EP40: How Far Would You Go To Be Your Child’s Dad? - Part 1

Interview with Marvin Avilez who Spent 7 Years Securing Fatherhood Rights

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

Marvin Avilez has one of the most captivating stories about becoming a Lead Dad I’ve ever heard. A former counter-intel Marine turned technologist, Marvin became a father in 2015 in New York. His daughter's mother, who lived in London at that point, wanted to control all aspects of his involvement in his daughter's life. He refused to be erased, and so began a seven-year odyssey traveling between New York and London to secure his rights as a father. In this first episode, Marvin talks about educating himself, crafting a plan and making strides – until he was struck with Covid-19 in the earliest days of the pandemic. It ends with Marvin selling everything he had and emigrating to London as soon as flying restrictions were lifted in 2020. He was at least near his daughter but his fight was nowhere close to being over. Listen now.

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Transcript

00;00;05;13 - 00;00;24;06
Paul Sullivan
I'm Paul Sullivan, your host on the Company of Dead podcast, where we explore the sweet, sublime, strange and silly aspects of being a dad in a world where men were the go to, parents often feel they have to hide, or at least not talk about the rules. One thing I know from personal experience of being a dad, not a traditional role for men.

00;00;24;07 - 00;00;40;23
Paul Sullivan
Whether you work full time, part time, or devote all your time to your family. Parenting is so often left to mothers or paid caregivers. But here at the Company of Dads, our goal is to shake all that off and create the community for fathers. Who are they dads, and to welcome other dads who want to learn from them.

00;00;40;25 - 00;01;09;11
Paul Sullivan
Today my guest is Marvin Avilez, who has one of the most captivating stories about becoming a dad. I ever heard Marvin I met at a poker table in New York City, probably 20 years ago, when neither of us had kids, and playing poker until midnight on a weekday seemed like a perfectly good use of our time. We then lost touch for well over a decade, until I started seeing him posting photos of him and his daughter on Facebook.

00;01;09;13 - 00;01;39;13
Paul Sullivan
After watching for a while, I searched for what was going on, but it was like starting a mystery novel on page 200 I was following, but it didn't all add up. So I reached out to Marvin this summer and we started to talk. Marvin is a former Counter Intel marine turned technologist who now lives in London and when we had that first call, what was supposed to last about 15 minutes stretched for well over an hour, and I knew I wanted Marvin to tell his story on this podcast.

00;01;39;16 - 00;01;44;13
Paul Sullivan
Marvin, thanks for being here and welcome to the Company Dads podcast.

00;01;44;16 - 00;01;47;27
Marvin Avilez 
Paul, thanks for inviting me. It's good to be here.

00;01;47;29 - 00;02;03;03
Paul Sullivan
Your story starts in 2010, least for the purposes of this podcast. It starts in 2010, when you met the woman who would become your daughter's mother. At some point, you guys decided to have a child. What happened?

00;02;03;05 - 00;02;17;11
Marvin Avilez 
Yeah. And, you know, we, we got pregnant and, the next thing you know, things started to fall apart during the pregnancy.

00;02;17;13 - 00;02;20;10
Paul Sullivan
And by that, you mean you mean relationship wise?

00;02;20;11 - 00;02;49;05
Marvin Avilez 
Yes. Yes, yes. And there was, a lot of difference in opinion as to where and how and when this child would be raised. And she was living in England. I, as you know, was living in New York, in Manhattan. And I found myself in a really uncomfortable, strange, very surreal, very strange situation.

00;02;49;07 - 00;03;12;09
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. You can't just hop in the car and drive there. It's a bit of a bit of a geographical. Conundrum. But your daughter, was born in in December, 2015. That's how you became a dad. What was that process like? And, you know, what were those first, you know, couple of months as as a dad.

00;03;12;12 - 00;03;14;12
Paul Sullivan
You know, like, for for you and her.

00;03;14;14 - 00;03;39;25
Marvin Avilez 
Yeah. Well, just to kind of, add a little color to it before. Before we got there that we prior to, the birth, the relationship had fallen completely apart, and I was extremely, I don't know if it was strange. I was extremely fearful, but I think it was more that I was extremely, facing the unknown.

00;03;39;28 - 00;03;44;05
Marvin Avilez 
Like, I didn't understand what was going on. I couldn't comprehend the.

00;03;44;05 - 00;03;52;26
Paul Sullivan
What were you. But, I mean, fatherhood is always at 70. No, but what were you fearful about? You fear about? Is that what the end of the relationship meant? Or for the father? Tell me. Tell me more about that. Like.

00;03;52;26 - 00;04;19;02
Marvin Avilez 
Like it's interesting, right? You think of events. And so, you know, she didn't want to see me. And there was some communication, like, look, you're not going to be part of this child's life. And I. And I was like, whoa, wait a minute. Yeah. What is going on here? And so you would see, I started thinking about the actual like, tactical aspect of what was going on.

00;04;19;05 - 00;04;38;09
Marvin Avilez 
And okay, well, what is what is our child going to be born in? And, what's the name? And, and so I thought at that level and I was getting I started getting advice. I started coming to England every month as much as possible, and I started to get advice from another organization. Called Snap families. Need fathers.

00;04;38;11 - 00;05;03;02
Marvin Avilez 
And so it was a peer group program. But what was what I was realizing was I just I just couldn't comprehend this idea that I didn't exist. And moreover, there was somebody trying to prevent me from being involved in my child's my potential child's life. That that was the, you know, the kind of part where it's really difficult to understand.

00;05;03;04 - 00;05;09;08
Paul Sullivan
But this is you were going back and forth from New York to the UK while she was still pregnant. Is that.

00;05;09;08 - 00;05;10;06
Marvin Avilez 
Correct? That's right.

00;05;10;06 - 00;05;11;07
Paul Sullivan
Or your daughter's.

00;05;11;12 - 00;05;45;27
Marvin Avilez 
That's right. And and and that's where I started to, I think from my very fortunately, you know, I started I started mission planning. I was like, okay, this is what do you do? You you start to develop a course of action, you start to develop various scenarios. And, and I just went into that mode. What, you know, when I was what I did in the, in the Marine Corps, you know, foreign country navigating the proper, culture and the legalities and just really doing all of that work.

00;05;46;00 - 00;06;11;16
Marvin Avilez 
And then I think what it came down to was it was this commitment that this wasn't going to be easy, that there was there is an opposing force. And I didn't have any answers, but I was going to continue moving forward towards this direction and figuring it out as it occurred. You know, just trying to get to the corner and making the next decision as to should I go left or right.

00;06;11;19 - 00;06;12;22
Marvin Avilez 
Wow.

00;06;12;25 - 00;06;17;06
Paul Sullivan
And I mean, for, for this, I mean, you deployed in Iraq, correct?

00;06;17;09 - 00;06;32;21
Marvin Avilez 
Yeah. I, I did a conventional war, which was the invasion into Baghdad. And then the and the work up the few months prior to that. And then I did some operations throughout the globe in counterintelligence prior to that.

00;06;32;23 - 00;06;56;13
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. I mean, so this is this is your background and but again. You know, I know from, you know, talking to people in the armed services about my first book, I end up lecturing up at Upper West Point, you know, planning is everything. But plans fail. But here you're going into something where there is, that means so much emotion.

00;06;56;13 - 00;07;21;00
Paul Sullivan
Not that there's emotion and war, but there's so much emotion. You're about to become a father. You feel like you're being, shut out even before your your daughter is born. You're in two different countries, separated by a, you know, whatever, six, seven hour flight and an ocean. What happened when your daughter was, was born in December 2015?

00;07;21;00 - 00;07;27;22
Paul Sullivan
Did your did the plan shifted contact shift? Did you when did you first get to to see her?

00;07;27;24 - 00;07;50;08
Marvin Avilez 
Yeah. It was actually quite interesting because I didn't have visibility in a way that you would think that a father or a partner or, you know, an expecting person would. And so I felt extremely uncomfortable because I didn't want to keep asking, okay, what's going on? Especially to someone who had we had already entered the legal process.

00;07;50;11 - 00;08;14;16
Marvin Avilez 
There had already been lawyers involved. And it was clear at that point, and I think that that's what was sobering for me was that it was clear that I was not wanted, in the sense of a, you know, fundamentally, you're not the father of this child type of thing. And, and it was very clear, you know, messaging.

00;08;14;16 - 00;08;37;26
Marvin Avilez 
And I think that the, the situation when I was told that, our, you know, daughter had arrived, that was very exciting. I, you know, there's a there's a regardless of what the situation is, it was very celebratory in, in in my spirit. And, you know, I was also there was other aspects of it that were very hard.

00;08;37;28 - 00;08;57;20
Marvin Avilez 
It was embarrassing. You know, I had to tell my family. Right, right. And that's that's embarrassing. It's like, look, you know, I'm, I'm in this situation where, my, my child has come to the, to the, to the, to the planet, and, and her mother doesn't want me to be part of, that this life or the or presence.

00;08;57;20 - 00;09;30;01
Marvin Avilez 
So, so so to speak. So, there I started we started going, there was positions in the legal in the legal framework and, there was very little contact, very limited contact in I think that part of that limited contact was not necessarily, on the mother's side. It was also because the fact that, yes, I was going back and forth and so I couldn't be here full time, you know, so it's a logistical aspect.

00;09;30;06 - 00;09;35;12
Marvin Avilez 
And the fact that I didn't live in England, was part of the challenge at that point.

00;09;35;14 - 00;09;41;02
Paul Sullivan
How? I mean, when when did you first hold it? When did you first meet her? You know.

00;09;41;05 - 00;09;54;28
Marvin Avilez 
I think it was February of 2016, if I remember correctly. Maybe so almost late, late January, maybe late January, but I think it was maybe late January or February. Yeah. Sorry.

00;09;55;06 - 00;09;58;00
Paul Sullivan
Kind of 2 to 3 months after she was born.

00;09;58;02 - 00;09;58;27
Marvin Avilez 
Yes.

00;09;58;29 - 00;10;08;03
Paul Sullivan
What was that like? That moment?

00;10;08;05 - 00;10;46;02
Marvin Avilez 
You know, I don't really remember. I think I was more focused on the situation. And mom versus trying to process the meeting her, and I don't remember specifically that memory. I remember a few other ones where it was a little bit later, maybe the second or the third meeting. Where where there was more animation was, you know, there was much more kind of like, there was a gift exchange.

00;10;46;03 - 00;10;52;23
Marvin Avilez 
Exchange? Well, I mean, I brought some gifts and there was some.

00;10;52;26 - 00;11;11;12
Marvin Avilez 
Strange and surreal, kind of like I remember looking at my daughter and seeing the color of her skin. You know, it was much more like mine. And, and again, the other part was, is, is actually, you know, we all do this, right? Like, oh, you look like so-and-so, uncle, uncle, this. And you have a someone's says, no, that you have.

00;11;11;14 - 00;11;14;18
Marvin Avilez 
So I think that again, you you get into that.

00;11;14;21 - 00;11;18;13
Paul Sullivan
And you got an on Cynthia's toes.

00;11;18;15 - 00;11;45;04
Marvin Avilez 
What exactly it was exactly, exactly. So so I do I do remember that, and again, through getting advice, I think it was remain as calm as possible. You know what? It's no longer about my opinion or my view or the mother's opinion. The mother's view. And this is this is interesting. This is where I started to really change.

00;11;45;06 - 00;11;48;17
Paul Sullivan
Change in what sense?

00;11;48;20 - 00;12;21;29
Marvin Avilez 
I had to put aside my anger. And I had to. We had to reestablish the relationship with myself about what is valuable to me. Like, what is my value set? And I'm really glad that, I have an amazing godfather who was a very big part of my life because I didn't have a father growing up, but my godfather, who was the main care, you know, the main man in my life.

00;12;22;02 - 00;12;37;26
Marvin Avilez 
Yeah. Was, in fact, he was the first person I told. I remember calling him for me when actually, when I met. Now, this is getting started. Now, I remember when the first time I met my daughter, I called my godfather. As soon as that was over, and I said to him, hey, this is what's going on.

00;12;37;26 - 00;13;03;23
Marvin Avilez 
And I remember feeling strange but proud, right? Like, hey, yeah, you're the first person I'm going to call. And I feel I felt sanctuary in love in that action of calling him as a strength. Right. Like I was calling him to tell him about my situation, which is very complicated and complex. Yes. And you know, of course, him being the wise man that he is, he was the one who was celebratory about it.

00;13;03;23 - 00;13;31;28
Marvin Avilez 
And he didn't didn't nobody cared. Nobody. And here's the other part, right? Nobody cares. Nobody cares about the bad part. They're like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Congratulations. Exactly. Yeah. And that is where that's And to this day to to this day, I can proudly say that that is the mindset shift that has, I think, helped me through the past almost, you know, the past seven years.

00;13;32;00 - 00;13;48;25
Paul Sullivan
I got I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'm listening. So I'm thinking, I wonder if that was a moment to talk in your godfather. That was a moment that sort of normalized what was a difficult, you know, fraught situation. You're like, okay, yeah. Of all the other stuff that's going on, I am a dad.

00;13;48;27 - 00;13;53;19
Paul Sullivan
I have a daughter. This is, you know, something to be celebrated.

00;13;53;21 - 00;14;27;02
Marvin Avilez 
Yeah, well, well, this is this is the other interesting part. I so, so, I think that this gets very emotional, I remember growing up and not knowing the word in the sense dad, like dad wasn't part of my vocabulary. Like, of course I knew the word right. Yeah, but but the. But when you grow up not having a dad and not experiencing that on a regular basis, daily, weekly, whatever, you know?

00;14;27;04 - 00;14;52;02
Marvin Avilez 
Yeah, there was a strange void that was being filled but also existed. I'm like, wait a minute, I'm a dad. Wait, wait, what's my what's my job? How do I do it? Wait, wait. I'm the one who's responsible and and and even to this day, I still kind of feel this, this strange. And so I talk to a lot of other dads, and, you know, I'm like, hey, you know, how do you feel and what do you think?

00;14;52;02 - 00;15;04;16
Marvin Avilez 
And so it's fascinating, to kind of unpack, unpack what you start to experience for the first time as a, as a first dad, especially when you didn't have a dad.

00;15;04;16 - 00;15;24;10
Paul Sullivan
And so it's fun for you because, you know, for other people, if we had a good dad, we have a model. If we have a bad deb, we had a model, but you had a void, so there wasn't a dad. And so you're making it up as you go along and, you know, nobody gets trained. You got trained to be a continental.

00;15;24;17 - 00;15;26;09
Marvin Avilez 
Trained, right?

00;15;26;12 - 00;15;41;09
Paul Sullivan
You don't get trained to be a dad. And so you need to sort of cobbled together through either your own memories of your childhood, good or bad, or as you did, you know, other friends who are, you know, they're experts because they're, you know, three years ahead of you on the fatherhood. You know.

00;15;41;09 - 00;16;04;21
Marvin Avilez 
They they are and so and and what happened this is and this is and this is the beauty about it. Again, I think I had a choice. I could stay on the angry side or I could stay on the celebratory side. Right. And, and and again, I kind of I always go back to my godfather and I always think about because I remember calling him so many times say, oh, now you know, both.

00;16;04;24 - 00;16;17;13
Marvin Avilez 
How did you do that for me? And then it made me appreciate much more the extra mile that my godfather went for me and my brother.

00;16;17;15 - 00;16;18;14
Paul Sullivan
Right.

00;16;18;16 - 00;16;45;29
Marvin Avilez 
Right. And I was like, wow. And I kept I remember calling my God father, my godmother and saying, why did you do this? Like like why did you why and how and I, I've always said, I love you, but I cannot believe what this is and I can't thank you. I will never be able to thank you enough, because I realize now that you prepared me for what is happening right now.

00;16;46;02 - 00;16;53;29
Marvin Avilez 
Wow. Wow. That's been that was the realization that was the epiphany. And amazing.

00;16;54;01 - 00;17;12;04
Paul Sullivan
I mean when did you, you know those first couple of years. What was it like. You know, seeing your, your daughter, were you able to sort of establish, a regular cadence of, of, of visiting with her being with her being, you know, her dad in, in person.

00;17;12;06 - 00;17;38;14
Marvin Avilez 
Right? Yeah. The first couple of years were very challenging. Her mother and I couldn't agree. And. Because of that, lack of agreement, you know, obviously, my daughter lived with her mother, and so I was the one trying to make change. Which is different when you have something and you don't want it to change.

00;17;38;16 - 00;17;39;15
Paul Sullivan
Right.

00;17;39;18 - 00;17;57;23
Marvin Avilez 
And, and so how do you balance that with not getting angry, not getting frustrated. Trying to communicate, trying to you know, again how do I bring solutions to the table when the real situations like what is going on.

00;17;57;25 - 00;17;58;22
Paul Sullivan
Right.

00;17;58;24 - 00;18;21;16
Marvin Avilez 
Right. But maintaining a discipline, a maturity, and in fact, some ways trying to be loving but yet not overstepping your, you know, your, your grounds or or what this is that that's what the first to that's what the first three years were about.

00;18;21;18 - 00;18;46;06
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. But then, you know, as I understand it, you're sort of making progress, you know, in 2019 and heading into 2020. But then, a global pandemic happens, Covid 19 happens. What did what does that do to your ability to see your daughter? What did that do to, you know, plans that you had in place or any agreements you're working on?

00;18;46;08 - 00;19;13;17
Marvin Avilez 
Right. For me, Yeah. At that point, I had pretty much decided that I was going to, we were we weren't seeing eye to eye. We couldn't come to an agreement. And I was going to, relocate to the UK. That was that was the the, at least my intention and what I had verbally communicated.

00;19;13;20 - 00;19;42;05
Marvin Avilez 
And I remember leaving England, I would say, you know, maybe, I don't know, March 5th or March 6th of 2020. And then arriving in Manhattan. Being there for a few days and being like, what's what's going on here? What's going on? Strange. This is one night and again, we'll go into that scenario. Well, it was surreal on a on a global level.

00;19;42;05 - 00;19;50;18
Marvin Avilez 
Right. But Manhattan if you I don't I don't know if you remember that it started to go downhill and it started to go down. It was asked.

00;19;50;20 - 00;19;51;16
Paul Sullivan
Right.

00;19;51;19 - 00;19;51;28
Marvin Avilez 
Right.

00;19;52;00 - 00;20;06;03
Paul Sullivan
And and it was it was literally the epicenter of it, you know. Yeah. So that outbreak in Seattle and then it's really in that beginning concentrated in, in, in New York City and kind of the surrounding, you know, suburban towns.

00;20;06;06 - 00;20;51;02
Marvin Avilez 
Right. And and that's when unfortunately, I came down with Covid, on the first and the first days and it was again, probably the first time since the invasion in Iraq where I had. Yeah, very delusions and, a lot a, you know, a big sense of law of of being lost and kind of remembering back like the air raid sirens going off and, and all of these kind of like, memories of being in the invasion.

00;20;51;04 - 00;21;16;28
Marvin Avilez 
Because all I could hear was ambulance sirens, you know? And I was stuck in this, small apartment, with one of the person, and we made the best of it, but it's just a strange, you know, as you remember, it's just a strange, strange, thing. And then. And then when I got sick, of course, not not not knowing what was going to happen.

00;21;17;04 - 00;21;42;21
Marvin Avilez 
And so, I, I remember just, telling my daughter's mother, like, look, I'm sick. I think we should stop talking. I'll get back to you in a better because I just needed it, you know, lay down and and sleep in. And my sister had gone up. I lost sense of smell and taste, and I just had all the symptoms and clearly so horrible.

00;21;42;24 - 00;22;07;26
Marvin Avilez 
And she's like, hey, I was sick for a good ten days. I had I had a solid case, but it never got into the lungs in the way, you know, that was a that was a tell, right? Yeah. If, if you, if you were losing breathing. But I remember, I remember you know, I don't, you know, I don't know if it was what it was, but I remember her mother saying, hey take care of yourself over text.

00;22;07;29 - 00;22;17;23
Marvin Avilez 
And you know. That. Yeah. That's kind of all you want to hear it no matter what it is. It's like yeah. Doesn't matter.

00;22;17;25 - 00;22;28;02
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. So so you get better at it that summer. You know, there's no international travel. When does travel to London open up again and when are you able to go?

00;22;28;03 - 00;22;58;13
Marvin Avilez 
Yeah. So we were, we were doing, video calls. And I remember, I remember trying my best to, you know, keep a three, three, three year old entertained on video calls. And, there was one thing I did that was really interesting, and I, I mention it because it's something that's true to still to today, but I started, making coffee at home because, you know, we you didn't really leave the house, right?

00;22;58;13 - 00;23;10;07
Marvin Avilez 
There wasn't many places open. And so I started grinding my beans at home, and she would watch, That's fine. Not that I was a big coffee, and she didn't like cooking.

00;23;10;10 - 00;23;14;07
Paul Sullivan
And they noise and. Yes, swirling around.

00;23;14;09 - 00;23;24;03
Marvin Avilez 
Yes, exactly. Exactly. And and, and to this day, that's a big part of our ritual. It's a big, big part.

00;23;24;06 - 00;23;29;11
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. Of our little rituals are important. Traditions are important. Yeah, yeah.

00;23;29;13 - 00;23;47;13
Marvin Avilez 
It's kind of an interesting story. When I, I was like, okay, I need to get I got better, but I got better. But it wasn't like I got better. It was I, I'm not, I, I'm, I don't have fever. I don't, you know, I'm not I can move. But it wasn't that I was like, okay, I'm ready to go run a marathon.

00;23;47;13 - 00;23;51;03
Marvin Avilez 
No, I was really, really not myself.

00;23;51;05 - 00;23;51;15
Paul Sullivan
Right?

00;23;51;22 - 00;24;12;04
Marvin Avilez 
Lost a ton of weight, loss of a lot of muscle mass. I couldn't really figure out what was going on. I was like, you know, who am I? I didn't get sense of smell back for a while. I just feel very tired all the time. So what we call long Covid. Yeah. Is is what I definitely have.

00;24;12;04 - 00;24;35;02
Marvin Avilez 
I had it for, you know, a good six, seven months after. And, and during that period of time I just like oh had to get I had to figure out what was going on again. The world it was, I was spinning. And so what I did is I just I, I gave away a ton of my stuff. I packed stuff and I bought I bought a one way ticket to England.

00;24;35;04 - 00;24;49;22
Paul Sullivan
This is, you know, I this story is incredible throughout, but this is, a such an amazing story. How did you tell us? I know the answer, but tell how did you, literally talk to your way in?

00;24;49;25 - 00;24;51;21
Marvin Avilez 
I literally talk to my brain.

00;24;51;22 - 00;24;56;29
Paul Sullivan
How did that work? This is like counter Intel marine training, like.

00;24;57;01 - 00;25;01;15
Marvin Avilez 
405. This isn't the 1010. This is this is like this.

00;25;01;17 - 00;25;02;14
Paul Sullivan
That would be.

00;25;02;16 - 00;25;04;09
Marvin Avilez 
You know, well, first of all, you know.

00;25;04;15 - 00;25;11;09
Paul Sullivan
Hello, I'm Marvin, and we're in a global pandemic. I'm here from New York. I would like to stay. How does that even happen? How does it feel? You.

00;25;11;11 - 00;25;37;10
Marvin Avilez 
First of all, getting the flight right, how do you get a flight? And and and I was able to find a flight through, Portugal had to fly to the Azores. Again, full mask on the entire time. Right. And, had to do a layover there, believe or not, and do a layover and, and then from there, flew to,

00;25;37;13 - 00;26;09;03
Marvin Avilez 
London Gatwick. Yeah. I remember getting off and, and I think I had that to two duffel military. Well, one military type in and one bigger bag. So again my entire world and a box and a and a bin. Yeah, a plastic bin that I had for files and whatnot. So really minimal minimal stuff, all important papers and some photos and, and then my, my American cast iron.

00;26;09;06 - 00;26;17;27
Marvin Avilez 
Yeah. Which the large, my, my large cast iron pan, which I love cooking. So I'm like, I'm not going to leave it if I.

00;26;17;27 - 00;26;25;24
Paul Sullivan
Can't get that in the UK. It's it's seasoned. I've had it all these years. And you know, it takes a long time to season these things.

00;26;25;27 - 00;26;48;24
Marvin Avilez 
In this part of that story to, getting to customs and then being, you know, didn't they weren't doing an interrogation, but there was a line of questioning like, what are you doing here? You know, and then I'm like, well, I'm here to see my I'm here. My, my daughter lives here like, oh, well, what does she do like?

00;26;48;24 - 00;26;49;20
Marvin Avilez 
Well, no.

00;26;49;22 - 00;26;54;19
Paul Sullivan
She plays with blocks. She watches, you know.

00;26;54;22 - 00;27;17;12
Marvin Avilez 
And they're like, well, okay, well what are you doing? And I said, well I'm, I'm, I'm moving and immigrating. And he's like, oh no, you can't. You're going to have to go back to the States. I'm like, excuse me. And so can you imagine? I'm like like he's like, he's like, you can't you? Because you cannot apply for citizenship while you are here.

00;27;17;12 - 00;27;35;08
Marvin Avilez 
You have to do that from the country of origin. And so I'm like, whoa, whoa whoa whoa, wait wait wait wait. Hold on. I go, look, I think I, I think there's, you know, some confusion. And he's like, well, where where are you going to stay? And I said, well, I had already rented a part of a flat.

00;27;35;08 - 00;28;04;03
Marvin Avilez 
I had a flat here. And I had a flat because I was able to rent one for six months as a visitor and not a, a resident. And I paid up. I paid six months upfront, you know, and, and fortunately, the landlord, rented it because he, I came with the, with my with my daughter, and we, he met us both, and he's like, oh, you know, definitely.

00;28;04;11 - 00;28;33;11
Marvin Avilez 
We'll help you out. So I'm, I'm just my my jaw was falling at the border with, border control told me I can't come in. Yeah, I have to go back to the states. You have to apply and wait for an answer. And I said, well, I do have a a, an agreement for contact. And I pulled that out and he, he reads it, he's like, well, this is you know, you still can't apply.

00;28;33;11 - 00;28;57;14
Marvin Avilez 
And, you know, we then he starts asking me about how much money do I have? And, what about health care? And, you know, just kind of going up and down the line and, and and I was like, look, my daughter is whatever she was at the time can be three and a half or four. Yeah.

00;28;57;17 - 00;29;07;17
Marvin Avilez 
I, I this I'm either going to come in and you're going to let me come in and I'm allowed to do that or a six month visa. And whether or not I apply or not is speculative, right?

00;29;07;17 - 00;29;08;05
Paul Sullivan
Yeah.

00;29;08;07 - 00;29;22;02
Marvin Avilez 
Right. But you know, and he goes, but you just told me you're going to I said, yes, but you know, who knows what's really going to happen? Because the fact of the matter is, the world is upside down. And I kind of just started, you know, to kind of noise and.

00;29;22;05 - 00;29;27;27
Paul Sullivan
You pulled out your, your, your, your skillet you like. And I got, you know, you don't have this would you can I don't.

00;29;27;28 - 00;29;47;10
Marvin Avilez 
Lunch my large cast iron pan. And he goes, look, I don't know what's going on. You seem like a nice guy, but I'm telling you what the law is. Welcome to the UK. And he stamped it and he let me through. That's all I care. That's a that's all I cared about. I was like, well, just get on the other side.

00;29;47;13 - 00;29;54;29
Paul Sullivan
That was the end of part one. Please tune in next week to listen to part two of my conversation with Marvin Avila's.