The Prolific Hub Podcast
The Prolific Hub Podcast is a digital archive of all things life, personal development, spirituality & creativity.
The Prolific Hub Podcast
Ep. 51 | A Free Woman's Journey to Love & Liberation: In Conversation with EbonyJanice Moore
What does it mean to be a "free woman on a love journey"?
Join us as we sit down with the extraordinary EbonyJanice Moore, a Hip-Hop womanist scholar, theologian, minister, author, and educator. In this episode, we'll hear firsthand about EbonyJanice's journey as a thought leader, emphasizing the value of genuine intellectual engagement in a world crowded with bite-sized content. We'll discuss her philosophy of being a master dreamer and the importance of thoughtful engagement in our fast-paced digital era. Whether you are familiar with her work or new to her ideas, this conversation promises to be both enlightening and inspiring! Tap in as we explore the rich tapestry of EbonyJanice's work, and the powerful messages she brings to the world.
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More from EbonyJanice:
- Visit ebonyjanice.com
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For more episodes on spirituality, dreaming, resting & liberation, listen to:
- Ep. 26 | Dream, Rest & Play ft. Colored Girls Liberation Lab Founder, Jenn Roberts
- Ep. 27 | Soul Searching with Brittnie Demosthene, Founder of The Soul Seekers Club
- Ep. 31 | Sensuality, Spirituality & Creativity ft. Lyvonne Briggs
- Ep. 37 | Wellness for Black Women ft. Aseanté Renee
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Hey friends, welcome back to the show. I'm so thrilled and so excited today to be in conversation with the one and only Ebony Janice Moore. Ebony Janice is a womanist scholar, a theologian, a minister, author, an educator. She is a Capricorn queen and a manifester, and I loved our conversation. Ebony Janisse has created and developed such a huge, incredible body of work, everything from the Free People Project to her book All the Black Girls Are Activists, to Dream Yourself Free Black Girl Mixtape. She's been a guest on several podcasts. She's also had her own podcast multiple. One of them that I'm truly fond of, even all these years later, is Casually Brilliant, and I'm just so honored to have the time and the space to talk to you, evany Janisse, today. So, without further ado, let's jump into the conversation. Hi everyone, welcome back to the Prolific Hub podcast. I'm your host, aaliyah Cheyenne, and I'm so honored today to be joined by the incredible Ebony Janice Moore. Hi, ebony Janice.
EbonyJanice Moore:Thank you for having me, aaliyah Cheyenne, we'd love a first little name.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yes, we do. I'm so excited to have you on the show. I have, as we just talked about, I've been doing my homework, I've been learning all about just your work, and I actually was introduced to you earlier this year because I had an opportunity to speak with incredible LaVon Briggs, and LaVon mentioned you in that conversation as well and I was like, okay, I need to look into Ebony Janisse and learn more all about her. So what an honor and how exciting it is to be in conversation with you now today. So, before we jump in, I would love to turn it over to you to share a little bit more about who you are in the world today and introduce yourself.
EbonyJanice Moore:Who am I? My name is Ebony Janisse. I go by Ebony Janisse, which means you should call me Ebony Janisse, and that really is my real life tagline. That has come to me because experience says that you can tell people your name and they will still decide they want to call you whatever they want to call you. So there's that, and I am a free woman on a love journey. That is a very real truth, very real and true for me. I guess the work that I do in the world is I'm a writer and a thought leader. Are you allowed?
EbonyJanice Moore:to call yourself a thought leader yes, I, I.
Aliya Cheyanne:That's like I'm the. I'm from the non-profit world. That's what I love to say.
EbonyJanice Moore:It's like it's like, if I want to call myself that, well, the reason why I would call myself a thought leader is because I am contributing to an actual ethic around what it means to really think, I think in this time, Because we have this social media, focused Google centered, you know learning Everything is YouTube. You know Pinterest. You know learning Everything is YouTube. You know Pinterest. You get your news from X Twitter threads, et cetera, et cetera, and so there's teaching how to think.
EbonyJanice Moore:Isn't really a major part of our education system or process at this point. It really is. Just you could just Google search it, you could just go straight to your phone and find that answer and go from there and you don't really have to process it. You don't really have to right Like you could have a thought and have not thought, and so I think that calling myself a thought leader isn't necessarily me trying to be like I'm in charge of all of this, but it's really me just saying that I recognize myself as one of very few people certainly my peers and I think are thinking in this way as well but one of very few people I feel like who are consistently like did you think that thought through? And who's a part of your intellectual lineage. Can you tell us who else has been thinking that, or who have you been thinking that with?
EbonyJanice Moore:And so so, yeah, so a writer, a thought leader and a master dreamer, and that is who I am for today.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yes, I love all of that. What you said is so important, especially because we're having so much conversation about how, like in our education system, the babies are just not reading to the point that they need to be reading, or like not comprehending to the point that they need to be reading, or like not comprehending to the point that they need to be comprehending. A lot of adults don't have the comprehension skills that they should have, or like critical thinking skills that they should. So, yeah, that's very important.
EbonyJanice Moore:So Very, very important. My major grad school experience, honestly, was, I feel like I really learned how to think about what I was thinking about. I experienced a lot of trauma in grad school and you know all the way space, of course, so, but one of I feel like one of the most profound learning, you know, experiences that I had was that I did have an instructor who really was like this whole class is literally not about right answers, wrong answers nothing. This whole class is literally not about right answers, wrong answers nothing. This whole class is about how are you thinking, about what you are thinking, and that informs so much of the way that I exist now. So, yeah, so many people just don't have critical thinking skills. Exactly what you just said, and I don't even want to critique that in a super shady way. I really just want to say that.
Aliya Cheyanne:Do you know that?
EbonyJanice Moore:you can be thinking about stuff. Do you know that you can have a thought and you still didn't think about it?
Aliya Cheyanne:That is a thing.
EbonyJanice Moore:Let's go, my babies, let's start thinking.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yes, and so much in this era of just regurgitating information that we are aligned to.
Aliya Cheyanne:There's a lot of that too, so you're doing very important work.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yes, I would love to just dig into a little bit more of your background for folks who might not be familiar with your work, your trajectory. Something that's come up a lot in your work in the past is just your identification around womanism and what womanism means to you. But something that also is so interesting to me, it's your experience growing up in the Black church, your work as a minister and just how those two come together, because oftentimes I think more women are coming into themselves now and undoing a lot of conditioning. But historically it's been a little tough for Black women in the Black church under patriarchy, under misogynoir and all of these different things, and I love that you embody these two different identities as a minister and as a womanist and how those two kind of come together. So I would love to hear a little bit more about your experience in that space and, for folks who may not be aware of what womanism is, for you to share a little bit more about that and how those things have shaped you and saved you.
EbonyJanice Moore:I love this question actually today, specifically because just this morning I realized that there is an ancestor whose name I might cry ancestor whose name I need to lift in my prayer time and in the South, who somehow never, ever made me small, ever. I literally was born and raised in this church and certainly church trauma and you know all the things that we can say about our experience growing up in the Black church. But Pastor Henry used to let me get away with stuff that I don't know. Any other elder Black male preacher would have let a young girl just go up and take the mic and start prophesying, or the way that he never caused harm to me personally. My own personal story is that he never caused harm to me. He was always doing intentional work. I feel like to enlarge me and to create more space for me.
EbonyJanice Moore:And the other thing that I think is important in the context of this question about Pastor Henry is that I grew up in a church in the Baptist faith and the Southern Baptist. You know the Southern Black Baptist kind of experience, even though I grew up in the Midwest, it's a whole bunch of older Black people from the South right that are in charge of this, my Christian formation and at the time Baptists were not letting in the 80s, you know, when I was growing up, baptists were not letting women preach in the pulpit. Yet my church was the first church in the city, you know, full of Black churches. My church was the first church in the city to have women in the pulpit Not preaching, you know, like ordained ministers, not just a special speaker right, which is what they would call. A lot of the women in ministry, you know at that time Like she just every other title, shepherdess, evangelist, every other title, but you know, in the ministry and so there's something and that's Minister Ella Pearl McDonald and Minister Marietta Johnson.
EbonyJanice Moore:Like I can remember this very consciously as a very little girl, like seeing these women preaching in the pulpit and how that impacted me as a young girl who had certainly already been teaching and started teaching Sunday school like five, six years old, but started preaching from the pulpit at like eight years old, and Pastor Henry was the one who allowed I'm doing quote, fingers right Allowed me to. My first sermon was called what in hell do you want, and as a young girl I really just remember enjoying being able to repeat. So what in hell do you want? And you know. So I'm giving those examples really just to say that that is a major part of my honorable ancestors, who are very intentional about, like, what's happening in my life on an ongoing basis. I can feel them, I can see them, I can you know? I'm experiencing them.
Aliya Cheyanne:And.
EbonyJanice Moore:Eddie Henry came up and I was like I need to say your name more often. So it's such a perfect question, because how did I become a womanist? There was space for it when I was a little girl, you know there's a. There was space for me to really just flourish. There was space for me to ask questions. There was space for me to have my feelings hurt and say it out loud. There was space for that, and I think that. So womanism very quickly, and I'm done with this part of the sermon. Remember I said that I grew up in a Baptist church. Baptist ministers are the main ones who will be like and this sermon is about to be over and it'll be 30 more minutes of sermon, but that's not going to be me today. Womanism is a term that was coined by Alice Walker in her book In Search of Our Mother's Gardens, and it's a four-part definition. It's very, it's prose is very poetic. A woman is, is, uh, loves spirit, loves the moon, loves dance, uh, not a separatist, except periodically for times of health.
EbonyJanice Moore:Uh, a womanist is. Uh will look to the example, says a daughter says to her mother mama, I'm going to Canada and I'm taking you and several other slaves with me. The mother says in response you wouldn't be the first right. So there's a lot of intergenerational spirit, a lot of stuff happening there. But part four of the definition says womanism is to feminism as purple is to lavender. And so a lot of Black women at that time this book came out in the 80s a lot of Black women at that time really moved into and leaned into that definition because it felt like calling yourself a Black feminist is certainly appropriate to distinguish that.
EbonyJanice Moore:I am not. When you think about feminism, this is not that, this is Black feminism. And then there's this group, these group of women who were like I would like to not be identified as a feminist at all because mainstream or white I'm doing quote fingers again white feminism is not a thing that I want to be in relationship with at all, because ultimately what I'm saying is womanism is the deeper shade of purple. Womanism is the deeper, the deeper shade of feminism. So when I came to womanism, it really was as a language that I could identify with. It really was, because I heard Dr Renita Weems, I heard Dr Monica Coleman, I heard these women preaching and teaching and started reading their texts and I was like, literally, this is me, this is my life.
EbonyJanice Moore:I had always been a womanist. I didn't have the language for it, but there was space created for me, thankfully, by a Black man who and it makes sense to me you know he wasn't a super educated man at all, but I know for sure he probably would have been friends with Dr James Collins, who was, you know, the father of the Black liberation theology movement. I know that he felt very intentional about our Blackness and community and that our Black experience was giving us a different Christian experience than what other non-Black people were experiencing. And so, yeah, so, just in closing to that, really I had space when I was a child and then when I got the language for it, it was just seeing these women who identified as womanist. That really spoke to me and I'm like, well, yeah, that's me. Sign me up for that title.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yes, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that and like, what a wonder and what a sweetness that is to be able to like, recall that experience and just the timing of thinking about. Yes, that's so wonderful.
Aliya Cheyanne:Thank you so much for sharing that. I feel like I've also identified with the language of womanism and maybe the label, before I even knew that's what it was called. But I got that introduction in like undergrad and I was just like the history of white feminism and how it was up in life. Right now I don't feel included. I don't feel part of that and womanism gave me that language. So I love you sharing that experience. So thank you for that. I would love to talk to you just a little bit more about some aspects of that. So you have shared a number of things. One of the things that you just mentioned is just your altar and that's language.
Aliya Cheyanne:I've talked about a lot on the show in the past. I have a small one. I'm always learning more. But something you've also talked about in your work is just spiritual hygiene and maybe not in that language, but just around. What are the sort of self-care tools or power tools or things that you have in your back pocket that you can lean on to make sure that you're clear and you're focused and you're centering certain aspects of your experience, and I would love to talk to you a little bit more about just that. Some of the power tools that you've mentioned are around meditation. Some of them have been around visualization, and I love visualization, I love daydreaming, all of those things. So can you talk a little bit more about what some of your practices have looked like for you and how they've supported you along your journey?
EbonyJanice Moore:I am here because of my power tools. Literally we are spiritual beings having this earth experience. I can't properly cite where that came from, but I know you've heard that before.
Aliya Cheyanne:Oh, yes, I say that all the time too.
EbonyJanice Moore:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so what's important to note is that the spirit is forever. This body is very finite, it's very temporary, and so that is number one. The second thing that I think is important to note when thinking about actually having spiritual tools, and how important it is, is that everything that was created was created by our imagination. First it was created in the spirit. First it existed. You don't even have to have a supernatural God belief system to understand that in order for something to exist, somebody had to think it. But if you thought it and it didn't exist, that means that you had to think it. But if you thought it and it didn't exist, that means that you had to use your imagination, or you had to dream it. Or, right for me, my truth system causes me to believe that there is a supernatural download that even gave me that unction, that idea that you know I want to.
EbonyJanice Moore:I want to build a car. Cars never existed, but I'm thinking it should have wheels. I can see it. It has to come from somewhere. And so the tool of if you could get that for yourself, that you're a spiritual being, having this earth flesh experience, and understand that as a spiritual being, that every single thing that is first was not, it came from nothing. And then you know we created it somehow, maybe you, maybe you didn't create. You know a desk or a chair, or you know the bookshelf, right, but, but somebody did. And then now the rest of us, we just go and rebuild, or you know, we buy it from the store, whatever, whatever. And so think about that as it pertains to your life. There was, whatever is today, was not yesterday, and so today you woke up using your spiritual tools, whether you've been using them for good or for not.
EbonyJanice Moore:You woke up using your spiritual tools and you said I'm going to have a great day, I'm going to, and then you just started telling the day what it was going to be. And then you started walking in that and some of that is habitual. You just roll out of bed, you go to the bathroom, you do your hygiene, you go get some coffee, whatever. Some of it does have to be like. I haven't seen this yet, but I'm going to imagine that today is good because I'm going to do like this, like this, like this, like this and like this. So you're creating it. So your imagination, you know, is literally creating what your day is and or the habitual behavior. That is not great, you know, if you know we'll judge it as not great. Is you still been using your spiritual tools and you woke up in the morning and you was like everybody, I'm having a bad day already. You know these kids is getting on my nerves. They done. My neighbors make it too much noise. You know dah, dah, dah, whatever. And so you create it. You, it wasn't there, but then you started to create it with your language and in your imagination. You continue to flesh it out and you continue to lean into it and you and then you felt it, and so your. So your body doesn't really care whether or not your feelings are factual, your body just cares about your feelings. So your body started having, you started having a backache and you got a headache. Now, right. And so we are creating with our imagination, whether we are doing it intentionally towards our highest good or whether we're doing it intentionally towards the ashiest version of ourselves.
EbonyJanice Moore:And so often, you know, what you've very likely either seen me say or heard me say is y'all got no spiritual. You know, y'all just wake up in the morning and just be like blah, a blob. You don't, you don't have anything that keeps you on track towards. You know, continuing to check in with you, right, because I could wake up in the morning and say I'm going to have a great day, and then my mama could text me something wild and I could and and or call me and just harass me out of my ease. And so what I have to do because I know that that is possible is I have to have this little tool called a boundary, and, and I have to, and so. So one of my boundaries is that I don't talk at all to people.
EbonyJanice Moore:Unless I choose to right, I do not answer the phone, I do nothing, nothing, nothing before 11 am because which is I'll acknowledge the privilege of that I work for myself so I can say like I got the morning, I give myself a morning, and I wake up really early too, like 5, 36 o'clock, myself, the whole morning, to be like I can ease into my day. I can pray, I can go to the altar, I can do my journaling, I can sit down and just daydream for a minute. I can, you know, have my coffee, my tea, whatever, whatever, whatever. And that way, by the time, because of that boundary, that way by the time 1101 hits and my mama called me to harass me, I'm so seated in myself and the stories that I've told myself and imagined for my day, that is nothing, it's very little. I don't say nothing, but it's very little that anybody could do to knock me out of that Right.
EbonyJanice Moore:So, having spiritual tools like boundaries, like prayer, like, maybe, fasting, like journaling, meditation, visualization, affirmations, romance novels, you know whatever it is to make sure that you are fully seated as yourself. And when I say seated as yourself, I mean you know what it feels like to be like anxious, like tightened up in your body sitting forward you're not even fully seated. But when you're fully seated you get to, and as soon as I just sat back, I just kind of took a little breath on it. It wasn't even on purpose, it just came up out of me Like it just releases from you.
EbonyJanice Moore:So when you're fully seated, imagine what it feels like to live into that, to create strategies for yourself, that even sometimes I have alarms go off to remind me mind your business. I'm so serious. Sometimes it's irrelevant, but sometimes that 12 o'clock mind your business alarm goes off and I'm like I was over here in my nephew's business over here letting people pull me into their own stories, or I've been scrolling on social media for too long and that ain't my business, right. So, yes, creating strategies to make sure that I even check in with myself throughout the day around, like are you still you? Are you still? Do you know? On the, on the path towards what you said you were doing, you know?
EbonyJanice Moore:where you said and yeah, y'all got no tools, y'all just, all y'all got is mad on facebook. Every day we have to do something different.
Aliya Cheyanne:We have to do something better. Yes, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. I think so much of those tools and so much of what you shared really leans into something you've said before in your work. I've heard you say in the, either on a podcast or maybe on your Instagram I'm just reminding folks that we are the manifested word of God and I feel like imagination ties so heavily into that because it's going into that space where we create new things. So I just love all of that, and even just your intention around setting boundaries around your morning and how you lean into your tools to make sure you're setting yourself up for whatever success looks like to you for your day. I think is so important as well. So thank you for sharing that.
EbonyJanice Moore:If I could really get people to believe that, that the there's a. I think it's a. It may be in a saying from Ifa, or it may be some spiritual wisdom. I really don't know exactly the source of this, what I'm about to say, but I've heard it before that a cup of God is still God. And this idea came from this conversation where somebody was like do you understand that a cup of the ocean is still the ocean and out of that birth, a cup of God is still God? And so if you understand that, you are a cup of God. So the Bible says, which I pull from many sacred texts but one of the things that the Bible says is in the beginning was the word and the word was God.
EbonyJanice Moore:How were you created by a word? So in the beginning was the word and the word was God. How were you created by a word? So in the beginning was the word and the word was God. Who are you? Yes, this is not to suggest that you are the almighty creator. This is to say you are a couple of guys. You are the literal manifestation of God's word in this flesh, in this body, word in this flesh, in this body, and so every single part of God's DNA and capacity is inside of you.
EbonyJanice Moore:Now, this human experience really waters it down. So you're so busy being human that you forgot to be a cup of God. Yes, so busy, you know, feeling your feelings, whether they're factual or not, that you forgot your power and authority. If God spoke a word and then things came to pass, you could just look back over your life at all the things that you said for your highest good or for you Actually. So how much your word has been so powerful? Yes, you're right, you're unworthy. Yes, you're right, you're unworthy. Yeah, you're not. But if you say so, be it. Say, do it Right, and so that is such a difficult thing, particularly for those of us who grew up Christian. It's so difficult for us to really process being a cup of God or even this idea of like you are.
EbonyJanice Moore:The word of in the beginning was the word and the word was God right. There's like it can be said right there in a text and you're still like God. And that is a very human cop out. You know to not be right If you're like I'm just human. You know God knows my heart. Yeah, god does know your heart because your heart is God right. So, like your hands, your mouth, your body, your reflection, one singular reflection of a portion of God's personality, of God's being, of God's beauty.
EbonyJanice Moore:And if you don't show up, I'm done preaching the Bible say that the earth is groaning out with labor pains, waiting for the revealing of the sons of God. The earth is in literal pain waiting for you to show up, but you're so busy. I'm just human. I ain't Jesus Christ, okay, but you're you. You have the same responsibility as Christ to show up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, come with God. And still, god feels so important and I really feel like if I could really get people to understand that, understand how beautiful and and enlarging and powerful. It is to realize that you are not helpless, that your mouth, that your dreams, your imagination, your fantasy, you know, literally, is helping to create and co-create your experience and your existence. We could change the world, and I don't mean, you know, as a cute little platitude.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah, that's a very real thing. I've even seen that in my own personal life, when how I speak about myself or a situation or others, how that plays out, whether for good or for bad, based on my disposition, my attitude and what I'm saying. So and the karma be instant sometimes too, if it's not for my highest good self.
EbonyJanice Moore:Yes, that's so true.
EbonyJanice Moore:Spirit is really just like okay, so be it, it's up to you. It's so neutral. The response is the manifestation is so neutral, even saying good, bad. That's the reason why I'm saying your highest self, or High is good, or Georgia High is good, so neutral, okay, this is never going to work out for me. Okay, yeah, right, thankful, thank you. You know.
EbonyJanice Moore:Thankfully, we get to experience the grace, you know, of God and I consider the grace of God like my grandmother's prayers. You know, like I'm over here saying I can't. My grandmother was in 1983 speaking into my future saying I absolutely will. Or my grandmother got to her prayers, get, you know, often, that's the crazy guy, right, my grandmother's prayers get answered and I get canceled out because, girl, shut the hell up. You know, like you don't even know what you're talking about. I can't Shut up up, we're already covered. And then there's still a way that I could, you know, undo the powerful, you know manifestation of what my grandmother, what my mother, what my elders have already spoken into existence for me. I could undo it by being like I'm not good enough and yes, yes, you know, credible enough. Meanwhile, meanwhile, again, my grandmothers are in the eternal. Like, shut the hell up, please. You're undoing generations of deep prayer and you know spiritual work to make sure that your silly self was in position to be able to do it and you sit over there saying I ain't good enough.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah, oh, my goodness, what a perspective shift. Perspective shift, that's so true. Thank you for that. I want to pivot slightly, but not completely, because you yourself have written a word, because I want to talk a little bit about all the black girls are advocates, activists. All the black girls are advocates, activists. All the Black girls are activists. I'm so sorry Because I've been diving into all the Black girls are activists and I've been enjoying it thoroughly and it's so interesting to me reading it and reflecting on some of the things that you've shared in the past, because I know you've shared in the past that when you set out to write it, you really wanted to write a romance novel because of your love of romance novels.
Aliya Cheyanne:But I know it wasn't your intention necessarily for it to become what it did. But I also view it as just a love letter to Black women and Black girls and I think in its own way, that is still. It may not be the romance novel we think about. In its own way that is still. It may not be the romance novel we think about, but that's still a romance novel and I think you've written one like a collection of love letters in one incredible book. So I would love to talk a little bit more about. You know that body of work and you know what kind of led you to the pivot along the way. Like you set out with one idea, you wrote something a little different, but still was a love letter, still was a romance novel. I would love to just hear more about that journey and process for you.
EbonyJanice Moore:Yeah, it's really simple. I started kind of just brain dumping what was going to happen in this story and realized there was so much theory that I really wanted to flesh out right. So, for example, really this book was kind of, if it would have become a romance novel, it was going to be loosely based on a relationship that I was in at the time. So there's this period, there's this moment that happens in this particular relationship where this man, my feelings get hurt. I'm feeling so much because I used to say he hurt my feelings, but my feelings get hurt because I realized it.
EbonyJanice Moore:Okay, I love that my feelings get hurt and he leaves for the day. We were long distance at the time, so I was in Harlem visiting him. He leaves for the day to go to work and I buy myself a plane ticket and pack my things because I don't have to put up with this. I'm going home Same.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah, okay.
EbonyJanice Moore:So he comes home from work and you know we talk about it and he's like well, I'm so sorry, I didn't realize that that's what happened and it's a very genuine apology. And he sees that I'm really still leaving and he's like you're still going to leave. And I say, yeah, I am.
EbonyJanice Moore:This isn't what I said at the time, but what I was doing was I was teaching him a lesson. You don't treat me like that. So now, here you go. Now you got to be without me for the rest of this trip, so I go home. I don't talk to him. That was a Wednesday night. I don't talk to him Thursday. No, I left that Thursday. I don't talk to him Friday. I don't. It's Saturday morning. I get a phone call from this number I know it's him, but I deleted him out of my phone because I'm really that serious about this and he says I answer the phone and I'm like hello, not like like I know who this is.
EbonyJanice Moore:Like hello, and he starts talking and dah, dah, dah dah, whatever, and he's, and he's. He's a french west african.
EbonyJanice Moore:so it's like you know from molly this french accent, french, african accent, so he's like, he's like sweet, sweet, sweet, whatever. And then he could tell I kind of have like a little bit of an attitude still and he says did you delete my number from your phone again? Because, because I had to delete that again. Yeah, and I said yes. And he says can you please stop doing that? It really hurts my feelings Because I have deleted that again. Yeah, and I said yes. And he says can you please stop doing that? It really hurts my feelings when you do that. And that kind of like maybe one of the most emotionally mature experiences that I had ever had with a man before. You know the grown man Like to just be that vulnerable and that transparent about the fact that when you do that it hurts my feelings, can you stop that? And I want to give a little bit of that backstory because I feel like there are a lot, of, a lot of people, particularly a lot of black women, that can really identify with this. Oh yeah, that I really have been doing the work of keep your heart. Three steps. Keep your heart. These boys are smart. Like I was kind of thug life when it came to you ain't gonna hurt me, and I was so like hard like a wall to protect myself, because I didn't know if it was possible to really be safe in a relationship for real. For real that, you know, I could really be held and witnessed and and feel my feelings and be vulnerable.
EbonyJanice Moore:And so I started looking for a coach, because I'm a coach's coach kind of girl, like if you don't know how to get through this and you've never done this before, you don't have a like an example of it, you probably need a coach, you know. So I started looking for a coach and I wanted to be a black woman so bad and I cannot find the kind of like what I'm looking for specifically, I cannot find a black woman and I end up working with this white woman. And I'm very against this in the beginning, because I'm paying some money with a capital and I'm giving this white woman this money. I wish that it could be a Black woman and let me tell you it needed to be a white woman, because what happened was I realized that Black women were not even. We didn't even have the language that this white woman, it was just her casual language and like. So I came to the language of. I really want a chance to be soft. That's what happened, like when we set our goals.
EbonyJanice Moore:The more she dug, the more I realized, like, what I want is a chance to be soft, because I realized that if I could have been soft in that moment with my ex, in that experience that we're having that day when I was still in New York, if I could have been soft, if I could have been vulnerable, if I could have whimpered, if I could have been like it hurt, but I didn't feel like I could do that. I didn't know if it was safe for me to do that. I could just go to like oh, I didn't feel like I could do that. I didn't know if it was safe for me to do that. I could just go to like oh, I don't have to put up with this, I'm just going to go home, you ain't going to treat me like that, and I'll show you.
EbonyJanice Moore:And was telling me about how her and her partner one of their major issues is that she's messy and he's not, and so she's like he'll come in behind me and it'll be like a fork on a sink after I've been cooking and they'll be like can you make sure? On the counter and he'll be like can you make sure that the fork in the sink? And she's like this has happened several, several times. And then one day I decided, instead of getting into my head and being like don't talk to me like that she said, I decided to just stay in my heart. She says so I just stay in my heart and I'm feeling my feelings and it really makes me sad that he is like telling me to put this fork in the sink. So she says I go upstairs and I start sobbing, like I just crawl into a little ball and I just start sobbing. Now, meanwhile, I'm listening to this story that I'm paying money to hear, yes, and I'm thinking get to the point, girl.
Aliya Cheyanne:Like that fork in the seat girl. That's all you gotta do.
EbonyJanice Moore:Like that fork in the seat and then and she's just in her story where he comes upstairs and he just holds her and just lets her cry and whatever. And then they talk through it. And when we got off the phone or when we got off that call, I was still a little annoyed. And then I thought about it I'm going to cry about putting a fork in his face.
EbonyJanice Moore:Yeah, I want like I don't even know what is. It's not a thing that I would naturally do and to a certain extent, even all these years later, it still feels a little silly to me to think about, you know, crying in a sink. But what I know about this white woman, and the kind of privilege about crying about putting a fork in a sink, is that she has access to a vulnerability and the possibility to call in something to her that I never had access to, because it never crossed my mind to cry about putting a fork in the sink. Right that here I am in this relationship with this man who, certainly to this day probably, if I cried about the fork in the sink, would absolutely hold me, make a safe space for me, make vulnerable, you know, make it okay for me to be vulnerable, but for so many of us, which is the reason why I knew that I needed to flesh out the idea of softness.
EbonyJanice Moore:I can't just write this romance novel about being soft, because a lot of us would read that and misinterpret it. Look at the way that we talk about softness on social media. We're not talking about the same thing, right? So how could I talk about softness, particularly as a Black woman, black heterosexual woman in relationship with a Black man. How could I talk about softness without all of our trauma coming up in our shared relationship with Black men? How could I talk about this without all the homies being like girl, give me a break. These niggas need to da-da-da-da-da, whatever.
EbonyJanice Moore:Meanwhile, there is something that happens when I'm fully seated in myself, when I'm doing my regulating nervous system work, that I co-create the possibility for myself to be held, for myself to be being able to be vulnerable, for myself to be able to success something on the other side of my tears that I that I for generations have never it's never even crossed my mind that there was something on the other side of those tears, because I'm so socialized into hold it together, be strong, don't be vulnerable, don't let nobody play. You don't be letting nobody play in your face. You a strong girl. You dah, dah, dah, whatever. And so I'm missing out on something.
EbonyJanice Moore:Before I wrote the book, for the next several years, I really started practicing that. What does that look like? And I discovered just so much beautiful something. There was just something so beautiful. There was so much beauty on the other side of that and the possibilities that came for me not just from a romantic relationship, but just relationally. What happened for me? As a result of being vulnerable, I'm doing this sermon. I had to tell my dad one time.
Aliya Cheyanne:Please preach.
EbonyJanice Moore:It's okay, I had to tell my dad one time, please preach, it's okay. I had to tell my dad one time in the midst of doing this work and my dad just has a heavy voice. And so one day my dad was talking. He was upset about something. He wasn't yelling, but he was just talking hard to me.
Aliya Cheyanne:Okay.
EbonyJanice Moore:I said, dad, can you not talk to me like that? And he said you know how I am, you know how I get. And I said that may be how you have been, but you can't be that way with me anymore. And I just grabbed my chest and put my hands over my heart and I said it feels really heavy for me, I feel your heaviness when you talk like that. It doesn't feel good in my body and this isn't new. It's always felt like that for me when you talk to me like that, I just have the language for it.
EbonyJanice Moore:Finally, yeah, it's on my dad. He's still struggling with it. For the record, my dad is not master. My dad is not master. This, my dad is 50 something year old black man from, so he's not master gentle parenting, especially because this is language that is coming to him when his youngest child is like 38, 39 years old. Right, so I'm making this. But now my dad will be like I'm sorry, no, it's hilarious, because a little bit it's performative. But I so deeply appreciate it because he catches himself in the middle of getting ready to turn up and even even though he tried to be funny a little bit, there is. At the very least he is honoring or working.
EbonyJanice Moore:Yeah, yeah, I don't think. Oh, I can't go that high because I know how Ebony Janice feels about that, so let me dial it back in. I'm gonna be a little silly with it. I love you, dog, you know I'm gonna be and so but I'll take that over like this heavy aggressive.
EbonyJanice Moore:And what happens when you say that to a 6'4 Nigerian man that you date, who looks at you and is like that hurts you yes, it hurts me. Can you say something sweet at you and is like that hurts you, yes, it hurts me. Can you say something sweet to me? And that's this big Avenger looking nigga got to figure out like, okay, let me say something sweet to this girl. Well, it really is like literally reforming so many of my relationships and my friendships and my experiences, because my willingness to try out vulnerability, to try out softness, blah, had to flesh that out in text before I could just get Black women to believe in this romance novel that it was more than just a fantasy, that you could say to a man that hurts me and that he could possibly care about that.
EbonyJanice Moore:That is a possibility and, whether he cares about it or not, that I have created this space for softness for myself such to the point that, if he doesn't give it to me, my seat itself knows what it feels like for me to have to get back up, and so that even is new information for me. I'm not living up, I'm living in my seat. But now my body recognizes like, oh girl, you can't, you gotta get up here. You know you can't stay seated right here because you done told this man very vulnerably I don't like that, it doesn't feel good. And his response is basically you ain't safe. So we are learning the difference versus, you know, just staying in fight mode. We're learning the difference between being able to actually invite people into our softness and and you know, and then still, you know, we still posture to knock if we got a book.
Aliya Cheyanne:We don't have to, but if we have to, we will. That's so good. That's so good Just this invitation to vulnerability, like as you're exploring that for yourself, but also opening the door for other women to explore what vulnerability and softness looks like for them as well, and being able to advocate for themselves in that way, whether that be creating a boundary or just, you know, trusting yourself enough to express what's going on with you physically. I think that's so good. So thank you for that particular body of work. But you have created just so good. So thank you for that particular body of work. But you have created just so much.
Aliya Cheyanne:And I'm just so fascinated by you because you have so many projects and cool things that you've put out into the world. And at the same time I know you've shared in other areas that you're an introvert. I know from your work that you're a crap corn baddie. I know that you're a manifest is like all of these different things. So I can see where just the drive and the ability to like, go into the dream space and create comes from. But I also wonder how you just kind of navigate that with more like introverted qualities, because I also more of a little bit of an introvert, but that doesn't deter us from creating. So I would love to talk a little bit of an introvert, but that doesn't deter us from creating.
EbonyJanice Moore:So I would love to talk a little bit more about that with you. That's why pretty much 90% of my life is in my spirit tools. You know, like why I would create a boundary that I don't talk to people before 11 am yeah.
EbonyJanice Moore:Because I need to have myself before I can give you Now I, you know, at some point, you know, we'll likely get a little husband and maybe some children, and so I don't know that it will stay. The reality that I can be like don't talk to me until 11 am, don't talk to me until 11 am is crazy. Oh, let me, let me not talk, let me not call myself. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, children, whoever you're like, you never know would not surprise me if my children came out like boundaries. Yeah, yeah, um, but for so, so, just figuring out for yourself how to you know, as a, as an introverted manifester, right, how do I make sure that I have like just copious amounts of ebony genie's time, you know, and and not just you know, not just you know, not just scrolling on social media like copious amounts of Ebony Janice time to do like things that really restore me?
EbonyJanice Moore:really replenish me, you know, and that isn't always, you know, totally by myself. Sometimes I do call my best friend and just say all the most ratchet things possible, like I've been waiting to tell you this, whatever, so that we can laugh so hard that I feel it in my core. So, whatever that looks like Sometimes that is even just as an introvert. It's not that I don't enjoy being around people, it's that I really do better one-on-one in a lot of situations. So, like just being with the people, my chosen people, the people that I need, you know, like, oh, just, let's just love each other. Yeah, from my water or sea or something, just so, yeah, so that's a major part of it. Like, how am I creating?
EbonyJanice Moore:And, you know, putting out so much work over the years is because I've learned that about myself that if I don't have the time to myself for myself, even after I go out, if I'm out doing, traveling or doing a lot, when I get home I can't just go back to business as usual. I need a day to recover. Please don't talk to me, don't need anything, don't ask me for anything In the event of an emergency. Try Jesus, 911, or witchcraft. Those are your options because I can help you right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, copious amounts of Ebony Janice recovery time is just built into my day and you know what my schedule is. I just kind of flesh it out from there and I and and I acknowledge my privilege to be able to say, like, don't talk to me till 11,.
EbonyJanice Moore:But I also want to say that I've been like this for forever, though, like you know, when I was like still you know, scratching and surviving and hanging in a child line trying to figure things out, I still, even at that time, at some point, every single person in my immediate family was living in the same house. We was all grown I was just out of grad school, all of our dogs and all my siblings' children, so every person in my immediate family was in the same house, because I was the only one that didn't have children. I was the only one that had a room to myself, so I would go in that room. I made this little sign on construction paper that said recording silence, please, management, and I put it on the door outside my door. It annoyed them for sure. They didn't know what was going on in this room, they just knew Ebony's niece is in the room with the door closed and the sign is on the door, let's at the very least try to, you know, be quiet for a minute.
Aliya Cheyanne:And.
EbonyJanice Moore:I was. I was just needing that time. You know, sometimes I was working on my podcast, sometimes I was. You know, sometimes I was just laying in the bed being quiet and I just need that sign on the door so nobody would. 9,000 people in this house. You know gonna have a minute right yes, all right.
EbonyJanice Moore:even, like I said, it's there is. I'm acknowledging the privilege of this moment, but there is. There is like a deep focus on my, the, my higher self is well rested. So now, in this moment, while I'm still trying to figure out how to get, how to get to the most rested version of myself, I will force myself, I will other people, to respect that I need at least 25 minutes to myself, and that's just what it is, and there's nothing you can do to. To step over that boundary, like literally out of that door, is not one thing you could do to make me not take these 25 minutes. I'll put my earbuds in and let you stand there and talk to yourself. I think, yeah, I think it froze a little. I'll put my earbuds in and let you stand there and talk to yourself.
Aliya Cheyanne:I think, yeah, I think it froze a little. I think you can see me. Can you see me moving or hear me? Okay, okay, so you know we were talking a little bit about just making time for yourself and creating space for yourself as an introvert, as a manifester, as Capricorn Maddie, and I think, in creating those spaces and those moments and those times for yourself, it also allows you to just kind of fully go into imagination and creation mode, and you've developed so much incredible work, from the Free People Project to all the Black Girls Are Activists and beyond, like so many incredible things.
Aliya Cheyanne:Recently I was just kind of going into the archives and listening to Casually Brilliant like all these different things that you put out into the world, and I would just love to talk about some of the themes that I've heard come up in a lot of these different aspects of your work just around dreaming and resting and playing for Black women, around softness and all these other things. So just to kind of circle back to daydreaming and visualizing, why do you think that's so important for Black women to create space for now, especially in a world that is so busy and there are so many things on our shoulders when we don't feel like we have capacity to dream or visualize. Why do you think that's so important for us?
EbonyJanice Moore:Yeah, I came to the language of dreaming as a radical resistance when I realized that everything that I had ever created to this point was from a place of resistance.
EbonyJanice Moore:It was like this doesn't exist for my family, so I will make it. There isn't anything like this for the Black girls, so I will build it. No one has ever given space for the Black girls to do this, so we will start it. And there is a difference. I started to really think about that, that there is a difference between building something because of resistance right, like think about what it feels like to resist something, even in your body as opposed to what is necessary for me to create something from my highest imagination. And as I really started to tap into that, I realized that I had again co-created this really incredible career and I started asking the homies who are probably you've certainly heard me use this language before some of your celebrated faves if you could be doing anything, your highest imagination of what you would be doing on a daily basis with your successful self, would you be doing this? And all of them said hell no, or some version of hell, no. And it certainly was a hell no for me that I had accidentally become successful as an educator particularly focused on anti-racism education. I never meant to be doing that. Particularly focused on anti-racism education. I never meant to be doing that. That was totally accidentally I always say accidentally to that because I've always been about the Black girls and about Black women and femmes, always, always, always. So how I accidentally found myself talking to white people about the most bottom of the barrel, talking to white people about the most bottom of the barrel? Basic information ever to be anti-racist is to not be racist. That's the least you can do, right? I have no clue, and I found that that is the case for so many of us.
EbonyJanice Moore:You ask your mother how she ended up in her field, right, that, even if it is something that she felt passionate about, it is not her highest imagination for herself, and more, she's never, ever, ever given herself permission to tap into what the highest imagination for herself was, because the struggle or the resistance was so strong that that was the only thing she could think about. I don't even have time to think about that kind of fantastical, you know, whatever, whatever it is, and so that is how I, you know, come to dreaming. Really is that there's something very radical and revolutionary for Black women who historically, have not been able to just be like do, do, do, do, do. This is what I want to do, and the more data I began to collect on this. I would ask that question in your highest imagination and you know what the large majority of these Black women would still say. They would still say something that was focused on helping the people. So I realized that Black women still, even if you gave them the language of highest imagination, they still had no capacity to think of themselves, to think of something that just is.
EbonyJanice Moore:This is for me. Now, here's the thing. That's not selfish, because what is for me blesses everybody, right, everybody is so in. When I'm well, everybody's well. But I had just no capacity and for so many of us, no capacity to really fathom, like I got to take care of myself first, wait, but my children are hungry. Sit the little kids down, get you something to eat and then fix them what you going to fix them, right, there's no capacity to even think about that. A more well me is a more well people, that a more well me is a more well people, right. That a more well me is a more well community, that a more well me is a more well world.
EbonyJanice Moore:And so that dreaming. How could we just continue to go deeper and deeper into that dreaming and continuing to go like you think you have found the highest dream, and then you start to create that. And then you arrive at that destination, you realize and you ask yourself the question because again, you're using your spirit tools. You've got to have some check-in language for yourself to make sure you're on track. And so very often I will arrive at the destination or close to it and I'll say is this a good life, is this what I meant to do? Is this what I meant to create Like? And so often I can get there and I'm like I don't think this is okay, this is closer, but this is not actually what I meant to do. This has been a blessing to so many people.
EbonyJanice Moore:There is a higher version of me that knows that I have something even more profound to say, to do, to be, and I want to be me, actual me, more than I want anything else in the world. And so it is my job to continue to dig into the dream, the fantasy, the fantastical, the imagination, and to trust it. Like Toni Morrison said, to trust my, you know, trust that spiritual imagination, like it's the gospel truth. I trust it Like it's the gospel, like this is God saying this to me? Like something higher, something higher, something higher, something higher, and it's, and it's, you know, more money, more dah, dah, dah, whatever it's that me. Me is richer, me is a richer, more you know profound version, more seated, more well, more whole version of myself. As a result of that, yes, I tend to make a couple extra dollars. You know, the more me I am, the better my finances are, the better my health is, like there are all these other things that are so greatly impacted by it. But when I say a richer me, I mean the richer me.
EbonyJanice Moore:Think about rich as in taste. When you taste something that's rich, it's like the strongest taste of it. That's my goal to be the richest Ebony Janisse. As soon as I show up, you're just like oh, this is a fine dining experience, honey, this is it. You can't get this at. You know the local Aldi. You gotta go to the. You know to them stores that you don't even know the names of them. They just got. It's only one of them. It's called the. Like. Let me stop trying to make up a grocery store, but you know what I'm talking about.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yes, no-transcript quoted you and saying you know citation makes you credible around that language. But the way you also speak about authority, you've done it in a way that I haven't always thought about. Who created these structures and these parameters to say that so and so is an authority in this space, especially when it's cultural, knowledge or historic? You know sort of thought process around credibility and authority and what that looks like for you, especially in your work, but also what it looks like for Black women showing up in spaces, sometimes predominantly white spaces, where our authority is regularly questioned and challenged.
EbonyJanice Moore:I wrote about this in my bestselling book All the Black Girls Are Activ activists, where I talk about this three-part track that I call the Range. It is my ancestors, my education and my lived experience is what qualifies me and authorizes me and makes me credible. And so it is all three of them, though right, it's not just one and not the others, it's all three of them. My ancestors make me credible. They qualify me, they authorize me because, number one, they've been about it and they still about it. They likely created it, they already done it and ran circles around it. And there's something that I get to know because they're from a scientific epigenetics expresses to me that there's something from my Medea, my great grandmother. There's something from my Medea that is in my body, that is a part of me. So that means that there are things that I absolutely know that nobody taught me. Nobody taught me that. How do you know that? As a young girl, before I even had the science of it, I'll go from a spiritual perspective. I'm just really tapped into a supernatural knowing which I think we all have access to. It's really just a matter of I think, maybe even too, as a dreamer and as an introvert, because I spend so much time to myself, I have more quiet space to hear from spirit. So maybe that's it. I'll suggest that, possibly. But there were things that I would say to my grandmother about her mother. Sometimes, like, just using my imagination I'm doing quote fingers I think this is my imagination. Like, grandma, this is what I think about your mom. You know, dah, dah, dah, whatever I can tell her story, and my grandmother would get emotional, like how do you know that? Because my Medea, which is my grandmother's mother, what they call her Medea, my Medea transitioned when my mom was a little girl. So how would I know anything about this lady? And my grandmother would just get immensely emotional. Like that is my mother. Like you are telling me about my mother right now and so I'm using that as an example to say that how could I know that? How could I know those things? And then, if I could just use that surface information to know that there's something that I know about my great-grandmother that I couldn't know because I didn't know her face to face, that there is information that's downloaded to me that ain't even just mine. Are we frozen? Again, I'm using my knowing about my Medea, about my great-grandmother, as an example, to say that if I could know things about her then I could know, study that thing in order to learn it.
EbonyJanice Moore:Or I didn't go to some institution external from myself or my family or my genealogy right, to know it. That I know it. So my ancestors authorized me my education, which is formal and formal education. Right, my education and my lived experiences so there is, you know, just data that I'm collecting on a daily basis. Right, there is a language that I speak, that there is a certain demographic of people that speak that language. It's called Black girl. Right, and so our shared lived experience makes us credible.
EbonyJanice Moore:Right, white institutions would say that it would more often than not, particularly from a cultural, anthropological perspective, say that it is better to have someone outside of that group of people do the study and then produce the data. But usually the person outside of that group is a white man and or white man adjacent. Right, it's not us that can say even if we gave you access to our group, you still wouldn't be able to properly articulate what it is that we were saying, because there's still coded language in our body movement, there's still coded language in, you know, in the way that we express ourselves Right, it's just still coded language. You could, you could deeply initiate yourself and immerse yourself as much as possible into this group and you still would understand it. So. So, therefore, the authority on this topic is me right.
EbonyJanice Moore:My lived experience makes me the authority and I, you know, in closing to that, I really come to those, to that three parts of my ancestors, my education, my lived experience, is what qualifies me and authorizes me, because there are times when there is no institution that has ever existed and or will ever exist that can prove to me that I know, don't know, the thing that I just said. I know, don't know, there's no one. And to and to say that I'm not credible because no one said I'm in charge of this information, I will certify you, authorize you, make you credible. It's, it's literally just white supremacist delusion, which is language that I got from Sonya Renee Taylor. It's just white supremacist delusion.
EbonyJanice Moore:And I even lean into the language of authority because I remember hearing my pastor of his church I used to go to years ago. We were having a conversation about something that was going on in my life and he said to, he said to me like, with energy who authorized you. And that voice comes up in my head so often when somebody's trying to say a black woman ain't credible to do, or I can't do this or shouldn't have space for this. Who authorized you? Who put you in charge? Who agreed? Who said Now, maybe somebody did, but it wasn't me, it wasn't this collective group of people who were being excluded from this conversation. We didn't agree. We didn't agree because we never had even had a vote, we never had any say-so. So it's really important to kind of, in the deconstructing and the decolonizing of your own intellect, it's really important to just ask the question who said that? That was the way, the truth and the light? Who?
EbonyJanice Moore:said so and once you arrive at who said so, ask yourself the question that queer theologians, zan West, asked us to ask who does it benefit for me to believe it that way? Okay, who authorized you? Okay, I see who authorized you. Now let's see who does it benefit for you to be in charge? Who does it benefit for us to believe it the way that you say so? And if it doesn't benefit the least of these, then ain't nobody. Well, so in that, how much more could we really be walking into our authority if we understood that it's hella people out here saying they in charge of some stuff, that none of us given the chance to really think this through, we starting back, we ended where we started, giving the chance to think a thought through. None of us would agree that you're really in charge. None of us would agree.
EbonyJanice Moore:So, therefore, there has to be some other, some other tracks, some other mechanism through which I get to filter my authority, and I will do that in a holistic way, through my ancestors, my education, my lived experience. Those things are what make me credible, and I dare you to tell me I'm not because you don't know my grandmother, you don't know her mother. You can't tell me that I don't. I know that factually. How can you tell me? I don't know that I'm not, I'm doing, you know right. So there has to be theory, ethic and practice. So the ethic, my code of conduct, is that I would be in integrity and I won't cause harm to anyone with information. I won't just make up something and say this was revealed to me, right. But there are some things I know that there's the only way that I can know it is spirit, and so spirit got to be a credible source to cite them, and that's just that.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yes, I love that. Oh my God, that's so good. And I love the way that you just uplift your grandmother and everything and you've said in the past too about your work, like even crediting her wisdom, which I think is so beautiful. And I love the way you talk about just ancestral knowledge and said in your work in the past, just being a good steward of your life now and planting seeds now, basically because one day you too will be an ancestor and making sure Y'all better be properly citing me.
EbonyJanice Moore:So you got to practice it now. Practice your citing now. Right, see how I just did that. I can say something that maybe many people have heard and I still bring I still, you know, white supremacist delusion. I got that from Sonia Renee Taylor. I have that knowing. I always bring her into the conversation. I always bring Emma Jane Paxley into the conversation. I always bring the people who I'm learning from and are with or who are just sending their knowing into me, into the conversation. And I use this example often you would not quote Toni Morrison without you would not cite Toni. You would not quote Toni Morrison without you would not cite. You would not quote Toni Morrison without citing Toni Morrison. You wouldn't be out here just willy nilly, you know, quoting lines from Beloved, acting like that was you. So why do you do it with me? Why do you do it with your mom? Why do you do it with your cousin? Why do you do it with Spirit? Why don't you cite the source? Stop waiting until we're your ancestor to say now you're worthy of citation.
Aliya Cheyanne:C until we're your ancestor to say, no, you're worthy of citation. Cite me now, nigga. Yeah, cite me now, exactly. Yes, I know, I'm definitely citing you now. Thank you for all of the wisdom that you are sharing and all of the work that you're doing, and it was such an honor to have a conversation with you today. I would love for you to let folks know where to find you, where to support all of your great work.
EbonyJanice Moore:Yeah, I'm at Ebony Janice everywhere E-B-O-N-Y-J-A-N-I-C-E, ebony Janice Instagram threads. I guess those are the places where I'll be saying stuff, and then my website is ebonyjanicecom, so it's just easy to join my newsletter. As an introverted Capricorn, one thing I'm never going to do is ever spam you, because I unsubscribe every Monday from things that are doing too much in my inbox, so I will never be doing too much in your inbox. But the newsletter is a really dope place to just find out about miscellaneous stuff that's happening first. Right, the newsletter is always going to get it first. So those are the ways to kind of like, comment and subscribe. Thanks for joining my YouTube channel.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yes, I love that and I will make sure I link everything in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time today for your conversation. This is really great.
EbonyJanice Moore:Thank you for these beautiful questions. Thank you.
Aliya Cheyanne:Thank you, hey friend. What an incredible conversation with Ebony Janice. Ebony Janice, thank you so much for coming on to the show, for sharing more of your work, your wisdom and just more of who you are and letting your vibrant personality come through. So thrilled and so honored to speak with you, and I'm so happy to share this episode with our listeners of the show. One thing that I've heard Ebony, one thing that I've heard Ebony Denise say in her work in the past is that she is working hard to plant seeds now for future generations to reap someday, for future generations to benefit from, and the life that she has created for herself, that she is continuing to create for herself, the principles and the practices and the spiritual tools that she is using in her life right now are planting so many powerful seeds, not just for herself, but for those of us who come in contact with her work, those of us who are learning from her, and that is even having an impact on all of us, and I think that's so powerful. I think living your life with intention and striving to be a good spiritual being, having a human experience now and someday becoming a celebrated ancestor, is so just important, and I'm just so thrilled and honored to have had such an incredible conversation with Ebony Janice and while we were offline, she gave me such a lovely compliment about just the time and the intention that I put into our interview and into this conversation. It was so affirming and so beautiful. So thank you for that, evany Janisse. If you were inspired or touched by today's conversation, I highly suggest that you check Evany Janisse's work out on her website, on her Instagram Everything will be linked below and lean into her work, lean into the wealth of knowledge and the wisdom and support her great work. She is doing really incredible things. All right, friend, thank you so much for tuning into this episode and I will catch you on the next one. Bye.
Aliya Cheyanne:I actually really love Ebenezer's take and work around ancestry not just the veneration aspect, like recalling and remembering and naming and honoring those who have come before us, but also living life well and doing your best with the human experience that you have now and doing your best to be a good person, as you are, this spiritual being having this human experience, but honoring yourself and others enough to really think about becoming an ancestor someday and becoming a good one. And I just love a lot of her language around planting seeds now that generations to come will be able to. I think that's so nice and just a beautiful way to think about it, and I actually saw a post recently that I really, really loved, so I want to share that too before we go. So the post was by, so the post is by Dr Sarah Campbell and Dr Sarah goes by medicine underscore mommy on Instagram. Love that page, and the post was actually a love letter or a love note to people who are doing the work now for generations to come, and I thought it was really beautiful, so I'm going to link it in the show notes, but I also want to share it with you here.
Aliya Cheyanne:It says all the work you're doing will not go unnoticed by the generations to come that will be softened from the wounds you held and healed. I'm sending out a love note from your children, your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren, your great-great-grandchildren, the future leaders of the world, the future change makers, way showers, preachers, teachers and healers. Thank you for all of the wounds you have held, nurtured and healed. Our lives are forever changed and softened by your devotion. The generations to come, along with the ones that have come before you. We are all holding you, celebrating you and loving you as you take on what no one in your lineage had been able to do before. We are always here to hold you, and you are never alone.
Aliya Cheyanne:All of the work you're doing matters more deeply than you could ever know. Thank you for understanding that if trauma can be passed down through generations, then so can healing. You are held, you are guided, you are protected, you are loved without bounds, and you are deeply cherished and celebrated. We are so proud of you. That post just sends tingles down my scalp. I love it so much, and the caption is great too. Again, I will link it in the show notes. You can check it out on your own, read it, save it, come back to it when you need it. I thought it was so fitting to help close our conversation today.
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