I Thought I Was Over This

Building Authentic Community with guest Mandy Ream [Friendship Series 2]

February 21, 2024 Dr. Kimber Episode 80

I Thought I Was Over This

Feb 21, 2024 Episode 80

Dr. Kimber

This episode is Part 2 of a conversation between Dr. Kimber and Mandy Ream about community and friendship. Click here to listen to Part 1. In this episode, Mandy shares her own experiences and wisdom on refueling at home after work, navigating differences in opinions, and the importance of bringing one's unique gifts to a community. Together, they discuss the practical benefits and emotional impact of being part of a supportive network, drawing from their personal stories of building, nurturing, and finding strength in various communities.

From the challenges of creating close-knit communities to the practicalities of living in harmony with neighbors, Dr. Kimber and Mandy touch on the value of being known and cared for by others, the rewards of volunteering, and the joy of finding common ground in diverse interactions.

Throughout the episode, Mandy and Dr. Kimber offer thoughtful insights, practical tips, and heartwarming anecdotes, encouraging listeners to cultivate meaningful connections and pursue purposeful involvement in their communities. So, grab your favorite beverage and get ready to embark on a journey of reflection and inspiration.

In this episode, you will discover:

The importance of finding ways to refuel and show up authentically outside of comfort zones, while not overextending oneself in different life seasons.
The value of building and participating in community, recognizing the need for diverse contributions, and the creative ways to do so, like organizing a meal train or cultivating small gatherings.
The power of being part of something bigger than oneself, whether through intentional communities, volunteer work, or involvement in diverse groups, and the rewards of supporting and being known by a diverse range of people.

MORE ON SPECIAL GUEST MANDY REAM…

Her work is also featured in Grub Street, Pink Panther Magazine, Literary Mama, and Remington Review. More can be found at www.mandyosterhausream.com. She is happiest in water. Instagram: @mandy.ream

Dr. Kimber:
Well, welcome back to part 2. I am so excited that Mandy has said yes to the invitation to talking about community. If you missed part 1, go back. You'll hear a much longer intro of my friend Mandy. But just to kind of summarize, Mandy is a professor at a community college. She, teaches in the communication studies. She is an author of a group of essays. She is a writer.

Dr. Kimber:
She has been a friend of mine for a very long time, and community is something that we are really, really intentional about. And, also, she is the Mandy in my book, Still Making a Whole When Parts Go Missing. And one of my motivations for, wanting to talk about community is really how she and my friends and my church community came alongside me and my family in the loss of my son. I would not have been able to navigate it if I would not have had such community support. I'm well, I would have navigated it. I mean, grief comes for us. We navigate it. But the way in which I was able to process my grief and really lived the rest of my life completely transformed is because I got through the worst possible day of my life and emerged out of it knowing that I have a safety net.

Dr. Kimber:
That really lie life can come for me in devastating ways, and I will still have a safety net because I build intentional community. And that's really part of my motivation. But, also, the flip side of that is I have had some killer birthday parties because I have an amazing community. And so we can celebrate and dance and have fun. And, Mandy, you have had some killer parties, And that is also the blessing, right, that we that celebrations and devastations can all be held by community. And so welcome, Mandy.

Mandy:
Well, it's good to be that. Thank you so much.

Dr. Kimber:
You're so welcome.

Mandy:
I love talking about community and building community.

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah, well, tell me a little bit. You you are very intentional about community. So why does community matter to you. And and as a caveat really quick, we are not philosophers. So

Mandy:
I mean, you

Dr. Kimber:
I mean, I just wanna say that because, we're not clearly defining community. I just wanna leave that out that that you can use some words to define community, but I also don't wanna, like, narrow it as philosophers or maybe researchers would be like, here it is. I'm just saying. I'm giving me myself permission to have it be a little more abstract.

Mandy:
Yeah. That's helpful. Because, I mean, I there's so many different ways to think about, right, a group of people or, I think it's interesting. I've really thought about why community has been so important. And one of the reasons I think is because it was modeled for me growing up. So some of it was how my parents, largely through church. We're part of a a large Episcopal church in Northern Virginia and how they modeled community and our my family extended family was also a part of that. And then we moved away in high school, and I felt the absence of community and then watched it be built again.

Mandy:
And then, when I moved to California to Mary Judd, again, felt the absence and the importance of it. Like, being being and what I'm trying to say is, like, wanting a place to belong. I think the bottom line is and what my parents modeled for me was this sense of belonging that I have wanted. And and I, After college, lived overseas for a year and a half, and I was even reflecting on that living in Austria, found a community. Like, a group of people With common interests and we went skiing. We were also part of a church community. We, did different things together. We served together.

Mandy:
I moved Back to the Washington DC area after that. And again, there was a group of people, that I I remember organizing for different service projects or we would have discussion groups that are at my parents' house at the time. But I really value just for me personally, having a place to belong. I mean, that just is really I need that. Sometimes I feel a little funny saying that. So, yeah, that's that's just been kind of, I think, the root of it and then seen how other people need it, and it it it builds on itself. And then even if I might be an initiator sometimes of a group, I love watching that vision take over, and and so then it's it's not just me trying to do this, but seeing other people kind of catch that vision and see it as valuable. So, yeah, I think it really starts from a place of belonging.

Mandy:
And then the other thing I was thinking about is really practically. I mean, really practically, it is really helpful, to be a part of a group. And this is something I told my neighbors for 13 years that we my husband and I would host the chili cook off, which recently, post pandemic. Some of the neighbors were like, okay. It's time. Which I'm always and kind of speaking of catching the vision, like, Somebody help. Okay. I'm good.

Mandy:
Okay. Which I'm excited about. But, part of that was out of my believing It is really valuable to know your neighbors. So that community is simply that we all share the street. Now all 45 houses on my street are not all best friends, But a lot of those people would gather for this chili cook off, and and I would say because I love to give speeches. We don't have to be best friends, but it is valuable to know your neighbors very practically so that we we because and something that's funny is we don't all have to own 6 foot long banquet tables. K. Not everybody has to have them.

Mandy:
I'll have 3 of them. Everybody can borrow them. Right? My neighbors last night, one came over here for dinner. She's passing by my next door neighbors. Their garage is open. We don't see the cars. Right? Let's test. I have everybody's number.

Mandy:
Hey. Just checking in. Your garage is open. I don't see the cars. Oh, I meant to close it. Right? Very practical. Yes. In ways that, I think we miss if we live solely in isolation, you know, independent of Other people.

Mandy:
So

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah. That's such a powerful word. I love that vision, and I feel envious. I had a a community kind of neighborhood like that. And now I when we moved, but it's been, like, 12 years, so there's no excuse. But I feel like that close knit community. That is not something that I have cultivated as much. And in fact, because I'm part of an HOA, I was just reflecting on I say because I'm part of an HOA is because, you know, you have to have these community guidelines, and you don't always agree with one another about what those community guidelines are.

Dr. Kimber:
And I really thought to myself, I need a better intention because the way that I am working up against I have different landscaping expectations. So I am literally up against some of these neighbors all the time, and that is not cultivating the emotional connection that I want. And so it's something I'm gonna chew on. Like, how can I show up differently, and how can I be empowered? And that's another thing for me about community is sometimes it's being empowered around those things that you feel unempowered, alone, that it can help keep you motivated to make change, to make progress, to address systems. I think community can be a really valuable asset in keeping on keeping on when it's not in the urgent or something like that.

Mandy:
So Well and I think even what you're saying, like, conflict Is different if I have a relationship with the peep and and, I mean, we're seeking about a very specific type of community and neighbors. Yes. I've been reflecting on this in an election year during the pandemic, during past elect presidential elections. Right?

Dr. Kimber:
Yep.

Mandy:
And we don't all agree. And people put signs in their yards, and there's a lot of different Things happening. Yeah. The pandemic was not navigated the same by everybody on the street. But I was continually reminded that these are my I have a relationship with people. And because we have sought to build community, it's not that we didn't have conflict, but It was how we navigated it.

Dr. Kimber:
Right? Yes.

Mandy:
In the presidential election, I just keep reminding myself, I will live next door to I will be not next door, but I will be on this street with these neighbors regardless of whatever happens, and and that helps me in that regard. But, But, yeah, I think it's been really if there's just a real practicality to it, it helps us navigate, like, well, I've already said that conflict and stuff like that. But, But other communities, I think about you and I have walked through, you know, in your story, that was a community of friends Largely from college and that history, and then for a time I was at going to your church. Yeah. That was a group of people, friendships that developed into something bigger of a group that really navigated kind of with you and dentist that season. Yeah. Very practical in some ways.

Dr. Kimber:
Exactly. Yes. Very practical and emotional connection happening.

Mandy:
Sure.

Dr. Kimber:
And you and I, we were part of an intentional community of women for 20 years.

Mandy:
Yeah. Almost. Yeah.

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah. And we had really we kind of, like, morphed. We started out as a bible study, I think. Right?

Mandy:
Started out as the I think it was initially that book club.

Dr. Kimber:
Oh, yes. It was like

Mandy:
the Betty Friedan, which I don't even know if we finished her book. And then it was like, well, when should we go to bible study? Because I feel like I almost feel like that was what I thought we were you were supposed to say, but we what we wanted to do was talk about life.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes.

Mandy:
I wanna read the bible. I wanna talk to you about the hard stuff.

Dr. Kimber:
Right. So I think we we chucked the curriculum week 2 or 3.

Mandy:
Sorry. Go

Dr. Kimber:
there. Never, like it's very clear. We all want to talk and share a life.

Mandy:
Totally. Yeah.

Dr. Kimber:
So I think whether initially, I think there were 8 of us, 9 of us, do you think? Been people

Mandy:
7 maybe. 7.

Dr. Kimber:
7. Okay.

Mandy:
Moved. Yeah. People moved.

Dr. Kimber:
So there's initially 7 people moved. And then for, really the majority of the time for 19, 20 years. Right? There were 5 of us.

Mandy:
Yeah.

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah. Changed some things, but, essentially, our format was one of us hosted. We rotated who hosted. We had dinner together, and then the time that we had left, we rotated sharing. And I know kind of how we shared at times changed, and you correct me if this doesn't land. But, essentially, we tried to give everybody equal, not a 100%, like, rigid equal, but, like, I think, when

Mandy:
Yeah.

Dr. Kimber:
On the crises, somebody might get the whole time, but that was the exception rather than the rule because you want everyone to be able to be seen and heard. Yeah. And and so that's I mean, the way that we did it. You couldn't get around sharing deeply because in part, I think we wanted to be known, but also I think the structure helped it.

Mandy:
Yeah. And that was, I mean, that was so specific and in terms of what we're doing to create and it was so intentional. And it was funny because sometimes it you know, I remember coming like, I don't know if I have anything to share by the end. And wait. And then it'd be oh, time's up. But I remember thinking because I was going through significant infertility issues that we then chose in vitro and, And then for my 2nd son, the diagnosis of Down syndrome. And I remember reflecting on why I didn't do like, I didn't go to in vitro a support group specifically for that or I I really didn't join. Haven't been a big part of large Down syndrome of support groups.

Mandy:
We're just sort of starting that now, and part of that was because I had that community. Like, the 5 of us were talking and processing. So even though infertility wasn't necessarily what anybody else was, you know, going through, we each had our own thing, but We we had created a space where you could bring really hard stuff, and it was not gonna leave that room. And, Yeah. I mean, that was that was astounding and intimate, and

Dr. Kimber:
out

Mandy:
book at some point. 1 of us is gonna write.

Dr. Kimber:
Oh, that would be so powerful. It was so sacred. Yeah. And, you know, we walked through death. 1 of our members died, and been another member moved away. And, yeah, it was we we had to really learned how to embrace so many things together.

Mandy:
Yeah. I mean, I feel like that was the real not that we hadn't experienced grief before, but there was a lot of concentrated grief. And One of the things I was thinking about that related to our just having our conversation about friendship is that community. Certainly, we were friends in that. We all had kind of different levels of history and friendship even within the 5 of us.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes.

Mandy:
One of the things that I was thinking about in terms of community, and I said to you this to you before, the whole is greater than some of its parts, that there was a power In us being together, that was bigger than just 5 of us. So that when some of these very difficult things came up that We weren't just helping the 1 person in prices, but then I you know, you and I could talk or you and someone else could talk, and and there was a power bigger. And I was thinking about that, like, again, back to my neighborhood. Like, one of the things that we did for years, and we still do from time to time, we just had a period of calm, I will say, on my street. But, when something would happen or someone had surgery or it seemed like there was a 10 year period of time when Everybody was having babies truly. Yes. And, we would all do a meal train. Like, maybe many of us listening are familiar with a meal train.

Mandy:
Right? But but I remember, Like, that is a community thing that's bigger than just 1 person or 2 people bringing meals. It was like we had this whole like, for a month, here. And we did that for some in our group too, and you could draw bring people in. And and I'm so struck by, that power. The the power of community bigger than just maybe 1 or 2 people and and that can do. Yeah. It was funny because okay. This is a really practical thing too.

Mandy:
This is really funny. I I fractured my foot playing pickleball. I'll wait For the listener to stop laughing. No. I mean and everybody's been enjoying them. Anyway deployed to so tragic. Fractured my foot. And it was that's a story for another time.

Mandy:
But, in my neighborhood, you know, I was I was thinking, oh my gosh. I'm gonna need assistance, You know, one of the I really wanted one of those knee scooters. And, again, it's one of those things where it's like, I am certain people on my street, because I walked with some of them through their own injuries, have this equipment. And by the end of the, like, hour because I we have a text chain and I texted my neighbors. I had crutches, a walker with wheels for upstairs and an e scooter, which then ended up traveling across country with me. And I was so struck by just how Then people in the group text were responding. Okay. Well, we could get you a new scooter here.

Mandy:
Okay. And then what do you need? And and so there was an energy too. I just happen to be the focal point at that one point at Park. Yes. Everybody kind of was the energy of all of us together, and I remember that, you know, as we called ourselves the graces as We graces were doing that. Like, there was an energy when we were all focused. Maybe something here with you. I can remember gathering, and this was this was beyond just the 5 of us.

Mandy:
1 of the friends in the extended friend group for you had organized us coming and being up standing in front of your house. Just sort of the time to show support collectively and And pray and, and again, that there was a power in the community expression of love for you all. Yes. So all the good of intentional community. One more. Okay. I've got I I I have a I because I was thinking about because I love it. And, I've already disclosed my enthusiasm.

Mandy:
Another community that I have been a just privilege, a humble privilege to be a part of is the fire department. And before I married my husband, I did not know a single fireman. No clue. And, I met him, married him, and did not realize that by marrying him, part of what I was marrying into was this community. And I'm so struck by the power of the firefighting community and how small groups within his own department, larger groups. Firefighters nationally, like, are for one another in many ways. And, and then my husband was a part of a fireman softball team, and that was a powerful community. Just this group of people, but but firefighters are really, really unique in that way, and that's been a a real privilege To just be a part of that.

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah. It's so powerful. And I just love bearing witness to the ways that that community has come around you as you launched your book. Like, how fun. Totally.

Mandy:
It is. I did I did not know that, firefighter I just didn't even yeah. Some great firefighters have really liked my book, and that's been really sweet. It's so fun. It's been really an honor. Yeah. A lot. Yeah.

Mandy:
But that's an incredibly powerful a bath. Thank you so much.

Dr. Kimber:
And I I grew up in the smoke jumper community, and my that's my dad was a smoke jumper. And I remember growing up every, you know, summer day that they weren't out fighting fires in a different state or somewhere, We would do these potlucks, and all of us would come. It we were at the, put the cookhouse, and it was so shaping for me because the camaraderie that you would get to know all the kids, and you would get to run around everywhere on the smoke jumper base. I mean, it was just so fun. So I think that was one of my first taste of deep community Yeah. And just being seen by other adults and being known and cared for, and, that was like, as a child, that was very sweet.

Mandy:
Yeah. It's it's awesome.

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah. And I I feel like, you know, that's something that both you and I have have kind of given our own children is was really important for me that my kids be known by other adults because, probably, I mean, just that really powerful experience of the smokejumpers. I also grew up in a very small town, and my family owned, the golf course, so I got a lot of fun exposure to lots of people. Lots of people got to see me grow up, which has good and and bad. Couldn't get away with much, when so many people know you. Yeah. But there was something so secure for me that felt very safe and secure of having so many touch points with people and being known by this wide variety of people. There was something about that that felt very nurturing to me.

Dr. Kimber:
And so, we have been in small groups, book clubs, all of those things where our children have been able to be a part of it so that other adults on learning who they are, know them, can speak into their life even beyond what us parents can do. So that's been super. I've loved it.

Mandy:
Yeah. That's interesting. That was something my mom articulated, growing up. And part of it, it was in relation that was actually in relationship with church when I would be bemoaned. Like, come on. Take a Sunday off, lady. But, But she would say, you know, I and and that was part of their friendships with other adults that we would be known By other adults. And and that would simply help their own parenting.

Mandy:
Like, my mom was I I wanted to be in community as I was parenting because, You know, there were limits there. But I also think about the city that I live in, not just my neighborhood, but My sons are growing up in a space where we have connected to the greater community even just in as much as the short for the time that I was on the PTA or did the PTA board or participate in a a local nonprofit organization. Like, there's a couple things that I do, but then my my older son in particular does, my younger son, that connects us to the greater city in a way that I love what you're saying. They have a place. They can see I'm bigger than something than just myself. I'm connected with teenagers that people are watching. Grateful. My son said, I was like, how do you know that? I just know this.

Mandy:
Yeah. I'm in the community. And I've tapped her foot. No. No. I haven't tapped. Anyway. Yeah.

Mandy:
Just all these different ways places to connect. But I think the thing that we keep talking about is to be known. Right.

Dr. Kimber:
To be

Mandy:
known, and to give out to to I think I may have said already, but to be a part of something bigger than myself.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes

Mandy:
have a purpose that's not just me and my family. It's me and my neighborhood, me and my city, The graces we were, you know, we were about something that wasn't just us.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes.

Mandy:
Powerful.

Dr. Kimber:
I agree. And it's even, you know, reasons to do volunteer work that what I love about even being able to volunteer at the school is I I realized that as I'm saying that, that is a place of privilege because I can go volunteer. I have the time to volunteer, but I get to learn about my son's friends, and I get to also be an adult tea speaking into other teenagers' lives, in this way. It's because my son's a teenager, but, you know, certainly growing up, been able to learn about his friends to know his friends. I it is so incredibly rewarding to be able to get to know people, humans, and I love how volunteering for different things can just give you exposure to lots of different people that you wouldn't meet otherwise.

Mandy:
Yeah. And it's interesting that you just something that you just said reminds me we have a close mutual friend, And I remember she talking about when her kids were in elementary school and having an opportunity, you know, had had space and and I I I really honor that. Like, not everyone's able do this and she had windows where she was able to go be in the classroom. And and she was aware of bringing good To these little people. Like and I love that she because I really value this friend that she knew that part of what she was participating in this community was Bringing the good things she had to give. Yes. She had things that she was able to bring, and, And I loved that because part of participating is I'm good at some things. You're good at other things.

Mandy:
You know? I have neighbors who, some have a focus on 1 area that's very different than me. And then we come together, we're hitting a lot of touch points that our city might need our neighborhood or, you know, our friend. I think that's significant. I mean, even that we're hearing For our friend is the graces. You know? Each one of us, I mean, brought different strengths.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes.

Mandy:
My wild sense of humor that was just so, right. No. And No. But I mean, you know, like, If everybody had come into a hard situation with levity, that

Dr. Kimber:
would be

Mandy:
that would be frustrating because it's serious. And and I can certainly be serious, but also, I could be humor to something. Right? And

Dr. Kimber:
Like David Sedaris' I don't remember which book you brought because,

Mandy:
come in. You talk pretty one day. Jesus shaves.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes. Over to the hospital, right, where our friend Amy had just gotten brain surgery. I mean, that I would have never thought of that. It was such bring such joy. We had so much fun laughing as we were facing into the uncertainty of, wow, you went a month ago without knowing you had any cancer, and now here we are with brain surgery.

Mandy:
I do write about that in the chapter, the healing power of the bucket bucket. I write about that story.

Dr. Kimber:
I love that. Yeah.

Mandy:
But we all bring something. And it can I think sometimes if in our loneliness or our own kind of Sometimes myself, naval gazing? If I can bring what I my gifts or my time or something to someone else, It's that purpose. Yeah. It takes us out of ourselves in in good ways, I think.

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah. That and that maybe if you're a listener and an introvert, I want to challenge you in 2024. You matter. And it can feel very comfortable to isolate possibly or to keep your world familiar, but there is such value in kind of taking a leap and recognizing that you have gifts to share, that a community, a child, could really benefit. And I don't say that to shame you, to guilt you. It's just merely an invitation. And if you're a if you are a person who actually has been running, running, running, running, running and are now in a place where you have familiarity and you're more isolating because you're resting. Well, that this this word does not apply to you.

Dr. Kimber:
This my inspiration, my invitation rather is really for that person who you're you're not really recognizing your value, the value that you have to give to the collective. We need the world needs all of us. And, yes, it's important to be there for your family, and there is a world greater than your family that also, at times, can benefit. Now, again, I'm been cleared. This is seasonal. Right? Of course, if you have very young children and you're you you know? That maybe all that you're doing. Right?

Mandy:
Yeah. That's really about that's really valuable because I think that, you know, you can't We don't know how people listen to this conversation, but I can remember times of really intentionally not jumping in And volunteering or doing different things. And it was it was very much a season of listening and paying attention to myself and things around me Because in certain paradigms, it was like, okay. Yes. He says I'm a mother of young children, but I should be giving out, You know, to my community, all these different things. And I'm thinking, I'm exhausted. And I was angry that that in my internal voice was like, yes. Go do more.

Mandy:
Do more. Do more. So and then I can also I can get tripped up in that. And so, yeah, I love that. That I I spent a lot of time waiting And very intentionally so all the things that you and I have talked about have been over the course of 25 year. Like, asked. All the other things at one time. And I stopped doing the chili cook off on my street for a while because I thought I I need a break like, I I need to invest differently.

Mandy:
So so I got a free little library built in my driveway. And what that did was, a, give me a place to put all the books I bought during the pandemic, and, b, I was still participating in my community without totally interacting with everybody all the time because I was really with drawing and needing really my own time. And so now I have a community builder that just sits at the end of my driveway, And people come. And if I see people, we'll chat. And I do have 1 neighbor who does knock who, for a while, would knock on my door. Hey. I'm pretty booked. But, So, again, now you can offer that as a creative way to say we can participate Because sometimes again, I I hear you and I talking.

Mandy:
Somebody sound very social. You know, the group thing could sound very exhausting. Like, I don't wanna do that, but, taking a meal to a neighbor and I will say, like, again, some of this is really risky, but Years ago, I had a neighbor across the street, and we would chat. And I knew that her daughter was on the autism spectrum, and this is prior to When I had my son with Down syndrome, we had just found my dentist. Anyway and then her husband suddenly died. It was very set it right across the street from me. And then over time, this is part of the waiting. I was I was not doing a ton of volunteering and stuff, but I was paying attention.

Mandy:
I was trying to pay attention to the community around me. And it dawned on me, like, she's by herself with her daughter who I believe is requiring a lot of care, And I wonder if she wants a dinner. And it and I remember walking over across the street and we've been neighbors enough and would chat, but I mean, And I remember thinking, oh my gosh. I'm gonna do this. Now this is kind of a Mandy move, and sometimes I even think I'm about to pull a Mandy. And I walked over and knocked on her door, and I thought, She's gonna think I'm nuts. I said, look. I'm making lasagna.

Mandy:
I I would love to bring some over. Would you like some? Yes, please. Here's the pan. I mean, she was like, Yes. Yes. And so so then from time to time, I would just knock and say or I'd call her. I mean, I that one, I had her number. Like, hey.

Mandy:
I'm, you know, Making extra. And because my husband, the fireman, is gone, you know, 24 hours a time, there were times when I was home by myself with kids, and so I would just make extra, whatever.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes.

Mandy:
And I offer that story to really paint a picture of how good of a person I am. No. No. But to just say, like, we can be creative That's participating in my neighborhood without, like, hosting a big part.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes.

Mandy:
No. Like, there's there's solitary things that we can do still be connected to the greater something greater. So

Dr. Kimber:
Exactly. I well, I love that. Such a beautiful tip. And and, again, if you're in a office at work and you're an introvert, there is nothing wrong with them coming home and refueling.

Mandy:
Yeah. For sure.

Dr. Kimber:
Right? And are there other when you have when your bucket is full, are there ways that you can show up that would still in still honor how you wanna show up at the same time of kind of getting outside your comfort zone. Like, right now, I don't bring very many meals to people. That is just something I've kind of, said it's so it can be so stressful. I don't have that capacity. And so even I've gone from kind of loving doing that. And then now the season of I'm gonna give my permission myself permission to assumed that other people are gonna take that space, and I'm gonna show up this way.

Mandy:
Totally. And this is this is not to you, Kim, but I do wanna offer. I have a great friend who, really does not cook, and she loves to participate in meal trains. And so she will call the person and say, what restaurant May I order food for

Dr. Kimber:
you? Yes.

Mandy:
Like, I love that was so you know, because, again, it's like sometimes I'm supposed to bake something, and I will get a baked good from the grocery store.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes. We

Mandy:
get outside of the confine. You know? Like

Dr. Kimber:
Exactly. No. That that's exactly how I can participate, right, in the mail train. It's like I'm giving myself permission to have a pass on something that feels so exhausting because that's not really what we're talking about here. We're not we're we're the invitation is to be authentic. And are there ways that you might be limiting yourself because you're not noticing the value that you have. And, and sometimes, yeah, you may might be overextending, and and in that case, that's we're not we're not inviting you because you need to refuel, you know, or or whatnot. So

Mandy:
Well, I think that's a good word. Because again, I mean, I don't know What subtext would come through in this conversation you and I are having? And I'm not as much in this place, but you know me. Historically, I'm not doing enough has been a mantra in my head. And so this that word overextending, I think, Particularly if we're in certain faith communities and how that can be spun, it's like, yeah, do more. And and if you're wired like I am, That can get really problematic.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes.

Mandy:
So I, I I I don't I feel like I've really looked at that a lot, and I can spend hours by myself doing my 1,000 piece puzzles and very contentedly not overextending. So, you know, again

Dr. Kimber:
Exactly. Right?

Mandy:
All about investment and that kind of thing. And and then there were other seasons where I had yeah. Like, you're saying different energy.

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah. And even being like I remember kind of when my kids were were younger, that was such a draining experience for me. So building communities of, hey. Let's go to the park, or we would go do gymnastics. And so you got to no people around you whose kids went to the same classes. Like Yeah. Yeah. Just kind of giving yourself permission of how can I get refueled in in a in a season where I'm just giving out so much? Yeah.

Dr. Kimber:
And Yeah. So it's so important to be receiving as much as you're pouring out, and there are definitely different seasons in our lives, whether it be young kids or caregiving or going through grief or, you know, all those things where we need a lot of cushion and a lot of space.

Mandy:
Well and and, I mean, again, like, Yes. And and a lot of support. I mean, that's that's again, we're back to that word complexity. This is where it becomes Yes. Because we Community is so valuable in those hard times. So we give them you know? It's like I have been in seasons of receiving. I've been in seasons of giving. All the while invested in in a group or a a place or a location or a city, you know, with the understanding that being connected to Something bigger than myself is valuable.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes.

Mandy:
And, again, I I just wanna reiterate, like, coming back to very practically, Like, we're we're in a climate a cultural climate where people are in communities, but they're in very polarized community. So oftentimes, we we might align or associate or kind of get in our groups where we all believe the same thing. That's another reason why I think knowing our neighbors although I'm in a fairly homogeneous city to a certain extent, but, but being in community with people, that don't agree with what we agree with the work, where we have to wrestle with different things, I think, is a great antidote to our culture at the moment. But, So I I find that extremely valuable. I just find this valuable on so many levels. I hope that's coming through.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes. I a I received that and just I love your enthusiasm and just think that this you know, our kind of this conversation is so important because we are in an election year. And, you know, how can we? Let's get to some of what you teach. Like, how can we hold complexity? How can we be in relationship? Because I too value being in relationship with people who do not think a like who me, who do not look like me, who have different backgrounds. I mean, that is one of the most beautiful things about living in the Los Angeles area. That that is actually my expectation is that I I am one of difference in some ways, you know, given wherever I am. But, yeah, how can we hold that? How can we not try to go to the homogeneous, which feels better and but doesn't stretch us, doesn't helped us hold diverse views and hold complexity.

Mandy:
Yeah. That's really I mean, I'm I'm thinking about that as you're asking that question because I'm thinking about part of what we've just talked about is the value of, You know, connecting with commonalities, and and and we are shifting to a certain extent to connecting In our differences so I wanna highlight again. We have seasons. You know? I mean, I I just I know that if I had been listening at certain seasons of my life into this podcast, I would've been like, wait. Now I have to connect with people here, and I have to you know, again, let's do more. So I I think I wanna just say that out loud even for anybody I

Dr. Kimber:
love that.

Mandy:
Like me. But, again, my neighbors In many ways, our commonality is we share the street. Right? So we have some commonalities. I don't live in LA County. I live in Orange County. And in my section, there is some homogeneity. That said, there are some great differences, and and I'm grateful that the emphasis has been on relationships. So finding the common ground So that one, the differences arise.

Mandy:
I have the common ground to stand on while we discuss or, In some cases, don't discuss. And and and not how many you're doing this great. I mean, we've had some conflict. Like, some people we've navigated, you know, pandemic in different ways and, you know, those type of things. But Yes. But I continually, let our proximity and our relationship guide us through the conflict. And I I do I do see that as really valuable and and, possible. And and that's what I do in my class.

Mandy:
I do teach, Right now, this is not necessarily my was not my background, but I'm currently teaching a gender communication asked, which just by saying those words can point to a lot of conflict. And so even in my class, I spend a lot of time. We have students coming from many different backgrounds and ideologies and perspectives and many different things. And so trying to create a space where first we understand our collective humanity. They get to know one another as, fellow students, Fellow humans, try you know, in the struggle of oftentimes, some of them are maybe different ages, but, in their twenties, They find commonality. So then when the debates or the discussions about some of these issues where they find themselves at different ends, I'm I know I'm being a little redundant, but they come back to the relationship. Oh, wait a minute. I liked you.

Mandy:
Oh, yeah. Remember we had that in common from high school? Because I have him do all these, like, 1 or 3 things in common. Oh, our families were the same. So then Yeah. So then we can start talking about some of the, you know, issues, and and it it it takes it just takes them a minute. There's a pause. An invite. Community takes that some of that other element away.

Mandy:
We did say we're not philosophers. I I am thinking about at least 2 philosophers who could potentially be listening to this, and they might have different perspectives. So I just

Dr. Kimber:
Yes.

Mandy:
This is anecdotal, but I have been paying attention. But confirmed a lot. Exactly. Exactly.

Dr. Kimber:
We're just giving being we have giving ourselves the freedom to not definitively defined certain things and to have some of it be how you're reading into it. You know?

Mandy:
Which is I'm getting older and we talk about complexity. I am much more open to the open ended questions. So I'm laughing because our discussions of friendship and community, if if someone is looking for a how to, Here's the list that's there's some that that this is less bad.

Dr. Kimber:
That's right.

Mandy:
I'm more open to wrestling with, you know, it's this. And then in the next minute, I'm gonna totally contradict myself, and it's this because it's a paradox.

Dr. Kimber:
It is a paradox.

Mandy:
Possible. You know?

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah. And it's like in some ways, it's like how kind of having enough of the self that I don't always need to be understood. I can understand. Right? Maybe this person that I that's on the other side of this conversation, is so heated and and animated that that might be a clue to me of actually, there's not really space for my opinion. Sure. And so I can actually be empowered to notice that and to choose to just be a listener.

Mandy:
Yeah. Yeah. That's really that's really insightful. Like, I don't have to this isn't the space where I'm gonna need to prove my point.

Dr. Kimber:
Gap.

Mandy:
You've just said it's by being a listener sometimes is choosing relationships. And and I'm just the way I'm wired, I and and and Not everybody is absolutely inspired this way, but I will choose that relationship over, like you're saying, of being right.

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah.

Mandy:
Or I will ask I've also learned to ask a lot of questions, and I'm more motivated to ask questions if I'm in relationship if I'm in community with someone. I wanna say community because not necessarily relationship. So in my Yeah. In my city, I obviously don't know all the citizens in my city. But because we share this space Yep. I'm learning to be open relationally. Like, hey. You're a fellow member of my city, and we really see things very differently, but I'm gonna approached you because we're a member of the same commute community.

Mandy:
Now not everybody is able to do that back, and I might have to walk away. I mean, sometimes they're really toxic, and I can't have the conversation. But But I'm learning if that guides me. It it's a totally different approach to people. When I say, okay. We're in this Together. That was we were just we're in we're all in this together was my tagline when I was in the PTA community.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes.

Mandy:
Because I I'm guided by that. We're all in this together. Yep. In in any level of community, that's really been a mantra for me.

Dr. Kimber:
And I feel like when we're in community, empowerment can look so different. It doesn't being empowered doesn't mean I have to be understood. Been empowered can be, oh, I'm gonna choose to listen even if I know I have something to offer. But in this moment, I actually don't think it's valuable for me to demand I be listened to or demand that I be heard. And in fact, it would be it would better serve me in this moment to write a letter to someone who's actually going to be able to make a change of what we're debating.

Mandy:
Yeah.

Dr. Kimber:
Right? Like, I just think there's different ways that we can kind of hold what does it mean to be listened to? What does it mean to be a voice? It doesn't always mean in that moment speaking up.

Mandy:
Yeah. Yeah. We can do

Dr. Kimber:
it in different ways and still have an impact in our community. So

Mandy:
And sometimes well and I I feel like you were talking about we're parallel comp like, we have this community conversation, and we're talking about kind of conflict looked in community

Dr. Kimber:
Yes.

Mandy:
Cultural issues. But I do think I have seen and studied the power of listening, Not just in building a connection, but can actually open another person up to other possibilities. Like, it it is an interesting dynamic, which would be another conversation. But

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah. I love that. I love that. Well, is there anything else that you want people to know. Do you feel like we gave people practical of how do you build community. And we talked about neighbors.

Mandy:
Yeah. One thing I was thinking about like, if you if someone is interested in this, like, okay. How do I build community? One of the things I did on my street Was I I actually had a friend. So I, like, when I started the Chili Cook Off, I had gone to know 2 women on my street at that point, And I made sure that they were able to come to the party. So, like, I kind of just would have small conversations or, like, 1 friend, like, hey. Do you wanna do this to me? So that it wasn't just

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah. Okay.

Mandy:
I'm gonna out. Like, when we did the book club, all those years ago when our friendship started, I asked you, Hey. Do you wanna do this? And then we invited other people. Yeah. And I've I've kind of always done that.

Dr. Kimber:
Like so

Mandy:
I know that even if just 1, To be honest, I know if only 1 person shows up, it's still gonna be fun, but but we can draw and that I'm not doing it on my own. So we

Dr. Kimber:
have them.

Mandy:
I'm kinda creating a mini community before I do the mayor community, and that can be really helpful. Like, if you have a buddy who's caught the vision. I, I did I started a book club. I I was just in a season of initiating a lot of stuff, but I started a book club on the street. And, again, same way. I found 1 friend, And then we built from that, and that can be very helpful in community building just so you have a partner in it. Yeah. Really helpful.

Dr. Kimber:
I love that tip. I think that's a really, really helpful, and it it takes maybe some of the anxiety of what if no one shows, or am I alone here? And that's so powerful.

Mandy:
If no one shows up, then you have at least that 1 person you can laugh with and go, no. Right. And and and and and Pay pay attention. I mean, if this is a desire and maybe people are listening, they're like, yeah. I'm good. And then if but people think This is kind of a desire. You and you and I have talked about this a lot in our friendship, but cultivating space to pay attention, been that means doing nothing.

Dr. Kimber:
Yes.

Mandy:
Okay. Oh, I'm gonna jump in here. I'm gonna say no to this, but I'm gonna jump in here. And That's been really significant for me.

Dr. Kimber:
Yep. Building team. Yeah. Because we're limited. Our time is limited. So what can we say yes to that would just stretch us, but also be a place of goodness and joy and playfulness, and not every space needs to stretch us. I guess I'm just offering that in case we're all about pleasure. You know? Get that one thing.

Mandy:
Sure. Yeah.

Dr. Kimber:
Or vice versa. If you're all in the trenches all the time, where's that play, like, the board games or the yeah, running club.

Mandy:
That's interesting. I remember a number of years ago, I had a student, an international student Who had moved who had was had moved with a student had moved to the United States and was really trying to find community. And I remember him in one of my classes, and this is a number of years ago, saying to the group, okay. I'm starting a board game club, and I'll be in the student union if anybody would joined me. And I remember thinking, you go, like Yes. You know, and I followed up and I think he actually had a couple people from different classes come and, like so, you know, that was great. He had a board game. I mean, it's like, fantastic.

Mandy:
Been fantastic. Not you know? There's lots of ways to do it.

Dr. Kimber:
There are lots of ways. Yes. For sure. Well, Mandy, how can people get ahold of you? How can people find you?

Mandy:
How can people find me? I have a website, and I added my my family name. So it's www.mandy Osterhaus Ream, which is a mouthful.com, or Mandy Ream, oftentimes comes up on Instagram and stuff. So yeah. And it will be it will be

Dr. Kimber:
in the show notes too.

Mandy:
Yeah. Great. Great. Great. Yeah.

Dr. Kimber:
Yeah. Cool. Well, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for being here, And send us send me questions. Anyone want have a question that you want answered, send it my way. I would love to connect, love to facilitate answers for whoever's listening. So I wanna remind you, you are a sacred being, and you matter.

I Thought I Was Over This

Building Authentic Community with guest Mandy Ream [Friendship Series 2]

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