Why Union's matter with Calum Gallacher, Assistant Secretary Social Workers Union

In this episode I talk to Calum and Carol about:

-Social Workers Union and how it was formed
-The value of being part of a union
-Managing your boundaries as a new social worker


Calum Gallacher

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Social Workers Union 

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Transcript

 SWU

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Headset Microphone (Sennheiser SCx5 USB MS): [00:00:00] Hi and welcome to Social Work Sorted, the podcast. I'm Vicki Shevlin. I'm your host, and I founded Social Work Sorted, an online platform for newly qualified social workers.

I'm an experienced children's social worker, previous Child Protection Conference Chair, and I started Social Work Sorted so that newly qualified social workers could connect theory to practice.

 My mission is to help you bring confidence and calm to your first year as a social worker.

Headset Microphone (Sennheiser SCx5 USB MS): Because I know that when that happens, you are able to positively influence so many of the people around you, including the children and families that you work with.

This podcast is all about practical guidance, realistic advice, and amazing insights from the wonderful guests that I have joined me.

So whether it's a bite sized episode, something to reflect on, 

or an entire conversation for you to soak up, you are so welcome. If you want to know more about the ways I can help you as a student or newly qualified social worker, or even a workforce development lead, then make sure you go and have a look in the show notes. And I'll also be reminding you at the end of this [00:01:00] episode.

Before we get into it, just a reminder if you find this episode or any of the other episodes helpful.

Headset Microphone (Sennheiser SCx5 USB MS)-2: Please take two minutes to leave a rating, a review, get in touch with me and share it with somebody else.

Headset Microphone (Sennheiser SCx5 USB MS): I'm so grateful that this podcast is part of your social work journey.

Microphone Array (Realtek High Definition Audio(SST)): Hello, welcome back to the podcast. Before I go into this conversation, I just wanted to introduce it slightly and talk about my guests and talk about social workers unions and unions in general. So in this conversation today, I am joined by Callum Gallagher, who is the Assistant General Secretary of Social Workers Union.

And I'm also joined by Carol Reid, who was a national organizer and the union contact manager. She's no longer working with social workers union, but I know that she really wanted this conversation to go out and to have this as a bit of a, a memory of her time within the social workers union as well.

The first thing that I want to say, and we do talk about this in the conversation, but I get asked this [00:02:00] all the time. So I want to make it really, really clear. If you are a member of Baswa, Baswa is not a union. Baswa and Social Workers Union do lots of joint work, but they are not the same thing. And so many social workers I know join Baswa and think that they have the protection of a union.

And Baswa is a professional body for social workers. You can be a member of Baswa. I don't know how many times I'm going to say that in this episode, but I just want to make it so clear because I get asked that question all the time. 

Also to say, I personally am a member of Social Workers Union. That was my choice. I signed up when I joined Baswa, which was only in the last couple of years. Um, so I kind of know that for lots of students and new social workers, maybe being part of a union just isn't on your mind. It's not something that you're thinking about.

 It wasn't something that I thought about when I was a student or a new social worker, but also things were quite different when I [00:03:00] started in social work, even though it wasn't that long ago. There was not the level of threat that there is currently on unions, on workers rights. The government was, it wasn't better, but it was a lot different.

And yeah, I think now, politically, economically, It's a very sensible thing for you to start thinking about joining a union. I have had other unions on the podcast before talking about how they support social workers. So although Yeah, i'm personally a member of social workers union. You should do your own research.

You should go and get in touch with people , contact unions to talk about and get them to answer any questions that you've got. Make your own decision in and around that, but make sure that it is an informed one. And hopefully this conversation will help you and give you a bit of understanding of unions in general, and how they can support you.

Vicki: So Callum and Carol, welcome to the podcast and [00:04:00] thank you for your time today. Before we kind of go into talking about social workers union, I'd love to know a little bit about how you arrived at your roles within social work union. 

Carol: Yeah. Well, I joined the social workers union as a member back in 2014 I qualified in social work where I went to work within mental health area, adult social care community mental health advocacy, that always in that kind of arena. And I wanted to join, I was already a member of a trade union, a large generic trade union.

But when I heard about the social workers union, what drew me to it was the fact that it is. specific to social workers. It's run by social workers for social workers. And I was kind of intrigued by that. And I thought it was a you know, exactly what I wanted really. So I joined the union. I was a, I was a member of the union for several years.

And back in 2017, I applied to sit on the executive. of the trade union. I just saw an advert in the newsletter [00:05:00] asking for exec members. I contacted the general secretary, asked for some information about what the role would involve. I thought it sounded interesting. So I applied to do that. I was, I was a member of the executive body for perhaps a year or so when the national organizer role came about.

So I applied for that was fortunate enough to get that. So I've been involved in SWU for. For many years, really, looking back, probably 10 years this year from becoming a member to actually becoming a member of staff. And so that's the journey that I've took via social work to get to SWU. 

Callum: I was an unqualified care worker for many years, working with children and young people with learning disabilities. And was inspired to, to go and become a social worker so that I could better advocate for their, their needs and, and challenge some of the systems in place that I felt were unfair [00:06:00] or unequal for, for children with learning disabilities.

And then I worked in mental health as a social worker worked in varying teams. So I've been qualified for about 15 years. And I actually got involved with the social workers union as a union contact, which was something that Carol set up for, for the social workers union, which was basically being a workplace rep.

And that was around 2018, 2019, I became a member but prior to that I'd been a workplace rep while practicing as a social worker for two years. bigger general unions at separate times in my career. But when I joined SWU, I joined feeling that I really needed to be in a trade union that understood the specific demands of my job.

And I became the Assistant General Secretary through [00:07:00] appointment in March, almost 12 months ago, March last year. 

Vicki: And Callum, what do you think is the biggest misconception that people make about Social Workers Union in particular?

Callum: I think It's specific to the social workers union. I think there's an assumption that because we're not involved in collective bargaining that we can't really represent the needs or the interests of our members, which is actually quite a big misconception because we know from evidence that comparatively With some of our other trade union colleagues, we actually do provide excellent representation and we're able to make a significant difference in workplaces for members on an individual level in terms of challenging challenges.

Changes [00:08:00] to terms and conditions, but also collectively as well. You know, people often put in collective grievances and actually, you know, we might, we might support or contribute to those collective grievances, not represent all members, but we can do that collaboratively with other trade unions as well.

Vicki: So, collective. Bargaining. For people who don't know , what does it mean? 

Callum: Well, it means that there's a formal recognition with your employer. So there are two routes to collective bargaining. The bigger trade unions tend to have a collective bargaining via a statutory arrangement.

Which means the the are they're quite limited in the negotiations that they can have with employers. It means they can only really negotiate around pay hours and annual leave. Whereas if you have a voluntary recognition with an employer, which can be done for [00:09:00] any trade union or any body of members, you know, you can approach your employer and say, I would like you to recognize my trade union.

I want them to be part of consultations about processes or, or, or changes that are happening in the workplace. For voluntary recognition, we can approach employers and seek that. Generally, a trade union would look to have around 10 percent of membership within a place of work before considering looking at a voluntary agreement with an employer, but having a voluntary agreement is a contract that's negotiated with much broader terms, which means that you know, effectively, there's a, there's a great scope to, to what you can negotiate and be consulted about in the workplace for your members.

Vicki: Okay, so if I'm a social workers union member and all the unison [00:10:00] members in my team are going on strike, I can't go on strike. unless there is a voluntary agreement.

Callum: Yes, you need that legal protection, but I mean, that stands for, for those unison members as well.

Carol: What would you tend to find as well with when members are in that situation? They'll often take time out, you know, take time off, use annual leave, use accrued loo time, purely to show camaraderie, obviously, and, and you know, avoid any kind of issues in, in breaking a strike.

Now, obviously, if you were not a member of that other larger trade union, you wouldn't be striking alongside them. But you would be, you know, in support of the strike, , showing solidarity and taking time off to not attend work on that day. And we do often find that SWU members, you know, go down that route, choose to go down that route in solidarity with other trade unions whilst not being a member of that union.

Vicki: And so I think one of the most [00:11:00] common questions I get from students who knew social workers, I can't actually answer myself, is just this blanket question of, well, why aren't social workers striking? And what they mean by that question is why aren't all the social workers striking at the same time? 

Carol: Yeah.

You 

Vicki: know, there are little pockets of it. 

Carol: Yeah. 

Vicki: So for people who are, who just have no idea what a union does or how it works, could you answer that question of why aren't all social workers striking at the same time? 

Callum: Yeah, I mean, I'm really encouraged by you saying that, Vicky, that, you know, you're meeting newly qualified social workers or ASYEs who have an appetite to actually stand up for themselves and against some of the conditions they're facing.

with employers but, but, you know, that there are really stringent legal processes or, or legislation that inhibit how we are able to strike . , we used to be able to hold sympathy strikes back in the [00:12:00] 1980s for other trade unions that were out on strike.

We can't do that anymore. So the legislation that, that guides and, to some extent, restricts our ability to take industrial action is the Employment Relations Act 1996, the Trade Union and Labor Consolidations Act 1992. They, they both set the parameters for all workers across all sections about how they go about planning strike and how it's put in action.

So for instance, If a trade union was considering striking, they might have taken other actions prior to that. There might have been a lengthier campaign, you know, that there might have been a campaign whereby they, they rally their members and they go out and they demonstrate, and then they might have a petition where they, and they might you know, lodge that with governments.

It's appropriate. And [00:13:00] then sort of keep up union based activities and keep the momentum going before they then move to an informal ballot. which is to sort of test out the appetite amongst their members as to, to how many people might want to strike and for us, of course, that's concentrated to social workers.

But bigger trade unions still be covering huge cross sections of workforces and local authorities. And there's a lack of distinction between the types of jobs that each of those local authority employees do. So they'll have an informal ballot, then they might move to a statutory ballot, for which they need 50 percent of their members to turn out and vote.

 If that vote is successfully more than 50% you know, then they will then propose a course of action Which might include strike, , but then there are other steps that come before strike as well. I think it's [00:14:00] important to remember strike as a last resort. You know, when we've exhausted all means of negotiating with employers.

Something that you may have seen in the news last week. Around college lecturer striking that you may be aware of that. Vicky given your, your position, but I think that's a really good example of how limited we are sometimes. 

The education in Institute for Scotland. They are representing the college lecturers that are out in straight at the moment. 

And I don't know if you've seen the, the employers have threatened the, the staff who are in, involved in, action short of strike, . So things like working to rule or saying, you've got a contract of employment. That says you work 37 and a half hours a week. You should only work those 37 and a half hours a week. You're not legally obliged to do any more than that.

But if an employee was to go out and declare [00:15:00] individually, I'm only going to work to rule. I'm only going to work to my contract without discussing that with a trade union, without there being any sanction or, or legal backing for that, then potentially, you know, they could actually be dismissed from their post.

What's happened in the case of these college lecturers at the moment is they have got the backing of their trade union, which is EIS. And so they are taking action short of strike. They're effectively working to their contract. They're working to rule. And employers have declared, they've acknowledged that.

But what they've said is, well, okay, we accept that, but any work that you do perform will be on a voluntary basis. So those staff are being subjected to a 100 percent pay deduction, even though they're in their lecture halls and their classrooms and they're teaching[00:16:00] these employers are arguing actually they're involved in industrial action and therefore they're not going to pay them.

Vicki: How 

Callum: do 

Vicki: you even get around that as a staff member then? Like I'm slightly off topic, but I'm interested. , What's the resolution to that? 

Callum: Well, I think the important thing to remember is that trade unions are a collective body. They're you know, we're a social movement for all. Working people, and you, you earlier mentioned misconceptions about trade unions.

Now, we know that the roots of trade unions come from industrialization and from the horrific conditions that people used to work in pre industrialization and post industrialization, and arguably into this century as well. 

Carol: That is one of the misconceptions made about trade unions, isn't it?

 Some people may see unions as being, you know, a distant entity, something that [00:17:00] only comes along and supports people when there's an issue, when there's a problem, when there's disagreements between employers and staff. And you know, and the reality is when you join a union, it's your union.

You can dictate. You know, collectively, which direction it moves in. And you do that by becoming an active member of the trade union. You know, you, you take the steps of becoming involved, you become a union contact in your workplace, SWU has you know, a growing team of, of union contact. Placed in workplaces and universities up and down the country. So, so that's how you grow and develop your union. You become active in it. You apply for executive positions. You know, you you can dictate and, and maneuver the direction of a trade union.

If you are not happy with the actions it takes. And that's, that goes back to the issues when people say, well, why don't we just strike? You know, often you have conversations with people who say that, and sometimes they're not even a member of a union, you know, once you elaborate, you know, dig a little bit [00:18:00] deeper you know, and they'll explain that, well, you know, I was a member once, but I wasn't happy with it, and I left, and I went to another union, wasn't happy with that.

But as I say, It's when it's your union, you're in a position to dictate and change it's, it's you know, it's route by becoming more involved within it. And, and Callum is a perfect example of somebody who's done that in SWU as starting off as you know, a union contact in his workplace and working his way up to, to assistant general secretary.

 There are lots of ways of you know, having your voice heard in your union. You may want to write an article for the newsletter. You may want to, get involved in campaigning. You may want to be involved in our online activities, , so you might want to post information online, share information, share campaign details and so on. So it's all about getting your voice heard and getting your trade unions voice heard and things that are a lot different to how they were in the 1980s when, you know, and 70s when people could just strike, you know, [00:19:00] go all out, strike within a day's notice.

Back in those days, you would meet your union rep on your first day of work. You would be introduced to the, the union, you know, be involved in the signing up for you know, to join, be given information about how to get more involved. All of that was happening within your first week of employment. It was almost part of your job induction.

In comparison, now there's very little mention of trade unions, certainly by Employers or managers or in fact, you know, I've spoken to members and to young people to students who've been say that they've been told by an employer that they can't join a union, and which is absolutely shocking you know anyone and everyone can join a trade union and no employer is ever in a position to tell you that you can't.

That's just a sign of a really bad employer, basically. So that's why when we were talking earlier about when people say, why don't we just strike? Callum's gone into a lot of detail into the legislation elements of that. [00:20:00] And the reality is that for union members, it's not quite that simple.

And a lot of it is to do with union numbers, membership numbers. So we were talking about voluntary recognition earlier. That's far more easy if you've got a growing team of members within a workplace. And that again, brings it back to the need for union contacts in workplaces to encourage their colleagues to join the larger a union, the larger the membership.

The more likely it is that you'll get voluntary recognition in workplaces, and then members can, you know, be active and you know, follow the routes that they want to within their union, and encourage their union to be as active as they want it to be, as, you know, once they're members. 

Vicki: I think it's helpful to think about because there will be people like me probably when I was nearly qualified naively thinking if I'm really unhappy with something and then I'll tell someone and then I'll go and strike and like that you know there's so many layers to that and actually even [00:21:00] explain that, you know, the strike is the last resort.

So often things get resolved before you have, the ideal is that things are resolved before you go on strike. And 

Carol: you know, the union is able to resolve a lot of issues prior to it becoming. that point, you know, to the strike point. That's, that's way further down the road, as Callum said, it's a last resort.

Callum: Yeah, and it really is very tightly Governed, it's, it's almost like an attack on workers rights. 

So, I mean, you, have to have a, a 50% turnout for your ballot. If you decide that you're going on strike, you need to give the employer 14 days notice in writing. That enables them to bring in agency staff. To cover so that that sort of dampens the impact of the strike in some extent because you know, you're withdrawing your labor because that's what you know, it's your last resort because your employer's not listening.

They're not [00:22:00] negotiating with your trade union about what your working conditions are, what your needs are. And then they can cover you with agency stuff. And your strike, of course, only, only lasts for a 12 week period. And then, again, that whole cycle of bureaucracy begins again for the trade union.

Carol: It's a very complicated and long winded process. Deliberately so, as I say, because the, you know, the underlying ideology is to avoid industrial action. 

Callum: Another 

Carol: misconception as well that's just sprung to mind, now this is more specific to SWU, is sometimes people join, BASWA, the British Association of Social Workers, thinking that they're joining a trade union. And obviously BASWA is an excellent professional association, but it's not a trade union.

 So that's an important element of having union contacts in workplaces, because one of their roles, or an important element of their role, is sharing that information.

And making sure that BASWA members are aware [00:23:00] that they do need to opt in to join a trade union as well. Being a member of BASWA alone doesn't provide that cover and security. 

But the important thing we feel is that once you're a BASWA member, You opt in to join SWU and get the full package of support from both the professional body and the trade union. That's a message that we find can be a bit confusing for people and it's something that we do need to get out to social workers, that the link between the professional body and the trade union exists, but one isn't the other,

Vicki: yeah, that's one of the things I find myself saying the most, I think, to people who ask, and I'm not an expert, but I'll answer if I know the answer. And quite commonly, I'm like, it's not the same, they're not the same thing. And so it's, maybe it's about kind of the messaging, just repeating that message as many times as possible, which I guess you have to do for 

Carol: people.

Definitely. 

Vicki: Yeah. 

Callum: Our general secretary, John McGowan, has written. Quite a lot of blogs about that because, because it is very , [00:24:00] confusing British Association of Social Workers are an excellent professional body. We work collaboratively with them through a cooperation agreement, We support one another in terms of providing the best services for our members.

However, they don't have a legal right to go into a workplace and represent. Because they're not, they're not an independent trade union as we are under Section 5 of the Trade Union Labour Relations Consolidation Act. So it's only the social workers union who can legally go into a workplace to represent somebody.

Vicki: And so for people who are either brand new to being in a union or kind of thinking about joining union and want to know more about social workers union, can you share an example of social workers union involvement 

Callum: there's been quite a lot written about it over the [00:25:00] last two, three years, because of course we've seen the most strike action. And the last two years or more than we have since the 1980s I think it was the class consciousness project that we're, we're, we're actually challenging trade unions and what can sometimes happen is Bigger trade unions, they may have paid officials that are embedded within organizations.

You know, they may have very close working relationships with senior management and to some extent that may be conflicts with representing the needs of members. 

Something that needs to be asked is, you know, what are bigger trade unions achieving for social workers in terms of the negotiations that have been had? And I think a really strong comparison to make in terms of a large generalist trade union, which is representing A whole host of staff across a local authority can't [00:26:00] distinguish the difference of a social worker's role.

For instance, if a social worker's called out in the middle of the night to go and remove a child because they're unsafe or to detain somebody under the mental health Legislation in whichever nation, you know that they can't distinguish a difference between that and somebody that's maybe employed by the council roads department being called out at three in the morning to go and grip the road or to fill in a pothole.

There are huge differences in the responsibility and I think that the pay negotiations that happen Need to be specific to rules rather than actually going in ballot and all your members across a local authority, regardless of what their role or job is and and securing a six or a 6. 5 P award for everybody in the local authority.

Whereas if you look at the results that other specialist professional trade unions have [00:27:00] availed such as EIS. I'm going to mention EIS again because I think they ran a brilliant campaign, but let's not be naive about that. That went on for four, five, six years before they achieved the result they wanted.

So, you know, that started with regular activities, getting out publicly and protesting petition letters local level campaigns and workplaces that were sustained. And then, you know, after four years, they got to a point where they felt they were ballot ready, you know, and that they were ready to ask 10 percent pay award.

They asked the government for a 10 percent pay awards and they came back and they offered 5%. And then they waited a little bit longer and they came back and they offered six percent and then 10 months later through persistence and constant pressure and union activities and actually [00:28:00] dispelling some of what the government's rhetoric was, they secured a phenomenal 14.

6 pay award. So I think what we need to be asking is why are trade unions content to maintain a status quo in some situations? And why are we accepting pay awards that are below the rate of inflation, which, as we know, last year was 10%. Okay, this year, it's come down significantly and it's 4%, but let's not forget that pretty much every social worker who's in a local authority or working for the NHS has probably not received an adequate pay award for the last 13 or 14 years.

It's been way below inflation. And it's not enough to keep up with the current circumstances that we're all in, you know, anyone that goes out to work. to earn a living, to survive as a working [00:29:00] class person, you know, it's, it's not that we are social workers, we are professionals, we don't need trade unions we don't need to stand together collectively in solidarity that, you know, of course we, we assume that we go out and we, we uphold everybody else's human rights and we make sure they're treated fairly and equally, and that they access justice, but Yet, when it comes to us as workers, there's an element of neglect , we don't prioritize ourselves.

And I'm not saying we're alone in the caring professions of doing that. But I want to come back to that sort of fallacy about you know, the misconceptions that people have about trade unions, which, you know, For me, I think is that it's only people that are in low paid or manual jobs that need to be in a trade union.

No, everybody needs to be in a trade union. 

Carol: You know, we might have a professional job that's required, you know, a university degree or elements of, [00:30:00] you know, lengthy training and so on. But we're all working class. , we need to move away from this kind of snobbery when thinking about particular professions and talking about doctors as well.

You know, that's obviously a high professional academic role, but they've got one of the strongest and most active trade unions in the BMA. You know, so there's a, there's a good example again, they, they understand and acknowledge their working class background and history of trade unionism and are very vocal and, and making the most from that, you know, taking the most from that in their action.

Callum:

To be mindful as well that, you know, that perpetuating this myth that it's only low paid workers that need to be in trade unions actually allows, Governments to dismantle the membership of trade unions, you know, we know that the membership has significantly fallen since the 1980s, you know, I think the 1980s, it was probably [00:31:00] above 70 percent of working class people were in a trade union.

Now it's lower than 30%. 

Vicki: Is there, is there an example recently or in the last 12 months where you have been able to resolve something for members? Like a positive example of a, of a campaign that you can share. 

Carol: Well, another you know, evidence of how we perhaps do things slightly differently is our campaign fund.

We, we have a separate campaign fund which enables members to initiate their own campaigns. So that's slightly different from conventional large generic trade unions. We have If, if somebody wants to initiate their own campaign, a member or a group of members, they get support from SW Financial and from Campaign Collective as well, which is an organization we work closely with.

And they will support members to initiate, establish a campaign, get it out there, speak to sometimes, you know, politicians or other organizations, CEOs and heads [00:32:00] of organizations to ensure that that. Campaign and that message is heard. And I wrote a quite recent one was the student bursary campaign, wasn't it?

In Scotland. And we've also had the part time working campaign. That's kind of national one in terms of ensuring that social workers get the opportunity to work flexibly and part time as opposed to that rigid nine to five situation that, you know, many social workers find that they, it's difficult to veer from.

And the more we explored that via the campaign, that the larger the feedback Became, and you know, it was an issue right across the board. So we managed to speak to you know, people managers and, and CEOs of volunteer organizations, local authorities, the NHS and you know, they were all of the understanding and recognition that that was definitely an issue.

Unfortunately we haven't had a, a solid outcome as yet, and things haven't changed dramatically, but we are seeing. A change [00:33:00] and we are seeing, you know, jobs advertised with the opportunity to work flexibly in part time when prior it was a steadfast, you know, full time nine to five and the rest, you know, often.

And so we are seeing some positive changes from that. And as I say, there was the student bursaries one as well. 

Callum: I think for me one of the greatest accomplishments is the formation of the union in itself, was that, you know, the professional body, British Association of Social Workers identified in 2011 that social workers needed access to specialist training.

Representation that they need to be supported and represented by people who have been social workers who understand the specific pressures of doing. our job, you know, because it is quite unique. 

But in terms of campaigns, something that I think was particularly Particularly successful [00:34:00] was our campaign to raise awareness about press reporting standards, about how we can hold journalists and the media accountable for how they misrepresent our profession. Now these standards were already there, but nobody was talking about them until, you know, the social workers union actually had a campaign about it and actually You know, got Ipsil on board and we've, we've delivered a number of training sessions with Ipsil, who are the press regulator who have explained how anybody, a social worker, member of the public, can challenge any false reporting on Social work, which I think is really key because we know that there have been several surveys that have been carried out, not just with our trade union, with other trade unions over the last 5, 6, 7 years that identify a main barrier to people staying in the profession is fear of public [00:35:00] scrutiny and being blamed by the press.

You know that that hugely contributes to how we attract people to come into the profession, but also how we sustain them in the profession as well, which is what you're doing, Vicky, isn't it? I mean, you're 

Carol: providing 

Callum: support. 

Carol: Yeah. It's not even just how we're portrayed in the press either, is it? It's how we're portrayed in, in kind of dramas and soaps and you know, that kind of thing.

Casually portrayed as, as some kind of enemy 

and it, you know, always follows that same kind of uneducated format when it's clear that the writers don't have any real insight into what actually does happen in social work 

Vicki: mine's, it's completely separate to this conversation, but I'm actually interested in the absence. So I sometimes wonder if, and this is kind of opposite to your campaign, but I sometimes wonder if the, the heavy focus on the [00:36:00] negative press. perpetuates the problem, much like in social work, if we focus on, you know, somebody's alcohol use, sometimes we perpetuate it, rather than looking at the root, or looking at what's not there, or looking at the, that gap in the chronology, when nothing was happening.

True, you know, sometimes I think student social workers and new social workers get this message all the time of negative press, the negative press to try and combat it.

But sometimes I wonder if that's not actually the best way. , like I said, I'm interested in the absence. I don't think we're in the public consciousness at all. And I don't think the 

Carol: problem is, 

Vicki: you know, When we talk about these negative perceptions of social work, I think that's a very small percentage.

The wider percentage just have no idea. So it's not that they are, we're, we're all horrible. They just don't know anything. I actually think that's, that's my take on it anyway, but I think that's actually the bigger. Issue that might be missing and sometimes that negative pressing And then it happens obviously i'm not saying it [00:37:00] doesn't but that that's so within the social work bubble when actually outside of that bubble it We're kind of not as focused on it I guess that's my like separate thing but coming back to our conversation.

I think I'm wondering if you've got any examples. Obviously, you've got positive examples of the campaigns. Have you got examples of when You Social workers union have been involved, you know, with members in local authorities or organizations where you've found some resolutions before things have escalated.

Callum: We take thousands of duty calls every year, inquiries from social workers UK wide that are concerned about either individual changes that are going to Adversely impact on them or collectively impact on the whole workforce.

For example, we're hearing a lot about local authorities that are going bust at the moment and some of them are [00:38:00] merging. Actually what the employers might be trying to do is negotiate. For poorer terms and conditions. 

We can actually join those negotiations and positively contribute and, and. Hopefully steer a better outcome not only our members, but any other employees that are being subject to changes in terms of conditions that are going to be less favorable. For everyone, meaning a pay reduction effectively.

Vicki: And so I guess that's what we haven't talked about as much is that if I'm a new social worker and something's happening at work that I don't like or I don't know if it's okay or not and I don't know if I'm allowed to challenge it and it feels uncomfortable but I'm not quite sure if I'm a member.

I can ring up and speak to somebody who is informed, who is going to say, you know, this is what could be happening, here's the next step of advice which actually, you know, all you have to do is [00:39:00] go on a generic social work Facebook group and people are asking those questions all the time and they might get 10 different answers from 10 strangers who have no idea of the context, 

Carol: yeah, it's back to that independent element as well. If you are a member of SWU and you contact our, you know, advice and representation team, you will get a completely impartial and correct answer that is very relevant.

To social work and it will be delivered by somebody who's got a not knowledge and an understanding of social work and the complexities of, of the role of the profession. And that's, you know, that's one of the huge differences between SWU and a large generic trade union that covers a multitude of professions.

It's that, you know, strong advice that you know you know that you're being supported by a fellow social worker at the end of the day. 

Callum: It makes it makes a huge difference. I mean you know, we're obviously talking about worst case scenarios when people actually need advice and representation and to be supported.

But, you know, we [00:40:00] do have earlier resolutions as well. You know, it might be that somebody looks at one of the guidance sheets and they're able to resolve the situation themselves. These are expertly written guidance sheets by your trade union officials. But, you know, being a member of a trade union should not just be an insurance policy.

It's an interactive process. It's, you know, it's something that's quite fluid. Your trade union is what you want it to be. To be, 

Vicki: and in terms of the accessibility of social workers union and some of the issues that have come up for social workers who are racialised as black or brown and part of the global majority what a social workers union Doing to ensure that it is an accessible place that, you know, any social worker from any background can join and have the same treatment as anyone else would have,

Callum: well, as social workers, I'm sure we can agree that, you know, we're committed to [00:41:00] equality, you know. Respect for diversity, difference and inclusion on on all bases. You know that that's that's what we do. That's the bread and butter of our jobs. And it's quite hard to digest the social workers themselves.

Don't get that fair treatment at work particularly in some cases when it comes to a protected characteristic or more than one protected characteristic. And we will challenge that and will advocate with and on behalf of members directly with employers. 

We have a campaign fund where we're always more than happy to receive applications from members. And if somebody wanted to run a campaign on anti racism, In social work. We would be really glad to receive it. 

Generally, what I will say is, if you were to speak to an advice and representation worker, a trade union [00:42:00] official, they'll tell you that they're challenging this sort of stuff on a daily basis, you know, that they, they are constantly negotiating and challenging employers.

Who are discriminating against their workers. 

Carol: I'd just add as well, Vicky, that we'd want black, brown and global majority social workers to challenge through itself. And, you know, we've got an almost all white executive body and, you know, we challenge that ourselves and we welcome applicants for executive roles 

you know, we're, we're open to those changes too. 

Vicki: That's really helpful. I think it'd be helpful for people listening as well. I know I'm over time so I usually end with asking guests the one piece of advice that they would ask, that they would tell or give their newly qualified self. So I wonder if I could start with you, Carol.

Carol: It would be to join a union, obviously, and actually that message would be to my student [00:43:00] itself as opposed to my newly qualified, you know, we welcome student members, we encourage student activism, you can join SWU as a student and carry that membership through into your workplace, throughout your work life, so yes, for me, the message would be join a trade union.

Callum: For me very much the same. But yeah, join the trade union that you think can best represent you in your profession. And the other piece of advice I will give is, you know, looking back at myself and having experienced chronic burnout and having to have been supported to recover from that. And I was supported by SWU.

I was supported by Carol, by Joan, just as a member. And also by the British Association of Social Workers who got me on a well being pilot. But thinking about how I got to that point of chronic burnout, you know, was because I constantly [00:44:00] prioritized the needs of other people, including the needs of the organization.

Above my own and what I'll see is join a union, become active, but remember that you've got a legal contract of employment that sets out the parameters for what you're meant to do on a daily basis and don't fall into the trap of doing an extra 20 hours a week and logging it as flexi time or toil that you will never get back.

And actually, you know, that's, it's not just about not being paid for that time, but you're making a huge. Family sacrifice, you know, when I think about the time that I've not spent with my family because I've stayed in the office till eight or ten at night. doing work that needs to be done. You know, that's quite upsetting to think about.

And so for this generation of social workers going forward, who are, who are being expected to take on higher caseloads, do more with less resources in terms of the, the, [00:45:00] the, the budgetary constraints of, of local authorities. Don't do it. There are systems in place to manage that. You, it shouldn't be you that's left feeling that you're carrying the burden of 

Carol: all that 

Callum: worry and stress about how you're supporting that person and their family.

You know, if, if you're finishing your working day at five o'clock and something urgently needs to be done and it's not being done, take it to your line manager and it's their responsibility to escalate that and to deal with it and to support you. You know, don't work over your hours. You know, don't feel compelled to go and work on the weekend and to miss out spending time with your kids, with your wife, with your husband, with the people that you, you care about and with the people that love you, because you won't get that time back.

And we need to stand together on that and start to make a change. 

Headset Microphone (Sennheiser SCx5 USB MS)-4: Thank you so much for listening to this episode.

Headset Microphone (Sennheiser SCx5 USB MS): Like I said at the start, if [00:46:00] you enjoyed it, if you took something from it, please take a couple of seconds to leave a rating or a review 

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Anything specific mentioned in this podcast episode will be in the show notes.

And here are some reminders of how we can stay in touch,

along with the ways that I can help you become a calm and confident social worker.

Firstly, I have a free newsletter, The Space. This is a weekly email sent out to students and newly qualified social workers.

With curated links and recommended reading and listening that I know you will find useful in your newly qualified year.

Secondly, I have an amazing membership, the collective. This is an online membership for students and newly qualified social workers.

Headset Microphone (Sennheiser SCx5 USB MS)-6: When you join, you get access to a learning hub full of bite sized video resources and downloadable eGuides. 

Headset Microphone (Sennheiser SCx5 USB MS): These are all specifically focused on the tasks, the policy, the legislation, the theory and the practice skills that you need in your first year as a social [00:47:00] worker.

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If you align with any of the values of Social Work Sorted, if you are looking for realistic, practical advice, if you are a strength based and solution focused person, 

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Headset Microphone (Sennheiser SCx5 USB MS): Thirdly, I have e book guides and video courses available

For students and new social workers.

[00:48:00] Who are looking for support and clarity in specific area, the child and family assessment guide, the home visit guide, risk in child protection masterclass and a home visit masterclass as well. Again, all the details are in the show notes.

As well as all this, I'm available to come and deliver training in person to your student or ASYE cohort.

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please don't hesitate to get in touch with me for an informal chat to find out more.

Thank you so much for listening. Like I do at the end of every single podcast, I want to encourage you to slow down

and take a pause with me before you go on to the rest of your day. Close your eyes if it feels comfortable,

or just soften your gaze.

Take a couple of deep breaths. And enjoy this moment of calm. Know that you can come back to this at [00:49:00] any time you need to. 

Headset Microphone (Sennheiser SCx5 USB MS)-8: Remember, you are doing an incredible job. Take care, and I'll see you for the next episode.