Things You Learn in Therapy
Things You Learn in Therapy
Ep 101: Laughter and Love in the Caregiver's Journey
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Caring for our aging parents isn't easy or fun or without its emotional ups and downs. Katie Williams, a former teacher and a stay-at-home mom, shares her raw and heartfelt journey in this episode of "Things You Learn in Therapy." Katie dives into the unexpected challenges and emotional tolls that come with being part of the "sandwich generation." From juggling the responsibilities of both parenting and caregiving to finding moments of joy on the dance floor, Katie's story is both relatable and inspiring. Her experiences shed light on the complexities of family dynamics and the importance of finding humor even in the most trying times.
The emotional, physical, and mental demands of caregiving are immense, but so is the importance of making our loved ones feel safe. But amidst the heavy responsibilities, we emphasize the necessity of open communication, selfless service, and the power of laughter. Join us for practical advice, emotional support, and a shared reminder that "we can do hard things" together.
This podcast is meant to be a resource for the general public, as well as fellow therapists/psychologists. It is NOT meant to replace the meaningful work of individual or family therapy. Please seek professional help in your area if you are struggling. #breakthestigma #makewordsmatter #thingsyoulearnintherapy #thingsyoulearnintherapypodcast
Feel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.com
www.bethtrammell.com
Hello listener, welcome back.
Speaker 1I'm your host, dr Beth Trammell, and this is Things you Learn in Therapy.
Speaker 1I am a psychologist and a professor of psychology at Indiana University East, where I'm also the director of the Masters in Mental Health Counseling Program, and I love talking to people about different topics that are, you know, often come up in therapy.
Speaker 1It's sort of the premise of this podcast, and, as I have been experiencing some things with my own parents who've been having some health concerns in the last year or two, I started to think about this idea of bringing to light some of the things that happen as our parents get older and some of the dynamics that change some of the emotions that change our perceptions of how things are going, and so I thought maybe we should do an episode with a few different people who have experienced that in their own lives, and so I'm grateful that Katie Williams is here today to share her story, and I look forward to doing a couple of more interviews with different people, and then we'll kind of have a wrap up session to sort of talk through this phenomenon that happens, because I think it's a really emotionally for some of us.
Speaker 1It's really tumultuous right. There's a lot of emotions that go into this, and I think anytime we can bring light to those things that we're experiencing, it's good news. So, katie, thank you for saying yes to being here. Can you introduce yourself and tell us one fun thing about you?
Speaker 2Okay, I am Katie Williams. I am married, I've got three kids, former teacher, been a stay at home mom for 15 years now. And one fun thing about me listen, I wasn't sure what to say here because you gave me about five 10 seconds max. I just went to a wedding this weekend. And one fun thing about me is I love a dance floor.
Speaker 1I love it. I love that too. Are you the kind of person who loves the dance floor when there are, like the line, dance songs out there, or are you like I'm free, I'm freestyling it?
Speaker 2So all of the above, except I don't, like I don't. I would love to know how I would love to know line dances. You know, like I don't know how, I don't know any of them and I don't know how you learn how to do them If you don't like, live near one where you just go, like do it all the time.
Speaker 1You need to practice.
Speaker 2You tubing it in my living room or something.
Speaker 1Or following the other people on the dance floor.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, it in my living room or something, or following the other people on the dance floor. Yeah, yeah, maybe that and bumping it, yeah, but if it's like a d like, I want to know it. If I'm going to go out there, I want to know how to do.
Speaker 1I want to know the steps so, okay, this is a fun thing about me that maybe people don't know, but my um freshman year of college, I took a line dancing class for credit so it was like it counted as like my, my kind of like pe credit or whatever in college and I took a line dancing class for credit.
Speaker 1So it was like it counted as like my, my kind of like PE credit or whatever in college and I took a line dancing class. Now, the line dancing teacher at the time was very lovely but he was not the hippest, and so it was mostly kind of classic country line dancing, which is fine and glorious, but it isn't all that helpful at a wedding.
Speaker 1No, no but I mean the electric slide, you know, and that are kind of country oriented I was totally down for. But it was so it was. It was such a fun class.
Speaker 2It sounds way more fun than my fitness walking, which was my PE credit, so I'm super jealous.
Speaker 1It was my very far. Second option was fitness walking. That was hilarious as well. Okay, so while we're going to shift topics a little bit from fitness walking and country line dancing, this topic taking care of our aging parents. You know, I have to be honest, my parents have had some health concerns lately and it I feel like one of the reasons it becomes challenging is because it almost sneaks up on you as a grown child of parents. I'm not sure we're really like thinking along the way, like, year after year, like, oh my gosh, there's going to come a time where I'm going to have to take care of my parents, and so it's almost like, oh, now I really have to take care of my parents, and then it, it, it brings to light, like all these different emotions, all these different thoughts, issues around mortality, issues around, you know, changes in priorities, and so I just want to hear from you, katie, what were some of the things that, for you, that really stand out when you think about taking care of aging parents?
Speaker 2To your point, though I think part of the reason that sneaks up on us is because, for most of us, we're raising kids. We've been raising kids. You know we are so wrapped up in, you know the newborn years and the toddler years, and then you know we're going through elementary and middle school and high school and we're so wrapped up in all of that and we are so busy with all of that that we forget our parents are also aging and and so then, once it hits us, then we're trying to juggle all of it because we're not done raising kids yet. So we're in this weird spot where we're still raising kids but we're also taking care of parents that in some ways, depending on what they have going on, can be kind of like having a toddler.
Speaker 2Again, depending on what you, what health issues you're dealing with, it can be really overwhelming, because I think there is that sense of oh my gosh, my kids, you know, are we have, we've got teenagers, you know, like things have gotten easier in a sense, at least physically or demanding, wise. They're driving now, but now that our kids are driving, maybe our parents can't drive, yeah, and so now we're running them to appointments and you know whatever, and so I think that's, that's the part where it sneaks up on you and it really can can give you some whiplash.
Speaker 1I hear, like some alluding to this in your, in your first description, that it's not just. I mean, it's about all of the different, the different amount of time you have to give right. So it's like the physical amount of time, but it's also like the emotional amount of time that you have to invest in both sides. I feel like there's this term, some sort of like sandwich generation or something it's some sort of allusion to a sandwich right when you're taking care of your parents and you're taking care of your kids.
Speaker 1Yep, and so I just don't think that yeah, yeah Go go ahead. No, I just was going to say I don't think that you. You don't think about that until you're in it.
Speaker 2Yeah, and then you're like dang. I don't really like this. This is not the most fun.
Speaker 1So thinking about, like the physical time that it takes, you know, even to go to appointments or to have them drive somewhere, but also also, also the emotional time that you're devoting to thinking about or feeling some of the feelings, that you're having psychological time or mental time where you're thinking about all the different things and carrying the load, when I think, as mothers we already carry a heavier load of that kind of mental and emotional labor. You know, as you think about those things, what stands out to you there.
Speaker 2My situation is this at the moment we have Scott's mom lives right next door to us. She has had dementia. The past three years have probably been. I mean, it's just progressively gotten more pronounced and involved and all of those things. When she moved, when she built a little house right next to ours, we didn't know that she had dementia. She, she probably had some signs. But you know, we just you know she's getting older, we kind of chalked it up to that. But now that she's right next to us it's every day and and I it's funny, I just came took her medicine, medicine to her, right before we got on this call and I am not the main caretaker of her, it's Scott's sister, who lives about five minutes away from us, and then it's Scott and then it's me, kind of depending on whether he, you know, because he works a full-time job. Now his sister went to part-time to help take care of her.
Speaker 1Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2And I'm home, and so I know that there's, I know that there's peace in that for them, knowing that I'm home and right next to her most days. You know I'm, I'm available. So, having said that, I feel like it takes less of a toll on me than it does them For one. It's, it's their mom, you know it's, it's my mother-in-law and I love and adore, and we do a lot of laughing about things that we otherwise would cry about, because it's just. It's just.
Speaker 2If you don't laugh about it, if you don't make light of it, it can just be really heavy, because really it most days it is something about what she has said or what she has done is heartbreaking to some degree, and so we just have, we just have to laugh about it, because the alternative is not what any of us want to do every day, but it is taxing in all of the ways. She remembers a lot of things from her childhood, but she will ask you I mean I think Scott Scott counted up one time he was taking her to the doctor and she asked him about 17 times if he wanted a Twix out of her purse in the time it took. That's exhausting because you know, the first time, and this is across the board with any story she tells the first time. You know, you hear it and you, oh really you know and you've probably heard it before, but it's the first time you heard it that day. So you know you can, but every time you hear it, to continue to act like it's the first time you heard it, it gets exhausting. Hear it to continue to act like it's the first time you heard it, it gets exhausting. But you have to.
Speaker 2The last thing we want to do is frustrate her because, honestly, she's living in a pretty happy place. I mean, she just said to me today which, again, it's one of those things that you know it's, it's easy to tear up at, because we've had those conversations. Do we look into a nursing home? Do we look into home healthcare, what you know? What do we do here? Because there are things that at times feel a little out of our you know, like are we doing the right thing here? But ultimately, you know, I'm standing over there with her today and we're looking at her flowers and she and she does this about every time I'm over there with her she comments on how nice it is out here and how peaceful and how safe she feels. I think if there's anything in the world we can do for our parents, it's to make them feel safe in the way that they made us feel safe when they were taking care of us. To me it's like okay, we are doing something right because she feels safe.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And so I think we've all just kind of it's like she will be there next to us until she would become a danger to herself.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And we're not there yet, and I pray we never get there, because I don't want her to ever have to go somewhere where she doesn't feel safe.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And I'm not sure, especially with dementia. Even if the nursing home is safe, I don't know that she would feel safe. Right, and it's all. You know. It's all how you perceive things and you know it is exhausting. It's exhausting the, the, the physical toll, the mental toll, the emotional toll, the who's going to take her to this appointment?
Speaker 2While we're juggling, you know me running kids and I always say if, if, if I'm taking her, make sure you schedule it for a time. I'm not taking kids here or there. But even just last week um was a couple of weeks ago I had to take her to an appointment and I had to run Abby to golf in between going and telling her granny. We got to get ready for this appointment. I have to take Abby to golf in between going and telling her granny. We got to get ready for this appointment. I have to take Abby to golf and then I'll be back. I come back with about 15 minutes to spare.
Speaker 2Thankfully, it was just a few minutes from our house in Albany and she's in the shower and I'm like granny, we got to go, hurry up. You know well where are we going. I mean just you know and and so I'm calling the doctor hey, we're going to be a few minutes late, you know, and hurrying her along, and she didn't have care in the world. It's like, well, what? So I want it. It's like my, my, my instinct was to get irritated.
Speaker 2Yeah, Like yeah, I told you we had an appointment, you know, but it's like she doesn't remember at all and so it's always like it's like I can, I'm going to get mad at the disease. I cannot get mad at her Right. It's such an important distinction.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think, kind of holding our human reaction adds to the exhaustion because, even though, like, logically and in my mind, I can say, like I'm mad at the disease, I'm not mad at her. It's so important that she feels safe, like you can hold on to all those things. But it's also like we have these initial reactions to things that our body feels my sense of being on time, my, my, my value of, you know, not letting people down or, you know, fill in the blanks, for whatever it is that lives inside of us and it doesn't live in her right now, you know is fully living on granny time, very different time than the rest of us live on, yeah.
Speaker 2And thankfully, you know. I called the doctor's office and I said, hey, we're going to be late. You know she has dementia and you know they were very, very kind about it, but taking her anywhere is an entire ordeal.
Speaker 1It really is. You know, one thing you said is that I'm kind of always available because you live next door. Yeah, and you kind of said it like well, you know, it's not that big a deal, I'm just always available.
Speaker 2I mean that's a lot yeah.
Speaker 1You know, even just on its own. You know, even if you don't have to step in, like there is a reason why you know those professions that are on call are on a rotation.
Speaker 2So my husband is in a profession where he is on call every third week and it's funny you say that because those weeks he is he can't rest, you know, the night before he goes on call it's the worst sleep of the month that he gets. And then every night he's on call for that week. He's expecting the phone to ring, and and so I think for I watch him work this job and come home exhausted and get home get, you know, get up early, early in the morning and go to bed later than he should and take care of his mom and go to bed later than he should and take care of his mom, and it takes a toll.
Speaker 2So, you know, like I said, we just, but what are you going to do? What are you going to do? And, and I you know, for some people she would already be in a nursing home, but I just, I don't know. I caretaking is such a huge responsibility, but I also feel like, just in general, on this earth, our purpose is to serve others, and especially those that are closest to us and those that have taken care of us. I mean, when Abby was born, um, she was in the NICU at Riley for two weeks and then we came home and we were terrified and Scott's mom lived with us for three months to help take the other two kids, so that I could basically solely focus on taking care of this medically fragile child.
Speaker 2Yeah, you know she dropped everything, so, and, and we all drop everything for our kids. Yeah, and so I think that's one of the things in this country especially, that we are not very good at once our parents get an age.
Speaker 1We're just not yeah.
Speaker 2And I just because I just think we can be selfish and we don't have that generational living here in this country, like many other places around the world do, and we don't have that reverence for older people. And the thing is, and I, you know, my, my grandpa's 98 and I just he hung the moon. I mean he hung the moon, but it's like I have two aunts that care for him and it's like it just wouldn't be any other way because you know these people cared for us, yeah, and we just kind of forget that and you know don't want to reciprocate and I don't know that's a tough one. It is tough, yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1Yeah, well, you know, in our family the thing that I absolutely agree, you know that I think we get kind of caught up in the day to day and the busyness of our own lives and then in our situation, our, our parents are not great at asking for help. And so you know they're like, well, you don't have to come, we're just fine. You know it's like, no, you're not fine, I am canceling things, I'm coming there. You know, and you know there's pros and cons.
Navigating the Caregiving Journey
Speaker 1It's a blessing and a curse to have your family live close and to have your family live, you know, a couple of hours, a couple of states, you know, a continent away. I think there are different dynamics that come from being far away versus being close. And so you know, for you to share some of the things of like that next door, right here, you to share some of the things of like that next door, right right here. I was just talking to a coworker a couple of days ago and she was saying every day I have to drive across town to take care of my you know, my mother, because there's always something that happens that she needs me to come over there and she's like it's like 20 minutes across town and it's. You know she's like. I will always do it and I am trying not to be ungrateful because I know I don't have much time left with her and it also is hard.
Speaker 2All of that can be true.
Speaker 1All of it's true, all at the same time.
Speaker 2Yes, you can feel resentment and bitterness and anger at the situation, while at the same time being grateful that you're able.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And and you know and have them close enough that you can do it. Yeah, I just think there's a lot of things that can all be true at the same time.
Speaker 1Yeah, I love that you said that. Okay, so we're wrapping up. I know we could. We could talk all day. I mean, I think we've just barely scratched the surface. But I'm grateful for your vulnerability and sharing. But any last thing that you're like, this was probably the biggest thing for me that you wanted to share today.
Speaker 2You know, I think I said I think I said those things. I think the biggest thing is just serving others. And serving, you know, putting our egos and the things that we feel entitled to really we have no, there's, we're not entitled to really much of anything really. Um, and so when you, when you just kind of shove those things to the side and are left with what should I be doing? What should I be doing? Typically the answer is serving others, in my humble opinion, and so and so that's, you know, that's what we do, and so it's, you know it's. It's getting meds ready for her every single day, making sure she's taking them, making sure she's showering, making sure her house is clean and safe and and that she feels safe. But it's hard and it's exhausting. And but you know, I don't. We've talked about Christy Bilby before, abby's second and fourth grade teacher that passed away, and she always said we can do hard things and I always think about that.
Speaker 2We can do hard things. We don't have to love them, we don't even have to like them, but we can do hard things.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's good. I couldn't agree more that. You know. What I heard from you is also this push toward safety like doing what you can to approach this service with a compassionate mindset that creates safety, and then like finding the light when you can, you know, finding laughter and finding light, because the heaviness can be all consuming. You know, even serving right, it's like it can be all consuming, yeah, and so thanks for coming and being vulnerable and sharing your story, and I'm, I'm just, yeah, I'm just grateful for the person that you are as a model for this work for other people.
Speaker 2Well, thank you for having me. I'm so glad that it worked out. I you know, I'm always willing to have a conversation, and a hard conversation. I love having a hard conversation.
Speaker 1And I think that that's the other thing that I heard from you, and your story too is this, this piece of communication that we may not always do well, you know, I think sometimes we get overwhelmed with the emotion. Or you know, I think sometimes we get overwhelmed with the emotion, or you know that all those things can be true all at once, and then we don't want to communicate about it, and then I think that that is when it becomes even more consuming.
Speaker 2Yeah, you got to talk about it. You got to talk about it.
Speaker 1You got to talk about it.
Speaker 2You got to talk about it.
Speaker 1You're also. You're a former educator, but you're also like. You're also like a psychologist at heart. You know, you're just like underneath it all.
Speaker 2I just like schooling. Maybe it really is.
Speaker 1It really is. Oh boy, okay, well, thank you Katie, thank you, listener, for being here and until next time stay safe and stay well, all Ciao.
