Bio Mum Conflict: Understanding Her Side Without Losing Yourself as a Stepmum

For stepmum support, tools, workshops and coaching, visit: https://stepmumspace.com

This episode offers something rare — a candid, compassionate look at stepfamily life from the bio mum’s perspective. Hearing the other side doesn’t invalidate the stepmum experience; in fact, it often brings understanding, clarity and a deeper sense of empathy for everyone involved in raising children across two homes.

In this episode, Katie talks to Elizabeth*, a biological mum of three whose ex-husband is now in a new relationship. Elizabeth shares openly about the emotional complexity of being the parent “left behind,” the grief of losing the family life she imagined, and the shock of navigating co-parenting when communication breaks down.

Elizabeth speaks with honesty about:

• The pain of her ex not being open about his new partner
• Receiving a legal letter accusing her of harassment — and how blindsided she felt
• Hearing about her children’s new experiences in the other home and not being part of them
• Realising that all the things her husband said he “didn’t want,” he now wanted… just with someone else
• The emotional fallout of watching your children form bonds with a new parental figure
• The vulnerability that comes with separation, change and sharing your children

This episode is a gentle reminder that everyone in the stepfamily system has feelings, and the more we can understand each other’s pain — in a considered, kind way — the healthier the whole system can become.

We are incredibly grateful to Elizabeth for her honesty, vulnerability and willingness to share her side of the story.

Not her real name.

In This Episode We Explore:

• What co-parenting feels like from a bio mum’s perspective
• Why secrecy around new relationships creates distrust and conflict
• The grief and jealousy bio mums may experience
• What it’s like to watch your children build relationships you’re not included in
• The emotional impact of legal letters and accusations
• Why empathy across households matters more than we realise
• How openness (when done kindly) creates calmer, healthier family systems

If You Need Support
Book a free introductory coaching call: https://www.stepmumspace.com/booking

Learn more about Katie’s work: https://www.stepmumspace.com

Keywords:
bio mum perspective, stepfamily dynamics, co-parenting challenges, separated family emotions, stepmum and bio mum relationships, stepmum podcast, high conflict co-parenting, blended family understanding, emotional support for stepmums, co-parenting communication

Helpful Links:
Stepmum Space website: https://stepmumspace.com

Instagram: @stepmumspace
1:1 Coaching & Couples Coaching: https://stepmumspace.com

Understanding each other’s stories creates space for compassion — and compassion makes stepfamily life lighter for everyone.

If you’ve been listening to this + recognising your own situation, but not seeing things change, this is exactly the kind of work I do inside my programme, Back in Control. It’s for stepmums who feel like they’re overthinking, adjusting, or walking on eggshells, and want things to feel calmer + more stable. The next round starts April 17th. More details in the link above, or DM me “CONTROL” on Instagram to talk it through.

Transcript

Katie South 0:01

Hello, I'm Katie, and this is Stepmum Space, where each episode we talk candidly about the fairy tales and scary tales of Stepmum life. So whether you've been a Stepmum for years, you're just starting out, or you want to understand the Stepmum in your life a little bit better, this is the place for you. I wanted to say a massive thank you to those of you who've taken the time to rate or review the podcast this week. It really helps with getting the show to more people who need us. So if you take something from these episodes, please do drop us a rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts. It really only takes a minute and it massively helps me and Stepmum's face. I've also been asked a lot to set up a Facebook group for fans of the show, so if you want to chat to others in the same boat, head over to our Facebook group by searching Stepmum's Face at Facebook. The other thing to let you know about is that I've got a couple of one-to-one coaching spots left. If you're interested in finding out more about improving your Stepmum life through transformational coaching, you can find out more and contact me through the website stepmumsface.com. Now let's get into today's conversation. I am so excited to be able to share this with you. My guest today is Elizabeth. Elizabeth has been dating someone with kids since last summer, which is how she found me. But having listened to the podcast, she was keen to share her experience as a bio mum as well. Yes, ladies, we have a bio mum on the show, so this is a doubly good listen. I hope you enjoy the chat as much as I did. So hi Elizabeth, how are you today? I'm fine, thank you.

Elizabeth 1:43

I've got a little bit of a cold, but other than that, I'm good, thank you.

Katie South 1:47

Yeah, I think it's that time of year for sniffles. I'm a bit sniffly as well. So between us, we'll uh we'll see how we get on. Um, so it was really brilliant when you got in touch with me. And I know, Elizabeth, there'll be lots of women who will really enjoy this conversation because you actually got in touch with me via social media and said, Hey, I've just started dating someone with kids, but actually also my ex-husband has met somebody. So I'm also the kind of biological mother in that role, and that's something which kind of comes up time and time again. And I think it's gonna be really interesting to have a conversation about how it feels from your side of the fence, because often what stepmums will say to me is, you know, I wish I knew how she felt, I wish I knew what was going on, I wish I knew why she was behaving that way. Um, and so I'm really, really looking forward to getting into the conversation and just want to say a massive thank you for getting in touch with me.

Elizabeth 2:40

No problem at all. I hope it is helpful. That's the main reason to talk to you. Um, just yeah, to hopefully help somebody else in in my situation or in the stepmum situation, who, yeah, as you say, is probably not sure what's going on.

Katie South 2:55

Yeah. Why don't you share a little bit about what's happened in your life over the last 18 months? Because this is kind of where it's all begun, really, isn't it?

Elizabeth 3:03

Yeah, absolutely. So I would have been married for 15 years this year, um, and I've got a 13-year-old and 11-year-old boy and a six-year-old daughter. Almost a year to the day, last February, completely out of the blue. My husband at the time announced the end of our marriage, told me that he used to be able to do what he wanted to do when he wanted to do it, and now he can't. And off he went. No discussion, no other reasons given. He did say we don't want the same things, but he didn't tell me what it was he wanted or asked me what I wanted. So he left and I was, yeah, left with the three children and a dog. I luckily wasn't, although in hindsight, probably not, but I wasn't working at the time. Um, so I didn't have that to contend with as well. And then he sort of came in and out sporadically over the months after that, and then we started talking about him seeing them every other weekend, which is what's continued.

Katie South 4:07

So that you know, 14-year marriage out of the blue husband announces he's off. I mean, how was that for you?

Elizabeth 4:17

It was horrendous. I was in total shock. He literally had just not said anything up until that night. I just could not believe someone could do that. Uh just end a marriage, no discussion, that's it.

Katie South 4:33

Did you have any desire to want to work on it? Was that ever a conversation?

Elizabeth 4:38

Or I come from a very traditional family background, parents who are still married, sort of 2.4 children. And I've always been like, you know, you get married and that's that's it, you know, you make that commitment. And I know marriage is hard work. Um, our marriage was hard work. He I mean, interesting to hear his side of it, but he he never really he told me when I first met him he didn't want children, but he said then he did want them if I wanted them. But then as it transpired, he was a he was a very absent father, he was a very absent husband. He went he worked a lot abroad, um, was away a lot with business, worked long hours, so even when he was in the country, I was doing the main share of the childcare anyway. I was working up until four years ago as well. So we we had a nanny, and then again, sort of I felt like I was always parenting with the nanny rather than with him. So if he'd have actually asked me how I felt, I would have said I wasn't very happy. He wasn't the husband I wanted, and he wasn't the father that I wanted him to be. I never would have ended the marriage because I would have been worried about the impact on the children. Also, my personality and my background in just marriages, you know, for life. So it was horrendous. It was a huge, huge shock the way he did it, and the way he's behaved since has just shown a total lack of thought towards anyone else but him. But I think the reason that I am so calm about everything is because I know that long term it's the right decision for me as well. I just wish he hadn't done it how he'd how he'd done it. And the shock was horrendous. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat, I was taking sleeping tablets, not remembering things. Just, you know, I've never been through anything like that before in my life. It was it was hell, hell.

Katie South 6:41

And I guess you've kind of somebody sort of says to you they're not happy, then you start to question, well, what's what's the rest of your relationship? Like which bits are real and which bits aren't real?

Elizabeth 6:51

Oh, most of it. I now think our whole life has been a lie. I just think the whole thing. I mean, even I got a bunch of phrases on the 14th of February last year from him, and then he did it on the 21st of February. So a week later. I mean, it's just like so what what was what was real?

Katie South 7:13

And do you now looking back have any idea why he left?

Elizabeth 7:19

I think he told me. He he felt trapped, and now I know because it then transpired in October half term that he'd met somebody else, which he didn't admit to at the time. I don't know if we crossed over. I mean, he he absolutely knew her because it was a work colleague, and he talked about her a lot the year before, over lockdown. He talked about her because they were having lots of video chats together. So he ended the marriage in February. He he essentially left the family home at that point, but officially left in April when he then got an Airbnb somewhere, but I don't know where. Um he was very, very, very cloak and dagger about everything. There was no transparency about where he was living. I let him come and have his weekends with the children in my house. I'm staying in the family home so that everything stayed the same for the children. So from April, he started having them every other weekend in between his skiing and other pursuit holidays. So I let him have them here. That was very, very hard because I used to go away and leave them, which I found really tricky. Then things went a bit wrong a couple of times when he had them here, and he had friends over to the house, mutual friends of ours over to the house, drinking until four o'clock in the morning, and the children not going to bed, homework not being done, all that kind of stuff. So eventually I started staying at the house when he was here too, but just stayed in my bedroom, really, and then just made sure that everything was actually happening as it should. And then he moved, and that probably prompted him finally. Uh he found somewhere to rent in July.

Katie South 9:06

Yeah, and it's interesting because I think a lot of people who have been a single parent, myself included, kind of having that dual life where you've got your kids one weekend and got them another weekend is really difficult. But it it does mean that you can sort of do your partying, whatever when you don't have the children. So it seems odd that with that much free time he chose to do four a.m.

Elizabeth 9:31

I know. I mean, he has 12 out of every 14 nights to go to bed at four o'clock if he wants to. It's very odd. But this is, I'm learning him. And he's never, you know, he's never been the responsible parent. It's always been me in that situation that would get the children to bed and then go to bed at a reasonable hour because I knew I had to get up with them the next morning. Whereas he wouldn't, he'd stay up drinking till four o'clock because he knew I'd pick up the pieces the other at the other end. He just didn't want his life to change. So then he asked to take them on holiday for October half term, which I I did view as a positive, but I was a bit worried because he before he left me, he'd never had the three children by himself before.

Katie South 10:12

Because he was travelling a lot for work?

Elizabeth 10:15

No, because he was very selfish and he would have his own activities at weekends, and he would never ever commit to having the children or being with the children. So if I ever wanted to go out in our marriage in the evenings or weekends, or organise any weekend activities, I always arrange childcare. So my parents or babysitters, because he would never commit to looking after them. Wow. Yeah. So as you can see, this is a good thing that our marriage has ended. He's having more time with the children now than he's ever had, and hopefully that's going to be, you know, a benefit for everybody. In August, he says he wants to take away an October term. And I say, I don't really know what I feel about that. I'm just getting used to you having them for weekends, and a long haul flight and you having them for a week by yourself feels a bit scary for me.

Katie South 11:07

I'm interested in that, Elizabeth, because a lot of the time women stepmums will kind of come to me and say, you know, the mum says that he she's worried about him having the kids by himself, but he's their dad. So it'd be really helpful if you can just help us understand like what sort of things were you worried about?

Elizabeth 11:26

Okay. So he's never packed for them and doesn't really know what they need. When he travels, he just goes, Oh, all I need is a pair of shorts and flip-flops, and I think, oh, he's never bought sun cream, he's never taken bought cowpol, he's just not nothing, nothing. Goggles, all our children wear very strong prescription glasses, so they've got prescription goggles. He won't have thought about that. And anything, they lose everything with him because he doesn't pay any attention to any of their stuff, he just expects them to deal with it. So even now, uh, they've just been on holiday again, and one of the children has come back without their very expensive headphones, which is very frustrating. They never come back with their charges, they lose loads of stuff. He has always been on a phone when we've been by swimming pools, so I've always been worrying that he's not actually watching them swimming or in the sea, and he's not getting them to bed. On that October halftime holiday, my six-year-old told me that she didn't brush her teeth all week. You get honesty out of her.

Katie South 12:34

So very valid concerns, and I think that it's probably quite insightful for stepmums listening because I know sometimes it can feel like oh, biological mum's just kind of creating problems and being difficult and doesn't want dad to parent the kids. But it sounds like in your case, you really did want him to parent your kids.

Elizabeth 12:53

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I want him to. He's their father. It's just that he's not ever shown me he can. I was petrified. I mean, seriously. And where did that conversation go then from there? He emailed me and said, I've spoken to my lawyer, and if you don't let me take them on holiday, then I can take them, take you to court and get permission. Which felt very aggressive. He wouldn't talk to me though about my con this is the whole problem that we have not up until now, hopefully we will now, been able to have open dialogue about actually what the concerns are. Because if he'd let me talk to him and I'd said all of that, I'm sure he could have reassured me. But he didn't give me the opportunity. So you get that letter, and this is so I say I'd already spoken to my lawyer, and he'd said yes, he can take you to court and he would win. So I just wrote back and said, Absolutely, you can take them on holiday. Please, would you let me know the flight details and where you're staying and who you're going with? And he didn't give me the hotel details or the flight details, but he told me they were going just the four of them.

Katie South 14:07

And what was his reason for not giving you flight details and hotel details?

Elizabeth 14:11

Didn't give me a reason.

Katie South 14:12

See, that's another interesting one, but people who listen to the show will know that I have a son with my first husband, and I have always asked for flight details and hotel details because I'm such a warrior and I want to know if they are somewhere, you know, God forbid something awful happens. I just I want to know where they are. I've never looked up a hotel on the internet, I've never been interested in finding out anything about them.

Elizabeth 14:37

I know there are people who do, but it's safety, right? It's just safety. And if I see on the news that there's a fire in X hotel, I just want to know if that's where my children are or not. Okay, so he's going on holiday, the four of them. You don't know where. What happens next? So I pack for them, uh, which again is quite frustrating when you're packing for your children to go on holiday what you're not going on. And why didn't he pack for them? Because all their stuff is at my house. Okay, yeah, yeah. So I pack for them, he picks them up, they go away. He still doesn't give me flight details or hotel details. So I message him and say, if you get a chance, please would you possibly let me know? Uh, which he finally did. Then they got back, I knew because I had the flight details on the Saturday, and then on the Sunday morning, my six-year-old daughter rang me up on her iPad from his house in her bedroom and said, Hi mummy. I said, Oh, darling, how are you? Have you had a good holiday? I didn't hear from them at all during the holiday. I did ask if I could have a couple of planned FaceTime calls while they were away just to say hello and see them. Um, but that didn't happen. And what was the reason for that not being allowed? Um, it I don't think it was not allowed. I he just ignored me. I think it just wasn't on his agenda, and I I don't know, but I didn't push it because I thought they can contact me. The boys have both got phones, and I thought if there was a problem, I know they'd call me. I was actually secretly quite pleased that that they didn't call me. As much as it hurt me, I was pleased they didn't because I knew they were okay. So that was good really, but I was upset that my ex hadn't, because I felt quite brave asking him, please can I just have a couple of phone calls with them? Oh lola, don't want to intrude. I was being very polite, I feel, and I didn't get anything back anyway. Sunday, my six-year-old rang me from his house and said, Mummy, did you know that daddy was taking us on holiday with his work colleague? And I said, No. And she said, Mummy, guess if the work colleague was a boy or a girl. And I said, Was it a girl? She said, Yeah. Yeah. She came with her five-year-old son, John, and John ruined the holiday because he was he, I hated him, I didn't like him, and he was there the whole time. I said, Oh, right, okay. And my heart was racing, and I was thinking, Oh my goodness. So my then ex-husband then came onto the FaceTime call behind my my daughter and saw that I was on the phone with her and looked a little bit sheepish and just said hi and walked off. But I don't think he heard what she told me. Then I got off the phone from her and just burst into tears and rang my brother, who's been very, very supportive to me over the last year, and I said, Oh my gosh, he's taken them on holiday with this new girlfriend and her son, and didn't tell them or me it was going to happen, and still hasn't told me. And then all the children were brought back to me that night, the three children by him, by himself, dropped off. He didn't mention anything. My 13 and 11-year-old told me that he didn't tell them until they got to the airport. At the airport, he said they were meeting, he said they were meeting a work colleague. They spent the week with them every day, and they thought she was pregnant because she felt sick and she didn't ever carry any bags, and Daddy had to take them all out, including her son John, for the day one day because she felt sick, so they thought she was pregnant.

Katie South 18:20

And I can't sort of wrap my head around why he didn't tell you because it doesn't seem like you're a really difficult human being who's gonna kick off and refuse to let him take the children. So I I can't understand on what planet he would think A, you wouldn't find out, B, it might be a bit unsettling for your kids. I I I mean, did you confront him about it?

Elizabeth 18:46

So the boys told me all of that, uh, and the pregnancy bit, which obviously my daughter hadn't said the more in the morning. I then went up to my bedroom and rang him and I said, Is this woman your new girlfriend? And he said, Yes. And I said, and is she pregnant? And he said, Not that I know of. And then I said, Do you really think it was appropriate to take our children on a week's holiday with a stranger who you've now lied to them and told them as a work colleague without telling them or telling me it was gonna happen? And he said, We didn't go on holiday together.

Katie South 20:23

Okay, there's surely some sort of lying, at least by omission, going on. What what what did he say next?

Elizabeth 20:31

And then he said, Do you think it was appropriate for you to ring me in front of the children and ask me this? And I said, I think I'll decide what's appropriate from now on. And I hung up. Then I got a text message from him saying, It's obvious something's angered you from what the children have said. It's understandable, seeing as they're only young children, that they may have said something that's not true. If you have a problem with anything, please would you ask me directly? And I just ignored it because I just thought I think in his head he's justified it because they weren't sleeping in the same place because they weren't in the same hotel.

Katie South 21:17

So they were staying in separate hotels, but they were meeting up every day. So he had convinced himself it was okay to say they weren't on holiday together.

Speaker 2 21:23

Yes.

Katie South 21:25

Okay. I mean, men sometimes um are like, oh god.

Elizabeth 21:31

So I mean, it was ridiculous because then it was my 11-year-old's birthday the next week, and we all went at his request for a family meal together. He and I were sitting opposite each other at the table, and the children were sitting there talking about their holiday and the people that were on holiday with them.

Katie South 21:48

And when you say we all went for dinner, do you mean with the new work colleague slash girlfriend slash? No, no, no, no, I've haven't met her.

Elizabeth 21:55

No. Okay. Because at that point she was a work colleague, and the boys were told she was a work colleague, but they came back and said to me, Daddy said she's a work colleague, but obviously we think she's his girlfriend.

Katie South 22:09

Yeah, I mean they're teenagers, they're not stupid, right?

Elizabeth 22:13

No. So it just gives you an indication of how little he knows his children, because he didn't realise that they'd realize.

Katie South 22:20

So if you don't mind, Elizabeth, just to kind of help us understand what's going through your head as a biological mum when you suddenly realize, okay, my husband's left me, maybe for this woman, maybe not, who knows? But there's now going to be another woman in my kids' lives.

Elizabeth 22:40

It's very hard. It's very hard because I knew nothing about her. I know she just spent the entire week with my children because some of his behaviour in my mind has not had the best interest of the children at heart. It's difficult to trust that he's made a good judgment on a new partner. It was really hard hearing that she'd spent one of the days with my six-year-old and taken her to a hair salon to have her hair cut and to a beauty salon to have her nails done, which I've never done with her. And that was really hard. Just because it's like a mother-daughter thing that you kind of think would be nice to do, and I'd never done that with her, and also the other hurtful thing was my husband had never ever, ever given me the opportunity to do that, so he'd never taken the boys somewhere or been at home with the boys, so I could do something with my daughter. And I'm thinking, what's happened to him then that he's looking after the boys and her son and giving this woman an opportunity to have a day with my daughter. That was hard.

Katie South 23:55

Yeah, well, yeah, I can understand that. And hopefully, the women listening who have wondered why it's tricky for an ex, you can give them some insight into that. Now, there'll be people listening who will be thinking, well, he's 50% their parent, you know, they're 50% of him, they're 50% of you. It should be up to him who he picks as a partner.

Elizabeth 24:19

Absolutely. No, it should be. No, I absolutely get that. It's just that I had no idea who she was. So it's the unknown, isn't it, that's scary. That's why I just let him get on with it. I I and I do let him get on with it. I don't, I don't interfere because I know it's I have to let go, but it's very, very hard. That autotype half term, letting go, not contacting them, not you know, was very, very hard because I am used to the person being the constant in their lives and knowing everything about them, booking the dentist, booking the optician, doing their homework, getting them through exams, doing everything. He has no involvement. So for to go from me knowing every inch of their life to them gone for a week was even without another woman involved, was very hard. And then to hear that I'd been lied to, and also why why was he not open about that? What what's wrong with her? Why why is he not telling me? You know, all all because of all the lies, I think it gives you room to fill in blanks, doesn't it?

Katie South 25:31

Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds like he wasn't willing for whatever reason to when you came back be able to have that conversation with you. So when you once you've kind of said, Well, I'm gonna decide what's appropriate, how did the relationship pan out between him and you? And also, can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with his partner? If they're yeah, of course.

Elizabeth 25:59

Then what happened was I let myself cool down for a week, didn't hear anything from him after the birthday meal. So that was the Sunday, the birthday meal was the Tuesday, then we didn't speak until the next week. I spoke to my lawyer just because we were having a catch-up on the divorce, and I said, Look, he's done this, I know it's not illegal, but I was very disappointed that he took the children away and told me it wasn't going to be with anyone else, and then another this woman's turned up, and he just said, Look, he hasn't done anything illegal and he's their father. I said, I know. So I said, Okay, I just need to get on with it. He said, Yeah, just basically you need to get on with it. Okay, okay. Then I got a letter from his lawyer the next day, so I think that would have been just over a week, no, yeah, 10 days after they got back, saying, Your client, i.e., me, has been looking up my new partner online when my six-year-old had rung me and told me who he she'd been away with. I Googled her to look her up. I feel any normal mother would look up a person who's just been on holiday for a week with their children and she didn't know about it. But people might be listening thinking I'm completely crazy. So I Googled her and I clicked on her LinkedIn profile, and I didn't do anything other than read it, but obviously it notified her that I'd looked. So I got this email from my lawyer, from his lawyer, saying, You've been looking up his new partner on the internet. We hope this is not meant to be harassing or threatening behaviour. That my ex-husband had been straightforward about admitting he had a new relationship. He's been so straightforward about everything. If you want to know any more, please contact him directly. Don't try and connect with his new partner. Wow.

Katie South 27:57

I mean, I 100%, if that happened to me, would be more than curious about who my kids had been away with. And you know, it's interesting because I can't think of any of the women that I've spoken to who have ever met the children in such an intense abroad period. Like it is very unusual. Normally it's much more of a gradual thing.

Elizabeth 28:25

If you look up how to introduce a new partner to children, which you can Google quite easily, going on a full-on holiday, not warning the children, you know, everything, none of it was thought about in the best interest of the children.

Katie South 28:41

So you get this email, which obviously makes you feel pretty told off, I'd imagine. Oh god, yeah.

Elizabeth 28:47

I just responded via my lawyer ridiculously, because God knows how much that's cost us, saying, thanks very much. Elizabeth just looked up this woman because her children had told her that they'd been on holiday with her, which she was not aware of. It was not meant to be threatening or harassing. Thanks very much, basically.

Katie South 29:09

That was it. And like, I do think it, you know, we talk a lot about high conflict bio mothers, but it does sound in this situation like it's dad who's creating conflict, because I don't know on what planet you could think looking someone up on a public platform on a public profile is stalking in harassment. And actually, if this woman is a mother herself, you would think there would be some level of empathy. When I first met my partner of my my husband, I remember saying to him, like, please reassure your ex that I'm not going to try and be another mum to the children. And I really understand how painful it is to share your children. And it it feels quite strange, actually. Not I and I don't want to judge because who knows what's going on, but it does feel quite strange. I wonder how much say his partner had in the holiday arrangement. Like, do you guys now have a relationship?

Elizabeth 30:06

What happened after that was every other weekend, now that my ex-husband has the children, um, she was just there with her son, with John, and he would pick the children up from my house and drop them off. At the end of December, it was my 13-year-old's birthday, and he picked them up to take them out at the 13 year old's request, took them out with her. I didn't know that he was taking them out with her at the time. They got back, I'd had a burst pipe in the garage just before they got back, and I opened the door, covered from head to toe, wet through, and managed to just turn the water off, but the electrics had all. Fused. It was freezing cold. And I opened the door and I said to my ex-husband, Oh my gosh, I've just had a burst pipe, and blah blah. And he dropped the children off and he went, Okay, bye, and he left. And then I had two children in tears for various reasons. The 13-year-old happy because he'd just been bought a brand new iPhone. And then I realised she was in the car, and that's why he'd zoomed off. And I thought, what a shame. Because that might have been a nice opportunity just to say hello and just introduce. But obviously, it was awkward because he he wouldn't he parked the car up the road instead of outside the front of the house. So he obviously wasn't planning on any introduction. Um, but then he did zoom off, obviously, because she was in the car. So then he had them for Christmas uh on Christmas Day. He picked them up and then he didn't tell them where they were going, and they went to a hotel in London and spent the day with all her extended family, aunts, uncles, parents, spent all day there. What was really, really hard is my six-year-old was bought a necklace by the new partner that was a certain insect, and was told that all of the women in her family have this same necklace, which was really hard. Because I felt like she was trying to sort of trying to be a mum, trying to be trying to get her into her family, which felt very hard. I think she was probably just being trying to be really nice to her and include her and make her feel welcome. So I completely see it from her side, but that fat that felt quite hurtful and difficult. Then they went skiing with them, and they came back and said that the new partner didn't ski, and she normally did, so that arose my suspicions that she might be pregnant, and then they've just had another holiday abroad and come back, and there's photographs of the new partner, and she is definitely pregnant. My six-year-old told me that she'd asked the new partner if she was pregnant, and she'd said yes, and it's a girl, and then my boys who are 11 and 13 had asked my ex-husband, is your girlfriend pregnant? And he'd said not that I know of, and that was last week. We can assume that even though your husband is pretending he doesn't know whether she's pregnant or not, that she actually is, if there's well, what happened then was we all sat together and taught the three children and me, the boys and my daughter are very confused, and my 13-year-old said, 'Mummy, I think you need to speak to Daddy about this. And he said, 'Mummy, I think that daddy needs to tell my sister that his girlfriend is his girlfriend because she still doesn't even get that.' And he's quite right. She does not understand that because the new partner was introduced as a work colleague. She does not understand that this is Daddy's girlfriend, and she said that the new partner told us she was pregnant. My daughter told me that the father is John's father, and it's not Daddy, so she's incredibly confused. So this week I texted my ex-husband and said, Please can we meet up? And we met up on Tuesday morning. Today's Thursday, isn't it? And we talked a bit about our divorce because we're nearly at the end of the divorce. And then I said, Is there anything you wanted to talk to me about before we talk about the children and what I wanted to say? And he said, Yes. And he said, My new partner is pregnant. And I said, Okay. I said, When's the baby due? And he said, May. I said, okay. I said, How is she and how is the baby? He said, actually, it's been quite a tricky pregnancy, and she's been in and out of hospital. I said, I'm so sorry to hear that. And then I said, I'm not approaching this with any anger, I said, or bad feeling. We're in the situation now, and I've got to look after the children's best interests and support them through this as well as you. And I said, You really need to tell the children, they're very confused. And he said, I hadn't picked up on any of the confusion. And I said, I know. I said, So please, can we can you tell them on Friday? And can you tell them when I'm there? Because they need to know that I know as well, and they need to know we all know, and they need to know that we're all okay, and that it's all going to be okay. And he said, Yeah, okay. So, how I feel about it is I just want to do anything to support the children in this situation. I know that my ex-husband did not plan this. I don't know if she did. I don't know, I don't know her. How do you know he didn't plan it? He told me actually on Tuesday, but I also know because he didn't want the children he's got, and he's quite open about that. He actually says that in front of them sometimes. He told me when he left me, although gossip knows right now, is it's because he used to be able to do what he wanted to do when he wanted to do it, and having another baby at his age, he's 45, would not have been part of the plan. Quite open about that on Tuesday. He said it wasn't planned. And I feel good luck to his new partner because he's a very hands-off father, so good luck to her. I feel like warning her, actually, uh, which is a bit crazy, and just telling her she needs to, yeah, keep him on a tight lead. He won't be doing any nights, he won't be doing any early mornings. Good luck. And I just want to support my children in it because I think they'll be excited, which will be a bit hard for me. I think that'll be hard, but sometimes I think a new life can help sort of make people realise what's important and hopefully bond people together and get rid of any. And I said to him, I'm happy for you, I'm happy to meet your new partner if you if she wants to meet me. Or I said, I think our six-year-old wants me to meet her. I said, I'm perfectly happy for you to tell her there's no bad feeling and this is all okay. I think that he's probably been hiding her and hiding the pregnancy and everything because he's embarrassed. Of what? Because he told me there was nobody else when he left, and I suspect there was, and he told me she wasn't pregnant in October, and she was, so he's lied. I feel I feel for her that it must be very, very tricky that she's not allowed to tell her boyfriend's children that she's pregnant. That must be really hard, and I don't know what's going through her head as to why how he's justified that.

Katie South 38:20

I wonder if he's telling her the same things he's telling you.

Elizabeth 38:26

I don't know if he's painting me out to be some sort of witch, and it and actually the the problem with this me looking her up on the LinkedIn thing is that painted me as a as a bit of a witch to begin with, and whether that rhetoric has stayed, I don't know.

Katie South 38:48

Yeah, I I don't know. I mean, I think if we've all looked up someone on the internet, whether it's your ex-boyfriend from when you were young or your partner's ex-wife, or you know, whatever. Everyone's looked someone up on the internet, and anyone who hasn't is talking shit, quite frankly. And absolutely looking someone up once on LinkedIn, I don't feel I don't see how anybody could see that as threatening. And I would have thought that as a mother herself or a human, she would have just been able to think, I'm not surprised she's a bit curious about who her kids have been away with for the yeah.

Elizabeth 39:22

Well, I don't know, I don't know what she's been told by him, though. I don't know. Did he say I told her? Did he tell her that he told her? Sorry, I don't know what he said, and also I think that that lawyer's letter I got was him protecting her, and I think she probably did have an issue with it.

Katie South 39:43

So, what did he say when you offered to meet her? He rolled his eyes, and you haven't heard anything else. You you haven't had any contact with her at all?

Elizabeth 39:55

None, none. She texts my children, she's got their numbers, but I've had no contact at all with her.

Katie South 40:05

And how do you feel about the relationship between her and your children?

Elizabeth 40:13

I don't feel threatened that she's suddenly going to become a mother to them. The thing I found the hardest is that she gets to spend time on holiday with my children that I've never had because my husband would never commit to family holidays. So she got to see my daughter ski for the first time. I wasn't there. So I I'm slightly envious, I guess jealous, of the time she gets to spend with them. That I never got the chance to with their father as well. And in that sort of environment, because he never did that with me, and that's hard, and it's and it's hard, yeah, because I have never seen this side of him, so it's it's quite hurtful that he can do it with another woman, but he couldn't do it with me. So it's very personal that then actually him leaving me is a very personal thing. It was actually me, he just did not want to be with me. He can do all this family stuff, but he just didn't want to do it with me, and that's that's what's quite hard. And then also the other thing I find quite difficult is I I think they're both they've both got slightly different values to me, and there's a lot of buying stuff for the children, and whenever they come back from being with them, there's a whole load of stuff that comes back to the house, and I just think, oh, please just stop, please just stop doing that, and or keep it all at your house. I don't need all this constant stuff cluttering up my house that's come from somebody else to try and it feels like it's trying to win my children's affections, and I I obviously don't say any of this to my children, but it just it does. I just think, oh, just please stop, please stop buying them stuff and trying to win them over. Just just be, just be, just be, just be. And uh and I think yeah, so I just worry slightly about differing values that they might have with with him and his new partner. But as I say, he's their father, and I've got to let him let him get on with it. Yeah, but I do think it would be better if we were just open about everything and everyone, I don't say we have to be happy families at all, but it would be nice if you know we could all sort of at least meet, I think. I think it would be positive.

Katie South 43:05

Yeah, that was what I was gonna say. Like this baby's coming in three months from now. What would you like the relationship or the dynamic to be between you, your ex-husband, and his partner?

Elizabeth 43:21

Open, I think, is what I'd say. My six-year-old's birthday is coming up. I actually think it would be quite nice if we could all celebrate that together.

Katie South 43:33

And is that something you've tried to discuss with him?

Elizabeth 43:37

The only thing I've said was that conversation on Tuesday this week where I said it would probably be quite nice for me to meet her, and he just rolled his eyes, and that's it. I haven't approached it from there. I don't feel I can be pushy about it.

Katie South 43:51

Yeah, it's one of those things, isn't it? I think um I actually believe, and there'll be a lot of stepmums who might roll their eyes roll their eyes at me for this, but I do actually believe if a mother or a father wants to meet the new partner of their ex, be that a male or a female, that's a reasonable ask. But there are a lot of people who don't believe that, and you know that that's fair.

Elizabeth 44:19

I would really like to be able to just get on with my ex-husband's new partner. I think that when my children are with her, she probably is doing a lot of the caring of them. And I think in time, as we I suspect my ex-husband will move in with her now, they're having a baby. So my children will, our children will be in their family home. And I suspect she'll end up because my ex-husband is useless at planning and organising, she'll end up organising a lot of their activities, and I suspect it will be much better for me to have a direct relationship with her where I can text her and say, My 13-year-old has got a football match on Sunday in so and so. Is that okay? Can I can we say yes on the app rather than my ex-husband? Because he never responds to me. So I think it will be her organizing stuff. So I think if we can even just have a, you know, I don't want my ex-husband back. Our marriage is done. I am not jealous, I am not angry, I am not bitter, I want everyone to be happy. And I have told the children, well, I I ended up having to tell them my six-year-old doesn't believe me, she keeps saying I'm lying, but I had to tell them that this new partner is Daddy's new girlfriend, and I had to tell them that, and I said, and isn't that good that daddy's happy? And that is how I phrased it. And mummy's happy because daddy's happy, and you're happy, everyone's happy, isn't it good that everyone's happy? So they know that that I'm okay with it, and they've got to know that because otherwise they'll worry, and I am okay with it. I just I wish that, and it's not her fault at all. I just wish my ex-husband hadn't introduced her in the way he's introduced her to my life or their lives, and I I've no idea what she knows about anything, and I don't know if because there have been some lies, he wants to keep us apart. I don't know if that's why. So I don't find things out, and I've hugely suspect that the baby is going to come earlier than I've been told it's due. Okay. Looking at the looking at the photographs of her on holiday. So I think he's even trying to lie about when the relationship started with her. So I think there's a lot of stuff he's probably got himself in a bit of a mess with. And actually, I feel like just saying, right, enough with all the nice now. This is where we are. Let's just get on with it. Let's let's meet each other, let's everyone know what's happening, and let's just be adults about all of this. That's how I feel.

Katie South 47:10

Yeah. And do you know what? I know there's going to be women listening going, like, oh, I wish Elizabeth was my partner's ex, or you know, because it is such a healthy attitude. And actually, when you were talking, then I was thinking, she may not realize that he bought you roses seven days before he left, you know, like there does seem like there's been some omissions of some significant truths there. So thank you so much for sharing really openly about how these things make you feel. Because I one of my aims when I started the podcast was to try and have some of the more difficult conversations, but also to try and quash that myth of like ex-wife and stepmom have to hate each other. You know, one of them's a bitch and the other one's an angel. Like it's not like that. And actually, a lot of the time, it's just two women trying to do their best in a really difficult situation. So I really appreciate your honesty. And I have to ask you if you've got time. You told me you've also started seeing someone with kids. So tell me about that.

Elizabeth 48:13

Yeah. So when my husband first left me in February last year, my older brother said to me, Just to have in your head, you need to go date, you need to go on a date in the summer. I thought he was completely insane. And then it got to the summer, and I thought, Oh, I want to go on a date. And so I spoke to one of my friends who'd been divorced for five years, and she'd been on a dating site called Bumble, where the woman uh has to approach the man first. So I went on this dating app. I was really struggling with sleep at that point, and I'd uh had the whole summer with the children, and they'd been quite tricky, and obviously they're very unsettled, wasn't sleeping, and in the middle of the night, I just joined this app, and then I think that was on a Tuesday night, swiped right on one man, had a date with him on the Friday, no, the Saturday, and then that was it. We've been seeing each other ever since. And he's got a 10-year-old and a 13-year-old, and now I'm entering into the realms of stepmum myself.

Katie South 49:19

And how's that been?

Elizabeth 49:22

I was going through finding out about my ex-husband's new partner in the October, so I knew exactly how it felt to be on the other side. So when we started talking about whether we meet each other's children, I said I'd like you to speak to your ex-partner first and see if she wants to meet me before I meet your children. And she didn't want to meet me, no, and I haven't met her. I have met his children, but we've played it, we haven't gone on holiday. We've we've done it slightly more gently, and we didn't do it until a month ago, and we actually told the children about each other first. I did call him my boyfriend. Actually, I think I said I started dating somebody because my six-year-old calls him my date. And we said, Do you want to meet them? And what do you want to do? My children said they wanted to meet him and his children on FaceTime. So we did a FaceTime, and they've also got a dog, so we met the dog, and it was mainly about the dog. And then and then between all of them, my three and his two, they arranged over that FaceTime for us all to go trampolining the next weekend. Nice, that's what we did, and then since then, we've only seen them probably once or twice in outside activities. So trampolining, went to Nando's once, you know, that kind of thing, just quite gently, gently introducing. And so, how I feel about it is I feel very strongly when I first met his daughter, she kept talking about her mum. And I let her talk about her mum, and I asked her questions about her mum in a very unthreatening way. I said, Oh, that sounds amazing, she sounds great, blah, blah, blah. And made it very clear that I'm not, you know, trying to tread on any toes. But I think I'm probably ridiculously super sensitive to it now because I know what it's felt like for me.

Katie South 51:27

Yeah, and it's it's interesting, isn't it? Because I think I was always hypersensitive about what it might feel to my husband's ex. Yeah. But you know, we're two totally different people, so she might have not had the same feelings as me at all. Exactly.

Elizabeth 51:45

Yeah, and she and she probably doesn't. And again, I haven't met her. I wouldn't mind meeting her if she wanted to meet me. I do not want to take on any parenting role in her children's lives. I mean, I guess that will change if we end up moving in with each other, and then I will have to have some parenting responsibility, but obviously it they're his children and her children. Um, I I haven't reached that yet. You'll have to fill me in on those bits in the future. But um, yeah, I don't I don't want her to feel that I'm a threat in any way, definitely.

Katie South 52:21

Yeah, and I think all the stepmums that I've spoken to are always so conscious that they really don't want to tread on on mum's toes, and it's different in different scenarios, you know. There are some step mums who are full-time stepmum, and mum, for whatever reason, doesn't see the children or sees them very infrequently or isn't alive, and that's kind of a different relationship. But you know, I think when there's a very present mother, all stepmums are happy to kind of do their role in their way, it's different.

Elizabeth 52:52

Yeah, um, absolutely, and also you know, very much check in with yeah, how the mum wants things to be. Like I'd never, you know, I feel like I'm a very reasonable person, and uh again, I don't know what what she's like. I haven't met her, so it might not work if we're very different, and I don't know, but I would really hope that like my my new partner said to me, or do you think you could ever see it that we'd all go out together like in a four with the new partners? And I said, Well, actually, I would I'd be happy to do that with my ex-husband and his new partner, and he said, 'Oh, I'm not sure about my ex. I was like, okay, but maybe the four of us rather than the six of us who ever met so many branches, aren't there?' I know, I know.

Katie South 53:39

The world is changing, and it's such a complex blend, which I'm not sure how I feel about that word, but of different families and different people and different holiday planning. And my God, the Excel that I've already had to do for this summer holiday is like killing me. Um, but look, Elizabeth, like I really appreciate your time today, and thank you so much for being really honest, especially about the stuff that's sometimes hard to talk about. And um, I'm sure there'll be a lot of women who are listening who have taken a lot from the conversation, so thank you.

Elizabeth 54:17

It's an absolute pleasure. Absolute pleasure.

Katie South 54:22

Oh, Elizabeth, if only all the exes could be like you. I am so grateful to Elizabeth for being courageous enough to share with us some of her feelings. I have long said that in stepfamily situations a high dose of empathy from everyone is important. And Elizabeth clearly has that in spades. It's such a fine balancing act, isn't it? We all want to make our stepkids feel part of the family, but we also don't want their mums to feel pushed out. The constant balancing act of stepmum life is not easy and it's not for the faint-hearted. But ladies, I got ya. If you're finding things tough and you want to do something positive to help yourself out, then there's three things you can do right now. One, come and join our community on the private Facebook group search stepmum space. Two, get yourself registered for our next round of workshops so when dates are released, you're first in the line, they're gonna fill up really quickly, and you do not want to miss out. You can get yourself registered by joining the wait list at stepmamspace.com. And finally, do take a look at the one-to-one transformative coaching options which I offer. My passion is transforming people's lives through coaching and taking you to a place you never thought you could get to. It's amazing what we can do. All of the details of my programmes are at www.stepmumspace.com, or you can contact me directly on the socials at stepmum space. And finally, if you've enjoyed the show, please do rate to review and subscribe as it helps other people find us. See you next time!