SEEing Change in Women's Sports

⚽  📣 Calling all soccer fans!! We are excited to welcome two-time World Cup champion,  Olympic gold medalist, and ESPN women's sports commentator, Julie Foudy,  to this episode of SEE Change.  In this fun conversation, Julie talks about her storied career path both on and off the field, the upcoming Olympic team, the moment women's sports are having right now, and the next generation of female athletes! ⚽ 🥇 

You can follow Julie and learn more about her story by following here:

Facebook:  Julie Foudy
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ABOUT R. Seelaus & Co., Inc.
Annie Seelaus is CEO of R. Seelaus & Co., Inc. The firm is a certified women's business enterprise ("WBE") and has grown into a full-service financial firm that is mission-driven in its commitment to creating more opportunities for women in financial services. R. Seelaus & Co., Inc., and its subsidiaries offer investment advisory, asset management, capital markets, brokerage, fixed income and equity trading, institutional sales, leveraged finance, and insurance services. The R. Seelaus & Co., LLC subsidiary is a broker-dealer registered with the SEC and a member of FINRA, and the subsidiary Seelaus Asset Management, LLC, is an SEC Registered Investment Advisor ("RIA"). With various fixed-income trading desks and more than seventy professionals, both entities serve individuals, families, public and private companies, non-profit organizations, and institutional investors. The firm has offices in New Jersey, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, North Carolina, and Massachusetts. For more information about R. Seelaus & Co., and its subsidiaries visit www.rseelaus.com

Transcript

Annie: Welcome to SEE Change, the podcast dedicated to telling the stories of amazing women out there changing the world. I'm Annie Silas, the host of SEE Change, and I'm thrilled to welcome today's guest, Julie Foudy, former captain of the U. S. Women's National Soccer Team and one of the most accomplished female soccer players in the world.

Foudy was a midfielder for the U. S. Women's National Team from 1987 through 2004, serving as the team's captain from 2000 through her retirement. In her 17 year national team tenure, the U. S. women won two FIFA Women's World Cup titles, captured two Olympic gold medals, and a silver, and became one of the most successful national soccer teams ever in the sport.

Since her retirement, Julie has served as one of the commentators on ESPN, providing commentary and reporting. on U. S. women's soccer and following the national team. We can look out for her this spring and summer heading into the Olympics. Most of all, I'm an enormous fan of Julie and her team and just thrilled to have the opportunity to talk to her today.

Welcome, Julie. Thank you so much for being on SEE Change with us today. Obviously one of the most recognizable women's soccer players in U. S. history. Olympian, World Cup winner commentator, advocate for women in sports. It's so wonderful to have you here and there's just so much that I'd love to hear about and, and dive in on.

Julie: Right on. Let's go. I love it. So I'm chugging coffee. 

Annie: So you'll be all pepped up. So just starting out with kind of where we are at this moment in sports and in women's sports, it feels so much like a moment much like it did when you and your team kind of first hit the scene and we're receiving such a great response.

And now with what's going on with Caitlin Clark and the WNBA, what we're seeing with women's professional hockey some of the attention women's sports is getting in college. What do you think about that? Is this a moment in time and, and are you able to connect what you and your team did historically to where we are now?

Julie: Yeah, it's for sure a moment. I mean, the difference with this one. is similar to what we thought in 1999 with winning that World Cup, you know, 25 years ago, which was of course a big moment. We thought it would become a movement. And it never did. Because we literally were like, Come on everyone! I was just telling a story the other day at an ESPN conference of, you know, the movie with Will Ferrell, where he's like, Who's going streaking?

And like,  no one was behind us, like, Let's go! This is a moment we want to make into a movement. And I'm honestly very surprised it took another 25 years for us to feel that way, as we have had these moments. But this one feels very different. Obviously, you're seeing it on multiple sports, multiple levels.

It's not just one event. It's, you know, across basketball, of course, as you were saying with Caitlin Clark. It's across globally with soccer and women's soccer in particular. And everywhere you go with women's sports, professional ice hockey right now, they, they launched their women's league and they're crushing it with their attendance, you know, just packed a stadium sold out in like two hours with 21, 000 people.

So it's everywhere. And. So it's not just going to be a moment like it was 25 years ago. I really think this movement is here and it's here to stay. And honestly, you know, Annie, as you know, in, in your line of business, like we're just starting to scratch the surface with people investing in women's sports.

And now you're seeing institutional investors wanting to get in. And there is much more of a return. Angel city is a perfect example, you know, where I am part owner there. We bought that team for 2. 5 million and it's now valued at 180 million. And I think that's probably undervalued. So. There is, there is a market, there is excitement around it, and I don't think it will just be a moment, like 25 years ago, it will be a movement that stays with us, and this is just the start of it.

Annie: I'm so glad to hear you say that. When you look back at that moment in 1999 do you think that the makings of the movement were there, but that, you know, the media wasn't ready for it, or didn't buy in? 

Julie: Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, someone once said to me back in that moment is this a moment or is this just an epiphany?  I'm sorry, is this what was the word he used? Is this a moment or is this oh, an anomaly.  He said and I said, I hope it's not an anomaly. Like, our goal is for this to be the standard. It proved that he was, he was right. It was a bit of an anomaly in terms of an outlier. And I think We didn't have social media, social media equalizes the game a lot.

I think that we didn't have the infrastructure in terms of women owning teams, women in a position to put money into companies, women at the table. Women making decisions in terms of what's going, for example, at ESPN even, or any media company where you have a lot more women now having a say in what is on air and what gets pushed out to linear TV.

And so I don't think any of that was in place. And I don't think we have the global movement you're seeing now as well around women's sports. I mean, everyone in America, because of title nine knew that.  sports were important and, and valued, but you don't see it like you do on a global stage now.

Annie: And do you have any insight into, into the disconnect historically and, and less so today, because I do think we've come a long way, but it does seem like we've had historically support around female athletes and individual sports and those kinds of individual stars like tennis or gymnastics or in some of those realms.

I think you guys were really the first team sport. that people got behind a full women's team sport. And I think, you know, that maybe didn't create a movement, you know, at that level in this country, but it certainly did. I think for young girls starting in that sport and understanding what was possible in a team sport do you see that as still a challenge?

You think that there's a disconnect there  with team sports, like the idea of team sports yet and getting behind them for women?

Julie: Yeah, I do think, you know, you, you have a lot of team sports that It's expert for leagues. It's very expensive  to run a league with a bunch of teams. As we've seen the WNBA, you know, now three decades in and our women's professional league for soccers, It's a third iteration, but it's in its, I think, 11th year, maybe 12th year now.

And so you are seeing much more success, but you didn't have the longevity of the team sports like you had, you know, NBA, NFL, MLB, MLS. They've been around for a lot longer. And I think that they, they, they started a lot earlier, obviously. And it's, you know, the cultural impact that has of years and years of team sports on the men's side.

And you just didn't have it professionally on the women's side, I think is an inhibitor. I mean, LPGA, Women's Tennis Association, all those individual sports have been around for decades.  LPGA was the very first women's pro league you know, Billie Jean and WTA, you know, breaking off back in the seventies.

So they've had decades. So I think we got going a little bit later on the team side. Yeah. You're starting to see that. Evolution in terms of traction, obviously WNBA this year, and especially the Caitlin Clark effect is, you know, taking hold in the professional ranks as well. Now that she moves from Iowa to play in Indiana and stays in the Midwest.

I mean, she's not even in a big market. Think about that. Right, right. It's amazing. She's still been able to have that effect in these small Midwestern markets, which is, says something as well. So. But I do think that, you know, there's still so much with team sports that we we haven't even given attention to.

I mean, we have one of the best lacrosse teams in the world that wins championship after championship, and you don't really hear much about them. You know, you go down the list softball and and and So I think that we still have, as I was saying earlier, there's so much more that's gonna, I think, grow and blossom in women's sports.

And I think a lot of those team sports that haven't gotten any attention will be part of that, I hope.

Annie: Yeah. There was even that it was volleyball team, right? In Nebraska. That's about that stadium. Yeah. I mean, how cool is that?

Julie: Yeah. And you know, that that's, that is one that just baffles me. Like women's volleyball won an Olympic gold medal at the last Olympics.

And the indoor team is so good. They're so fun to watch. And they're gorgeous human beings on top of it. Like, how is that not attracting eyeballs and attention? And they haven't had the traction. I mean, obviously beach volleyball gets a lot of that attention at the Olympics,  but the indoor team is  phenomenal.

So,  I hope those kind of sports, and we are seeing a women's professional volleyball league. There's actually going to be three. There's two right now.

Annie: I didn't even know that.

Julie: And I think in a big way, there's one that's launching in the fall called Love, that I think will be the biggest of the three.  But yeah, you're seeing, you know, all these sports making huge strides. Yeah. I mean, when you guys won your first Olympic gold, it was not televised live, correct?

Julie: Correct.  No, that's a great story. Dick Ebersol, who was the CEO of NBC and managed all the Olympics. 96 was our very first women's, it was actually the first time women's soccer was allowed in the Olympics.

So we fought for that for years, which I was surprised it was that recent.  Yeah, I mean, the national team, when we started playing in like the late 80s, had no Olympics, no World Cups, and so we fought for both, and the first time we got to the Olympics, so we probably could have played in a couple Olympics before 96, but there was no women's soccer in the Olympics, so we fought to get in in 96.

It obviously helped because the United States was hosting, And when you host, you get to choose which sports you want. Okay. So they chose soccer. You can, you can add, you know, new sports if you're a host. So they chose soccer. So that was the first time women's soccer, it crushed it. You know, we had 80, 000, I think at the, at the final but NBC didn't show any of that live because, you know, I think it was.

Diving was happening or something. Some swim event was happening. I think it was, it was like platform diving. It wasn't even like a gold medal match, you know, here we're playing in front of a packed stadium. 80, 000 people. It's a great game. We win in front of this crazy crowd. We have never played in front of before.

So at the next Olympics, and we, we were like, why didn't they show that? That is so crazy. They'd cut away like. You know, one minute look ins.  Bob Costas was new, but Dick Ebersole at the next Olympics in, it was in 2000 in Australia. First thing he did is he pulled me and Mia Hamm and Brandi Chastain into his office.

We were walking through the NBC headquarters at the Olympics, the next Olympics. And he said, I want to apologize to you three  because I messed up at the last Olympics. I didn't show, I didn't show hardly any of your game and we will not get that wrong this year.

Annie: Wow! 

Julie: I've always loved Dick because of that.  I'm like, thank you for acknowledging that.

Annie: I mean, a lot of credit to you guys, because I think a lot of the story of you and your team through all those years was kind of just being underestimated and proving everyone wrong, right?

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the history of women, really, right?  Not just in sports, that's everywhere.

Annie: Which brings me to my next topic. Where do you think we are on pay equity and that fight in sports. It's, you know, something that we are still fighting for in the financial services. It can be incredibly discouraging and disheartening to see the statistics in our industry. I think it's, you guys were fighting that fight over 25 years ago.

And now we still see, you know, athletes, female athletes who are, who are advocating for it. And, and I mean, what do you think? Are we making progress? What, what needs to happen? 

Julie: We are making progress. I mean, I think I think there's a lot of layers to it. I'm so thrilled, though, that that are women's soccer team was able.

We started You know, as you, as you mentioned, Annie, 25 years ago, fighting not for equal pay, but equitable pay,  little things we noticed right away, like why do they have seven trainers and seven massage therapists and staying at five star hotels and we're at like the holiday in with no trainers, no massage therapist,  nothing, no staffing, no marketing people.

You know, like, can we at least market us? Can we spend some money on any of these little things? Oh my god, I saw footage of you guys, like, moving one of the goals yourself out onto the field. I mean, so, I mean, right away we were like, this doesn't feel right. I mean, this is before we even knew what, you know, equity, equity was all about.

And so,  started that thanks to Billie Jean King, you know, really I got to know her early in my career and her saying to me, what the hell are you doing? You as players stand up and say something. And so,  you know, to get it over the line with women's soccer was huge. Cause this next generation, we kind of passed that baton onto them and then they sprinted with the equal pay.

And what's interesting is obviously, you know, the big argument against it is, well, you don't make as much money. You don't bring in as much revenue. And we would say, yeah, but there's been systemic discrimination against this for so many years. How are we supposed to, if you're not marketing, if you're not staffing, if you're not actually building out what this model could be, then how do you ever know if we could or not?

Right. And so you have, you know, so many sports who fight that battle against people who say, no, no, no, no, no. And My hope is that you create a space where women can walk into a job, not just in sports, but I think the real power of what happened with our Women's National Team is that You have so many people from different silos and different industries who go, you know, you guys doing that made me go up to my boss and say, look, you know, and we know there's so many stories.

It's in data that supports that women never negotiate when they go into an office. They are always negotiating. I mean, just that in itself, like negotiate, be transparent about what you're making so that you can help the next woman. That's what we do. And men are always really great about that, too, when you ask.

They can be allies, as well. So, I think that's the thing I hope. Yeah. Becomes an institution that more people and more women, in particular, go in and fight for what they deserve.

Annie: No, I think that's really well said about, you know, recognizing your own worth rather than sort of talking yourself out of it in your own head about why you might not be worth the same.

Julie: Well, and there's, I mean, how many stories have we heard about this, right? You can go down the list of women who have, you know, Sheryl Sandberg, go down the list of people who've talked about this. Billie Jean talks about this all the time. I mean, Sheryl Sandberg once told me that. You know, she has a line outside her door at Facebook of men wanting the next job, and she has to go ask and beg women to apply.

And it's the thing I love most about women. It's the thing that sets us back the most, right? Is we want to check every box. No, we have a lot of excuses in terms of I'm not ready. I don't have enough time. I need to study more. I need to prepare more. I want more time with my family, which I say all the time.

And I get that. And it's real. But you can still make it work. Like raise your hand and we'll figure it out and you don't need to have to check every box. And so I think if we can be reminded of that messaging and the next time something comes up and.  you know, you question whether you're ready. No, raise your hand because the guy's not waiting.

He's not, he's raising his hand guaranteed. He's knocking on the door.

Annie: Yeah. No, I think it's, it's, it's again, it's connected in my head also to this idea of having your career and having children at the same time too. And I know there were women on your national team who had Children while they were on the national team.

And that was You know, back at the beginning in the early days and then you still see someone like Alison Felix having to fight for that. Yeah. You know, having to prove that she's not less than yeah. And it feels like another issue where we've like flatlined a bit or that, you know, we, we still need to make progress.

And again, I think it a little bit comes from women being able to, to fight for that as well.

Julie: Yeah. You know, I had a chance when I was making that transition out of college.  I, one, I was going to go to med school and I was like, hell no, I don't want to do that. And then I was like, you know, what do I want to do?

And I didn't think broadcasting was a viable future for me. And so I got pitched to do private equity and get in the investment business. And then I thought like, I don't know if I can manage, like, I want to have kids. I don't know if I can manage both. So I kind of, you know, said, nah, I don't, I don't think that's for me.

So to your point, like when, when players on the national team, which used to have to make the decision of, oh, I'm going to stop playing so I can have kids when all of a sudden Joy Fawcett, who's a legendary player on our team said, screw that I'm going to have kids and come back and play and crush it, which she did.

She had three kids, three daughters played through all of them came back stronger every time. I was like, I can't wait to see you at like eight kids  scoring every goal, playing every position. You know, running us in circles. And all of a sudden you see it's possible, right? So the power of women acting in a, in a role model way to, to just show like, Oh no, I can do all of that.

It's hard. I'm not saying it's not hard. It's really hard, but it's doable. And so when you see it, all of a sudden your perspective changes and I hope. You know, that's another thing we can show women is like, hell, yeah, you can do all of that and yeah,  and do private equity or do investments.

Annie: Yeah, and I think it's interesting.  I think that the the men in our industry and I see this I see men advocating for for women in professional sports, too But I think it's it's really  I don't know It's becoming a little bit of a different approach for men as well of wanting to have some more accommodation in their work life balance for their families and I think that you know that ends up becoming a really good ally in that fight for seeing things differently.

Julie: Yeah.  Absolutely. And it's important. It should be like that. Right? Yeah. Shared responsibility in that role would be super helpful too to the wife.

Annie: Yeah. Yes. Indeed. To the partner. Exactly. 

Julie: Yes. You can come change diapers. Let's go. Get some time off.

Annie: Yeah. You can do this part too. Another thing I want to get your perspective on do you think that female athletes are still held to a tougher standard in terms of their public persona and particularly on that side of being like competitive, it's almost portrayed as like that villain role.

You know, you, you saw maybe with like Angel Reese or I think it's not as tolerated when Serena Williams gets upset at the or something like that. Do you see that? 

Julie: Yeah, for sure. There is definitely a double standard. I mean, it just happened recently. There was this interesting we had a podcast with Elle Duncan and Andrea Carter, the two who covered all of that Final Four and March Madness on the women's side for ESPN, who are amazing humans.

And we were talking about, you know, that the media and people on social media had really given a hard time to the Brianna Stewart's and the Diana Charassie's and the Sue Bird's who had said Yeah, good luck to to Caitlin Clark. It's gonna be hard. It's gonna be hard when you get to the WNBA You're with the big girls now, right?

It's gonna be more physical and People came at those three veterans and said you're bitter, right? You know, how dare you whether was Asia Wilson as well I think I'd said something like how dare you say that about Caitlin and it's like well, no They're just speaking the truth. It's not like a diss to Caitlin.

It's like, it's gotta be hard. She knows that. And so I do think that there's a, there's a lot of little things in with, with female athletes that to, to this day, you know, it's like, The feeling you get is like, just shut up and be grateful, is what they want to say. Right, right. Stop talking and be grateful.

And I think it's beautiful that, and that's the power of social media, is that you can show like, No, I can have a personality. I can do both. I can be strong. I can be competitive. And it, and it doesn't mean that I don't love what, Katelyn Clark has done. Right? It just means I'm gonna, I'm gonna whoop her when, when she comes out here and plays.

I'm gonna play my best against her. So I do think it's still a bit of a double standard. It's gotten much better for sure. But yeah, you, you come across that a lot.

Annie: I mean, Brandi Chastain ripping her shirt off and, and the controversy that came around that. And I just remember her talking about it or reflecting on it and saying like, you know, I just did it.

Like I didn't really think anything of it. It just seemed like that, that thing to celebrate in that moment. And I think that that's  that raw emotion of sports and you see it in a rivalry or when you're yelling at the ref or anything else that might happen. And it's kind of what makes sports great. It should be something that we celebrate in, in the female athletes too.

Julie: Yeah. And instead of saying, how dare you raise your voice? How dare you, you know, get angry? How dare you get competitive? We should celebrate it for sure. Yeah, because we're certainly not questioning it when the men do it. And I think that's the thing I always talk about. I talk about it with my son who's 15.

Right. And my daughter, who's 17, who I'm seeing it play out and the way they interact is like. Are we saying that about men when they do that? Right. Right? And I'm not saying that women have to be men and act in that manner, but like, let's not also judge them differently. Let's celebrate that they're competitive and they're athletic as well.

So it's, it's always a great reminder. I'll give you one example, too, that happened in Spain with the women's the women's soccer team in Spain, who just won the World Cup, by the way. About three months prior to the World Cup, they wrote a letter to their Spanish Federation saying, you know, and it was, it was very respectful.

It's like, we're done with this. We're not, we've tried to change the culture here. We've tried to change the coach. We can't do it. We're not, we don't want to play anymore. This is before that. And the Spanish Federation said, and they were so mad that these women had written this letter said, how dare you write this letter?

Right. You are all cut from the national team and you shouldn't. You shouldn't have spoken up like that. That's not your decision to make. And I'm thinking, would they do that? If the men had proposed a letter instead, like in a really respectful way, Hey, we've tried everything and we can't get it done. And so we're choosing, we don't want to play.

And like, they would have never, ever admonished the men like that. It just felt like, how dare you speak up? So I, again, it's an example where I go, what would they have done if the men had done that? Right.  And, and that doesn't feel right to me. Obviously they then go on and win the World Cup and they get things sorted and solved, but it's always interesting that reaction.

Annie: Yeah, I see it in finance all the time. I think that, you know, women in leadership roles are held to a different standard publicly than a lot of the men. I think it's, it's a frustrating piece of it. But I, I think it's changing a bit, maybe not as quick as we'd like to see it. Let me ask you about youth sports.

So you have. A camp that you started. It has a leadership component. I know advocating for leadership skills and young girls and, and encouraging that has been really important to you. And youth sports has changed a lot since you or I was first growing up and playing a sport and some of that's been great and some of that's negative as well.  What's your perspective on that issue?

Julie: You're gonna need a lot more wine than I have.  We're gonna need wine. We're gonna need days. You're talking useful. I know, and you have kids too, so you're like, you know it from every angle. I have a 15 year old boy and a 17 year old girl, and it,  I've been helping on this reform.

It's too long, but it's, it's a lot. It's messy. It's complicated. It's way too expensive. I met my son plays basketball, my in football, my daughter plays soccer. And it's, it's.  What happens, it's so sad, it's like kids are specializing too early. They're vying for championships too early. They have like nine year olds playing for championships.

I'm like, what are we doing? And why are we traveling out of state at like 12 years old anyways?  We're like a league game. Like, what are we doing? So I think there's so many reforms that need to be in place about just developing kids, making it fun, creating better coaches. We don't have a pipeline for coaches, right?

Like. There, I just, just Every time you walk into a tournament, like, or you're on a field, like, just watch the coaches and the parents, like, it's so intense, it's screaming, it's serious, it's like, where is the joy in women's sports? I agree. Right? The kids come, and they, they start warming up, and they're, they're having fun, and they're chatting, and they're, there's so much joy, and then the game starts, and everyone gets so tight.

It's like, good God. God, of course they're not going to enjoy it. Because look at y'all, like the adults need to be the first people. From coaches to parents to, like, self check. Like, what are we doing? Yeah. So I'm,  I honestly think that this, it needs a huge,  a huge shift and change and just like how we approach it, the joy we put into it, the coaching certification that's required.

But yeah, I, I think sports, obviously we want more kids playing. And, and what happens is if you're not on that top team at age nine, Then it's like, well, guess I'm not going to play that sport and they quit. And it's like, wait, no, we should create, you know, varying degrees so that, and make it so that it's acceptable to keep playing at a recreational level.

And then you just create habits of like movement and sweating and community and all those things we know that are important. And right. to our mental health, to our wellness. So,  oh, Annie, don't get me going. So I, I actually I just love everything about sports and love playing sports as a kid. And I've been so sad to see the intense intensity that now exists at such a young age.

Annie: And for me, one of the things that I've struggled with is like, my kids are six and nine years old, and there's a lot of sports that they're trying out for, like they're getting cut from, which just didn't exist when I was growing up. I mean, that's absurd to me. And that's. I don't know that kids of those ages have the coping skills versus being taught that and you don't have to be awesome at everything yet, you have to be part of the team and work harder and get better and get each other better.  That just seems to be missing from so much of it.

Julie: They're getting cut at six and nine years old from teams?  There's cuts?

Annie: I know. I know. I don't know. Oh, I know.

Julie: But it's funny, like. I don't get banned. Like, I don't get banned. A six year old could be great at 12 in that school.  Right? Like, how do you know what a six year old is going to become?

Like, that's the thing that's so wrong with how we're developing kids. It's like, younger and younger, they want, you know, things that like, we should just be creating a space to let them grow and develop and laugh and play. And be creative and have fun and all those things. Then maybe at 13, 14, right, then you start getting into those.

You start obviously creating more competitive balance around that. But again, like the idea that we're cutting kids at six and nine.  You don't know what they're gonna become.
Annie: Right, and I, I, when I was getting ready to talk to you today and, you know, going back over the history of the Women's National Team and  there was so much that I was reminded of with you and your team in terms of like, you started together so young and you were all, that core group was together for so long and in so many ways, you know, grew up together and went through so many things, personal, you know, And professional on the soccer field and off.

That is so much what being on a team is. 

Julie: Totally.

Annie: What makes it wonderful, right? We talk about that all the time.

Julie: Yeah. And we, I mean, that's the gift. You have to have that longevity of like, okay, maybe Mia's having a bad game. I don't know that Mia Hamm ever had a bad game, but maybe she is. And that's okay.

She did. Like, she doesn't need to, to worry because you've got her back, right?  Right. And it's not about fearing that you're going to get dropped down to the lower team. It's about let's pick each other back up and go get them.

Julie: Yeah, for sure. It is the gift of sport. I say that all the time, like, you know, to this day. 

All of those national team teammates in that 99 group, for example, we're on a text thread every day, practically. Yeah. And like, we're talking to each other. We're, we're ribbing each other. We're roasting because she's so easy to make fun of, you know, like, like it's every day and nothing changes. It's like, those are, I always say, you're like, I'm, you're stuck with me for life.

Right. Those are friends you have for the rest of your life. I tell my kids that like, these are friends you're going to have. For the rest of your life and that is the power of that  teammate, that community, that I think that we can do a much better job of reinforcing and the joy of it, and that you don't need to be the star, you don't need to play X number of minutes, and as much as we can as parents, as coaches, right, educators, reinforce that.

And remind ourselves, cause as adults, you get, you get sucked into it. Oh, totally. You get sucked in and it's not, it's not out of, you know,  the intentions are always good. It's just, all of a sudden you're like, holy shit, I'm screaming on the side. Why am I doing that?

Annie: Totally. Or you're panicking like, Oh, we didn't try out for that club team.  Like, Oh yeah. You know, what's going to happen.

Julie: I mean, I, I tell the story all the time because it's a perfect example. My 17 year old was all stressed because.  She wanted to go to homecoming, right? And they had a game. Okay, and I said,  well then go to homecoming And she's like I can't go to homecoming. What are they gonna say?

What's the coach gonna say? He's gonna cut me I'm not gonna be able to play. I'm like no you just have she's like I'm gonna I'm gonna tell him that we have a family commitment and I came I'm like, no, no No, you're not lying to the coach. You're gonna say to the coach you not me. You're gonna call him up and say hey coach I'm conflicted here  I really want to go to homecoming.

What do you think? I'm like, first of all, he's the most reasonable coach you've ever had. Right. Prior would have been like, how dare you? So she has a little bit of that PTSD, right? Right. From a prior coach. I said, no, he's going to get it. He's going to get it. So just say, what do you want? What do you want me?

What do you want me to do? I'm conflicted. I really want to go. Yeah. I said, he will let you go. So she did that as soon as she said, coach, I'm conflicted.  And homecoming, he's like, go to homecoming, Izzy. And I was like, yeah, but like, it's one game. It's like,  it's one game. So perspective from parents, from coaches, like help our kids have that perspective because it's hard for them to see that.

And remember what makes sports great. Right. It's not always about being on the top team or winning that. It's the pizza afterwards. Honestly, that's all I remember. I pounded pizzas.  So what is it like having a daughter play soccer?  I mean, she's playing with yours.  It's fun. I mean, it's, it's a little, you know, it's a lot in terms of just, you know,  she doesn't have my last name, which is good.  I'm Foudy. She's Sawyer's. So that's good. I think that helps.

Annie: That must help.

Julie: And she's going to go, she's a junior. She just committed at University of Washington, which is great. Yeah. Which is awesome. And she. And she, she loves it. And so there was a point actually where she played volleyball and soccer.

And I've always said to her, like, If you don't want to play soccer, don't play soccer. Right. Or don't, you don't have to go play division one. Right. Go play two, three, go play club soccer or don't play it, play it all. Play something, just be a part of a community and a team, but like, doesn't have to be soccer.

So she was playing volleyball and soccer at the same time. And it just didn't, it wasn't sustainable. Once she got to high school, it was like four teams between the high school teams and the club teams. She was stressing out. And I said, we'll give something up. Like, what do you want to do? Like, and I was thinking, Oh God, please don't let it be soccer.

I never told her that. But then she chose soccer. She's like, Oh, I'm giving up volleyball.  Okay, let's go. Oh, you're a good mom.  No, I love watching volleyball too. So I would have been equally happy with that. That's such a great sport. But yeah, she eats, you know, and it goes back to like kids specializing.

We tried to really have them play multiple sports for a long time.  And my son still does. And I think that's healthy as well. It's another thing.  Again, I hope coaches and parents encourage with their kids.

Annie: I hope so too. So let me ask you this.  What do you think in terms of who's out there that's kind of that next generation of leadership on all of these issues of, you know, women's sports?

And by the way, I don't see like a Billie Jean King slowing down anytime soon. She's a force. But who do you see out on the horizon as kind of that next gen? 

Julie: Wow. That's such a great question. I was just having that conversation with the president of the women's sports foundation, which is the organization that Billie Jean King founded in 1974, which is amazing because, you know, Billie Jean is basically the thread that runs through all of women's sports history.

And she wins a tournament in 1974, 5, 000 is before Billy was making any money. And the first thing she does is like, let's start a women's sports foundation to create equal access and opportunity for women. I have no money, but I'm going to go do that. Cause that's who she is. So I, I don't know. That's a great question.

I think like I look at players, like, and I don't know Coco gaff, but I think, yeah, you know, like The perspective and when I hear her talk and I see her play I also think, you know, it can't just be white women and needs to be diverse. Right. It needs to be inclusive. I think that's the beauty of women's sports.

I hear, you know, and I see a Megan Rapinoe and all she's done, right? And fearless. She's been so fearless about being outspoken. She's great, fearless and, and fights for people who maybe don't have the, the microphone or platform to do that. Mm-Hmm. . And I love that about her. I mean, she's such a good human.

And, you know, and  it's, this country is so polarized in so many different ways that you see how people react to her sometimes, and.  I'm like, that's not fair. She's really like what she's doing is just like she's kind and, and, and and fighting for people's rights. And so I do think what I love most about the younger generation,  Annie, is they're, they're willing to like fight for stuff.

They're feisty.  Right? Like, I remember in our day, we would be like, I don't know if we should, maybe we shouldn't,  you know, maybe we should back off a little bit. They're like, Oh, hell no. We're, we're going to speak up. We're going to speak out. We're going to fight for what we believe in. And I think that's an important attribute that you need in that next gen.

And I so I, I do think we're in good hands with that. I would just love to see it be. you know, inclusive and broader in terms of age and scope and ethnicity and all those things.

Annie: Yeah, no, I totally agree. I won't take up too much of your time, but I just wanted to end with getting a quick opinion on the U.S. women's soccer team coming up in the Olympics this summer and who we should be watching and what you think of the chances.  Yeah, I, you know, they, they were, were not very good as we all know, the U. S. team at the World Cup in 2023, if anyone was watching that, they went out in the round of 16, which has never happened to a U.S. women's national team before, it's the earliest they've ever exited a world championship, and it's, it's interesting because what they did is they got a new coach in, and usually between Obviously, because World Cup and Olympics run back to back in years, you keep the coach, you keep everything the same because it's so tight a turn.

So tight. But  they brought in a new coach who is, hasn't been with the team because she's been coaching at Chelsea, the women's football team in England. And so she had to finish out that contract, which ends next week. So she really only gets like a month and a half with the team. Obviously she's been watching and advising all of that.

Cause she's been actually named the coach for the last six months, but it'll be interesting. And they, and what she did, which makes perfect sense is she came in and cleaned out a lot of the older veterans and brought in younger talent and. The younger players are doing really well, like a Jaden Shaw, for example.

Mm-Hmm. . She's only 18, maybe she's now 19. She plays professionally in San Diego. Never went on to college. Went straight into playing pro outta high school, a really good player. So you're gonna have a lot of younger studs. Trinity Rodman is a younger player on the team. 21, same thing. Played one year in college, then went professional.

You still have some of your veterans like an Alex Morgan, a Crystal Dunn, but you're seeing a younger crop of players and they're good. So it's, it's kind of like, I don't know what we're going to get. I mean, Olympics are really hard. There's only 12 teams. Yeah. There's groups of four. And when you're playing the top 12 in the world, like getting, even getting out of your group is a hard thing to do.

So, but I think Emma Hayes is the new women's coach. I think she's going to come in and she.  She's feisty. I like that and and they need that so I think she's gonna she's gonna get them with some swagger back That's awesome.

Annie: Well, thank you. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on all of this stuff I can't thank you enough for being here absolutely. 

Just such a great moment for me to get to meet you. I've been a fan for a very long time and 1999 World Cup was a big moment for me as an athlete and watching that. So just thank you for all you've done. Yeah. And keep  doing it.

Julie: You should go into media, forget that finance business.

Annie: I know, right?  I could get my own talk show.  Well, thank you so much. It was great to meet you. I really appreciate it.

Julie: You too. Please tell Shannon I said hi. I will do. And Sarah. Tell her to say, tell Sarah hello as well. Okay, great. We'll do. Okay. Okay. Bye.