Insight into Ending Female Genital Mutilation /Circumcision in The Gambia: Breaking the Silence - Featuring Fatou Baldeh Founder Women in Liberation and Leadership -WILL

Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) is a deeply rooted cultural practice that has devastating consequences for young girls and women. In this episode, we sit down with Fatou Balde, CEO of Women in Liberation and Leadership, who shares her poignant personal journey as an FGM survivor. Fatou offers a profound exploration into the cultural and traditional origins of FGM in The Gambia, clearing up misconceptions about its ties to religious practices, particularly Islam. She brings to the table a compelling argument backed by data and community evidence, highlighting the severe health implications and human rights violations that FGM imposes.

Our discussion moves to the complex gender dynamics that fuel the FGM debate, debunking the misleading distinction between circumcision and mutilation. Fatou passionately argues against any form of genital cutting, revealing the harmful reality faced by girls in regions where FGM is prevalent. We investigate the motivations behind parliament members and religious leaders' support for FGM under the guise of cultural acceptance, and underscore the critical need for more women in decision-making roles. By educating girls about their bodies, we aim to empower them to make informed decisions and protect their rights.

The conversation doesn't stop at highlighting the issue; we delve into actionable solutions. Fatou discusses the importance of community engagement and open dialogues to dismantle the silence around FGM. We touch upon the vital role of journalists and medical professionals in raising awareness and advocating for change. Emphasis is placed on supporting FGM survivors through comprehensive services and maintaining strict laws to prevent backslides in women's rights. Join us as we champion the younger generation's potential to eradicate FGM and celebrate the tireless efforts of grassroots movements and civil society organizations in this critical fight.

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:10

Welcome to the new series of the Victim Podcast, Breaking the Silence. I am Lamin Fadera. In our today's podcast, we will be speaking to the CEO of Women in Liberation and Leadership, Fatou Palde.

Speaker 3: 0:25

FGM is practiced across the world in many areas, but predominantly it's practiced more in Africa. Predominantly, fgm is practiced more in Africa, so this is why a lot of people associate the practice to us.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Why do people associate FGM with religion?

Speaker 3: 0:44

As a Muslim woman, I believe that we see, the best examples of a good Muslim is the Prophet, who had many daughters, who had wives, and there is no record that FGM was practiced on any of those female relatives of the Prophet, on any of those female relatives of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. So for me, just that is enough to tell me that FGM is not a religious requirement.

Speaker 3: 1:15

Well is FGM religious or a cultural belief in the Gambia. So FGM it's a practice that is really rooted in cultural beliefs, traditional beliefs. In the Gambia, culture and tradition and religion are so mixed and so embedded that it is very difficult for people to separate the two. So you will hear that a lot of people will give the justification that FGM is religious, especially connecting it to Islam.

Speaker 2: 1:41

So what are the medical practitioners saying about the FGM?

Speaker 3: 1:45

Medical professionals, even at the National Assembly, have come up and testified to show how, from their experience, what they've seen, how FGM impacts women. So what else do we need? We need to move away from this harm and come up with other strategies on supporting women and girls and advancing the country.

Speaker 2: 2:04

So what role does journalists have to play in the fight against FGM?

Speaker 3: 2:09

Sometimes I speak to journalists and again that question is directed at me like oh, but they say that you are doing this for money. But I'm like okay, some of us we actually have careers, we have qualifications. I have a bachelor's degree, I have a master's degree, I am doing a PhD. I could be working anywhere else I want. I choose to do this work because I am passionate about seeing girls and women living happily and freely, without harm, and this is why I do the work that I do without harm, and this is why I do the work that I do With this and a lot more.

Speaker 2: 2:47

you will hear in this special interview our victim podcast. I said to jam my heart with Fatou Balde, the founder of Women in Liberation and Leadership. You can follow the victim podcast on Facebook, instagram or, better still, on Twitter.

Speaker 1: 3:02

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Victims Podcast, and today we have a very special guest in the studio. But I'll allow him to introduce herself and she will tell you who she is and her background and also how she became involved in the fight against FGM. So this is the second episode of the series on the FGM in the Gambia and, yes, welcome on the show.

Speaker 3: 3:30

Thank you, aisha. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Fatou Balde. I am a women's rights advocate. I am also a survivor of female genital mutilation.

Speaker 1: 3:41

I run the organization called Women in Liberation and Leadership, which I founded to create a platform to support and empower women rights activists, who have tirelessly been working on women issues in the Gambia, especially the issue of FGM, and also issues that has to do with transitional justice processes During the transitional justice process, issues that are affecting women and girls in the Gambia. So for our listeners who might not be familiar with FGM, can you briefly explain to the listeners what female genital mutilation or female genital circumcision is and the different forms it takes?

Speaker 3: 4:34

Female genital mutilation is the part or total removal of the female genitals for non-medical reasons. There are different forms to this. In the Gambian context we have type 1, which involves the removal of the hood of the clitoris, type 2, which may involve the removal of the clitoris and the labias, that's the outside lips. And type three can involve stitching of the genitals. In most of our context here we know that in some cases they do a type where the girl's opening, the vaginal opening, is blocked.

Speaker 3: 5:17

So, speaking to a lot of survivors sometimes and of course people who perform FGM, the cutters themselves, the ngan Simbas as we call them, they would explain that sometimes it's the blood that they use, like when they cut the girl, the blood that comes out and they use some herbs and mix it to block the opening of the vagina. So those are the three main types that are practiced in the Gambia, but globally there are other types that are also. So that is why the definitions, as per the World Health Organization, involves type 4, which may involve anything else that is done to the female genitalia for non-medical reasons, be it stretching of the labias or any other, or pricking or anything else with those happen, and I just wanted to add that, even though we are talking about the context of Gambia, fgm is practiced across the world in many areas, but predominantly it's practiced more in Africa. Predominantly, fgm is practiced more in Africa, so this is why a lot of people associate the practice to us yeah, africans.

Speaker 1: 6:21

Yes. So what are the cultural and social reasons behind the practice, and cultural reasons as well?

Speaker 3: 6:50

So FGM it's a practice that is really rooted in cultural beliefs, traditional beliefs. In the Gambia culture and tradition and religion are so mixed and so embedded that it is very difficult for people to separate the two. So you will hear that a lot of people will give the justification that FGM is religious, especially connecting it to Islam. But we know that FGM predates Islam. We know that other people who have other religious beliefs practice FGM. So, for example, christians and others do practice FGM. So because of that, you can't really say FGM is an Islamic requirement. But also, for me, as a Muslim woman, I believe that we see the best examples of a good Muslim is the Prophet. The best examples of a good Muslim is the Prophet, salallahu alayhi wa sallam, who had many daughters, who had wives, and there is no record that FGM was practiced on any of those female relatives of the Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam. So for me, just that is enough to tell me that FGM is not a religious requirement.

Speaker 3: 8:03

However, on the culture and traditional aspect, because FGM is deeply rooted and it's been practiced in our communities for centuries, many people associate it to many beliefs, which I believe are myths. So, for example, people believe that if girls are not caught, they are not clean, that they smell. People believe that the clitoris if you don't remove it, it will grow up to be like a penis. Others believe that, in fact, one of the weirdest beliefs that I've had is that if girls are not caught when they're delivering babies, that the clitoris can block the child from coming out and it can lead to the death of both the mother or the child. So there are lots of myths and misconceptions, but also the biggest one, especially within Gambian communities people believe that FGM prevents girls from having early sexual debate, you prevent them from getting pregnant, or that when you marry a girl who is caught, she is more likely not to be promiscuous. So because of all those beliefs, people continue the practice. However, we know that all these things are myths and they are just deeply rooted within our society.

Speaker 1: 9:22

Thank you very much, fatou. To our listeners. If you listen to what Fatou is trying to tell us is the cultural beliefs and social beliefs that we have in the Gambia, especially in the Gambia with regards to FGM, and I think these are beliefs that we hear every day, and some would say certain things that somebody like me, who maybe might not be very much involved in FGM, will be like where are they getting these from? Because sometimes some of the things they say for example, saying that if the girl is being caught might not get pregnant easily you know the girl would be able to hold herself. That is how they say it.

Speaker 1: 10:05

So these are things that we hear people say and I think some of these things, as we've mentioned, they're just myth and this is just a way of maybe convincing people to do it to protect their girl child, and FGM obviously cannot make a girl not to, you know, have early sex and stuff. So, going to the next conversation and question Okay, we all know that currently we have a private member bill that came in Parliament to repeal the FGM law and I know a lot of work had been done with regards to making sure the bill is not being repealed. So what efforts have you been doing since this private member bill came to the parliament and what are the advocacy work that you've done and what are some of the engagement and conversations around ensuring that this bill is not repealed?

Speaker 3: 11:01

Thank you. Thank you again, aisha. So I think you're right.

Speaker 3: 11:07

Many people are aware that at the moment the Gambia parliament is considering repealing the FGM law that is already existing. We find that the members of parliament, the people reviewing the bill, but also the pro-FGM camp, argue that FGM has no effects on girls, that in the Gambia we actually don't practice FGM, that we practice circumcision. For me it doesn't matter whether it's circumcision or it's mutilation or whichever, for my stance is that any of those forms shouldn't happen to the girl child. They should leave girls the way they are. They shouldn't touch their genitals. That's my point. But of course, for the sake of argument, especially for the MPs who, for example, are claiming that in the Gambia we don't mutilate, when they talk about circumcision the way they talk about that, I have walked across communities in this country. I haven't come across any girl that has been given that type of cutting, not that even what they are saying is acceptable, but I haven't even seen that what really happens in the Gambia is mutilation. You know, the most recent data is showing us the most common type of FGM in the Gambia is FGM type 2, which involves the removal of the whole clitoris and, in some cases the labias, the outside lips of the vagina. We research is showing us that that is the most common in the Gambia. But in our engagement at the community level, parents are also telling us that they are actually stitching their daughters because of this fear of their daughters getting pregnant outside of wedlock, because they fear and women will tell you so because of that. They feel that that's the way to control girls from early sexual debate and that can contribute towards them not having teenage pregnancy or pregnancy outside of wedlock. So we are having those issues.

Speaker 3: 13:17

So, as per the committee, not just Will as in our organization, women-led organization, organizations working on women and human rights have all come together one to provide evidence to the committee to make sure that they understand how FGM impacts women and girls in this country. We've also used this opportunity to investigate and come out with research and evidence that has been gathered in the Gambia to show how women and girls are affected by female genital mutilation. We have also gone around the communities and brought out survivors who've been to the parliament in front of these MPs to show them, to explain how FGM is impacting women and girls. And for me, just on that point, I think that anybody, because sometimes there is this debate that, oh, we are not an organization that is working on FGM, so we shouldn't work on FGM. Or the fact that, for example, you work on transitional justice, then FGM is a different. But FGM is an issue of gender. It's gender discrimination, it's violence against women. So if you are promoting human rights and women's rights are human rights, if you are promoting human rights and the protections of human rights, then FGM should be your problem as well. You should incorporate that in the work that you do.

Speaker 3: 14:42

On the broader angle, we've seen how FGM, for example, at the National Assembly all the people who are pushing to repeal this bill are men. You are not seeing women standing there and saying if you go to the community, it's also the same. It's the men that are saying that this FGM bill needs to be repealed. But you speak to the average Gambian woman, a Gambian girl. We are all saying no, we don't want this. We want to see that we have these protections. So the reality is we need more women in decision-making positions. We need to empower women so that they understand their bodies, especially for young girls, so that they have the agency, they have the information to make decisions that are in the best interest of themselves.

Speaker 1: 15:33

Thank you very much, especially having women to lead processes and also having conversations whereby women have to be the ones to make these decisions, because, at the end of the day, if you look at the FGM conversation, even online, you have men that you know, you have men that will say certain things that I'm like, wow, this is crazy. And I think, for the most part, conversations around FGM should be driven by women, and I think that is what we lack currently in this issue of the repeal of FGM. So, during the conversations with the parliamentarians, what are some of the main arguments that they bring forward to say that the bill should be repealed?

Speaker 3: 16:19

The main arguments of the MPs, but also religious leaders as well, is that in the Gambia we don't practice mutilation, that we do circumcision and, according to them, circumcision is something that the Islamic religion accepts. Islam accepts them. Circumcision is something that the Islamic religion accepts, but for us we are saying for example, survivors like me we are saying that that circumcision that you are talking about doesn't even exist in this country. Even if it as I said as a disclaimer even before even if that existed, we are against that. We don't want that to happen. Their main argument is that, but also linking it back to my earlier response, is that they believe that it can control women's sexuality. But for me, again, that does not make any sense, because we've seen that in our communities, in communities where they have high prevalence of FGM, they are also struggling with teenage pregnancy. So if FGM really prevented girls from early sexual experiences, do you think that we would have had that high level of teenage pregnancy? The reality is we don't have access to comprehensive education, quality access to comprehensive education where boys and girls are educated on how to look after themselves, how to make informed choices about their bodies. We also know that there is a high rate of sexual and gender-based violence, which in some cases results to teenage pregnancies. We need to address those issues, but not expose girls to teenage pregnancy.

Speaker 3: 17:56

Another argument that the pro-FGM uses is that activists or women's rights advocate like myself are being paid to make up stories about our religion, about our culture, and they have painted us as people who are against our religion. Yeah, that's how. But for me, islam, the Islam that I love, the Islam that I follow, is one that has empathy. That's how. But for me, islam, the Islam that I love, the Islam that I follow, is one that has empathy, that is peaceful, that empowers women, and Islam doesn't promote anything that puts harm on an individual. And FGM has been proven to harm women and girls. Medical professionals, even at the National Assembly, have come up and testified to show how, from their experience, what they've seen, how FGM impacts women. So what else do we need? We need to move away from this harm and come up with other strategies on supporting women and girls and advancing the country.

Speaker 1: 18:51

Thank you very much, fatou. We need to move forward. We need to move forward on things that would advance the country, not to draw us back from where we came from. So, with regards to community engagements, I dangers of FGM and encourage the practice to be encouraged, to be discouraged, sorry.

Speaker 3: 19:23

Yes, and firstly for me, I think community engagement should be continuous, should not be a one-off thing. We really need to get out of our communities and talk about women in general, issues affecting women, issues affecting women, issues of gender equality. This discourse on whether the ban stays or not has really affected our communities. The misinformation that has been spread has reached our communities because we know that the pro-FGM have been using WhatsApp audios, they've been using the mosque during Friday prayers to promote the cutting of girls, and these informations have reached our communities where, after decades of hard work to shift the way that people were thinking about FGM, this narration is being overpowered by the conversation right now that is really speculating and making wrong information on why women should continue to be caught. Therefore, it is very important that civil society organizations, grassroots organizations, go out in the community to engage our people, both women, men, boys and girls, to educate them about the impact of FGM. I think if the communities themselves decide that we don't want this practice, then it doesn't matter what the lawmakers say, if the law is there or not. If communities have decided to abandon FGM, then it doesn't matter what they want to do For sustainability to make sure that FGM is ended. It must be moved at the grassroots. It must be that communities come out. So for us, our team is out at the community level across the country. We are going to each region. Unfortunately, we can't cover all communities, but I know that there are other organizations as well that are doing amazing work, just like we are, to make sure that we reach our communities across the country, particularly in the rural regions where they have high prevalence of FGM.

Speaker 3: 21:18

The national prevalence of female genital mutilation in the Gambia, according to recent, most recent statistics from UNICEF, is 73% of Gambian women between the age of 15 to 49 have been caught. However, in some communities in the rural area, for example in URR, there are communities where FGM prevalence is 98%. You also go to communities such as Lower River Region, lrr. Our experience in LRR is that they are still in huge support of the continuation of the practice. However, if you go to communities, for example Eseo or Janjambure, we've seen that in those communities the support for FGM has reduced. In fact, communities are reporting that FGM is not a problem for them now because for them it's not a practice, that they are continuing.

Speaker 3: 22:06

But also, if you look at those two specific communities, there has been a lot of interventions, community awareness. They have community policing. There's a lot of work so we can drive experience from these two areas. What has been done in these two areas to reduce the prevalence and to change perception so that we can replicate that in communities like LRR? Or communities like Kerawan in North Bank, where we went, where this man was telling us that for him, if a woman who hasn't been caught gives him water, he will never forgive that woman. In their community they believe that if you are not caught, they shouldn't eat your food, they shouldn't drink your water. The negative perception about women who have not been caught in that community left me speechless.

Speaker 1: 22:54

So this is serious. Then If this is how people think about FGM if you're not being caught, people should not eat your food, People should not drink your water Then there's a lot of work that needs to be done still. And going back to the other question would be I know there's a lot of organization doing work in the grassroots level and stuff, a lot of organizations doing work in the grassroots level and stuff. So what are some of the support, what are the support systems that are currently in place in the Gambia and what more needs to be done to make sure that these supports reach to the people?

Speaker 3: 23:28

that it's supposed to reach. Thank you, yes. I think one challenge that we have had throughout this whole discourse is the fact that civil society organizations in the Gambia were not in a position where, when this whole problem started, we could just get up and go to the communities or we could take up, like what we are doing now take the conversations on radio, on podcasts, on TV. We couldn't do that because we didn't have the resources for that. On TV, we couldn't do that because we didn't have the resources for that. And also, I think, because of this narrative that people who are advocating against FGM are doing it for money, many people take a step back from that and they don't even want to go and apply for funds because you don't want to be seen as someone who is doing this for money. So I think that was one big challenge that affected us Recently. We are seeing support from partners who are coming out to support us so that we can reach our communities, we can educate our communities, but also interventions that would speak directly to the policymakers, who at the moment, have the final say as to what happens next. So we've been engaging in those things and for me, I encourage all civil society organizations, but also our partners. We cannot end FGM without resources. This is a deeply rooted if you expect us excuse me, if you expect us to go to the communities, that requires resources, our capacity, our transportation. When we call people, how do we start that conversation? And, in accordance with our norms and values, the good ones that we promote when we go to these communities, we need to take colonnades, we need to get people together, we need to give them food, we need to transport them and drinks. We need to get people together, we need to give them food, we need to transport the phone and drinks. So those are expectations that communities have. When we go to these communities, we can't just turn up like that and we need those resources. But also, most importantly, we need to empower civil society organizations so that they have the structures that when such emergencies happen, they can just get up and respond to that.

Speaker 3: 25:39

And for me and I would like to address that, because sometimes I speak to journalists and again that question is directed at me like oh, but they say that, they say you are doing this for money. But I'm like, okay, some of us, we actually have careers, we have qualifications, I have a bachelor's degree, I have a master's degree, I am doing a PhD. I could be working anywhere else I want. I choose to do this work because I am passionate about seeing girls and women living happily and freely, without harm, and this is why I do the work that I do, freely, without harm, and this is why I do the work that I do.

Speaker 3: 26:19

Having said that, I do expect to be paid, because I also have responsibilities, and I think that is something that we need to acknowledge as much as we are doing this, the people who are saying that to us. They also get paid from their jobs. I expect to be paid for the work that I do. I'm not volunteering, and I think we CSOs CSOs leaders, women leaders, human rights advocates should really come out of that, because I think that is really affecting us because of that fear. It is because, also, you don't hear anybody say this about other organizations or other institutions that are working on any other issues. It is mostly on issues relating to women, issues relating to gender or issues that are confronting gender norms that are accepted because we are trying to change the status quo. We are seen as these people who are doing this thing for money, and I don't think that is fair.

Speaker 1: 27:13

Thank you very much. I think, fatou, that is a very important point, because what happens is, like you've mentioned, they don't say that to other organizations, but they do attack human rights and people that are working on human rights, people that are activists. They tend to things that you hear. It's heartbreaking. Recently there was this journalist who was talking about, you know, people that were working at the victim center. They're just there for themselves, they are not doing anything for the victims, and I think that's a misleading statement Because at the end of the day and in fact, he said dollars, you know, and when you say dollars like if you say dollars, what are you trying to tell that person? Okay, they received dollars, and then what are they doing for the victims?

Speaker 1: 28:17

I think the journalists need to be very responsible in the way they report these things and, because they have to be a party to the process, they need to support. Sometimes you can agree to disagree, but let it be constructive. Let it be in a way whereby you know you are not making things up or tainting individuals, as they are there for themselves. So I think that was very important for you to point out. So we're almost there. So I think I wanted to.

Speaker 1: 28:51

There was this question that I wanted to ask with regards to the support that you guys need from international partners, both national and international partners, which I think you've touched on that you need resources to be able to campaign for FGM in the Gambia and stuff. So, yeah, so we just I think you've already answered that, so we're just going to go into what are the hopes and plans for the future in terms of eradicating FGM in the Gambia. I know it's a struggle, but also the other question would be how do you see the role of youth and future generation in the fight against FGM in the Gambia? Thank you.

Speaker 3: 29:29

Wow. You know, Aisha, that's very interesting and I often say to people that for us at the moment, fighting to maintain the law is one thing. What happens after this whole debate? Whether the law stays or not, misconceptions have already reached our communities Already. The good work that has been done, all the great achievements over the past decades a lot of it has been undone because of this within last year the conversation on FGM.

Speaker 3: 30:07

So we have a lot of challenges. We really need to get back into our communities, we need to occupy all spaces and we need to normalize having conversations on how FGM affects women, Because the way that FGM has continuously been perpetuated has been promoted by silencing women, Because we have not been given platforms. In fact, we used to be shamed for speaking out about how FGM affects people. So if you came out and I say and I've spoken to a lot of survivors I remember when I was caught I was told that if I speak about what happened to me on that day, the old woman will come and cut me again. That is a way of reinforcing silence, yeah, and so we need to break that silence from survivors and speak up so that people appreciate how FGM affects women and girls. We also want to see that these laws are implemented. You'll agree with me Gambia we have so many beautiful laws around protecting women and empowering women.

Speaker 3: 31:08

The issue is implementation, enforcement of the law. That's the problem. We continue to see prejudice within the law enforcement officials, within the judiciary, when it comes to issues of not just FGM, women's and sexual and gender-based violence in general. I like that you brought the media, because the media has a big role to play. They have a huge role to play to educate and also to share the right information, but what we find is the same prejudice we are seeing within the these structures.

Speaker 3: 31:41

We are also seeing it within the media the way they report cases of sexual and gender-based violence in general. You will see in the report the way that the the victim blame, re-stigmatize and and re-traumatize victims. We've seen that over and over and we've seen the biasness in reporting. So this is why another angle that we need to really take is educating media to be gender sensitive in their reporting and to be fair when they report, to bring both sides of the story. With regards to young people as well, I think they have the biggest role to play. Fgm can be ended in a generation. If the next generation do not cut their girls, we are in a bigger position to end FGM. If you do not cut your girl, she will not cut her girl. So that's what we need to do.

Speaker 1: 32:33

You do not cut your girl, she will not cut her girl. I think the future generation have a big role to play to ensure that FGM is a thing of the past in Gambia, and also making sure women and girls are protected. And also to the media. I think you have to be responsible when you're reporting issues of FGM and, as well, people that are in the security service, which is the police as well, should act on cases of FGM, making sure the judiciary as well, to ensure cases of FGM and female what is it called sexual and gender-based violence are prosecuted. Perpetrators are prosecuted. This way, people would not dare to harm a woman anymore in the Gambia. So what message would you have, would you like to share with our listeners, especially those that are directly or indirectly affected by FGM, and how can people get involved to support the work of FGM and a broader movement about FGM in the Gambia?

Speaker 3: 33:40

I think for me, my message when it comes to female genital mutilation cutting, especially for survivors. The impact of FGM on women is normalized in our society. So often, when even women are faced with complications, they do not associate it to FGM. With complications, they do not associate it to FGM, and this is why many people will disagree that FGM affects people in a certain way. So again, I'm going to repeat this is why, for me, it's so important for us to normalize these conversations and to share that information with young girls, with women, so that they recognize how FGM affects them, but also to say that there are support services available. I remember just last week or a few weeks ago, aisha, you sent me a case, an FGM case, and we were able to help her. She was infibulated, that is, she was ticked, so we were able to take her to the hospital and have her support. Last week she had her procedure done, the operation done, and have her support. Last week she had her procedure done, the operation done. So if you are listening to this podcast and you are someone who needs help around that area, you can contact us and there are support services available. There are one-stop centers. There are gynecologists in the country that are providing that support to victims and survivors of FGM. If you are in that situation and you need help, you can contact people. Or if there is anything that you need to understand, there are a lot of civil society organizations, not just us. Just look out for any that is close to you that you can reach out to that may be able to provide you support.

Speaker 3: 35:15

And finally, for me, we must ensure that the law against female genital mutilation is maintained, because if they succeed in repealing this law, they will come after all the laws that we have to protect women and girls. They will come after child marriage. For me, I'm even saying that they will end up saying that we women and girls shouldn't be educated because we are knowing so much. Now. Imagine it's because we are educated and we are aware. That's why, aisha, you and I are sitting here and having this conversation. We are empowered. We need to empower more women and girls to be able to occupy these spaces and my fear is that if these people continue to succeed, they will come again after us to take away all the rights that we have. So this is a starting point and we must show them that we are not going to let go. Women and girls in the Gambia are ready to fight to maintain our rights in this country.

Speaker 1: 36:10

Thank you very much, fatou. Women and girls are ready in this country to maintain their rights in this country. That was Fatou Balde, the Chief Executive Officer of Women in Liberation and Leadership, talking on the Victims Podcast on the segment for the Breaking the Silence series on the issue of FGM in the Gambia. Thank you again, fatou, for coming on the Victims Podcast to discuss this very important, to have this very important conversation, which is really, you know, which is really, which is a great step towards ensuring that the FGM bill is not repealed in the Gambia and to ensure women and girls in the Gambia are protected and they keep their. The women and girls are very key in our society to ensure that they make very good decisions as well lead to conversations around their rights and also their responsibilities in the country. Thank you again for coming to the Victims Podcast.

Speaker 2: 37:09

All right. Thank you so much, and that was the conversation of Victim Podcast, the founder, Esadu Jame Hart, with the CEO of Women in Liberation and Leadership, Fatou Balde. Many thanks to you for listening. Don't forget to follow the Victim Podcast on Instagram, Facebook or BetterSteel on Twitter. You can also download and share the link of the Victim Podcast. If you don't listen to the other podcasts on the Victim Podcast series, you can go check on the link, download and listen to the other episode that you have never listened before. Have a nice day Until we come on your way another time. Another conversation, breaking the silence. Thank you.