Episode 54: Psychiatry & Poetry with Dr. Frank Clark

Have you ever found solace in the rhythmic verses of a poem or the gentle brushstrokes of a painting? Dr. Frank Clark joins us to reveal the extraordinary synergy between psychiatry and the arts, and how this fusion enhances the therapeutic journey. Raised in Chicago, where culture thrived around every corner, Dr. Clark was imbued with an appreciation for the arts from an early age. As an adult outpatient psychiatrist and clinical associate professor, he brings the healing power of poetry into his patient sessions, offering a unique conclusion to each encounter. His approach is not just about medication or traditional therapy; it's about enriching the soul through the beauty of artistic expression. Imagine leaving your psychiatrist's office with a poem that resonates with your experience – that's the innovative care Dr. Clark champions.

Venturing into the realm of self-expression, we touch upon the profound effects of poetry and creativity on mental well-being. I, too, have found that writing poetry can be a lantern in the darkness of depression, a tool for navigating the tumultuous waters of mental health. And it's not just for adults – Dr. Clark's work with children's literature, laced with haiku and affirmations, aims to bolster the mental resilience and self-esteem of the younger generation. His efforts underscore the importance of nurturing the creative voice within each of us, at every age, to foster healing and personal growth. This episode is an ode to the human spirit and its capacity for recovery through the boundless realms of art and poetry.

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Transcript

Dr. Bob Boland: 0:02

Welcome to the mind dive podcast brought to you by the Menninger Clinic, a national leader in mental health care where your host, Dr. Bob Boland,

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 0:11

and Dr. Kerry Horrell. Twice monthly, we dive into mental health topics that fascinate us as clinical professionals, and we explore those unexpected dilemmas that arise while treating patients. Join us for all of this, plus the latest research and perspectives from the minds of distinguished colleagues near and far. Let's dive in.

Dr. Bob Boland: 0:43

Today we have Dr. Frank Clark. We've been trying to get him on I'm very excited about this day and a doctor let me talk about Dr. Frank heart. Frank Alexander Clark. He is a board certified adults outpatient psychiatrist at Prisma health upstate. He also serves as clinical associate professor at the University of South Carolina School of Medicine in Greenville. Dr. Clark received a Bachelor of Arts degree from Monmouth College in Illinois, and a Doctor of Medicine degree from Northwestern University. In addition to his psychiatric practice, Dr. Clark has held many leadership positions in national organizations including the American Medical Association, and the American Psychiatric Association. Dr. Clark is also a prolific poet, who has collaborated with composers and orchestras such as the South Carolina Philharmonic, and the wild, beautiful orchestra has published two children's books positively Haiku, illustrated affirmations and 17 syllables and positively haiku part two, Peace, Love discovery in 17 syllables, the books provide children with early exposure to positive affirmations using haiku poetry. I bet you're intrigued, right? I'm

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 1:52

just I'm obsessed.

Dr. Bob Boland: 1:55

Yes, well, but let's turn it back to you, Dr. Clark, and first of all, welcome, and thanks so much for doing this. Thank

Dr. Frank Clark: 2:01

you all for having me. It's a pleasure to be with you all this this morning. That's

Dr. Bob Boland: 2:05

great. You know, can you just tell us a little budget current psychiatry in the arts and you know how you became interested in both of these?

Dr. Frank Clark: 2:11

Absolutely. So I have a background in the arts. So when I think about why I went into psychiatry, I would have to harken back to the arts. So growing up in Chicago, Illinois, my mother, who's a retired public school teacher wanted me to have early exposure to the arts. And I'm thankful for for that exposure. So growing up, I did various forms of dance that included tap ballet and jazz. And I was also a musician growing up. So again, that early exposure to go into the Joffrey Ballet, just you know, so I played the piano, and I also played the flute. Okay, so real

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 2:51

quick twins, I played the flute and I was a tap and jazz. I didn't do ballet much, but tap and jazz were where it was at for me. So twin

Dr. Frank Clark: 2:59

kindred spirits. See, that's good stuff. So, you know, I have fond memories of going to see the Nutcracker. And with the Joffrey Ballet, on, you know, during Christmas season, I have a lot of fond memories of just going to the orchestra and in Chicago. And so when I think about psychiatry, I think about medicine as an art. And I think that psychiatry is one of those fields that we are very pleased to be able to explore our patients narratives. And I believe that each of our patients, they're a work of art. They've been through a lot throughout their lives. And so the combination of the humanities and psychiatry for me, have been, I've enjoyed it, because I've been able to implement some of the arts into my practice. And I feel like poetry is one of the ways that I can do that. I didn't start doing that. At the onset of my career. This has probably been more recently in the last probably three years. And I would say that the, the pandemic, the COVID pandemic was kind of set a fire for me to get back into doing what I love.

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 4:12

Has there been in your experience of doing this good support and space to be able to do that in psychiatry, like from both patients and from organizations like to intersect and weave in some of the art pieces with your work?

Dr. Frank Clark: 4:27

Absolutely. I feel like I've been very supportive by my peers. And my patients have enjoyed it. So one of the things that I've been doing so at the end of each of my sessions, I share some poetry with my patients. Some of it's my own poetry, but most of the time, it's poetry from some of my favorite poets, including Mary Oliver or Rumi or Morgan Harper Nichols, Langston Hughes. The list goes on. And I think When I first started doing that my patients were probably taken aback not in a negative way. But it was something new, you know, novel for them that they had not experienced in the past. And so I share with them when I, when I read poetry first I, I asked them, Is it okay if I, as we end the session, if I could share, share some poetry with him? And I've never had anybody declined that offer. But I follow up with telling them the why. And the why is that one, I have a love of poetry, but I believe in a integrated approach to psychiatry to mental health, or just health in general. And, you know, we talked about the different levels of the importance of physical activity and sleep and nutrition. Well, I think the art should be also one of those levels that we implement in terms of our treatment plans for patients. So that could be poetry, that could be looking at a piece of artwork, that could be playing a song, whatever that may be, I think it's important that we have those levels as part of the treatment plan. So usually, it's a short, you know, a short poem, and many of my patients have, you know, say that they really appreciate it that I feel like it's something else that they can leave with something that's tangible, something that they can read, reflect on, for the next time, and I often will make them a copy of the poem. And you know, as they're walking out and checking out, here you go, and we'll see you back in four weeks.

Dr. Bob Boland: 6:34

I just wanted to back up to though, because you know, what you're talking about sort of your background, the arts, you talked about music and, and dance and stuff. When When did you become interested in poetry?

Dr. Frank Clark: 6:43

That's a great question. So writing even? Yeah, I would say probably in medical school. And the background story on that is, I think most artists, all artists have a story. I think that a lot of artists that we know, whether it be in the music scene, or the poetry scene, have gone through their own mental health struggles, and I'm not immune for that. So when I was in medical school, I had my first major depressive episode. And I was struggling academically. And I had to find a way to heal. I'm a runner, I was I was a collegiate athlete, my prayer life, my faith as a Christian is important to me. But there was something else that I was missing. And I said, Wait a minute, let me tap into my creative side. And so I would sit at one of my favorite tea shops in downtown Chicago, Argo tea. And one day, I just decided that I need to explore more of me. And that's when I started writing poetry. And it was a way for me to let the pen do the talking for me all the things that I had been filling, especially feeling like a failure, given that I you know, it took me seven years to finish medical school, I had a full ride scholarship, I lost that scholarship. So there was a lot of things that imposter syndrome, just a lot of things that I was going through. And you know, obviously, it's a it was a bruise to the ego, you're you're seeing your classmates go on, that didn't help my depression. And so writing was therapeutic for me and still is, you said

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 8:18

that we're kindred spirits earlier as maybe a joke but kindred spirits, indeed, because there's so much about what you're saying that I'm resonating with. So one of Morgan Harper Nichols, first poetry books, all along you are blooming is one of my favorite books, it's littered with little posters. And I actually have made a practice of giving my patients, it's usually from that one there. He's showing it to other ones, too. But I've made it a practice to give many of my patients a copy from her books, copy of a poem from her books as a kind of as a discharge. And I read a little note on the back. And I've also read a lot of poetry in session, and not my own. I usually read from her books, or Mary Oliver. But one of the things that I think about when I do that is I tell them, I'll be really intentional about about, say, one reading and listening to poetry as a mindful activity. It's why I'll start groups or any groups with it at times, because it's a way to just close your eyes. Take a second, take some deep breaths, and listen and see what comes up for you in your mind. And to especially with poets like Morgan Harper Nichols, it's really interwoven with self compassion, because part of self compassion is common humanity, some of her poetry in that book. It's very clear she was in treatment, and she's talks about this on her Instagram. And like, there's one that even talks about what it feels like to be hopeless. And it's so poignant, and it's so profound. And a lot of what I tell my patients is like, Hey, this is I hope you know that someone else has known something about what you feel like right now. You're not alone, even in something as profound as hopelessness. And so to me it mean it just, it intersects so clearly with when people are in psychiatric crisis. One thing you You said that I really wanted to just like, emphasize sharing your own poetry. I've never done that. And I think that sounds really vulnerable. And one of the things I would imagine happens that you tell me is that in being an opening that door to vulnerability, I imagined, it also opens, and makes more space for your patients to vulnerably share their poetry, their artwork, and I have found that when my patients can share their poetry, or their writings, their artwork is so moving. And it's such a way to get to new parts of themselves. And I'm just thinking, I'm really, it's making me think like, Wow, I wonder if I should share my poetry? Because again, it's so is that feel so vulnerable? But it feels like again? Yeah, I wonder in your experience, if that's helped open the door to that.

Dr. Frank Clark: 10:40

No, I appreciate that. Question. And there's a patient that comes to my mind. Probably a month ago, I read some poetry and I decided to be vulnerable and and read one of my poems. And I think there was initially some trepidation on my part, right? Because none of my patients have, you know, I've never told any of my patients that I've gone through depression. And so when I read the poem, I said, Okay, let's just give it a go. But that opened the door are kind of what you're what you're alluding to, that opened the door for another conversation, and the conversation was that my patients say, you know, I used to write poetry. And I never knew that about her. You know, we've been seeing each other now for over two years, never knew she wrote poetry. And so she said, I have a poem that I, that I wrote, and I said, Well, would you mind next next time I see you, would you mind sharing it? And she said, I'd be happy to. And she shared it. And it was one of those moments that, you know, I think we have that therapeutic alliance, right? We aim to foster with our patients, but I feel like poetry and we know this from the literature. It's it connects people. It is one of those times that you talked about that we're both of us could just be mindful in the room. And I think it it evokes that shared sense of humanity. And when she wrote it, I was it was what she read, excuse me, it was beautiful. And so now, that has been, when I've seen her, I've asked her now have you written anything lately, and she says, I haven't. But it's also somewhat of an encouragement, I hope to her to please keep writing all of my mentors. Over the years, my family, they always say, you know, Frank, keep writing. And that's what I want my patients to do, whatever that may be, whatever their art form may be, I just want them to keep doing it. Right. It's like muscle memory. It helps.

Dr. Bob Boland: 12:39

I am curious to like, I'm sure we all know like a number of like, psychiatrists, psychologists who are you know, have to various talents. And you know, delve in the arts. Didn't know you did poetry Garrity. But it doesn't surprise me. But it's things like that. Most don't take it public and stuff. So I was just curious, like, what when did you go from being doing something privately for yourself to sort of becoming like a puppet, you know, a poet, a person who's actually doing it out there? Yes. Published publishing, presumably, presenting it live, I've seen you present. So I know you do. So

Dr. Frank Clark: 13:13

I decided to share my vulnerability. Probably when I self published my first book of poetry called the other side. And that was over 10 years ago. So when I was writing poetry at the tea shop, it was over probably 40 poems that I that I wrote, and they were just going to be for me, I had no intention on sharing again, because why would I do that? Especially with all the stigma, and then you're just putting yourself out there. But one of my classmates said, What do you have to lose? Like, why not? You should share this, what is the worst that can happen? And I reflected on that? And I said, Well, I guess the worst that can happen is that people, maybe they don't like it. I mean, what's the thing, that's the worst thing, the best thing is that maybe people could relate to what I'm sharing. And so you know, we weigh the pros and the cons. And for me, the pros outweigh the cons. And so that was the jumping off. point for me to say, let's get it out there. Now. i After that, I, the pen, I hadn't written anything for quite some time. And then COVID happen. George Floyd happened at a mod Aubrey and the political tension in our country happened. And that was, for me, the resurgence of creativity for me, also going through burnout at the time. And so I started, you know, letting the pen do the talking again, and I haven't looked back since.

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 14:47

I think about the times where my patients have shared their poetry with me or even friends or the and I read a lot of poetry and I feel like there's a way that even though poetry specifically uses language But I'm thinking also about arts, music, maybe even other ways in which language not not involved. It just puts some sort of like, experience, it brings something alive, I feel like inside of me that like, I really feel it in a different way than when someone just says it. And I feel like there's a spiritual component to that I feel like there. And I think that's why a lot of times the arts overlap with, like religion and spirituality, work. But there is something like so profound about it, there's something so like, connecting about it. Again, when I've had patients who are again, vulnerable enough to bring their artwork or their poetry in this session and read it. It's some of the times that like, I feel like my not to be trite, but like, My breath is taken away. I'm like, I don't even know what to say that was so poignant. And I feel like I understand and can feel your pain and like a new way in a way that I wasn't feeling before. But anyways, I'm just I'm, I'm just amusing because I'm still just very impressed that you've, you've shared your, your work with the world, especially his psychiatrist. Like, I just think that that's really, really important. I think that's really, really cool. And again, I think it's such good modeling to our patients that like, there. We need these spaces. I think everybody should find, and I feel like, I feel like probably a little known fact, I don't think we've talked to us on the podcast. You love music. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like you'd like. Right like that. Musics been one of your outlets, right.

Dr. Bob Boland: 16:22

I know, perform.

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 16:23

But you you go to more concerts and any 20 Something I know. Okay. Do you want to say more about that musics been an important part of your life? And yeah,

Dr. Bob Boland: 16:33

well, someday we will do a podcast about that. But today, we're talking with Dr. So I think we should go back to that. And I am

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 16:40

so curious on the ability loves. Right.

Dr. Bob Boland: 16:42

But I think one of the reasons I don't perform is that I don't think I devote the time to it, that I would take to be proud of what you do. Obviously, you do. And I'm so I'm just curious. I'm sorry. I think my questions are more practical than yours. But, but I am sort of curious, like, how do you find the time you're a busy doctor? zoomy. I know you're involved in a number of medical societies, I believe in the president to one of them now. And so you know, you're obviously otherwise very busy in your career, right? I know. I mean, I can imagine what the answers are. But I'd like to hear from you since you're actually doing it. No,

Dr. Frank Clark: 17:11

that's a great question. It's the probably one of the most common questions I get asked about how do you find the time? So my response to that question is, there are three, three guiding principles are things that are important to me, that guide everything that I do, and that's my faith, my family and Ferber, so faith family Ferber has has been my model. And I think it's important to be intentional about things, right. You know, we are like, I'm intentional about spending time with my wife and spending time with my daughter, I'm intentional about providing the best patient care that I can, you know, day in and day out. I'm intentional about my physical fitness, because I love exercise. And exercise helps me from, you know, I view exercise as my antidepressant. But I also view poetry as my antidepressant. So it isn't really work for me to write, if anything, it is the pieces of my puzzle that I know are going to keep me well. So when people say, you know, how do you find the time, I just say I make the time, because I think we make time for things that are important for us. And so now, does that mean that maybe I may delay charting, to write some poetry? Absolutely. There have been times when I could be catching up on notes, which I do. But I may take a moment. And instead of my office and close the door, and write some poetry, I'm probably going to be more productive later on. Because I've written that piece. Dislike, I'm intentional about taking my wellness walks at lunchtime, we have a beautiful, wooded area here, in our behind our clinic. And even if it's five minutes, I will go out, I will have that exposure to green spaces. And that's actually a muse for me, that inspires some of my poetry. So it's fun for me. And I think the last thing I would say about how do I find the time and make it part of my ministry? I think that being in a mental health professional, whether that be a psychiatrist or psychologist, advanced practice, or aipp, what have you. I think we have to go beyond the bedside. I think we have to go beyond the clinic walls to reach people. And so anytime that I'm writing, not only am I writing for myself, but I'm hoping that when I share these things with the community at large, that I'm pouring into them. I believe our patients pour into us and I believe that we can pour into others. I agree

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 19:50

with that so profoundly and clearly one of the ways that you've done that is through your books that are specifically geared towards introducing children to high IQ. I want to If a you want to tell us a little bit about why you chose to write these specific books, specifically focused on home, let's go back to the titles. The first one illustrated affirmations and then peace, love and discovery. Yeah. And why haiku? Yeah, and what and especially third point, why focus on children and children, these? Sure. So,

Dr. Frank Clark: 20:25

I have not a, I never did a fellowship. So I'm not a child and adolescent, psychiatrists, but I have a daughter. So my wife and I, we have one daughter, who is five years old now. And a lot of my poetry is inspired by her or just my interactions with her. When I wrote these books, the intrinsic motivation behind these books was one, I, I believe I was trying to channel my inner child, and I wanted to write some books that I thought, you know, these would be these would have been helpful when I was a kid. So I've had some, I have several Asus. And, you know, I think we all know the impact that adverse childhood experiences can have on us as adults. And I would have loved to have a book of positive affirmations, when especially dealing with some of the things that were going on in my, in my home environment. And so that was one reason. The second reason was that I believe our children who are the future, right, they, they need early exposure to positive affirmations, there's so much negativity in our world, there's so much bullying that kids are exposed to, and we know the impact that bullying can have on on a person's overall health. And I just think that kids, a lot of our children have low self esteem, social media tells them that they should be a certain way or what they're watching and, and who are they getting there? What's really filling their cup, you know, are we affirming them, they are affirming on themselves, do they really, truly love themselves. And so I felt that I could, you know, I could do be successful by writing a children's book of positive affirmations. But the flip of the other side of that is I get to introduce children to have them have early exposure to poetry, Haiku, I feel with positive affirmations. Haiku is a short form of poetry, it's three lines, 17 syllables doesn't necessarily have to be 17. But if you're teaching a kid, you could, you know, teach them to 575 pattern. And then when they're reciting these affirmations, the Haiku form of poetry is so short enough that they can memorize them versus, you know, more free verse or a longer, you know, a sonnet or other forms of poetry that could be longer. So, that was the motivation behind the book. But you know, not only are these their children's books, but I also feel like we, as adults can benefit from these books as well. And I've had a lot of feedback from parents that say, you know, when I'm reading this book to my children, I have to reread these affirmations because they're helpful for me as well. It's

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 23:07

a practice that I do at times, where especially patients I've worked with for a while, and I work with adolescents and young adults, I'll give them a children's book, at the end of our work together. One of our my colleagues, Sandy Sonning, she introduced me to clear weights, but what the road knows. And that is, I mean, again, it's a book that's written for kids, but it's so clear that like, anybody who is going through something I think, could benefit I think that's one of the beautiful things about children's books is they often these the messages from it, it can feel so poignant to people all throughout the span of life. And I find that using especially like a children's book, and sort of the simplicity of times even with like my young adults in my adolescence, they I think they feel really cared for and I feel like it touches something kind of, in their inner child world that that is so important. And I

Dr. Bob Boland: 23:53

just love the idea of introducing children early to poetry because it's so reflective and kind of counter to like, often the movement of what kids are learning now. I mean, there's this pressure on sort of like the hygiene, etc. If you don't learn Mandarin, by the time you're two, you probably wouldn't go to Harvard or something like that, or, or advanced mathematics or something. And so to give them something reflective, like that, just seems like it'd be so I mean, not only that, good for them, but you know, both for their mental health and creativity, all those things, you get the idea, I imagine.

Dr. Frank Clark: 24:22

No, absolutely. I think, you know, right. We want kids to be in touch with their feelings. And a lot of times kids don't know how they're feeling it's hard for them to express themselves. So poetry is one of those vehicles that you can say, hey, instead of, right, we've all seen patients that they are probably better at expressing themselves on paper than they are right in person. So why not teach them early of saying hey, you know, if you're, you know, you have a shy temperament, that's okay. You know, maybe you use the pen to express how you're feeling. You know, I even when I used to do inpatient psychiatry, I wouldn't encourage my patients to write something, write a letter to, you know, your significant other that, you know, you're having some discord with, or a family member. And I'll tell you, it was therapeutic for that, you know, they would, they would share it with me, they would read the letter and there was, you know, they would say, it was so good just to write down, how am I feeling, right? Because I think we have a lot of chatter that goes on in our brain, right, you know, constantly. And so sometimes getting rid of that chatter can be as simple as I think writing, you know, writing some poetry is to free ourselves of the trash that is, you know, consuming us,

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 25:36

even I'm thinking, you know, working, I work on our inpatient young adult and adolescent unit, and we do spend a lot of time doing creative work. And, you know, sometimes, I will say, with the young folks, it's less common than when I was on the adult unit, but like, there's always questions of like, well, why are we doing this? What does this have to do with me getting better from my depression, or my anxiety or my trauma? And a lot of times, you know, as somebody who focuses on mentalizing, you know, talk to him about, like, sometimes, it's easier to get in touch with something by using some sort of art, music, poetry, you know, I thinking of, there's a experiential group I do is one of with for my mentalizing group, where I asked them to think about an area where they're suffering like some some pain in their in their life. And I asked them to think about what would it look like, if you imagine it as like, a thing in front of you? What color would it be would be the texture? What would you know? How big would it be? And I find that even in that exercise, my patients were like, I never, I hadn't thought about it like that. But yeah, my grief feels like it would take up this whole room, it would completely suffocate any air in this space like, and just the way that like getting to, again, some of these pieces where all of a sudden, even their peers are like, Whoa, I didn't realize like just how, how that felt for you. Like, there's something about using these three creative parts of our mind, that help us get in touch with stuff that is otherwise hard to get in touch with. And then to watch, I think, also in regard to like, attachment, like, watch how it impacts other people. Watch how like, you can watch other peers like irrational like, whoa, I'm really, I'm really connected to that as you share it that way. Like, it feels like then like just to set such an important channel. I love the idea of introducing that to kids early, not when they're, they've developed a struggle or just when they're hurting, but like that they have these opportunities. And kids, of course, like they love to draw, they love to do these things like to be like, what does that mean for you? And how does that relate to your internal world? And yeah,

Dr. Frank Clark: 27:26

I think what you're speaking to here is they I mean, we all want that sense of belonging, we all want to feel connected, right? And so the arts, in my opinion, I think we all agree with this is that that's where that belonging can happen. Yes, right. You don't have to understand everyone's narrative. But oftentimes, we focus on our society about how different we are, but we have a lot of similarities is this human beings. And if we could focus more on the arts, that share it since going back to that shared sense of humanity, but not just humanity, humility, right. I think the arts, poetry reading poetry or listening to it or reciting that it evokes that humility, that posture of humility that will allow us to extend that olive branch to our to our neighbors and say, Wow, I never knew this about you, or I didn't, you know, this, this, this resonates with me. We come from two different environments. But wow, there's such similarities that I find with Bas. And with that, I also embrace the differences that we have. But it's all about love. And when we have that love and sense of belonging, we can move mountains, and I think poetry does that.

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 28:42

One, can I share a quick story? I was like, actually asking thoughts. I was just recently at the conference of medicine and religion. And one of the presentations that I went to was so poignant to me. It was a woman who, she's a chaplain, and she studies chaplaincy, but she also studies music. And she presented on using music at the bedside for dying patients, and specifically using and I forget the word but like stringed instruments, like harps, and guitars. Anyways, there was a specific word for it, that I remember one of the quotes that she said was using the music and just sitting at the bedside with folks who are dying was a way to say, I see you and I'm with you to these people in these moments. And I just thought that was so profound this idea that like it's these people are passing away that people would sit with them and just play music

Dr. Bob Boland: 29:38

and it speaks to me why I don't know. And it does feel

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 29:42

I mean, it feels like a you'd have to tolerate a lot of grief and like a lot of pain but

Dr. Bob Boland: 29:46

like just a superstition that the last song you hear is what you'll hear through eternity is you really are Yeah, right. And so like I was almost in a car accident once you might almost die I didn't die obviously. But my thought as I thought it might die was kind of like, oh my God not holding him.

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 30:00

I, even if you're joking, you kind of believe that

Dr. Bob Boland: 30:04

kind of we believe that anyway, but back to you. But I was hoping with that time left that you know, we can hear some of your poetry, you might sort of share some with us. Sure,

Dr. Frank Clark: 30:13

be happy to so much. So this is one, call it timely hold on to today. Or when today and life goes to sleep, with no promise of seeing the rising of the sun, hold on to today, for where the day goes. Tomorrow is not far behind. Praying for a second chance to shine, focus on the now for when the now ceases, near is the end of our time, beckoning us to forgive and love one another. Focus on the now for where the now moves, death follows closely. urging us to live with purpose and desire.

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 31:01

Thank you so much for sharing that with us. Gosh, wow. See these those moments? I feel like poetry really speaks to something than me that I just like, connected. Dr. Clark, thank you not only for coming and talking to us, because again, you know, I alluded to this maybe at the beginning, but I think especially in our field that can be not pushed back. But like making time for this as a really a healing part of the work we do feel so critical. I think it is so healing. And so thank you for your work with your patients and introducing and thinking about poetry with them and for the work that you've written and they're coming out and talking to us about it.

Dr. Frank Clark: 31:38

Not to her that to her or not to Bolden I appreciate you having me on and for the opportunity to share my work and creativity and I hope that everyone will tap into their creativity because the world needs it. Where

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 31:54

can our listeners find your Haiku books and other poetry books on Amazon?

Dr. Bob Boland: 31:59

Right?

Dr. Frank Clark: 31:59

They are available on Amazon. And we just had my colleague Dr. Zeta Javid, and I just released a new children's book. It's not Haiku, but it's called the power to act. Doctor. Dr. Edie is a PGY to rising PGY three psychiatrist at our program here in Greer, South Carolina. She's interested in the Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, but she helped with the illustration ideals for the books. So it's called the power to act. And it encourages kids to have that early exposure to stand up for what they believe in and different principles. So but all of the books are available on Amazon. Wonderful. And it comes with music, too. I should I should also say they come with music, so even

Dr. Bob Boland: 32:43

better. All right. Well, thank you so much for being with us today. Once again, we've been listening to Dr. Frank Clark. Talk to us about psychiatry and poetry. We're your hosts. I'm Bob Boland and

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 32:54

Kerry Horrell and thanks for diving in. The mind dive podcast is presented by the Menninger Clinic. If you're curious about the professional experiences of mental health clinicians, make sure to subscribe wherever you listen.

Dr. Bob Boland: 33:08

For more episodes like this, visit www dot Menninger clinic.org.

Dr. Kerry Horrell: 33:12

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