The State of Education with Melvin Adams

Ep. 18 "Age-Appropriate Sex Education in the Classroom" - Guest Lori Kuykendall

• Melvin Adams • Episode 18

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Is graphic sexual education in the classroom justified, or are political ideologies treating students like lab rats? Today, our guest is Lori Kuykendall, President of Beacon Health Resources in Dallas, Texas. Melvin and Lori discuss the differences between information and ideology, how education is a preventive measure, and the relevancy of teaching sex education in schools in a culture that barrages kids with unhealthy sexual ideas every day.

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ADAMS: I am Melvin Adams, your host for the State of Education. Thank you for joining us. Today in the studio I have Lori Kuykendall—she is the president of Beacon Health Resources, located in Dallas, Texas. 

Becasue there’s been so much focus on sex and gender and all the dysphoria around that subject in our schools today, we are gonna talk about that very thing. [00:30] And we’re going to discuss this whole idea of sex education in our schools. Lori, welcome to the State of Education. 

KUYKENDALL: Thank you! I’m so glad to be with you, Melvin, and I appreciate the work that you are doing across the country 

ADAMS: Well thank you so much. Now, a quick look at education-related news will quickly stir up some opinions on sex education programs in our schools. [01:00] So tell us a little more about yourself and your background in sex education programs. 

And here’s the real kicker: is something wrong with the focus on sexuality that we are seeing in our schools today? Some of the programs out there are disturbingly explicit. 

KUYKENDALL: Well that’s a big question for us to lead into. I’m happy to share a little bit about the reason I might be diving into an answer about sex education [01:30] in the United States and really beyond that even. 

My background is in health education. I have an undergraduate health education and later earned my masters in public health and health promotion. So have been about promoting health and I typically define that as physical, mental, emotional, social, and spiritual—5 of those tenants of health that make up whole health. 

And in that regard, we focus a lot on prevention and education in terms of helping people be healthy [02:00]—helping young people be healthy. And that has focused in the schools. Have worked in the schools in Texas for 27 years now, I guess, and beyond through my work with Aim For Success, one of the largest abstinence providers in the nation. 

And later with the Medical Institute for Sexual Health, and now working to really focus in on sex education within schools—empower parents, but equipping policy makers and school board members, [02:30] the educators and adminstrators that are all around the curriculum. 

And we can talk a lot about what happens at the local level, what happens at the state level, what happens at the national level. But the short answer to your question is yes, we have a big problem in what is being taught to our kids about sex. 

ADAMS: The news is filled with information about this and a lot of parents are deeply concerned. Things that they had no idea about, [03:00] some of the stuff that’s being taught openly, in our classrooms (even starting with little children). 

We see the recent decision by the Florida governor and the legislature regarding decisions to curb and limit some of that content for the early grades. And there’s [03:30] not only the whole idea of boys and girls and sexual distinctions and differences and stuff, but now we have all the transgender stuff going on and some of this is programs that are taught specifically in schools—some that are maybe not clearly curriculum based but are being promoted nonetheless. Talk to us a little bit about that before we launch into, [04:00] maybe, better solutions. 

KUYKENDALL: Well one thing I like to say—we’re hearing a lot of concerning content, right? Graphic information at younger and younger ages and parents across our nation are alarmed. And they should be. But I think it’s important to understand that what is taught in classrooms varies tremendously across the nation. 

In some classrooms in some districts, nothing is taught on this topic, in other districts really good—as we would call it—abstinence-until-marriage curricula [04:30] is taught. And then in a number of districts across the nation, really concerning sex education is taught. 

So it’s really important for parents to find out what’s happening locally for them and understand what is being taught to the children in their neighborhood. That could be good, bad, or otherwise. But you kind of have to start there. And then you can apply what we’re learning nationally. 

And that really breaks down into two different approaches around sex education: you either [05:00] have an abstinence-til-marriage message, and that is found not necessarily in religion or politics or morals, it really is a health message. You heard me speak to my background in health education, and so we teach abstinence until marriage as a health message in health education classes. 

And yet, the other approach leads a whole different direction. It is rights based instead of information based. It is promoting sexual consent, it is promoting [05:30] sexual freedom, right? That’s sex without consequences, sex without committment, it’s really devalued and it really has a fallout accross health for our young people. 

We know they’re struggling emotionally and mentally. Very few people really understand how bad the sexually transmitted disease problem is: and teen pregancy and abortion. All of this is fallout of what was taught to them in the classroom and by our culture. 

I think that’s another important point to keep in mind. We are upset, [06:00] and should be, about what’s being taught in our schools, but remember that our kids are influenced by the greater culture as well. So we want to get good things coming to them in the schools, we want to get good things coming to them in our homes so that then together, they can counter the cultural influences. 

ADAMS: That’s a really key statement that you made there. Something we fully agree with—that what’s taught in the schools certainly should be something that reinforces what is happening in the home. [06:30]

Unfortunately, we realize that there are many homes that are completely dysfunctional. But, by and large, across the culture I think there are certain standards and norms of behavior. Of course, the whole idea is maybe one that you can address later, but when is an appropriate time for a child to start learning about sex education, [07:00] however that term… What does that actually mean and to what extent? 

And maybe that’s a tiered process. But the real issue is, is this an issue for parents to teach? Is this an issue for the schools? Is it something that, because of the way our culture is, needs to be in both? Talk to us a little bit about that. 

KUYKENDALL: Well, I think it’s a weighty question, Melvin. [07:30] Absolutely parents are the primary sex educators of their children. Children will take on the values—whether they’re caught or taught—of their parents. And so if those values point more towards waiting until marriage, they’re more likely to take on those values. 

If those values point a different direction, then they’re more likely to take on those values as well. But I do feel (and you’ve heard it in my background in health education) there is a role for schools to speak to helping young people make healthy decisions [08:00] and speak into health education which includes sex eucation. 

I think that’s an important part of this discussion. We know healthy students learn better. So I can totally follow the argument that we should focus on academic subjects only in school. And yet, there is a place where physical, mental, emotional, relational health should be upheld in terms of training children to be successful both academically and after their school years. [08:30] 

So I think there’s a place for health education in schools, I think that there’s a place for sex education—age appropriately, as you said, as they’re coming into a tiered approach. That happens around puberty as they’re preparing for those bodily changes that will happen in they’re growth and development. 

But I think that there is a place to found that teaching on health principles—you know, sometimes we’re pigeon-holed into being religious, or conservative, or not [09:00] medically accurate, or all of these things that are said about the abstinence message and they just are not founded. 

There is a place to help young people counter all of the cultural messages that seek to harm them. And that harm is for their current and future health. So, yes, I see a partnership. And you and I have visited, I think, previously, about just really reaffirming that partnership between parents and schools so that children are learning a consistent message—a reinforcing message, [09:30] “reinforcing” is the word I think you use—reinforcing home ideas and school ideas. Then they’re better equipped to stand up against the cultural threats. 

ADAMS: Yeah, that’s right. And so it’s kind of almost like, if I could just use a parallel perhaps, at home we should be teaching our children to respect others, to give people space, not to be aggressive [10:00] and abusive and so forth. 

And at school, we should reinforce that by making sure that bullying is not tolerated, that it comes with consequences and that we teach students that when they observe bullying how they should behave and how they should respond in appropriate, healthy ways by challenging a bully by simply saying, “Hey, stop that. That’s not [10:30] the right thing to do.” without escalating, but to just stop the process and to help intervene in an affirmative and positive way to help de-escalate a situation. 

And the same thing, I think when you get a lot of kids together, spending lots of time together and the hormones start raging and there are just natural, biological processes that start to take place, [11:00] how do students respond to that? 

They’re either going to respond to that just by their animal instinct, or they’re going to respond to it on knowledge-based, informed behavioral standards that are for their good and for the good of others. Is that kind of what we’re talking about? 

KUYKENDALL: I think so, that was very well said. I love that you spoke about [11:30] character education. And we often talk about character and relationship education—that supportive foundationally of sexual health development, positive, optimal sexual health development. 

We like to use that word “optimal”, really what’s best for them, and as you said, others as well. I think it makes schools really relevant when schools can take on topics that are impacting the students, right? Like you said, their hormones are raging, they’re doing these things after school or on the weekends. [12:00] 

They’re thinking about their sports activities, so it’s important to learn how to be healthy and stronger with nutrition, for example. It’s all part of growing whole children. And I think it really compliments and reinforces all of the academic work, which—structurally—is the focus, and getting them through reading, writing, arithmetic. 

And yet, if they're distracted by a relationship problem, or they’re distracted by physical suffering or mental stress, [12:30] or something like that, then they’re not able to learn. So I love to talk about that partnership between healthy learners learn better and perform better academically and become healthier adults. 

So I like to talk about protecting their current and future health with the behavioral kinds of information. We like to reach their knowledge, but then it’s their values, attitudes, and beliefs that really impact their behavior. 

ADAMS: So, Lori, out of your experience, you’ve developed [13:00] training and curricula and all this type of thing that you’d like to see in schools. You’d like to see some policies developed around those better health behaviors. 

So as we have parents, educators, and legislators who are listening today—talk to us a little bit about… [13:30] really focus in on the heart, or the core, some of the big stones, so to speak, of the curriculum that you have put together.

KUYKENDALL: So an important distinction to understand—and you probably talk about this in other academic areas—is that state learning standards are set at the state level. I believe it’s the tenth amendment that keeps that from being set at the federal level. 

So then the state standards are set, [14:00] the state sets the standards for what children will learn and what age levels… and that really is the “what” they will learn. And then curriculum decisions happen at the local school district. And most of our states have many school districts. I know Texas has twelve hundred, I was looking at New Jersey the other day, I think there was 700. 

So they get really small. And then those curriculum decisions happen in those small school districts. So what we’ve worked on is standards that are different [14:30] than those standards being pushed by our opponents. There is an opposing message. Some of the key leaders that you’ll run across  national, of course Planned Parenthood is the largest provider of sex education in the world. So they have a different kind of message. 

There’s SIECUS, which is Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States. There’s advocates for youth, there’s a number of these national organizations who are quite forthright about what their agenda for our young people is. 

In fact SIECUS [15:00] says that it is “sex ed for social change.” And they have 5 key priorities, one that includes dismantling white supremacy of what they try to do with sex education. So of course they’re pushing LGBTQ equality, reproductive justice—that’s abortion—there is an opponent here. 

And they’re very coordinated here and in our standards and in our curriculum. So my work has focused around standards and working with state policy makers to get the standards [15:30] set differently. In fact, I brought a picture of it—it’s easy to find online—it looks like this! I’m about to do a quick promotion, but it is a tool I want your listeners to have. 

ADAMS: Sure! 

KUYKENDALL: It is the “K12 Standards for Optimal Sexual Development” you can find them at newsexedstandards.org, and you can donwload them for free. But they’re intended to be that tool—so it’s not so much what we don’t want in schools, although we need parents who are challenging and who say, “We don’t want this in our schools.” [16:00] 

But what I want to do is give parents and school board members and state board members an alternative that says we want this instead. So get out the concerning, get out the negative, whatever word you want to put in there. And then bring in the positive, medically accurate, age-appropriate, parent-centered, family-centered (all of those things) that we did with these new standards. 

ADAMS: Yes. 

KUYKENDALL: So I hope that kind of makes sense as kind of a tool that’s at the standards level. There are a whole handful of excellent curricula [16:30] that uphold these standards. Leaders in the field of abstinence and sexual risk avoidence education that I’m happy to point folks to, but it really starts with what are we going to teach and the curriculum is the how to teach it. 

ADAMS: Excellent. So I’m assuming that these resources can be found on your website? 

KUYKENDALL: Yes! The website is newsexedstandards.org. 

ADAMS: Newsexedstandards.org. 

KUYKENDALL: Yep.

ADAMS: Alright, very good. [17:00] So we’re going to encourage everybody to go check that out and learn more about what you’re doing and the ideals that you’re promoting. So outside of that, are there other resources you would recommend or maybe even stuff that you are doing? You know, what other resources would you recommend to parents and teachers on this topic? 

KUYKENDALL: Well I think a lot of it is maybe not even so much your resources [17:30] as it is a relationship. That it’s an approach to that partnership with schools that parents are going to go in—first of all, I should start with even saying to the parents: your concern is founded, right? 

It is justified, we should be concerned. I think parents, for the most part, are waking up to these concerning ideas, so let’s start there. And then say you’re not alone in that. Because I think parents can feel defeated, or overspoken [18:00]  by the district or administrators or things like that that really get us from having the confidence to speak up for our kids. 

But then I think it becomes this confident relationship—to use that word again—of partnering with the schools, to really find out what they’re teaching, really bring to their attention what is wrong or concerning with that teaching—if there is a concern there. And then be prepared with an alternative. 

That could be the sets of standards I’ve shown you, and the appropriate curricula [18:30] for your area. Curricula is very regional in terms of what works best in New York City is different than what works best in rural West Texas. 

So curriculum decisions… and many districts even write their own curriculum. There’s a lot of complexity around curriculum. But I think it helps with that what are we teaching and we’ve got to oppose the national sex education standards. 

So if you come across the national sex education standards, know that they’re not [19:00] national—they’e not been ratified by any official, governing organization nationally, and know that they’re probably concerning and against your values as a protective parent. 

ADAMS: Excellent. 

KUYKENDALL: And so our new standards would be an alternative to that. 

ADAMS: Well what you’re saying is very appropriate. Here at Noah Webster Educational Foundation, we believe that the most useful thing that any of us can do [19:30]—whether it’s organizations or parents, educators, whoever—is bring solutions. 

So solutions start with a clear understanding of a better, big picture idea and then breaking that down into ways of appropriate implementation. And so, as you’ve been sharing, it’s not just going [20:00] into the school and complaining about things you don’t like—and that’s important. 

Our administrators, our librarians, and certainly our school board members need to hear the things that are concerning to you. They deserve to want that. 

But they also need to hear how can it be made better? And I think that’s really what you and I are speaking about. [20:30] What are some ideas, what are some recommendations that we can bring that can help them improve what’s being done and really fall-in more alignment with the values that parents have and that the community may have and so-forth. Am I hearing you correctly? 

KUYKENDALL: Yes, I love that we are in accord on that. I think that there’s so much misinformation [21:00] that has been couched as truth—or maybe so much subjective information that’s been couched as objective information, if I could make that comparison—and I think we want to be about upholding objective information. 

Information is different than ideology or persuasion or opinion. I was just just evaluating a curriculum that’s been proposed here in in a local district and it’s one thing to give information about gender identity and sexual orientation [21:30] (which I will circle back on) but this was complete idology, persuasion, critical of those who don’t hold the same view. 

So it went a whole other direction and I think we’ve gotta come back to biology and an objective science—I know that’s been up for discussion in the culture today. But on this particular issue I would like to differentiate—and again maybe circle back to that gender identity piece—

ADAMS: Sure, go ahead. 

KUYKENDALL: That is a whole other topic in some sense [22:00] than sex education. So teaching reproductive and sexual health, puberty and adolescant development and all of those things, typically happens later than some of the gender ideology that’s being pushed for younger children, those K1, 2, 3, grades that we’re looking at. 

And it’s such a threat to a young person’s sense of safety and security. To introduce to a six or seven year old that they may be in the wrong body, goodness what a scary idea! [22:30] But I think as we think about this adult agenda—and it’s a dangerous one and it’s  fast-moving—but it’s those youngest little guys that are most at threat, if I could say it that way. 

So we’ve got to come back to science, age appropriate, medically accurate, all of those things… this curriculum I mentioned earlier really pushed cross-sex therapy and gender-affirming therapy [23:00] which are harmful, physically and emotionally, and none of those risks were metnioned. 

There’s just so much. The culture is out ahead of us. There’s so much that parents or school board members are feeling alone or defeated on and I love the work that you are doing. 

You know, we are coordinated, we’ve got the resources, we’ve got the confidence and relationships to go in and really go in and uphold, in a way that respects and brings relationship and ultimately solutions. [23:30] I think we’re a pretty fierce army to be reckoned with if we can get our steps in sync. 

ADAMS: Absolutely. I think you made a very important statement. When we talk about our educational system, when we talk about our schools, what needs to be eliminated is ideology. And what needs to be promoted are core principles, [24:00] best practices, real sciences, and good health behaviors. 

And that applies, really, in all curriculum. Because ideology is driven by political mechanisms. And while politics finds its way into every part of our society and culture, our little kids [24:30] should not be held captive to political ideas—or even worse become lab rats for experimentation around political ideology that, lets’ just put it bluntly, in any other diologue would be considered extreme child abuse. 

I mean, I’m just going to call it the way I see it. It’d be extreme child abuse. [25:00] And yet, because political ideology in education is being promoted, all of a sudden, it is now justified. And it’s like if somebody is sitting in a at the edge of the school parking lot and is peddling pornography, [25:30] the guy’s a crminal. 

But if we’re peddling it in our libraries and in our textbooks, and if we’re talking about the kind of graphic sexual conversations that are being had in our schools—if htat was hapening by somebody that was not inside the system, it would be criminal and our state laws would come down on that individual. [26:00]

So we’ve got this crazy thing going on in our society where it’s almost like we’ve got a parallel… it’s the oxymoron type of thing. And I think our parents are starting to recognize this and it’s very concerning, very alarming, and I don’t believe for a minute that the ideologies that are being promoted in so many of our schools [26:30]—I’m not saying it’s in all, I don’t believe it is—but in so many and what is being really pushed by certain entities within the educational structure, there’s a lot of money behind it, there’s a lot of power behind it and what parents, and those of us who really want education to function the way it should be, is we’ve got to get rid of the ideology [27:00]and come back to true core principles and best practices in education. 

KUYKENDALL: You know, I’m thinking about, as we’ve talking about, parents—and I also think about teachers and administrators, of course the paid staff of schools and then I know there are school board members to be worked with at the local and state level—and I think we’ve got to do better at equipping them with [27:30] the information, with the science and educating them to make those kinds of policy decisions and have the confidence to stand against this wave of cultural takeover. 

ADAMS: Sure, yeah. 

KUYKENDALL: I think we’ve got quite a few cowering in their boots, not really sure what to do and certainly afraid of offending or afraid of losing a job, or who knows all of those dynamics. But I think we’ve all got to work together for those key leaders. It starts in the classroom [28:00] with the teachers, and then goes out to their administrators and beyond to the elected school officials, school board members in their area. 

I think all of those people need our resources. They need to know the issue, I say make sense of sex education, understand really these two opposing approaches, understand the pronounced agenda of the opposing side and then stand strong with an alternative. That’s a lot, that’s gonna take a lot of us, [28:30] but I think we can do it, I think we’ve got nice momentum headed that way. 

ADAMS: Yes we do. And we have to remember, let’s keep the main thing the main thing. Education should be all about what is best for the children, for their future. Because ultimately our children are our country’s most precious possession. 

And how we invest in them, how we equip them to be good citizens is absolutely vital. [29:00] So thank you for being with us today, thank you for the work you’re doing. Give us your website once again. 

KUYKENDALL: Sure! You can meet the New K-12 Standards for Optimal Sexual Development, that resource is available, free, at newsexedstandards.org. The organization I lead called Beacon Health Education Resources is new—just has a new Facebook page. I’m happy for you all to put people in touch with me as best we can. And I’m happy to be a resource where I can [29:30] be on this topic. 

ADAMS: Lori, thank you for joining us today, thank you for all the great work you’re doing to help reclaim America’s education and culture, so nice to have you with us today. 

KUYKENDALL: Thank you. Bless you guys! 

ADAMS: If you enjoyed today’s episode of The State of Education, please hit that “like” button and subscribe. And please feel free to share our podcast with your friends. We’re able to share this podcast because of the generous support of our donors. [30:00]

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