Episode 35: “Why Was She Good Enough to Marry… But I’m Not?”

Support, tools & coaching for stepmums: https://stepmumspace.com

Trigger warning: This episode contains discussion of serious illness and baby loss.

In this deeply emotional conversation, Katie speaks with Elizabeth, a 25-year-old stepmum of two young boys, about the complexities, heartbreak and hope woven through her stepmum journey so far.

Elizabeth shares how hard it feels to have so much of her present and future shaped by decisions her partner made long before she arrived. She speaks honestly about the pain of wanting to build a future — marriage, milestones, stability — while her partner’s previous marriage has left him hesitant to take those steps again.

She also opens up about:

• feeling stuck while life feels “on hold”
• wanting more time with her stepsons, but being limited by a schedule their mum won’t change
• the emotional toll of her partner not wanting to go to court
• worrying about the care her stepsons receive in the other home
• navigating big emotions as a young stepmum
• how her love for the boys has grown and deepened over time

This is a tender, courageous episode for any stepmum who has ever felt insecure, unheard, or unsure how to move forward when the past still shapes the present.

If You Need Support
Book a free intro coaching call: https://stepmumspace.com/booking

Find workshops, tools & resources: https://stepmumspace.com

Instagram: @stepmumspace

Keywords: struggling stepmum, partner won’t remarry, stepmum feeling stuck, baby loss as a stepmum, young stepmum support, blended family challenges, stepmum resentment, stepmum insecurity, want more contact with stepchildren, co-parenting schedule issues, stepmum podcast

You deserve clarity, compassion and a future that includes you — and you’re not alone.

Transcript

Katie South: 0:01

Hello, I'm Katie and this is Stepmum Space, the judgment free zone where we talk candidly about the fairy tales and scary tales of Stepmum life. So whether you've been a Stepmum for years, you're just starting out, or you want to understand the Stepmum in your life a little bit better, this is the place for you. Hello everybody, I hope you have all been able to enjoy the recent bank holiday weekends and things haven't been too stressful in your families. I know sometimes even just adding an extra day on to a normal weekend can really upset the balance when you're in a difficult time. So been thinking about your loads. The last couple of weeks here at Stepmum SpaceHQ have been very busy and I've had the privilege of working with so many men and women in one-to-one coaching sessions. I'm getting very booked up now, so if you do want to schedule anything in this side of the summer holidays, please make sure you get in touch today. Now my guest today is Elizabeth. Elizabeth is a stepmum to two young boys, and in this episode, she shares the story of going from a single master's student to a cohabiting stepmum of two boys in the short space of just three years. Elizabeth shares the joy the boys have brought to her life, but also her concerns that being a stepmum might mean she can't create the type of family she's always hoped for. She also openly shares her worry about how her partner's ex has impacted his view of marriage. Before we get into this chat, just to note that there are some conversations around serious illness and baby loss. Welcome Elizabeth to the show. How are you doing today?

Elizabeth: 1:43

Yeah, not too bad. Not too bad. It's a bit drizzly outside, but I've got coffee.

Katie South: 1:47

Yeah, exactly. Got caffeine, we're good to go. I've actually got water, um, but I have had about three cups of tea this morning, so I'll be alright. Um so Elizabeth, tell us a little bit about you.

Elizabeth: 1:59

So I'm uh 25. I live in the north of England. I'm originally from uh a European country. My parents live in Belgium, but I've moved here for university and stayed. I live with my partner, and he has two lovely little boys who we see meant to be every other weekend, but we've been getting them a lot more recently, which is nice, and we'll keep trying to get them a bit more.

Katie South: 2:20

Nice. And how long have you guys been together?

Elizabeth: 2:23

Uh we've been together just over three years. So we met, uh, we're both in the Army Reserve, so what used to be the TA. So we met through that and then sort of after a few months started dating. And unfortunately, things had to get quite serious quite quick with uh the COVID pandemic. I did move in quite quickly, and then with us having the children, it kind of I think forged the relationship a bit faster than we necessarily would have chosen to do. But it seems to have worked well. We're still together.

Katie South: 2:53

You're still smiling.

unknown: 2:54

Yes.

Katie South: 2:55

It's funny, isn't it? I think COVID kind of fast-tracked a lot of relationships. It was like make or break, wasn't it?

Elizabeth: 3:01

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Katie South: 3:03

If you can live through lockdown with someone happily, you can live through uh most things.

Elizabeth: 3:08

Well, yeah, I think we've lived sort of a few different lives in the last few years because when we started lockdown, we were both um at university. I was doing a master's and he was retraining for a different career. So it was quite nice, quite easy. We were doing university from home, but we both uh volunteered throughout the pandemic with the with the reserve. So we were getting out and about, and you know, we had the children, and it felt quite nice and quite easy in a way. And then now we're both in full-time careers. I'm working 50 hours this week, including working the weekend. He's yeah, works sort of Monday to Friday, and then we have the reserves on top of that. So it's just got really, really busy all of a sudden. So it feels like we live sort of different lifetimes, but all within three years.

Katie South: 3:52

It's that's a lot, isn't it? So, Elizabeth, take me back three years. You meet this guy. What happens next?

Elizabeth: 4:00

So I um had recently, very, very recently come out of a three-year-long relationship. He, I think he'd been separated for 18 months, there were thereabouts. There'd been a bit of sort of trying to make things work, but that didn't really work. Um, so initially we both just wanted to take it really slow. And it was just, you know, we'll just see each other, have some meals, you know, drink some wine or some cocktails, like just take it really slow and just just have a good time. And then yeah, like I like I said, COVID hit and it was like, oh my god, now we live together and we've got two children. So yeah, it was just quite quick. And I don't know if we didn't really discuss sort of what our plans were, we didn't really discuss like what our expectations were of each other in relation to the relationship, the children, that kind of thing. So that was quite difficult because it sort of fell into place. And then after a while of naturally taking on certain roles, I felt a bit overwhelmed. I'm quite a maternal person, I think I've got quite a strong maternal instinct. So I quite naturally started taking on a maternal role with the children and you know, looking after them, and they would come to me when they cried and that kind of thing. And then all of a sudden, I was like, I'm actually really, really overwhelmed with this. And I don't like we've not actually talked about whether he was expecting this of me or whether I've just taken the role on, and and then that was quite difficult. And talking about it, I think was quite difficult as well because we both get quite defensive. So I think in that way, the way that we started sort of with very slow with no expectations, and then got fast-tracked with COVID, it meant that we didn't really have the discussions around what we expect of our relationship and the children. But you know, we did end up, we did talk about it and we have made it work and we've kind of fallen into uh a comfortable pattern, I'd say, at the moment.

Katie South: 5:50

And it's so common that that happens that you kind of end up in a situation where you you both just fall into your roles. And I think I have quite a strong belief that as women we tend to give more of ourselves than we possibly should. And I see it time and time again with women I work with who've kind of gone in either because they love kids and they want to, or because they're pushing against that wicked stepmother narrative and they want to kind of overcompensate. And then suddenly they end up in a situation where they're like, Well, hang on, shit, I'm massively overwhelmed. I'm doing way more than my fair share, you're their dad. And then suddenly kind of trying to unpick that and get out of that can be really difficult. So, one of the things I would always encourage all stepmums to do is to get really clear with your partner at that point when it becomes serious of like, what are you willing to give? And what do they expect? And do those things match up? And if they don't, can you make them match up? But it's so important for you to be in a place where actually you're comfortable giving what you're giving and you've got enough back for yourself.

Elizabeth: 6:52

Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I I just kind of quite naturally took on the mothering role. But then there was that guilt as well. So it there was the feeling of whenever we have the children, like I want to be there with them like 100% of the time, because we don't have them all that often. So I want to be there all the time. But then, you know, when I work weekends or I've got friends who, you know, want to meet up with friends, and I feel so guilty when I take time away from the children, which is an awful feeling because you know, I deserve to live my life as well. Yes, I chose to have the children in my life, but they they they've got a mother and they've got a father, and I'm sort of an extra bonus. But yeah, so it's kind of managing, I think, all of those feelings and expectations, which is quite difficult. And I don't have, well, I don't know many people in my position. Um, and especially as you know, I was kind of taking on the bulk of the step-mumming role during COVID, there wasn't really that many people to talk to. Um, a lot of my friends were still, you know, at university or just starting out in their careers and they didn't have children, let alone stepchildren. So that was quite lonely. But recently, through my career, you know, obviously meet a lot of different people and I've met quite a lot of people in the job who have got stepkids, but you know, male, male or female co-workers that have got stepkids of varying ages. So that's been quite nice to share and talk about.

Katie South: 8:07

Yeah, because those feelings of guilt that you talk about are so common. And, you know, I think even as biological mothers, we feel guilty when we choose to take time away from our children. But when you add in the extra layer of stepmum complexity, there's all that overthinking of, okay, are the kids going to think I don't love them? Is my partner gonna think I'm not committed? You know, all of those things, which is so difficult to navigate. So I am pleased to hear that you're taking some time back for yourself. That's super important.

Elizabeth: 8:36

Yeah, yeah, I'm trying. Um, yesterday was very busy, so I'm it was my natural days off uh yesterday and today. So I'm working Monday, Tuesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, 10 hour days this week. But then it happened to be strike days. So my partner is a teacher, so he had those days off. And then the youngest stepson, so the five-year-old was in school, but the eight-year-old wasn't in school. So um, and I've completely forgotten this, but we'd volunteered to have uh the eldest. So on Tuesday, I was thinking, oh, you know, we could go for a day out and where should we go? Like go some, you know, local national trust place and go to the pub. And then I got home and he went, Oh, yes, so I'm I'm picking the eldest up from school tomorrow when his little brother gets dropped off. And I went, oh. And then he'd planned, you know, because the little one was in school, he said, Well, we we should plan some sort of almost homeschooling. So we got home and we did have to go shopping. So I organized the shopping list and we went shopping, and then um he did some maths and some English, but then got a phone call in the middle of doing the English, so I ended up taking over. By this point, I'd already like cleaned the house, done the washing up, put the washing away, sorted all the clothes because it's my one day off to get the house sorted. So I was doing all of that, then he took a phone call, so I had to take over with the English homework, and then I made lunch for us all, and then after lunch, we did a like wanted to do a bit of photography, kind of world investigation stuff. And because I'm from Belgium, we were like, right, well, let's make a PowerPoint about Belgium. So uh I sat down and and my partner went off and did something else, God knows what he was doing. And it took about two hours to do that, and then we went into PE because the little one had to run around. So I did a bit of PE with Joe, you know, the Joe Wix YouTube.

Katie South: 10:11

Yeah.

Elizabeth: 10:12

So I did all of that, and then we ended up finishing at half three. And I needed a shower after PE with Joe. It was it was tough. So I went looking for my partner to say, you know, can you sit, can you entertain the eldest whilst I go and have a shower? And he was like, Yeah, yeah, I'm just doing something, but I'll be there in a second. So I went up and had a shower and I came back down and he was still just doing his whatever he was doing. You know, this is meant to be my day off.

Katie South: 10:36

Yeah, quite. This is your partner's day off, and your partner's actually a teacher, so he could be doing some of these things with his son.

Elizabeth: 10:43

Yeah, and I think he just he gets quite overwhelmed, and when he gets a bit overwhelmed, he just sort of shuts down and he can't. I think whereas I sort of keep going, even if it's difficult and I'll take the mental load, and I've always got in the back of my mind like what he's doing in that house, that you know, the the washing up, the washing the kids' clothes of this, that that makes sure uniform's ready. He sort of struggles with all the extra uh thinking to do.

Katie South: 11:05

Yeah, and I hear you, I really, really do. But I I I really I mean this is a bigger issue than just stepfamilies, but as women, we take all that stuff on, like we take all that mental load on, and I wonder at what cost it is to our own mental health. We haven't talked about the boy's mum, so what's the situation with her?

Elizabeth: 11:30

So she lives about 30 minutes north of where we are, and the boys live well, I suppose full-time with her. Uh, we get the the kind of unofficial agreement is we have them every other weekend, and then all of half terms and half the holidays. We try to get them more wherever we can. So the boy's mum is uh quite seriously ill at the moment. She's on sort of daily treatment, and then she's also pregnant, so I think she's six or seven months pregnant, which when when you look at the illness that she's got, is only a 50% survival rate for her and and the baby. But you know, she seems to be healthy at the moment, things seem to be going well, but she just doesn't, as far as we're aware, she doesn't really care for the children as much as I think she should. You know, they don't brush their teeth when they're with her. They do eat, but it's just quite basic, you know, packet stuff. They don't do any of their reading, they barely do their homework. And we get comments. So a few weekends ago, the little one was very upset throughout the whole weekend, just sort of crying at, you know, the littlest things. And when I spoke to him about it, he just said, Well, no one plays with me at mommy's house. And he just said, I'm very lonely inside. So there's there's the frustration that obviously, you know, she she does care for them in a way, but I just feel like she doesn't care for them as much as a normal human being should. Um, and so when we've kind of talked about having them more, she then just goes, she gets very angry and says that we're judging her parenting and won't entertain the conversation of us having the children more. And I'm not trying to take them away from her at all. You know, I don't want to say that she doesn't deserve to see them or anything, but I just think if maybe it was 50-50, we'd be able to sort of fill in the gaps that she's possibly missing at home, you know, whether it's because of her illness or the pregnancy or whatever reason it is that she's not brushing their teeth, doing their reading, you know, doing all of that. But it's just not a conversation that she'll entertain at the minute.

Katie South: 13:21

That's so hard for those kids because we're not talking about, you know, a parent who's not enrolling them at Spanish lessons on a Saturday. We're talking about brushing their teeth, which is basic, basic level one looking after a child.

Elizabeth: 13:36

Yeah. But then I so I work in um public services and I deal quite a lot with neglect and children's neglect. And unfortunately, you know, what we're experiencing is nothing that social services or anyone else would get involved in because their basic needs are met. There's not really all that much we can do apart from going through court, but then that feels like that would be, you know, it's bringing an official capacity into the relationship. And it was a very bad breakup and divorce for my partner and his ex. Um, and they're just getting to a point where they can just about talk and just about come up with plans and make agreements that are not to annoy each other but are actually to benefit the children. So I think my partner's not really wanting to involve the courts because I think he thinks that it would just be sort of two steps back and it would make the whole relationship difficult again.

Katie South: 14:24

It must be hard for him to have kind of that triangle going on of his ex you guys and the boys.

Elizabeth: 14:34

I think it is. I mean, his his parents are really supportive, which is really useful, uh, really helpful. I get on well with his parents as well. But I think sometimes he does feel like he's kind of stuck in the middle. So on the one hand, there's me and his parents going, you know, you need to talk to her, you need to talk to her, you need to say that it's not all right, or you need to say that we want the boys more, you know, you need to keep pushing this home. And then on the other hand, he's got uh, you know, not answering to his WhatsApp messages or or pushing back, you know, every little thing he says. She's just like, no, no, no. And I think he feels like he's kind of stuck in the middle and you know, between two fighting factions. But we can't go directly to the boy's mother, like, I've got no relationship with her whatsoever. He's the only one that speaks to her. So I think that is difficult for him, and it does put a bit of pressure on our relationship because there are things that affect me, you know, like the holidays, when when we have the boys during the holidays, that kind of thing, but that I don't really have a choice in, I don't really have a say in, you know, because if she texts back and says, no, you're not having the boys for those two weeks in July, well, that's it. You know, I've already booked my annual leave, I can't change it, and that means that I can't have them. So I find I think we both find that quite difficult. It's something we're still navigating, is the best way to communicate around that.

Katie South: 15:46

Yeah, I mean it's really difficult, isn't it? It I guess because she's not well, you've got this other layer added on top, which brings a whole load more complexity with it. Do you mind me asking, is the illness recent or was it something that was ongoing when your partner was with her?

Elizabeth: 16:03

Yeah, so she's always been quite ill, I think. He doesn't really like to talk about their past relationship. But I know that she had a sh, you know, like they'd all gone skiing together, which obviously is quite an expensive holiday, and she wasn't able to ski because um of her illness. And a lot of it is linked to diet and you know, making diet changes, which I don't think she's done. And that's meant that the illness has then got worse. So although it was, you know, there when they were together, it wasn't that bad, but possibly natural progression, but also possibly sort of certain life choices means that now it is really quite dire. So she's yeah, she's waiting for a transplant. She's on the transplant list.

Katie South: 16:38

That's a lot, isn't it? And thinking about kind of how the kids are experiencing life in their home, how much is related to her illness and how much is just who she is, do you think?

Elizabeth: 16:51

I don't know. I mean, my partner likes to say that she was always very lazy and she always just relied on her parents. She's from she's got quite rich parents who spoil her quite a lot when she was young. So he says, Oh, she's just a spoiled brat, and you know, that's what his parents say as well. But when there's been a negative breakdown, you know, you don't know how much of it is true and how much of it is sort of their perception of it.

Katie South: 17:12

Yeah, I think that's the important thing to remember, Elizabeth. And it's interesting. We had when we had a bio mum on the show a few weeks ago, and she was kind of sharing her side of the story, and she's like, I have no idea what he's told his new partner, though. You know, we only ever hear things from one perspective, don't we? You mentioned that you don't have a relationship with her. Has it always been that way?

Elizabeth: 18:41

Yeah, I mean, even my partner has very little to do with her if he can avoid it. They mainly talk via WhatsApp messages so that they've always got the proof of what they've said. Because in the early days, I do think she used to change what you know, they'd agree, oh, I'll pick the boys up on Saturday, and then he'd turn up on Saturday and they wouldn't be there. And she'd say, Well, actually, no, we said on the phone it would be Sunday, and they had no proof of this. So he's quite precise and he makes sure that everything's done via WhatsApp. If we do drop-offs at home or pickups at home, it's very much just the boys go in and the door's closed, and that's it. There's there's no conversation between the two of them. I've met her briefly a couple of times if we've been picking the boys up from like a sports club or um there was a cavil concert at Christmas time, uh, and we were there and we basically just kind of said hello and and that was it. You know, I mean, obviously I know of her through the children, and they she will know about me through through them. But we've never probably met, we've never probably spoken, and and that's the way it is. I think I think it would be nice to have a better relationship with her. I think as a stepmum, it would be nice to you know be able to talk to the biomum and and do what's best in the best interest of the kids and help each other out, and everything would be quite friendly and informal. But obviously, the reason that there's a stepmum on the scene is usually because the relationship is broken down. And so I think that's something that a lot of stepmums don't achieve because there's so much previous in the relationship and all sort of that negative stuff that's gone on.

Katie South: 20:04

And have you any idea how she feels about you?

Elizabeth: 20:08

No, no idea whatsoever. She doesn't seem to be feeding anything negative to the children, which is good, you know, they don't say anything to us, but they're both very, very smart boys. So I don't know how much they're sort of hiding and kind of having two different lives. I do know that when they're here, you know, they're perfect, they're they're wonderful little boys. I mean, obviously they, you know, have their own um difficulties, as all little boys do, but they are absolutely fantastic. They're so smart, they're really kind, you know, really, really friendly, and we get on so well. And from a very, very young age, my partner set quite solid boundaries. So they know that having a tantrum won't get them anywhere, you know, they know that bedtime is bedtime. And and he it took quite a lot of work to set those boundaries, but now it just makes life easy because we all know where we stand. And they've openly said to us, you know, at daddy's house we go to bed when we go to bed, but at mommy's house we cry and then we can stay up later. So they do know that they can act differently in both houses. So I don't know, you know, if she does say anything and they just decide not to repeat it.

Katie South: 21:10

But you might find that showed up in one way or another. And if you've got the little one kind of saying to me, you know, I I feel lonely inside at Mummy's house, which is it's really sad, isn't it? You know, obviously poor physical health can prevent you from being the parent you want to be. There'll be lots of people who'll identify with that. But I think when you've got an opportunity to have more support from people that your kids feel safe with and love, and it's actually their dad. I find it difficult to understand why she wouldn't want to take you up on that. Have you any idea why? I think it's a control thing.

Elizabeth: 21:46

I think she doesn't want to give in to him. For example, you know, something that makes me think that it's control is so he wanted to set up a new savings account for the children, which in my mind is a positive thing. And so he needed the children's passports for the bank. So he asked her if she could scan over the passports, and she said, I won't unless you tell me why. So he said, Well, I want to set up a new savings account for them. She said, Well, you can only have the passports if you tell me exactly which bank it is, how much you'll be paying in, what a savings account it is, and all the details, like the account number and everything. And he said, Well, no, you know, you don't you don't need to know that I'm their dad, I can set up an account for them. You know, it's it's for their good in the long term, because it means that when they're 18, they'll have access to all this money. Please just give me their passports. So I think that's a side of her that I've seen that it is quite controlling. She just doesn't want to let go of the control, she wants to be seen as the dominant parent. So possibly that's why she doesn't want to reach out and have us, you know, have the children more and help her. And she'd rather reach out to her boyfriend or her boyfriend's parents or her parents.

Katie South: 22:48

Yeah, I was gonna say actually, so she's pregnant and is there a partner that she's living with?

Elizabeth: 22:54

Yeah, yeah. So they've been together a bit longer than we've been together, I think.

Katie South: 22:58

Okay, and what's the boy's relationship like with him? They sort of coexist.

Elizabeth: 23:03

Um, I don't, you know, that they like him enough, they complain about him sometimes. I think he doesn't make as much of an effort as as I do, possibly on the emotional side, but that could be a gender-based thing. You know, we've already talked about women take on a lot more. It seems that he does a lot of the day-to-day doing. So, you know, he'll take them to school, he'll pick them up from school, he'll cook their dinner. Sometimes he puts them to bed. So it seems that he does take on the majority of the parenting, but they have said, you know, like he doesn't play with us, or we wanted to play with his toys because he's got lots of like Pokemon and Xbox and that kind of thing. And oh, he won't let us play with those.

Katie South: 23:41

I always find it slightly amusing, and I shouldn't judge, but when like grown-ups have like Pokemon toys.

unknown: 23:47

I know.

Katie South: 23:48

I'm like, oh well, grown, grown man, come on. But anyway, each to their own, and I and I shouldn't judge. So sorry if you're anyone's listening and your husband's a Pokemon fan. So this guy, so it sounds like without him, you know, nothing would happen. So great that he's there, but also like these are still, and I can't get the thought out of my head of like the kids don't brush their teeth. It's because especially actually at eight and five, they should be brushing them teeth, brushing, they should be brushing their teeth themselves. And I know, you know, my five and six year old brush them teeth. Oh, geez, what's wrong with me? My five and six year old brush their teeth by themselves for the most part, but I do have to stand there and supervise and I do have to remind them. So I'm not suggesting that kids of that age would be like, oh, I haven't brushed my teeth today, I must go off and do it. But it's unusual perhaps that they haven't been taught how to do that.

Elizabeth: 24:43

Yeah, so obviously with us, they do, you know, we've got a quite strict bedtime routine. We'll always let the boys know um in advance, you know, what time we're going up to bed, usually seven o'clock. Um, and then once we've finished dinner, they've got you know as much time until seven o'clock to play. And then we'll go upstairs, they'll put their pajamas on. Well, if it's bath time, we'll you know have a bath or a shower, put their pajamas on, brush teeth, and then it's into bed. One of us will read them a story, and then they'll have however much time is left until eight o'clock to read their own books. And that's the routine that we follow all the time. Sometimes we'll have, you know, a movie night, and so we might do bath pajamas, then movie night, and then toothbrush, whatever. But you know, we always follow that routine and they're used to it. And you know, whilst they're putting their pajamas on, I'll get their toothbrush onto their toothpaste, their toothpaste onto their toothbrush and just leave it on the sink and and they'll naturally go through and do it. So they do know how to do it, but I think you know, brushing your teeth is a chore when you're a child, it's not fun. So if they can get away with not doing it, they won't do it.

Katie South: 25:42

Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting because we do talk a lot about whether it's appropriate for kids to have different rules in different houses. And I think what you've just said earlier about well, we know at mums we can cry, and then we'll get to stay up late. Yeah, and I see it with my daughter, she'll just turn on the tears, she's only five, but she'll be like, This morning she was crying because I wouldn't let her have sweeties before school. And I was like, You're not having sweeties for breakfast. And she's like, But I've had my breakfast, I just want them as an extra. And I'm like, No, like just no. And then and then she kind of gives up on the whinging because she's like, Oh, it's just not gonna work.

Elizabeth: 26:17

Yeah, yeah. Whereas I think that's the tactics that their mum uses, and therefore they use it, and her parents would give into it, so therefore she gives into it. And that's something that my partner's parents have talked about as well. So this is something that I found quite interesting. They, my partner's parents are lovely people, you know. I get on really, really well with them. They've lived very interesting lives, and we've got a lot to talk about. And they said that the the boy's mum, you know, wouldn't come and see them, she'd try and restrict my partner from going to see them, she'd try and restrict the children from seeing their grandparents. If she did have to go, if it was only for up to an hour, she'd sit in the car, she wouldn't even go in the house.

unknown: 26:52

Wow.

Elizabeth: 26:53

If it was longer, yeah, if it was longer, she'd sit in the house, but she'd sit in like the other sitting room, she wouldn't eat with them, you know, she she just wouldn't associate with them at all because and they say, well, we saw straight through her, and we saw that she was just a bit spoiled and she wouldn't get what she wanted here. Whereas my partner gets on really well with the boy's mum's parents, and if the boys are with them, he'll go and pick them up. And he sat down once and had a bacon sandwich and a cup of tea. They took the boys skiing the other week. So obviously the boy's mum couldn't go because of her illness, but the boy still went with their grandparents, and we, you know, we WhatsApp videoed them and spoke to them in the evening, and and their granddad, so the the mum's dad had a lovely long chat with my partner asking, you know, how life was, what's going on. So, you know, I do think it's interesting that he still gets on very well with her parents, um, and they still, you know, seem to tolerate him and quite like him and still want to chat to him. Whereas obviously that relationship never grew between the mum and and my partner's parents. So possibly that does lend a bit more strength to when he tells me that she was quite difficult and she was quite spoiled. Well, when I see how the relationships worked, I can kind of believe that.

Katie South: 27:59

Yeah. How do you feel about him still being close to his ex-in-laws, would call them, wouldn't we?

Elizabeth: 28:05

I don't mind it. I mean, he's not ridiculously close, you know, they don't talk every day. It is just uh when they happen to meet, you know, they're they're polite. I respect it because like he's still being a respectful human being, you know, there's their grandparents to his children, and I think it's nice that they can continue that, you know, quite respectful relationship. So it was when I sort of first found out about that when we were first dating, I actually thought, well, actually that's quite nice because it's not just uh, oh, it was a horrible divorce and now I hate everyone. You know, it is a fact of we don't get on, but that doesn't mean that I can't get on with their grandparents.

Katie South: 28:38

And also nice for your stepsons to feel like actually they can talk about grandma and grandad, both grandmas and granddads in the house and sort of see that.

Elizabeth: 28:47

Yeah, yeah. And you know, they brush their teeth when they're with grandma and granddad. They take better care of them than the boy's mum does. So if they are spending time with their grandma and granddad, at least I know you know they're playing jigsaws, they're playing but board games, they're having their teeth brushed, they're eating vegetables, so they are being careful. Um, and at the end of the day, you know, that's that's what I want for the boys.

Katie South: 29:06

And just going back to what you said about how you and your partner would like more than every other weekend with the boys, and how she's kind of just said a flat no, like where do you go from here? Because it must be quite a worry for your partner and you to be aware of what's going on with the boys in their life, how they live it most of the time.

Elizabeth: 29:27

Yeah, I mean, I don't know how concerned he is. I think he hides his emotions quite well and won't necessarily admit to himself what he's feeling, which is a whole other topic of conversation. We get frustrated because I'm saying that we need to push, you know, like you need to keep asking her, you need to keep saying we want to have them. Maybe if we rephrase it in the we know you're ill, maybe we can help out, rather than saying you're not caring for them, we need to have them more. And but he just kind of shuts down and goes, No, you know, we've I've got to talk to in a certain way, I've got to do this, I've got to do that. So there's quite a lot of frustrations there. We are sort of slowly getting them more. So this week just gone, we had them Friday to Monday. So I picked them up from school on Friday, and then dropped them off at school on Monday before then going to work myself. And then with the strikes, so we had the eldest, we picked them up yesterday morning, had them all throughout the day overnight, dropped them off at school this morning, and then we're picking them up at school tomorrow and having them for the whole weekend. And I'm dropping off them off at school on Monday before going to work. So we would have seen them every day apart from Tuesday. But you know, that's something that is out of the ordinary because it's the strikes. And my partner sent her a message saying, you know, as I'm a teacher and I'm striking as well, would it be helpful if, rather than saying, you know, you will let me have the children? So we're kind of slowly getting there. And I know it would be a complete lifestyle change for both of us to have the children more as well. You know, we're already incredibly busy and it would just be more busy. But I kind of feel like we need to push, you know, all the time, and we need to be showing that whenever we can, we're having the children. And if she's saying no, you know, we need to kind of build up that file of evidence so that if we do go to court, we can show that. But you know, we have been trying and we do care for them and we do have them as much as possible. Whereas I think, like I said, my partner's just a bit overwhelmed at the moment and he's kind of saying all the right things and saying, like, oh yeah, I'm frustrated that she doesn't care for them, but he doesn't almost have the mental capacity to properly put up a fight. You know, and like I said, we know that they are cared for enough, you know, they get fed, they've got a roof over their heads, you know, they're sleeping in in proper beds and clean clothes, and they see the grandparents once or twice a week where they get properly cared for there. So it's not like there's immediate safeguarding concerns.

Katie South: 31:40

I think it's a bit of a long-term game. Maybe that's the best way to play it because also for you, as somebody who's got a really busy life already, perhaps it is better to just take those baby steps because you mentioned in the beginning kind of going from nothing to total overwhelm. And maybe if you suddenly did get majority care of the boys or even 50-50, it could be a bit overwhelming all in one go.

Elizabeth: 32:05

Yeah, I think so. But I think a lot for me is not being in control. Like I feel like because she's the main parent and she she gets to decide when we're allowed to have them. So that kind of dictates, you know, my life and and my weeks and my weekends and my holidays. And you know, we don't have that close relationship with the school. A lot we find out, you know, when the boys come every other weekend, we see what's left in their school bags and that kind of thing, you know, because we're not picking them up from school and dropping them off at school and seeing the teachers and finding out what's going on in school life. So I think possibly if we had them 50-50, then I would feel more involved and you know, more in control of my own life rather than it feeling like I'm waiting for their mum to say, Oh, well, actually, yes, I'll have the boys that weekend, so therefore you can go and see your parents or you know, what whatever it is.

Katie South: 32:50

I'm interested in something you said earlier, which was about, oh, my husband buries his head in the sand. Talk to us a little bit more about that because uh I don't think it's that unusual.

Elizabeth: 33:00

So he well, he's I think he's in the bath behind me, so we can probably hear, but um he's a stereotypical sort of English man, which is don't show your emotions, don't really think about things, counselling for other people, it's not for me. But I think he has been quite affected by his relationship with marriage and then the divorce with his ex-wife, and that is affecting him now. But he it's easier for him to just bury his head in the sand and keep pretending that everything's fine than to sort of take a step back and analyse what he's going through and his emotions and everyone else's emotions and sort of put in the hard work to make things better. So, you know, we've been together three, three and a half years now. We've gone through a lot together, and I'm kind of at the stage where I'm ready for marriage, and I'd like to start talking about having a child of our own. And I don't want there to be a big gap between my stepkids and and you know, any biochildren that we have, because I want us all to be, you know, a big family. I don't want it to feel like there's two older kids and then there's the younger kid, and we're not too, you know, one family. But he just says, Well, you know, we're happy as we are. Why do you feel we need to rush things? And I said, Well, because you know, I feel like I put in a lot for you and the children. And, you know, I've talked about what I did yesterday, and I love it. Like I love being with the children, but it is exhausting and it is a lot of emotional work to put in for, you know, at the end of the day, not even being sure if we're gonna be together for the rest of our lives. So I'm kind of saying, like, I've committed to you and I've committed to the children, and I want us to be a family, but he's saying, Oh, you know, there's no rush, there's no rush. And we've had a lot of conversations about it, and he has made sort of the odd comment of, well, it went wrong last time. So, how do I know it's not gonna go wrong this time? And I think he does have quite a lot of trauma from his previous relationship, but he's not ready to admit it to himself, and therefore he's not ready to make another full commitment to me. And he thinks that we're quite happy the way we are, whereas I want a bit more extra commitment because I'm putting up with so much, you know. With if we didn't have his ex-wife and the children, there's a natural progression of, oh, you know, we like each other, we move in together, we decide to get married, we then have children. And when things are difficult in a parenting life, you can still think, well, we made the decision to get married and have children together. And yet we go through the difficulties now, and I can't fall back on that. Well, you know what, he does love me at the end of the day because he has made the decision to commit to me and have children with me. So, you know, hopefully it's things that I need to work on as well. But it's yeah, I think difficulties that having stepkids and previous relationships that are still involved in our current lives brings to a relationship when relationships are already difficult.

Katie South: 35:35

God, I identify so much with what you're saying. I think there are a lot of women who I work with who will almost be dealing with the impact of the ex's treatment of their husband. And again, like you know, we don't want to fall into the role of picking up the pieces and trying to fix this person. That's on them to do, but it is really difficult when you can see that, and obviously there's children involved, so it's not as easy as saying, you know, let's take a step back for a few months while you do what work you need to do, because it doesn't work like that when there's already kids in the picture. Sounds tough, yeah.

Elizabeth: 36:18

And it is, you know, we'll have the discussions, and because we're both very defensive, often turn into arguments, which isn't particularly helpful at all, you know, and we'll agree and I'll say, right, well, can we do some sort of couples counselling or something like that just so that we can speak in a more productive manner? But then we just fall straight back into the normal lifestyle of you know, being busy and we've got work, we've got the kids and we've got the reserves, and we never put the time in to actually focus on us and take the time to have the time to be relaxed and think of our emotions and and work on it and go from where we want to go. Yeah, I think it is just very easy to fall into normal lifestyle patterns, but then every other, you know, every few months, the kind of feelings like they bubble away, and then it all becomes too much, and then we have the same argument again, and then it all quietens down, we kind of go back to normal for a few months, and and it's just a cycle that is never ending. But it's so difficult to find that extra time and the extra effort and the extra sort of emotional effort to actually you know do something with it.

Katie South: 37:17

Yeah, and once once you're in that cycle, it's so difficult to get out. Yeah, definitely.

Elizabeth: 37:22

And I think we kind of touched on this at the beginning, but when you were saying they're caring for everyone else, like I felt I had to prove that I was good enough. And I felt I had to show to him that I was good enough to be stepmum to his kids, and I had to, you know, get on really, really well with the kids because I wanted them to want me around. And I felt like I had to prove to his family, you know, his parents are very protective of him and the kids because of what they've been through. So I felt like I had to prove to them that I was good enough, and I just kept like trying and doing more and more and more and more, and it gets to the point where you just can't keep giving anymore. Um but then I say to him, like, why aren't I good enough? You know, like obviously your ex-wife was good enough, she was good enough for you to marry her and you to have children with her. Well, why aren't I good enough for that? And he says, Well, it's not about that, it's about the fact that, oh, you know, I'm worried about getting married again. But all I can think about is, well, I'm not good enough to be given what he gave to his ex-wife. And I know that that's not necessarily how it works. And, you know, when I sit like this and and talk about it, it kind of sounds a bit silly, but you can't help your feelings, can you?

Katie South: 38:22

Yeah, and it doesn't sound silly at all. It's like a really common belief for somebody to feel like actually I'm not good enough. And in coaching, I work with women on those beliefs and on those stories that they've constructed for themselves and told themselves, and we kind of unpick them to get back to clarity about okay, well, what's actually going on? Not not what's the story that we've told ourselves about what's going on, because it won't be that you're not good enough. It's a totally valid feeling that you've got, but it is a a story that you've told to yourself based on all these things that you believe, which is not always the only version of events.

Elizabeth: 39:02

Yeah, yeah. I do. Um I am a massive overthinker, you know, like I'm already overthinking the future. So I'd love to have a child of my own. I always wanted to have two quite close in age, but having four children is ridiculous. So we'll have the two, you know, my two stepsons, and then I'd like one more child. But I have um polycystic ovary syndrome, um, which can obviously affect fertility. So I'm kind of I'm already worrying about, you know, well, what if it takes us, you know, ages to conceive, or what you know, we struggle to conceive, and what if I need to go through IVF and that takes a lot longer. And so even from the date that we start trying, it might be years until we have a child. So then there'll be a big gap between the children. And then, you know, I worry about things like, well, what if I want to go and take my child to see my parents, you know, which is aboard, it's it's not easy to get, they're not you know, miles away, but it's not easy to get there. I wouldn't want to go with just my biochild because the stepsons love going, they love my family and they love going to Belgium. But then I think, well, I can't just be waiting on them and only doing things with them when I have my own child. But we're not in that situation yet. And I'm sure that when we are, it will all work out. But I can't help but sort of overthink it all. And it makes me panic now when it's something that actually isn't relevant at you know, this point in time.

Katie South: 40:13

If you're open to it, I'm gonna send you something after our conversation, um, which is an exercise I use with women, which might might be helpful. That overthinking is so common, and I definitely am a recovering overthinker. Um, it's exhausting.

Elizabeth: 40:29

It is, yeah, yeah. But I am very lucky, you know, that my family gets on so well with the kids. I think I was quite worried about what their take would be on it. Um, so my partner's 10 years older than me, and I remember when I first told my dad he was a bit like, oh, oh, I'm not sure about that. And because it was COVID at first, you know, no one could travel. I didn't see my parents for probably about a year or so. And so we never kind of grew that relationship with the children. You know, they don't really know where they stand because they're not grandparents, but they're sort of in that role. And you know, my brothers and my sister-in-law, well, are they aunties? Are they uncles? Like, who are they to the children? But actually, we don't need those labels, they all just get on really well, like they all just care for the kids. And it was New Year we spent together, and we did a second Christmas, and everyone had bought Christmas presents for the children, and you know, they're buying them birthday presents, and we'll randomly have little Skype calls and you know, talk about this and talk about that. And my um my brothers and my sister-in-law are coming up at Easter to come and see us and spend time with the kids, and we all get on well, and and they love the children so much.

Katie South: 41:30

That's so lovely. Like my um my husband's parents have really embraced my son from my first marriage, who's not technically their grandson, and he absolutely adores them. And but it is again like that kind of thinking about labels and what do we call them and how do we make everybody comfortable? And it is it's exhausting.

Elizabeth: 41:51

Yeah, yeah. I mean, even you know, the label for myself, you know, or for stepmums. I mean, my stepkids don't call me stepmum, they just call me by my name. But even when we go out, you know, I've had people go, Oh, and what about your mummy? And I don't think they've really reacted. And they've said to me before, you know, if if you and Daddy get married, will you be mum number two? And I've just said to them, I'll be whatever you want me to be, within reason. Um you know, I was like, you can't call me horrible names. But I said, you know, if you want to call me mum, then that's absolutely fine. If you want to just keep calling me my name, you know, if you want to refer to me as your step-mum, I said it's up to you to do what you want. But I think they're so young and they're so comfortable almost in their relationship with us that they're just not bothered.

Katie South: 42:33

Yeah, which is great. That's all you want, isn't it? What's amazing is that you're in such a great place with the boys now, and I can see that you've got lots of exciting sort of hopes and dreams for the future. What's the next step for you guys as a family?

Elizabeth: 42:49

Well, we were attempting to buy a house. So currently we live in my partner's house, uh, which is a you know a lovely three-bedrooms, uh semi-detached house. One of the bedrooms is just a box, though. So it is the office which I'm currently in. So we we essentially have two rooms. We have our room and we have the boys' room, and that means we can't ever have anyone to stay, which you know. I mean, my partner's parents live an hour away, and my parents live a long way away, across across the sea. So it'd be nice to be able to have people stay over, and we can't have that. So we were we we nearly bought a house. We got to the point where we were ready to exchange contracts, and it was a lovely sort of four-bedroom um old farmhouse. And I was sort of dreaming about us, you know, growing the family there and having a baby and having my parents being able to come over and stay, and had a lovely garden and like lots of hopes and dreams. And then unfortunately, the estate agents called us one day and said, Yeah, they're not selling anymore. Oh, that was quite difficult because it that felt like the next step in our relationship. You know, that was the big we're buying a house together. It's not going to be my partner's house that I live in, it's gonna be our house, and we're putting our money in it. And you know, it's something for the future of our family. And obviously, the feelings in our relationship didn't change. We're still wanting to do that, but it's like the fact that they've taken the physical house away means we're we're not taking those steps now, and it feels like we're going backwards, even though it's nothing that us and our relationship have changed. So we're still looking, but now's not the best time to buy a house. So there's nothing really on the market that interests us. Feels like we're in limbo again. My ideal next steps would be that we get engaged at some point and then get married and then have a baby. But like I said, you know, my partner's just not ready for it. And I say to him, Well, what is what can I do? Like, what will change to make you ready? And he said, Well, probably nothing. I don't think there is anything that can change, you know, it's just a case of me becoming more comfortable with the idea. So at the moment, we're just waiting and living our lives and seeing what happens, which is quite a difficult position to be in. But yeah, with the overthinking thing again, so I uh grew up speaking French at school, um, and all my activities and everything was in French. I always spoke English with my parents because they are English, but you know, I grew up in Belgium, so I grew up speaking French, and I'd love to just speak French to my child, and I tried to speak French to the stepkids, but you know, so because they're a bit older, it's a bit difficult for them to learn, and so I'm really worried that if I then start speaking French to my child, it will alienate the the boys. So that's something that I really don't need to worry about now. But again, you know, when I'm thinking about the future, I'm thinking about you know growing the family and like something I need to worry about.

Katie South: 45:32

One step at a time.

Elizabeth: 45:34

Yeah.

Katie South: 45:36

Yeah, I can see there's a there's a lot, it's a heavy load. It is, it is. Whatever you do, make sure you take care of yourself, put yourself on the list to look after while you're busy looking after everybody else. I think that's on the list for today. I've got a few things on my to-do list, but some of it is just blogs. Yeah, good. Well, look, thank you so much for your time, Elizabeth. It's been so nice to talk to you.

Elizabeth: 46:02

Well, thank you very much. I feel like I've had a mini counselling session then.

unknown: 46:06

It's been lovely.

Katie South: 46:08

Oh, what a compliment. Thank you, Elizabeth. I am so grateful for the courage you showed in sharing your story. If you've enjoyed this episode, please do rate, review, and subscribe. And please do spread the word on your socials about the podcast. It really, really helps. And of course, if you've got a story to share, then please get in touch through the website www.stepmumspace.com or on all the socials at Stepmom Space.