Reality TV: Our Hosts Take a Candid Look

In this episode - our first with a video companion - join all three of our hosts on a journey through the dynamic world of American reality TV. We explore its origins, cultural impact, and evolving genres. From the groundbreaking series "The Real World'' to the global phenomenon of "Keeping Up with the Kardashians," we unpack how these shows reflect and shape our society. Listen in as we share personal anecdotes and discuss how reality TV has become a platform for important conversations.

We examine the mechanics of reality TV and its widespread appeal. Whether it's the satisfaction of quick resolutions or the emotional manipulation of viewers through crafty editing, there's no denying the genre's ability to captivate. Sub-genres provide drama in following celebrities’ lives, binge-worthy spectacle in navigating love connections, inspiration in creative competitions, and so much more… which sub-genre is your favorite?

To watch our conversations, subscribe to our YouTube channel at: http://www.youtube.com/@MediaAndMonuments

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We on the Women in Film & Video (WIFV) Podcast/Communications Team work hard to make this show a great resource for our listeners, and we thank you for listening!

Transcript

00:10 - Voiceover (Host)
Welcome to Media Monuments presented by Women in Film Video in Washington DC. Media Monuments features conversations with industry professionals speaking on a range of topics of interest to screen-based media makers. 

00:29 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Thanks for joining us. I'm Candice Block, joined by my fellow hosts, sandra Abrams and Tara Jabari, and this episode is an extra special one because not only is it one of our all-hosts specials, but it's our very first that has a video companion available on YouTube. So, for those listening, if you'd like to watch the conversation, check out the Media Monuments channel on YouTube. 

00:50 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
Being able to see what we really look like is a nice segue to our topic. This episode reality television, american reality TV to be more accurate, because we can only cover so much. 

01:04 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
That's right. We're going to give some facts and history along the way and chat about some of the different subcategories within the genre as we share, about which shows we personally watch and enjoy. 

01:18 - Candice Bloch (Host)
So I guess, to kick it off, we can talk about kind of how the genre came to be One of the ones, one of the shows in the US, that the show that is credited for really bringing reality TV to the United States is the Real World, which premiered in 1992 on MTV, and that was, as a lot of listeners might remember. It was the true story of seven strangers picked to live in a house, live together, work together, have their lives taped to find out what happens when people stop being polite and start getting real. The Real World. I don't know, did you guys watch that show? 

01:55 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
I watched a bit. One that I really started watching was when they went to Chicago, because they grew up in Chicago and that was the year 2001. And they were there for September 11th 2001. So that was a really big season for obvious reasons. But we grew up with it, watching it or like hearing about it, like my friend's older siblings were like you know, our parents really can't watch it because all sorts of stuff. 

02:24
But I remember watching that like one was very openly gay and then the other person wasn't, so then they kind of were expected to keep the person secret. And then another person in the house was like more religious, so then he wasn't very accepting of anyone who was gay. So that's, you know, like those kinds of conflicts were happening because they were coming from all over, I think, mostly the country, right, not necessarily the world. Yeah, I think it was pretty much a US thing, a US thing. But then they would pick, you know, they came from all over the country and then they'd stick to one place in the country. So it happened to be in Chicago. Yeah, because they live in one house together and it was interesting. 

03:03 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Yeah, it was a little bit about that area too, where they were. I do remember that as well. When it came out I was I guess it was nine when it came out, so when it was in its heyday I was right at that age where you kind of wanted to watch the slightly older people and get a peek into their world. So I watched a few seasons of it. I didn't get too obsessed. I remember when road rules came out, which is kind of like a almost a spin off of it, I guess. So road rules came from real world, I remember. And then, but yeah, anyway, the show is apparently the longest, one of the longest running, or I might be thinking of RuPaul as one of the longest running reality shows, but it's one of the first. 

03:48
Yeah, it's the first and it's the one credited with the genre, like kind of creating the genre, and it's one of the longest running reality TV shows. 

03:56 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
I remember watching and getting hooked on it. When watching the real world San Francisco I was pretty glued to the TV. You know the range of personalities, as you mentioned before, Candace and the discussion on so many topics among all those strangers. But I was very moved because real world San Francisco introduced us to Pedro who at the time people did not know he had AIDS and not long after the show concluded he unfortunately passed away from the disease. So that, I think, brought that genre and the show to the forefront and had a lot of people talking about issues that were happening, such as AIDS. 

04:37 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Yeah, and all the different tensions between people brought up a lot of these things and a lot of discussions and kind of validated the genre as not just trivial but being a way to talk about stuff. So reality television as a genre is supposed to be unscripted, with non-actors, so real people, and it kind of also with real world. It kicked off that other thing that you see most in reality TV, the sort of confessional where you're kind of talking to the people involved and getting their opinions and they kind of splice that in throughout the show. So you see that a lot of reality TV now, whether it's some of the bigger ones that have come out, like you know Survivor or Real Housewives or Keeping Up with the Kardashians, or you know Big Brother, which is kind of similar to real world in that it's just a bunch of people at house. I don't watch Big Brother, so I don't know how similar it is, but I assume it's similar. 

05:31 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
I actually know somebody who worked on that show and he always felt he was like this makes me feel like a pervert, because he was like a camera person and was one of his first jobs out of college. We went to college together and then he moved to Los Angeles and he was he was like, yeah, because you're kind of hidden, you're in the house but you're upstairs or something like that, and he had to like watch them and just make sure the equipment was working and stuff and you can't interact with them at all and you can't be seen and all sorts of stuff. And he was like it's a bizarre job, the ultimate job if you love being a voyeur. 

06:08 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
Yeah, I wanted to mention that there's the reality shows. But then there's the reality competition shows which I view as what you're mentioning. Big Brother is one of the competition shows. Survivor, another competition show. I watched a lot of Survivor in the beginning, I thought it was really interesting. And also the RuPaul Drag Race, another reality competition show the new one that's with Alan Cummings, the Traders, another reality competition show. But then there was reality show such as the Kardashians or Real Housewives, and it's not so much a competition where they're winning a prize at the end, but a competition among the castmates. 

06:52 - Candice Bloch (Host)
I guess you should say yes, that's a perfect way to get into it. One of the subcategories is the competition shows. But also just to make sure that people kind of wrap their head around it, if you're thinking about not scripted actors, whatever documentaries, sports talk shows and even game shows are not considered in the reality television category. So yeah, competition shows are huge and when we were all looking into this category and deciding what to research a little bit and talk about and we were seeing between the three hosts who watches what shows, I realized I pretty much almost exclusively watch the competition shows and I watch a lot of them, but a lot of them with more of a creative slant. So I mean I've seen all kinds, whether it's top chef back in the day making it is a new one I've seen. I watched Lego Masters. 

07:44 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
There's Great British Baking Show I love the British Baking Show yes, not like the American version, but the British Baking Show yes. 

07:52 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Yeah, the British one, that's you can't touch that, it's classic. 

07:55 - Voiceover (Host)
Love Mary. 

07:57 - Candice Bloch (Host)
But, yeah, there's all kinds of baking ones, there's Halloween ones, there's all sorts of competitions. I think they're super fun. I like watching ones about like glassblowing and forging metal and makeup art. There's really good ones there. Face Off was one of my favorite shows of all time and I'm really sad that it doesn't exist anymore. But there's just like endless, endless amounts. It's a massive genre. There's competition reality. There's reality. There's all these subcategories. You got all the ones that deal with dating, you know. So it's like love is blind or love island, or all these different things. I'm looking at some of them now. Then, like, is it cake? It was also one that just came out recently which a lot of people thought was fun. There's just so many. Have any of you watched? Did you watch the Survivor? Oh, project Runway Sorry, it's another big one. 

08:44 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
I was obsessed with Project Runway when it was Heidi Klum came out and actually used to have. We used to text during the show with another, with several friends, because we were so obsessed with it. So I loved it. But then after so many seasons and you realize it's a big, there was some someone won and I said no, they only picked that person because of X. That person should not have won. So then I stopped watching it after that. But I loved Tim Gunn on Project Runway. I was obsessed with him and I survived. 

09:16 - Candice Bloch (Host)
That's where we all got make it work Just when something's not going. 

09:19 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
Just make it work, and I used to watch Survivor at the beginning and that I just I thought was really fascinating, but then after a couple of seasons I said forget it. But speaking of Survivor, there's a woman who won Survivor twice and she is now on the new Alan Cummings the trader that just premiered the other day on Bravo Huh. 

09:43 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Yeah, there's a lot of spin-offs that people kind of make it on one reality show, and then I think there's some people that have gotten their own reality show, several people that have gotten their own reality show from being on a reality show. So it's, I guess I don't know it's a nice well of A lucrative business. Yeah, exactly, there's a lot of opportunity within it. 

10:03 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
It's sort of like, oh, like it's like, would we consider the bachelor and then how? The bachelor like the very first bachelor at. 

10:13 - Candice Bloch (Host)
So the bachelor then got the bachelorette. Now there's, like you know, up to now with Golden Bachelor, there's all different kinds of versions. There was also the like who wants to marry a millionaire? Like all these different ones that were kind of versions of it. There's one about farmers too. 

10:29 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Yeah, I think that's out now. I saw that commercials and all sorts of stuff. 

10:34 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
Farming is really hard. If you watch any of the animal shows, if you watch Dr Poe the veterinarian, you see farming is really hard. So I don't know why you wouldn't want to do that. 

10:45 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
And there's like a clip where she wears high heels and I'm like, oh, she can't last. I mean I wouldn't either. Yeah, who would wear high heels on a farm? I know, I'm like you know you have to get up really early, right Like before the sun rises. I think. 

11:00 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Right, I know I couldn't. As a self-proclaimed night owl, I can't handle it Like. This is already kind of early and we're recording not that early in our time zone, so for everyone listening, this is also a perfect example of Tara being our world traveling digital nomad. Tara, tell us where you are recording from right now. 

11:22 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
I am currently in Dubai, so it's in the UAE and it's evening time. I was like, could you guys do a little earlier your time so I don't have to get up at like two in the morning in Dubai time, because then I'd have to in all sorts of stuff. So you guys graciously said yes, but I got this from one of my guides, so love that headpiece this golden headpiece. 

11:51 - Candice Bloch (Host)
You're going to have to check it out on YouTube to see what Tara's wearing. 

11:56 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
I wanted to say that on my flight, because I took a direct flight, an Emirates flight, from O'Hare to Dubai airport, and so it's 14 hours and I was like, okay, what can I watch? There's say yes to the dress, and there's also the. British say yes to this. 

12:16 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
I'm like well, you know, we did our podcast earlier last year with Abby Greenfelder, who came up with the concept of say yes to the dress. 

12:26 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
I texted you right away. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited because it's my one of my comfort shows and I love that show so much. And you're like okay, oh my gosh. 

12:37 - Candice Bloch (Host)
It is fun because obviously I think one of the draws of competition and reality type things is you get to the end result quickly, like what they pay for the dress or what the cake looks like in the end or what they design for the runway. So there's that satisfaction and it's really sort of quick and easy. So I remember I used to just sometimes I watched say yes to the dress for a while and then it got to the point, like Sandra was saying, you get a little tired of the same formula for certain shows so you can only watch so many seasons. 

13:07 - Voiceover (Host)
That makes. 

13:08 - Candice Bloch (Host)
But I would sometimes start it and then go watch something else and then maybe just catch the end to say, oh, this is the one that they picked. I was like I just want to know which one she chooses. That's all Right. You get to judge in the comfort of your own couch. Just be like oh, I would have done that style, I wouldn't have done that one. 

13:27 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
I thought Tara brought up a good point, though, which stuck, that it was her comfort show, and I think that's one of the issues is why do people watch? Is it because it's an opportunity to escape? Do we identify with the people that we're watching? Do we have empathy for them, or do we just kind of laugh at them? Do we suddenly, oh, we're rooting for this person to win survivor or we're rooting for this person to come out on top and in the bachelor? 

13:54 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Yeah, I think it does play into that voyeurism that we all kind of like that. Everyone likes people watching all that stuff, so you can kind of privately get a peek behind the curtain. There's always that fun idea of the peek behind the curtain, whether it's celebrities like the Kardashians. But then there's also the other side of that where there's a little bit of I don't know if manipulation is too hard of a term, but even for things like dance, competition shows like I love, so you Think you Could Dance, it's a fantastic show. 

14:25
But you put whether it's that show, another show, any of them, they increase timelines. You have to make something in a very short amount of time, or you don't get enough sleep or all this stuff, all these things that lead you to being a lot more afraid and emotional and quicker to break down in a confessional or an interview, stressed and exhausted. So it makes it more dramatic. And sometimes they'll, with editing, play up things. There's always the before the commercial break, the oh my God, did they drop the thing and it shattered. And then you come back and you see it was just like a whoop. Oh wait, I caught it. So they do all those things to build up the drama, but yeah, it's interesting what I think everyone might have their own reasons for watching, but there's probably universal things throughout I would like to share, like the only real. 

15:16 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Well, I guess I didn't realize the definition of like what reality show, because I never really thought of Say yes to the Dress as a reality show. But when we decided to do this topic I was like oh yeah, yeah, say yes to the dress. But I always say I'm like no, I never watched any of those. The Simple Life was a huge one for my friends and all that stuff and never watched Right Paris Hilton, paris Hilton. 

15:45
The Hills, all that stuff. I didn't really watch anything until the Keeping Up with the Kardashians because, going back to sort of not voyeurism, but I was like, oh, this is the first time I kind of saw someone I could. That was sort of like me. I'm a half Armenian and I'm of Iranian descent and actually I did a little bit of research on them in its first month but became the highest rated series aired on Sunday nights for adults 18 to 34 and was seen by 1.3 million total viewers, according to Nelson Media Research. And Kim Kardashian has explained the success of the show by saying that people tuned to watch the series because they can relate themselves to the members of the family. Someone is like Kim, someone is like Kourtney, someone is like Khloe and all sorts of stuff. But for me also and I remember this, this is in the Oprah Winfrey interview that Khloe said because people can relate to how they can see themselves in us. More people look more like us and we're not the well kind of now they are, but they're like. 

17:05 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
We're not the tall size, zero, blonde, the white, you know somebody such as Lauren Conrad from one of the like, I think, the Hills or something right yeah. 

17:19 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
And I remember exactly like several episodes they would be going getting laser hair removal, going for a workout wearing all black, having salad and everyone judging like you, you look fat and that you know kind of thing. I'm like, oh my God, that was literally my day with my family and I was like I actually just came back from laser hair removal. So I was so that it was kind of and you never saw that on television before, not from any fictional television show, not from scripted, so scripted and nothing like that. So it was very interesting and that was the first or like such a big family. 

18:02
Now I'm an only child, but every cousin we just went, I just saw some relatives here today in Dubai and they're my mother's paternal side, so they're actually my mom's cousins. I had never met but I knew exactly how we were related. So I saw my second cousin. You know, like I was like we just say cousins because we all keep in touch and stuff and that's very you know we can relate to that stuff and people are like, how do you watch the Kardashians? I'm like because we can see ourselves, because the majority of the planet have that kind of family growth and you know people don't mind their business kind of thing. So that is one of the reasons to it too. 

18:46 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
Right and they've been able to monetize that more so than other reality shows. For example, I just heard recently that the mother I can't think of her name right now Chris, so yeah, so, chris Jenner she became the manager of this group and she spearheaded the negotiations for their contracts as they moved from different networks. It's my understanding she is now going to be on a Super Bowl commercial Talk about monetizing that whole situation to your advantage. 

19:19 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Oh yeah, she's definitely done a lot with that. Like that whole family has become just products, yeah, and there's mixed feelings on that and how they've changed a lot. Like there's a there's is that little bit of being able to, you know, see celebrities and see how they're kind of like us, or see a little bit of you in that. 

19:40 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
And it's changed. Yeah, you do see a lot of, of course it's changed now. 

19:43 - Candice Bloch (Host)
They're not like us. And then sometimes you know you have the they think they're like us but they're, you know, super wealthy issues or things we can't really do, right? 

19:54 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
Well, that's with the Real Housewives. I mean to be a Real Housewife and this franchise is out of control. I think I think it's already jumped the shark. There's too many of these Real Housewives shows, but first of all, you need to first invest in Cleveland, get hair extensions and buy a pair of designer sunglasses and have your own makeup person with you to travel with you, to be a Real Housewife. Now it's become out of control, but I used to watch a lot of them. 

20:23 - Candice Bloch (Host)
I just find it so fascinating that they call themselves the quote unquote real housewives when it's basically, oh, the uber wealthy, that gets to be dramatic because their life is just, you know, insanely, I don't know extravagant and ridiculous, and they can be super wealthy. But yeah, there's all these different spin-offs. There's one in Dubai. 

20:44 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
There is the one in Dubai, but I will say I've never watched an episode, but I had a story about that because I lived in Nairobi, kenya, and my friend and I went to a museum gift shop and we went to the Sargallery and a museum and stuff. And it was like going through the gift shop and the clerk woman was watching something on her computer and we could hear it and I was like what is she watching? And they're like I know, she is not Kenyan, you know what I mean, she is from Tanzania, she's not even Tanzanian, she's from you know this or something. And I'm like what are you? I'm sorry, what are you watching? Because you get invested. And I was like I can't even see it, I'm hearing it and all that. 

21:36
So she's like it's the premiere for the Real Housewives of Nairobi and I'm like, oh my gosh, now I sort of saw how you could get addicted to it because I could only hear it and I was like what are she watching? So it's a completely different culture. And it turned out to be like a woman who is technically like her ancestors were Dutch and so they had moved many years ago to Africa and all sorts of stuff. But like, and it was still like this whole thing of like you're not actually African, you know all sorts of it was very interesting. I was like oh my gosh, and sort of the accents and stuff that they all speak English. It was very bizarre and I'm like what's New Jersey like? Isn't there one in? 

22:24 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
New Jersey. 

22:24 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Right. Well, there was the Jersey. 

22:27 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Shore that was also got big for a while. But yeah, I mean these shows. They let you see other cultures and other areas and other regions, which is interesting. But I'm sure people love finding how we're all similar. You know, drama and gossip is all over the place, so it doesn't matter where you're from. You're going to find some way to watch somebody be catty about some other person in their life that looked at them the wrong way or something, and that's another business person. 

22:55 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Isn't it Andy Cohen who made a business out of this? 

23:00 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
I understand that Real Housewife franchise, based on some research I did, actually started because of Desperate Housewives, which was very popular in prime time. It was created by Mark Sherry and Eva Longoria Terry Hatcher were in that. So then that kind of started it off and I think the first one was the Real Housewives of Orange County and Vicki Gundelsen, who was still considered like the OG of that particular group or out of all the Housewives that started and they all had like their tagline and then they had different pieces of drama happening. So which gets back to which area had the table flip? New Jersey, also the Real Housewives of New Jersey, you know. 

23:42
But again, all these different people, we have all these characters, we have all these different lines that we can say. And because of those shows and I think you know gets back to what Candice was saying before about the scripted there has to be. It's not so much that it's reality, there is some scripting going on because each one has a storyline and if you don't have a very vibrant storyline then you may not be on the show Again. You know, andy Cohen kind of oversees all the shows and has final say as to who may or may not. From what I've researched. I could be wrong on this, but you know who's going to be part of the show and what's happening. 

24:17 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Yeah, and it's not like scripting so much as kind of guiding and setting things up to attempt to get certain things to hit the right way and then clever editing and all that. But I mean we should, we can, we can talk to some reality TV producers later on the show and get some more information. That could be something that we, that we go for. But speaking of the real, the Real Housewives stuff, I also haven't seen any of the episodes, which is hilarious, because I wanted to watch some of the episodes. They did one in my hometown and I still haven't watched it. So I grew up in Potomac and they have a Real Housewives of Potomac and I'm like I still haven't seen it. 

24:55
But I think it'd be fun to watch, to just recognize some places. You know and that's another thing that adds being in DC I think we've talked about on some other episodes it is kind of nice when you're in an area where you get to see it on TV. You know a lot of scripted shows take place in DC, new York, you know LA, things like that, so you could see landmarks and stuff and go. I ran past that the other day, or you know. So that is kind of fun. So I think when they bounce around all these other areas and towns it gets closer to having those pockets of people also want to see or have a chance to bump into them while they're filming or be in the background. You know, it kind of feeds into all of that too. I don't know if you watched it. 

25:35 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
I watched the show called Unreal. It's a fictitious behind the scenes glimpse into the chaos surrounding the production of a dating competition show and I got hooked on that. I thought it was fantastic. They were again what Candace was talking about. When was that? It was a few years ago, and they would set up certain things in order for the storyline to go on one particular track. 

26:02 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Oh, ok, yeah, it's interesting. That's almost like it just makes me think of other shows like Punk'd and all those other like hidden camera type things where they try to get people to react and like what would you do? And stuff those kinds of things where they actually are deliberately scripting things to see, to get reactions from people. That's a whole other genre as well, and Punk'd became a big deal and a phenomenon in and of itself as well, and that was, that was a big thing for a while. 

26:31 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
I never watched the Bachelor. It's a Sarah Gertrude Shapiro was an. Unreal was a show that came out in 2015. And I sort of met her at an AFI film, american Film Institute. She had won a competition where they were trying to get more female filmmakers and she won it for a short film that turned into the full series of Unreal right, because she was a producer for the Bachelor for the first five seasons or something like that. 

27:09
And I went to the event and it's basically the first season of, and the pilot of, unreal, but it's about 10 minutes instead of the first 40 minutes and it's this woman and she has this T-shirt. She's like this is what a feminist looks like, or something like that. And you have this beautiful woman who is trying to keep her composure because she's about to get dumped on television, because you know he's going to dump her instead of the other girl and she's going to be like it's okay, you know she's trying to be a like leaving gracefully, but that's not going to make good television. And it's the producer this is what the feminist looks like and she's a mess. She hasn't slept and all sorts of stuff, and they're like you got to get us the shot right and she has to break this girl and get the shot. And she gets it. And everyone around me has watched the Bachelor and so they knew exactly what's going to happen and I had no idea what to expect and so, anyway, so Sarah comes on and she's like yeah, I was inspired because that was my job for five years and I hated it and things like that. So then when the show came on, I had to watch it and I was on a plane and I had a nine-hour flight. 

28:33
I had a nine-hour flight into 10 episodes. Season one was 10 episodes and I remember we were landing and like no, I'm not done. So it was really good. I highly recommend it, but I still hadn't never seen the Bachelor. But it goes into like the psyche of how reality TV has gotten the reputation of trash TV right, because it's a manipulation of it. 

28:59 - Candice Bloch (Host)
It plays into. What a lot of shows, even the 30-minute sitcoms and stuff, do is just the cliffhangers and wanting to tune into the next week. So it's always like is that drama going to be ramped up, is it going to be resolved, is it whatever? And then, but that's probably why I like the reality competition stuff better, because a lot of them have a kinder bubble around it. You know it's not vicious and drama it's, and especially like Great British Baking Show, like we were saying before, is one that I absolutely love because everyone's kind of just competing against themselves, trying to do their best. They form really great friendships and they're not malicious towards one another, they're really supportive, they become friends, they help each other out sometimes if they absolutely need to. 

29:50
And it's not this mean-spirited thing. I know there were some competitions. Yeah, some competitions wanted to try to be a little bit more vicious, I think some of the top chef type things in Hell's Kitchen, and they just get so much more angry. And I like the ones that are like blown away or face off or making it or you know, lego masters or a baking competition, because it's just fun. It's fun and you get to watch people be creative and you get inspired and you think, oh, I could do that. And the thing is they're doing things in accelerated timelines. So you think, okay, well, I saw, I learned a little bit about how something's made or how to do that. I got inspiration and you can take more time with it yourself. So I find those a lot more wholesome and more enjoyable for me personally. 

30:38
And then another one that we have to mention is RuPaul. Rupaul's Drag Race, because that is also a competition show. It's got a little bit of drama, but in kind of a not like, not a totally mean way. You know it's, it's performative, but they're just like the drag queens, like that's part of what they are and do, is they? They love that. It's been on a long time. 

31:00
But yeah also it just it's, yeah, it's. It's been running for a really really long time and actually I it started in. I had it pulled up as well. It started in I believe what two thousand and nine and it wins a lot of awards. Yeah, it has 1717 seasons, I think. 

31:21
And that's quite a yeah, and it just won the Emmy, just this, this most recent Emmy it won and yeah, I mean I've seen a bunch of it on and off again, because I, as we've talked about before, it's kind of hard to stick with the same formula of a show for 17 seasons, although I stick with things like the voice, because I think that's really good and so you think you could dance and stuff like that. Yeah, I watched all of the the season that had Lady Camden on it. Most recently it was a season or two back, because a good friend of mine danced with Lady Camden and they're they're good friends. So, yeah, it was really nice. So I got to, I got to meet Lady. 

32:00 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Camden in person. It was a fun time. Yeah Well, I had heard I've never watched it, but everyone I know who watches it has said it's a competition show, but in the best possible way. Like you said it, there's kind of like a a theatrical cattiness to it, but there's never actually a mean spiritedness. And what was interesting is I have met a few good friends of mine, one or two in particular. After COVID lockdown or during it, they I really had to figure some things out and actually came out as trans and they said one of the things that really helps them understand themselves and give them help is RuPaul Drag Race. And I said you really need to watch it and to, just because it helped me figure out my voice, I was like, wow, really, and I still haven't watched it, but it's it's. It's really interesting because I'm like it's a competition show, but you're nice to each other. 

33:07 - Candice Bloch (Host)
But see, I watch so many that are like that. So to me, competition shows like reality TV has still, I think, a reputation for having the ones that are more mean-spirited and because you do still have the shows like Real Housewives and stuff where they play into that drama. But there's so many. There's such a ridiculous wealth of options for things that are really sweet and kind and lovely and awesome and you root for the people and we're running long on time so we do kind of need to wrap it up. But it also, I think, brings us full circle with like you see people. 

33:45
It's representation. You're seeing yourself in it. You're seeing people that aren't at all like you and getting a glimpse into their quote-unquote. I mean, you're getting a bit of their real lives and real personalities and stuff, because it's not scripted, so there will be a bit of that coming out. They're not acting. Some might be playing up certain dramas or certain angles or certain parts, but ultimately you're just watching real people, in bizarre situations sometimes, but you're watching real people and it's nice. It's nice when you can see a wider variety of people and just existing and find those common grounds I did want to add. 

34:19 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
Sometimes they really can be helpful as far as, especially on Bravo, there is married to medicine, so you have several OBGYNs and they're talking about. A patient will come in and talk about the breast cancer and how they just survived it, other issues they're talking about. They're trying to get pregnant. They'll really talk about what options they are doing. So that can probably help other people, just as what Tara had mentioned with RuPaul's Drag Race. 

34:46 - Candice Bloch (Host)
There's a ton that do that and even more that I don't even know if things like Shark Tank and stuff like that would be considered reality TV, but then, yeah, there's all sorts of medical ones that people can maybe either relate to. I used to live with someone who liked watching the pimple popper one and I was like I can't look directly at it, but yeah, she watches that show. 

35:09
Yeah, and that's the thing. There's literally something for everyone out there and we all have different tastes. That's the thing. That's the reality. As we know, between the three of us, we all have the things that we all like and hate, and that's what makes all of humanity wonderful, and art is so subjective and all that, and visual storytelling, this whole medium, and that's why this is another fun one to talk about. This is on screens. It's getting a peek into these crazy worlds and a lot goes into bringing them to us, but you can get a lot out of them. 

35:44
So do you guys have any final takeaways or shows to recommend that maybe people might not know about or that really touched you or is super fun? I would recommend, if people aren't very much into reality TV, trying some of the more wholesome ones, some of those more creative subsets. There's fun ones about a lot of different crafts and interesting worlds that you get to find out about and see how things are made, and I used to watch even how it's made. I don't know if that counts. That doesn't count as reality. That was just a showing machinery making things. It was such a good show, but no, there's literally an endless amount. I could list so many that I watch, whether it's dance, singing, baking, cooking, sewing, whatever. Then there's other things like even like, I think, queer I would probably be considered reality, and there's a lot of advice and things in that and that's also feel good and wholesome. 

36:43
It's just you learn so much by watching them. But yeah, I would say, try to find ones that are not exploiting drama and find the wholesome ones that lean into creativity. That would be my suggestion. But if you also just love the drama, go for it. You know I'm not going to judge. So, Sandra, what's something that you think is like a really good recommendation? 

37:03 - Sandra Abrams (Host)
People have not watched any of the real Housewives shows. If you haven't watched Below Deck with Captain Lee or Captain Sandy oh yeah, I've heard a lot about Below Deck I recommend that you tune in to Andy Cohen's show on Bravo. It's called Watch what Happens Live. His guests are usually women from the show or other castmates from Vanderpump Rules, with Lisa Vanderpump and her people that work for her. You're not sure about them. Watch Andy Cohen's show, watch what Happens Live. You'll get to know the personalities a little bit and then you can start watching those shows. If you find any of those characters that he's interviewing interesting and they are they always have some crazy thing to say To go for it, yeah. 

37:52 - Candice Bloch (Host)
All right, and Tara anything specific or otherwise. Say yes to the dress. Yeah, OK, that's the solid one. Is it still going? Is it still producing? 

38:00 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
new ones. Yes, new season's coming out like spring. 

38:05 - Candice Bloch (Host)
And is it still based in Kleinfels? 

38:07 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Yeah, dude. 

38:08 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Yeah. 

38:08 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
OK, all right, just making sure. Then there's, like Tan from Queer Eye Hazard in England. It's awesome. I was watching it on the phone. 

38:16 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Well, so much to so much to look into. Yeah, welcome to new content and you can see us. You know the little reality of our situation. You can see us on YouTube now. Thanks for listening. Thanks, everyone. 

38:32 - Voiceover (Host)
Thank you for listening to Media and Monuments a service of women in film and video. Please remember to review, rate and subscribe wherever you listen to this podcast. For more information about WIF, please visit our website at wifesandfrankviesandvictororg. Media and Monuments is produced by Sandra Abrams, candace Block, brandon Ferry and Tara Jabari, and edited by Emma Klein and Jess Thompson, with audio production and mix by Steve Lack Audio. For more information about our podcast, visit mediaandmonumentscom. That's a wrap.