Shimmy Isaacs of Netflix South Africa's Unseen (Rerun)

Originally released May 14, 2023

In this episode, host Tara Jabbari sits down with actor Shimmy Isaacs on location in Cape Town, South Africa to talk about her Netflix hit crime thriller, Unseen.  They discuss the show, Shimmy's acting journey in drama and comedy, her writing process, her time in the USA, and how the arts is a universal language.

You can follow Shimmy for the latest on her work on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shimmyisaacs/ 

or on Twitter: https://twitter.com/shimmyisaacs/

Watch Unseen on Netflix here.

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Transcript

welcome to Media Monuments. I'm your co-host, Tara Jabari.  currently I'm in Cape Town, South Africa, and I am very lucky to be speaking with actress, writer, producer, and comedian Shimmy Isaacs. Thank you for coming on. Thank you, Tara. And welcome to the City of Love and Light.

Is that what it's called? It is. I didn't, yeah, I just thought it was the With the Giant Beast that's known as Table Mountain. Oh yeah. Well, but you know what, now you're talking to like a. Like a local person. Oh yeah. We keep the mountain for the tourist attract, but if you wanna get into love, love and light.

Love and light, honey. Thank you. Yes. Are you born and raised in Cape Town? No, so I'm a, a small town girl, which,  I think in the states could also be,  associated with being from like, the countryside. Oh, okay. Uh, part of, the Western capes. So I'm from a little town, which is actually just an hour and a half outside of Cape Town called Vista.

However it is, um, it, it's alongside the Winelands.  so culturally we are worlds apart from the city, like in Cape Town. Yeah. So that's where I'm originally from. Yeah. Yeah. And South Africa is quite big and one of the things, we'll get into it, but I saw a lot of similarities with the United States.

Mm-hmm. It's diversity. Mm-hmm. Like US doesn't have an actual official language. Well, South Africa has 11 official languages. Yes, yes. Um, our history unfortunately is very similar against racial biases and Yes. Racism and, and all that stuff. Um, so I was really excited. I was traveling around Africa, I was in Senegal, in Kenya, and now I'm here and it's exciting that I finally got to speak with a filmmaker,  and a person who works in media.

Yeah. And you're not just from a comedy background, but I've seen your dramatic work  So your show that you're on Unseen Yeah. Is currently on the top 10 in South Africa. It is also available in the United States. Yes. On Netflix. Yes. Uh, I watched the first episode and a half and I'm like, this is heavy.

This is like, I was always on edge.  So can you share a little bit of how you got started into the entertainment industry?

Mm-hmm. And what the languages and the, the ways that telling stories in comedy, in drama. And do you speak any of the other languages in Suffolk, Africa? So my father speaks seven and he only gave us two Very selfish of him. So I only speak English and Africans. Oh. I am a fluent bilingual performer. Uh, and.

Yeah. Okay. Uh, and I just wanna add that, uh, we were, we are number two in South Africa unseen, and we are number four globally. Nice unseen. So, um, yeah, I, I received my flowers two days ago from Netflix, um, celebrating. Oh, nice. Look at Netflix. Yeah. Yeah. They treat us well.  I have to also say it is one of the first crime thrillers.

Mm-hmm. Um, you know, uh, done by Gambit, uh mm-hmm. Productions. Um, and, and it was an absolute, uh, dream working with, with Gambit, you know, it is black owned. Mm-hmm. Um, and it is also, um, the founders are actually. My former students. Oh, really? Yes. So,  when I was wrapping up my degree  after, film school,  I started teaching within my final year of my honors degree.

And then that followed with another year and a half after I came back from New York.  and I absolutely loved teaching, but I was very young at the time and so And what are you, what were you teaching?  I was the head of acting. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's what I specialized in, which was screenwriting and acting.

Mm-hmm. Um, those were my majors. And so it's, it's like coming full circle to work with a company that, you know, I had the privilege of. Of being there at the beginning of their film career. Yeah, yeah. Almost like full circle of things. Full circle, yeah. So, um, it's not just the story. It, it was everything about unseen that I think, um, was so refreshing for South Africans in particular, you know, cuz there's always some budget constraints whenever we are trying to create in a country like South Africa, you know, from the writing process, you know, um, you, you have to consider budget.

So that really limits,  the creativity a lot of the times. And,  I think they took a big gamble in, you know, cost. Were cut here and there in order for the quality, the aesthetic value of the story to really sort of have a international appeal, which it has had. And so we are extremely proud of that.

Can you share with listeners what it's about? So unseen, it's the story, um, of our. Lead actress known as Zinzi in the world,  that is on her way to meet her husband who's,  being let out of prison and he doesn't appear. And so she basically goes in search looking for her husband, and through the search she kind of gets pulled into the sort of organized crime underbelly of, of the world.

Mm-hmm. Um, of crime, you know, because her husband had, uh, actually gone to prison for someone else. I was gonna say, cuz he didn't do it. Yeah. I could tell. Yeah. And at the end of the first episode, they're like, if it was, if your husband didn't do what he did, your son would still be alive. And I'm like, what?

Yes. Yes. What? Yeah. And. Yeah. And then obviously my, my character alongside the lead, I'm her landlady. Um, and I think one of the things I really even just enjoyed about this character, cause it's so far removed from who I am, but it's something I know might do really well. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I play older characters really well.

Mm-hmm. And I embody that world. And then of course I have a very good understanding of the environment and that very specific Cape Town brown culture. Mm-hmm. You know, um, so tapping into a character's voice, uh, was essential. Um, so that we could stay true to the people that live in that environment and that community.

And um, and I think that is also what really kind of, um, blew people away about the abilities that I have as a dramatic actress. Yeah. Because that's really what I am, I put before I'm a comedian. I'm an actress. Yeah. Yeah. Um, And, and this is not necessarily the, the first television,  series or acting that I've done,  being in the business.

I'm also on a local telenovela in Cape Town,  of South Africa called sfl, which Isans. Mm-hmm. So, um, I have a huge sort of following within that com, those communities, you know, it's the first all, uh, brown, uh, people of color, telenovela slash soapy, so to speak, written by a brown man.  and I really wanted to be a part of that,  movement as well.

 when we got to South Africa mm-hmm. We, we do a little cultural, um, class. We also take a language class, so they taught us a. OSA osa. Yep. And I can't do it. That's okay. Um, they, they did us a whole sentence, which translated Oh. Uh, they, they taught us a sentence that translated into the skunk, went up the hill, because I've had a lot of the Oh, yeah.

You know, and we're like, what? And you're like, relax your tongue. And we're like, well, we are. Anyway. So, but when they did, because of the diversity mm-hmm. Um, similar to the United States, they were explaining to us what is colored, what is mm-hmm. Black, what is other, what is white? What is this? Um, you're saying brown.

And usually in the United States, we usually say black American or African American and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But we haven't really used brown. Brown, I think could mean a different thing. Can you explain what that means? Yeah. I mean, you see, the thing that separates us in this country is language. Mm-hmm. Um, not so much race.

We, you know, we are not as, uh, a lack of a better word, obsessed with race. So to speak. Mm-hmm. But primarily, you know, your language determines your race, so to speak, in, in South Africa. Okay. Uh, cuz you can have a black looking CRO man. Mm-hmm. But who would be, uh, referred, if he speaks Afrika, he would be then called a colored.

Right. Which is the term that is, is still used in South Africa. So myself, I would be, I'm a colored person mm-hmm. Uh, within the landscape of South Africa. And due to the languages that I speak, that also sort of determines where I fall, uh, in terms of class and, uh, in terms of social construct. Right. So if you're an African speaking, um, colored person, um, and this is just also part of the history, you know, these aren't my sort of personal beliefs mm-hmm.

But, um, pre predominantly, you know, closer speaking people, Uh, due to the a party that we have had, and to some degree still experience, you know, we were seen as better. Mm. Better than the, the, the Zulu speaking people. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Because remember, you also have very light skin. Mm-hmm. Uh, known as yellow bone people within that community.

But based simply, solely on the language that I speak, I would be seen as the white mans. Ah, you know? So what would your dad be considered? So my dad is actually  so I'm mixed in terms of tribe. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I'm tribally mixed. So my father is from the Northern Cape. Right. So he is a pure, bright  known, uh, which is a tribe that stems from the Kois or the Sand tribe.

Right. And he moved down into the Western Cape when he was a teenager, raised by his aunt. Um, met my mother whose Malay. Yeah. Yeah. So my mom is from a middle latest and then you, they mixed and then you get me. Yeah. Right. And I'm the brown one. And then my middle sister is very white. She looks like my dad's people.

Okay. And then my youngest sister is dark-skinned. Mm-hmm. So people always confuse her, uh, you know, with being closer or, or Zulu or anything like that. Mm-hmm. Just, she's extremely dark skinned and she looks like my mother's father who has the West African sort of ma and Okay. Yeah. I actually recently just got my results back cuz I took the ancestral dna.

Oh yes. Yeah. I'm, I'm, you know, we also busy writing a, uh, a horror feature film. And so I'm delving into the supernatural of the Kois and, and sort of the, the Dutch, uh, community, you know, delving into that. And I decided to get my, uh, DNA done mm-hmm. So that I could get some proper research. And I was blown away when I saw the amount of West African blood in me, cuz I had no idea.

Yeah. Yeah. And the, that's exciting for the, the horror Yes. Genre. Yeah. Because we watched in Senegal, there's a film, oh, now I forgot what it's called. But the whole thing was, uh, a Muslim family and the girl is in love with another boy and, but she has to marry this man. Yeah. The family shows and then it's like a spell because of the tribal backgrounds that they have.

Yeah. Yeah. So what is, can you share a little bit more detail? Uh, yeah, I mean, um, it's, it's, it's not really about, uh, intimate relationships as such. Mm-hmm. Um, the question that I kind of ask is the writer and the artist is we've, in recent years, been going through quite a lot of, reclaiming land issues mm-hmm.

In the country. And my dad,  who's still alive, he, a couple of years ago, got some land back up in the Northern Cape. Mm-hmm. Right? It's land that was where people were, it was either forcefully taken from people or uh, like our colonizers just did it illegally, so to speak. So my dad had then gone this piece of land where he's now farming on and so forth and so forth, you know,  and the question that I kind of explore as the creator  comes down to whose land is this, who is here first?

 and then we kind of go from there cuz our lead character's, actual father in the narrative passes away and she's pulled out of a city where she has to go and attend his, um, his funeral. And there's a land that he's left behind for her. But this land for some reason doesn't bear any fruit.

And there is, it's been cursed. I know, I know. I, I love, yeah. And then, and then a, uh, random housekeeper shows up very random, white woman Uhhuh. Um, but is she of those times or is she an old spirit? We don't know. No. Oh, it's exciting. Keep us posted on that one. I'm definitely going to, I love, I'm probably gonna call you and be like, Hey, I need some advice.

Because we also, again, very similarly to United States. Mm-hmm. You know, there is now this idea of giving back to the ownership of the Native Americans. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and, and the other thing I must add to the exploration of, of, of the plots is also you, you know, uh, the character's sort of interim conflict.

Cuz you know, a, a lot of it is sort of loosely based on my own experience. You know, growing up in a very sort of cosmopolitan way. Mm-hmm. And I know very little about my dad's background, and so that kind of sparked this idea mm-hmm. Where I'm trying to find out more about who my own father is and where his lineage and, and things like that.

And, um, and so we will also be introduced to a character that has to come to terms with her bloodline. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and that for me is always the fascinating and interesting thing is, is to see how characters sort of overcome their own sort of personal ignorance. Two things. Yeah. So I was watching one of your interviews and you were saying, as a writer you always think of the characters always first.

Always. And sometimes when you take a class or you know, you hear from others and they say, well, what is the plot? What is the main, uh, thing that's kind of happened? Then you think of the backgrounds of the characters, but for you it's slightly different. Well, for me it is because I think the acting aspect, um, you know, training that I have and then also, you know, I, uh, specialized in human behavior and I specialized in psychology, which was part of the subjects that I took up it after.

And um, so everything for me starts with a feeling. Mm-hmm. Right. What I'm going through or something I've experienced or, um, watching other people. And I would kind of go, I wonder what her life is about, what has brought her to this point. Right. And that is something I enjoy cuz now my character really leads me and there's very, I don't wanna say little, but it almost makes.

Somewhat easier for me to discover the plot through how the character thinks about themselves and how the character feels about the world that they live in. You know, because you can have a great plot and you can have great scenes and you can have really great ideas, but if you don't understand why the character moves the way they move mm-hmm.

Or speak the way they speak or vote the way they vote, or have the conservative views they have, then for me that just creates more work. Cuz now I've gotta go back and go, well would she do this? Cuz now I have her doing this and that. And so I really like to start with a solid understanding, a solid emotional understanding mm-hmm.

Of who this person is and the journey they, um, are going to take us on. I also wanted to discuss, um, what I had known before coming to South Africa is it is the country that has the most reported, um, Cases of, of rape and violence against women and children. Yeah. That's reported. It's probably higher all over the world.

Yeah. But, um, and something that I was watching in unseen, even in the first episode. Yeah. Um, with the, the la the male landlord. Mm-hmm. Not even man that he is the one who plays my husband. Yeah. Enrique. Yeah. I was like, what the hell? Yeah. Um, but you know, just like, or like, she walks in a bar and, and they're like, what are you doing here?

And it's like, everyone is staring at this woman and she has property. Mm-hmm. Um, your, your husband is no longer there, and so we'll take care of you. Mm-hmm. Kind of thing.  I think women all over the world can understand that. I even remember when she's getting to her door and she then gets to her door, then gets the keys.

I'm like, no, no, sweetie, you're supposed to get the keys before. Yeah. Like you're trained like that and stuff. And then, uh, spoiler alert, thankfully you called for him. And then he is like, fine, you cock tease. And I were like, what? She was just walking, you know? Yeah. All that stuff. Um, and as you're speaking, you're talking about a lot of, you're using the she pronoun.

have you seen how stories in South Africa or in general, and do you think female, because you are female, um, how does that story come, like does it always have to be mentioned that the endangerment of, of women, um, being attacked and stuff like that? Well, I think with a particular scene like that, the writers really needed to stay true and honest.

Um, also to the male character's intentions, you know, and what his goals were and, and, uh, and the outcome that he wanted. So those are very, very real moments and encounter. That, especially, um, our lead character who plays a domestic and she has several domestic jobs, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.  because characters in that world and, but also in reality are sort of just seen as, um, a door act, you know, you can do within whatever it is that they want.

And because she's in such a fragile space, it only makes it so much more poignant for her, um, for, for antagonist type of characters and people to sort of come in, you know? Cuz when, I mean, I've experienced it, you know, I'm gay, but that doesn't exclude me from experiencing things mm-hmm. That most heterosexual women experience, you know?

 if you're vulnerable, lonely, or you need in need of money, you know, any. Person that has ill intention would play on that. And I think for the purposes of the story and the scene, we had to have that there. Mm-hmm. You know, because it's also the, the stakes are really high for her. Um, and what we also, um, depicting is outside of leaving her home, inside the house, she's also dealing with stuff.

Yeah. All right. So externally we see the, the guns and the underground sort of organized crime, and then she comes home and she can't even have peace and quiet there, you know? Right. Yeah. . Yeah.  how did you get started? Uh, in it seems, I could be wrong, comedy, then drama or vice versa, and then what is the different languages or fields of portraying?

So I had no idea what standup comedy was. Um, no, I'm a fully, uh, classically trained actress, uh, theater and, um, acting for screen and, you know, and, um, I had about five majors in my first year,  which were physical theater,  stage.  and then it was also,  stunts. I specialized in stunt training and then of course I had my music, uh, that I did, and then acting for screen, so that, that's in the first year of, of film school.

In my first year was second year, they put me straight into second year. Yeah. Oh, nice.  and then as I progressed towards my honors degree, I ultimately started specializing in acting for film and screenwriting. Uh, because I, I understood very early on that I was going to have to create work for myself, which is why I wanted to write.

Um, you know, and we were a few people of color at a very prestigious film. School and we all got scholarships and, you know, based on the demographics when the school kind of, um, got to the city. once I understood what my purpose was as an entertainer, I was able to kind of, you know, have a plan and went to New York, specialized a little bit there.

Yeah. Was my girlfriend at the time who was, uh, New York. She was from New York, but she was doing her master's in creative writing here at U C T. And so, you know, I kind of made the painful decision that I needed to focus on my, um, uh, Korea. Mm-hmm. And it was just a few months I was like, come, come and I love you too much.

And I ran up and stayed there. And then I got into specializing, uh, a technique, which is, um, at the, I I think they might have changed the name. At the time it was called Black Nexus. And it's a, School set up by Susan Baton, who's one of the few, uh, black acting, um, Hollywood coaches. Mm-hmm. And I really wanted to be in an environment that was sort of community based.

Um, I didn't wanna be in another institution cause I went to NYU and I kind of visited a couple of places and it just wasn't for me. There, there was something else I, I wanted to experience and I think I wanted to learn. Um, and so got there, did that, and it became very clear to me that I wasn't needed there.

 In America. Um, I, there was nothing that I could offer them that was going to, at the time, at least made me feel like my creative voice was being heard. And I understood that I need, I had so much to offer. It was just not the place for me. I needed to come back home. And, and that, that relationship.

Very, uh, hard decision once again. But I knew I had to come home and, and create work on this side, which is what I then did. And I wrote my first clay called , which means all the way from, um, but Ali Pat, uh, it's sort of a slang term, and then funny meaning from, but spelled F u n n y, Uhhuh, right? That, that was the first thing I wrote.

And, and it had a comedy element to it, right? And still, again, no idea what standup comedy was. You know, I'm from a small time never even saw what standup comedy was. My favorite comedy actor was Martin Lawrence. Like, I watched Martin, but I just thought he was an actor. Right? Yeah. I thought he was an actor.

No idea. Until a mate of mine, when I gave up lecturing at, after I'd come back from New York, my lecturer ranting lecturer called and said, Hey, I'd love for you to come teach. I said, okay. I was too young. Mm-hmm. Right. And I was too smart. And when I say smart for my own good, you know, um, and I needed to go and, and experience the industry.

And uh, and I knew what I was giving up. I was giving up a cushy job with a cushy income, but that doesn't stop me cuz I don't come from money, you know? Um, and I am not, uh, defined by, by those things, right? And so I was super broke and I remember walking down Long Street one day and I had just come back from a casting that I walked out of.

Hmm. I was sitting at this casting and I was, I looked at the number on my chest and I was number 317. I'll never forget that. 317, never forget that number. And there's a group of like very beautiful women and guys, and they weren't actors, I could tell they were just. Beautiful people. Mm-hmm. And I remember sitting there going, this cannot be my life.

I am too gifted and I am too talented to just become a number. Mm. To just become a number in the hopes that someone would recognize something in me. So it was highly crucial for me to first recognize my own greatness. Right. Because there, I'm going from casting to casting to casting. And like most of us looking for some type of affirmation.

It's not even about getting the job, it's wanting to know that you're good enough to at least have a call back. Right. And I couldn't do that. I just, I, I couldn't do that. Um, maybe I was a bit too, what's the word? Uh, stubborn, but I just couldn't do it. Right. I would, I could never forgive myself if I didn't at least try to create work for myself and to really take charge.

Of my own destiny. That's ultimately what I had to do. And so my friend, he's passed on now, Rustam. I was walking down Long Street and he's like, Hey. And he sees me and he calls me, he's like, Hey girl, what's up? And we went to school together. I was like, Hey bro, man, I'm out. You trying to do the thing? He's like, you still do that acting stuff?

I'm like, man, I'm trying Bri, he goes, check this out. Um, I'm trying to start, um, stand up Comedy Year Cape Done. I'm like, what's that? Oh, literally what's that? He goes, man, you just stand on stage and tell jokes. I'm like, oh yeah. Cause I have a theater background. So I was like, oh, it's like a one woman show.

Yeah, yeah. And he, and he goes, yeah, yeah. It's exactly like that. Right? No idea who Chris Rock was. No idea who Dave Chappal was. This is in 2008. No idea who any of the top com because my world was purely acting in film. Right. And, um, I remember. Writing like a five minute thing. But I was, even, the way I was writing was very theatrical, right?

Mm-hmm. And he's like, no, no, no. You gotta get to the drugs quicker. Yeah. Right. And I said, oh, okay. Go, go, go. I get it. I get it. And first night, standing ovation and cash in hand. And so we, it's myself, Gino Raham, August, uh, Milo, and I've gotta say these names and Zzi. So I was the only girl, uh, you know, uh, these guys.

We started standup 2008 in Long Street at a club called Zula or Restaurant, so to speak, called Zula in Long Street at the time. And something happened that night night because people were chanting my name. Wow. And my name has always been very important to me in the business. Cause in South Africa, unfortunately, you become a character first before you become the artist.

And that has been throughout your. Of, of the film and television industry where no one would know the actor actor's actual name. Right. And people would call them by their character names that they play in a soapy or whatever. And I, I'm an artist, I didn't want that. And standup comedy gave me that springboard and I was like, man, I got cash in hand.

That's not bad money for like five minutes. Mm-hmm. And so it just kind of happened from then, then other at the time, legendary comedians who I didn't even know, you know, like could  saw me and I went straight to a supporting act. So I always am grateful that I don't know what an open mic experience is, you know, cuz I believe that my, my acting background and my understanding for the medium of theater itself, Really kind of set me apart from every other comedian that was coming up at the time, you know?

And he was like, I've never seen anything like this. You're so confident you, so this. I'm like, because I'm doing something that I am truly an expert in. Like I always say, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a mathematician. God didn't grant me those gifts, but he sure as hell granted me the, the gift of storytelling.

Mm-hmm. And I stand in that very firmly and very confidently, you know, just like a doctor would when he's checking you out. Mm-hmm. Or he's giving you medication, he know he's an expert in his field and I'm an expert in what it is that I do. No matter what medium you give me, I'll be able to deliver within that space.

And so that is how my standup career started. And then by 20, I think by 2010 I was doing huge shows at. Theaters at auditoriums and the CHS reports saw me and was like, who's this? You know? And, and I was on, I was edgy also with the things that I was talking about. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, I don't censor myself, but I also don't, I try not to offend people.

I don't think anybody ever wants to offend people. Right. I'm at least not that kind of artist. I, I really don't, when I speak, I try to be as honest as the experience would, would allow me to be. And then they named me like the topic median of Yeah. I, I was like, wow, this is, this is cool. And, uh, people started calling my name Shami Isaacs, and I was making money, you know, but I was not, not acting, I was acting throughout all of that.

Right. Yeah. So you have a theater background. Yes. The live performance, you. You've done on camera work? Yes. On a set. And you've also done standup comedy. Yeah. What are some of the differences and your favorite parts and your least favorite parts of it? Do you have a preference? I think the thing I love about standup comedy, it really gives me the opportunity to kind of, cause I'm a character actress as well, right.

It gives me the opportunity to really do that uncensored. Mm-hmm. Right? Because when you go onto a set, you are given a script. Mm-hmm. And then you, if it's a really cool director, uh, he or she would allow you to, um, you know, make it your own, which is ultimately what you want as a good director. You want, if you trust the actor enough, you go make it your own.

Right. So the great thing about standup for me is, is that I, I feel completely free. I, I feel completely free and uncensored when I'm on that stage. Right. And the only people I have to please is my audience. Like I don't have to worry about an executive. Mm. I don't have to worry about paying anyone else other than myself and the crew.

Yeah. Right. Which is a small crew, you know, it's the lighting guy, sound guy, uh, and so forth. Um, in terms of language, same thing. Um, standup free and I speak bi, you know, depending on the audience, it's always bilingual. When I'm doing big shows, I do it, uh, English ands, not just afan, I have to refr cups.

Okay. So there's a, a big difference with lingo and AFR lingo. So AFR is the language of the colonizers is the language that. Gave, made ourselves like we colored people created themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, uh, very similar to the African Americans, like, who has certain slangs, like, man, why you flex?

And bro, why you? And I remember going, what does flex mean? Like, right. So, you know, but just in this South African context. Yeah. And, um, you did share, you, you lived in New York. Mm-hmm. Before you started recording, you also went to Chicago Yes. For a little while. So have you seen any differences between performing in the States versus in South Africa?

I mean, yeah, definitely. Um, so the, the first night of my performance in Chicago was at the comedy bar. Mm-hmm. All right. And, um, and I remember going on stage and I just had five minutes as an opener and I went on stage. And what was interesting was, I think. What set me aside from that particular lineup of that evening was, you know, they were really young, like, like, you know, they were really young.

And, um, and I felt that, you know, some of it was quite, um, animated. Um, and everything I do is rooted in honesty. And, and so I was like, okay, cool man. I'm sitting there and I'm listening to the kinds of jokes, right? So, you know, it's very will feral kind of style of comedy. And I'm, uh, to some degree, I, I, I rarely, rarely talk about sex or things like, so there was a few of those type of things that, to me personally, it was like, oh, oh, she went there.

Oh, he went there. Oh, they went there, you know? Um, but I had to trust my, I, I had to trust myself, you know, no matter what I see in front of me happening or with other performers, I have to remember who I am. Um, and the biggest mistake I would make is to try and compare myself to someone else. Mm-hmm.

Because I'm not an American, I'm a South African, and I had a story to tell and I went up and I said, and I opened up and I just greeted them and closed that  and I just started clicking and they all went work. I said, oh, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Oh, we're in America, you know, and then they went up. So I kind of just, you know, broke the ice work with that.

Yeah. Was like, oh, you know, uh, you guys heard, um, south African and yes, we are wearing clothes now, you know, and so, and they, and I think that was just like very refreshing. Mm-hmm. The manager came in to watch my set and I was like, oh. And I got an email from her the next morning and I was like, oh. And the email said she thoroughly enjoyed my set so much, and I had a bit about.

The ba a baby who's actually my niece, you know, um, who I am afraid of kids, you know? Uh, and she loved that. But then she said, do you mind headlining the race stuff the weekend? So again, I think I constantly get affirmations that if I just think true to who I am mm-hmm. Um, you know, and I have the ability to communicate with people in the language that they understand, and I have the ability to still give the same, uh, punt in the joke as I would in cops.

Mm-hmm. Um, I, I had to find, that was the only hurdle I had to overcome was how do I take the exact same joke, but I have to tell it in an American context. And then you kind of make, you know, you, you, you make you change references here and there, just so that it is a little bit more familiar to the American audience.

 is there anything that we didn't really touch on that you would like to share, um, about your work or storytelling in general?

Um, whether it's South African storytelling or universal? Well, I mean, I'm a South African, so I'm going to stick to what I know, you know. Um, I must say that, uh, The film industry has shifted tremendously over the last, I should say, five years since Netflix has, um, entered the, the realm of, of South African film.

And it's a good thing. It's a very, very good thing for us, you know, cuz it is one platform that has truly allowed us as South African creators, artists, performers, in whatever shape or form to be as authentic as you can be and should be. Um, for instance, I don't participate or subscribe to a lot of soaps in South Africa.

I mean, I've never said this out loud, but I don't mind, um, you know, I've turned down quite a lot. Mm-hmm. I've turned down quite a lot of work, uh, in, in the 20 years that I've been in the business, and that is simply because I have integrity. Mm-hmm. And I have, uh, true values that I stand by as a woman of color in this business.

I don't have to change my voice. I don't have to adapt to a depiction in order for certain people to feel comfortable with us. And that's kind of the sad thing that's been in, in South Africa for a very long time, is you are, you can very quickly become a caricature within the white world of, of filmmaking very quickly.

You either play the funny character or you play the character that has to pick up after everyone else, or you play the character that is just destitute, you know, uh, within the white Africans world of filmmaking. And I have, um, been very successful at crafting out a very clear identity for myself. And, uh, I think that they have taken, uh, they've woken up to mm-hmm.

Uh, you know, cuz my know is my, no. Um, and like I say, I don't come from a lot, so it's never been, An issue of am I going to go hungry? No, I won't. Mm-hmm. Because I've been blessed with an incredible talent so that I could eat. Mm-hmm. You know, the idea that you have to give up something that, uh, that's special is just ludicrous to me.

It's really ludicrous to me cuz nothing lasts forever. This too shall pass, I promise you. And then Netflix comes along and I'm like, look,  I told you guys, we get to do our stories the way that it's meant to be done. You know, and we do have international appeal. We really do. We do not have to keep looking at America.

And then I had no offense to, to Americans. I love them. But I think this has been the, um, the challenge being a person of color in this country, just culturally is, you know, there has an immense influx of Western culture. Yeah. Uh, within South African. Um, particularly black communities, you, you know, we don't need to do that.

Mm-hmm. Simply to have international appeal or acceptance, you know, cuz we are dealing in feelings, honey. That's what we are dealing in. Just get the feelings right. You know, and, um, this is why it's one of my favorite is to interview international filmmakers. Mm-hmm. It was just an idea. They're like, Terry, you'll be in, in Rome.

Let, should we see if we can find some? I love that. And so I did and I'm like, I loved hearing his perspective. Yes. And then I, every country I go to, I was like, do you know a filmmaker? And they're like, what? Uh, sure. Maybe. And, and, and then it, because you're right, it's all about emotion and feelings and those are universal, so.

Absolutely. I believe everything starts with the writing.

Mm-hmm. If you wanna have an impact and a shift in change. Become part of the ranking process. Mm-hmm. That's really where we are going to be able to change perspective and hopefully bring back fun. Man, I, I love having fun. This is, let's just have fun  Well thank you so much. You're welcome.