Market News with Rodney Lake
"Market News with Rodney Lake" is a show offering insightful discussions on market trends and key investing principles. This program is hosted by Rodney Lake, the Director of the George Washington University Investment Institute.
Market News with Rodney Lake
Episode 14 | Navigating Internships and Networking: Insights from GWSB Student Will Ahrens
In Episode 14 of "Market News with Rodney Lake," Rodney Lake, Director of the GW Investment Institute, sits down with Will Ahrens, current GW student and investment enthusiast, to discuss the value of internships and networking for aspiring finance professionals. Will shares personal experiences, emphasizing the importance of starting early in the internship process, building genuine connections, and trusting your instincts when making career decisions. The episode highlights practical advice on leveraging resources from GWSB, the significance of mental models and paying it forward in the professional world. Tune in for actionable insights on navigating the competitive business landscape and investing!
Rodney Lake
Thank you for joining Market News with Rodney Lake. This is a regular program for the GW Investment Institute where we talk about timely market topics. I'm Rodney Lake, the director of the GW Investment Institute. Let's get started. Welcome back to Market News with me. Like. I'm your host, Rodney Lake. We're kicking off today from the innovation studio in Duquès hall.
Rodney Lake
Thank you to the Duquès family again for this great space. Today is episode 14 and we have our first student guest Will Ahrens. Will Ahrens please introduce yourself.
Will Ahrens
Thank you so much for having me, vice Dean Lake. I'm so excited to be here. I'm Will Ahrens. So I'm a senior studying accounting and finance. Originally just from outside San Francisco. And I'm really excited. Thank you.
Rodney Lake
Yeah, well, thanks for being on the show. Well, so let's first talk about how you found your way to GW. And so this is the first.
Will Ahrens
Yeah.
Rodney Lake
From San Francisco. That's a long way right.
Will Ahrens
It is a long way. And it was it was a big trek across the country. Definitely. So, one of the main drivers for coming to the investment institute, I mean, if you look back, is applying to school over, Covid. And so it's difficult to really.
Rodney Lake
Fast on such a thing.
Will Ahrens
Definitely. And so I didn't get to visit a single school except UW. GW wow. For good. It was the only one I visited. It was a great fit. Loved being in DC pre-COVID and said, why not? And so one of the draws was to come to DC to be in the city. And I also found the investment Institute pretty cool.
Will Ahrens
And there wasn't many other schools doing something like that at the time.
Rodney Lake
Okay, well, I'm glad that was a draw. I see a little bit self-promotional for the investments. People will take it for sure. Slightly. Thank you. Well for saying that. So let's move on to. Okay. When you got between your school of business, let us know what you're studying. What are you studying here? And you know what's important right now on your agenda for this year?
Will Ahrens
Yeah. So originally I was a finance major, really liked the accounting coursework, and figured it was, you know, in the wise words of Buffett's great to to surround or to fill that in that level of knowledge. So I picked up an accounting major. I'm back in my sophomore year. And now finance and accounting. And this year I hope to complete my CPA by the by the time I graduate.
Will Ahrens
So big things happening in terms of getting a CPA done. But it's it's a lot of work. But it's it's good.
Rodney Lake
Well good luck with that. Thank you. Now let's shift the focus just a little bit to the investment institute. So you've been involved with the Investment Institute for a few years now. Thank you for that. But let us know how that started.
Will Ahrens
Yeah it it really started back all the way in freshman year. And in getting involved with the investment Institute, a lot of it is is the classes. A lot of the students will come in, but they'll take their classes junior or senior year of their time at UW. So for me, I wanted to to get in early, to have that experience as early as I could.
Will Ahrens
Yeah. And so two outgoing seniors at the time, Ethan and Dasha, I'm sure they're listening out that shout out there, they connected me with you and the investment Institute. And that very first spring, I applied for the venture capital internship program, which I think was the only second time the investment. And it was early.
Rodney Lake
Days for that program.
Will Ahrens
Yep. And applied there and was placed at a portfolio company. Mr. Asper, called and said.
Rodney Lake
To thank you, David.
Will Ahrens
So it was it was great experience working at Institute throughout the summer of my, my freshman year. And it was a lot of fun, really.
Rodney Lake
And what did you learn from that internship? Maybe just from the whole experience of being exposed to the venture world?
Will Ahrens
Yeah. Well, one, I think it was like the first connection with startups. And I love the feeling of nothing ever having been done before and like doing everything from scratch right, was a great feeling. So at a startup specifically, I found myself like doing a bit of Python work, doing a little more like business operational work, actually learning how to manage projects and to launch a product from just an idea to an actual, you know, product that you could sell to customers.
Will Ahrens
And so working at a startup, I think was a great opportunity to have both sides of that see a little bit of what's out there in the business and then be in sort of that environment, very fast paced, almost like a fire drill every day, which I really enjoyed. And I think it sort of set myself up to what I wanted in the future.
Rodney Lake
Excellent. Now moving on. What other things did you work on at the Investment Institute while you're here at U-dub?
Will Ahrens
Yeah, so I took the class very early on, too. So sophomore year, the fall of my sophomore year, I got to take the Phillips Student Investment Fund. Really enjoyed the class and figure it out. I want to keep staying, keep working for the investment institute in some capacity. So the following spring, I worked as a project assistant, helping sort of the more operational work of the investment institute.
Will Ahrens
And we ran the annual conference that year as well, which was a big was quite fun.
Rodney Lake
Yeah, a lot of fun, a big hit. Thank you for the help.
Will Ahrens
And.
Rodney Lake
Aaron Kershner, shout out another name.
Will Ahrens
There you go. And then in my junior year here, it did for the investment Institute, both in the Phillips, Stu investment fund for your class, then. Thank you, professor song. And this year I'll be teaching. We have two sections this semester and then next semester as well.
Rodney Lake
Excellent. Well, thanks for doing all that work. And so it sounds like the investment institute has been pivotal during your experience here. But now let's maybe pause and shift to, you know, it's important for students to think about, you know, getting experience along the way. It sounds like from our brief discussion before, you've had a great experience from your internship, this past summer, could you maybe talk a little bit about how you got to that internship and the internship itself?
Will Ahrens
Yeah. And I think it really goes back to what I did last summer, a sophomore year, was working at, a portfolio company at Blackstone called Health Hedge. And it was Healthcare Technology Company, and I was working on the accounting team. And that was sort of my first foray, foray into accounting. Yeah, I really enjoyed, the work.
Will Ahrens
The team was really great. I found myself thinking, oh, you know, accounting is cool. I like the coursework. I don't know if I actually like doing, like, the accounting work in the day to day. Sometimes I'm some of the members of the team describe to pass. It's kind of backwards looking in a way and figured, okay, I like the little bit of finance, I like the accounting work a lot, and I also like being the proximity to companies like that experience that the startup gave me.
Will Ahrens
And so I was thinking, oh, where could I combine all of these together? And I was actually, it's funny enough, speaking with another investment Institute alumni, Jordan, who gave me the term and another.
Here’s the edited version with timestamps removed:
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Rodney Lake
Shout out.
Will Ahrens
Another shout out. And, he gave me the term value creation. He was working at an infrastructure and explained value creation. Okay, it's not just one thing to own an investment and be passive, but also to be doing the operational work, putting in the operational partners to actually make the investment better or to drive higher returns.
Will Ahrens
So I thought for myself, okay, where do all these areas come together and where does that value creation come together. Components specifically and somehow came across restructuring and I think, okay, this is the place where I want to chase and where I want to be. And that's led to this summer where I was at Berkeley Research Group.
Rodney Lake
Excellent.
Will Ahrens
In New York in their turnaround restructuring group, which was a ton of fun.
Rodney Lake
And maybe can you talk about the day to day and maybe even before that? Let's back up. For people who are not familiar with restructuring Group, could you describe what that actually is?
Will Ahrens
Yeah. And there's a couple different parts of restructuring. So you have your bankers principally on one side, and then, Berkeley Research Group is considered sort of a financial advisor serving as interim management or taking up the operational know-how.
Rodney Lake
So, for example, if a company is failing or has failed and is going into some sort of bankruptcy restructuring, depending on what chapter that reorganization would be, the most likely in this case, Berkeley is going to come in and advise the company and/or take over management. Is that?
Will Ahrens
Accurate descriptions. Yep. And then there's also what you described as the in-court process. But then there's also out-of-court. So working with companies ahead of time and sort of performance improvement or retail performance improvement and just supporting companies along the way. From the stress cycle to distress and then bankruptcy, which is the end of the line there.
Will Ahrens
So sort of that all-encapsulating view of the operational, the financial, and really like the value creation idea when we think of companies.
Rodney Lake
And so you learned about this value creation from Jordan Shine Cup. Shout out. And I think it's important for current students and really everyone, you know, we're name dropping today quite a lot a little bit intentional because these are all alums. These names that we're mentioning. And I think it's important for students to think about current students and alumni to make sure that they work and build their own networks.
Rodney Lake
And really, our GW alumni are, I think, ready to do that even for current students. And I think you're a great example of that. Your current senior, you've name-dropped a bunch of names already for alums who are willing to help you. And I think that's important. But you took the initiative and reached out to them. So thanks for doing that. So let's get back to the restructuring. What appeals to you about restructuring? So you worked your way through. You worked on the equity side as an analyst in our classes. But the Phillips fund, your pitch Kellogg. Just for everybody. But now you get to Blackstone and now you're even more precisely squarely on restructuring. What appeals to you about this type of business?
Will Ahrens
Yes. But specifically, I think there's two main areas. One is the proximity to actual business. It's one not just being an advisor. I think in some advisor roles, they seem to be in the next room over or advising on what the capital structure should look like or, advising or an M&A deal or looking at some kind of from the next room over there.
Will Ahrens
One, I really like the proximity to actually being in the room with management and working on what the company actually is, which at the end of day is the providing product or providing a service. So I like the closeness to that. Right. It feels very real to me. And I think the second thing that's sort of unique about this sort of advisory is the turnover of different companies.
Will Ahrens
You don't want to be in a chapter 11 process long. So there's always something new to work on. And over last summer, the firm does a really good job making sure summer associates have a great experience, not just on one project, but on multiple different projects to really understand the different processes and the different ways that, from like BRG advisors, different companies.
Rodney Lake
And could you now maybe talk about what helped you from GW in the Investment Institute? What you know, the things that you learned here on campus, what helped translate into doing a good job? I'm assuming that you did a good job this past summer. What helped you make sure that you did a good job?
Will Ahrens
Yeah. There's so many different angles to take on this one. I think one of the things and advice to other students out there at GW is to take Investment Institute courses as early as you can. I think what really helped me is that I like the work, and I found it really interesting. And so even before getting into it, I was like, oh, this is really exciting.
Will Ahrens
There's so much to learn about here. And that sort of curiosity, I've always found that I do my best learning and do my best work when I am really curious.
Rodney Lake
Most people are.
Will Ahrens
And so I don't think I would have had that feeling without being exposed to just a variety of different things. And the Investment Institute does a great job at that, especially in the classes. I think my semester we brought in so many different names just from a variety of different industries from, you know, short selling to equity research to banking or just, you know, working in corporate finance at a firm.
Will Ahrens
So having that sort of broad exposure, I think, is the best thing you could be doing to get that experience. And I think it really helped me at the end of the line.
Rodney Lake
Yeah. And I think that's good advice for all students is make sure you get out there and you really try to understand the market. You know, when you say finance and people think, oh, well, maybe that means investment banking or asset management or sales and trading it, and maybe that can be a very narrow view of the world.
Rodney Lake
It's such a big business. It's growing. It's evolving. Restructuring is not one of the first things that people think about. Typically, but it's an exciting business. Another shout out to Gallup, who's on the investment and advisory board and is squarely in that business, that Marvel gate. And so it's not something that people immediately think about, but it's a really big business.
Rodney Lake
It's a fun business if you like that type of discipline. And I think it's just up to the student to try to figure that out. And I think it's important that you're saying this, that it's up to also the student to make sure that they get exposed to those things now. So promotion, we'll talk about the investment student and come to our classes and we'll say that.
Rodney Lake
But even if you're not in one of our classes, which I hope you are, by the way, I'm not just you, but everybody, of course, is get out there. There are different clubs. You can get exposure to different individuals, alums and connect with people on LinkedIn, email, whatever it takes. Many of our alums are willing to talk to current students.
Rodney Lake
So I think it's important that you're saying this, and it's important for students to really take that accountability and make sure that they put the work in, but meet some of those alums, get some connections to different businesses. You'll probably find out which one that you like. And maybe it's going to be a little bit more nuanced than you had thought about.
Rodney Lake
But with the different exposure that's certainly going to help. So now. Hopefully you can say you got, you know, the summer internship between sophomore and junior. Now you got the internship between junior and senior. Maybe number one, talk about the importance that you think that that provides. And then number two, maybe we can get to that. What was the outcome at the at the end of this summer?
Will Ahrens
Yeah, definitely. I think everybody, at least in history or finance adjacent close to it understands like oh, the junior year before your senior year, you really got to get an internship. And the pressure's kind of on. And now with recruiting timelines being so early, you're recruiting for junior year.
Rodney Lake
Right.
Will Ahrens
Earliest, you're following.
Rodney Lake
The draft could be even out of high school at some.
Will Ahrens
Point. I mean, at this rate, it could be, so it comes earlier and that makes it even more difficult to figure out, like you said, what you want to do. And so spending a lot of time on actually figuring it out and doing what you want and looking to do what you what you want to do.
Will Ahrens
Yeah. I think is the most important thing you can be doing. And why was so important for me to figure that out? And once I identified it, to go in and chase it like you have to do. But the summer was great. Really enjoyed the work. And I'll be going back next summer at the end of it.
Rodney Lake
Nice.
Rodney Lake
Congratulations.
Will Ahrens
Yeah. So it goes to show kind of, you know, the outcome of this junior year internship, you could be in a great position to figure out where you'll be going or if not, what you want to do better. Right. And I think it's, that's what internships really enable. And I know GW, GW specifically really pitches that, you know, take as many internships as you can, get yourself out there just to have that experience, because I don't think without, you know, working in the startup land, what I have known to okay, this is I like this environment, right.
Will Ahrens
How do I replicate that somewhere, somewhere else.
Rodney Lake
Right.
Will Ahrens
And then accounting healthcare technology from I really like accounting. I don't think I could do it, but I like it. Yeah. And then going back and using that to go to the next one. And so I think with this thing, it's a great fit. Well, it'd be a great fit at five, ten years. I don't know, time, but that's, that's kind of the beauty of it.
Will Ahrens
And I think that's the exciting feeling as well. Does these internships really enable you to, to figure out what you want to do? And in many cases, which is just as good to figure out what you don't want to do. Right.
Rodney Lake
And I think that's excellent advice. You know, you get the internships and sometimes it leads you to something that you want to do, and sometimes it leads you to things that, hey, I don't really want to do this, but I'm aware of that, and it's time to move on and find the next thing. And I think it's also worth emphasizing that these internships provide, you know, these types of, experiences early on in the process.
Rodney Lake
And as you mentioned, the importance of getting these things done early. Yeah. And I think it we probably can't emphasize that enough. You know, it's like maybe the NBA or Major League Baseball draft says they're taking students from high school in some cases. And so it's really important for our students to think about, hey, the recruiting process is for all of these competitive businesses, start earlier and earlier.
Rodney Lake
Now, and it's a competitive market. And if you want to be in a place that's most interesting to you, it's probably going to be a competitive setup. So get the work done early, get those internships early. So I think that's excellent advice and thank you for saying that. So let's move on to some general advice. You mentioned a little bit of advice along the way.
Rodney Lake
So there's some things in here we we've already talked about, but other advice that you could give to current students at GW.
Will Ahrens
Yeah. And I think it's one thing putting it out there yourself out there professionally to inside the business school, there's so many different networking and just opportunities to meet other students. Which I think without that, you know, this whole journey for me at least, would have never started. Right? So finding organizations here at the School of Business that really fit what you're interested in, I know there's this riff out there to some of the coed, a business, fraternities and really just.
Rodney Lake
BSP the spread them out.
Will Ahrens
And finding sort of the organization, the people you like. I think that leads to a lot of great, great outcomes. I think specifically in GW GWP that it should be leveraging, you know, think about leveraging it in your personal life, right, during your academic life and then also moving out there professionally as well. I mean, if anything.
Will Ahrens
And it goes back to what you said, it's just a matter of practice. I can remember at the very beginning of and I only know this now retroactively. Oh, in networking or networking. Right. It seems like.
Rodney Lake
Everybody says.
Will Ahrens
That. Everybody says that. And, some people say, oh, you know, it's, more of a dirty word. Oh, you don't want to be networking. It's very transactional, right? But, you know, networking, you actually get to meet someone at the end of the.
Rodney Lake
Day.
Will Ahrens
And you can meet some really interesting people. And so for me, you know, being genuine throughout the process and really understanding that I'm not going to connect with everybody. Right. And all it takes is kind of one, to get where I want to go or just, you know, to meet someone I think has been invaluable to, to learn.
Will Ahrens
I hadn't realized that until only a couple, maybe months ago after I was getting out of things. But it all is with a purpose, right? You just gotta. It's something you have to keep going through. But I think the best thing for me, at least I realize, is you'll know it when you feel it. Yeah. And really got to trust your gut in this kind of things.
Will Ahrens
Whether it's, Oh, you got an offer at one place. But it doesn't really feel right. Maybe that, you know, you should listen to that, or you want to talk to this one person. It didn't really go so well. There's probably someone else. So always just remembering. Trust your gut. Yeah. Putting yourself out there.
Will Ahrens
And there's plenty of people to talk to and plenty of experiences to go around. I think.
Rodney Lake
To put the work in and trust your heart, though, of.
Will Ahrens
Course, I think definitely.
Rodney Lake
And I think one thing worth emphasizing here is that many people talk about networking, and especially here at the business school, we talk about networking a lot. I think one of the things to emphasize, as you mentioned here, is that it needs to be authentic, and it's really about building relationships, as you mentioned, it's not just about being transactional.
Rodney Lake
And hey, how many people can I meet in this amount of time? Or how many connections can I create on LinkedIn in this amount of time? It's more about, can I build some connections with these people that are real, connections that are authentic, and I can build a relationship with these people, and if they're if there's a way for me to add value to them at some point that's building a relationship where, you know, if you can help them, that's wonderful.
Rodney Lake
And if they are willing to help you, that's wonderful. And one of the things I always want to emphasize is if you got help, not just you in this case, but any of our GW students, you know, pay it forward. Make sure that you pay for it, because you may not be able to pay back that person specifically if they helped you out, you know, made sure that you saw a part of the business that you maybe wouldn't have seen, making sure you got to some analysis, maybe you got a connection, introduction, whatever it happens to be, making sure that our students think about that consciously and pay it forward when they have that
Rodney Lake
opportunity. So we hope you'll do that. I'm sure you'll do that well and pay it forward with it for the next people at GW. So now let's move to wrap here to what worldly wisdom beyond advice, what worldly wisdom do you have for us? Or for anyone watching the show or listening to the podcast?
Will Ahrens
Oh, that's a big question. I think to take it back. And I know we're big proponents of fundamental investing Benjamin Graham, Warren Buffett, just some advice from Charlie Munger. Lately I've been sort of more into mental models or approaching the way we think. Yeah. And trying to think or not just say better, but more clear.
Will Ahrens
Right. And I think there was one principle that I learned from, from him and some of his writings was, to always invert, and using that sort of framework to look at different things has been really helpful for me, and it's been helpful for me to put together a little toolkit of, okay, a little mental models that I can use to think better and think more critically.
Will Ahrens
I think is is important. So always invert being one of them I think is helpful in the internship search too, for sure. Always look backwards, and trust your gut at the end of it. At the, at the end of the day, because that'll be your best mental model, I think.
Rodney Lake
Excellent Well, restructuring seems like an inversion, so always invert. So I think that's a good place to end on. Thank you all for being our guest. Joining us for market news with Rodney Lake. And now we'll wrap for the show here. Thank you again for watching Market News with Rodney Lake. We'll see you back on the next episode.
Rodney Lake
Disclaimer the content shared. GW Investment Institute podcast is for informational and educational purposes only, and should not be considered investment advice. The opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the host and guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the GW Investment Institute or the George Washington University. Listeners should not act upon the information provided without seeking professional advice from a qualified financial advisor.
Rodney Lake
Investing involves risks including the loss of principal. The GW Investment Institute. The George Washington University. In the podcast, hosts do not assume any responsibility for any investment decisions made based on the content of this podcast. Always conduct your own research and consult with a financial advisor before making any investment decisions.