EP45: A Savvy Pig’s Lessons on Kids and Money

Interview with Michael Beacham / Co-Founder of Money Savvy Generation

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

Inflation may be tough on the family budget but it’s a remarkable time to talk to your kids about money. Take the grocery bill and show your kids how much basic necessities cost today versus last year, says Michael Beacham, president of Money Savvy Generation – a financial education firm for children founded by his wife Susan. He and his wife are the creators of the popular and pragmatic Money Savvy Pig – a porcine savings bank divided into four compartments: Save, Spend, Invest and Donate. Listen for tips on good money values for children and ways to raise financially literate and independent adults. Added benefit – the caps on the hooves are hard to open so they make impulse withdrawals tough.

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Transcript

00;00;05;02 - 00;00;26;13
Paul Sullivan
I'm Paul Sullivan, your host on the Company of Dads podcast, where we explore the sweet, sublime, strange and silly aspects of being a dad in a world where men were the go to parent, often feel they have to hide, or at least not talk about the rules. One thing I know from personal experience is being a dad is not a traditional role for men, but you work full time, part time.

00;00;26;13 - 00;00;51;25
Paul Sullivan
Devote all your time to your family. Parenting is so often left to mothers or paid caregivers, but here at the Company of Dad, our goal is to shake all that off and create a community for fathers, for dads to welcome other dads who want to learn more from them. Today, my guest is Michael Beacham, president of Money Savvy Generation, a financial education firm for children founded by his wife, Susan.

00;00;51;28 - 00;01;15;07
Paul Sullivan
They do a lot of things to help children get a better sense of money. But one of the simplest and most effective is their money savvy pig prop alert here. It's a clear piggy bank. I can see it divided into four compartments save, spend, invest and donate. Basically, the four things you can do with money besides, I guess worry about it.

00;01;15;09 - 00;01;31;22
Paul Sullivan
I have three of these money savvy pigs in my house for each of my daughters. And I met his wife, Susan, back when I was a columnist at the New York Times. So it's really interesting to talk to Michael today, but to say this one thing before, joining his wife, Michael worked in banking and consulting.

00;01;31;22 - 00;01;53;09
Paul Sullivan
And here's here's the kicker here. While he has an MBA from Chicago, he has an undergraduate degree in English and theater. Listen up. Their parents. He has an undergraduate degree in English and theater. Proof to all of you nervous parents out there that you really can do great things with a liberal arts education. Michael, welcome to the podcast.

00;01;53;11 - 00;01;54;24
Michael Beacham
Thank you very much.

00;01;54;26 - 00;02;11;23
Paul Sullivan
The first question you're you're I'm talking to you here in Scottsdale, Arizona, right now. But for a long time, you were in Chicago. Let's join something here. Your initials are m l b mlb a guy initials MLB live in Chicago. So what was it? Cubs or White Sox?

00;02;11;25 - 00;02;12;27
Michael Beacham
It was Cubs.

00;02;12;29 - 00;02;14;14
Paul Sullivan
Cubs? The Cubs. Okay.

00;02;14;17 - 00;02;20;25
Michael Beacham
And, Yeah, that Susan will cringe when she hears me say that because she was a White Sox fan and still is.

00;02;20;25 - 00;02;22;22
Paul Sullivan
Now a divided household. Yet by.

00;02;22;22 - 00;02;23;09
Michael Beacham
The time you.

00;02;23;09 - 00;02;25;08
Paul Sullivan
Could, you know, you could still make it work.

00;02;25;11 - 00;02;27;15
Michael Beacham
Yep. Yes.

00;02;27;17 - 00;02;44;28
Paul Sullivan
See? There's hope. There's. Oh, there's more and more. I hope this is helpful. One of the coldest I ever was in my life was as a graduate student at the University Chicago. And I got tickets to. I don't know if it's opening day, but is one of the, you know, it may not the home opener, they may play another game.

00;02;45;00 - 00;02;53;17
Paul Sullivan
And I sat there and I was so excited. I want to say there was snow on the ground. I literally had this parka on. I was like, this is this is miserable. This is everything.

00;02;53;17 - 00;03;00;05
Michael Beacham
But that. That sounds like Chicago. And yeah, that's why we live in Scottsdale now.

00;03;00;07 - 00;03;14;25
Paul Sullivan
I love it, I love it. Tell me about money savvy. I think of it as money savvy pig. But the company is money savvy generation. Tell the story. Tell the foundation story. How did it all start? Some. Some 20 years ago now.

00;03;14;27 - 00;03;46;07
Michael Beacham
It started when Susan decided to leave her career in private banking, and her intention was to be a stay at home mom. And after two days of going on walks, after getting the kids off to school, her head started spinning and she realized that she couldn't leave behind the corporate world. And so she started thinking, about money.

00;03;46;09 - 00;04;14;29
Michael Beacham
And she thought, well, you know, I should tell our kindergarten teacher, our daughter's kindergarten teacher, that they need to be teaching the kids more about money than just bartering at Thanksgiving and about more than, how to make change, because that was pretty much the money curriculum in our, public school. So she actually went and talked to the kindergarten teacher who said, well, I think that's a great idea.

00;04;15;02 - 00;04;47;08
Michael Beacham
But I don't have time to develop that sort of thing. But you're a former banker. If you want to come in and talk to our classroom, the door is always open. Come on in. Yeah. So Susan decided to take her up on that, and she went back to the house, and she started getting out her flip charts and her poster board, and she started making, a presentation that was big and that was visual and that she thought would engage the kids.

00;04;47;11 - 00;05;14;29
Michael Beacham
And, it was a hit. And so she came back and did another one and did another one. And then the next year, in first grade, the kindergartner and the kindergarten and the first grade teachers wanted to have her in. So it was, it was popular with the kids, it was popular with the teachers. And after three years of doing this, she had a pretty decent curriculum.

00;05;14;29 - 00;05;30;12
Michael Beacham
That was eight lessons that engaged parents at the end. And, then she had the brainstorm of the money savvy pig.

00;05;30;15 - 00;05;33;05
Paul Sullivan
Every time we went, every time we mentioned. I'll hold it up.

00;05;33;12 - 00;06;02;29
Michael Beacham
Thank you I love it. And I think she told you that, when you interviewed her years ago, that the idea came to her in a dream. Could she had been she had been teaching the concept of save, spend, donate and invest using tumblers, different colored tumblers that she would punch, hole and twist tie together. So she had, you know, four tumblers, bank set labeled save, spend, donate and invest.

00;06;03;02 - 00;06;25;00
Michael Beacham
But of course, they weren't very sturdy. And, so she, she was noodling the side on this idea. And one night it came to her in a dream, a four chambered piggy bank. And she had this vision of it. And when she told me about it, I said, that is one of the best ideas you've ever had.

00;06;25;02 - 00;06;57;26
Michael Beacham
And because she is a she's an idea generator, right? And, when I, I don't always say that about all her ideas, but this one, that's that is a great idea. And but we had no idea how to get something like that produced. So we used our network and found a way to, to somebody who produced piggy banks in China and, and who had and somehow Susan found a resource who could actually do that design.

00;06;57;26 - 00;07;02;12
Paul Sullivan
A piggy bank popular in China, like had a piggy bank, or they just everything could be manufactured.

00;07;02;15 - 00;07;06;17
Michael Beacham
Everything is made in China. So I don't know how many. I mean, the concept.

00;07;06;17 - 00;07;18;13
Paul Sullivan
Was there a model for the pig? Like is this is because he's a, you know, it's no happy pig if you can see this, you know, he's not he's eating all this money and and he's happy about it.

00;07;18;13 - 00;07;39;07
Michael Beacham
And and you'll notice that one ear ends up in one ear is down. And that was, that was in her original dream of this piggy back. That one ear was sort of perked up and one ear was folded down. She found an artist who actually was an artist and a sculptor, I think maybe a 1099 who did work for Disney.

00;07;39;10 - 00;08;14;07
Michael Beacham
He was a local to the Chicago area, and she engaged him to first do a drawing of what she had envisioned, and he got the drawing right. And so then he moved on to a clay model of it, and from there, a plastic model that could be then used for creating a mold. And we found a producer in, in the Chicago area who had a factory in China and got the first product prototypes produced.

00;08;14;09 - 00;08;29;05
Michael Beacham
And then, you know, refined the design and then placed an order for a container load of, and this was all on faith that. Yeah, you know, we could sell these things. And, you know, we sold out like that.

00;08;29;08 - 00;08;46;20
Paul Sullivan
That's remarkable. I don't doubt this, you know? Yeah. When this runs, I'll put a link to, you know, one of the stories I wrote about your work. But I do remember she's also, in a chapter of one of my books because you talk about faith, but you also talk about persistence and memory. She told me a story once of trying to get into law school.

00;08;46;23 - 00;09;00;10
Paul Sullivan
And it wasn't going to. And like her dad supposedly, I don't even know if this is true, but it's to give a story. Not like called the Pope or somehow got in touch with the Pope because it is a Jesuit law school and, you know, come on, Pope.

00;09;00;12 - 00;09;04;07
Michael Beacham
Yeah, yeah. So I don't think he spoke to the Pope.

00;09;04;09 - 00;09;05;06
Paul Sullivan
But I don't.

00;09;05;09 - 00;09;31;11
Michael Beacham
But he did speak to somebody at the Vatican and, yeah. Then the, the, the somebody from the Vatican ultimately called the director of admissions at Loyola Law School and said, I don't know who knows what they said, but the director of admissions called Susan and said, yeah. And all my life I've my professional career, I've never had a call like this.

00;09;31;14 - 00;09;38;03
Michael Beacham
And, somebody from the Vatican called and said, they, you know, we should let you into law school. And so they did.

00;09;38;05 - 00;09;41;23
Paul Sullivan
So she comes from a lot of the point of the story. She comes from a long line of persistent people.

00;09;41;23 - 00;09;45;01
Michael Beacham
Correct. She. Right. Correct. She does. Yeah. Yeah.

00;09;45;04 - 00;10;02;26
Paul Sullivan
So what do you think about I mean the pig is amazing because you know, again I'm going to keep him. I think it is. So you know visual and any kid can, can get it and, and also and I don't know if it's by design or not, it's really hard to get the money out. Like, it's really hard to pull the money out the bottom.

00;10;02;26 - 00;10;27;05
Paul Sullivan
And I've, you know, but it's more than that, you know, it's a great it's a great tool, but it talk to me and, and I know at a certain point, you know, you left your own career in financial services to, to join, you know, money savvy generation. And tell me about how this the pig and the curriculum, how has it evolved over the past, you know, 20 years with a couple market cycles that we've gone through?

00;10;27;05 - 00;10;29;27
Paul Sullivan
How does it evolve as it relates to kids and parents?

00;10;30;03 - 00;11;05;21
Michael Beacham
So, Susan, you know, Susan's built the original level of the financial education curriculum, which we call money savvy kids. She built it working with kindergartners and first graders. And when we formalized it and made it something that could be put into schools that were put into the hands of pretty much anybody with an interest in financial education, so that they could teach it.

00;11;05;23 - 00;11;24;18
Michael Beacham
We, we leveled at it sort of the second and third grade level in terms of level of sophistication, the level of the language that we sought. That was a sweet spot, because the level that we build required students to be able to read at, at, at some level.

00;11;24;21 - 00;11;26;03
Paul Sullivan
Okay.

00;11;26;06 - 00;11;33;09
Michael Beacham
And not be just beginning readers, but they had to be able to see, you know, the words like coin and currency and be able to read them.

00;11;33;09 - 00;11;43;11
Paul Sullivan
And was the theory that, you know, it was better to get in when these kids were young to help them develop these money skills as opposed to targeting junior high schools.

00;11;43;11 - 00;12;17;24
Michael Beacham
Or high school. Right? So at the time we started the company, there was a lot of high school education, high school level material out there. And there were a lot of not for profit organizations that were focusing on trying to get financial education into high schools. And our philosophy was that it's better to help someone form a habit rather than trying to have them.

00;12;17;27 - 00;12;18;28
Paul Sullivan
Break a habit.

00;12;19;01 - 00;12;39;00
Michael Beacham
Break a habit. Yeah. So we wanted to start early, and we and Susan knew from her time in kindergarten in first grade that the kids were very eager to learn about money. It was very provocative, you know, they saw it in daily use, and yet they didn't. They themselves didn't really transact. And so there was a mystery to it.

00;12;39;06 - 00;12;48;27
Michael Beacham
So we were helping to unravel the mystery a little bit for them about what money was and, and how it worked and why it existed.

00;12;48;29 - 00;13;04;10
Paul Sullivan
You know, one of the things I've always done, and I learned this from a colleague of mine, from a colleague of mine, you know, time from labor. And that was I pay my kids their allowance in $1 bills. So that one, you know, they can divide it up. And we talk about how they're going to divide it up.

00;13;04;12 - 00;13;23;18
Paul Sullivan
Two, they have a sense of money. Now, when you first started this and 2000, 2001 two, whenever it was, we obviously had ATMs. But there is still a lot more cash, in the economy. And today I maybe I go to that ATM once a month. Maybe, I don't know, I literally make my local coffee. Never.

00;13;23;24 - 00;13;41;19
Paul Sullivan
My local coffee shop only takes cash. And that literally like after I bought enough coffee, I have to go and get and get more. How has the curriculum? How is it the lesson that you're teaching these kids change, as you know, look, you're a parent. You've got two daughters. I have three daughters. Kids are always watching what we're doing.

00;13;41;19 - 00;13;52;13
Paul Sullivan
If we're not transacting in cash and we're transacting in credit cards, debit cards, it changes it. Fundamental. How did how is the curriculum had to evolve and so teach the same lessons but with a different, different media.

00;13;52;13 - 00;14;31;08
Michael Beacham
So I, I would say that it has not evolved in the original eight lessons. We're still teaching kids about cash and one of the. Okay. And one of the reasons is because, cash is very concrete, right. And any, any electronic payment is very abstract. So you have to start with the concrete so that they really understand the concept that we try to teach kids from a very early age that when money is gone, it's gone.

00;14;31;11 - 00;14;58;29
Michael Beacham
And there's no better way than doing that to do that than by showing them the physical cash. Okay. So you had asked earlier about how the whole curriculum has evolved. You know, we we started with one elementary level. We then built and we targeted at second or third grade. We then built down to kindergarten and first grade. And we used a whole different concept.

00;14;58;29 - 00;15;29;25
Michael Beacham
We used a a storytelling concept. And to tell the stories, we took the money savvy pig and we turned it into a puppet. And the so to make the pig, to make the money savvy pig. Sort of the mascot, the friendly mascot of money. Yeah. And from from there we then built we then aged up as our kids aged up, we started working with older kids, and so we aged.

00;15;29;28 - 00;16;02;23
Michael Beacham
We built a fourth grade level and a fifth grade level, and then a middle school level and then a high school level. And then we started writing books, for teenagers and for, college students. Yeah. And then for couples. So as our kids have aged up, we've seen how they continue to relate to money. We we see how what their financial issues are, what is complex in their lives.

00;16;02;23 - 00;16;08;11
Michael Beacham
And we have written about it either in curriculum form or in book form.

00;16;08;13 - 00;16;19;16
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. And, you know, we talked sort of off camera about your daughters or late 20s, early 30s. Right now. Please tell me that would be great. Please tell me they have good money skills.

00;16;19;19 - 00;16;20;06
Michael Beacham
They do.

00;16;20;12 - 00;16;21;03
Paul Sullivan
Think and I'm.

00;16;21;03 - 00;16;22;04
Michael Beacham
Happy to tell you.

00;16;22;05 - 00;16;26;18
Paul Sullivan
Right now, actually, they have $70,000 in credit card debt. Like right now. Okay. Good at work.

00;16;26;18 - 00;17;08;00
Michael Beacham
Eldest daughter. Our eldest daughter, has always worked for companies that had 401 cars. And she started putting the maximum amount she possibly could into her 401 K from day one. And she has a really healthy, investment portfolio now in, in, for retirement set aside for retirement. She has you perhaps over saved in retirement funds in that she and her fiancé are struggling now to put together a down payment for a first house.

00;17;08;03 - 00;17;26;26
Michael Beacham
Right. Because, you know, most of her savings is tied up in retirement money, but that's okay. So she can back off now a little bit in terms of the amount of the percent that she's putting into her for one, so that she can accumulate for other, other things that she needs.

00;17;26;28 - 00;17;47;22
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. But when you think about, you know, 20 plus years of this now and, you know, your kids have age, so you've followed them. But when you you're interacting with the kids at, you know, still back in second grade or a kid in sixth grade, has anything fundamentally changed? Have things changed about the way they're thinking about money or the way money gets talked about?

00;17;47;24 - 00;17;48;23
Paul Sullivan
In their homes?

00;17;48;26 - 00;18;20;29
Michael Beacham
Really? You touched on this a little bit earlier. The biggest thing that has changed, is the the rapid disappearance of cash and how everything is now, you know, electronic. Yeah. And so for our middle school and high school level curricula, we talk a lot more about, electronic payments. We have a whole lesson, called Ways to Pay.

00;18;21;01 - 00;18;53;16
Michael Beacham
And it helps, kids understand the difference between, you know, the important differences in terms of, safety and flexibility and who you're paying differences between, checks and ACH and credit cards and debit cards and the like, and why it's, you know, not safe to use a debit card everywhere you go. Why, it's a lot safer to use a credit card everywhere you go.

00;18;53;17 - 00;19;11;08
Michael Beacham
We we talk a lot about safety and and we now talk, talk. As the internet has matured so have the fraudsters. And so we talk a lot about identity protection and ways to keep your safe yourself safe online.

00;19;11;10 - 00;19;18;01
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. What about with the parent. How how you know, have you helped them have conversations in the home? Have those changed at all?

00;19;18;03 - 00;19;55;25
Michael Beacham
Susan and I are rarely engaged with parents directly, but when our materials are taught in schools, as they are in a lot of places, the education does make its way into the household. Parents. We do engage parents in the curriculum, engages parents or attempts to engage parents. So teachers now have a lot of conversations with parents. Okay, about this material and money.

00;19;55;27 - 00;20;37;21
Michael Beacham
And I'm not sure I can really address whether or not those conversations have changed over time. But we do know from feedback with parents and with teachers that parents are very thankful that the teachers are doing this in their classrooms. Parents either don't have the time or they don't have the, the security and their own level of knowledge of financial topics to be able to sit down with their kids and have a lot of these conversations and teach them a lot of these things, they may have opinions, they may have some knowledge.

00;20;37;25 - 00;20;47;29
Michael Beacham
And the fact that the material that the curriculum is in these classrooms is spurring conversations at home that might not have otherwise taken place.

00;20;48;02 - 00;21;13;11
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. And it's also like you are really hitting these kids, at their most curious and they're most open. And I remember my oldest daughter's 13, and she was probably four when she did this, and she went to a friend's house. And her friend's house is bigger than our house. And so what did she do? She came back and said, you know, dad, why is so-and-so's house bigger than mine?

00;21;13;11 - 00;21;30;03
Paul Sullivan
And I had to pause for a second because at first you think, oh, good God, I'm raising this materialistic child. She wants a bigger house. We don't have a big enough house for her. And then I paused and I realized that her worldview is just comparative. She wanted to know. She really just wanted to know why is our house bigger?

00;21;30;03 - 00;21;51;28
Paul Sullivan
So we went adult conversation about, you know, choices and etc., etc. and, you know, as if I had scripted this not, you know, less than a month later, she went to a friend's house who was smaller than ours. And so we'd set that up. And at that point she's okay. And that started in her mind the ability to think through the choices you can, you know, make with my name.

00;21;51;28 - 00;21;54;06
Paul Sullivan
And this is what the pick is. It saves.

00;21;54;08 - 00;21;56;11
Michael Beacham
And that's exactly what it's about, right? Yeah.

00;21;56;12 - 00;22;13;28
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, yeah. And so those choices okay. Let's talk a bit more about. So I want to make sure, you know the dads moms are parents listening. Really. You drive home the point of how important it is to talk about, you know, choices when it comes to money. Even, I would argue, even more important than actual raw dollar amounts.

00;22;13;28 - 00;22;25;03
Paul Sullivan
It's the choices you make. Talk about, you know, how parents can can help. You know, obviously wanted to go to money savvy generation, but how they can help, you know, lead those conversations in their homes around money and choices.

00;22;25;08 - 00;22;58;00
Michael Beacham
So the four choices that we teach with the money savvy pig and that we also teach with the cash cash basic personal finance organizer, which is targeted really at middle schoolers or young teens. The four choices are save, spend, donate, and invest. And this is how we tell parents to think about it. Saving is for short term goals and things that you might need or want within the coming months, maybe up to a year.

00;22;58;02 - 00;23;33;04
Michael Beacham
And invest thing is for things that are more long term things that you might want ten years from now because you really shouldn't invest with anything less than about a ten year time horizon. Otherwise it's too risky. However, over a ten year time horizon, you're much more likely to earn a lot more on your money by investing it than you are by just saving it, even in a high yield savings account these days.

00;23;33;06 - 00;23;38;15
Michael Beacham
We also talk about the concept of goals. If you're.

00;23;38;18 - 00;23;45;11
Paul Sullivan
Referring to the concept of goals, talk about, you know, as I look at my here in a savings for more short term, what is the spend them what when you say.

00;23;45;16 - 00;24;17;12
Michael Beacham
So. Yes. So so so spending is money that you, have spending is very short term things that you are trying to accumulate for next week, maybe next month. Things that maybe you want to buy for yourself. Or maybe, the spend money is money you're accumulating to buy somebody else a birthday present. Okay. And then of course donate.

00;24;17;15 - 00;24;55;01
Michael Beacham
Donate is money that you want to spend on other people. The, the donates a lot there is to get, get kids thinking philanthropically. So it might be money that you are you're planning to put in the offering plate at church. It might be money that you want to give to the animal shelter. But it's money to help other people, not help yourself, other than from the psychic income you get from being philanthropic.

00;24;55;04 - 00;25;01;27
Paul Sullivan
Sure. And I cut you off there. You said you kind of roll the conversation up into talking about goal. So, so.

00;25;01;29 - 00;25;33;07
Michael Beacham
So for each one of the choices, you should have a goal in mind. At least one goal. So let's start with investing in long term. What as a kid, if you're thinking ten years out, what might you need or want ten years from now? Well, you might need a car. You might need a college education. If you're a high school or what?

00;25;33;07 - 00;26;00;09
Michael Beacham
You might what might you need ten years from now? Well, you might need a house, something like that. So always have a goal in mind. And, because goals keep you motivated. If it's something you really want, it will keep you motivated to contribute in in that channel towards your towards your goal. Can goals change? Absolutely. Yeah.

00;26;00;12 - 00;26;16;27
Michael Beacham
And they do all the time. So thinking. Yeah. Short term with the save money. What is your what's your goal. Well let's, let's say I want, an Xbox. I want to save up for an Xbox within the next year.

00;26;17;00 - 00;26;44;21
Paul Sullivan
This would be great, Michael. Thank you, for being my guest today on the Company Desk podcast. One last question for you. We're talking, inflation is at, a generational high. There's a lot of discussion, around recession. The come here. How, you know, how can parents, you know, model or communicate, you know, the reality of today or their concerns about today?

00;26;44;21 - 00;26;57;01
Paul Sullivan
How can they model those to to their, their children and help them? Understand the sort of, you know, macroeconomic external, effects that that can happen on, on somebody's money and savings, the.

00;26;57;04 - 00;27;37;28
Michael Beacham
The inflation that we're experiencing. Right now is a great teaching opportunity for kids. It's a great opportunity to sit down with the grocery bill, from the grocery store, the receipt from the grocery store, and talk to kids about how much more expensive things are today than they were a year ago. And, and help them understand the concept of inflation and, help them understand how it erodes your, your buying power.

00;27;38;00 - 00;28;05;06
Michael Beacham
A lot of so in I notice when I go to the grocery store that some of the items small items, let's say a jar of jam, the cost of it is, in fact, about 40% higher than it was a year ago. Well, I'm not making 40% more money this year than I was making last year.

00;28;05;08 - 00;28;18;14
Michael Beacham
And if I'm gonna buy that jar of jam and try and keep my grocery bill in line, keep it under control, then maybe then something else has got a gift. Yeah.

00;28;18;14 - 00;28;19;23
Paul Sullivan
To give. Yeah.

00;28;19;25 - 00;28;39;01
Michael Beacham
So it's a great opportunity to show, to show kids the necessity of trading off one item versus another. One choice versus another in order to make the budget work.

00;28;39;04 - 00;28;44;01
Paul Sullivan
That's fantastic. Thank you. Michael. Again, I'm really grateful for you joining me today.

00;28;44;04 - 00;28;46;04
Michael Beacham
You are welcome. I'm those. My pleasure. Thanks.