EP39: 7 Lessons You Need From An O.G. Lead Dad

Interview with Dan Kadlec / Early Remote Worker and 1990s Lead Dad

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

Dan Kadlec was a Lead Dad when silence about his role was the way to maintain his ability to work remotely and parent his children as his wife’s career became more demanding. That was the 1990s when working from home was a euphemism for slacking off. But after discussions with his wife, they realized his job as a magazine columnist was more portable, so he raised his hand to be the Lead Dad for their three school-aged children. “At some point that may have hurt my career, but it also opened up some doors that I wanted to pursue,” he said. As for being the go-to parent for the kids, it was worth every trade-off, particularly with his teenage daughter: “I heard stuff I’d never have heard if I wasn’t driving them. They just thought I was the chauffeur and talked like I wasn’t there.” Listen to Dan’s 7 tips for Lead Dads adjusting to a role that is rewarding if still not always understood and accepted.

---

Get our free newsletter covering all things fatherhood delivered straight to your inbox: https://thecompanyofdads.com/thedad/

Transcript

00;00;05;08 - 00;00;25;06
Paul Sullivan
I'm Paul Sullivan, your host on the Company of Dads podcast, where we explore the sweet, sublime, strange and silly aspects of being a dad in a world where men were the go to, parents often feel they have to hide or at least not talk about their roles. One thing I know from personal experience is being a dad is not a traditional role for men.

00;00;25;08 - 00;00;43;02
Paul Sullivan
Whether you work full time, part time, put about all your time to your family. Parenting is so often left to mothers or paid caregivers. But here at the Company of Dads, our goal is to shake all that off and create a community for fathers who are the dads, and to welcome other dads who want to learn more from them.

00;00;43;04 - 00;01;11;15
Paul Sullivan
Today my guest is Dan Kadlec, personal finance journalist and 1990s lead dad. He's going to share seven lessons you need seven lessons from an OG lead dad to today's lead dad. Slightly different format, but let's jump right into it with the questions. Question one what was it like when you and your wife were commuting together and trying to balance working in the city and parenting in the suburbs?

00;01;11;18 - 00;01;31;04
Dan Kadlec
Well, I mean, so we started out with, with, with her being at home, for the first, you know, number of years I didn't I don't know how many years know, but the first little while she was at home with the kids, and I was commuting every day by myself, and that went on for a few years.

00;01;31;04 - 00;01;56;13
Dan Kadlec
And then then she got the bug to go back to work, and ended up getting these jobs, you know, getting some good jobs in the city. And that was a period of time when we commuted together. And, and both of us were working on our careers, what was it like? I mean, we had nannies, we we we we went through a number of nannies.

00;01;56;13 - 00;02;15;18
Dan Kadlec
We had some really good ones, and we had 1 or 2, that we had to get rid of pretty fast. And so that was a kind of a gut wrenching moment, period when you're leaving your very young children with, you know, obviously they had been vetted, but at the end of the day, they were strangers when we first met them.

00;02;15;18 - 00;02;36;18
Dan Kadlec
And, but that's what we did, and we were comfortable with it, we, you know, when I say we had some, some that we didn't like so much that it wasn't like a dangerous situation, and we just didn't think they were, you know, attending to everything they should have been attending to, but that went on for quite a while.

00;02;36;18 - 00;02;56;25
Dan Kadlec
And, and, you know, I'll be honest, I, we, we didn't see everything that happened. We, you know, you don't you know, your kids don't report everything back to you. But we've recently our oldest daughter, we've gotten into a conversation, and she got really mad at us about something, and I don't remember what it was, and she said.

00;02;56;27 - 00;03;31;23
Dan Kadlec
She said, yeah, well, you know, I don't think I'm going to have kids because, because because what did she say? Because. Because what's the point of having a child when they're just going to, like, hate you for the first 15 years of their life? Which is, of course, a bit of a hyperbole. But she said, yeah, you know, we were like, raised by nannies and, and I said, you were not, you know, and we, you know, but she was just being a brat and but she, she, she knew that was kind of a spot that she could get us on, you know.

00;03;31;25 - 00;03;40;26
Paul Sullivan
Question two how and when did you and your wife decide to flip the parent roles and for you to become the lead that.

00;03;40;28 - 00;04;10;19
Dan Kadlec
I would say that came about. I mean, the kids were starting to become pre-teens at that point. They were, I, you know, ten, 11, 12 in that in that range, you know, I was, approaching 50, in age. And, you know, I had a great job and, and, and I, I talked with the people I worked for, and, you know, my job was portable.

00;04;10;19 - 00;04;40;06
Dan Kadlec
I mean, they, they they thought it would be fine if I worked from home. Most of the time, we had an arrangement, so it was it was great. But it came about, because Kim's career was becoming more and more demanding. The kids were entering those teen years and needing more and more supervision. And then we finally said, you know, look, the nannies were great when they were babies, but they need, like, real adult attention now, you know, big kids, big problems.

00;04;40;06 - 00;05;00;16
Dan Kadlec
Right? And, so I, you know, we looked we had a long conversation and, and we just kind of agreed that, you know, my career was the most gave us the most flexibility. We need one of us to be at home. That was the decision we made. One of us needed to be at home. So we looked at that and what that meant then.

00;05;00;16 - 00;05;23;17
Dan Kadlec
And then I was, you know, I was, you know, I raised my hand, I, I, I could do it. I had my career was transportable that way. I think at some point that may have hurt my career, in the longer term. Not in a serious way, but but it I think it did. But it was also it also opened up some doors that I wanted to pursue.

00;05;23;17 - 00;05;51;27
Dan Kadlec
And with her career going well, you know, there wasn't as much financial pressure on me to pursue some of these other things. I wrote a couple books, you know, I started trying out some different kind of writing and all that sort of thing, and it was really rewarding. But at the same time, I became the person at home with the kids, and, and, you know, when I talk about teenage problems, you know, girls and boys and, you know, you know, and, you know, my son is dyslexic.

00;05;51;27 - 00;06;02;24
Dan Kadlec
Dyslexic. And so he needed some we needed to really work on his education and what the right school for him. And, and I was there. I was the one doing that kind of work.

00;06;02;26 - 00;06;11;15
Paul Sullivan
Question three you raised your kids in a traditional town in the late 1990s. What are the challenges of being a dad in a town like that?

00;06;11;18 - 00;06;33;28
Dan Kadlec
The challenge was more in my own head. And was I doing was I sacrificing something in my career? The challenge of dealing with the kids, I, I have embraced that I, that I didn't find that challenging at all. I enjoyed it. I it was something I wanted to do, and frankly, I thought I was pretty good at it, so I didn't have, like, a coffee klatch.

00;06;33;28 - 00;06;52;14
Dan Kadlec
I didn't play tennis, you know, I didn't. I wasn't like a Chappaqua mother. You know, I when I wasn't watching the kids, I was working, and my job, really, as a parent was as much as anything to sort of just like get them from place to place. And I had plenty of time to do the writing I wanted to do.

00;06;52;16 - 00;07;13;07
Dan Kadlec
So I, I guess I, I found it very rewarding in many ways. But I didn't really see it as that much of a challenge. I mean, it was just, I, I it's something that came kind of natural to me, and I, and I really enjoyed experiencing the kids in this way. You know, I joke, I joke once with my wife.

00;07;13;07 - 00;07;33;13
Dan Kadlec
I said, you know, I'm shuttling, you know, these 13 year old, my daughter, you know, all of our friends, we had a big suburban and we'd get like seven of her friends. They're all 12, 13 years old. I'm taking them to whatever the dance or whatever I was doing. And I just marveled that, I mean, they I was like a bus driver.

00;07;33;13 - 00;08;04;22
Dan Kadlec
They they were back there talking and talking and talking and, like, I wasn't even there. Like, I'm. I'm the dad, I'm the parent, and I'm here and stuff. I'm here and stuff that I would never hear if I wasn't, like, driving them to some party somewhere. They're just back there talking, like. Like I'm just the chauffeur, and, I just got great information, and I, I, you know, I can't give you specifics on that because I don't remember them, but I just remember thinking, wow, I would never hear this if I weren't here doing this.

00;08;04;24 - 00;08;12;12
Paul Sullivan
Question for you. You were doing this when work from home was, synonymous with slacking off. How did you stay productive?

00;08;12;14 - 00;08;34;17
Dan Kadlec
You know, there's always a bit of an emphasis on face time at the office. And you do you you know, you miss certain things. You missed the meetings. You missed the watercooler talk. You missed the the conversations that lead to stories that lead to, you know, the top editors thinking you're the guy for the job. And and, you know, I, I did sense that, I did sense that.

00;08;34;17 - 00;09;15;05
Dan Kadlec
But I also almost didn't care because I felt myself transitioning, to a different sort of, career going forward. That transition probably didn't happen in the way I envisioned it. And so there came a time when I thought, you know, I had second thoughts. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Years after I started doing it, I thought, I wonder what my career would have been like if I, if I just stayed there in the office and and done those things, and got the face time and all that, you know, but I don't think too hard about that because, you know, that's also a period of time that coincided with the basic implosion of

00;09;15;05 - 00;09;40;10
Dan Kadlec
journalism as we know it. And, you know, at the time, you know, they were I mean, every six months they were offering packages and telling, you know, downsizing and, who knows who knows if I would have survived that, you know? So, I, I was kind of happy to actually, I actually took a package from them, and, and then I, as I mentioned before, I think I then then they hired me back on a contract basis.

00;09;40;10 - 00;09;58;07
Dan Kadlec
And so I didn't have the benefits, but I didn't need them because my wife had those, you know, health benefits and all that. And so I forgot what I was going with that. But, I there were some second thoughts, there were some second thoughts. But at the end of the day, I, I don't regret it.

00;09;58;09 - 00;10;07;15
Paul Sullivan
Question five what will it take to change this link between masculinity and money so that both parents can fulfill their potential?

00;10;07;17 - 00;10;29;07
Dan Kadlec
Yeah. I mean, I think I think it's happening, you know, right before us, I mean, I see it with the partners that my kids have chosen and, you know, the, the, the husbands are way more involved than most of, like my friends ever were at that age. So I think it is already happening with the younger group.

00;10;29;09 - 00;10;56;16
Dan Kadlec
I frankly don't understand the reluctance, on the part of some men, you know, but but then, you know, culturally, I know that that exists also, you know, in, in, in various areas where the man is still expected to work and the, the woman, you know, the wife is expected to raise the kids that women are having greater opportunity now, I think I think there's still pay disparity, but that gap is closing.

00;10;56;18 - 00;11;15;17
Dan Kadlec
I think I believe women are way more valued in the workplace than they were 20 or 30 years ago. And are getting better jobs and bigger jobs. And quite frankly, they're, they're, they're better at some of these jobs than men are. And, and at the end of the day, if you're running a company, you want the right person for the job.

00;11;15;17 - 00;11;39;02
Dan Kadlec
And so I think natural forces are making it happen, I really do. And for the men who are reluctant to take that road, I mean, they're going to find themselves being crowded out. I think they're they're just they're not going to have, they're going to have fewer women prospects if they if they hold, if they hold that to that line of thinking.

00;11;39;05 - 00;11;44;22
Paul Sullivan
Question six what advice would you give to someone starting out as a lead that.

00;11;44;25 - 00;12;09;28
Dan Kadlec
I mean, I would say, you know, embrace it with everything you've got and try to try to find your, your sort of younger self in there somewhere. I mean, you know, when I started putting afterschool snacks out, I discovered Nutella. I, you know, I learned I learned every word to SpongeBob SquarePants. And, you know, I found I found out that when I hid the cookies, you know, the kids would find them.

00;12;10;00 - 00;12;29;24
Dan Kadlec
They're really people. And they they they they find everything in the house, and and it's kind of fun. It becomes a game. It's like, well, where can I hide the cookies now? What? They're not so they don't find them. I would just say embrace it and, look for the fun aspects of it because it's it's really fun if you let it be.

00;12;29;25 - 00;12;53;20
Dan Kadlec
I mean, it's always going to be work, but look for the the quirks in your kids personalities and try to create some memories. Do something funny. Do it, you know, do things that their mom wouldn't do with them. You know, even if that's just going outside and playing catch more often or something. Whatever it means. But, for me, it's all about just embracing it.

00;12;53;22 - 00;12;59;10
Paul Sullivan
Question seven. What is you being a dad meant for your wife's career?

00;12;59;12 - 00;13;25;15
Dan Kadlec
Yeah, well, I it's meant. I mean, if I don't want to oversell it, but it's meant to everything. I mean, she's she, today, you know, she's got a very demanding job. I'm semi-retired. And, we've been sort of headed down that path for a number of years. And, you know, frankly, she wouldn't have been able to devote the energy to her job if I hadn't been willing to handle the domestic stuff.

00;13;25;15 - 00;13;42;05
Dan Kadlec
Our a good chunk of it. And by the way, she does her share. I mean, even with her job, she, you know, it's like, yeah, she has like, left me with an apron. I mean, it's like, you know, we still share all this stuff, but the fact that but that that I'm doing as much as I'm doing has absolutely helped her.

00;13;42;08 - 00;14;03;08
Dan Kadlec
And she, you know, she's told me that and and she wasn't kidding. So. And look at the payoff. I mean, I mean, just in in many ways, I've gotten the payoff for being this person. And one of them is that her career is just like, you know, she's crushing it, and it's like, it's good for us, you know?

00;14;03;10 - 00;14;07;29
Paul Sullivan
Dan Cadillac, thank you for being my guest on the Company of Dad's podcast.