Stepmum Space

Episode 32: When Your Partner Undermines You, Fussy Eaters & Other Parenting Battles — with Sue Atkins

• Katie Harrison • Season 4 • Episode 8

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Support, tools & coaching for stepmums: https://stepmumspace.com

In this episode, Katie is joined by internationally recognised parenting expert Sue Atkins for a practical, grounded conversation about the challenges that come up in stepfamily life — especially when parenting styles clash.

Together they explore some of the most common issues stepmums face, including:

  • What to do when your partner undermines you
  • How to handle fussy eaters without constant arguments
  • Kids refusing to sleep in their own bed
  • Navigating inconsistent rules between homes
  • Surviving (and understanding!) grumpy teenagers
  • Feeling stuck between wanting to help… and not wanting to overstep

Sue answers listener questions with warmth, wisdom and her signature sense of humour, offering simple, realistic strategies you can start using right away.

This episode wraps up Season 4 — make sure you hit subscribe so you don’t miss the new season, or follow along on Instagram @stepmumspace or at https://stepmumspace.com
for tools, updates and support.

Keywords: stepmum feeling undermined, partner undermining parenting, step-parenting issues, fussy eaters advice, stepmum support, blended family parenting, inconsistent rules co-parenting, stepmum boundaries, stepmum podcast, Sue Atkins, stepfamily challenges, overwhelmed stepmum

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Katie South:

Hello, I'm Katie, and this is Stepmum Space, where each episode we talk candidly about the fairy tales and scary tales of Stepmum life. So whether you've been a stepmum for years, you're just starting out, or you want to understand the stepmum in your life a little bit better, this is the place for you. Now I really hope that you are all doing okay and managed to survive, or dare I say it, even enjoy Mother's Day last weekend. I was really, really pleased to see all the love for stepmums on social media, and it does feel like we are making some progress, so I hope the children or partner in your life made you feel appreciated. Thank you so much for all the love about the Mother's Day episode. I really appreciated it. It was a little bit of a different format, but I am so happy to get to represent a lot of stepmums out there. So thanks for everyone who's sent in their comments. I've also had some really lovely messages this week from lots of people who have just found Stepmum Space. If you are new to us, then welcome! You have found your tribe. So I've been busy behind the scenes giving the Stepmum Space website a little bit of a makeover. We have some incredible content which will be shared over the coming weeks. So do subscribe at StepmumSpace.com so you hear all the news first. I've also released some new workshop dates, you'll be pleased to hear, which you can find on the site. It is a really good investment in yourself, your well-being, and your happiness. So get yourself booked on, and I really look forward to meeting you and helping you create positive change in your stepmum life. Now, today is our last episode in season four, and I am delighted to welcome a special expert guest, the brilliant parenting expert Sue Atkins. Now, a few weeks back, you showed your parenting questions for me to put to Sue in this special episode. There's a lot of great tips in here for all types of parent, and I hope you enjoy it. Hello, Sue. Thanks for joining me today. Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for inviting me. So look, you've got so much experience, and I've got loads of questions that people have shared, um, wanting all your wisdom. But firstly, can you just share a bit about you and your background for those people who might not have come across you before? Sure, yes.

Sue Atkins:

Well, I was a deputy head and class teacher for about 22 years, and then my dad died, quickly followed by my mum within the same year, and it was a major life change for me. You start to sort of analyse your own life. Where are you going? What do you want to do next? Life is short. And I was walking my dogs, I've got three dogs walking across the surrey fields here in the mud, and I thought, what did my parents give me? I thought they gave me self-esteem, hopefully, not an arrogance, but you know, have a go at anything and work hard and try and stick with things. And I thought, yeah, well, that's so interesting. And that self-esteem, I've been this teacher working with children in all of that arena. Now I need to go back to where it actually starts, which I think is from the parents, because you know, parents are the ones that nurture self-esteem and all of those things in children. So from that, then I suddenly got invited to write my first book called Raising Happy Children for Dummies, one in the famous black and yellow series that led on to BBC Radio, that led onto my TV this morning, sitting on the sofa that led on to Disney, asking questions, uh, you know, parenting all around sofas on Disney, also then doing videos for Disney and things like that, and loads of radio work and TV work too. But my books and my passion are around raising happy, confident, resilient children, whatever they are, whatever age they come from, whatever their backgrounds and whatever their circumstances. And then that led me when I went through divorce actually to write the divorce journal for kids, which is my um award-winning book for children going through separation, divorce, co-parenting. So they've got a place, and it's a positive place, to uh express themselves, to understand the process for themselves, to look at life in different ways, and to have those big conversations, I think, with younger people so that they feel that they are being listened to and heard. Because I'm just very passionate around helping you be the best you can be as the parent.

Katie South:

If you kind of can crack that or at least give it your best shot, then it's so important for your own well-being and your own self-esteem. And so many of the women who I know will be listening today, they want to do all the right things, but because of circumstances or because of another home or another parent elsewhere, it can be really tricky. So I'm really interested to see like how you've seen sort of family structures change over the course of your career, first as a head, and then in in your more recent years.

Sue Atkins:

That's a really interesting question, isn't it? Parents have always worried about their children and their parenting. I think ever since time began, you want the best for your kids, whether that was way back in the 50s or even way back, you know, in the Victorian times, or even further back since then. So um it's changed a bit because of the roles of different, you know, parents and because perhaps of um divorce separation and breakup and that kind of stuff, perhaps is now, thank goodness, more accepted in the sense of it's not stigmatized or taboo, where it was many, many years ago. And people do not enter into these situations lightly. When I I specialise in helping families through divorce because people tend to stay much longer than they perhaps should, because they want the best for their kids and they're sort of worried that it will damage them. And I always say it's not the divorce or the separation that damages kids, it's the level of conflict that they experience. And every parent is doing their best, and you need to cut yourself some slack. And I think one of the key messages I give to parents and single parents and co-parents and stepfamilies and all the rest of it is look after your own mental health, which means getting a bit of me time, because that's not selfish, that's self-care. So you come back in more energized with a sort of different perspective, feeling better, a bit more patient, a bit more kind of relaxed, so that you can, you know, off you go again. Because it's really tiring and exhausting raising children, isn't it?

Katie South:

Yeah, absolutely. And it's really interesting because I do feel like as so I'm a biological mum and a stepmum, and I feel like as a biological mum, society really gives you that permission and that encouragement to kind of fasten your own mask and take care of yourself and take time out. But what a lot of the stepmums I work with kind of play back to me is actually if they try and do that, they get accused often by their partner, but sometimes by other people of, oh, you don't love the kids enough, you know, you knew I had kids, and actually they just need that permission to say it's not that I don't like them, it's just I need a bit of a break. So that's advice you would give to stepparents as well, I guess.

Sue Atkins:

Oh, absolutely, because it's even harder in some ways, isn't it? Because they go, Well, you're not my mum, you can't tell me what to do, and all of that business. And so you do need to sing from the same song sheet. And children are difficult and challenging. And if you've got stepchildren, there's all sorts of issues going on. You don't know, you know, how they feel about the breakup, how long ago it was, they you don't know what they're hearing from the other parent when they come back to you. So it's it's complicated, and so you need to have some time out sometimes just to keep your own life going, keep your own sanity, keep your own hobbies, your interests, and then you come back into you know parenting together and you're more relaxed and you have that bigger picture. So I give you permission, free from guilt, actually, ladies and gentlemen.

Katie South:

Yeah, and actually, really so important, isn't it, to be able to do that. What do you think, kind of in general, of the support that's available to step mums out there? And I say step mums because obviously, whilst step-parenting is challenging for anybody, we know that stepmums do suffer more mental health issues, anxiety, depression than stepfathers, and society is generally not as kind to stepmothers as it is to stepfathers.

Sue Atkins:

It's interesting turn of phrase as well, isn't it? Step mums as opposed to blended families and all of that stuff, because I do quite a bit of work in America, uh, around the the words we give it to. Yeah. And I I think it's important that, you know, step families or blended families, um, they, you know, they need to be cut some slack. And I don't know where they get their support from, really. Uh, I think it's very important that, you know, the podcasts that you do, people that blog and talk about it, it's quite complicated in many ways. So you do need support, like in everything with raising children. It's not easy sometimes. Sometimes it's it's a doddle and it's fantastic and everything works very nicely, but then you'll always get a flare up in some aspect of it.

Katie South:

Yeah, and I think that coaching aspect is so important just to almost create where you want to get to rather than not doing anything, burying your head, and then ending up in kind of counselling three years down the road. You know, speaking from experience, I should have looked a lot earlier for some external support before waiting until I was in a really, really tricky place. And I coach stepmums specifically, and they do tend to find actually having the space to work through what's going on with them in that sort of safe, non-judgmental space, but actually crafting where they want to get to rather than letting everything just happen to them is such a powerful thing.

Sue Atkins:

It's mindful, isn't it? And being what I call self-aware and awareness parenting, and that's whether you're a stepmother or you know, just parenting in general, we tend to not notice until it's all too late. What do you think? I'm gonna ask you a question there. What would you have done differently? What was the when did you start to notice it?

Katie South:

What did you overlook? Good question. So I definitely going into it was naive. Um, you know, I I knew there would be bumps on the road. I was already a a mum and I'd found that pretty straightforward. So I thought because I loved kids and I got on with kids really well, I just thought it would be okay. Um and, you know, and it wasn't. And I think I held myself responsible for it not being okay in the beginning. And when I look back, I think actually, there are so many other things I had zero control over or zero influence over that made it difficult. But I was trying to fix everything. So then, of course, when I couldn't fix anything everything, I was feeling like a failure, and I was feeling like so it's a bit like therapy, this for me, it's feeling so sort of rejected that it became really hard. So I think I would always say, as a piece of advice to people, like, don't make yourself responsible for fixing the family, solving the problems. Actually, it it's the biological parents who need to do that bit. Biological mum has to give the kids permission. But isn't it but isn't it together?

Sue Atkins:

A bit of everything, it's not just one or the other's responsibility. It could be something that you come together to talk about. Well, I wonder you thought it was your responsibility to fix it. I find that fascinating. Yes, it's not just you, is it? I mean, we want to do our best, and you really want to gel and blend and get on together with everyone. But I wondered why you took that on to feel responsible.

Katie South:

I think part of it's gender bias, um and um and part of it's that, and then a lot of the research will show that because there's such a negative myth around stepmothers in particular, that you're so intent on dispelling that myth that you go that you go too far. So if if my you know this morning my two little ones were really quite annoying getting ready for school, and I found found myself feeling really annoyed with them, but I didn't feel guilty about it because I was like, well, they are being annoying. I've asked them to put their shoes on four times and they haven't. But if if I was to ever have any sort of less positive emotion around my stepchildren, I feel really guilty even talking about it now. I would I would really beat myself up for that. Where actually it was it's kind of normal because all children do things that are a bit annoying sometimes. And a lot of the step mums I speak to will be like, oh, right, so it's okay if I don't really like them every second, and it's okay if they annoy me because they feel so guilty about that. So I think there's a lot wrapped up in there, and and also the kind of lack of clarity about what your role is. So it that comes up a lot for women, that ambiguity around, you know, if I do too much, then it's like stay in your lane, they've already got a mother, but if I don't do enough, it's like, oh, you don't care about them.

Sue Atkins:

Yeah, is it that thing about trying to be a perfect parent? And of course, because you come to a new relationship, you want to be even better than the other mother almost. Is that it?

Katie South:

Yeah, I don't know. I never felt like I wanted to be better than the other mother or the the mother. I I definitely I definitely wanted her to feel like I was doing a good job by her kids, actually. Yeah, yeah, and that's fair enough, isn't it?

Sue Atkins:

And then I suppose you took it to be a perfectionist, you probably took it to the other way and go the other extreme. But you know, like you say, giving people permission to say, do you know what? There were little buggers this morning. And that would be true whether they were your own children or your neighbours or your stepkids.

Katie South:

Yeah, and then you get to the point, of course, as I did, because that is totally unsustainable to be, you know, Mary Poppins the whole time, that you just have a meltdown or it just goes, you know, it just goes completely wrong. And, you know, God, I would love to have my time again and do it differently, wouldn't we all? But what I have learned, I just am so passionate about sharing with other people because we know that there isn't that honest conversation about step parenting out there. That you know, there's there's a little bit, but it's either kind of negative from the media or it's very martyrdom.

Sue Atkins:

And and that's where most of my work with real families is in the middle, not out here on the extremes of it. And of course, when things go wrong, it builds and it builds like shaking up a can of coke and then it goes mad. And then you've got to pick up all the pieces and wipe the floor because it's gone everywhere. So it is about noticing your triggers, and it's not weakness to ask for help or to discuss it, but you've got to pick your moments, I think, with your partner to talk about it. You know, don't do it when you're rushing out of the door and you're trying to get to work or something. And again, it's how you say it because then it can be very accusatory, and you've got to be able to sort of get that kind of conversation going that we're in this together. What can we do? What do you think? All of that body language, tone of voice, and those words that we use because we are you are in it together to raise the kids, you know, and they are difficult, challenging, as well as marvelous and exciting to be with them and all the rest of it.

Katie South:

So it's it's a whole jumble, isn't it, raising children? Completely. I just want to pick up on something you said then that was really interesting, which is about kind of noticing triggers. I asked our listeners for some questions and obviously been inundated, so I'm not sure we'll get through all of them, but um, but we'll give it a go. Um, somebody did actually write to me saying there is a situation, this is around meal times, but I know from sort of speaking to other women that there are there are lots, but situation around meal times where her stepkids are, in in this lady's words, really fussy eaters, so she'll cook a meal and they will sort of refuse it, and her husband will give in and just kind of make them something else, which really irritates. Annoys her.

unknown:

Yeah.

Katie South:

They've had the conversation, and he's saying, the husband's saying, Well, I'm not expecting you to do it, so I don't know why you're getting so annoyed about it. But she finds it really, really triggering, and it always erupts into her feeling pissed off with her husband and not wanting to be around them. Like, have you got because she's being undermined, isn't she?

Sue Atkins:

Yeah, and giving in because he feels guilty is not the answer either. I write an awful lot around fussy eaters and where that comes from and how you can get rid of it. You add in the mixture of guilt, perhaps, or the different approaches, because mums and dads sometimes come to parenting, not singing from the same song sheet. And then, of course, you can understand the relationship. Then she gets really, I can really understand her getting really cross with that because that's not her core value. Also, you're making a rod for your own back because in the end, you'll have to cook four or five different meals every night for different different members of the family. Yep. Good luck with that.

Katie South:

So when like she's noticing that in that moment and feeling like and you can almost feel that kind of rage coming up inside you. Like, how do you stop to use your analogy, which I love, the the kind of can of coke from spilling over? How do you stop that?

Sue Atkins:

Well, I use an analogy about um on your I've got one here, my remote control for my telly, and I suggest that you press your pause button, your imaginary pause button on your remote control, take a physical step back, because all of that detaches you for a split second while you're actually thinking, now what am I gonna say here? What am I going to do? What needs to happen? And you deal with it in that moment. But then I would also put in my head, right? I'm not gonna have a row here, we're not gonna fuss about this now. But this is quite a fundamental thing of you undermining my parenting. Don't say it out loud in your head to revisit that when the kids are in bed or you're out, you know, in a restaurant having a coffee or something, talking about families and life and all of that, and saying, look, when you do that, the mess, what you know, or even just ask the question. Here's what I ask parents, what messages are the children getting from this? Because suddenly you go, Oh, well, I'm a pushover, or whatever it is. So then you go, okay, now what can we do differently? And what do we need to think about when we've got the kids fussy eating and all the rest of it? You know, maybe are we piling up the food too high, they overwhelmed with different flavors, or they find it's too much, or you know, etc. Or are we tense, both of us now, around mealtimes? Because that can damage all sorts of things if you're tense all the time around mealtimes.

Katie South:

Yeah, and I think I love what you're saying then about kind of taking a physical step back. We talked with a mindset coach in a previous episode about actually emotions being kind of that energy in motion and doing it almost like a physical action to take yourself away, three deep breaths, recenter yourself and press your pause button. Yeah, I love that. And then kind of on the topic of tension. So that's a really interesting one that a lot of women will play back to me that they feel tense in their home because they feel like they're kind of constantly being watched, constantly being judged. And I hear a lot of stories about, you know, I can't be myself because whatever I say gets reported back to the other home. And we're not talking about, you know, awful things, we're talking about I don't know, they might have said shit or they might have watched something on TV or they might have had a political view that was different to mums, who knows? But how how do you how do you handle that feeling of like feeling like you really can't be yourself in your own home?

Sue Atkins:

That's a very big one, isn't it? Because basically what you're saying about all the different things that we're talking about, actually, it's about communication and it's about communicating with your partner, not even the kids on some of this stuff. These are quite big things, and you should you should feel safe, relaxed, happy to be your true self. Is it because you want to be a perfect parent or a perfect step parent, or is there pressure coming from your partner, or is it actually just coming from you? Because sometimes when I've said things to my husband about my perception about something that happened, he'll go, well, that wasn't, I didn't see it like that at all. I didn't mean it like that at all. Um, so you do need to talk about it though, because to me that sounds really sad that you would be so tense in your own home around, you know, whether you whether you say shit or whether you say we we stayed up, you know, half an hour later than we should have done. That shouldn't be, you shouldn't be on eggshells, is what I'm saying.

Katie South:

And eggshells is the word I often I often get women saying, like, you know, I feel like I'm treading on eggshells in my own home. And it's interesting when you talk about perception because so often, and I know I've done it in the past, and the more I've learned, the more I've realized like we just attach so many meanings to things that are not there. Yeah, that may not be true. Yeah. I was chatting with a woman the other day, and she was sort of saying, you know, well, my step my stepson comes in and he just always looks so like grumpy to be in our house, and he's always so pissed off to be in our house, and we we work through it all, and obviously, then she kind of came to the conclusion that actually maybe he's tired, or his, you know, hungry teenage boys, teenage girls, everyone, or his football team aren't doing very well, or someone at school who he fancies doesn't fancy him back, all these other things. But I think because these women are so desperate to create a happy home and for the children to be happy there, the second they're not, it's like, what have I done? They hate me, you know, all those things. So I'd say, like for anyone listening, like when you catch yourself creating a story about a situation, just like pause, press your pressure sue pause button, step back, step back and interrogate that thought. Are they looking pissed off because they're pissed off to be in your house? Or is there something else going on? Or are they actually not even pissed off at all? They're just resting their face.

Sue Atkins:

Yeah, you know, I think absolutely, isn't that interesting? Because it's complicated, isn't it? And they might be just too, you know, through the teenage grunt and groan kind of stages as well. But I think you're right. The idea of what am I attaching to this because I'm trying to be a perfect parent, when actually, you know, this could be a multitude of things. So the other thing is to sometimes relax around it, let them talk in their own time sometimes. I often say when you pick up kids from school, whatever their age, don't start with how was your day. They're probably hungry because they ate at 12 and it's now nearly four o'clock. Give them a banana or a sandwich or something, and back off. Just smile and hug them, be off your mobile phone, please, uh, and just make them feel, you know, welcome and it's nice to see you. The teenager or the seven-year-old coming home, um, give them that space sometimes and don't think it's all about you all the time. Sometimes it might be, you've got to be aware of yourself, but it's not always all about you.

Katie South:

And that's so true because I, you know, I look at my nearly teenage son, and I know that he gets home from school, he needs to sit on the sofa, have a little snack, something to drink, and play a little football game just to unwind. And I I usually go, How are you? And then I'll say, Do you need a bit of downtime or do you fancy a chat? And he'll say, just need a bit of downtime. But it's funny because that doesn't offend me at all. Yes. But I know for a lot of step-mums, they would feel like, oh, they don't like me. So it's it's like that reminder that they need space and that it's not about how they feel about you.

Sue Atkins:

I think that's yeah, that's I think that's core, isn't it? Suddenly, from what we've been discussing, it's actually not all about you, it's about life. And so you need to kind of get that back in balance. Sometimes it might be about you, but it's not always about you. And to give kids that time to be themselves and just sometimes smile at them and say it's nice to see you. That's it. End of. And then they want to get off and do whatever they want to do, that's natural as well. And you know, using that time away from each other and give them a bit of space to unwind is absolutely fine, isn't it? And then come back together a bit later if you want to and chat. But like you said, you don't take offense and you sort of ask the question do you want to chat or do you want to be on your own or you want to do, you know, chill out? But they'll tell you. But I definitely think a lot of hunger is part of some of that stuff.

Katie South:

Do you know it's funny because he he'll sit and he'll play his football game for you know 10-15 minutes, and then he'll come up and he'll sit down and we'll sit at the table and he'll have his dinner and we'll chat, and then it's lovely, and we have that interaction and we have that conversation. And I think it's it is harder for stepparents because obviously there's a myriad, some people have their stepkids all the time, some people only see them in the holidays and everything in between, but quite often you don't know your stepchild possibly as well as you do your biological child.

Sue Atkins:

So that's an interesting thing because that's where I come in when I'm talking to parents like that as well, is right, so create new interests or hobbies or moments. You know, do you go for hot chocolate when you when you're taking your other child swimming and you have that time with them? You don't have to do anything amazing, like I used to do it with my own son, actually, driving up to football. Sometimes we talk deep and meaningful, sometimes we talk about Chelsea because that was our team, sometimes we listen to the radio. I don't think I can talk to you anymore.

Katie South:

We like Tottenham in our house. How are we gonna get past this?

Sue Atkins:

Thank God it wasn't Arsenal. Oh no, but there we are, but you know, create those moments for connection and with your stepdot, don't force it. So many people force it. You know, if you happen to be interested in gardening or I don't know, whatever it is, I'm making it up, bring them on out, depending on their age, of course, but show an interest in what they're interested in. If you're if you've got a teenager that's interested in a certain game or app or something, sit and ask them, not without being desperate, it's all about your tone. But it's like, why do you like that game? Can you show me how to do it? What are you doing? Tell me why, tell me about that music. Why do you like that music? So you form your own connection, you can't force it, but you can let it slow burning casserole is the way I like to describe all of this. Don't blend it and it's instantly marvellous. You know, sometimes kids take time to warm up. They've had some difficult times in the past with relationships with their parents and they've seen arguments or something. So take your time, have the longer, bigger picture on it, and then be interested. Perhaps they like doing art and craft and you go off up to London or somewhere wherever you live and go to an exhibition. I don't know. But find those moments of connection, nurture them, water them like you do a plant. You know, don't water the weeds, water the plant so that you blossom and bloom and grow together over time. Slow the whole process down a bit.

Katie South:

I love that. And I mean, you've just shared one of the reasons why I don't connect with the word blended because I feel it's too like final, it's too perfect, it's an end state. Whereas I really love the idea of like, don't water the weeds, water the flowers, and just kind of let them grow in their own time. I think that's just so, so important. So, look, I've got a few questions which came in, which I wondered if I could ask you. So, regarding teenagers, there's a question around kind of, and you touched on mobile phones earlier, but how do you give teenagers, young teenagers, sort of 13, 14, 15, privacy, but also sort of keep an eye on what they're up to online?

Sue Atkins:

Well, it's balance, not banning. It's again back to communication, talking and teaching, but not sledgehammering and being all kind of you know, top down on it. Uh, it is guiding them around the dangers, talking about them because they need to know about some of this stuff. I had a client come to see me, I knew the child actually from years ago, and he'd gone by accident onto a porn site or something, and it terrified him and frightened him. He felt very naughty and he felt guilty and he didn't understand it, and all the rest of it. So, we do need to talk and teach children about some of it. Now, of course, they won't see that and they don't want to, but you can talk to teenagers also about body image and about bullying and anorexia and all these big topics um that come up. And I think if you're relaxed around it and open to talking about these things, then you build the relationship again around that. Um, you know, technology is a big problem for some people. Um, but I think really you've got to guide them and you can't just put your head in the sand. I mean, the next one up now is artificial intelligence and all of that side of things. But yeah, phones, they're uh you know, technology generally, it's marvelous, but it needs boundaries around it, just like you would put boundaries around going to the park. You put them around your technology and hold your ground on that. And kids are motivated towards something or away from something, but it's the way you set it up, the way you talk about it, they won't like you. You are there to be their parent, not their friend. Now that might be complicated if you're a step parent, because you say, Oh my god, they don't like me. Well, you know, you're not supposed to be liked actually around some important stuff. You are there to talk and teach them and guide them and make sure they grow up safe, happy, confident adults.

Katie South:

Yeah, that's so true. And we hear a lot of stories where actually the children are possibly like mum's friends. So it's a really common dynamic that you see mum's on her own, mum and child become best friend, child goes to dad and stepmums who have boundaries and they hate them. So, how would you advise that a dad and a stepmum navigate that in that instance? I had somebody actually specifically say to me, the teenagers' stepchildren, my teenage stepchildren think that any sort of discipline or boundaries is mental abuse and tell us that we're mentally abusing them.

Sue Atkins:

Well, they've got too many rights now in that sense, don't quote me. But you know what I mean? They're gonna throw that around to wind you up and to press your buttons. But your job, no matter, you know, is to actually help raise. Them keep them safe, teach them how to self-regulate, they will use it, and you know, depending on the stages that they're going through, their ages or their anger, they will throw it back at you. But your job is not to be their friend, and the other thing you can never change is the other person. So you can't change um their mum who's saying all sorts of things or you know, over kind of sharing with them. You can't really change that because if you do, then you're going to start a row over there. So all you can do is stay in your own grounded place, knowing that you are doing your best, you've thought about it, and your intention is good, and don't flag off or criticize the other person because that really doesn't help anybody. It just sets up more confrontation. The child feels stuck in the middle and doesn't quite know what to do. So, yeah, I think I hope that answers that question really.

Katie South:

Yeah, I think really, really good advice. I've got another one, which is about a younger child, actually. So, how do you deal with a stepchild who can't play on their own? So, this lady in particular, she's got at weekends, she sort of loses her husband because he plays with the children all the time. And you know, she's like, I don't, I don't mind him playing with his children, but but yeah, how do you how do you teach a child or how do you deal with a child who can't play on their own?

Sue Atkins:

Well, again, it's over time. What you do is often I there's a technique on my blog actually for a minute, and you sit down on the carpet and you put in your head, you're playing with your child for a minute. So you get them started, or you get them kind of some kids can't start the game or they don't quite know the game and they need a bit of sort of support, and then you you sort of gradually get up and go and peel the potatoes or cut the grass or whatever you've got to do, but you've started them off, and that's quite a good technique sometimes, and then realize that they may only play for a little bit on their own for a while, um, you know, and then they'll come looking for for that. But you build it up incrementally, it's sort of three or four minutes, and it may be five. But also the other question I would be thinking about with that is what's going on underneath? Are they actually insecure? Do they need reassurance? Do they want your time and attention? Are you always busy? Are you always on your phone? Because that might be that as well, not knowing the exact example of that. There are a couple of ways of doing it. Yes, build up a child's uh ability to play alone for a little while and get involved with something, but also then look underneath if they're constantly looking to you to play with them all the time. And can I just say I remember this is a true story? My son and um dad were they were at football, he was playing away somewhere, and dad took him. I was at home with Molly, and I said, Should we play Ludo? So we had a game of it's not much fun, actually, too, if you're playing Ludo, to be absolutely fair, even though it's like a boring game, though, isn't it? Well, I used to love it when I played with my mum and dad, but that was three of us. So anyway, we played it, and then you know, then we she said, Let's play again. I said, Oh, okay. And by the third time, I should we play again? I thought, God, no, it's so boring. And I, you know, I said, look, we've had a great time, we've played that. I've got to go and, you know, as I say, I don't know, feed the dog or something, you know, very boring. Uh, and that was enough. Children will always want more. So whether you play quick cricket in the garden like we did for hours, sometimes on end, they will always say, just one more game.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Sue Atkins:

And you have to also be aware that yes, you will give them your time, because I always say children spell love, T-I-M-E, but also there is a boundary around how long you want to actually play in a tent or play Monopoly or something. So find everything's about balance. So find a balance that fits them. And then don't just go, well, I'm so bored, I've got to go, because that will damage their self-esteem. You then, you know, go off and say, I've got to do something else, like empty the bin or something, it's not terribly interesting. But I hope that helps answering that one as well.

Katie South:

Yeah, I think kind of getting them started and showing them is a is a really good way to think about it. So another one, I'm sure you've had lots of experience in this in your career. So lying. So this lady's saying, My stepson, who's six years old, has taken to lying about everything in capitals and bold, and it's driving us nuts.

Sue Atkins:

Right. Well, I've written about why kids lie, so go and have a look at Sue Atkin's lying. Um, it's it's an interesting one. Sometimes it's because they you have high expectations of them and they don't want to let you down, so they'll lie about their achievement or what they've done or what they've done today, or all of that. But also, there's that thing about you know, there's ice cream or something all over the floor, and they go, Who's that? Did you do that? No, I didn't. There's videos, aren't there, on YouTube? No, I didn't do that. He did it, and there was nobody else there, you know. And oh no, it's the dog. And you what's all that? They don't want to get into trouble. Sometimes it's a little bit of that, you know, that they sort of lie about. Also, someone said to me about make-believe friend, you know, is that lying? Because they're talking about this make-believe friend all the time that's playing with them, doing stuff with them. That's a phase as well, and there's nothing wrong with that, that's just an active imagination. But you know, again, I don't know all the circumstances, but you you do the person that's asked the question, just pause to ponder when you're washing up or driving in your car. What's underneath this? What's causing this? Is it something we are created or we've created around it, or is it just a phase, or is the child seeking attention from you? You know, you've been busy or stressed or upset or something. So look at the core reason, always try and get to the bottom, the root of what's the cause, and you'll find it if you give yourself just a bit of time to think about it, and then you can address it.

Katie South:

Yeah, really good. Thank you. Um we've talked a little bit about boundaries, everybody's favourite word at the moment. How do you set those household rules without it feeling like rules for kids? Or is it okay if it feels like rules?

Sue Atkins:

Well, you've got to have some rules. Society's got rules, workplace has got rules. One of the key places I start when I'm coaching one-to-one with parents is get a piece of paper, fold it in half, on one side write what is acceptable, and on the other side write what isn't acceptable. And then you get your partner to do the same thing. Then you have a cup of coffee or a glass of wine and you chat about them. And usually you find that you are singing from the same song. She they might be in different order, but there are some basics that you you know, don't hit, don't punch, don't kick, uh, don't be rude, um, all of that stuff. And then there are other ones about well, what is acceptable. And also what we tend to do is notice when kids get things wrong. For this week only, if nothing else, if you listen to this podcast, focus on what your kids get right and tell them, because that is just they blossom when you do that, they bloom. And actually, if they could overhear you talking to granny or somebody else on the phone about how marvelous they are, you know, they're so kind, they work so hard on their homework, they tidied up their toys, I don't know, whatever it might be. My goodness, you watch the child's self-esteem grow. And because kids want to please you intrinsically, they want you to like them, they want you to love them just like you want to love them. And so look for the good in them and praise them and encourage them. Because often a discouraged child uh gets sort of you know naughty in that in that sense of a word, um, because they feel discouraged. So encourage them. And I think that will help with some of those things.

Katie South:

Yeah, and I'm actually going to pick your brain on a bit of advice for something, something I'm going through with my six-year-old at the moment, in that I'm a big fan of giving praise and all of that stuff. And he has so many beautiful qualities and will often come home with a little note saying how kind he's been or how he's, you know, just a lovely, lovely, lovely little boy. So he gets a lot of praise from everybody around him. However, when he's doing something that's not so good, and it's not terrible stuff, it was, you know, this morning it was just dancing. He wanted to dance and he didn't want to put his school uniform on. And I'm looking at this kid with all this joy dancing, thinking, what a wonderful feeling to have to be dancing on a Thursday morning before school, but also looking at my watch, thinking, well, shit, I need to get him out the door or we're gonna be late. So I, you know, politely come, oh wonderful dancing. Come on, let's dance your way into your school uniform. And obviously he doesn't, and it and then I kind of go, right, come on, darling, we really need to get ready. And then I have to sort of get a bit firmer. And then he gets really upset and says to me, I just feel like you think I'm so naughty. And then, of course, I feel like the worst parent in the world, and I don't, you can't be positive about them all the time, right?

Sue Atkins:

No, of course not, it's not realistic, is it? Come on. So the other thing I would be saying, because I always think, listen to what they say to you. Most parents don't really hear, because I always go, Well, what's underneath that then? So then you don't have to beat yourself up. This is awareness parenting. You want to be a little bit better than you were last week, that's all. So you go, now I wonder why he thinks that. So you actually maybe you're gonna be late, I don't know if it's the right time, or you come back later when the iron is cold, and you just go, or when you're cuddling up reading a story or something at bedtime, say, Well, you know, what do you mean about that that I'm always on to you and that you know I'm a naughty or bad or whatever it is? Because he'll tell you, oh, you know, you're and and so then just go, am I a little bit like that without you know over egging it and oh, don't need therapy, I'm not a bad parent like Cinderella's stepmother, you know, but just maybe think about it because a child from their perspective is telling you sometimes what they're feeling, and they can't express it sophisticatedly, uh, but they'll say it in that sort of tone or that sort of way. So, you know, and it you know, you do have to get dressed now and go to school, and you don't have to be horrible about that, but there are realities and restrictions around life generally. So find that balance. Does that help with that question?

Katie South:

Yeah, that's super, thank you. And I will I'll report back on how that goes. So there's another one that's come in about um younger children, in this case, four, in the bed at night, in in the parents' bed at night. Um, and this lady was sort of saying, actually, I feel A, irritated because it wakes us up and then we get a bad night's sleep, but also I I feel uncomfortable because it's not my child and I don't feel comfortable being in a bed with them. So obviously, the the primary issue is like, how do you stop the kids coming in your bed at night?

Sue Atkins:

Oh god, if I had a pound for every time people ask me that, I'd have a pair of demi-shoe sandals or something. Um, it's very common. You know, some parents like it, some parents don't. Sometimes it's convenient because they're going through a phase, you think, oh my god, we've all got to get some kit because we haven't had sleep for three nights. Um, kids prefer it in cultures uh away from the UK. That's perfectly normal to co-sleep with kids right up, you know, till eight and stuff like that. Cultures are different, it's all about what feels comfortable for you. Talk to your partner about that and about the idea that you feel a bit uncomfortable because it's not your child, perhaps, or it's a boy and a you know, and all the rest of it. I don't know. It's all about communication about that. And then when you've decided between you, because it's just between you and your family, what you want to do about it, then you, you know, you let your child know about that. You say, well, you know, you're four now, or you're seven, or whatever. We want you to sleep in your own bed and stay there for the night. And then you can do something called. I've got this thing called the that was easy peasy lemon squeezy button you can buy on my website. So when they do stay in their bed all night in the morning, they come in and they press this button and they love it and they laugh and they think it's so funny because you've recorded that was easy peasy lemon squeezy. And I don't know why, but it's basically based on positive psychology around rewarding what you do want to see more of and see and be firm, fair, consistent. And let's face it, they don't always stay in their bed the first night that you do it because they're testing you out. Another one to look up on my website is the sleep fairies, and it will come up with a technique where you reward the behaviour you do want to see. And yes, it is bribery. You put a little present underneath from the sleep fairy if they've stayed in their bed all night. So a little pack of crayons or whatever it is you want to put. And yeah, you do that for about probably two weeks because to change a be a real behaviour does take a bit of time. But if that's important to you so that you get a proper night's sleep and that, you know, they're not thrashing around throwing the duvet everywhere. Um, that is quite a popular technique. And then she has to go and visit other children. You know, she came to Red Hill when my kids were little, but she had to go off to Clapham to sort some other children out, and so she gently goes away. You know what I mean? Or he goes away, whichever fairy you want. So that's another technique. But yes, if it's important to you that you don't want that to happen, then create it so it doesn't without damaging everybody's self-esteem.

Katie South:

Yeah, I think I love that the sleep fairy. They might have to come and visit my house as well, actually. Okay, so one of the situations that we see quite a lot when families come together is um different groups of siblings from different biological parents. So I've got a question around how do you manage it when two groups of biological siblings kind of gang up on each other?

Sue Atkins:

Well, respect is the key energy of any good family. You know, it lubricates the whole sort of system of relationships, I think, respect. And you've got to create that atmosphere of respect, the way you respect your partner, the way you respect old people, the way you respect siblings, you know, the way you respect your children or your stepchildren, but create an atmosphere of respect and then talk and teach your children about what that looks like. Also talk about, I also write and talk about the we team, as in WE, we, the Atkins family team. How can we work together as a team now? And if you're a step family, how do we work together as this new team with our new traditions, with our new ways of doing it, with respect for each other, respecting our similarities, respecting our differences, just and celebrating each other? How do we do that? And that can be in very small ways on a Friday or something. Come together with a meal and celebrate what went well this week and talk about it. And you know, the more you talk about your successes and we are this team, the more you get that feeling of togetherness.

Katie South:

Yeah, I love that. We did something once in our family, and we were initially my husband brought two girls to the marriage, and I bought a son, and we then had two more. So with the three, when we just had the three older ones, we did a thing where we wrote each wrote down something that we liked about everybody around the table on a little post-it and put it in a jar, and then we passed it round and everybody would read it. So they like my son would pick one out and be like, This is too ex person. You know, I love the way that you're always thinking about other people, or you know, it's just a nice thing.

Sue Atkins:

What a nice thing to do, isn't it? I mean, I've done that even in classrooms actually when we passed it round on a PSHE lesson. Uh, and you just watch that person blossom. You didn't know you felt like that. And that's such a positive, lovely thing to do, and quite simple, just takes a bit of thinking about. That's all.

Katie South:

There'll be women listening, I know, who'll be thinking, I can't think of anything nice to say. I think it really helps you go, there's something good in everybody. Like, actually, what is there?

Sue Atkins:

Well, I did this, I do it with parents that I work with now called I Am Special Because. And it's so powerful when people come and work with me. And we were sitting around this table. I can see the family, and it was, you know, they the teenager son was having trouble. He was angry with you know the dad and all of that, and he was coming at it a bit heavy-handed and things. So, you know, they had to they had to face each other and say, Um, you know, you are special because, and it was a bit awkward to start with because you, oh god, you know, and then to hear the father say why the son was special, and it came from such a wonderful place that no one kind of knew, I kind of got tearful because it was so powerful. And the son, you could see him thinking, Oh god, I didn't know he thought that about me. And then, as we went round the table with the mum and the dad and the sister and all that, and then the son had to say to the dad, um, this was particularly what we were working on. I mean, it works all the way around the family, but then the son, the teenager son, saying to the father what he loved, admired, and respected. There were the three things uh love, respect, and admire. And it's so powerful. So it really built a bridge, whereas there'd been a war between them. So then they were building these bridges, which I thought was fantastic. So anything like that, if you want to try something like that, it's very powerful.

Katie South:

And around respect is actually the theme of the next question. So, how can stepparents help the stepchild know that they're not trying to steal their parent, but actually, you do still have to respect the step parent.

Sue Atkins:

Talk about it, talk about relationships, talk about that. Don't let don't people don't sort of talk to kids, they think they're gonna catch the uh atmosphere or catch the moment you want to pass on or the value. You have to talk about it, you set it up in your head, um, to even at small moments, and of course, there's never one big conversation uh about sex or step parenting or you know, drugs. You never have one big conversation, you have lots of little ones. So the same thing comes when you're talking like that. You have lots of little conversations and raise the topic of it. You have these regular little conversations where you're passing on stuff, but not all in one go.

Katie South:

Yeah, and the idea of having the little and often, almost, I was thinking while you were talking, underlines so much of what we're talking about, how to improve things in your stepfamily life, how to improve that relationship with your child. You know, you spoke earlier about find a little hobby that you both enjoy, or find something that you both enjoy together. And I know, you know, I remember my elder stepdaughter when she was younger, um, and we were both finding things hard. I think that's fair to say. Um, I felt quite anxious a lot of the time. And I worked out that if I went outside and did gardening, it just sort of calmed me down a bit. And I was just, you know, and then they could have time with their dad, and I was off doing something that was good for me. And she would come out and kind of be like, Oh, can I help you? And just that, yes, you know, and we would sit and plant some plants together and have a little chat about school, but it was nothing heavy. Um so that little and often thing, I think, so so important.

Sue Atkins:

Um doing other things rather than the big conversation, looking at each other, you know, all that let's have a heavy conversation. No, let's just plant some seeds or something and we're chatting. Let's just drive and oh yeah, that's interesting, but I'm not looking at you too intensely and embarrassing you, certainly as you're a teenager. So, yeah, just you know, go with the moments, and sometimes they become quite magical when you didn't even think they were.

Katie South:

Yeah, that's so true. And that's when you get those moments where you just think this is why I'm doing it, you know, this is why you're you met this wonderful, wonderful man, and in most cases you did not see what was coming, you did not know what you were getting into. And it's so hard. So when when you find those moments, kind of hang on to them. And I absolutely loved what you said earlier about just be a little bit better than you were last week.

Sue Atkins:

Yeah, so we're only doing our best, and and you know, none of us have done it before, really. So, you know, just just that's what I like about it though. Just be a little bit better than you were last week and be mindful and don't beat yourself up if you have a bad day.

Katie South:

We all do. My own mum said to me once when I was kind of stressing out about not being a good parent or a good step parent, and she just said to me, There's no such thing as a perfect parent, but there's a million ways to be a good one.

Sue Atkins:

There you go. I say something similar. There's a poster that goes around that. There's no such thing as a perfect parent, just be a real one. Yeah. So, you know, that's all you can be, and do your best. And if you get it wrong, okay, I got it wrong. And sometimes say that. I'm really sorry, I got that wrong. I shouldn't have said that. And you know, forgiveness and your your role modeling when you make mistakes, how to make it better. There's all sorts of things you're learning from raising the kids as well. And as my dad said to me once, and I was astounded by this, because I thought my dad knew everything. He said, But so I've never done this before.

Katie South:

Yeah, yeah. So true. And that, like that permission to fail, you know, as as thank God society has moved on and accept that mothers make mistakes, but I do still feel that in the main, we're not there with accepting stepmums making mistakes. It does feel like a kind of harsher punishment from society and also a harsher judgment, possibly, you know, for all sorts of reasons, which I'm sure we could explain.

Sue Atkins:

Yeah, but that's why this podcast is really valuable, then, isn't it? Um, because it's it's getting rid of those myths and trying to make a small change. Because it just takes time to make change. And by doing this kind of stuff, that's making the change.

Katie South:

It is just about, like you say, like having that space to go. Do you know what? We're all human. Sometimes we make massive muck-ups, sometimes we do things pretty well. That's okay. Learn from it, move on. Being human, it's just cool being human, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. Well, let's see. Thank you so much for your time today. I've loved chatting to you. It's the time's just flown. So really appreciate your time, and thank you so much for all that you have thought. Thank you for having me.

Sue Atkins:

It was a pleasure chatting to you for talk all day, actually.

Katie South:

I know. Wasn't Sue brilliant! I loved all her tips and wisdom, and from personal experience, I can confirm that the Sleep Fairy works like a charm. It took four nights and four little gifts from Pamland, and we were done. Sleep Fairy headed to my friend's house to see her daughter, and my husband and I now sleep in peace for the most part. Absolutely game-changing. So, Sue, a personal thank you from me. Thank you also to all of you who have reviewed the podcast and shared it on your socials. I really, really do appreciate all the social media shares, and to those of you who rate and review and tell all your friends or spread the word about Stepmum's face, it means the absolute world to me. And it means the world to those women who find us and realise that everything they feel is normal. So if you haven't already, then please do rate or review the podcast wherever you're listening, and don't forget to spread the word by sharing on your socials. If you're in need of some support yourself, please do take a look at the one-to-one coaching packages or sign up to one of our workshops at stepmumspace.com where you'll also get to meet other women in the same boat. This is the last episode in season four, so to keep up to date with everything that's going on at Stepmum SpaceHQ, do subscribe on the website or follow us on the socials at Stepmum Space. We'll be back in a few weeks with season five, so hit subscribe on your podcast app to be notified when the new season launches. Till then, an enormous thank you from me. Your support means the absolute world, and I am so so grateful to each and every one of you who contributes to making the Stepmum Space the community it is. Sending you lots of love and see you in a few weeks. Bye for now.

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Katie South

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