say like, oh my God, it's all my favorite food.

00;22;23;09 - 00;22;26;10
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. That's right.

00;22;26;12 - 00;22;50;12
Jill Castle
I know exactly. But have a conversation. And just what do you notice missing? You know, and your child might say, there's no fruit here. I don't see any vegetables. Well, what can we do about that? Well, do you have any suggestions? Having these conversations with your children, in this way where you're asking questions. Really gets the wheels turning in their brains and helps them be part of the solution.

00;22;50;19 - 00;23;07;14
Jill Castle
So ask them, what would you do? What what what do you think we should do? Your child might come up with the answer. They might say, I think I should bring a bag of carrots every day. I love carrots, I think I should bring them, or they might say, well, when I get home, I need to just make sure I have a healthy snack.

00;23;07;14 - 00;23;30;15
Jill Castle
Well, what would that be? Maybe some berries and some yogurt, or maybe some, you know, vegetables and cheese. So when your child's in a situation where the food isn't as healthy, try to partner with them and create a solution, because if they're part of the solution, they're going to be more willing to to participate and carry that solution through.

00;23;30;17 - 00;23;52;18
Paul Sullivan
You know, I know throughout this conversation, I always think of, you know, food is is fuel to hopefully it good all this. But I know you've done some some research and you're real expert on how food should be, you know, paired or thought about for children with with ADHD. Maybe talk a little bit about that. How food takes on a different meaning or use with a child who is ADHD.

00;23;52;21 - 00;24;20;12
Jill Castle
Right. So we know that with ADHD it's a brain based learning and behavioral challenge. For some children, executive functioning, functioning skills is also a challenge. And, we know that the brain is its operation. The fuel for its operation is food and nutrients. And so with children who have ADHD, there's a couple of challenges that they might be facing.

00;24;20;13 - 00;24;43;24
Jill Castle
Number one is being on medications that, you know, dampen their appetite and make them not hungry. And so for parents, it can be a real challenge to get the nutrition, that nutritious diet on board for them. And so you're really sort of working around their non hungry period and maximizing all the meals that happen around that period of time.

00;24;43;27 - 00;25;19;22
Jill Castle
From a, from a nutrient standpoint, protein is very important. Fat is important, particularly plant fats that have, omega three fatty acids, which really do help the brain sort of process. Carbohydrates, all the nutrients are important in that the brain functions optimally when it's getting sort of a regular injection of nutrients. And that's that goes back to that structure with meals and snacks every 3 to 4 hours, there's a meal or a snack, and it's sort of very routine.

00;25;19;24 - 00;25;48;28
Jill Castle
That's not only to just fill the belly with food and nutrients, it's to also make sure that the brain is getting sort of that regular injection of fuel. As that child is moving throughout the day. So, you know, regular rhythm around meals and snacks, making sure foods, for example, I always advise that children have a protein source, in each meal and snack throughout the day.

00;25;48;28 - 00;26;11;07
Jill Castle
It doesn't have to be a ton of protein, but it needs to be a little bit of protein there just because it helps them be more attentive and pay attention. So yeah, I mean, feeding children with ADHD can be challenging, particularly if their medications are, impacting their appetite. But there are workarounds.

00;26;11;10 - 00;26;22;12
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. Joe, this has been great. Thank you. For being my guest in the company dad's podcast. I always like to give the guests the last word. Anything? Anything. I didn't ask that. You want to make sure the listeners here.

00;26;22;14 - 00;26;43;08
Jill Castle
Well, I just want to say that, because this is the company of dads. I just want to say that there is, a lot of research coming out that is now focused on fathers in the realm of food and feeding. And so it's a really interesting time for research in childhood nutrition, because we are starting to look at fathers.

00;26;43;08 - 00;26;47;29
Jill Castle
And are they different when they feed their children than mothers. And it's, it's it's interesting.

00;26;47;29 - 00;26;52;22
Paul Sullivan
So you can't you can't leave us hanging. What what's the answer? What's the preliminary research show?

00;26;52;25 - 00;27;31;23
Jill Castle
Right. Well, some of the newer research, shows that fathers tend to be a little bit more controlling with feeding than mothers do. And so what that basically means is that, you know, if you haven't thought if you're a dad and you're a you're a primary care taker and you haven't learned about feeding your child in terms of that interaction we talked about before this is a really good time to start learning about that, because, if it affects how your child views themselves as an eater, but also it it affects their your child's relationship with food.

00;27;31;24 - 00;27;49;13
Jill Castle
Do they like to come to the table? Do they feel good about eating? Do they feel good about food? Is it something they enjoy and they embrace? Or is it drudgery? Is it filled with criticism? Is it something that is a negative in their life? And we don't want to create that for a child, whether we're a father or mother.

00;27;49;15 - 00;28;11;28
Jill Castle
But what is interesting is that the research, because I think of the pandemic and more dads at home, the research is starting to look at, you know, when mothers feed children, we know that there are certain, you know, impacts in that area. But now we're seeing that fathers have a different a slightly different impact. And it's not necessarily a bad thing.

00;28;12;03 - 00;28;22;06
Jill Castle
Yeah. It's just that fathers are different and they have a different impact on their children. And, it's very interesting. I think we'll see that in other realms of health and behavior as well.

00;28;22;08 - 00;28;37;22
Paul Sullivan
Well, I have to ask you because you but, you know, whenever I take my kids out for ice cream, they, they, they kind of they know what's coming next. And that's the dad tax where I swoop in with my spoon and take. Is that okay? Is that all right when I think that sounds like dad tax. Yeah, I.

00;28;37;22 - 00;28;42;12
Jill Castle
Think that sounds like a really fun memory that you're creating with your kids.

00;28;42;15 - 00;28;47;22
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. Jill Castle, founder of The Nourished Child. Thank you again for being my guest. Everyone.

00;28;47;23 - 00;28;50;05
Jill Castle
You're so welcome. Thanks for having me.