EP86: How One Company Created Parenting Equity at Work

Interview with Deanne Aussem / Wellbeing Leader At PWC

HOSTED BY PAUL SULLIVAN

Creating a wellbeing platform for a large, multinational company like PwC, the professional services firm, has been a decade in the making. But it positioned the company well in the post-Covid shift to how, where and when we're working. The company's Parenting Inclusion Network offers equal benefits for mothers and fathers - but more than that, it works with parents (and caregivers more broadly) to integrate work and life. Listen to Deanne Aussem, who heads the firm's wellbeing initiative, talk about what works and what still needs to be done - with tips for other companies starting out.

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Transcript

00;00;05;22 - 00;00;25;11
Paul Sullivan
Welcome to the Company of Dads podcast, where we explore the sweet, silly, strange and sublime aspects of being a dad in a world where men who are the go to parent aren't always accepted at work, among their friends, or in the community for what they're doing. I'm your host, Paul Sullivan. Our podcast is just one of the many things we produce each week at the company.

00;00;25;11 - 00;00;50;07
Paul Sullivan
Dads. We have various features, including the lead of the week. We have our community both online and also with in-person events. We're in a resource library for all fathers. The one stop shop for all of this is our newsletter. The dad. to sign up at the companyofdads.com/thedad. Today, my guest is Deanne Aussem, the wellbeing leader at professional services firm GWC.

00;00;50;09 - 00;01;20;15
Paul Sullivan
She's been at the firm in a variety of roles for 20 plus years. Her current role is described as, quote, driving strategy, innovation and an overall positive workplace culture that supports Work-Life integration, prioritizes holistic well-being to sustain a happy, engaged and thriving community of solvers at work. Based in Los Angeles, Diane is a mother of two, a son who is 12.5 years old and a daughter, 11.

00;01;20;17 - 00;01;32;22
Paul Sullivan
She's married to an Australian woman named Jodie, who runs her own business. Focus on turning old wetsuits into jewelry. It is very cool. Welcome, Diane, to the Company of Dads podcast.

00;01;32;24 - 00;01;37;27
Deanne Aussem
Well thank you Paul. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here with you all.

00;01;38;00 - 00;01;46;23
Paul Sullivan
I don't want to put you on the spot, with the first questionnaire, but I am, you know, I've seen some photos of you out there. Is it true that you have a bulldog as your family pet?

00;01;46;25 - 00;02;07;22
Deanne Aussem
It is true. In fact, it is. He is one of five pets in the house. We are. We are big animal lovers here. But he's a very special guy. If you know Bulldogs, they have quite the personality. So he is always into something. But providing nonstop laugh, love and memories for sure.

00;02;07;25 - 00;02;15;20
Paul Sullivan
Well, I know he's not here on this podcast because if he was, I would hear him snoring because we we know that although they do snore or we don't, they they snore.

00;02;15;24 - 00;02;29;00
Deanne Aussem
They make a variety of noises. Paul, that are sometimes unwelcome, sometimes welcome. So you never know what you're going to get. Which is exactly why he is in the other room while we're having this conversation today.

00;02;29;02 - 00;02;37;25
Paul Sullivan
I love it. What's a day or even a week life like in the life of weeks? Well-Being. Oh.

00;02;37;27 - 00;03;11;07
Deanne Aussem
Wow. Well, that's a that's a good question to start off with. No day, no week is really ever the same. I would say it. There's a lot of variety. One thing that does remain consistent is my ability to connect with our people. I spend a lot of time talking with our people to understand, what a day in their life is like and what support and resources would be helpful for them to be able to be their best and thrive as you intrude.

00;03;11;09 - 00;03;37;27
Deanne Aussem
So that we can be the best whole community of solvers that we possibly can be for our clients, for our teammates, and for ourselves. So, I get to do a lot of really cool things. I think I do have probably the best job, really focused in on wellbeing and making sure that we have a healthy, positive culture where our people, again, can thrive and really, be taken care of.

00;03;37;28 - 00;03;46;20
Deanne Aussem
Care is one of our values that we take really seriously. So, I'm honored and privileged to be able to serve in this role.

00;03;46;23 - 00;04;08;26
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, but if there's one thing I know about humans, you know, I spent 25 years as a journalist. Most of that at the New York Times is that, people don't often write a letter to say, hey, you know, that was wonderful. Thanks for doing that for me. Maybe they do. Maybe they do a bit visit. But in general, when you think about, you know, the top three things that you hear day after day or week after week that people are not.

00;04;08;26 - 00;04;23;21
Paul Sullivan
I'm not saying people are complaining, but it's something that they're concerned about and they would like their like your help with it would like you to help help them solve that problem. So that they can be problem solvers for other people. What are, you know, a couple of those things that really stand out, to you.

00;04;23;25 - 00;05;03;03
Deanne Aussem
Yeah. Great. Thank you for asking that. A variety of different things. Of course, but if I had to really boil that down into a few key themes and again, we've, we've recently, about a year ago launched our My Plus strategy, which is focused on doubling down on supporting our people. It's our people strategy. We do a lot of listening, and we have a lot of really great tools to be able to listen to our people so that that's one thing that we we provide that forum, that format, to be able to collect input so that, again, we can act with intention, to provide what it is our people need.

00;05;03;05 - 00;05;30;20
Deanne Aussem
So I don't know that it's unique to work, because this is a theme that I hear, in my personal communities, fellow parents with children my age or older or younger. I think time remains that precious resource that people don't feel like they have enough of. And so I heard a really interesting, a really interesting quote that helped me reframe my own way of thinking about time.

00;05;30;22 - 00;05;55;10
Deanne Aussem
And it's a shift away from prioritizing my time. So you may have heard of this or say it yourself, Paul, I need to prioritize my time better. It's not actually about that. It's about making time for your priorities. And I'm pretty sure that's a Stephen Covey quote. But how do we make time for our priorities? Is by understanding what we value and what we want to prioritize.

00;05;55;12 - 00;06;31;16
Deanne Aussem
And so that's one thing that, as I hear that from our people at work, as we're thinking about, making work, work for people's lives and how we really achieve that type of integration, how do we make time for our priorities and how do we better understand what we value, what our values are so that we can be putting our time into those places and understanding, like, what type of gap do I have if I say my family is really important, but I'm not devoting the majority of my time, energy, etc. to them, then I have a gap.

00;06;31;18 - 00;06;57;01
Deanne Aussem
And in our world at public, we love data. We love to measure things and analyze and gain those insights. So whenever we can turn this into an activity or an exercise that people feel like they can recognize, acknowledge, and then put a plan around to make some measurable progress against. So the time, the time, comment is definitely one that I hear a lot.

00;06;57;03 - 00;07;22;10
Deanne Aussem
And then another thing is really just understanding better understanding the support that is actually available. So we have a variety of tremendous resources that we offer to our people. What we're working on in a very tech enabled, AI driven way is how we organize that information and make it even more accessible, because it benefits only a benefit if people actually take advantage of it, and it's helpful for them.

00;07;22;13 - 00;07;36;00
Deanne Aussem
So that's another thing I hear is, how can you help me make sense of all that we have available to better understand what I can use and when. So that again, that provides that that comfort of support.

00;07;36;03 - 00;07;57;26
Paul Sullivan
Yeah. The first couple of you made about time is essential. And some of the senior leaders that I've talked to who've made a difference at their firms have really been public about their calendars, and they put on their calendars spending time. And there's a story I've told a million times. A fellow West Coast, partner CMO works for a firm largely, center gravity on the East Coast.

00;07;57;29 - 00;08;12;17
Paul Sullivan
And he put in his calendar that he was going to spend an hour and a half each day getting his son ready for school, you know, seven day 30. Not a big deal if you're on the East Coast, because that's where the majority of people were. Big deal for him because people thought that he should be, you know, ready to go.

00;08;12;17 - 00;08;30;00
Paul Sullivan
You're on the West Coast too, obviously, but it made a difference for him as a person. So that was important. But what he found over month is that it made a huge difference for the people who reported up to him. He was a partner. Nothing was going to happen to him. Nobody's going to fire him. They would work around him, but it meant he was leading by an example that allowed he he was a dad.

00;08;30;00 - 00;08;44;23
Paul Sullivan
But both, you know, moms and dads to feel that they could do a similar thing in your, your role, you know, in well-being. It's one thing if you have, you know, I don't know, 20 somethings, 30 somethings coming to you, and saying, hey, you know, Dan, this is what we want to do. Do you have this research?

00;08;44;23 - 00;09;00;20
Paul Sullivan
Yes. But what do you do if they say, well, is is my manager really modeling that, or how do you encourage those managers to model those people in their 40s and 50s, maybe 60s, who are who are established, who got their, in a different regime, got there in a different way, where well-being wasn't something we talked about.

00;09;00;20 - 00;09;03;07
Paul Sullivan
How do you encourage them to model for, for their younger?

00;09;03;09 - 00;09;28;24
Deanne Aussem
Yeah. You hit that nail right on the head, Paul. Because role modeling, the values that we talk about and espouse is critical. It's one of the the many foundations of great leadership. And it's something that again, at work, we we strongly advocate for, we do have wellbeing team plans that our teams we having the tools available to take an assessment.

00;09;28;24 - 00;09;52;27
Deanne Aussem
So when we talk about well-being, we're talking about it very holistically. Of course it's physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financial and social. And so everything that we embed in the conversation revolves around those six different dimensions. And so when we provide that type of a framework, it gives people a language to say, you know, I took this assessment, I'm a little deficient in my emotional dimension.

00;09;53;04 - 00;10;14;22
Deanne Aussem
Here are some habits. We provide a habit bank that people can make withdrawals from or deposits into, of those effective habits that might help them strengthen whatever dimension of well-being they're looking for support around. We take that a step further, because well-being is not a one size fits all. It's very personal and individualized. But we also do want to make it a team activity.

00;10;14;22 - 00;10;47;22
Deanne Aussem
So with these team well-being plans, what we're trying to encourage is this value of community coming together so I can have my own personal set of goals and habits. But as a team operating and working together, what is it that we want to prioritize when it comes to taking care of ourselves and our well-being moving forward? So, I would say that very visible making space for that conversation, incorporating this is part of just how we plan to do our work together has been a huge advantage.

00;10;47;28 - 00;11;15;03
Deanne Aussem
We also have talked about well-being as a leadership skill. We expect our leaders to be proficient when it comes to well-being. That shifted the conversation, and this is not a new conversation for us. By the way, Paul, it's something we've been talking about for well over a decade. Has it evolved and morphed and changed? Of course, as you would expect, it ebbs and flows with other specific factors and needs, whatnot.

00;11;15;03 - 00;11;37;12
Deanne Aussem
But the visible role model and leadership. And I'll just tell you a quick story, because I love the calendar experiment. It's something I've done, putting protected time on the calendar, knowing when I'm my best and when I also want to make it very public, when I am chaperoning a field trip, or if I have to decline a meeting invite because it conflicts with me.

00;11;37;12 - 00;12;02;22
Deanne Aussem
Chaperon a field trip. I'm very vocal and transparent into why I'm saying no, to help people understand why I'm setting the boundaries that I'm setting, and I've gotten such positive feedback, from others who have really seen that as a visible sign of permission for them to also speak up and activate their voice to talk about what's important for them when it comes to life outside of work or setting those boundaries.

00;12;02;24 - 00;12;23;17
Deanne Aussem
So we can't underestimate the power and the value that comes from our own example. And sometimes it's a courageous act, and sometimes it's maybe something we don't think much of. But having that visible leadership, supporting the values and role modeling our own well-being is, is really important.

00;12;23;19 - 00;12;44;14
Paul Sullivan
Do you think that would have been I mean, did you do that in 2019? Or is this something that, you know, you in the firm feels more comfortable doing in the post-Covid world? And I ask that because, you know, the 000 was ubiquitous, you know, pre-COVID, then we all figured out that we could work from home. And then it's, you know, that honesty, you know, we talk a lot about this company.

00;12;44;17 - 00;12;59;13
Paul Sullivan
Honesty matters so much. You're not just out of the office, you're out of the office because you're chaperoning field trip, and you're doing it from X hour to Y hour, and then you'll be available afterwards. Or you'll you'll do it. Would you have felt this comfortable doing that pre-COVID as you're feeling?

00;12;59;16 - 00;13;03;27
Deanne Aussem
I say absolutely. Again, this notion of flexibility.

00;13;03;27 - 00;13;20;09
Paul Sullivan
How about how about a firm as a whole, although like, okay, I guess the wellbeing officer should feel comfortable doing that, but like the firm as a whole, have you noticed, a difference in people giving them permission to be giving themselves permission to be honest with, with what they're doing beyond work, you know, pre-COVID versus.

00;13;20;09 - 00;13;49;02
Deanne Aussem
Yeah, I mean, I really think that our wellbeing journey, as we talk about it today stretches back into how we were talking about flexibility back in, say, 2010. And so really at that point, looking at what is work, work is not a place that we go to necessarily, but it's something that we do. So working flexibly really has always been a part of our culture, something that is ingrained rather than earned.

00;13;49;05 - 00;14;12;17
Deanne Aussem
And our people do appreciate being able to choose where and when they work. And we will continue to prioritize, just as we have done over the last 13 ish years. When we officially or formally started that flexibility journey. But we're going to continue to prioritize that through inclusive hybrid work culture, that we are offering today and again, a variety of flexible arrangements.

00;14;12;17 - 00;14;38;16
Deanne Aussem
So that's where I think we're talking about it. Now, of course, in a post-Covid world where what is the office even mean? We didn't go to an office in office for, quite a while now. We have a return to office. Priority again, really with the intention of getting us back together. We have folks who started to work during the pandemic who maybe still haven't gone into an office.

00;14;38;16 - 00;15;01;14
Deanne Aussem
So we want to build that community, bringing that social aspect of our wellbeing strategy to life to make sure we are staying connected because you know full well, as human beings, we are wired for connectivity. I mean, we are we are social creatures. So, I actually just give you my own personal example. I don't set an out of office, so to speak, even if that's how the technology labels it.

00;15;01;14 - 00;15;20;05
Deanne Aussem
When I'm going to be away from work. That's what I say. I am away from work right now, okay? I'm not out of the office. I am away from work doing this. I'll be out from this time to this time. And here's when you can expect to get a response from me. So having that clear communication to you, don't leave anybody hanging.

00;15;20;07 - 00;15;33;15
Deanne Aussem
It's like you're away from work. But when am I going to be able to get an answer? So it's that holistic way of framing and communicating that I think is really important. And people understand. People understand. Yeah, that.

00;15;33;18 - 00;15;49;26
Paul Sullivan
They respect it. It's kind of like this old, old signs of it. Hang on. Delis, you know, back in ten minutes. Well, I don't even know what that means. Like, when did you leave? How do I know what ten minutes is like? Out of office is like, I'm away from work until, you know, I want to pivot and focus a little bit on the parenting Inclusion network.

00;15;49;28 - 00;16;14;20
Paul Sullivan
You know, at the company as we focus on, on fathers and we, we advocate for more, support of fathers at work, be that in, you know, parenting group, parenting groups together with all parents or on their own feeling that they can take in a parental leave and not be penalized for it. Obviously, we do this because, it's good for dads, but we also know that it's really good for working moms as well, because it removes the stigma that all caregiving is going to kind of fall on women.

00;16;14;28 - 00;16;25;22
Paul Sullivan
You know, we're humans. We're we're talking about humans. And, you know, parenting is is a human thing. What are some of these policies? Focused on specifically for.

00;16;25;25 - 00;16;53;16
Deanne Aussem
Working down? Yeah. Firm. Yeah. I love this. Thank you for asking that question. Let me start, Paul, with maybe taking a step back, because we have 11 inclusion networks made up of over 20,000 of our people who share common backgrounds or life experiences or interests. So these are, open to everybody, members of a specific affinity, allies, someone who's interested in learning more or really just a general supporter.

00;16;53;16 - 00;17;25;12
Deanne Aussem
So, our Parenting Inclusion Network, which is the one I specifically want to talk about, given your question that launched nationally in 2018. So we did have local chapters established prior to 2008. But now with that formal launch, we've got about 3500 plus members across the US. So that network really provides support, resources, community for working parents so that we can connect and achieve that work life integration.

00;17;25;12 - 00;17;58;02
Deanne Aussem
That's in addition to these formal benefits that I'll I'll speak about in just a moment. But we do a lot of, of things like that again, to create community, because we are completely committed to supporting parents through all phases of caregiving, regardless of gender identity. There's a reason we talk about paid parental leave instead of maternity leave, or because we know today, especially families are comprised of, a variety of different scenarios.

00;17;58;05 - 00;18;26;21
Deanne Aussem
And so our parental leave really is available for anyone who is a new parent through birth, surrogacy, adoption placement, foster placement, again, regardless of gender. And one thing you might find interesting, Paul, is in 2022, what we noticed again, remember I said we love data. We love to measure and count things. There was nearly a 5050 split between fathers and mothers who took advantage of parental leave benefit.

00;18;26;23 - 00;18;56;11
Deanne Aussem
So how much time do we give our folks? We recently expanded that leave for all parents from 8 to 12 week 12 weeks. So now again, everyone gets 12 weeks. To allow for additional bonding time with a newborn or again, a newly adopted or foster care child. So one other thing that I'll mention. And then as you can tell, I'm pretty excited about all of this is what I think is a really special benefit when our people are returning to work.

00;18;56;11 - 00;19;23;28
Deanne Aussem
So after their 12 week parental leave, TWC also offers an additional four weeks of what we would call a phased return to work, which allows returning parents to work a reduced schedule, say 60% of a 40 hour workweek or 24 hours. But we pay them their regular based pay. So during that transition period, parents don't have to worry about a reduced compensation.

00;19;23;28 - 00;19;32;00
Deanne Aussem
And it's extra time again to to on ramp back into working after that paid parental leave.

00;19;32;02 - 00;19;46;13
Paul Sullivan
You know you're obviously preaching to the converted here. You know, you I get what you're saying, but, I just had a call before our call with a very senior person in financial services who took the opposite view. Like, you know, if we give people this much time off, how are they gonna earn the money on this?

00;19;46;19 - 00;20;03;01
Paul Sullivan
But obviously it's working for for you. When you think about it, we're talking about very important things, critical things. Everybody should have the opportunity for parental leave. But what is a business reason for me to have such, a robust and and open and generous, you know, well-being plan?

00;20;03;01 - 00;20;34;13
Deanne Aussem
Yeah. I our, our people and our clients who are also people are the heartbeat of our business. And I would say we we understand the value of hard work. I mean, people don't choose the professional service environment without expecting to to work really hard. And we also understand that there is this notion of human sustainability, of which well-being is obviously foundational.

00;20;34;20 - 00;21;17;08
Deanne Aussem
And so when we can create these spaces for people to bring their whole selves to work, activate their voice and ask for what they want, set those boundaries and be very realistic. Also, work hard and understand the demands of delivering exceptional service. All of that really matters and again, creates this culture of care and belonging that we are really striving to to create one other thing, just to give you another example, and again, I mentioned a little bit before of our, our, my plus strategy, which again we believe is a brand defining people experience.

00;21;17;10 - 00;21;43;03
Deanne Aussem
It's we're trying to rethink the work experience in our profession to continually attract, retain and develop leading talent in the industry, to serve our clients, fuel our growth, and really set a new standard for the business community. So just as we are relentlessly client focused, we are unwavering in our ongoing investment in our people. As I said, our people are the heartbeat of our firm.

00;21;43;03 - 00;22;07;05
Deanne Aussem
That's never going to change. And when we do things like offer these amazing benefits or value protected time together, another thing that we do twice a year is, a firm wide shutdown so different from vacation, which again, we have very generous vacation policy in July and in December, we have a full week where we take that time off together.

00;22;07;08 - 00;22;35;11
Deanne Aussem
And that's a very different feeling. People just come back feeling refreshed, renewed, re-energized from that type of a reset, and then that translates into amazing productivity and excellence in deliverables and superior relationships with our clients. There is a direct tie to taking care of ourselves and being well into our business strategy and priority, and we've really value that.

00;22;35;14 - 00;22;45;18
Deanne Aussem
Our most senior level leadership has value that for a very long time. And it's just become something that is threaded through the fabric of our culture at work.

00;22;45;20 - 00;22;54;25
Paul Sullivan
But to tell the truth, at the end, there has to be one employee that has to be somebody out there that you're sending an email to, like, Bob, stop emailing people. The firm has been shut down. Stop it. I tell you this before.

00;22;54;26 - 00;23;21;15
Deanne Aussem
You're going to find, whether it's Bob or Jack or Betty. I mean, it could be anybody, right? You're always going to have folks who maybe aren't as, aren't as far along on the journey. But here's what I will tell you. When we just did our July 2023 firm shutdown, we of course send a survey. We asked for feedback and input.

00;23;21;21 - 00;23;53;13
Deanne Aussem
We sent a survey that over 20,000 workers completed, again after that shutdown time, we wanted to understand if their time away was protected or interrupted. If it was interrupted, we wanted to understand why was it self-imposed? Did somebody reach out and ask, did Bob contact you and ask you for something during that time? And of those 20,000 plus respondents, 93% said their time off was uninterrupted and protected 93%.

00;23;53;15 - 00;23;54;16
Paul Sullivan
That's impressive.

00;23;54;18 - 00;24;16;05
Deanne Aussem
That's impressive. So to answer your question directly, well, we always have those who and and again, we are client service business. We we will have some client needs that must go on during that shutdown period. And then we try to again put something else in place for those that if they didn't take full advantage of the shutdown, how can we provide them with that protected time at a later point?

00;24;16;08 - 00;24;28;26
Deanne Aussem
So again, it's we have to be flexible, we have to compromise. But for 93% of our respondents to say their time off was uninterrupted and protected is is pretty spectacular. Number.

00;24;28;29 - 00;24;48;23
Paul Sullivan
Yeah, we're coming up against our time here. But a couple more questions. So one is, you know, I applaud you for the parental leave. I applaud you for what you do with people who, you know, adopt surrogacy. I mean, it is remarkable. And not enough firms have even that, you know, the basic level of humanity around, employees who become parents.

00;24;48;26 - 00;25;03;02
Paul Sullivan
However, you have an 11 year old and a 12.5 year old, and, for some, it is accomplished and smart as you are. You also have a bulldog, which blows my mind because those dogs go to the vet all the time. It's a journey, you know, I I've got a six year old, 11 year old, a 14 year old.

00;25;03;02 - 00;25;24;28
Paul Sullivan
It's a journey. And it's not like, okay, parental leave is over. This thing is going to run itself. Things come up with kids and not, you know, always, you know, you can plan for the field trip. Okay, I'm going to go chaperon the field trip. Well, that's two months down the road. You know, we've advocated for something that the company does for companies to adopt what we call care days, which is different from a sick day from a personally, obviously different vacation day.

00;25;25;00 - 00;25;44;05
Paul Sullivan
It allows you to be honest, with why you're suddenly not there. How do you, sort of, help your your, your employees, your tens of thousands of employees when these emergencies come up? It's obviously one thing my, my, my kid fell off her bike. She broke her like, oh, we'll go do that. But there are other things.

00;25;44;05 - 00;26;02;14
Paul Sullivan
So there's the emotional part. My, my, my, my teenagers have been, really tough time at school. I need to leave, early, to take her out for. For ice cream. How do you work that into the the culture of the firm. And a lot of people still work at a very high level, which needs to be done, but also tend to those sort of care emergencies that that crop up.

00;26;02;20 - 00;26;33;22
Deanne Aussem
Yeah. Well, I have to say, Paul, I'm probably needing more protected time to run my bulldog back and forth to the vet than I may for my children. But besides that, I understand and appreciate the point and where you're you're going with the question. We have what we refer to as Candid conversation series, where we create these spaces for people to come together, discuss perspectives, experiences, within a very candid conversation.

00;26;33;22 - 00;27;05;18
Deanne Aussem
We do a lot of listening to each other. We learn from one another, so that we can better understand the lived experiences of people we work with every day. So these types of, conversations happen at the national level, at the local office level, within our inclusion networks that I mentioned very grassroots ways at times. We've even had our chairman talk openly on a town hall about some of his own family circumstances and when he's needed to take some time away.

00;27;05;18 - 00;27;31;07
Deanne Aussem
And it just gives this tone of permission and understanding that we are human beings who come together to do the work that we do at a place called work. And we are human beings that have lives, outside of the work that we are doing as well. So again, I think we, we try to really listen to what our people need.

00;27;31;07 - 00;27;55;09
Deanne Aussem
It goes back to our culture of flexibility. It goes back to asking for what you need. The team planning helps a lot. What we've sometimes seen teams do is at the beginning of an engagement, talk about their their goals, not only on the project, of course, but, on their well-being goals as well. Or maybe it is in their community service goals.

00;27;55;12 - 00;28;20;21
Deanne Aussem
We value a lot of of that type of outside of work, give back so that we can be contributing members of our communities as well. We know people. Their purpose is fueled in many different ways. And so again, that's just another example of, valuing that protected time as branded as important by the individual and has to be understood by my team.

00;28;20;21 - 00;28;39;10
Deanne Aussem
Now, we have to be able to understand, well, if I'm going to be out this day at that time and you're going to be gone this day at that time, because you want to take your kid for an ice cream or, you know, maybe there's some therapy sessions that, that you're accompanying your child to or that you're going to for yourself.

00;28;39;13 - 00;29;01;05
Deanne Aussem
The openness in which we have brought that forward. And again, I'm talking about the well-being, but we've also had a lot of this come through in our diversity, equity and inclusion. We want to be a safe space to talk about things that are going on in our lives so that we can become that support for each other and again, really live out that value of care.

00;29;01;05 - 00;29;23;06
Deanne Aussem
So, I would tell you, a lot of people do have those very specific conversations. I'm going to log out for the next 90 minutes because I need to go pick up my child, take them for an ice cream, and I'm going to be back on at 430 to review this deliverable, and I'll have something back to you by five or whatever.

00;29;23;08 - 00;29;52;09
Deanne Aussem
That type of communication is, is really something we're trying to showcase firm leaders sharing, showcase our people sharing so that again, we really provide, that space for people to authentically share who they are, how they feel, so that we're strengthening that culture of belonging. And when we do that, it it does require a shift from awareness to empathy and.

00;29;52;11 - 00;29;52;18
Paul Sullivan
An.

00;29;52;18 - 00;30;13;16
Deanne Aussem
Active demonstration of inclusive leadership to to cultivate a greater sense of trust. And so that's, again, we we really, talk a lot about trust and how important that is. Doing all these different things lead us to that trusting space where we're just all better together.

00;30;13;19 - 00;30;34;11
Paul Sullivan
Then awesome. Thank you for being my guest and accompanied as a podcast. Final question. Since there is a part of C, that is consultants, when you, you know, somebody's listening to this and they're like, okay, great to see figure this out. How do I even start this at my firm. You know, what would you say? Like if they want to start a wellbeing program, what you what are the low hanging fruit.

00;30;34;11 - 00;30;37;25
Paul Sullivan
One, two, three that they could do to get something off the ground that would be meaningful.

00;30;38;02 - 00;30;55;02
Deanne Aussem
And I do want to say, Paul, we've done a lot of tremendous things, but we are still on a journey. I don't think we have everything figured out, and we will continue to listen to our people and clients and, so that we can understand what else we could be doing. What would be an even better if so?

00;30;55;05 - 00;31;24;27
Deanne Aussem
We're always listening for that as well. But I am very proud of, where we've been, where we're going and the type of support and culture that we've built for our people. I would say if you're just starting out and you're looking to start somewhere, start small, but start. Don't wait until you have this ideal solution. Ask your people, what is it that would be most helpful for you?

00;31;25;00 - 00;31;56;22
Deanne Aussem
Make sure you're talking about a wellbeing strategy interlinked with the business strategy. This doesn't work when it feels like an add on. Bolt on kind of ad hoc program that sits off to the side. When we talk about well-being, it is foundational to who we are as an organization, much like our deep sense of purpose, and who we believe we are and the values that we have as an organization.

00;31;56;22 - 00;32;18;21
Deanne Aussem
We talk about those in the same way. So you have to have that tone at the top. You have to have that leadership buy in. Rarely do things happen without leaders being bought in and ready to invest in the idea and the go forward plan, you have to understand from more of the grassroots levels what's important. What do people want?

00;32;18;21 - 00;32;45;26
Deanne Aussem
You can't design solutions in an ivory tower that, again, aren't going to be considered benefits or important to the people that they are meant to serve and support. So the leadership by in talking and listening to your people understanding what they need and then just start experimenting with things. Pilot. We run a lot of pilots, a lot of experiments with different tools, tax apps, different technology.

00;32;45;26 - 00;32;56;29
Deanne Aussem
So again, we've gone through a lot to get to where we are, but it's because we've been willing to experiment early and often based on the feedback from our people.

00;32;57;02 - 00;33;00;18
Paul Sullivan
That's great advice. Thank you again, Diane. I really appreciate you having join me.

00;33;00;23 - 00;33;02;22
Deanne Aussem
Thank you Paul.

00;33;02;25 - 00;33;28;04
Paul Sullivan
Thank you for listening to the company podcast. I also want to thank the people who make this podcast and everything else that we do. The company that possible, Helder Moura, who is our audio producer Lindsey Decker handles all of our social media. Terry Brennan, who's helping us with the newsletter and audience acquisition, Emily Servin, who is our web maestro, and of course, Evan Roosevelt, who is working side by side with me.

00;33;28;04 - 00;33;45;24
Paul Sullivan
And many of the things that we do here at the company of D&D. It's a great team. And we're we're just trying to bring you the best in fatherhood. Remember, the one stop shop for everything is our newsletter, the dad. Sign up at the Company of dads.com backslash. The dad. Thank you again for listening.